Space Merchant

On 9/9/2021 at 12:25 PM, Witness said:

You believe there is no depth to the meaning of God's word, that Assyria, the "son of destruction" and its demise, cannot be projected to the father of destruction, Satan himself?

Never brought forth belief, just elementary Hermeneutics to refute your exegesis.

Also never said the Assyrians were Satan. In the Book of Isaiah, the Prophet referred to the Assyrians, their leader being the Neo-Assyrian Empire named Sennacherib son of Sargon II,  as a Destroyer in his proclamation (he mentioned 2, one of them being Assyrian Empire), the 2nd Destroyer is the messenger, otherwise known as The Angel of Death, who destroyed 185,000 Assyrian Soldiers overnight, effectively defending King Hezekiah and the people of his Kingdom. The aftermath was that Sennacherib fled, returning to his Kingdom, however, he wasn't King for long, he was later, he was killed by the sword at the age of 64 in Nineveh, Iraq (681 BC) by his two sons, Adrammelech and Sharezer (2 Ki. 19:37; 2Ch. 32:21; Isa. 37:37, 38,although Some believe Arda-Mulissu (Arda-Mulishshi), his other son, assassinated him due to the Mesopotamian documents however, the Bible is clear on who executed the assassination, moreover, he did become King but was replaced by Esarhaddon, his his brother, who took power and held reign after the assassination/death of the Assyrian King (2 Kings 19:36, 37).

You stated the Destroyer mentioned by Isaiah is Satan, we can see that in your quote. Therefore, you were incorrect. Also going as far as to, going back to the other thread, thought both Destroyers were Satan.

I suggest you pay attention to the chapter itself and not make assumptions.

On 9/9/2021 at 12:25 PM, Witness said:

Jesus comes to "destroy" death - destruction, ruination, and the father of death - the Destroyer. 1 Cor 15:26  He has conquered death, and he will put an end to the destroyer through the condemnation of God's word, which is like "fire".  Jer 23:29; Rev 20:10

Destroyer is never mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:26. It says Destroy. Jesus won't be the one destroying death, the references shows, his God, your Father, my Father, will be the one to do it, as shown here - 1 Corinthians 15:54-57.

Jesus indeed conquered death, so why is this relevant to the pervious verse? Remember, he is the Firstborn out of the Death, I suggest you know what that entails.

Both Jeremiah 23:29 and Revelation 20:10 no connection or even correlates with the pervious verse. For what God did afterwards in Jeremiah's Day and Satan's imprisonment has nothing to do with death being destroyed.

Again, Jesus will not come to destroy death, the Bible says God will do so, continue to read chapter 15 because clearly you missed that part.

On 9/9/2021 at 12:25 PM, Witness said:

Isa 33:1 - "Woe to thee that spoilest, and thou wast not spoiled; and dealest treacherously, and they dealt not treacherously with thee! when thou shalt cease to spoil, thou shalt be spoiled; and when thou shalt make an end to deal treacherously, they shall deal treacherously with thee."

That's the Assyrians, not Satan, which you claimed previously. Read the chapter. - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah 33&version=ESV

On 9/9/2021 at 12:25 PM, Witness said:

"spoilest" - to ravage:—dead, destroy(-er), oppress, robber, spoil(-er), × utterly, (lay) waste.

So can you show me a verse where Satan himself  (mentioned by name) laid waste to the surrounding cities and villages in that day?

Also please, do not add narratives to the verse to violate it, it is a disrespect to Scripture.

That being said, really? The Textus Receptus you are using? Only the TR uses the term spoilest.

On 9/9/2021 at 12:25 PM, Witness said:

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" 1 Pet 5:8

What does this have to do with the near destruction of Judah? Irrelevant.

More so, this verse contradicts your claims of Exodus 12.

On 9/9/2021 at 12:25 PM, Witness said:

"devour" - "drink down, swallow down/up, destroy"

And your point?  Nothing to do with the destruction of neighboring cities/villages and near Destruction of Judah, unless you can show me a verse that the events mentioned Satan by name.

On 9/9/2021 at 12:25 PM, Witness said:

And what did Jesus say the "robber" did?

"The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly."  John 10:10

Stating the obvious, so can you show us the verse Satan played the destruction of the cities and villages prior to the Kingdom of Judah?

On 9/9/2021 at 12:25 PM, Witness said:

Judas Iscariot was the "son of destruction", the "man of lawlessness", a thief and a killer, just like his father.  

Stating yet another obvious thing.

As we can see, you deviate from the focused verses purposely to evade questioning, reasons why you can't defend your older comments.

That being said, not the best idea to use the KJV after the remarks you made about the spurious passage.

On 9/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, Witness said:

Who do you defend, you and all JWs with you -  the one who brings life, or the one who causes ruin?

The Bible of course, therefore you ignoring context and marginal references is in fact jarring. In this Endemic situation (granted the powers that be are afraid to call it that) doing otherwise is very misleading.

In regards to Exodus, God sent someone under shaliach principle, no demon or even the Devil can commit to shaliach principle.

That being said, God is capable of taking justice even among the people, we seen this time and time again in the Bible.

On 9/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, Witness said:

Exod 12:23 – “When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.”

You essentially shot yourself in the foot.

On 9/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, Witness said:

The word for “destroyer” here, means “to corrupt, go to ruin, decay, pervert, to be rotted”.  This is exactly the opposite of what salvation (saving one’s life) in Jesus Christ who came from the Father, offers us. God’s Spirit in the Son, is the breath of LIFE.

Are you adding to the word or are you going by Strong's?

Nothing in Strong's # 7843 usage in that specific verse indicates decay, pervert, or rot.

Evidence here if you know what usages/roots are can be seen here:

 https://biblehub.com/hebrew/strongs_7843.htm

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h7843/esv/wlc/0-1/

Although Exodus 12:23 says Destroyer, remember, there is a ROOT in the verse itself, which from there, begets usage. One of the reasons why in connection to Destroyer, in that verse, it points to Numbers 33:4, which reads [while the Egyptians were burying all their firstborn, whom the LORD had struck down among them. On their gods also the LORD executed judgments.]

We know God himself does not come down, rather, sent a messenger, reasons why the Hebraic usage of is used here whenever LORD and or Most High, God of Israel, God, is used, shaliach principle is presented.

Everyone knows nowhere in Scripture the Devil isn't the LORD, and to credit some, even JWs, LORD in all caps is YHWH, meaning either of the modern renderings - Yahweh, Yehovah, Jehovah.

On 9/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, Witness said:

“The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.”  John 6:63

We're talking about Israelites and Assyrians concerning the focused verses, of which you are dodging once again. The verse cited is irrelevant here.

Sennacherib, King of the Neo-Assyrian Empire, isn't a man of God by the way, reasons why the Assyrians formed the Prism to mock both God and Hezekiah, and for the reason? 185,000 slain by a messenger of God. In short, they cannot take a loss so they fabricate a narrative.

On 9/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, Witness said:

When God removes His protective spirit, the Destroyer steps in. He abandons us to the wicked choices we make.

Yet Satan is nowhere to be found in said situation of which you claimed. You said this concerning Exodus 12:23, but the verse tells us the LORD took action, nowhere is Devil, Deceiver and or Satan is mentioned. More so, the 10 plagues came forth because of the Pharaoh not wanting to let God's people go. Satan himself is strong hatred for God's people, seeking to devour them, if he was there during the time Moses was alive attempting to get God's people out of Egypt, the opposite would happen - Satan would personally go after God's people (ignoring the lamb's blood), avoiding the Egyptians because they were the ones to suppress the Israelites, Moses, and the Israelites would effective never would leave Egypt and or cannot escape from it. Although God would bring forth an alternative to aid Moses prior to Satan commiting any heavy damage. Should Satan use all Egyptian warriors to go after and kill Israelites, men, women and child, God would intervene - anyways, that is simply a what if type scenario.

On 9/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, Witness said:

1 Cor 10 - 

“But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. ⁷ And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” ⁸ Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; ⁹ nor let us test Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; ¹⁰ nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. ¹¹ Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.”

As I've brought out, the meaning of destroyer in verse 10 is, “a ruiner, a venomous serpent”. 

Ok, concerning Paul's warning for murmuring, then show me, God is Witness, the verse that that says the destroyer is Satan, who was it that sent the Snakes to the Israelites for murmuring/complaining, also who was it that dealt with Korah, his allies and his household?

On 9/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, Witness said:

And as I have mentioned, we’re all aware of who the “venomous serpent” refers to.  (Gen 3:1)  Both Exod 12:23 and 1 Cor 10:10 show that the destroyer, the “ruiner”, in these accounts refer to Satan.

Genesis 3:1 has no connection to Exodus 12:23 and 1 Corinthians 10:10.

The events of the Garden of Eden do not correlate with the events of Egypt and the situation that took place in the Church of Corinth. Therefore you are mixing verses because the snakes mention in the focused verses has snakes (plural) not snake.

We know Satan is a Snake, but not every verse in the Bible that shows Snake equates to Satan.

That being said, concerning Paul's warning, what essentially destroyed the Israelites for murmuring and who sent them?

On 9/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, Witness said:

“Then Jesus said to them again, “Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. ⁸ All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. ⁹ I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. ¹⁰ The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.”  John 10:7-10

Irrelevant to the focused verses and you misusing Strong's. So let me guess, is God's Day, which will come like a thief in the night, also problematic to you?

Also Destroy here isn't like the other 2 Strong's, it is G#622 used in John 10:10. It is also a 3P Singular.

On 9/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, Witness said:

Through deceit, the Destroyer and his ministers, have successfully convince millions of JWs throughout the years, that the Father and His Son are the destroyers of life. And, with great success, Satan has led God’s people into idolatry once again through their idol, "Jehovah's organization".  (2 Cor 11:4,13-15)  

We're talking about the focused verses, attempting to hold the hand of Jehovah's Witnesses to evade said verses is silly, granted we are not talking about them at this moment. You were called out on this before when you claimed the Christian Church that follow God's Order is somehow unisex when it comes to religious office, both you and Pearl, who preach this when Apostle Paul said things differently.

On 9/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, Witness said:

Jesus does not carry both the spirit of destruction and ruin, and the spirit of life.  That is what Paul warned us that would happen - "another Jesus" is being taught by you and the Wt. 

The Watchtower is irrelevant to what is being talked about. And to correct you, Jesus is a King, and we already know what he will do concerning the good and those who are wicked on God's Day. If I remember correctly, you watered down Jesus' Kingship before regarding this.

On 9/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, Witness said:

Just wonderful, isn't it?  It is called, "confusion (by mixing)"  the  meaning of "Babylon", and it is described in Isa 5:20 - 

So what made you assume concerning that Satan played a role in destroying the Assyrian Army?

On 9/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, Witness said:

You can worship a God and His Son that brings life that they have created, to ruin, if you like, but I will not.   

So what happens to the wicked on God's Day? Mainly those who not only kill God's people, but mock, and bash, incite hatred towards God? I already know you do not believe in Hell Fire Torment.

As a Bonus, what happened to everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah? Clearly they didn't survive because of the incoming punishment.

That being said, you say this, so I 100% already know you ignore some verses to, namely Psalm 94:23.

On 9/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, Witness said:

I choose to be on the side of life.  

As with everyone else, however, they don't ignore or cherry pick what is written.

To this day you never gave a clear verse of you stating in the New Testament that Chloe is a church leader of the Corinth Congregation. Isn't that deceit?

On 9/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, Witness said:

Deceit is darkness and death and destruction and ruination...and it is Satan's playground. 

So the questions below shouldn't be that hard.

• Ok so what happened to the Israelites and who sent the snakes to them for murmuring?
• What took out the Assyrian Army?
• What will happen to the wicked, and how Jesus will take action under God's Will.
• What happens to all Demons under Judgement (Reversed for Judgment)?

On 9/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, Witness said:

That appears where your belief that God and Jesus are the destroyers, lies. 

This has nothing to do with belief. This is Hermeneutics vs. Exegesis.

It is your belief in God that is twisted, in correlation with your fear of JWs to the point you believe they have weapons in every one of their churches. MSC always have such mindsets, broken and cannot even attest to 2 Timothy 3:16.

As for lies, if you lie about Strong's you can easily get called out for it. As is with marginal references.

On 9/9/2021 at 10:54 AM, Witness said:

What a dangerous pit to be in , when the giver of life returns.  

Actually, Mainstream Christianity is the problem. The more blinded they become, the more problematic they will be when Babylon comes running in by means of higher powers such as LT, The UN, etc. This is why Authoritianism will spark a huge danger for many people who are unaware. We saw this throughout the years, even prior to the Twin Towers falling, we also saw this in Washington and elsewhere. Any falsehood or conspiracy pushes a lost soul into a broken mindset effectively becoming a tool of Babylon, which you displayed yourself to be by brining up past conspiracies that aren't true. Therefore, a good chuck for former Jehovah's Witnesses who succumb to the MSC mantra, are going to be tools of danger for many - London was already an example in the UK.

11 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

They’re not gnostic. They have no special secret source of knowledge. However, the Bible itself speaks to them in a way in does not speak to most. That’s not gnostic, but it leans a little that way.

Exactly however, when religious opponents see something they can make a comparison to, they're quick to equate things, this seems to be the case concerning this Mediterranean rooted faith in question. This is usually professed by a majority of Trinitarians, which is not surprising because OP is one himself.

That being said, among all Anti-Trinitarian faiths, Gnostics have hatred for JWs, especially in the EU. This is why in London a lot of them often seek debate with JWs a while back, other times they use whatever information to attack them, and seeing that most media do not like Christianity or the Bible if it is not in their view, Gnostics who go on this warpath will weaponize whatever they can find.

Among some, people need to be careful with Gnostics, often times they are tricky to deal with.

On 8/22/2021 at 10:52 PM, Witness said:

Of course no one in their right mind would say that.  This statement shows what a liar you are. I never would say such a thing.  You can't be trusted, SM.  

And how is it I can't be trusted because you assume Satan was in Egypt?

Yes, no one in their right mind, but your own statements say otherwise, as pointed out. You did the same with Isaiah 33:1, and now 1 Corinthians 10:6-10.

I need not say much, the fact you purposely ignored your own words says otherwise - evident because not once you made a comment on your own quotes. What is next, you are going to say that you never alluded to New Ageism when you said individual will become both human and angel despite the quotation of you saying it is present? This is what happens when you go about your own exegesis, it only spells disaster for you, as is with mixing verses. There is a reason as to why no one wants to make comment on your quotes.

As I told you before, like I tell everyone exposed for being an MSC, you are misguided, and the fact you are for a former JW, proves the narrative spoken of by many in CSE and outside of it. MSC folk are no different from each other.

Go to your Bible and pay attention to the references because if you didn't know about the Bronze Serpent, let alone the Passover, this only means you need to do your own DD in Biblical study and research.

That being said, if you speak of trust, I can easily quote you on an older remark, one you do not want to hear, so scabbard yourself on that. A better response would be the application of 1 John 4:1, yet, that is unknown to you.

On 9/2/2021 at 10:37 PM, TheWorldNewsOrg said:

source https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-23/how-will-south-australias-home-quarantine-trial-work/100398878

 

You have my utmost respect for bringing up this known Truther. I have met Luke Rudkowski before back in 2016, he got information from the people of my mother's country exposing what the US has been doing via siphoning resources, video of this linked. Those who worked with him were the reason I got involved with the Truther community to begin with when I aided with pressing matters.

That being said, for a few years now we've been trying to keep We Are Change alive, so far, YouTube has not stopped us yet.

And this is what I have been saying for years concerning Authoritarianism. When it hits the US, the United Nations will have their role to play for the 3rd time, granted Babylon is already doing it's thing.

Satanism has also increase in the Australia too, so 1984 like situations can be crazy.

• violence up
• civil dissidence up
• Totalitarianism up
• sex abuse up
• government aggressiveness up
• Status (those of a higher status are effective immune)

France, Germany and other countries already hit too as pointed out, and should this hit the US, all hell will break loose. Which goes back to some statements I made years ago.

In the Truther community, I was sent this.

As of late, one of our own lives there, his cousin was able to get out, but he remained, dealing with this. His last message was a few days ago, he talked about food rations.

The video mentioned can be found here - LINK

Our community has been bombarded with all the news around the world, some of us don't have time to gather up and spread the information.

Child sex abuse laws differ in various parts concerning law, as is with reporting such abuse. This also goes hand in hand with some being educated on how to combat child abuse, be it a JW in their community or not, even in a social space. For all communities, even among EXJWs there are abusers as is with those who defend it. In the JW case it has been somewhat reduced because none of them went back to their churches. At the same time, there is no law that prevents institutions from doing their own internal investigations, if need be, this counts for Religious faiths.

Aside from reporting, education concerning child abuse is vital, especially now because child abuse has increased among open institutions by huge percentage, even more because of the situation with Apple, YouTube, Facebook, and other media, even Reddit, detection of abuse, even by platform is more tricky. Speaking of Reddit there is a couple of subreddits there that are questionable, however one that is often excluded are those with pedophilia disorders who only seclude that space.

On the other side of the spectrum, there is hidden child abuse, something of which is done by those of a higher status, making them effectively immune to law and or justice. One of the reasons many of us were adamant of an infamous abuser and trafficker being dealt with, but of course, those of power killed said person off before we could find out more. Aside from that, householders brining their child into sex abuse is problematic, us Truthers call this selling your child(ren).

Child abuse is also more prominent among the US and the UK, however, more of a problem in the UK as statistics show, even older data. Some abusers even avoiding being added to the registry.

That being said, some weeks ago, we shut down a pedophile who was on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube. Apparently because of his status, he was allowed back on the platform, only to commit to the same acts again. His approach was a very common one, of which I will keep that redacted. The Sophie situation is active again although we assumed there was a good outcoming to her situation. As is with just a few days ago, a woman was shut down due to attempting to sell off her child to sex abuse, in this case, child prostitutions, etc. the absence other than the situation with Australia, Afghan, etc.

The pandemic essential give such ones power, and at the same time, spawn more people to act out their pedophilia disorder on potential victims, something of which COVID-19 caused indirectly, as mentioned back in June 2020, which getting to a 1984 level will cause such.

On 8/25/2021 at 5:52 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

If so, expect the exJW crowd to become virulently hostile to vaccines.

When Orwellianism thrives, people will quickly change sides.

@Thinking Was busy with a lot due to the whole Afghanistan situation and elsewhere there serious case which I aided with to remedy.

Concerning Australia here is more information

Blood issue is kind of null now due to what transpired from civil disobedience. This goes hand in hand with the view of blood in some cultures. Therefore, refusing blood is the norm now, and ahs been for a while.

That being said, regarding blood, I have a strong hatred for Transhumanism and Project Ambrosia as is the experiments in regards to such. Been fighting against it for a long time now.

There is a Pakistani JW, Kathgar, I had seen in the debating space who often speak about JWs in Israel, he was one of the few at the time who debate the Trinity whereas the audience were a mix of British people and Middle Eastern people. This whereas Judaism, Muslim, Christians often clash with each other, which explains why some of us CSEs are trigger happy with debates.

From what he stated there is a lot of slander going on in the Middle Eastern countries concerning Christians, for JWs are often put in the same basket as Syranic Christians. Slander in some degree often makes certain people targets, in Kathgar's case, he was nearly a target of the terror group ISIS at one point, and we know how terror groups are concerning Christians, mainly the ones that do not take up arms.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

Look, as I have said before numerous times,  you have a different view entirely than I do.  If you feel that I am in the wrong and you are in the right, so be it.  You will continue promoting your belief and I will continue concentrating on my belief.  I will continue to concentrate on getting the word out to “my people”, to leave the Wt. (Rev 18:4-8)  And, I don’t take back any of my words you posted here.

But these are things you said, Witness - your words. No one assumes two separate creations become one in the same, when the Bible says otherwise. How the church was structured has never changed, hence the keys given to the apostles, but the information you provided in the thread said otherwise.

This isn't about promoting a belief, this is about adhering to 2 Timothy 3:16.

• God's order has never changed, so you saying otherwise is incorrect.
• The Bible says the chosen will have new bodies, spiritual ones. You saying the chosen becoming a hybrid of human and angel is incorrected, granted spirit beings and humans are separate creations.
• Nowhere in the Old Testament does it show leaders of churches, you using Deborah, a Judge, in order to justify a church existed in ancient Israel around that time concerning leaders, was very wrong.
• Both you and @Srecko Sostartried to convince me that Chloe was a leader of a Christian Church Congregation in Corinth, which turns out to be false because nowhere in the Bible does it even suggest that.
• You claimed that in Scripture, Mary was called a prophet specially, however, nowhere in the Bible we see that mentioned by word.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

Firstly, you said, “No one in their right mind would attest to the idea Satan somehow saved God's people in the Hebrew Old Testament. That in of itself, is blasphemy.”

And that statement is indeed true.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

You are saying that God has his own personal messenger that destroys. Is this a righteous angel?  So, the God of life keeps at his side an angel specifically to destroy?

God does have that. The passage in Exodus tells you this clearly.

The events of Sodom and Gomorrah tells you this clearly.

That transpired during the days of King Hezekiah was mentioned clearly, this messenger, the angel of death called in some translations, is a messenger of God.

Just because you see Destroyer (Destroying Angel) mentioned it doesn't automatically mean Satan the Devil. Concerning Destroyer, a man, group or even spirit beings are called that, Satan even, but everywhere the root word is used doesn't negate to the Devil all the time.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

1 Cor 10:6-10 -

You're using other passages and verses to dodge what you were refuted on concerning Isaiah, Exodus, etc. You were already told in that same old thread what this verse entails.

You may not like it, but that passage is a reference to Numbers 14:1-4, 36, 37, 16:41-49, and 17:5, doesn't really have anything to do with Satan, the focus was more on specific Israelites, notable ones such as Korah, even prior concerning the actions of a few Israelite Spies who gave bad report who inspected the land of Canaan, in addition, they prompted the idea of a new leader to replace Moses the Levite.

Soon after people began to murmur about Korah, as well as other Israelites who are like him, Dathan, and Abiram, and these two were on Korah's side. The murmuring resulted in ill assumptions and complaining.

Long story short - The God of Israel responded resulting in 14,700 Israelites being punished, thus losing their lives in the wilderness, hence verses 41 and 49, Korah was among them. We see in verse 17:5 that God regarded such murmuring against his people, mainly those acting out in Shaliah, as being against him, in a sense, this was a personal issue.

Going back to 1 Corinthians 10:6-10, Apostle Paul warning listeners about becoming murmurers against  God's chosen ones as is those who hold office.

Again, this has nothing to do with Satan, granted, we can see in the references Satan had no involvement with sinning Israelites punished by God by means of a messenger.

For a former Jehovah's Witness, I don't see how you keep ignoring references despite the fact you were told by many here on a few occasions. Here we see you attempting to once again equate Satan with the events of the Israelites.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

¹⁰ And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel.

The destroying angel – “ Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.”

“destroyer” - ὀλοθρευτής olothreutḗs, ol-oth-ryoo-tace'; from G3645; a ruiner, i.e. (specially), a venomous serpent:—destroyer.

G#3645 ὀλοθρεύω [olothreuō] isn't the same as G#3644 ὀλοθρευτής [olothreutés], for 3644 was the focus in the other responses. Again you are mixing Strong's together to justify yourself and yet you fail. Moreover, for G#3645, the Hebrew usage of the term, H#7451. רָע (ra'), was used for one of God's angels, not Satan, therefore, your use of the verse in Psalms from your other response was wrong.

Psalm 78:49 - He let loose on them his burning anger, wrath, indignation, and distress, a company of destroying angels.

Angels is plural. The reason? The marginal references shows us the reason as to why.

You stated before that this verse somehow equated to Satan the Devil, however, the reality is, the references (from the verse and the passage it is in this passage Ps. 78:43-51 - "outline - Tell the Coming Generation") informs us that these destroying angels were in connection with the 10 Plagues that took place in Egypt. God himself used angels to act on his behalf, the very reason why Shaliah principle was used here (even mentioned which you ignored, granted how serious the Hebraic term is).

Since you have forgotten, the 10 plagues were:

• 1. Turning water to blood: Ex. 7:14–24
• 2. Frogs: Ex. 7:25–8:11/15
• 3. Lice or gnats: Ex. 8:12–15/8:16–19
• 4. Wild animals or flies: Ex. 8:16–28/8:20–32
• 5. Pestilence of livestock: Ex. 9:1–7
• 6. Boils: Ex. 9:8–12
• 7. Thunderstorm of hail and fire: Ex. 9:13–35
• 8. Locusts: Ex. 10:1–20
• 9. Darkness for three days: Ex. 10:21–29
• 10. Death of firstborn: Ex. 11:1–12:36

Again - [The] Destroying angel is also commonly referred to as the angel of death. On numerous occasions, God used angelic beings, his messengers, to bring judgment to sinners in ancient times. The Bible’s mentions of a destroying angel(s) are references to a heavenly being or beings that came to destroy those under God’s judgment.

The below statements also shows you are incorrect:

Anyways that passage in 1 Corinthians ahs nothing to do with the Devil.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

Ruiner

venomous serpent

Who is the serpent in the Bible?  You know. 

Satan is referred to as a serpent, however, the verse in question, 1 Corinthians 10:10, concerning murmuring, references Numbers 21:4-9.

Serpents or Snakes, plural, hence your quotation

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

We should not test Christ,^[b] as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. 

The Bronze Serpent

Numbers 21:

• [4] From Mount Hor they set out by the way to the Red Sea, to go around the land of Edom. And the people became impatient on the way.

• [5] And the people spoke against God and against Moses, “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and we loathe this worthless food.”

• [6] Then the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died.

• [7] And the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD and against you. Pray to the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people.

• [8] And the LORD said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent and set it on a pole, and everyone who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.”

• [9] So Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on a pole. And if a serpent bit anyone, he would look at the bronze serpent and live.

The reference for 1 Corinthians 10:9-10 has nothing to do with Satan.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

“1 Corinthians 10:7-10, this passage is about Apostle Paul’s focus on those of Israel who succumb to murmuring and putting God to the test, and the "Destroyer" here is regarding God’s messenger sent to destroy – that is, if you take into account the context of the references.”

This is true so what is the problem? The references do not say anything other than that.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

Your statement that in this scripture, God has His own personal destroying messenger is the very thing that you blamed me for

You are being called out for assuming that every instance of Destroyer automatically means Satan being involved. You are the one whos aid these things, hence why I quoted you, you even stated in regards to Exodus, Satan took action, likewise with the Hezekiah vs. the Assyrians.

Example, even by notation, one can see the Hermeneutics of Scripture, it's truth:

Now, here is your own words

0

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

No one in their right mind would attest to the idea Satan somehow saved God's people in the Hebrew Old Testament. That in of itself, is blasphemy.”

Of course, this is why no one is going to believe Satan somehow had any involvement with the last plague. This is why the facts outweighs your exegesis.

On 8/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Witness said:

When God removes his protection, the god of this world steps in...to destroy.  1 John 5:19

Why would Satan have any involvement with the last plague? Let alone deal with murmuring Israelites and lying spies?

1 John 5:19 tells us Satan is the ruler of this world, however, the focus is concerning the days of Natural Israel, which you made some comments that are blasphemous in all sense.

Lastly, Satan is never under Shaliah Principle, let alone called LORD in the Old Testament concerning that Jewish term.

That being said, we you were told many times, pay attention to marginal references, you always use Gateway, yet you ignore them, even the outline, purposely because you are attempting to spout your own exegesis, which at times deviate from Scripture. And stop mixing Strong's, you clearly do not know them that well, so trying to mix Strong's to someone who adhere to Textual Criticism, Hermeneutics and Concordances, you'll be called out for it.

You sound just like the girl I debated for a few days now concerning or Mainstream Christian view on some matters, very identical, and very problematic.

They're far from Gnosticism. Gnosticism in a way parallels that of New Ageism.

@Pudgy It is going to get far worse once the US and EU adhere to what Israel is doing at full force. Australia already fell to Authoritarianism. In the next few days there will be a tipping point that will spell over into months, and there is going to be a lot of blood and anger, as is civil disobedience in this spectrum, something of which I pointed out years ago here.

You may not be hit directly by Authoritarianism, but it will get you indirectly if you are unaware of what unforeseen opponent, fighting a ghost per say, regardless of your status, faith, etc. It does not care for age either because even kids are being in subjection to such, physically attacked too.

@Thinking Cannot update my last post, but in a few days it is going to get really bad, which will transition into months. In the Truther community there was talk about Israel and what they're doing which will spell over to the West and the EU, and what was said in regards to the things to come, to quote another Truther "It is going to be a harshest Hell from now into 2022, stay frosty and watch yourself and your family."

I have a lot to say, but I and the community are still doing research in regards to the United Nations, CIA and Israel.

What is to come will be tougher for you Jehovah's Witnesses too, granted Babylon and the Beast as of late are dealing with various objectives in their agenda that will soon befall of many people if they are not vigilant. So expect even your own, for they will begin to feel some kind of way in the coming months, for the foreshadowing of NWO is also near - The Mark of the Beast isn't too far too. As I told Butler, there are things taking place you wouldn't know about from the MSM.

That being said, not sure if you saw this but this was the current situation in Australia, whereas men, women and children at at risk now against authoritarianism. The irony here is, under authoritarianism, everyone is a target physically and mentally, even children for there were some, not even teens yet, who fought the police to defend their parents.

The whole blood transfusion notation isn't as problematic now due to the pandemic, since there has been a lot of talks about religion and medicine in months that have passed.

Not important, but something to point out is that the biggest fears concerning blood right now, is Project Ambrosia and the Black Market.

On 8/22/2021 at 10:52 PM, Witness said:

Of course no one in their right mind would say that.  This statement shows what a liar you are. I never would say such a thing.  You can't be trusted, SM.  

The statements are true. You say lies yet your own words speaks for you, Witness. Passover, Hezekiah vs the Assyrians, New Ageism, The Church of which Jesus entrusted, etc. Therefore, you were called out for ignoring your own words, and that was just part of what you said, as is your justifications, which are, indefensible.

As for the topic I linked, you strongly went against God's order, and you can be quoted in regards to that when you justified the change in what Apostle Paul himself said, also seen below, as is you claiming other things.

In the gospel preaching work, no one is going to take that kind of teaching or take without refutation.

That being said, the below aren't lies as you claim, as is your twisting of the judges of Israel.

One is deemed a lair if there is no evidence, or claim, thus be unproved/false. If there is ample evidence against you, you saying it is a lie makes you the lair. Like I said, this is just 2 examples out of a dozen, i.e. you saying claiming in that disccusion that Mary, the mother of Christ was called a Prophetess in Scripture (New Testament), but nowhere in the Bible is that even mentioned or seen. or convincing others one of your ideology to assume Chloe lead the church in Corinth.

Say something is lies, and I merely bring evidence. Ignore your own words as you always do, I bring even more evidence.

It is both sad and tragic, you cannot see your own error, as is your belief in conspiracy, to which you made claim to.

So tell me, if they are lies, why does the below, your words, say otherwise?

Some people do not always use strong passwords and 2-step. It is no wonder tons of emails show up on the Dark Web nowadays. One can evade a breach of their personal data if they act quickly, but some do not.

As for the hack itself, if it is indeed something both serious and true, may have been a Brute Force Attack done from the inside. If it is on the Dark Web anyone with a Cain & Abel tool can crack easy access accounts and then it goes to black market.

I had been on the Dark Web a long time ago, and it isn't a pretty sight. It is like going into a dangerous city at the dead of night.

17 hours ago, Pudgy said:

After briefly scanning all of the above, I have one question. 
What is a MSC?

Mainstream Christendom. They're in full force during the pandemic.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Possibly Main Stream Christianity = Catholic / Protestant. 

It is more than that. It is a collection of Preachers and teachers who make up this fold, consist of Trinitarians (the majority), Binitarians, and even that some Anti-Trinitarians themselves, for they got duped into it because of the Interfaith and non-core teachings. The very reason why you see them together on the world stage. Essentially, anyone who is under Babylon, at this moment (as is those who openly accept her in the past). There are also several movements among the MSC that connects them even closer together, such as Kairos, the Interfaith, PEAK, etc. In regards to the United Nations, the big men of power under the Pope seeks peace, one of the reasons why they've been fighting to unify all faiths for years upon years now. Their hands has touched, in the religious aspects of things, the US soil, France, UK, anyone who is an ally of the UN in support of a unified government.

Catholics and Protestants joined via the movements, evident to the events of the past, i.e. 2016.

Prior to the End Times Tribulations, the MSC will soon go after those who are not on their side (which will be serious for that will be the time Babylon the Great will start going after people), for if pasts event was not a foreshadowing already. Should these things start, the EU will be hit by it first due the majority being reduced due to religious minorities.

Like I said in the other there, most people, even JWs are aware about what Babylon is and surface information of her actions, but various events, like 2016, or what Ted Turner said in the early 2000s, not many people know this, if not many, most. Babylon also has an effect on the non-religious, for they have a role to play concerning not just her, but the beast, something of which @Kosonen and I pointed out from time to time.

18 hours ago, Witness said:

Did I say that God allow Satan to HELP him?  No.

Your quote was pretty clear, as is what you said afterwards. The angel of the lord sent was not Satan in the book of Exodus, or anything related to Hezekiah.

18 hours ago, Witness said:

God doesn't need anyone's help, but He allows Satan to step in when His laws are rejected after He has warned His people of what could befall them.  

Why on earth would God allow Shaliah to be performed by the Devil himself concerning the passover? Let alone how can a rebellious spirit even do Shaliah? Satan has nothing to do with helping the Israelites in Egypt, mainly in regards to the instruction God gave to Moses.

18 hours ago, Witness said:

2 Thess 2: “The coming of the lawless one is apparent in the working of Satan, who uses all power, signs, lying wonders, ¹⁰ and every kind of wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.”  9,10

You are deviating from the passover by going with other verses. Typical. Again, how on God's green earth, was Satan under Shaliah concerning the Passover? You said in your own words, Satan stepped in, this after God gave instruction to Moses.

For you to deviate from the passover by interjecting with this - that will not slight if you were a preacher.

The problem here can be seen - you are attempting to mix verses again as a way to justify the ideology you/Pearl attest to when it is not true. The fact you simply ignored your own words is rather telling.

18 hours ago, Witness said:

God “sends”  -  He allows this delusion – the working of Satan, because they refuse to love the truth.

And what does that have to do with the passover and Hezekiah vs the Assyrians? We can had Sodom and Gomorrah to the list.

18 hours ago, Witness said:

Satan destroys, death is destruction of life.

But why, according to you, he aided in God and Moses saving the Israelites from the Egyptians? You see, even years down the road, you were called out for that contradiction.

You said Satan stepped in concerning the events of Moses and the Israelites in Egypt.

The Bible tells us the truth compared to what you said. It states God himself will said an angel to take action. This is why it says Lord (Yahweh or Jehovah in some translations) in the verses afterwards because the angel in question acted on behalf of God, hence the Hebrew Word - Shaliah .

From the context alone we can see that:

• Satan or any rebellious spirit cannot commit Shaliah
• God's clear instruction to Moses the Levite
• Angel of the Lord under Shaliah
• God's enemies being destroyed and his people saved, so they can escape Egypt

18 hours ago, Witness said:

Satan is a murderer.  He is the Angel of Death.  It’s pretty simple. 

We know he is a murderer, but the problem is, why would God instruct his people, and later on, Satan somehow, according to you, helped out The Israelites and King Hezekiah?

The result in mixing verses puts you in a contradiction.

You seem to forget that Satan does not like God's people, for if he was the angel mentioned in both those passages, Moses and the Israelites would not have left Egypt, and possibly would have been killed by the Pharaoh to push an example. Likewise, we have Hezekiah, Assyrian king Sennacherib would have toppled the city and would have killed Hezekiah, which in turn, would make the Assyrian Prism justifiable due to the fact it mocked God and Hezekiah.

The Assyrian Prism is a real artifact that mocks God and Hezekiah with lies. - https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/W_1855-1003-1

So your ideology, as is with Pearl's, does not make a lot of sense because it contradicts with the context of Scripture. Anyone here knows exactly that there are several known in Scripture to be a Destroyer(s), and majority of them are one's sent by God, for the latter, in Hebrew, equates to The Angel of the Lord, hence the references for both Psalms 78:49 and Hebrews 11:27-28. Satan we know as a Destroyer also, but this is in the context that he is against God's people.

Just because you see Destroyer in Scripture, it does not automatically equate to Satan the Devil. Likewise to some who sees Lord and assumes it 100% means God. If that was true, according to you, you would not be dodging simple question concerning the Assyrians and The Passover.

18 hours ago, Witness said:

You cannot understand the spiritual fulfillment in the last days.

Yet in the thread linked you openly interjected yours's and Pearl's view of how God's Structure can easily be changed; the adaptation of Traditions of today's age, which you tried to justify and blame JWs for not accepting it, but in reality, the early church held no such view of what you attest to. Not to mention you later on in that thread assumed church congregations existed before the Christ when you tried to use Israel Judges, speaking as if Deborah was somehow a Church Leader, which is also false, she was a Judge of Israel, not a leader of a church congregation. You and Srecko even brushed over, and twisted Apostle Paul's words several times in that thread.

Any man or woman with spiritual fulfillment in mind, would not make such a mistake of that level, and defend it when they know they're in the wrong.

18 hours ago, Witness said:

To you, it is all physical.  The anointed priesthood is the spiritual Body of Christ/church.  (1 Cor 12; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 21:1-4;22:17)  This is God's order, His structure.  You believe in organized religion.  I don’t, not according to the way of man. (John 4:21-24) I believe that through God’s “organized” anointed priesthood, the law of God’s truth in Christ and His Bride (male or female), will be present on the earth in the Kingdom.  (Mal 2:7; Rev 5:9,10)

We've been through this before.  I'm finished!

And of course, even for Jehovah's Witnesses, and former Witnesses, they themselves would not adopt the ideology you and Pearl are clinging to. No one in their right mind would attest to the idea Satan somehow saved God's people in the Hebrew Old Testament. That in of itself, is blasphemy.

The fact that anyone can be asked those questions here, they would know who had a role to play in those situations, even that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 

Lastly, all angels act under Shaliah Principle. Rebellious spirits cannot, mainly due to the fact they are no longer in God's Presence.

That being said, of course you are. You can speak on the errors of others, but when it comes to Pearl, you cannot defend blasphemous ideologies, which is evident on how you used 2 Thess. 2 verses to doge anything related to Passover or The Assyrians. What is even more tragic, is you evidently ignored your own quotations. of which, in that discussion, to pulled from Pearl, as is with your utter dismantling of God's Order and Structure - therefore, it shows you are of the MSC.

Also you bring up the chosen ones again, for that is irrelevant to what your own words, or Pearl's words, attested to. Those lies would not work on anyone who understands even the basic history of God's people, mainly due to the fact the Passover, Sodom and Gomorrah, The Kings of Judah and their history is well known.

If you are a preacher of the gospel, you should know better. And we didn't even get into the conspiracy theories that Pearl adheres to, which I can easily quote you on.

On 8/19/2021 at 9:12 PM, Thinking said:

We are a small nation in number and a isolated country..we always were a prime target for the Satanic NWO..now renamed the Great reset…neighbours are turning on neighbours..police turning on the people..laws being in ignored and overruled…parliament shut down when it suits those in power….Hysteria and fear even amongst brothers and sisters….fearful times indeed ….and many not having insight into the evil workings behind it all…..this is so much more than virus and vaccinations…it’s just the start ….

NWO has not been changed to The Great Reset, for the reset is but a branch to it. We can see what they're also doing concerning the general public and the economy. But yes, there will be many who play into the hands of such powers, i.e. people getting paid by the gov't and not trying to get back to work even though they can. Not only the MSC who will be effected, but even JWs, current and former, who are unaware, will be in subjection to it, as is with those who are not as religious, in a sense, like getting tangled up in bundles of rope, you can struggle to free yourself and flee from the powers that be, but others, they will struggle to the point of passing out and the help they get is from those of power, thus siding with them and being spoiled by them, for that is how we see it in the Truther Community.

Fear, immorality, greed and a list of things is known to be weaponized by some, but in this case, the fear is intertwined with the pandemic itself, and when people are in subjection to such fear, the powers that be can swoop in to manipulate people and children like puppets, for that combination is a very strong weapon to use against people.

I say this many times here, what is taking place, mainly with the recent events of Kabul, as is, in my case, the country of the mother, once we hit the Tribulation End Times, it will be 100 times worse. And during that time, the test of endurance will begin. And as you said, a neighbor can easily become an enemy, even a family member, as there are many examples right now concerning the vaccine.

That being said, The United Nations still maintain their plans for security, and their agenda in relation to Abrahamic Faiths has only increased. As they did in 2017 for those who hold dear to the constitution, they come again, talking about it due to various events taking place, mainly in the US.

Some here stated they do not need to worry about the real enemy, but that is not a good idea. No man ignores a loose Lion hiding in the tall grass as he walks by the beast. To be aware of things, knowing the workings of the real enemy, it gives you the opportunity to evade, and protect oneself from danger, unlike the man, you'll have awareness to not even walk along the tall grass.

Knowing what is true is vital for spiritual health, in turn, builds faith, so when the dark days come, our faith will be strong to the point that it cannot be shaken, no matter how much someone attempts to break, it, be it from the government, of which they are attempting, be it from any MSC persons and or ideologies.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

Of COURSE the Wt. will not attest to Pearl's teachings, because she is exposing their false doctrine.

How is not accepting a New Age Theology a false doctrine? She herself has been duped, mainly for the fact you attested to a change, by means of her, regarding God's Order, His Structure. That is just one of these Pearl examples, of which can easily be linked. Granted JWs have the roots, as mentioned, they won't not even consider such things. Pearl herself also dwells on conspiracy theories.

Stuff like this one needs to be very careful about, and should not be proclaiming to people, even during a pandemic. That is and will be a problem.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

WHO called her out?  You?  Do you think you are the first one to come against her teachings?

There were several people, and I had showed you several times in the past coming from both Anti-JWs and Atheists. There are also others out there who ahs called her out. I called her out myself in regards to God's Orders, which has never changed since he put it in place. However, by means of what you attested to, Pearl said otherwise. To the respects of others here, no one, but you, attested to that, the latter tried to defend it with the Judges of Israel assuming Christianity began before the Christ. She was by challenged other ExJWs and even JWs, in the JWs regard, the Mark of the Beast. Some of her ideas were also challenged here.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

I'm not surprised when people like Robert King is waiting at the exit door to lead them down another rabbit hole. You do realize that Satan will use his own "chosen" ones to mislead the anointed remnant; whether inside the organization or by the likes of men like Robert King.  And also, not everyone leaving thirsts to find truth.  

Who said anything about Robert King? The man is not only a former witness, but an adversary to someone known for Bible History, who goes by the name Simon Brown. Satan ahs agents, he does not have chosen ones, let's not defile what meaning of what chosen stands for, let alone Firstfruits.

Robert King isn't the only one, Brown was able to deduce that before he got shut down. Likewise, others eve state this, and those like Robert King who have their version of some odd ideology to push to the people.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

Please, show me proof of what you are saying.  She teaches the anointed Body of Christ as the "church".  I have not heard anything about the judges of Israel as having had a "church".  Now, if you are meaning the anointed priesthood of spiritual Israel, they ARE judges.  1 Cor 6:2

In the link below you were trying to justify a shift in God's Order, his Structure, you also kept trying to go back to anything WT or JW related instead of using the context of the Bible. You went as far as to claim this was the WT's doing, but in reality, that notation predates the WT and the majority of Christendom itself. The idea of a shift in Order originated from the Western view of equality in the church at this level.

I wasn't talking about the Priesthood, the focus was in relation to how God Structure the Church, and those in position, mainly those of religious office, here we can see you even attempt to allude to the idea Christian Churches existence in the ancient days of the Israelites by using Judges, which was not only a bad move, but also false here. We should not be doing such things to fool people, even when it comes to proclamation during a pandemic. You were even asked to name a church in regards, you had no answer, as is with your attempt at answering TR.

Evidence of the discussion can be found here:

21 hours ago, Witness said:

He is the Destroyer, who do you think did the destroying?

Satan was not the one who "protect the Israelites" and "attack the Egyptians". You proclaimed a while back that somehow this was Satan's doing. Which is false. God spoke to Moses, telling him he will send an angel to do such actions.

• Exodus 12:21 -  Then Moses summoned all the elders of Israel and said to them, “Go at once and select the animals for your families and slaughter the Passover lamb. 22 Take a bunch of hyssop, dip it into the blood in the basin and put some of the blood on the top and on both sides of the doorframe. None of you shall go out of the door of your house until morning. 23 When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer [angel of death] to enter your houses and strike you down.

The Israelites were then instructed on what they must do, the infamous, blood on the doorframe, comes to mind and they were to remain in their homes. That night, an angel sent by God, also called Destroyer (Angel of Death) operated in a way exactly as to what God had told Moses. Due to this event, after the death of the Pharaoh's Son, he allowed Moses to take God's people out of the land of Egypt - and we all know what transpired after that regarding the Pharaoh.

In your quote below, you used the passages to equate, even attesting to the idea that God himself sent Satan to do these acts:

On 10/21/2018 at 12:57 PM, Witness said:

Acts of the Destroyer:

“When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.”  Exod 12:23

“By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. ²⁸ By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.”  Heb 11:27,28

Even when refuted, you kept insisting Satan was the one who somehow helped God, The Most High, then you contradicted after with things that are irrelevant.

On 10/27/2018 at 10:40 AM, Witness said:

Whatever damage is done to humans who are judged by Christ as not worthy of the Kingdom, is at the hand of the Destroyer, Satan. God removes His protection, and Satan steps in Exod 12:23

You were told afterwards, again the following:

On 10/27/2018 at 2:42 PM, Space Merchant said:

No, my view is always spiritual, never have I applied man's understanding when I have been against it for years, as with my disdain for the mainstream Christendom and it's accursed teachings, the watering down of God's Word, if you will.

How did Satan step in at Exodus 12:23 when it was God who sent an Angel (clearly not Satan) do exact judgement? Be very careful of the bitter water, Witness.

The verse even tells you

For the Lord [YHWH] will pass through to strike the Egyptians, and when he sees the blood on the lintel and on the two doorposts, the Lord [YHWH] will pass over the door and will not allow the destroyer to enter your houses to strike you.

The Destroyer here was an Angel, in some translations, it will say the Angel of Death.

For example the GNT will say: When the LORD goes through Egypt to kill the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the beams and the doorposts and will not let the Angel of Death enter your houses and kill you.

God would never, or would it ever cross his mind to send or allow Satan to do such an action, nowhere in the Bible was Satan the Devil under Shaliach Principle, for he is God's Adversary, let alone any of the spirit beings who follow him because they have been banish from being in the presence of God (Matthew 8:28, 29; Luke 4:33, 34, James 2:19).

The same Angel of Death is later found in Scripture to save a follower of God from the Assyrians, as stated before.

If you think it was Satan that was this angel in Exodus 12:23, it is clear as to what kind of understanding you adhere to.

That being said, I suggest you re-read the passage of God choosing Moses to get his people out of the captivity of the Egyptians.

And there is more, if you want of this absurdity, the idea of God and Satan teaming up in this manner, is not just a lie, but a false teaching in of itself, accursed, it is also shown you or Pearl technically alluded to the Brother Theology, which is far worse.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

49 He cast on them the fierceness of His anger,
Wrath, indignation, and trouble,
By sending angels of destruction among them.

I hope you do realize this verse references the events of the Israelites and the Egyptians.

So to you God sent Satan, or an angel? Granted by your firm belief in God using Satan, it can be seen on where you stand. And I doubt anyone would defend you here because as they remain silent on this matter because they were not aware of what you said - until now.

It is also apparent you do not know what Shaliach Principle is.

Of course you use the KJV, accept TR instead of giving evidence in a related question.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

Satan is the Betrayer and the Destroyer.  Isa 33:1; John 10:10

This just shows an absolute lack of Bible knowledge, on your part, I have your quotations regarding this too...

You stated:

On 10/21/2018 at 12:57 PM, Witness said:

“Woe to you, destroyer, you who have not been destroyed! Woe to you, betrayer, you who have not been betrayed! When you stop destroying, you will be destroyed; when you stop betraying, you will be betrayed.”  Isa 33:1

 Are there two Destroyers, Satan and Jesus?  Are WT’s spiritual leaders so illiterate that they cannot see WHO the Destroyer really is?  Jesus came to save, not destroy.  Don’t you think it is quite contradictory to believe Jesus, (yes, Jesus and not an organization) is salvation, which is the giver of LIFE, and yet also a DESTROYER OF LIFE?  John 14:6; 20:30,31  He conquers with the “breath of his mouth” and with “the brightness of his coming”, at the time of the end. 2 Thess 2:8   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14%3A6%3B+20%3A30%2C31%3B+2+Thess+2%3A8+&version=NKJV

You were told the following:

On 10/25/2018 at 10:33 PM, Space Merchant said:

Isaiah 33:1 [part A] points to 2 Kings 18:13 and Isaiah 10:15 while [part B] points to Isaiah 10:12 and Nahum 3:7.

Isaiah 33:1-14 is titled in outline Distress and Help (all the way through to verse 24). as The proud and false destroyer justly reckoned with for all his fraud, violence and bloodshed, but we have our righteous God deals with such ones who do such things. Those who by faith humbly wait for God, shall find him or herself gracious to them; as the day, so let the strength be.

Prophet Isaiah addressed who the "Destroyer" in this passage/verse. For he speaks here about Assyria. At the peak of its power, this aggressive nation appears to be undefeated, for they are very violent and commit acts of bloodshed has already been addressed, hence they are the Destroyer that destroys, in this sense, for we know what Assyria is capable of, mainly in those days. This nation was the one responsible for ravaging the cities of Judah, even stripping the house of God of everything, down to wealth and resources, by doing so with a total disregard at heart, hence what is read in 2 Kings 18:14-16 and 2 Chronicles 28:21, we can throw in Isaiah 10:5 for fun here too - "Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the Lord [Yahweh/Jehovah]." (Genesis 10:9). However, they were not the "Destroyer" for long, for that same passage of which you quoted tells you they will be destroyed – a fulfilling of prophecy is to those faithful, as declared by Prophet Isaiah.

1 Corinthians 10:7-10, this passage is about Apostle Paul’s focus on those of Israel who succumb to murmuring and putting God to the test, and the "Destroyer" here is regarding God's messenger sent to destroy – that is, if you take into account the context of the references.

Isaiah 33:1 or chapter 33 in general is regarding the "Destroyer" (The Assyrian/Assyria). Who in turn is eventually destroyed by another, an Angel (Angel of Death also known as a Destroyer).

Now going back with the verses before you tried to mix up, Sennacherib, who is an Assyrian, for Assyria (the Destroyer mentioned in Isaiah 33:1) threatened to destroy Jerusalem, which at the time its ruler being Hezekiah, the son of Ahaz. God responded by sending an Angel, and this Angel, who was sent, took out, or as some would say, steamrolled 185,000 Assyrian Soldiers as they prepared to enter the city (2 Kings 18-19, Isaiah 37:33-38). For we do not see Satan or Jesus, but an Angel, and before that we know of Assyria, who was a Destroyer themselves, thus the God of Hezekiah, going with Prophet Isaiah, destroyed the destroyer, which is, Assyria.

When you have ceased to destroy, you will be destroyed;

This is why, Witness, you shouldn't be mixing verses because it will not help you in the long run. Did you not learn the last several times you were found out to be doing this, let alone ignorance to context?

According to your response, let's take a look at the verses themselves:

NOTE: Keep this in mind. In the Bible, it speaks of spirit beings are, at times, referred to as stars (Job 38:7, Isaiah 14:13). Jesus is also referred to as a star, to be more specific, the bright morning star (Numbers 24:17, Revelations 2:28, 22:16).

21 hours ago, Witness said:

God has sent a lying spirit  into the mouths of a false prophets. (1 Kings 22:19-23)  He allowed Satan to cause affliction on Job.   God doesn't follow the rules of men - not even your rules, SM.  Yet never would He do these things unless He had just cause.  

God has his own rules and I am wise enough to not expose you for attempting to shift his rules, even his teachings.

God would never allow Satan to help him, as for Job, you seem to miss the context here, for Satan was the one to challenge God in front of his angels.

It seems you easily forget what you tend to copy/paste from Pearl, the above were just a few examples, I can simply quote you because you leave an abundance of what can easily be refuted. Indeed, God does not like false prophets, granted the MSC is full of them, including your Pearl, as is some of their theories, and the sources of which she gets it from. Perhaps as soon as we find a JW church filled with what was attest, then maybe people will take her seriously.

The problem here is in regards to what you addressed prior, it shows you are part of the MSC, as the majority of Christendom, for I even told you, you could do much better, if it were not for these mix up, theories and errors you tend to follow unknowingly.

That being said, who said they were my rules? Concordances, Strong's and our earliest sources are vital and key. It is by means of such we even have the Holy Bible. I do not attest to anything NOT written by the inspired prophets and chosen of God, the very reason I cited Peter, but you, ignore what was mentioned by Peter.

You, still have a lot to learn, but the MSC mindset prevents you from doing so.

Again, the KJV/RSV isn't the best choice.

Are you aware that some other groups who believed in 1914 of Christ becoming King? I remember on CSE, someone posted possible groups other than Bible Students, however, these groups, only some, are possibly non-existent as the years went on by.

It was said on CSE a while back.

1914 seems to, by some, revolve around world events as well, taking place.

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Yes, if you consider dissident groups of JW tradition. In my research I have found at least 3 groups that share this belief to a greater or lesser degree.

These are:

• As Testemunhas dos Deuses Santos - Holy Gods Witnesses
• The Herald of Christ's Kingdom (Bible Students)
• The Dawn Bible Students Association

There are many other JW dissident groups but I could not verify if they still share this belief. Even because some of them doesn't exist anymore.

They are:

• Laymen's Home Missionary Movement
• Epiphany Bible Students Association
• Laodicean Home Missionary Movement (1957-1990)
• Pastoral Bible Institute
• Watchers of the Morning (1937-1957)
• The Christian Millennial Fellowship
• The Standfast Bible Students Association
• The Elijah Voice Society
• The Servants of Yah
• New Jerusalem Fellowship (1922-1992)
• Old Paths Publications (1925-1961)
• Forest Gate Church (1920-1979)
• Goshen Fellowship
• The Institute of Pyramidology
• The Angel of Jehovah Bible and Tract Society
• Berean Bible Institute
• The New Covenant Believers (Berean Bible Students Church)
• Associated Bible Students
• Association of Free Bible Students of France
• German Bible Students Association
• Greek Bible Students Association
• International Bible Students of India
• Polish Bible Students Association

The CSE commenter posted this chart:

23 hours ago, Witness said:

Your early spiritual fathers must have tolerated them, at least for awhile.  Were those individuals not worth their salt?  The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures, was produced by the WT.  The 1985 version is on the JW website, and in there are the spurious scriptures.  

How dare the GB (who are not worth their salt perhaps?)  allow it, right?

 

 

 

1881 book, of which the JWs simply re-created as a literal translation of later on in 1985. For if you noticed, TR was mentioned and majority of people had it, and later dropped it. Before the JWs did the literal translation, it was done by Westcott & Hort, but even around that time, they had their version that was heavily hit with their experience in Textual Analytics, likewise, the JW's Greek New Testament that came out before the literal translation did not even follow the TR, but Westcott & Hort's original work.

That being said, Westcott & Hort didn't even consider the TR as superior, hence why their actual work was carried over to legitimate Bible translations compared to the literal translations of later sources.

I advise you learn the difference between a legitimate revision vs. a literal translation, let alone the history concerning these 2 two men. For, as told to you, if you do not know the History of the Scriptures, you will make remarks such as this., an MSC move, on your part.

Note: Textual Criticism - The goal of textual criticism is removing changes, errors, and additions to a text in order to determine the original words.