Space Merchant
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Posts posted by Space Merchant
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8 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:
So why didn't you say before that it was an obstacle for you. From now on, I will write slowly.
We both already know the second president/leader of JWs was Rutherford, who continue to lead the Bible Students. I said this, and you were given question to which you ignored. The typo pertains to JWI and I alone, as seen in the latter page, including pages 9 and 10. Even previously, the mentioned of Tulsa.
There is no question that the second leader is known, more so, in that time period, therefore your citation of from JW.org only pertains to the president-day, not the 19th century. This is the same error which the YouTuber did. Be wise not to repeat this.
That being said, at last now with that response, it shows that you indeed were back peddling from the question of which now you attest otherwise. Thank you for proving that the mentioned of Rutherford in examples 1, 2 and 3 were indeed false of which Witness deem as true. You unexpectedly walked into that one, effectively disqualifying the video.
You were not typing past, you made responses to specific responses from point to point. Evidence, page 9.
Now where did you get the notation that I called Pastor Russell or Rutherford an Elder? This is why I stated you seem to be twisting what I said. As far as I know, only @Dmitar coined this, I mentioned Pastor, Judge and Deacon.
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21 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:
Hi JWI. On page 10, SM wrote:
Example 3 [1925] - Now for example 3, it is the same reused, washed and rinsed rhetoric about Pastor Rutherford's Millions will Never Die...
I reacted with:
I’m not petty, but I’m surprised that such an informed and knowledgeable debater like you mistakenly names historical figures from the WT.
Russell was called Pastor, and Rutherford was called Judge.Then two of our esteemed colleagues joined forces and performed a whole litany on what the word judge means and what the word pastor means. And so on.
As i respond to Dmitar, i have no problem if Russell's brethren using word "elder" in communication with Russell. My quote from JW library article just showed WHY Bible Students started to call Russell with title "Pastor". *
If my grammar contribute to misunderstanding, this would be easy to resolve. But I think the two of them have other needs.
If I may say this too: I am not making this comment to you in order for you to get involved in proving this or that reality. I simply respect you for what I think of you based on previous acquaintances through forum discussions.
*PS Pastor Russell but not Judge Russell vs Judge Rutherford but not Pastor Rutherford
I never brought up the term Elder, it was in regards to Rutherford's leadership for the Bible Students. JWI is aware of that because of a typo I made from responding to numerous responses you made in a 3 min span.
That being said, it is in regards to those who is the leader of a Christian congregation who also gives advice and counsel to people from the community or congregation.
You were even told some words today are not as used anymore, hence root.
Pastor and Judges are two different things, you were already told this, as to why he is noted as someone of Law, at Judge.
I do not join forces with anyone, I am myself and by myself.
On 2/16/2022 at 12:03 PM, Space Merchant said:Pastor Rutherford (Joseph Franklin "Judge" Rutherford) was the second president (or leader) of the incorporated Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. He played a primary role in the organization and doctrinal development of Jehovah's Witnesses who came out of the Bible Student Movement (One of the movements that emerged from the Great Awakening/Revival). He only became one of Bible Students because he developed an interest in the teachings of Watch Tower Society's Pastor Russell, which led to his joining the Bible Student movement, and he was baptized in 1906. He also had a hand, using his Law Experience, for legal counsel.
The reason he was called A Judge was because he began his career in law, working as a Court Stenographer, as is with experience as a trial lawyer and prosecutor, in addition to that, he became a special judge in the 14th Judicial District of Missouri at some time after 1895.
I rather you not twist what I said.
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2 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:
@Space MerchantDon’t think I’m insulting you, but I have no other explanation given your last few comments, which are: You must have been shone with some “new light”.
Insults do not work against me because Slander is the tool of the loser. Been in debates where I was ridiculed for my race, culture, some even wanted to kill me, police sent after me, but it does not shake me. A couple of former JWs won't do much granted they use every slander move some weak debaters use to deter evidence.
That being said, I guess your new light is the Holocaust was JW affiliated only, granted, you believe the video. More so, as is your assertion which is false about equating Doctrine to the Jim Crow Laws of the Era noted in Example 1.
That being said, the examples showed proves that both you, @Witness blindly accept things without merit, as is defending a falsehood, and when exposed, you cry out with JW/WT remarks.
God and his Christ deal with those who profess truth and call out falsehoods, and use discernment. He does not take favor in those feasting a banquet at the table of demons when it benefits them.
As I told Witness, you yourself should repent, best do it now than wait to confess at the White Throne.
Both of you are heavily misguided, know you actually have time to correct yourself, to Witness, Pearl, to you, a disloyal husband who profits off of ExJWs.
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32 minutes ago, Witness said:
From the very beginning of posting the video, racism, Nazism, the Holocaust was never my "beef" from the video.
These were points from your video, in regards to Race and The Holocaust. You stated the video to be fact and true when it was coined it was misleading.
It is not about beef, it is about a true witness vs a false witness.
32 minutes ago, Witness said:That is what you gleaned from it, and that is what you have expounded upon. It is your choice!
Only brought up because you attested to the video not being false. That was your doing, as seen in the early pages.
32 minutes ago, Witness said:I don't condemn your choice of topic from the video, but the Wt.
Sadly, all 3 examples were from the video you claim as true.
32 minutes ago, Witness said:IS, and will continue to be, my focus.
If that is your focus, then why defend a former EXJW who essentially put you in this position?
32 minutes ago, Witness said:This is not hiding behind it,
You are hiding behind them because any example brought up from the video you deem to be true you make appeal to motive remarks, example You are not a JW so you would not know, or, recently, Defending the Watchtower, when in reality the examples in the video the EXJW was pressing misinformation about legitimate history.
As stated, you can disagree with the JWs/WT, but at least understand history.
32 minutes ago, Witness said:but exposing its lies by bringing them to the fore.
If that was the case, isn't all 3 examples in the video concerning the Watchtower a lie of which you press as a truth?
32 minutes ago, Witness said:I saw a different aspect of the video, a hidden lie and I commented on it.
If that was the case you would not be in this position.
No one here believes Hitler somehow targeted JWs first.
No one here believes Bible Students to be Racist, for if that was the case, JWs would most likely never existed, let alone Bible Students would expire like that of some early Christian counterparts, more so, the Tulsa events involving Bible Students would be different. Likewise with archives and domains on/off network.
32 minutes ago, Witness said:Accept it, SM.
I am not going to accept the idea that Hitler went after JWs first and the Jews came second.
32 minutes ago, Witness said:You have your agenda
If I had an Agenda, I would be re-writing the history of the Holocaust, of which you are defending, effectively putting you in subjection to being noted as a Holocaust Distorter this is Agenda driven, something which is akin to those such as Black Hebrew Israelites, who not only distort the history of the Holocaust, but push the narrative the Jews in that situation deserved it, something I refuted vs them a long time ago.
More so, I have already been censored by Agenda driven folks for a reason.
32 minutes ago, Witness said:and I have mine.
What Agenda has led you to push a falsehood as truth?
You can be better than this but because of your justifiable cause, you defend it, likewise with Srecko.
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24 minutes ago, Witness said:
So although you defend the Wt, you never became a baptized JW like I did, subjecting myself to their falsehoods. And evidence shows they have certainly re-written their own history and present a polished picture to the fresh population of JWs.
It is a conundrum to see you as a preacher (with a capital "p") defending an organization that has failed miserably at teaching truth; while on the other hand, saying you would not subject yourself to falsehoods.
You continue with appeal to motives to defend your false witness. Can you explain how Hitler went for the JWs first instead of the Jews like your video attest to.
This has nothing to do with the Watchtower's teachings or a defense.
And you hiding behind the Watchtower is not going to save you, for you did this many times when you are exposed for falsehood.
Regarding my latter remark, granted the following
On 2/15/2022 at 2:56 PM, Space Merchant said:No one is asking you to AGREE with Jehovah's Witnesses, but you have to UNDERSTAND and CRITICALLY THINK here to discern what is true and what is false.
This is related to the claim that is in line with re-writing the events of the Holocaust, as is the history in relation to Racism, very little to do with the Watchtower.
If you deem your video as TRUE, why evade this notations? After all, it has never stopped you from seeking direct responses for notations when you coin such to current JWs on this forum, even in regards to those who have little to do with you.
If there is evidence as you claim, then the above mention should not be difficult to make a response to.
The Nazis held a view of Antisemitism towards Jews, they went after to beat, rape, humiliated, and capture them, many old accounts and pictures in the public domain and archives shows this, examples below.
Historically speaking, I do not see anywhere of which JWs were the first and primary target, their history came much later when the Nazi officials got involved; appointed by Adolf Hitler. Moreover, another situation that counters your video's bias opinion is the events surrounding Minersville School District v. Gobitis.
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And so it begins, something of what many of us, from Truthers to Independent Journalist, even Preppers etc. Some in the community has traveled and or on their way to Ottawa.
Justin Trudeau (dubbed a Dictator), the one that we stated to, even called out to be a problem for years down used has invoked the Emergency Act (possibly the first time used in Canada's history) in regards to the Trucker Convoy, of which one of their own was recently arrested in an attempt to break them, moreover, although they are not the threat to Sovereignty and or the like in that regard, seems those in power seems to view them as such in order to maintain their power.
The only reason he is going down this path is because he wants to hold on to power, to remain in the club and not get kicked out permanently. One can see that Justin Trudeau is not backing down, as with his underlings because they truly do not want to be removed.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
That being said, even for Neutral persons or those that do not adhere to the issues caused by the paradigm, who are not involved in Politics, or those not in the Investor's community, such will have an indirect damning effect on the normal working person/family. Children will also be effected.
- JW Insider and admin
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@Witness So can you explain to me how on earth did Hitler go after Jehovah's Witnesses first when the history shows it was the Jews? Your video attested to the idea, even stating the Camps were primarily made for Jehovah's Witnesses and only them, so much so I quoted him.
Better yet, how did Jehovah's Witnesses exist in regards to the First Example regarding Bible Students if they were indeed influenced by Jim Crow Laws? The JW faith would have never came to fruition, if that was the case.
The below is from your video which you claim
On 2/11/2022 at 12:32 PM, Witness said:His first-hand exposure to the facts, is eye-opening.
They were not facts, in all 3 examples mentioned.
The quote reads:
From the ExJW Bethel Member [TRANSCRIPT] - [jehovah's witnesses in other words this article and the examples contained within it is meant to convey or meant to promote the idea that the nazi parties concentration camps were really just for jehovah's witnesses and that the jews and homosexuals got caught up in the mix but the real target we are the real ones under the microscope here that would be joyous witnesses that's quite something to really repaint history....]
You do not have to be a Jehovah's Witness to know what Racism and the Holocaust is.
He claims the JWs are re-writing history, but he stated otherwise which makes no sense, even with a 1930s source among the archives from their domain and elsewhere, more so, it puts Rutherford in a contradiction, if we had to go there.
To attest to an Agenda deemed false, shows there is no light that shines over you, but a darkness. This is why I told you to seek repentance, mainly when 1 John 4:1 was used to which you disrespected - it was used for a reason.
You always stated to evade False Witness, but why subject to ill Justifiable Cause when it benefits you? A Conundrum that makes no sense.
For the record, I am a Preacher. And as a Preacher, I would not subject myself to falsehood, like you, or re-write, history, as you agreed to.
The events of 1900-1939 and the Holocaust/Nazi Remine has NOTHING to do with JW/WT teachings. You'd be wise to stop these appeal to motives for it makes you look like a hypocrisy every time you do this.
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@Patiently waiting for Truth Another one (1 of many as of recent, but this one is the bigger one), perhaps the most problematic one to date, mainly during the age of the Information War and the ceasing of the culture war.
When you give those a piece of power and they seed their mantra over time, it will result in stuff like this. As we speak, various things are taking place in all institutions and communities, those who oppose, will later be a focused enemy.
There are other things taking place in regards to even that of children, but that will be a remark for another day.
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8 hours ago, Witness said:
Light from God is wisdom. It is a gift we receive through Jesus Christ, when we sincerely ask in faith.
But the Light that came of God's Wisdom should enable one to see what is false and what is true. We ask God for such wisdom, but we do not go should not be going around such wisdom with our own understanding, as with 100% believe anything that comes from someone without discernment.
8 hours ago, Witness said:Anyone who reaches this realization, and leaves the Wt. to follow Jesus Christ, has chosen to walk away from darkness, and embrace the light of Christ.
This has nothing to do with leaving the Watchtower, the problem here is the misleading issue in which, some examples of the video contradicts, as is, re-writes a history in order to seed in the notation of deception via falsehood.
This is why the claim of it being misleading is factually true. All 3 examples refuted attest to that, perhaps the most damning of them all is the citation of Tulsa, which ultimately shoots down the video's bias opinions.
8 hours ago, Witness said:"The light of the righteous will rejoice, but the lamp of the wicked will die out." Prov 13:9
This verse is only true to those who can point out falsehood and attest to what is true.
The light does not shine on those who attest to a false witness laced Agenda.
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22 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:
How my former fellow believers feel about me is their problem.
The issue is the fact you were formerly a Jehovah's Witness, yet, you lack even the basic things of your former faith. You do not even know who was the second leader of the Bible Students; for you did this here to not look foolish, but the reality is, your remarks elsewhere proves you are pushing an Agenda based lie just to save face.
- As seen here # 1
- Here # 2
- JWI even provided some information in which you interacted with him on that.
That is Hypocritical.
Everyone, both current, former, as with those who study Religion is aware that Rutherford took over for Russell - case closed.
23 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:Or you still care, given the comment you made.
It is not about care, as with I don't care at all, this it is more so as to exposed, which you walked into that remark on your own when you attested to the remark about religious leaders. You engineered this yourself. Going back to Examples 1, 2 and 3, they are alluded to Rutherford, especially Example 1 because of the events of Tulsa whereas around the time Black Wall Street was getting destroyed, as with blood running in the streets from the violence, you can see convention pictures of Rutherford in old pictures.
Example below which is near a court house, a picture of Rutherford can be seen in the background whereas their was a conflict between White and Black people taking place; events of Tulsa 1921.
Current and former JWs are aware of Pastor Rutherford's conventions, as is his lead of the Bible Students, after all, even in this forum you made remarks of the book which relates to Example 3, but here we see you are pretending to not be aware.
23 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:What is your need to find out how JW feels about me?
This has to do with you.
Your former faith, as with former members of the faith is aware of who led the Bible Students, the first being Russell. Therefore the fact you play ignorant here but elsewhere you attest to the notation shows you to be a lair, cowardice to your own claim at best.
23 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:Well, if you’re interested, please read their publications and listen to what they say about former members, so you’ll know how they feel and what they think about ex-JW. Satisfied?
Rutherford took over for the Bible Students, we all know.
I do not see why you were so afraid to say it.
23 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:I have no inferiority complex, so to think that JWs are better than other people, ex-JW or me. :))))
Technically you do.
I can pull some of your remarks about Example 3 elsewhere, as with other notations to Rutherford vs here when you claim ignorance to pretend you have no idea of who lead the Bible Students. As is you not knowing as to why your forerunner was called a Judge.
23 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:Good for you, even better for others.
Learn your history, you need it, for anyone attempting to re-write history or deny events of the Holocaust, it is problematic, as is agreeing with those who hold such an idea - hence Agenda. You make the Black Hebrew Israelites look like saints, in this regard for they attempted the same thing many times, and people like me refute them as well.
23 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:But by the way. Do you act like a "pastor" with respect to the people around you?
I am a Preacher of the Word, nothing more. As Preachers, we call out the accursed, as with falsehoods and false witnesses, which is called a Refutation. - Galatians 1:1-11. As side for that, anyone that repaints history because of an Agenda, I tend to call that out too.
That being said, it does not matter if you agree or disagree with JWs, even for the fact you were formerly one, an Ex-Deacon of the faith, but at the same time, you should not be this gullible to false witnesses and adhere to it as a truth, it not only makes you look bad, but shows the lack of thinking in regards to historical accounts. Some EXJWs usually go after Jehovah's Witnesses stating they lack critically thinking, likewise with Atheist who says this of all Christians. You should at least shed some responsibility to research anything and everything, even videos such as this, the fact you play the role of a White Knight for someone tainted in this field, only causes more harm, than good, on your part.
As stated before, the video is misleading, and the facts proved this to be the case, facts are everything.
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14 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:
Perhaps or only in your mind.
You're the former Jehovah's Witness, do not tell me suddenly your faith opponents is now above you granted as you portray them - Do you or do you not know who took over for Pastor Russell to lead the Bible Students?
You, not too long ago, pulled a source, The Watchtower associated with Jehovah's Witness, why avoid something so elementary. Even before that, majority of your posts elsewhere points to you knowing, so to speak.
Anyways, note what is in red.
Nice assumption, but as pertaining to everything I said in the past, that is unlikely. I do not lead institutions nor do I think of doing so. Now then, no need to run from what you opened the flood gates to.
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20 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:
Are you a Pastor?
Does it look like a lead a church, former Deacon, you, of Restorationism?
The fact that you asked, putting yourself in another compromising situation:
Who was Pastor Russell's Pastoral Successor to lead the Bible Students?
Granted of your previous remarks, in a debate situation, you deliberately put yourself between a rock and a hard place.
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3 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:
I have no problem with your explanation, but your JW friends have.
Actually they are aware of roots - something of which both you and Witness got corrected on, before, even by others. Why else do you think they attest to Hebrew and Greek Text, your own quotation even gave an example, which is equated to Shepperd like. as is with Churches, despite not using the rooted term, the remark is represented in their place of worship.
That being said, once again, you've been shut down, as is your deniability of events surrounding even that of the Holocaust. If we are speaking of friends, you may want to deal with the one you follow, who is now the focus of your own community for brazen conduct, for his roots did not live up.
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@Patiently waiting for Truth With all due respect, this was attested to years ago, of what Russia planned on doing, how the Kremlin, The State Duma, and the RoC operated, more so direct and indirect actions taken; they put the chess pieces on the board in advance, even regarding Ukraine, and people in Kiev. Then you have to factor in the censorship which is starting to get frustrating.
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23 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:
Let us hear how official publication explained why Russell has been called "pastor".
By Rutherford's history, he did the same thing. Both he and Russell led the Bible Students.
Unless you believe somehow Russell continue onward beyond death to still lead, which remains to be seen.
Surely you can do better than that, Srecko.
That being said, Examples 1, 2 and 3, as with other notations has been refuted with facts. You do not have any more glasses to for your water, leaving you with the only option to attest to why you consider falsehood to be true.
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@Srecko Sostar Actually the term Pastor is as rooted as their terms for Elder and Servant (Steward of which JWs call Ministerial Servants). We've been down this road before when both you and Witness' believed and tried to convince me that Christian Churches existed in Israel, let alone the idea of a woman leading the Church of Corinthians, which was false, hence Biblical Facts. As is your confusion between a Pastor and Judge. Moreover, you alluded to the leadership and or religious leaders of JWs without batting an eye.
That being said, there is no question no one but the successor of Pastor Russell led the Bible Students, that is a fact. The same leader of the Bible Students who had enough religious office to introduce the name Jehovah's witnesses in 1931.
No need to Fish Flail with that, of which you are doing. Just because JWs do not use rooted terms as much anymore does not disqualify the fact the roots still stand, i.e. Preacher, Minister, etc. which are all equated to Pastor, even in regards to high office or leadership alone or in body; holding of a church congregation, pertains also to an organized movement.
Nice try although a failed attempt to save yourself here - as predicted.
This is what happens when you are way too boxed in with falsehood, you end up in this predicament.
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58 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:
I’m not petty, but I’m surprised that such an informed and knowledgeable debater like you mistakenly names historical figures from the WT.
Russell was called Pastor, and Rutherford was called Judge.You'd focus on that, which was predictable, then your denial of Holocaust history. And now you made an even bigger fool of yourself willfully, no one did it for you but yourself. As predicted to because in the facts of facts slander becomes the tool of the loser, as is, their ignorance.
To correct you
Pastor - A minister in charge of a Christian church or congregation. [Noun]; be pastor of (a church or congregation). [Verb]
Pastor Russell died in 1916 and was succeeded by Pastor Rutherford, a former Judge, to lead the Bible Students who evidently became Jehovah's Witnesses.
Pastor Rutherford (Joseph Franklin "Judge" Rutherford) was the second president (or leader) of the incorporated Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. He played a primary role in the organization and doctrinal development of Jehovah's Witnesses who came out of the Bible Student Movement (One of the movements that emerged from the Great Awakening/Revival). He only became one of Bible Students because he developed an interest in the teachings of Watch Tower Society's Pastor Russell, which led to his joining the Bible Student movement, and he was baptized in 1906. He also had a hand, using his Law Experience, for legal counsel.
The reason he was called A Judge was because he began his career in law, working as a Court Stenographer, as is with experience as a trial lawyer and prosecutor, in addition to that, he became a special judge in the 14th Judicial District of Missouri at some time after 1895.
Therefore, Pastor and Judge are two different things, the fact you attest to that ridiculous assertion proves you are not as wise as your friend, let alone the one you adhere to who had committed ill acts.
Because your ignorance is in full display and you deem to not know the difference, I provided a source for you, one of which even children can understand, I change the font to your favorite color - https://kids.kiddle.co/Joseph_Franklin_Rutherford
That being said, yet again, you exposed yourself to not be a denier of Holocaust history or the Era of the early 1900s, but in this case, this notation as well. To add salt to injury whenever this Pastor is mentioned in debates here, you attest to this person being among the leaders of the JWs outside of the GB, or Russell, who, was not a JW at the time, but a Bible Student.
A former Jehovah's Witness, yet, the mindset of a broken man. With a spirit as messed up as what you have due to your own misguidance, it would be wise on your part to correct yourself, falsehood is indefensible, as is those who cower behind it who arbor a twisted Agenda.
That said, if you want to be serious, you have to explain as to why your version of history as is with @Witness and the former JW is vastly different from the accounts known.
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15 hours ago, Pudgy said:
Along the general topic of the above posts, it’s interesting to note that Superman really is Superman.
He only pretends to be Clark Kent.
Sometimes this is obvious, sometimes it’s not.
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Example 3 [1925] - Now for example 3, it is the same reused, washed and rinsed rhetoric about Pastor Rutherford's Millions will Never Die... All that can be said is there is a lot of obscurity that would make The Guardian and CNN blush, so much so, the focus in that was on full display on both sides, even those in the middle. It gets even more convoluted when people confuse the End of the World (God's Day, Armageddon) with The Second Coming of Christ, not only this is done, but the other faction of Christianity, The Mainstreamers, tends to weaponize whatever obscurity they can find against various opponents, in this case, JWs. Moreover, in challenge by some, they conclude to an answer that is not favorable to opponents to the faith community in question, even if minor.
Conclusion
[Archives]: - Archives are not something mystery or hidden, for all domains/infrastructure pertaining to government and other institutions have them somewhere hence public domain. Although some domains have logins and the like to access information, i.e. A Community College Registrar Internat Logon vs. A Community College Registrar Internat Logon for Admins and Staff, anything that is older/past information are archived. Even to Students, as with those who are going to College, University/Trade School, and or those in the Workforce, are aware of such things, to the religious, this isn't something of a big secret or a mystery. Even various media and forums have them, in this case, Invision Community, in which Archiving is possible. The latter would be correct if the big secret was legitimate unknown to all people, all JWs, and all institutions, but Archives related to the Watchtower, Jehovah's Witness and or their predecessor, The bible Students, are on public domain, i.e. publications and documentation from the late 1800s, early 1900s can be found. The co-latter also isn't aware that Libraries and Archives are different.
- Libraries collect and provide access to published materials in order to disseminate information, promote scholarship, and provide entertainment.
- An archive is a collection of records created or received by a person, family, or organization, and preserved because of their continuing value.
Example 1 [Racism] - The latter is totally oblivious to history, and adheres to bias opinion (no different from a BHI/BLMer), so much so, agrees with interjecting today's modern society view of Racism to apply it to how things were in the past, being totally unaware of the events leading to The Segregation Era and what transpired in those days. Since the focus was on Bible Students, the claim by the video presented stated the following
ExJW - [segregated congregations you had coloured congregations and white congregations where does that sound familiar? That is racism]
This former JW slyly didn't mentioned the events of that Era, namely Jim Crow Laws, and events that led up to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Not to mention The notation of Segregation was not done due to Racism. Moreover, in those days, some Bible Students in fact did risk their lives in a dangerous environment to see those for their faith community, even if the skin color of theirs are not the same, as is, knowing any Jim Crow Mentality folk would punishment them if caught, especially if the person was black. This correlates with the events of 1921. And for the sake of argument, if Bible Students were indeed Racism, as pointed out, they would have expired as a community long ago, Jehovah's Witnesses would most likely not have existed, even today, no Rutherford, no JW Churches, etc. for the downfall would be due to a broken community that is no longer unified. It can also be concluded that the latter and co-latter lack any knowledge of history, for one of them attempted to interject doctrine, as is with stating to know about an Era only to back peddle.
Example 2 [Holocaust] - The latter's video attested to the idea that the sole focus of the Holocaust was Jehovah's Witnesses and them alone, as shown already from a time stamp from the video which reads:
ExJW -[jehovah's witnesses in other words this article and the examples contained within it is meant to convey or meant to promote the idea that the nazi parties concentration camps were really just for jehovah's witnesses and that the jews and homosexuals got caught up in the mix but the real target we are the real ones under the microscope here that would be joyous witnesses that's quite something to really repaint history....]
This is false, as we already know, Christians and onlookers should be cautious of a false witness, as is, with those defending it. Adolf Hitler adhered to Antisemitism (although origin is unknown) - [hostility to or prejudice against Jewish people], for it played a major role in his thinking and in the Nazi ideology. Read here what inspired Hitler's hatred of Jews and what life events played a role in its development. Fast Forward to the events of the Nazi Regime. The Nazi started Jews, for Jews were hated in the EU and suffered discrimination and the like. When they started to attack, beat up, shame and rape Jews, this led them to capture also Homosexuals, the Sinti and the Roma (or Gypsies), as with Jehovah's Witnesses. The Nazis tormented the Jehovah's Witnesses differently compared to the other captives and the goal was to get them to renounce their faith, even prior, the Reich did a number of any homes and buildings they had. It is also noted of them being neutral and their view forwards War. The Concentration Camps were not specially design for and only JWs, others were there too, therefore, the YouTuber not only gave a bias opinion with a false claim, he seems to have adopted the Leftist mentality when using a 1930s source (which can be found in Archives) by simply looking at the title and not knowing anything of what the document or publication says.
As anyone can see with both the latter and co-latter, defiance to the end for falsehood, and when questioned about the Holocaust, their decision was to portray themselves as children of God while dining at the table of demons - hence the usage of 1 John 4:1 when it comes to testing the spirit, was used. In addition to that, the defense of falsehood can also lean such ones to pertain to Holocaust distortion, a level of denial of even the facts, somewhat of a representation of those attempting to re-write history with misinformation to fuel their Agenda.
That being said, God is close to anyone bearing a true witness, as with those who can discern, as is be reasonable. What we see here is an example of hatred, in which people who are refuted in a challenge cannot see their own folly. They can't even adhere to anything historical. Then they slip into an appeal to motive, reasons why this quotes reflects that
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers.
Biblically speaking, going forward, such people need to be tested in the spirit, to see if it true or tainted. As is the actions of such ones vs. the truth itself.
Psalm 109:2-4
2 For wicked and deceitful mouths are opened against me,
speaking against me with lying tongues.
3 They encircle me with words of hate,
and attack me without cause.
4 In return for my love they accuse me,
but I give myself to prayer.That being said, facts are everything, they do not obscure truth because such can be verified, even in the face of claims and absurdities of which cannot be proven true/false. As predicted any comment going forward the same ill justifiable cause will continue, as is with the lack of critical thinking which has been replaced with deterioration of the mind, mental depravity.
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46 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:
Your logic and connecting non-existent statements is fascinating. You set a thesis and if someone on the forum does not react to it, then you attribute to him imaginary motives, imaginary attitudes, imaginary conclusions. Just keep going, you're doing well, but you're not going anywhere.
Sure, yet the responses do not lie as with the facts backing it. Because if you really lived up to your words, you'd be able to bring yourself to answer. Actionable cause is seen, as is your Agenda - you walked yourself right into that one, mainly when you tried to equate doctrine in a specific account.
That being said, you adhereing to a false witness, has been exposed.
On the contrary these are not imagainry remarks (debaters do not use their imagaination), I watched the video, i.e. examples 1 and 2 - therefore your reponse and Witness' were deduced, unmasked, so to speak. If you want I can pull a time stamped transscript for you.
Here you go.
[jehovah's witnesses in other words this article and the examples contained within it is meant to convey or meant to promote the idea that the nazi parties concentration camps were really just for jehovah's witnesses and that the jews and homosexuals got caught up in the mix but the real target we are the real ones under the microscope here that would be joyous witnesses that's quite something to really repaint history....]
Imaginary? Nice assumption, moreover, now that your Agenda has been revealed, the last thing you need is someone to crack the Agenda laced armor you wear. Turns out you also exposed yourself for being Witness' YES MAN. You agreed to a video you didn't even watch.... That is quite laughable, just like Glasgow.
Just the tip of the iceberg.
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25 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:
Keep counting. If you do not sleep but count, you will go far in counting.
Then you reaveled yourself to believe that the Nazi Regime started with Jehovah's Witnesses prior to the Jews and everyone else - since you are in agreeance with the video in question likewise with Witness who conisder the video to be factucal, then you algin yourself with this YouTuber.
On 2/11/2022 at 12:32 PM, Witness said:His first-hand exposure to the facts, is eye-opening.
The reason you didn't answer because you knew the video to be misleading (therefore, you had an Agenda to even shift the means of historical accounts) therefore, when a direct question from the video is asked, you deviate from it. Likewise with the first example in the video regarding race. The irony is you and Witness always question JWs here, but when the roles are in reverse, mainly when other partieis are invovled, its a problem.
Both you and @Witness claim this not to be misleading via your alluding in comments when it was already coined that the video has bias opinion and mistruths, as we can see the allduing in the first few pages, but when the reufation is addressed, you shy away from what you put on the pedsetal you claim as a truth. So much so both of you used appeal to motive tactics to deviate and obsure what was told in this thread, in Witness' case, she try to dodge the claims by saying because so and so are not JWs somehow the issue of race, archives and the Holocaust is somehow ailen to the onlooker.
That being said, a shift in history to befit an bias opinion shows that both you and @Witness have an Agenda, in adhereance to the video. Those with an Agenda, mainly when it comes to race, as is historical accounts, the Holocaust, will do anything neccessary to shift the truth, to obsurce it because they [you] hold some disdain for something or someone, so much so, the action to tear truth from limb to limb is an actionable cause; to see it as a justification.
Therefore, the orginal comment is true - the video is misleading. No one is asking you to AGREE with Jehovah's Witnesses, but you have to UNDERSTAND and CRITICALLY THINK here to discern what is true and what is false.
The Glasgow conundrum has not only infected you, but Witness also.
That being said, the orignal statement of the video being misleading, is confirmed to be TRUE.
The posiiton you and Witness hold is a dangerous precendent. It is no wonder Mr. Bill is silent for it is best to not get invovled with anything related to history.
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33 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:
Because public JW Archive not exists
Oh really? Then explain the links cited in this thread, and the one Witness linked? I even mentioned the debate I ahd with her orginally, both of us had used sources, however in her chance, she relied on material that obsure truth. Even Education Insitutions have them. All of them contain publications, some even early to the inception of the Bible Students themsevles. So if someone wants to look at anything from the late 1800s, they can find this information, be it one domain or the other. no mention of Libararies, as @Dmitar and I have already stated this, as is in his case, it noted there is a difference - gave you a source even which is a .gov.
That being said, this is the 4th time you avoided the question about the Holocaust.
If you truly believe in the words of the ExJW Bethel member from this video, then you'd know the answer to the question that is posed.
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1 minute ago, Srecko Sostar said:
What is "wow" here? I already stated what you now finally admit. There is difference with library and archive. JW ordinary members have a access only to JW Library.
But they do have access to archives of their choice. Hence the question addressed to you.
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20 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:
Plenty of words. Nothing more. Admit, please, that JW members have a JW library, not a JW Archive.
Yet words have meaning with facts behind it. Not too long ago you speak boldy in regards to facts vs opinion. That said, of which was said, already stated as with the notation of the archives. Why go back now when a critical question to example 2 of the video is now ongoing?
Again, if you believe the video to be true, just as Witness believes it to be true, did the Nazi Regime take the action or not? All of a sudden another point from the video cocnerning history you are avoid it.
Why?
As a side note, you mentioned Croatia. The Independent State of Croatia was also invovled in the events of WW II in regards to History pretaining to the Nazi Regime.
All histroical accounts, even the archives pretaining this event, and Germany's dark past, states otherwise.
EDIT:
You can react with a laugh all you want, the question still stands.
BETHEL'S BIG SECRET
in Topics
Posted
@Witness @Srecko Sostar Because I take pity on the misguided, I suggest you read/look into the following. It does not matter whether you are a former, or current Jehovah's Witness, does not matter if you agree or disagree, but you both have to understand that a re-write of history is an extremely bad precedent; for I stated this to even the Black Hebrew Israelites. This precedent can lead to the category of denial of history/or distortion of the Holocaust. This also goes for the events that took place prior, and the unrelated Gobitis situation involving the American Constitution.
Example one, also refuted via this source
a source both JWI and I mentioned in the past:
Source which refutes Example 2:
Misc:
The Gobitis Case
You do not have to read through all of them, but there are points in there that give detail. As stated, videos and experiences vary, people do give their bias opinion, it does not mean you have to shut off your mind when you are accountable to being a discerning person. It is unknown if neither of you are a genuine Christian, regardless, it would be wise to discern what you are hearing/reading, for Christians have the responsibility to Examine such things, liken to Apostle Paul and those in Macedonia, etc. Do not give in to the Agenda either because it only makes you a viable candidate for the Beast and the Harlot.