Space Merchant

@Srecko Sostar Are you going to address this or not because if the Jehovah's Witnesses were in the wrong for doing such a thing concerning Bible answers, then I am sure people would want to know. Again, that information was from the source you mentioned in the past.

Bible Errors are a problem in the pandemic. That is why those 2 questions are addressed, with reason.

40 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Like I've said I take all this as a joke. I also cannot take you seriously since you've started using memes. And for you to spend so much time trying to 'prove' who I am, when you could have spent your time on more serious matters.... 

I only used a meme twice. The first was on purpose to the quote, which you reacted to, hence the FBI comment.

I don't need to prove who you are when the latter proved it for me.

Actually I do spend my time on serious matters, as mentioned to you already, I am dealing with the Sophie situation which is in the realm of missing/persons and child abuse. I had pass over to others several missing persons information. And as of recent, dealing with information on vaccination mandates, which as of right now hit San Francisco.

I only spent, 8 minutes to gather all that information, I already know who you are, just waited for someone to call it, which adds justification to JWI and the others when you spoke in 3rd person numerous times.

40 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

As an Ex-JW I am one individual, but once again you seem to need to lump people together. And as for what your 'friends' on other forums say, should I even care ?  It is your own fault and the fault of those others you mention, if you need to lump all Ex-JWs as being one. But, it's clear that you only do it to suit your own agenda. 

Hence the claim by those concerning ExJWs - you make up the hold of that "some" who end up this way. Also true with what I am asking of Srecko right now.

I do not hold to agendas, I am against them - another lie on your point.

40 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Quote "Mic dropped", only in your dreams   . 

Well essentially it is, my credit goes to Tom, Anna, JWI, Srecko and other mentions.

That being said, the fact you cannot debate shows your irrelevancy, good day sir - you are a waste of time, for my concern in this thread is New Thought, Bible Errors being professed, if the claims are true, during a pandemic at the hands of JWs. The reason I didn't ask any current Jehovah's Witnesses here is because the claims were often spoken of by their former counterparts and scholarly rivals - they immediately got the idea as to why I asked Srecko those 2 questions.

Likewise with misinformation of equating Anti-Trinitarianism to a religious rival who believes in the Trinity and used Televangelism since the 1950s.

I am waiting for that

Those simply prove my points because you can't get around them.

It never ends, and even during the pandemic, there is a lot of shenanigans and the Prosperity and Charismatic crowd.

@Pudgy @Alzasior Lutor I just remembered this, something of which why not just the conduct is an issue, but from what I am aware of regarding anything Left-Wing, they do have an agenda (dubbed SFGMC), as seen in the videos below, this also circulated in the religious space.

Prosperity Preachers are mentally wild to a degree. That video was brought up elsewhere, mainly since Kenneth Copeland was the focus of discussion.

@BroRando If challenged with Titus 2:13,  1 Timothy 3:16, John 20:28, and Hebrews 1:1-8, what would be your response?

16 minutes ago, Witness said:

Dear SM, you entered into a debate.  You set the rules, not @Patiently waiting for Truth, the person who began the topic.  It was you who made it a regulated debate under rules you enforced.  I hope you can see that. 

He was told if the accusation made was coined again, it would result in a debate, I even asked him to not go down the path and that he is not well equipped for a serious debate but he continue with the claims as is mentioned bullying, made another accusation then locked the thread. Then he alludes to it again here as he has done in the thread about homosexuality, even after he continued again and again, and here we are.

Those 3 segments were based off his notation in the other threads.

Debates are often done in segments anyways, be it as one vs one or a group vs a group via basic rules.

His opening regards here is to profess Truthers are lairs in a sense, similar to that of Jewish leaders, as is those who have no love for no one, to which he was also warned.

4 minutes ago, Witness said:

Oh, well, the topic is "TRUTH TRUTHER TRUE. THE WORDS LOSE THEIR MEANING IN OVER USE", and in this rare case, I thought I actually stayed on topic!

But this is a debate. Either me or @Patiently waiting for Truth cannot have any outside help. People can be mentioned if need be, but no help is given. This is why I refused @Alzasior Lutor likewise, @Patiently waiting for Truth is suppose to refuse both you and @Srecko Sostar

This is what the debate is based on

20 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

As follows:

• Segment I - What is a Truther
• Segment II - What is Truth concerning Scripture
• Segment III  -  What is the Full Context of Matthew 9:9-13 concerning Matthew in this gospel.

To anyone reading, as we can see @Patiently waiting for Truth had made several claims of his notation of what a Truther is, even with false accusations in this regard, he kept going and when asked, we can see from the first page and second page of this thread alone he cannot answer even when told as shown here:

What is a Truther and or how do they operate?

As for the community in question - It has many, many branches depending on what you are looking for, which is evident in my case knowing of the MSM, United Nations, and in regards to the Left vs. Right Paradigm, to which the majority of Truthers focus on despite not being of any political side, although neutral. Even when it comes to Religion, we know to read through misinformation and falsehood, mainly for the fact majority of Truthers in this respects, be it religious or not, focus heavily on Babylon the Great and the Wild Beast with all Prophecies pertaining to them, i.e. Mark of the Beast, 666, hence why the one whom I mentioned, Solider of God, was able to point such out to the general public.

The inception of the term originated in 9/11 - 9/11 truth movement, to which they dubbed themselves as Truthers, therefore to @Srecko Sostar's remark (despite the fact he isn't suppose to me helping @Patiently waiting for Truth) was incorrect, as we can see, the two of them were in agreement of false information. As for what a Truther is,

This later spawned branches from the movement, to which the focus was later on the Left vs Right paradigm, then we had the groups that formed, this resulted in the formation of the Truther Community because of these groups, and how the Mainstream Media framed said events to confuse the general public. Reasons why, which was told to @Witness a while back that A Truther is someone who, in this sense, seeks truth to an event and or situation, someone who does not play into the MSM narrative and or conspiracy, let alone government schemes and so forth that is being pushed on to the people on a TV set, phones, etc. what have you.

For the definition is as follows - A Truther is one who believes that the truth about an important subject or event is being concealed from the public by a powerful conspiracy.

An example of this, in the past on this forum, Although I do not want to talk about the faith JW in the debate, but I will use them as an example, it was said Jehovah's Witnesses held firearms, assault rifles, and the like along with literal poison, and what was said about what such was used for, was disturbing, yet some on here defended such a man who profess this conspiracy. As a Truther, it was debunked that this information was both false and untrue. We can take it a step further with how JWs were depicted by the MSM prior to the Russian ban, video showed "Jehovah's Witnesses" practicing combat inside their church, act crazy as if they're in a mega church, rolling on the ground, slapping each other with sticks, shaking their heads in unison in a wild manner as if they  a Punk Rocker in a Death Metal Concert, all this a conspiracy professed by Russian media, only for Russian Truthers to shut it down granted JWs were essentially blocked from speaking. Concerning even that of CSA, there are people who speak of such, as is with the vile things in this regard by some powers in the US and the UK.

As for John Butler, the one who is in this debate against me, he was informed of what misinformation he heard about a group the MSM uses to distract, scare and confuse the general public as shown below:

Likewise today, we do the same thing with today's events - expose misinformation, getting all the facts. As is with those who focus on history, granted, people are attempting to erase and re-write history in an attempt to even misguide children. We adamant about victories against Epstein and the like, We speak up for the late Serena Shim when a lie was said in her name, etc. We are speaking a lot about COVID-19 and everything pertaining to the pandemic however, MSM demonizes Truthers and equate them to Conspiracy Theorists and Trump Supporters.

A Truther does not only expose conspiracies or what the MSM is doing, even that of what government has said, or the United Nations. Truther are often, if possible, among good Samaritans. What effects one, effects all of them. So as an example of this when it comes to missing persons, information is passed alone, one to another until everyone is aware. This is why I alluded to Sophie Long and others, and speaking of Sophie Long, we are, right now, stamping out misinformation of this ongoing missing/child abuse situation that social media is spreading.

So in short, they are all over the place, majority of them are on forums or other forms of social media, etc.

As to the very reason I mentioned the emerging groups and the like was how I was invited to be on myself, even outside of my work with children, and knowing of some history and the like. Even before that, I didn't even know what a Truther is, and later becoming one, I realize it was them who aided stopping lies and misinformation in the aftermath of my friend's suicide.

And to that, I did what @Patiently waiting for Truth could not, answer to the Segment I of the debate. Which brings us to Segment II

He is also free to pick out whatever I said for Segment I to challenge 2 times in a single response - if he wants to.

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Segment II - What is Truth concerning Scripture

Since @Patiently waiting for Truth was suppose to answer first. I will be the first to answer Segment II.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

But then you continue.  You can't even tell the truth about that  

I did, as is the notation of you speaking of yourself in 3rd person to deviate - hence Tom and Anna in this regard. I also missed someone else - Leander H. McNelly, who called it out, and your reaction was nowhere to be found compared to your reaction to Tom and Anna.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I think that your line of thought could be, that if you could prove that I am John Butler then you could get me removed from this forum.

Because you are him, that is why I purposely left out JWI's conclusion.

Why would there be a need to get you removed from this forum? You speaking simply shows guests what becomes of former JWs, simple as that, which proves the claim over at CSE and other Abrahamic Faiths as factual.

That being said, you are free to abandon the 3rd person mantra to fool people, you can even rename yourself as what you were originally called, it makes no difference.

Anyways, I believe we had a debate going on, you seem to be wasting time, which proves my claim of you unable to debate. Very shortly, I will conclude segment I.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Otherwise why would an intelligent man worry himself about who i am ? 

Srecko coined it, I merely respond, and you reacted, more so you asked for it, hence the end result.

EDIT:

As expected, hence the notation of your reactions equating to the latter

2 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Yes funny that you take this one line out of context. WHEREAS you would use other quotes in context.

You certainly seem to have JW training. 

I'm sure that 'quote' above also said "If you think I am John Butler, then I am" 

Hence the following mentions of Anna and JWI and Tom, as for what was addressed in said thread. You used 3rd person mannerism in order to evade the suspicion. Reasons why I addressed Harley, Anna and JWI, as well as Tom afterwards.

11 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Space Merchant wants 'free advertising'. He wants me to do 'research' to advertise his 'community'. 

I didn't ask for research, you were asked as to what a Truther is as per segment I.

12 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I'm not falling for it. He has called himself a Truther for so long, it is obvious that he has wanted people to ask him what they are.  

Falling for what, you were told if you made an accusation it would spawn a debate.

13 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Maybe @Space Merchant should make a new topic where he can advertise his 'community'. 

 No need to.

Here is the name of your topic

The debate revolves around 3 things:

What is a Truther, hence the accusations, What is truth of the Scriptures, and the notation you profess for Matthew 9:13

19 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

• Segment I - What is a Truther
• Segment II - What is Truth concerning Scripture
• Segment III  -  What is the Full Context of Matthew 9:9-13 concerning Matthew in this gospel.

That being said, if you can't hold up to even that, it just shows what people think of former Witnesses, as to not only people on this forum, but to even guests who come here.

You won't be asked again. For you are displaying Evasion - Question Dodging.

41 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Is your real name "Space Merchant"? I am not making problem with that. Also, i don't understand your strong desire to deal with the issue of who is called on a forum where almost everyone has fictitious names.

Obviously not. It has nothing to do with desire, just denial. It was all thanks to you by the way to not confirm it, but to make John react to this revelation, hence past remarks.

Plus he asked for it. So I presented.

That being said, I asked you 2 questions.

EDIT

And there you have it - @Patiently waiting for Truth reacted as was address with the notation of Anna and JWI - mic dropped - case closed.

7 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I am confused an have no "basics" about this  . What is "Truther Community" and who are "Truthers"? Is that some Movement, Religion, Internet Community? Who are members? And can you be, for example Catholic or Muslim or JW and "Truther" who belong to "Truther Community" in the same time?

Segment I is directed for @Patiently waiting for Truth in this debate. Granted he made claim to what the community entails, we will wait and see as to what he has to say about the community.

That being said, the debate is between him and I (when a challenged is raised it is to be respect, for there is no outside help), I believe you have questions about supposed Bible errors committed by JWs elsewhere.

This has nothing to do with basics or Religion concerning the community in question, FYI. And do not bother with the internet either, hence the remark about the 10 years of scrubbing and rewritings of said community and what they equated it to.

It amazes me to this day, that some cannot hold their own without the slight mention of religious organizations. Even if the subject matter is a focused subject.

@TrueTomHarley Well it is going to get worse for everyone, including JWs - all those who are not vaccinated and potentially, if a 3rd dosage is required, it will effect the vaccinated. There as been discussions in the political space of Interstate Travel will be in the same realm what some businesses and institutions are under - Entry/Access by means of Mandated vaccines. When Authoritarianism its critical max, then the effects will be felt, for it will be so great that even the EU will feel it. Sydney is locked down which resulted in the panic buying in Australia, Germany is on the verge of doing such, the UK will follow.

Elsewhere, which will effect the US is the fact the Taliban has returned at a greater scale whereas the US military are suffering from the exhaust of the war of the Middle East, for the war that has been going on for so long to the point I still remember how is "supposedly began" when I was a child. This could also cause a resurgence of other groups like Jayish Al-Islam.

That being said, In the political paradigm, Leftist still assume everything is fine and that inflation is a good thing whereas some have the mindset of - Best be prepared for continuous price increases.

@Patiently waiting for Truth You essentially initiated the debate, so hold to that respect. But I see you are attempting to avoid debate by trying to bring this old game up, JB.

But since you asked for it, why not? Let's go through some receipts:

As for evidence, there are several examples. @TrueTomHarley and you were going about Watchtower religious leaders, governing body, where which Tom coined if "Are you sure you are not John Butler" you brushed it off, stating what he said was rubbish, adding to the fact, Tom would be above that, thus denied it.

Even here

Both you and John Butler often speak of the same thing in the same patterns concerning WT, GB, CSA, and both of you always have a negative reaction to @Anna, @TrueTomHarley, @Arauna. Not only the mention of such, but also the same mannerism, and the reaction towards from @Witness and @Srecko Sostar is often not the same.

If you haven't noticed, the meme you reacted to, was a lowkey test. Which had nothing to do with race, you you claim racism. Butler did the same thing with the evidence/facts provided by the FBI concerning Child Sex Abuse regarding the demographics of the abuser, going as far as to even post a video of old school Hip-Hop. When can called out for purposely angering a Teenaged Jehovah's Witnesses, he got angry (this resulted in John essentially crying to Admin to do something)

Which is equated to the recent one as seen below

The irony is, the only person who is aware I am Black, or as you say "a man of colour" was Allen, Tom and John Butler, but only Butler was the one to constantly bring it up In fact, only John brings up that TERM as shown here in the search history - https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/search/?q="man of colour"&quick=1

The irony is it was only directed to me alone. The first time you mentioned it, you put heavy emphasis on this notation as shown below:

You angered @Equivocation a while back when using Ebonics and mocked his uncle, who isn't a Jehovah's Witness, but helps them, thus you past judgment, to the point you cried out to Admin when Srecko or Witness didn't come to help you, this resulted in Admin shutting down the thread, and to @Equivocation's credit, if he is asked of what happen, I am sure, him, being a Jehovah's Witness, will recall said account.

Then we have @JW Insider raising suspicion of you being him.

In that thread, we see you showed no reaction to @JW Insider. To which you later went on a rant regarding Billy The Kid in this shared link [JW Insider connecting the dots]' Even Harley called it out.

@Anna even got on into this as shown here

Even to her, no reaction, for as pointed out, your reaction are somewhat spontaneous depending on who said it and how:

There is more, but I will leave it at that so in regards to your questions

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

When John Butler was drastically removed from this forum, he could not return as John Butler.  He had to return as someone else. NOT HIS CHOICE. 

Known because I was among the early persons who know about the situation with Billy, only JWI committed to deducing it when you on several occasions denied it, this also goes for any allusions.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

BUT you said I denied being John Butler, so prove it Truther. 

You did, @TrueTomHarley was among the first to mention that, Allen, Billy, etc. You even attest to making a remark as to people who assumed you to be him, and we can see that in both your spontaneous reaction, despite claims. This is also evident to the mannerism as shown above. At one point even @Witness was accused of being Butler, but that was false due to the fact her mannerism differ from yours/JB.

You even speak of yourself in 3rd Person, as is hold an legitimate defense if John Butler is coined by anyone whom you at times do not agree with.

Need I say more? - God is witness.

Oh and yes - there is more, but I drop the mic to what is stated above.

That being said, let's also not forget @Srecko Sostar called you out as John - 

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If you start with such a perspective then it is superfluous for John and I to answer such and other similar questions.

Same person, yet wears a different mask, in the words of Butler - 

@Witness The response you made just now, quoting @Patiently waiting for Truth - 

@Witness This is an ongoing debate that was initiated. To your respects, you can make a thread about what you quoted if need be.

@Patiently waiting for Truth What you are doing is Evasion/Ethics - Question dodging is a rhetorical technique involving the intentional avoidance of answering a question. Often times it does work in a debate when notable and factual points are presented, however, since nothing is said, it can post as a negative.

That being said, as stated, you were told if you made the accusation again in relation to even make a negative utterance to anything pertaining to or someone of the Truther Community. You also took personal note when you spoke of debates with him, so why not the tables suddenly cannot turn themselves?

Again, if you can't answer Segment I, I will conclude so we can go to Segment II.

This has nothing to do with power, it is in relation to claims, for you were the one who began this thread adding such assertions.

I do not give orders, I speak facts and truth. If I make a mistake, I call it out.

@Srecko Sostar or @Witness can't help you here. The same reason I refused @Alzasior Lutor here.

@Patiently waiting for Truth Please address Segment I. We are not playing the game of going around the focus subject. Debates do not play the same rules as discussions often professed here.

@Patiently waiting for Truth You are in an ongoing debate - your response should be in the other thread, not here. Respect the rules of the debate - thank you.

Also @Srecko Sostar called you John, and you show no reaction to being called John, Butler, or JB, and you talk about him a lot and have the same mannerism.

@Patiently waiting for Truth You are in a DEBATE, Butler.

I told you if you make an accusation against a community I am part of, it would come to this, therefore challenge accepted the second you utter a 3rd Truther accusation.

@TrueTomHarley @Witness @Srecko Sostar @Puddlez @Kick_Faceinator @JW Insider @Equivocation and everyone else did not make the such an accusation - ever, in your case, 3 times in succession you made concerning the community.

You have to start with the first segment, hence a debate. You can't put all segments into one for in a debate, segments and or subject matter is of strict focus -  again, you sought out the debate, so now you have to play by the rules of said debate because the spotlight is on both of us. In a debate, facts must be stated, not personal opinions alone. Facts in this activity are anything learned from research by means of article sources and or video, etc. In a segment focused debate, there is no outside help, in this regard, everyone is a spectator for the debate is between you and I.

The first segment is the following

16 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Segment I - What is a Truther

Since I asked the question first, as seen here

16 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

[Segment I] If you are going to make a reference to me, at least explain to everyone in the class what a Truther is.

Out of respect in the realm of debate, you can follow the below.

That being said - Respect the Rules of the Debate. For this is a classic because this forum was originally Controversial Posts.

As stated, anything pretraining to Jehovah's Witnesses can't help you here, this is Segment focused debate, so anything pertaining to the Bible or about Truthers and the word Truth can only be focused on.

Since the first question in segment I was presented to you, put forth your information.

@Srecko Sostar You yourself called out Jehovah's Witnesses for Bible errors several times (The notable one was regards to Judges of Israel), you brought forth again of JW errors in regards to the notation of Basic Knowledge, in this case, their Bible - New World Translation (NWT), I didn't ask you for that other stuff, for we are focused on errors.

Also I am aware that they crafted the NWT, who is not aware? Also I didn't ask you for what JWs are doing now, but if you want to go there - Then in your eyes the JWs are wrong for proclaiming such Bible errors, right? Should the people know? That is for you to speak of in regards to this matter.

Also thank you for confirming who @Patiently waiting for Truth is, for in the past, he made claims he was not John Butler, in fact, even spoke of himself in 3rd person. It didn't take Batman level of Detective work to recognize the textual and speech patterns of Butler, so the fact I refer to him as JB, early on, with his denial and later shows no reaction to it further, practically unmasked him, and this, unmasked him even more.

So I will quote you again:

If that is what you think, them not being true witnesses, then there should be no issue calling them out for removal of verses or partial changes of verses. @Patiently waiting for Truth brought up an example of what I had addressed to you, but has not shown evidence as to why they made the change, something of which the NWT has often been criticized by certain scholars.

Please address the following that is being asked of you - again, I do not need to do another Glasgow with your comments about errors and translation

To make it easy for you we can start with John 7:53-8:11 and Acts 7:59-60, something of which Jehovah's Witnesses were called out for concerning their Bible, the NWT.

Again, you and the sources of JWfacts claim that they are in error in regards to Translations. The images were provided by Mr. Cedars, an Ex-Jehovah's Witnesses, whom you follow.

@Alzasior Lutor C'est bien, mais en ce qui concerne Mr. Butler ici, je lui ai dit que s'il faisait une accusation concernant la communauté que je joue un rôle en aidant, cela entraînerait un débat entre lui et moi, et il l'a fait ici.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

A man calls himself a TRUTHER

[Segment I] If you are going to make a reference to me, at least explain to everyone in the class what a Truther is. You will not have a good time using the google searches either because prior to various events in the last 10+ years and the formation groups, the legitimate actions of such persons has been changed, as is with added slander and accusations, many edits, which came to light briefly because of January 6th to the general public.

For I told you, if you are going to make an accusation like that again, you will be debated on it, and you did so in a way that prevents you from seeking aid be it from a JW or an ExJW because they are unaware of the community in question. Now here we are. Granted to go for one, you go for all of them in this regard - and to that I accept the challenge, although didn't doubt you would actually take up the warning.

You can start with [Segment I]

The other stuff can be dealt with afterwards. And of course in a debate, no outside help from others on the forum. You'll be speaking as if you are in public discourse, so there is no need to induced anything of your former faith or mention since we will keep it Bible and Fact base only, excluding what a Truther is for that is in regards to a community.

That being said, 

As follows:

• Segment I - What is a Truther
• Segment II - What is Truth concerning Scripture
• Segment III  -  What is the Full Context of Matthew 9:9-13 concerning Matthew in this gospel.