Space Merchant

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I don't understand who you are accusing of what here ??? 

Who was 'shot in the back from friendly fire' ?  And who did the shooting ? 

People turning on their neighbors, being friendly and welcoming and in an instant in fear of the Kremlin or be twisted by them become foe/enemy, likewise with those who once welcomed them., even the schools were some professors allowed bullying of those of the faith. This happened numerous times in Russia, even prior to and during the JW ban. There were videos that were presented by their media that got people to shift attitude towards those the Kremlin, The Church and the Duma deem a threat.

Some of this stuff may still be around if not scrubbed like the hacker website going after people in Russia via FindFace.

@JW InsiderYep, and that is just a couple of things he worked on concerning Pastor Russell, outside of hit YouTube crusades he tends to deal with should someone go too far. The last time I saw him he was dealing with someone who was justifying that the Lord mentioned in Jesus in Acts 2:21, and Romans 10:13, even Joel 2:32 is Jesus, even going as far as to use a Lexicon to prove it, and Reslite made a response to the person. There was someone else similar to him, who may be a JW who also speaks of the pastor, but is more neutral.

@Srecko Sostar Seems as though you need to read up more on what is constitutional and or anything similar to it, as is with data tracking within an AD or anything similar to that effect. within said fields.

On 9/26/2021 at 11:49 AM, Pudgy said:

Of course not, but that WOULD HAVE been an unintended consequence other than the clearly stated goal of the project, which was to influence the Russian Government to stop the persecution of the Brotherhood.

There was a lot that took place in Russia around the time the JWs got banned prior, during and after. Essentially, it is like that of someone lighting a match to a flame. So a lot of things took place, cooled down slightly after Putin won..... (by a landslide.) then you have the events of Alexei Navalny and his allies, Homosexuals disappearing off the streets and sent to camps, and the emergence of the FSB and hacker groups using FindFace to track not only Alexei Navalny allies, but falsely brand anyone associated with him, including Religious people. Moreover, it has nothing to do with politics, but the claim of them being extremist more of a push to remove them even, in addition, to many things mentioned by Kremlin controlled media.

It was technically a Triad in Russia that ultimately caused these things.

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I am of the opinion that it is completely legal for a person to have the right to inspect all documentation concerning him personally. In fact, the institution is obliged to provide the person with any documentation it has made concerning that person. For example, the institution makes decisions in which period employees will take annual leave. The document which is the decision on the beginning and end of the annual leave must be signed and certified and one copy/sample delivered to the employee. If an employee one day loses his document or cannot find it in his personal documentation, then he has the opportunity to look for that document in the institution. He would have the right to inspect that document, or request a copy, or take a photograph of the document with his cell phone and the like.

Since this is about WTJWorg and special rules, within this religious institution, that are not completely clear even to its own members, because many things are not even told them how the internal system works, then complications are possible and inevitable, that our friend @Patiently waiting for Truthtalking about.

This alone shows the unawareness of what is constitutional and what is not. Even those in Law can make a mistake in anything related to and or equal to things in the realm of Constitutional like restrictions.

Actually when it comes to all religious institutions under such a thing, they're identical, it only becomes complex the bigger and more sensitive the data is in institutions that have very little to do with religion, as is, vs the individual who seeks said data of where they are position, i.e. a common working man vs a doctor, police officer, someone in government, FBI seeking data from someone's phone, device, etc.

That being said, critical and sensitive data can't really be requested by someone to a degree, i.e. an Ex-Employee (out of the company for 6 years) cannot ask for his data on the active directory and or anything pertaining to it on the server, it is held by said cooperate business.

I found some of Reslite's work, regarding his defense of 1914, he has a lot to say about it, as well as defending Pastor Russell from ExJWs sources.

The first quotation below was his response to an EXJW blog post which is connected to JW Facts.

The second quotation is a bit lengthy, for his focus was people taking things out of context in relation to 1914

Quote

We are quoting the following from a website:

In 1876, Russell wrote an article that appeared in the October, 1876 issue of the Bible Examiner under the title, “Gentile Times: When do they End?” On page 27 he was writing about Luke 21:24...

The Early Writings of Charles Taze Russell

We wish to say to begin with that the article represents Russell's view before 1904; in 1904, he came to realize that the "time of trouble" was to begin in 1914, not end in 1914. 

The author of the site continues:

He said that the “Seven Times” will end in AD 1914. However, the anticipated Kingdom of Jehovah did not come. Big surprise! None, zero, zip, nada of the events concerning Jerusalem, mentioned in Luke 21:24 occurred in the predicted year, 1914. The Society then concluded that 1914 was not the end of the “Seven Times” but was to be a turning point in human history. Two years later, Russell died. (Maybe the dejection and depression that God was actually not using him took its toll.)

There are several misrepresentations being presented here. Although Russell was expecting God's kingdom to be established in 1914, he was not expecting that it would all of a sudden bring peace to the earth in 1914, rather just the opposite: from 1904 onward, he was expecting that with the influence of God's kingdom the world would enter into the worst time of trouble and warfare that it had ever seen, the nations would become angry. Thus, it is absolutely not true that nothing happened in 1914, and the fact that the greatest war the world had ever seen began in that year does give reason to believe that the spasms of the time of trouble did begin that year.

The quote from the site, after declaring that nothing happened in 1914, then states: "The Society then concluded that 1914 was not the end of the 'Seven Times' but was to be a turning point in human history." This is totally false! The Society in 1914 certainly never concluded that 1914 was not the end of the Gentiles, and as far as we know, it has never concluded such! Russell certainly never made any statement that the Gentile Times had not ended in 1914, and he made many statements to the effect that they had ended up to the day that he died. We have no doubt that Russell died rejoicing that he was seeing the Bible prophecies come true.

That Brother Russell had not concluded that the "seven times" had not ended can be seen from the following quotes from the The Watch Tower, all made after October 1914.

Because certain important things are to be accomplished, we see that God is permitting what to others might seem to be purely human devilishness. For a wise purpose He permits this reign of lawlessness, this condition which evokes universal odium. Our thought is that we should look for still further evidences day by day that the Gentile Times have ended, and that God's Kingdom has begun its work. We are expecting to see multiplied proofs of the Kingdom power, though the world will not recognize it as such until it is manifested in the flaming fire of Anarchy, which is still further along. The present step is the war of the nations. The next step will be Socialism--an attempted Socialism--among the people. Then the third step, Anarchy, will gradually come on.

When this symbolic fire shall prevail, then the world will realize what we are trying to tell them now; namely, that God's Kingdom is taking control, and that these various demonstrations are evidences that our Lord is taking His great power. But the many will not begin to see until the flaming fire is revealed. When we endeavor to tell them now they will not receive it, but they will be thoroughly convinced when they see the destructive fire of Anarchy. The Watch Tower, February 15, 1915.

The Bible indicates that the Gentile Times have ended. Their kings have had their day. They have made a good showing, in many respects. Many of these governments have done wonderfully. The Watch Tower, July 15, 1915. We believe that Gentile Times have ended, and that God is now allowing the Gentile Governments to destroy themselves, in order to prepare the way for Messiah's Kingdom. The Watch Tower, April 15, 1916

It still seems clear to us that the prophetic period known as the Times of the Gentiles ended chronologically in October, 1914. The fact that the Great Day of Wrath upon the nations began there marks a good fulfillment of our expectations. The Watch Tower, September 1, 1916
We only chose those quotes that are most precise; more quotes could have been given. These, however, are sufficient to show that Brother Russell did not then, in 1914 (or any other time after 1876), conclude that the "seven times" had not ended in 1914.

Quote

The following is the text of the article that appeared in The Bible Students Monthly, January, 1914, issue. Written by Charles Taze Russell, the article relates his viewpoint concerning "the end of the world," and how he was not expecting the "end of the world" in 1914. Indeed, the article further shows that Russell was not expecting the second coming of Jesus in 1914, as some have claimed. Nevertheless, some have quoted the large bold headline out its context, which reads "End of World in 1914," and claimed that Russell was preaching that the world would end in 1914. In fact, the smaller bold headline underneath the large headline continues by saying, "Not the View of Pastor Russell or of I.B.S.A." Thus, in fact, the tract denies that Brother Russell was expecting "the end of the world" in 1914.

 

We have expanded the names of some of the Bible books that were abbreviated in the original, in order to aid electronic searches for scriptural references. Links are provided for relevant information on some words or phrases of the text, which may be accessed by clicking on the words or phrases.

 

We do not necessarily agree with all of Russell's conclusions as presented in the article.

 

 

 

END OF WORLD IN 1914

Not the View of Pastor Russell nor of I. B. S. A.
"The Earth Abideth Forever"
Christ will not return to Earth as a Man
Present Year Believed to Mark Great Change of Dispensation,
but World May not discern Immediate Difference

 

I am prompted in the selection of my text by reading an extract from the sermon of a Canadian minister delivered recently. In it he declared that 1914 would witness the Second Coming of Christ, etc. His statement allowed the inference that he holds the view common to nearly all the creeds; namely, that the earth is to be burned up and the human race blotted out; and that, incidentally, Christ will come a second time, to see that none of the Church are included in the destruction.

 

MISTAKES OF DARK AGES BEING CORRECTED

 

To my understanding, all such expectations are wholly unscriptural, untrue, misleading, and hindrances to a right understanding of the Bible. They belong to the Dark Ages, when public teachers seemed to lose all appreciation of poetic language, figurative language, mental imagery. They belong to the time when Christ's references to Gehenna Fire, which burned outside the walls of Jerusalem, were understood to mean an eternity of torture for all except the saintly few. They belong to the time when Jesus' words respecting the cutting off of the right hand and the plucking out of the right eye were misunderstood, and taken literally.

 

St. Peter's words are generally urged to be the foundation for the theory that the world will be destroyed by literal fire at the Second Coming of Christ, when the heavens shall be on fire, and the earth also and the things therein shall be burned up (2 Peter 3:10), a literal interpretation here overlooks the fact that St. Peter, speaking of the very same time, in Acts 3:19-21, declares that Times of Restitution and blessing - not times of world-burning - will follow the Second Coming of Jesus. It also overlooks the fact that St. Peter and the other apostles, as well as the Master, frequently used the word fire in a symbolic sense, to represent tribulation. Thus St. Peter, addressing the Church, says: "Think it not strange concerning the fiery trial that shall try you."

 

St. Paul says that the fire of that Day shall try the work of every man [the Church], of which sort it is. Those who have built with gold, silver, precious stones [the promises of God's Word], shall be fireproof in that Day; while those who have built with the wood, hay and stubble of tradition-Higher Criticism, Human Evolution, etc.,-will find their faith structure amenable to the fire; and they will suffer the loss of faith and have tribulations accordingly. Yet, the Apostle explains, such will themselves be saved, but these very fiery trials will destroy their misconceptions. They will be saved because, in spite of their errors, they built their faith upon Christ. -- 1 Corinthians 3:11-15.

 

The Apostle, however, urged that all should build with gold, silver and precious stones-characteristics which would enable them to pass through the fire of that Day unscathed-"more than conquerors." Similarly, Jesus referred to a testing of faith, by the figure of a flood, telling that those who built upon the sand would suffer loss; but that those who built upon the Rock would be safe. All these Scriptures, however, these references to fiery trials, etc., belong to the end of the Age - not the end of the world.

 

"THE EARTH ABIDETH FOREVER"

 

The Bible teaches that in God's great Plan He has provided various epochs, or ages, each for the accomplishment of its own special work; for instance, the Jewish Age with its work, and the Gospel Age with its work, to be followed by the Millennial Age and its still different work. The Bible declares that "the earth abideth forever" (Ecclesiastes 1:4); that "God created it not in vain; He formed it to be inhabited." (Isaiah 45 :18). The earth has never yet been inhabited. There are immense tracts of country still unoccupied. The Divine Plan for the earth has not yet reached consummation. It will require the thousand years of Messiah's glorious Kingdom Power to bring the world out of present sin and death conditions, and into the glorious conditions of Millenial blessing and Restitution, of which the Scriptures so frequently speak, and which St. Peter declares God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy Prophets.

 

So, then, the basis for thinking of the end of the world, now or ever, is purely a misunderstanding, due largely to the fact that our English translation uses the word world where it would more properly have used the word Age, Epoch, or order of things. In a word, the present order of things, of which the Scriptures declare Satan is the prince, or ruler, is not to be perpetual; it is to pass away. A new order of things, under the control of Messiah, the Prince of Light, is to take the place of the present reign of the Prince of Darkness. A reign of righteousness and life is to succeed the present reign of sin and death, according to St. Paul. -- Romans 5:17, 21.

CHRIST'S SECOND COMING

The Bible everywhere represents that Christ left a Heavenly glory when He came to earth nearly nineteen centuries ago. "The Logos was made flesh and dwelt among us." The Bible explains that the necessity for this humiliation, this leaving the glory and taking a bondman's form, lay in the fact that God had pronounced a death sentence upon man, which mankind was paying and from which they could not be released unless someone would become their redeemer and meet the penalty for them - a death penalty, not an eternal-torment penalty, of which the Scriptures know nothing.

 

The Bible nowhere tells that Jesus took the human nature to keep it forever, and to return with it to Heaven, where it would be completely out of order and out of place. The Bible teaches, on the contrary, that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 15:50); and that Jesus was made flesh merely "that He, by the grace of God, should taste death for every man" (Hebrews 2:9); and that after doing this work He would "ascend up where He was before." (John 6:62) St. Paul assures us that this, the Divine Program, has been carried out. After telling of our Lord's obedience to the Father's will in humbling Himself to death, even the death of the cross, he adds, "God hath highly exalted Him" - "far above angels, principalities and powers." -- Philippians 2:5-11; Ephesians 1:20-23.

 

The Master declared plainly, "Yet a little while, and the world shall see Me no more"; but He promised that He would be seen by His followers. St. John declares, "We shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He IS." (1 John 3:2) We read: "Every eye shall see Him"; but this, to be in harmony with the other Scriptures, must refer to the eyes of understanding. The Bible declares that eyes of human understanding are blinded now by error and sin, but that shortly all the blind eyes shall be opened. Then all will see Messiah and His Kingdom with the eye of faith, as the Church now see Jesus, the crown of life, and the things which the natural eye hath not seen.

 

PAROUSIA--PRESENCE;
EPIPHANIA--MANIFESTATION

 

Our English word coming is used to translate several very different Greek words. One of these is Parousia, which means presence, and is used in referring to the first stage of the Lord's Second Advent. He will be invisibly present. For a time none but the saintly few whose eyes of understanding are anointed through the Word and the Spirit will realize His Parousia, His presence, while all things earthly will continue as they have been-buying, selling, building, marrying, etc.

 

Then, later on, will come the Epiphania; that is to say, the revelation, or manifestation, of the present One. This will not be a manifestation in the flesh, but in a great Time of Trouble, symbolically represented as fire, as when we read, "He shall be revealed in flaming fire, taking vengeance." -- 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

To my understanding, the Bible teaches that Jesus has been present in the world since 1874. In other words, His Second Advent then began. The wonderful progress in the world since then Bible students thus explain; the wonderful blessing upon them and their study of the Bible they interpret in harmony with this. They understand the Bible to teach that this Parousia will continue for a thousand years; but that the Epiphania, or manifestation to the world, will be due in forty years from the time the Presence began. For this reason they are looking very interestedly to see what the present year may bring forth. And do we not see everywhere signs of unrest, a time of trouble brewing? It looks as though this year would mark the beginning of the "flaming fire" of judgments upon the world which will mark the closing of this Age and the inauguration of the New Dispensation of Messiah's Kingdom, when "justice shall be laid to the line and righteousness to the plummet," and when the ignorance, superstition and darkness which so long have hindered us will begin to be broken. The transition may be painful, yet it will be blessed, marking the overthrow of Satan's empire and reign of sin and death and the inauguration of Messiah's Kingdom and its reign of righteousness and life eternal.

 

"EATING, DRINKING, PLANTING AND BUILDING"

Our Lord, in describing His Second Presence, clearly indicated that it would be unnoticed by the world until the cataclysm of trouble should come. Thus He likened the earlier days of His presence to that period before the Flood, when the world, unconscious of the impending catastrophe, continued to build, eat and drink as usual, and knew not. So, says the Master, it will be in the end of this Age.

 

Eating, drinking, building, planting and marrying will proceed as usual; and the world will not know that they are in the PRESENCE of the Son of Man. The great Day of Trouble, noted throughout the Scriptures as "the Time of Trouble such as never was since there was a nation," will come upon them suddenly - St. Paul says, like the pangs of a woman in child-birth. A New Dispensation and new order of things is about to be born, and this great trouble is merely incidental to that birth. St. Paul, in referring to the matter, says: "Yourselves know perfectly, brethren, that the Day of the Lord cometh as a thief in the night. For when they [the world] shall say, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that Day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all children of the light, children of the Day." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:1-6.

 

CHANGE A CAUSE FOR REJOICING

 

If this great change from the dominion of Satan to the rule of Christ shall begin to manifest itself this very year, 1914, it will be a cause for rejoicing to all. Although no sufferings are joyous, but rather grievous, nevertheless, when we know that our interests are in the hands of a gracious Savior, who died for us and who is intent upon doing all that can be done for the recovery of our race from sin and death, we may well be glad in realizing that the Plan which Messiah is about to carry out for the blessing and uplifting of mankind from sin and death conditions is part of the original Divine Plan of the Father. And we have all the more joy, confidence and assurance that all things will work together for good to those that love God.

 

"The bud may have a bitter taste,
But sweet will be the flower."

 

The trouble will be an awful one, but we believe not of great length. The Bible everywhere tells of the glorious results that will follow, when the shackles of darkness, sin and error shall be broken, and when all the spiritual powers surrounding mankind will be good and helpful, as in contrast with those of the wicked spirits now operating through mediums, by clairvoyant and clairaudient powers, to ensnare, to deceive, to bewilder mankind.

 

The fact that our Lord appeared in seven different flesh-forms on various occasions after His resurrection does not contradict other plain statements. Rather, we see that such appearances resembled the appearances of angels in the flesh, to communicate some good message from God to men. Had Jesus not materialized and appeared to His disciples, what proof would they or we ever have had respecting His resurrections And would not the fact that He saw them for a few moments and then vanished tend to prove to them that He was no longer a flesh being, but a spirit being, who had merely appeared to them for a special purpose?

St. Paul declares that he saw the Lord last, and not as a man, but as a spirit being, whose brightness was above that of the sun; and it injured his eyesight; for our Lord was not veiled in the flesh, as when He appeared to the disciples during the forty days.

 

The Christ who is to come a second time, then, is not the Jesus of the flesh, but the glorified Jesus, who in nature and glory is far above the angels-of the Divine nature.

 

"THIS SAME JESUS--SHALL COME AGAIN"

 

When Jesus ascended, two angels appeared to the disciples, saying, "This same Jesus whom ye have seen go into Heaven shall so come again in like manner as ye have seen Him go." In the past many of us have misunderstood this statement - not scrutinizing it carefully enough. Assuredly it will be the same Jesus that will come again - the same One who died for us, the same One who left the glory for us before He was born the Babe of Bethlehem. In all His changes He remains the same personality, as He declared: "I am He that is, and was, and is to come." The angels did not say, however, He will come again in the flesh, or materialized, as you have seen Him go away. Their message related to the MANNER of His going and the MANNER of His coming. What was there special about the manner of His going away that would correspond to the manner of His coming again? Many things! He went away quietly, secretly, unknown to the world, unknown to any except His disciples. In like manner has been His Parousia-silently, quietly, unknown to the world, not known to any except His disciples. Surely, if we are right in saying that His Parousia began in 1874, the manner would correspond with the manner of His going. He did not come with glorious hosts, blaring trumpets, etc., but as a "thief in the night." If we have the correct date and chronology, Gentile Times will end this year-1914.

 

What of it? We do not surely know. Our expectation is that the active rule of Messiah will begin about the time of the ending of the lease of power to the Gentiles. Our expectation, true or false, is that there will be wonderful manifestations of Divine judgments against all unrighteousness, and that this will mean the breaking up of many institutions of the present time, if not all. Some Scriptures seem to indicate that this will mean world-wide anarchy, not all beginning at the same moment, nor ending at the same time, but beginning and gradually spreading the world around. The further intimation is that this trouble will eventually prove a blessing to humanity, melting their hearts in the Day of Trouble, teaching the more of sympathy for one another, breaking the power of superstition, wealth, ignorance, etc. - preparing them for the glorious Reign of Messiah's Kingdom.

31 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Yes and because of such I can understand people wanting to have their own personal information.

As an example, I left the JW Org of my own choice, but since then an Elder has phoned my wife and told her that I was disfellowshipped.  Now I told those Elders the reasons I was leaving, so I had not been removed by them. However that Elder said I had been disfellowshipped. So, what do they hold on record about me ?   Do they have truth, that i left, or do they have a lie, that i was disfellowshipped ? 

Hence I can understand why Ex-JWs would want their personal records. I would now like to have my records from my ex-congregation. 

They can still hold records even if you are no longer in their faith community, you may have said or done something that resulted in grounds of excommunication if they had you listed as such, also depends on those involved.  Granted this is private data, it is still stored by them. Due to under such constitutional like arrangement.

This is the same with all institutions, mainly businesses, even schools, for anyone removed from said institutions, their record is still there. In IT you cannot delete a former employee's record, be it if they left on their own accord or they are disgruntled against an institution and got themselves terminated.

Religious institutions hold records for the main reason of keeping excommunicated folks out of their community if they pose a problem.

Records most of them usually hold is equal to that of a school record to some degree, person's name, address, birth date, age, sex, etc, even email and with it various notes and or accolades, if so and so got injury at some point, etc. Usually the bigger and higher the institution, the more complex these records get, and the more sensitive they are. Even more complex if the institution in of itself has the legitimate data in it's heart, so to speak, meaning if the heart is compromised, with even a small KB of someone's data being leaked or given out, outside of what is deemed constitutional, the institution can be essentially brought to ruin and or damaged badly.

Moreover, even those in Law sometimes do not realize they are fighting against or going around the constitution itself and or anything similar to it, i.e. the events of January 6th in the United States whereas Leftism attempt to break constitution to enact an end game.

26 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I now tend to use the BSB, Berean Study Bible, which I find much easier to read and get the sense of. 

I'm not saying it is a better Bible but it certainly is better for me to study than the NWT. 

BSB is literal word for word/easy to read, there isn't a study source for it, granted it was produced by Bible Hub, however, Bible Hub instill takes in commentary and notes from others such as Thayer, etc. However, the notes are mixed, therefore, you would still need to study outside of Bible Hub for better understanding.

The BSB and the NWT are among the few Bibles that is said to follow the sources, whereas BSB is literal word for word easy read format and the NWT is a modern revision, more evident to them following the earliest source can be seen in verses like 1 Timothy 3:16, Acts 7:59, Revelation 1:11, etc.

That being said, as long as there is no affiliation with TR and if there is, there has to be a notation. This is one of my issues with KJV Onlyist, even during a time I use to deal with them in person.

Just now, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

And who was Jesus speaking to ?  Please remember that Jesus came to the 'Lost tribe of the House of Israel'. 

Matthew 15 : ²⁴  He answered: “I was not sent to anyone except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

The Nation of Israel was under covenant to Almighty God. They belonged to God.

And do you know why Jesus spoke those words. I have given the answer above. 

 

The verse still applies to people today, be it chosen or not, JB, as with those before us.

21 hours ago, BroRando said:

Imposter... using corrupt scripture that removed Jehovah's Holy Name.

To be fair LORD in all caps refers to the God of Israel - Strong's 3068. In some translations it is Yahweh or Jehovah/YHWH. It is only a violation if something other than the Strong's itself is there and or something not related to it.

The only people who get fooled are those who do not know why LORD is all caps or it's connection to Tetragrammaton. But to be honest, if the people back then simply put YHWH or equivalent and left it as is, a lot less confusion by others later on, then you also have the fear of those who invoke the name of God.

On 9/24/2021 at 10:24 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Here in England I used the Data Protection Act to get printed documents concerning ME, that of my Medical Records from my GP, and that of my personal information concerning my time (in the 1960's) in a Children's Home that was government run.

I wanted more information concerning the employees and management of the Children's Home, and I was told to use the Freedom Of Information Act, to gain more information. However I was told that this extra information would not be mailed to me, and that I would have to visit an office and read through a large amount of files to be able to gain the information. Even then I would not be allowed to take photos or take notes on the files I read.  

But you are an individual. Works differently with institutions and or cooperate, and or those within, etc. There are records that are specific of which you as an individual cannot obtain in the United Kingdom. Therefore, some data you won't be able to obtain, mainly sensitive critical data, i.e. they won't give you the history of and or medical records of child A, B and C to you directly, but they will give it to someone who is of a higher authority or position in that Children's Home because they are the ones manage these records, and keep it private, even in the respects of that child's guardian. This goes for other forums of data, even in the realm of media. Likewise with any Data in connection to you, in the wrong hands if given out can destroy your life and the live of those in the crossfire.

That being said, when it comes to Data, passing of Data, it can prove to be useful or destructive leaving some type of scar regardless of which direction it takes.

2 minutes ago, NoisySrecko said:

You seem to fail to understand the complexities of how the Bible Student association work. They are independent of each other with their own understandings. Some enjoy being compared to the Advent Movement, while others enjoy their autonomy.  Pastor Russell was different in may respects. That is what JWs should focus on. My point about Wiki was simple. It's unreliable since anyone can "edit" the content.

I made this point, they are not unified, there are different groups who are independent, different views, even those who hold 1914, or that similar to it, to some significance be it Jesus being crowned as King or the latter. The CSE thread brought up the 1843 chart because the question was asked if anyone outside of JWs hold this 1914 view, identical or similar, and the groups were brought up, some who held the view, others who may have shared the view or had something different, reasons why those 2 groups were mentioned because they were listed. JWI added others of which not related to any of the mentioned Bible Student groups, for it was always assumed others outside of JWs and Bible students viewed 1914 in some light, but not many can bring forth the name of said groups.

Also true, Reslite is the type to constantly profess that he, along with those on his side to be compared to the original Bible Student group. There are other Bible Students who profess the same thing in regards to comparisons to the original, but on the other side of the spectrum, some do not, even to the point they do not wish to be called Russellites because they see it as Sectarian to a degree.

The pastor was indeed different, some would say even unique. Then you have the constant conspiracy people profess about him, hence some of the students, even JWs enact a defense to misinformation.

20 minutes ago, Witness said:

Nice that you linked the conversation.  As you said there, "It is unhealthy to continue with repetitive banter", SM.

Because it is. In that discussion you continuously professed a conspiracy theory as a truth, in that discussion, it was your 3rd attempt in doing so despite the fact your conspiracy was proven to be false.

I even told you in that same discussion, why continue to speak of the UN when you had no idea how they operate and you simply said you do not wish to know. But we see that you continued with the conspiracy soon afterwards.

Again, conspiracy theories at a level similar to Qanon, and their equals, cannot be assumed as truth.

20 minutes ago, Witness said:

Everything will come to light in its own time.  (Matt 10:26)

That verse can be used against you here, not the smartest quotation in regards to the United Nations.

That being said, I have many issues with the UN already, and this is concerning Jaysh Al-Islam, which the United States and their allies had connections to, and a list of things. So being able to see a conspiracy such as in regards to a DPI Status, can easily be seen. Likewise with gun collector JW bunkers.

Once again be careful with conspiracy theories.

• Exodus 23:1 - You shall not spread a false report. You shall not join hands with a wicked man to be a emalicious witness.
• Numbers 32:23 - But if you will not do so, behold, you have sinned against the LORD, and be sure your sin will find you out.
• Proverbs 19:5 - A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will not escape.

28 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

As I'm not Anointed I don't think I can sin against the Holy Spirit. 

People can still sin against the holy spirit, chosen or not.

Jesus gave this warning to those under opposition, for he said that one who sinned against the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven in the current day and or things to come.

A person whom God judged as having sinned against the spirit in would therefore not be in the book of life, no hope for a resurrection, since his sins would never be forgiven.

This is why the best option is to be neutral with some mainly due to the fact of root origin from then to now.

That being said, it is a line between forgivable sin and unforgiveable sin, and not being placed in front of the white throne in regards to judgement.

On 9/25/2021 at 12:57 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Because you put my credibility in question i don't see how story about your "fake" name and picture  and provided explanation should be used in order to continue harassing about where any of the other participants log in and give comments. If you are as serious as you claim, then please stop talking about who is where on other platforms and comment on the topic on this Forum. Stick to the topic if you can. If you can not, then continue with same "song". 

Again, names have reasoning, do not disrespect it by saying a fake name, for if you do not like it, do not speak of it at all.

You are mistaken. You told me directly you had no platform, merely called you out for it, for if it was this of a serious case to you, then you would have shut down the JW teenager who called you Frida several times in the past, even pointing out where he found you, even much later on that same teenager asked you about platforms, yet here your tunes has changed willfully.

I had since stopped talking about platforms, you were the one who continued to bring it up after being exposed.

That being said, in regards to such, if one can be vocal about something, on for instance, Facebook, they can use said platform to educate people on child abuse, and I do not see why the effort isn't made by those who speak of child abuse repetitively. Granted, you brought up awareness in regards to the IICSA.

On 9/25/2021 at 12:57 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

The topics that can be found in this Open Club, are primarily related to JW and that is why I put them. If you consider yourself and act in life more and better than activism or an observer, great. If others can’t be as good as you, then don’t bother them because they can’t achieve your level of standards and performance. Respect others if you want others to respect you. We may disagree about the type of problem and the type of solution and the type of cause for both things. You’re obviously a capable “debater,” but, winning in words doesn’t mean you’re right and others are wrong.

There is nothing to debate about concerning Child Abuse via Sex and or Violence.

These aren't my level of standards, this is in relation to CSA prevention.

The information you provided have guidelines to such things, so as I told you before, the source itself is from CSA prevention, perhaps you should apply what you are proclaiming

On 9/11/2021 at 2:09 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

 

The link provided, which you probably didn't look into, gives numerous guidelines on how to play your part in Child Sex Abuse aside from their investigations. - https://www.iicsa.org.uk/reports-recommendations/publications/investigation/cp-religious-organisations-settings

Surely if you took it seriously, you'd express more on said guidelines on protective measures regarding child sex abuse instead of deviating.

As you can see the IICSA used the Twitter Platform, not only to show awareness, but offer a link to said information of various things regarding child abuse in the United Kingdom, and they are one of several groups, this excludes community efforts.

On 9/25/2021 at 12:57 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

The topics that can be found in this Open Club, are primarily related to JW

Actually you posted a link for the IICSA, it isn't JW focused only, but The United Kingdom itself. Look at your own link.

On 9/25/2021 at 12:57 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

All your successes that you enumerate, we, who read them, cannot confirm or deny. It remains to believe or not to believe. So, be modest in your praises, and glorify others who you think are not as good as you, that is quality. 

I had made known evidence to this in the past, therefore confirmed. even those who were looking for the CSA information I posted here, of which they converted into Spanish because, even in the Latino community, this is problematic.

I do not praise myself nor do I glorify others. I mention because you didn't know as to why I have the name I have now. Do not jumble yourself.

That being said, I encourage you to look at the guidelines of IICSA instead of simply reading a Twitter heading.

You can start with the below concerning Religions in England/Wales:

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/reports-recommendations/publications/investigation/cp-religious-organisations-settings/part-introduction/a2-religion-england-and-wales

8.1 in the introductory references the faith in question.

This is Totalitarian Authoritarianism. We knew it was going to happen, likewise with the situation in France, Canada and Germany.

Under Authoritarianism, expect people to become opportunists and enact crimes. Knowing with what I learned about what is going down a few days ago, things are going to get bad.

On 9/25/2021 at 9:19 AM, Witness said:

I commend you.  You have this remarkable talent of twisting whatever one says or doesn't say, into a lie.  

They're not lies, nor do I twist things, granted me knowing how the enemy operates, that is, the UN, of which you do not know because you made the claim you do not wish to know; being unaware of a lion that is in the weeds. If they were indeed lies, then it would not have stopped you from showing a UN Charter and or Resolution written and or made like all DPI/NGOs. If I recall, you were not able to provide anything the last 2 times it was discussed:

On 11/29/2020 at 4:59 PM, Space Merchant said:

If there is no Charter and or Resolution (something that majority of NGOs have) then the claim is nothing but a whistle in the wind, as you, have been corrected on this already. To resurrect the dead in terms of the current discussion, isn't good for anyone's health, unless you are trying to undermine newcomers on this platform.

On 12/5/2020 at 8:25 PM, Space Merchant said:

And yet another day, no charter was brought up, nor was there a Resolution... Just like last time.

A lesson proven if you lack the understanding of the United Nations or NGO DPI, best not to adhere to claims and commit it to as a truth.

As I told you before, a DPI status only with no Resolution and or Charter isn't part of the UN. There are steps and approvals.

Therefore, you professed a lie in regards to the United Nations and it's inner workings. You also had no idea what ECOSOC was.

You never dealt with anything UN related, therefore, you using a conspiracy to justify a truth is, in of itself, a lie, therefore, my hatred for the UN does not even enable me to twist things, let alone culture, as mentioned to you before.

That being said, best to stay your blade regarding the United Nations because all it will take is one quote.

For someone who is Christian to ignore something hidden in the weeds and tall grass, only makes you a target, like all MSCs, such as yourself.

On 8/25/2021 at 8:26 AM, NoisySrecko said:

There is a parallel with the Bible Student history chart that is relevant for this discussion that does not align with some opinions here as well.

On 8/25/2021 at 8:26 AM, NoisySrecko said:

I just thought this correction should be included here. Not everything written in WIKI should be considered factual.

I believe this was addressed in another forums.

I didn't use the wiki. More so, there are a few connections that I know of who are Bible Students, mainly the neutral ones like Reslite.

That being said, those 2 Bible groups of which you quoted from my command, are still existing, but have minor activity, some of their members, although not organized, are lone Bible Students - Hence my remarks.

EDIT:

Just realized I made a response to you already.

As for Wiki, it is a mixed bag of apples in of itself. Some information true, others not. What people do not may attention to is the citations. Other then that, it is best to look for the actual source instead of a wiki. This may be unknown to you, but wiki has been manipulating information for the past several months now.

On 9/25/2021 at 7:22 AM, JW Insider said:

I think I just happened to run across another post like the one you were speaking about above.

https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/61369/was-the-1914-prophecy-derived-from-the-book-of-daniel-ever-mentioned-in-any-ne/81433

The responder to that question was @1982 and he also came up with nothing prior to 1914 by anyone except from those comments related to the WT.

Of course, there is still the question of the unnamed Canadian minister that C T Russell referred to in 1914. I haven't looked yet for more information about him. It may be that this was just one of those cases of someone declaring that "the end is nigh" and "it's going to happen before the end of this year or next at the latest."

Something like that was always happening somewhere for the majority of years after 1844. Probably, something like that is still happening somewhere in the world nearly every year, even now. This very forum gives evidence of that.

Yep, and I had sent this before. Around that time there was another person who spoke about 1914, but had his own blog post who went by the name Reslite. Reslite is most likely still a Bible Student, and stated to have studied Pastor Russell for many years. He at times, blames JWs for things, but often finds himself defending Russell from ExJWs. Ironically enough if you catch him at a good time, he is willing to speak to anyone regardless of their faith. As with the mention Reslite, who he himself talked about 1914.

So far, it isn't always easy to find his information, he might know something, probably some info on the Canadian Minister.

The below is one of his comments, but similar.

Quote

The following is the text of the article that appeared in The Bible Students Monthly, January, 1914, issue. Written by Charles Taze Russell, the article relates his viewpoint concerning "the end of the world," and how he was "not" expecting the "end of the world" in 1914. Indeed, the article further shows that Russell was not expecting the second coming of Jesus in 1914, as some have claimed.

Nevertheless, some have quoted the large bold headline out its context, which reads "End of World in 1914," and claimed that Russell was preaching that the world would end in 1914. In fact, the smaller bold headline underneath the large headline continues by saying, "Not the View of Pastor Russell or of I.B.S.A." Thus, in fact, the tract denies that Brother Russell was expecting "the end of the world" in 1914.

5 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

No, SM. Quotation i put is from link you provided and i navigate further to Final Report to Particular Institution to Religious Institution and to particular religion Jehovah's Witnesses, which are all under heading Summary.   

Seems you cannot bear of what is being asked of you. Did you bother to check the cases, or the exhibits? No? Not yet still? Why? I mean, if you posted that video but can't bring what was mentioned in a response to said video, clearly something is being ignored. The information you put is technically the introductory to Jehovah's Witnesses on ARC. Surely you can do better than that.

I linked you ARC for a reason, if I had asked you for an introductory, I would have asked.

So I wait until to speak on what was asked of you pervious concerning Child Abuse among Jehovah's Witnesses from a couple years back.

That being said, IICSA has an interest P.O.I, as mentioned. This is why I mentioned Status. Concerning CSA people of Status are not really pressed on.

16 hours ago, xero said:

The presumption of RTFM as the core issue has many aspects.

1. The person hasn't read it (they may in fact have)

2. The FM may in fact be wrong in its assertions about its products. (Oracle corporation is notorious for this)

3. The FM may be poorly written. (by people who don't know the language they are trying to use)

In any case anyone who has questions, whether these questions seem basic or not deserves to have a specific response. It doesn't have to be RTFM. It could be see chapter X in the FM and on page XX paragraph X you should find what you're looking for. (most FM's are 600-800 pages). If it's your job to field these kinds of things you might have something like reasoning book w/the index "scriptures often misapplied". (in the case of biblical issues)

Bottom line: A specific question deserves a specific answer. "RTFM" is by definition not specific any more than someone looking down their noses at you from a stack of unquoted and unpacked scriptures.

Exactly, and I deal with this person to call her bluff. To this day, I haven't seen a JW church with weapon bunkers in their basement. I haven't seen a charter/registration singing regarding the UN. I haven't see any Bible Information on churches existing in Ancient Israel, let alone a leader of the opposite sex who holds religious office. Even when you correct such one, they go around with something else. When you give a question, they do not answer it, and go around it, and when you tell them the truth, such one quickly turns into a feminist and calls you by assumption misogynistic for quoting Paul, and not putting a capital "W" for women.

Sometimes you wonder how lost such one is. So in that regards, I call them out on the misinformation and conspiracy.

That being said, you won't get an direct answer for a very long time, and the latter prays that people do not remember what you said to them.

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

He is an interesting character. I presenting myself with real name (some would say that is a risk, because bad people can use photo and name for evil purpose) on this Forum and elsewhere if i leave comment or put "like".

Whether you use your real name or not, people can find you via IP and or otherwise. Your picture can also be used by others and or ads, even the degusting ones, granted some people's pictures were used, adults and children for nefarious things, I've already mentioned the Dark Web.

You can only sort of escape that with your security is good.

Regardless, if you have the ability to log in and make a comment, like/dislike something, you are tied to a platform via device, email, IP, etc.

You can't post here, in this specific thread as a guest. That isn't out forums work and Admin made that clear, although I mentioned him, I didn't quote him.

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

He have idea how visiting internet places, let say 1, 5 or 35 of millions that exists, means how person is "all over the place".

I don't know if you are saying something that is concise, or you stumbled upon your words and lost all sense.

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Perhaps, guess internet only, and not all over geographic places, all over time places/points, or all over parallel universe, or in some third space-time reality.

What does the Internet have to do with parallel universes and "3rd space-time reality"?

You aren't making a whole lot of sense, perhaps to avoid talking about the cases in ARC. Understandable because you clearly take CSA seriously, as always on this forum, this is why I pointed out if you knew Red Flags but you did not, so you wouldn't be good at detecting abuse.

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

On contrary he representing himself with false name and an icon/figure that is strange.

Such is strange to a man who shows ignorance and dances in his own folly. On the contrary, all names and pictures have a meaning behind it, you were told this, Butler was told this, but I guess the strawberry cake that is placed at the Tableau des anges déchus is too good for the both of you.

The name "Space Merchant" with a "Storm Trooper" picture has a reasoning by behind it, as I always allauded to it, even mentioned it briefly.

Marchand de l'espace (Space Merchant)  derives from short stories of my mother when she was in her country, Haiti. She was a fan of super heroes as a child, and she created a name for herself, Space Merchant, which she made from a mix from her interest in The Green Lantern and Space Ghost since that and JSA was usually aired in Haiti to those who had access to a Television, created her own hero name. She  did this in order to not think about the badness, the killings, even threats of practitioners of Black Magic (Voudou) to her and others; this mentality helped her to stay sane because being in constant fear can take toll on people, thus assuming herself to be like that of a hero of some kind, and she, even as a child back then, helped people her age and, culturally older ones, while being pressed with all that stuff around her, as with her nearly losing her life a few times, granted, those of Black Magic often go for children and teenagers for their blood, that is why some are superstition and or do not give/take blood, the old generation and some of the new, onward today. So I take up that name, Space Merchant aside from what I am originally called BSGT_ Jean-Baptiste or simply Steph. I was even told it would be good to take up that name since I mentioned the story elsewhere. I referred to myself as Space Merchant prior to joining CSE whereas I was already an avid preacher of the gospel, as with being quite logical, and this earned me a lot in the debate space at CSE and in public. In the Truther community, although I am called SM there, people who are aware of me call me Space Merchant.

On 10/1/2018 at 12:33 PM, Space Merchant said:

The name Space Merchant comes from short stories my mother made when she was a child, and I figured, the name was not taken here so I reside with it.

I told Butler this already a while back in regards to this but was brief about it after he attempt to joke about why my name is such, mocked it even. The lost soul does not know when it comes to some people, even Islanders, there is a name behind everything and there is a reason as to why people choose or have such names, be it a title name, alias, etc. Unfortunately  some folks in the United Kingdom are unaware of this or being hypocritical, granted their history.

Like she did to help others, I do the same, hence why I have been involved with children, and helped out elsewhere.

Storm Trooper picture derives from 2 things. A child who I knew who liked Star Wars, his parents were Star Wars fans themselves, to this day (however not open about it as much because they lost their son). The child was an only child (their only child) and because of his interest in Star Wars, he drew the characters from it a lot, and favored Storm Troopers, he even called me a Storm Trooper. Unfortunately, this child passed away despite being a few months away from the being age 11, and what took his life was an infection, the Flu, for young children are more at risk for the Flu. Although he sleeps in death, and God through Christ Jesus will raise him soon, every since then I maintain a Storm Trooper picture everywhere, and it seems it is suitable for my name, more so, it is a constant reminder for that child, this is the reason I am not the type to forget things and often bring them up; granted as people age, they lost their memory in some cases.

The other part of that originated with the picture is the fact I was called a Biblical Storm Trooper. This was when I was debating a lot, so much so, I can recall most of my debates, even my early ones when I was a newbie in the debate space, this is also what led me to many things connected to other people, The Speaker's Corner in London, Kel, UK Truthers, The Restorationists, Ezekiel the Goldfish (Sunrise Ezekiel), Kathgar The Arabic JW who survived a terror attack, The late [who some alleged to have disappeared] Souja of God (anointed), FAKT Russia, Steven Gern, Venti, The Truther Community, as is with those who are Anti-Agenda (dislike for opposition groups), etc.

The Bible knowledge came from my Father of course, as is principle, the very reason I call out falsehood, aside from being a Truther.

Although not mentioned, The Islander part should be obvious, my culture derives from it, mainly due to the fact we were Scripture heavy. This also led to my growing in knowledge at a very young age, even baptized at the island. As I grew, I saw first hand what sin can do to a man, for I mentioned my brother who got himself addicted to pornography, as is with a late friend of mine, who was persuaded to do pornographic films and eventually she took her life after what the adult industry and the bullying that followed; this resulted in groups like Anonymous going after cyber bullies, including the one regarding my late friend.

On 10/1/2018 at 12:33 PM, Space Merchant said:

And there is a reason as to why I use the Storm Trooper image and what I have been called by the late young one who loved Storm Troopers, the very reason I maintain this avatar. I am actually an islander, for my own culture and background is entrenched in the islands itself, I am refereed to as a Biblical Storm Trooper because of my Biblical studies and this young one knowing how I am seeking all kinds of knowledge regarding God, I am referred to as such, hence his word sits in my memory and very soon I will see this young one again when he is resurrected by the Christ by means of God.

At least I am aware that there is a reasoning behind everything, even names. This is why I called you a pretender. St least now this time you learn; compared to the latter who knows who he is, and pretends he is not said person because he fears the admin when many people called him out.

You can mock all you want the name and picture, but the fact there is reasoning behind such, the name even the picture itself, I hold true to those convictions, and that is why I am how I am, even I speak like I do in this manner to people, mainly when it comes to call their bluff, as I did to you, as is, I don't flinch to people, even former JWs on the dark side of the moon.

Kind of hypocritical to attest to Child Abuse Awareness if this is how you act and response, for if the thread was in regards to such, you didn't have to do all that shoehorning.

As I told @ApostaBabe Linda James the story of Sarah, I hope this time you remember her name (for the mugshot of the pedophile should have been recognizable to someone who us posting about CSA in the UK). Therefore, choose your next response carefully, for, if you can't talk about CSA to drive interest in conversation and or additional solutions, they you simply made this thread for no reason.

That being said, as are my convictions, unlike you, I am very serious about CSA, so much so, I believe I was among the few who spoke about CSA on a grounded level form of discussion, a couple times actually.

11 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

It seems as if Truthers, or at least one Truther,  should be called a Snooper 

definition of snoopers by The Free Dictionary

Snoopers for what? He lied, and he was corrected. But it seems now you ignore the lie.

That being said, it didn't stop you and the latter from doing the exact same thing, calling things of this nature out.

And please, to insult one is a hit on many, do not insult the Truther Community, for them, even in the UK, they've been doing a lot concerning CSA, they knew the story of Sarah, and you, living there, being born there, I find it surprising you didn't know her story since you said it yourself, you are focusing on CSA in United Kingdom.

Ironic how I know more of the UK's innerworkings, but you do not, likewise with the situation that IICSA had with Teresa May.

11 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I didn't know @Space Merchant was so bored that he spent his time snooping on people's internet activity. 

I don't snoop, platform remark was a lie, simply called it out. @Srecko Sostar lied twice actually.

A man of God you claim to be, but when one of your own lies, you see no reason to speak. Therefore, you proved my point.

11 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Maybe I have to confess that i have around five Facebook pages. One is directed at Leaving the JW Org. 

I may even have a Youtube account but i would think it is inactive.

You said you used Facebook and YouTube, so that is not unknown to me or anyone else. None of you are doing anything about CSA in regards to helping child via platforms, and that can be seen.

Likewise, you are among many who do not realize pedophiles access such platforms, some people stamp them out. Twitter is an interesting one because we found something in relation to your camp.

11 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I do see FB as a 'platform' of sorts and it is very useful to use to 'Preach the Good News of the Kingdom' whilst remaining outside of the JW domination.

Facebook is indeed a platform... If it is this useful as you claim, what is stopping you from discussing child sex and violence abuse on a grounded discussion?

That gang you mentioned before who stop child abuse, they do this to an extent to, what is stopping you, or perhaps the JW teen was right about you and Srecko.

11 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

It's nice to be able to tell people that we ARE in the Last Days, without having to put silly dates or years on it.

But you shy away from discussion child abuse yet you whine about it here with no positive resolve.

11 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

It's nice to be albe to show people that a Christian can be balanced. 

But you defended someone lying regarding platforms. How is that Christian? Cherry picking the trees, are you?

That being said, this alone shows that the both of you are not serious at all when it comes to child sex abuse. You prove my point many, many times whenever CSA it brought up.

Some of those gang bikers are Truthers as well, hence their connection to BACA. I will gladly see their reaction to how some people claim they are serious about CSA... Because this can be seen here.

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Wrong choice of words. Yes, i am Member in this Club.  If I want to leave a comment in this club or on some other page, then it is logical that I have to log in. Does that make me a “member” who swears allegiance?  If you do not want to loosen your perseverance, feel free to continue in the same scenario. I don’t mind if people want to see where I left a comment or tagged a video with “like”.

Guests cannot comment in this club, you logged in using a email. It was not a poor choice of words. The fact you can leave a comment, in your name, with a profile, also proves hit as fact.

And? you still have an account on this forums.

Nice try tap dancing over that, and clearly it did not work.

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Perhaps you have some sort of a OCD in this matter (as in Glasgow case too), as our other member of this club, Arauna, would say. Waiting for your (long) response. 

I do not care about OCD, I care about people stating misinformation as a truth, which you did.

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

One of our case studies examined the responses of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation to allegations of child sexual abuse. We also held an institutional review hearing to provide an opportunity for the Jehovah’s Witness organisation to inform us of its current policies and procedures in relation to child protection and child safe standards, including responding to allegations of child sexual abuse.

As of 31 May 2017, of the 4,029 survivors who told us during private sessions about child sexual abuse in religious institutions, 70 survivors told us about abuse in the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Of the victims we heard about, 80.0 per cent were female. The average age of victims at the time of first abuse was 8.4 years. Of the 53 survivors who told us about the age of the person who sexually abused them, 44 survivors (83.0 per cent) told us about abuse by an adult and 12 survivors (22.6 per cent) told us about abuse by a child. A small number of survivors told us about sexual abuse by an adult and by a child. The vast majority of survivors who told us about abuse by an adult perpetrator said they were abused by a male adult.

Of the 65 survivors who told us during private sessions about the role of a perpetrator, 26.2 per cent told us about child sexual abuse by family members. This was considered to be within our Terms of Reference when the sexual abuse was reported to and handled by the religious institution. We also heard from survivors about other perpetrators including volunteers (13.8 per cent), lay leaders (9.2 per cent) and other adults who attended the religious institution (9.2 per cent).

As part of our case study, the Jehovah’s Witness organisation provided us with files containing allegations, reports or complaints of child sexual abuse. They provided us with documents relating to at least 1,800 children and over 1,000 alleged perpetrators.

Institutional responses to child sexual abuse in the Jehovah’s Witnesses

Our case study regarding the Jehovah’s Witnesses showed that the organisation dealt with allegations of child sexual abuse in accordance with internal, scripturally based disciplinary policies and procedures. We found that at least until 1998, individuals making complaints of child sexual abuse were required to state their allegations in the presence of the person against whom the allegations were made. The ‘two-witness’ rule applied – that is, wrongdoing could only be established on the basis of testimony from two or more ‘credible’ eyewitnesses to the same incident (or strong circumstantial evidence testified to by at least two witnesses or testimony of two witnesses to the same kind of wrongdoing). Allegations were investigated by elders, all of whom were men and had no relevant training.

We found that in deciding the sanctions to impose and/or the precautions to take in relation to a known or suspected perpetrator of child sexual abuse, the Jehovah’s Witness organisation had inadequate regard for the risk that the person might reoffend. Alleged perpetrators of child sexual abuse who were removed from their congregations as a result of allegations of child sexual abuse were frequently reinstated. We found no evidence of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation reporting allegations of child sexual abuse to police or other civil authorities.

During our case study we heard from survivors of child sexual abuse that they were not provided with adequate information by the Jehovah’s Witness organisation about the investigation of their allegations, felt unsupported by the elders who handled the allegations, and felt that the investigation process was a test of their credibility rather than that of the alleged perpetrator. We also heard that victims of child sexual abuse were told by congregational elders not to discuss the abuse with others, and that if they tried to leave the organisation, they were ‘shunned’ or ostracised from their religious community.

Contributing factors in the Jehovah’s Witnesses

We considered a number of factors that may have contributed to the occurrence of child sexual abuse in the Jehovah’s Witnesses or to inadequate institutional responses to such abuse.

The Jehovah’s Witness organisation addresses child sexual abuse in accordance with scriptural direction, relying on a literal interpretation of the Bible and 1^st century principles to set practice, policy and procedure. These include the ‘two-witness’ rule as discussed, as well as the principle of ‘male headship’ (that men hold positions of authority in congregations and headship in the family). Scripturally, only men can make decisions. Other scripture-based policies include the sanctions of reproval (a form of discipline that allows a perpetrator to remain in the congregation), disfellowshipping (exclusion or excommunication as a form of punishment for serious scriptural wrongdoing), and shunning (an instruction to the congregation not to associate with a disfellowshipped person). As long as the Jehovah’s Witness organisation continues to apply these practices in its response to allegations of child sexual abuse, it will remain an organisation that does not respond adequately to child sexual abuse and that fails to protect children.

We recommend that the Jehovah’s Witness organisation abandon its application of the two-witness rule in cases involving complaints of child sexual abuse (Recommendation 16.27), revise its policies so that women are involved in processes relating to investigating and determining allegations of child sexual abuse (Recommendation 16.28), and no longer require its members to shun those who disassociate from the organisation in cases where the reason for disassociation is related to a person being a victim of child sexual abuse (Recommendation 16.29).

We welcome the inclusion in the recently published Child safeguarding policy of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Australia of a requirement to report child sexual abuse to civil authorities in cases where elders consider that a child may still be at risk of harm. The Jehovah’s Witness organisation should also amend all of its policies and procedures relating to child sexual abuse to ensure that this requirement is included.

And yet you continue to avoid the case studies, the question is why? What you referenced is the opening, but you, like the guy in the video, avoid speaking about the case studies, the reason is already known.

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Which of these was posted on the WTJWorg official site for JW members to read? Did they post a link like you did at this club?

I already made comment to that regarding posting on official sites. Some JWs posted several links in this club in regards to discussion, even JWI had something to say.

They have actually, ARC was talked about several times here by others, specifically @Anna and @JW Insider. In Anna's case, she checked you "hard" several times, and to this day you do not even realized you were corrected, similarly to how The Black Knight in the film Monty Python and the Holy Grail, who didn't realize how bad his injury is.

That being said, I ask again, there was a specific note in the case studies I adhered to before you started to tap dance. Why ignore it?

Also, among all faith institutions who had CSA issues and were in ARC, the JWs were pretty low. If I remember correctly, out of all institutions/clubs, the Catholic Church was the highest, mainly due to the fact they have a large presence in Australia.

8 hours ago, xero said:

Take tech forums, for example. The snarky response to a technical question is RTFM. Quoting a series of scriptures is the biblical equivalent as regards snark.

Granted I am in IT, I can tell you some, not all, people purposely sound technical in the IT field to [A] show off to employers and vendors and or others and or [B] Make a client feel like they do not know anything.

No one RTFM apparently, resulting in them getting into problems, mainly when dealing with specifics in servers.

That is also true for some. People tend to quote a verse and or passage out of context and or without context, other times, they will sacrifice the context itself, be it from a verse and or passage to prove a point or a non core kidology or remark; not giving straight answers or pretending to not even read what you say, a tactics often used by MSCs and or Trinitarians.

Your comment also reminds me, as of right now, a debate I am in with a Trinitarian Christian who claims the following:

1. Catholics came before Christians therefore all Bishops were Catholics.

2. Attempt to say Easter has no pagan origins

3. Justifying that Jesus is God by quoting a small passage from Thayer's Lexicon to prove Jesus is YHWH via Joel 2:32, Acts 7:59, 60, Acts 2:21 and Roman 10:9-13.

All this because he is misusing Scripture and relying on a small note from Thayer and BDAG 3rd edition, and being snarky about it at the same time.