Space Merchant

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I get it that I am being tagged, and I appreciate the apparent vote of confidence. But I think it is pretty clear that with PSomH you are dealing with a dodo whose inability to talk or see sense, not just on JW things but on many things in general, can cause people to pull their hair out, as it is with you.  

It is tragic, and the thing is a do not like the fact the stereotypes of religious folks of a former faith is often proven right by Muslims and Christians of CSE, but that is the reality. It is known of what Apostasy can lead into, hence the instances mentioned, and not seeing that is a total disregard to what the Bible says about being vigilant and enduring, not not succumbing to misinformation, hence the mention of the smurf woman who has wild accusations that caught the attention of JWs and ExJWs alike. Other then that, the facts stand firm even in the face of the misguided. Ultimately his own comments resulted in his misgivings, mainly the verse used for the wrong reasons.

That being said, even in regards to the crucifixion of the Christ, that in of itself can be weaponized by some, even apostasy. For there are many who look at the Scriptures in regards to the fact Jesus was most likely hung up with nails via his wrist, granted the weight of the body comes into question a lot - which is why the majority leans towards wrists. As pointed out if it was his hands, then the weight would eventually drag down his hands and start tearing away his flesh, mainly with the anatomy of the hands, it wouldn't hold Jesus up long enough, especially after when he expired. The problem here is in the Bible when people see the word hands, they come to a literal conclusion, granted hands can mean any part of the hand and or wrist/forearm, etc. An example of this is Acts 12:7 Peter was imprisoned and later freed by an Angel, the Angel removed the cuffs from his hands, but as we can look into this with context, the cuffs were on his wrists, likewise with anyone bounded by their feet, whereas their bound is on their ankles, not actually on their feet (Acts 16:24); bringing us to Paul, as is Silas in Philippi, Acts 16:25-31: 25. Just the words hands alone in the concordances along have meanings depending on where it is used. All in all, in regards to Jesus' death, the focus should have been on why he died, if we are to speak of Jesus' death, the sole focus is in regards if it was a cross or a stake, something of which is the primary focus of most besides the hand/wrists and nails, etc. as is with it being highly debated.

There are a lot of depictions of Jesus being hung up, and the majority shows him hanging up with the nails driven through his wrists -  Be it an image of him on a cross, a stake, or even a tree.

Some imaged examples, images are depictions of Peter and Paul, as is one including Silas.

1 hour ago, xero said:

https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/08/fact-check-the-cdc-did-not-admit-that-only-six-percent-of-deaths-in-covid-toll-were-from-covid-19.html?fbclid=IwAR3x_1jVHk3hBFcUlKsHCRcL3jdK0G41-a56jBYcaOPmbPv0JrNQEHZ83_M

OK, but now we're down to 17. I wonder why the fact checkers at facebook haven't been able to address the other 17 reasons.

Perhaps because they are attempting to stamp out "misinformation" as they claim? The media has been pressing this for weeks on end. Misinformation has caught the eye of many, even faith communities, because they haven't heard the other side of the story. Trying to soften up the people.

Crazy how because of the pandemic everything seems one sided, yet when the other side speaks, instant deplatforming.

@TrueTomHarley A crash of an unusual kind is coming very soon due to the pandemic and in the Truther community talk about the zombie tax, which in turn will destroy businesses and family's means of living, so much so, you even have the fitness community becoming preppers. Meanwhile, the rich and wealth party in luxury as the people suffer.

My recommendation is, it is wise to take in more information on said facts at times because Facebook and other forms of media have been removing things along with YouTube. Facebook and YouTube all have it's dangers for no area in social media is pure let alone clean. Twitter especially.

That being said, there is a chance of Covid-19 pills and more dosages on the horizon. Children will most likely be subjected to this and more people who were hit indirectly will be showing their true colors, or as the folks say, this is what happens when the US turns Blue, so to speak. Also someone mentioned Bill Gates... Not much of a fan, I look at him with skepticism.

47 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

You keep pushing just like a bully in a school playground. "Do this, do that. I told you this, I told you that".

No love, no thoughtfulness, just harshness. A Truther, with no heart. So be it.  

I suppose one thing that the JWs teach makes sense. "Don't argue, just walk away.  It doesn't matter what the enemy thinks, it only matters that you are pleasing God through Christ".   

 

Like I said, if you are going to make a claim about something, do not make assumptions otherwise it would be problematic, and we can see when called out about it or zeroing in on your own claim, you react the way you do, and make remarks to dodge your own words. Everyone knows if one alienates themselves from God, especially in this manner, they do not have love in them or cling to what is good, mainly for those who show no remorse for their actions. This is why it was wrong of you to attest to Romans 12:9 ;granted you didn't even know the meaning behind the quotation I said; in my response to @TrueTomHarley because Alienation reaps instances of disaster, hence those questions addressed to you in red and blue, we know what the Bible says in regards to this things, marriage should be between a man and a woman, homosexuality is sin, war destroys lives, etc. People who cling to badness, do not have love in them, or have that of what is good in God's Word, hence why Ephesians 4:18 was appropriate because it correlates with not what was said, but the current situation of things regarding Christians and haters of God.

Truthers do have heart for the longest of time, again do not make an accusation if you can't back it up; mainly if you have no knowledge of that such entails. Because there are things of which such has found that would  put you into shock. And there I will rest it, for one's ignorance of the term; thus the talk of misinformation and the lack of understanding, let alone the very reason Truther always coin the MSM misleading the general public, let alone take pride in looking for missing persons, such as children.

This isn't an argument, my response was towards Tom and only him in regards to Apostasy, but you interjected with some narratives that do not even connect with hat was conveyed.

A lesson you do not learn from and you continue to do such things.

Correction - it does matter what the enemy is doing, hence the UN and the events of 2016/2017 and onward, i.e. those who were pleasing God were taken by Babylon in Washing some years ago, and they were not vigilant compared to most. The Christians wiped out were in the thousands, all taken into the Temple of Babylon, even a few Jehovah's Witnesses, current and former. This is why Proverbs 22:3 is vital, as is with being enduring, watchful, and vigilant in the last days of the End Times and continously pray to God, and adhere to the commission. We have to be aware of the danger of Babylon and the Beast otherwise we fall victim to it. Strong Christians, although some do not know 100% of the inner workings of the Beast and the Harlot, they do everything they must to evade being taken away, likewise with those who are alienated from God and what they have been doing thus far. You do not see that because you seem confined to a  single space.

The Bible teaches us the danger of God's adversary and what we must avoid, things we have to do to strengthen ourselves, and the like. Because even the smallest of err can swing someone into the Devil's favor, thus becoming a drifter and a pawn to that of Babylon and the Beast, especially during these times of the pandemic, which the powers that be are using to scare people.

That being said, not only an examination must be executed on your part, but you need to actually open your eyes, as I told you before when you went by the name JB.

Anyways as for the subject matter - https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/19649/when-jesus-was-nailed-to-the-cross-did-the-nails-go-through-his-hands-or-throug/19651#19651

@xero Vaccinations is up to the choice of the individuals (also recommended to speak to your doctor), be it a man, woman or child, however, it seems people are pressing with fear to get the numbers up (death toll was abandoned by the MSM because Donald J. Trump is no longer in power). Truthers called it years ago that a crisis will enable the media and the government to reap and use said powers, all it took was a pandemic which resulted in the state of the Western world and the rest of the globe. Some can't take it due to Religious Reasons, and or being against their faith or they can't take it at all due to medical issues.

The irony here is that one of the children I helped out mentioned a game his older brother played that spoke of a virus and a pandemic, and in this game as to how the situation has been dividing the people and cause a panic among ALL groups. Thus is sparks a segregation of the general public in some parts, for in the past, whites and blacks were subjected to segregation, but like in this game the kid mentioned to me, you have people segregated by their augmentations, IRL, the vaccinated and the unvaccinated.

That being said, the US and their allies, France, United Kingdom, etc. are pressing for vaccinations. Germany recently joined the bandwagon in this regard.

Concerning COVID-19 there is a LOT going on in the background that isn't being mentioned in articles and the media. Aside from "Vaccinated Only" signs, arrests, etc. Especially breakthrough cases of the Vaccinated folk who are now dub'd Trojan Horses, which is rarely spoken about in the media. As is with suffering children.

They use to clown Truthers about Booster Shots last year, and now they suggest Booster Shots and COVID-19 Pills.

As I and Kosenen have brought up, they're going to make things harder and harder for you so you submit to a medical procedure.

A recent assassination was also speculate due to rejection of vaccinations, and ironically cases went out in said country, as is with their neighbors, who were subjected to mixed dosages, which can also become a reality in the US and EU.

Although it as nothing to do with the Mark of the Beast as some claim, it can be seen as a foreshadowing of the things to come, the events prior to the Endgame, mainly with the agenda of the United Nations slowly coming to fruition.

As I mentioned in another thread, the wave that is to come, some people will be wept away by it, for their own assumption spells their demise, which proves Proverbs 22:3, and all similar verses to it not being applied.

There is a saying some folks say, buy the rumor, sell the news. Crypto is in subjection to that. It's status of it being a decentralized currency is up in discussion, and more so with today's situation, the big guys are being up a majority of said currency, as is with gold and silver.

On 8/3/2021 at 3:15 AM, Pudgy said:

That one Scripture there DESTROYS the Trinity.

Since I am a cartoon dog, I recognize other explanations .....

Not quite lol, they can spin doctor this verse to fit their own exegesis. I say this because for years I dealt with many, many Trinitarians, and I got myself into the Anti-Trinitarian vs Trinitarian battle.

I made a factual statement in this regard some days ago for this verse:

On 8/4/2021 at 2:04 PM, Space Merchant said:

Yes, Jesus made it clear that he is God's Son, and to God, he acknowledged Jesus is his beloved Son. All this is true, but the latter believes Jesus and God are one in the same, not only due to the teachings of the Trinity itself, but the errors and forgeries in the Bible that pushes a reader to not recognize the distinction between the two.

That being said, the verse you cited, Mark 10:18, is used by Trinitarians to justify their view of equating the Son to the Most High which is against what us Non-Trinitarians believe, as is our Subordinationist counterparts of old. Trinitarians see in this verse that Jesus himself is still God; being good. They resort to ignoring as well as nullify Jesus' words. If each of us tell them what Jesus is really saying here, not only they'll rush John 1:1, but they will make the claim that we are saying Jesus is not good. In their minds, Trinitarians are suggesting that the issue is about moral goodness. Trinitarians act as though that Jesus is coyly suggesting that he himself is that "good God", however, the passage is not about whether we say Jesus is good or not, but rather, it is about what Jesus himself has said.

And regarding what he said, Jesus recognizes that God holds the highest of standard of what it means to be good, being the fact, God can make the determination of what is good and bad. And Jesus being humble leaves the determination of setting the standard to his Father and God and we can see this in his Word, of which Jesus proclaims.

They fail to see what was mentioned here, that no one would say such a thing to someone else unless they wanted to correct them and point out that their words were misdirected.

That being said, this is why research and taking in context of core teachings is vital. Because to the unexpected, The Trinitarian Troop can easily sway people into the opposing Teaching of what is true.

Trinitarians are still misguided and that Core Trinitarian teaching which oppose the True Core teachings is problematic. Babylon will be unitizing them in regards to religion and politics to deal with those who oppose the proustite and the beast.

Early 2000s and 2016 and onward are merely a remind of why we fight, as did those centuries before us.

30 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

@Space Merchant  I am sorry that you are so angry and have to 'hate' on me.  We will of course continue to have different opinons. You obviously think from a different angle to me but you sound so aggressive about it all.

You seem to like to tell me what I should and shouldn't think or do, and even to the point of which scriptures i should and shouldn't use. That does not show any form of love, it in fact shows the wish to control.  This is very much in line with the Watchtower / JW org leaders that wish to control the thinking and actions of every JW. 

Like I say, it would probably be wise for you to look in that spiritual mirror.  You may have lots of 'knowledge' but it would appear by the things you write that you lack the love of a true Christian. 

I don't get angry, because of Galatians 5. Getting emotional, even displaying anger yields nothing, be it spiritually, and culturally, nor express hate, if it was already said, I hate minsifnroamtion and the Trinity, those affiliated with such I see as misguided. A Spiritually Strong person holds firm and stands when in harm's way, holding true to God and his Word, and adhere to the command of his Christ, mainly those who are seeking truth. If anyone buckled, it was you, hence your reaction, which is why it can be saved when the wave comes, you can be swept away by it. But as shown before you do not know culture. Also by the way, my remark to Tom was no opinion, it was fact. Since the fall of the church this has been happening, centuries onward to present day, today,  until the end of the End Times.

Can you please address the the below in regards to Romans 12:9

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

That being said, I like how you bring Romans 12:9, yet Hermeneutical Context doesn't even correlate with the point made (which puts into question your claim of seeking and or having spiritual knowledge). JB, I thought you examined yourself spiritually here how can those having hatred of God abhor what is bad?

 

Did you not READ what I said to @TrueTomHarley? [Although Apostasy, being an alienation from God, it can spell disaster in some instances.]

So tell me, is homosexuality right in the eyes of God because through Jesus he accepts everyone? The answer is pretty obvious. Or how about same sex marriage? As long as both persons are in union before God and accept God, you think that is okay? Or maybe, is it right to make the claim that God was the one responsible for the Coronavirus, just so he can pass judgement? Or perhaps, the bombing of innocence men, women and children is a justice in the eyes of God for those of the US and the UK?

Which is also connected to this:

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

[haters hate because they can't appreciate, in turn, haters makes one even more famous.] - all quotations have meaning, of course.

More and more people bring forth hate and persecution to break Christians, moreover, they do not appreciate the teachings of God so they'll do anything and everything to destroy and suppress it. But Christians remain enduring and strong against such because they know if hated, they are in the right for speaking true, in this regard, famous before God and famous before those who wants to stop God's people despite every attempt being a failure. The fact that Tom was able to understand that, but you didn't speaks volume.

You speaking of Romans 12:9 is out of context here for the verses stats [Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.]

There is a verse you should have used in this regard, and it is Ephesians 4:18, which would have made more sense.

It reads [being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their heart;]

Those who hold to this category do have darken hearts. Because they reject God with their folly, they do not have in view the life of God of which he gives them, hence God being the life giver. Their hearts are also harden, so even if a Christian reasons with them, they do not listen, even if they attack or kill a Christian or do anything vile of ill intent, they hold no remorse, not to mention they rejoice at trying to break them from the inside and out. They love what is bad and wicked. They abhor ALL that is good. And they will find away to attack, as is willfully confuse Christians if need be because they do not see their err and are lost. Something of which Satan the Devil takes joy in as is a rebellious child who steals candy from another child. In rare instances, some come to their senses, and make the return to God, we even have Bible examples, un turn mirrors today.

and this:

That being said, that is quite a cheeky accusation, I don't buckle or faze to misguided folks, which I knew what is coming because when pressed with the facts you either [A] walk around what is said and [B] Say a remark just to deviate from what is being asked of you - not this time. If you didn't want to be checked in this manner, you should not not mentioned me let alone make a response to what I told @TrueTomHarley. Anyways, How does not lack love when defending what is true about those who are for God around the world who deals with those who are alienated from God? It is the very reason I brought up Syrian Christians. Not to long ago you pressed a defense with Romans 12:9, which has now been called into question.

To abhor what is good is not love, hence your confusion. Therefore, the use of Romans 12:9 is unwise. Perhaps if it was in reverse, you'd have a case.

That being said, address the quotation, if you speak such resolve.

As for the hands vs wrist notation, the information is true to it's concordances. Mainly in regards to the tearing of flesh.

14 hours ago, Thinking said:

This is the groundwork being laid down in Australia now…I think Canada too…thanks for your explanations…much appreciated…

Anytime. But yeah, Australia has gotten worse, Canada is a different story. For Australia, their media isn't displaying what is taking place there all the time, let alone they rarely display full information, mainly when it comes to opposing views, religion, etc. As of recent they are sending and or have done so already the military to deal with people. Similar to Australia, you have Germany. They are physically abusing people, even children. And by whom? The police is doing this, and they are under order to do so in regards to the strife taking place there due to the COVID-19 surge. There was a child beaten by the Berlin police all because he protected his mother who had a different view concerning the pandemic, not to mention the recent 600 arrests. Sounds a bit 1984ish/Orwellian. Thus sparks the notation of Totalitarian action. This is parallel to what transpired prior to the ban of JWs in Russia and all things around it in regards to the Church and the State Duma, even afterwards, anything after the banning of JWs is highly suppressed, the only victory here is the Alexei Navalny followers being able to take down an FSB website that tracks them, along with others who the Kremlin deems a threat and yes, even JWs were tracked on this website, but they were branded as Navalny Heroes along with the rest, even underaged teens were branded.

As pointed out to @TrueTomHarley and @ApostaBabe Linda James, Jehovah's Witnesses are only aware of their banning in Russia (as is the jailing of members of their faith), but not everything else that has taken place, before, during and after around the banning, i.e. members of the church for a brief moment went door to door to preach since the JWs were not doing it anymore or the legitimate "spiritual power" gain by Patriarch Kirill of Moscow prior or his meeting with Pope Francis, who manage to gain Kirill as another religious leader in the conquest for peace.

EDIT:

It is tough to find the Russian church preaching video because on the Russian side of YouTube, some Christians got their channels deleted or blocked, however, articles on Kirill are still public - https://www.ruptly.tv/en/videos/20160218-062-Antarctica--Patriarch-Kirill-hails--spiritual-energy--at-Antarctic-mass

That being said, the pandemic has given the powers that be, even the United Nations, a lot of power. Something of which the common Republican, Democrat, Left/Right-winger, Lib, etc do not understand, even that of a Centrist or a Statist, hence AoC. I had already mentioned to you what the UN was trying to do because of the Charlottesville situation, but I noticed yesterday that they have a shot coming towards Abrahamic Faiths concerning homosexuality and again with the first amendment. One has to realize why is it the first few amendments, mainly the first one, the UN has a high interest in?

The irony of the situation, since we are speaking about Apostates too, this will eventually come for them, for JWs, mainly for those unaware of what is taking place behind the curtain of what the UN, the super powers, etc. are doing. As is, which can be a possibility, with turning people on their own (which they have already) without the need to remove them from their faith due to the MSM fear mongering getting the best of them, but on a Religious standpoint.

Crazy time to be alive, but many of us, me especially, is unbothered, Truthers in general are not bothered by these things because we know what comes next, even from a Christian standpoint, for some Truthers are such.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

That's a dangerous accusation to make.

Not it isn't. It is no accusation. Those who are taught about God and ultimately abandon God as is speak ill of him and or lie by means of their exegesis about him are of this fold.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

In the beginning of Christianity there was only one direct Christian way. Now however there are many 'Christian' religions.

Yet when the history is spoken in the past in this regard, you shoot away at it. This is evident because you didn't even know what Restorationism is.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

You seem to be following the Watchtower direction of pretending that if a person does not serve God in a way in which 'you approve', then they are not serving God at all.  

It isn't a Watchtower direction, so thank you for the humor. If you bothered to not only research the word Apostasy, as is the history behind it, you'd realize it, but as proven before, core Christian knowledge is not really there in you.

Did you not READ what I said to @TrueTomHarley? [Although Apostasy, being an alienation from God, it can spell disaster in some instances.]

So tell me, is homosexuality right in the eyes of God because through Jesus he accepts everyone? The answer is pretty obvious. Or how about same sex marriage? As long as both persons are in union before God and accept God, you think that is okay? Or maybe, is it right to make the claim that God was the one responsible for the Coronavirus, just so he can pass judgement? Or perhaps, the bombing of innocence men, women and children is a justice in the eyes of God for those of the US and the UK?

I guess you need a "Pink Bible" for those.

Apostasy is an alienation from God, and all things pertaining to him, even his Christ, and it can spell disaster. This just proves my case here as to which you are utterly unaware.

You have to be completely ignorant to assume this is on the Watchtower alone when everyone can see it, even the chosen ones. We also have the fact that @Kosonen was right here, as was I.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Please go and look at yourself in the mirror and examine yourself spirtually. You are happy to dig at me with this :-

Says the man who is unaware of things. You already proven yourself where you stand spiritually, as is exposed yourself to be a misguided soul.

why not? It would not surprise me if you yourself got hit by the wave as did most.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

but you actually lack the understanding of my meaning. Now whether you lack that understanding deliberately or not is not for me to judge. But for you to think you know who is alienated from God and who isn't, well I'll repeat, examine yourself. 

I pointed out 2 factors, and you have no evidence (unproven opinions) as to how I lack both understanding and meaning if [I can attest to] the Concordances for the word(s) itself is clear, as is with those who studied the Crucifixions and gave commentary insight as to who and why it can be said.

Again with the alienation. So please address the questions highlighted in blue and red. This just shows you are misguided because you did not understand the context of the point.

You should examine yourself, because last I checked, didn't realize what Strong's were, even when told, you forget, and every time there is Concordances involved, you have 0% understanding in this regard unless told by some, even me, etc.

Next time when you bring a claim, back it up because in my case, I only need to link your quotations.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

You are concerned what 'the cool folks' say ?  I prefer the words of the apostle Paul at Romans 12 : 9

And so what? What are you attempt to prove with an American saying of which you have no knowledge of?

That being said, I like how you bring Romans 12:9, yet Hermeneutical Context doesn't even correlate with the point made (which puts into question your claim of seeking and or having spiritual knowledge). JB, I thought you examined yourself spiritually here how can those having hatred of God abhor what is bad? Makes no sense (and you know it), and it shows you got it backwards, I guess you like to humor people, but of course you laugh out your mistakes - as always. This reminds me of what happened to Syrian Christians, of which the verse can be applied. A few years back the US/UK allies promised the city, and the Christians there, they will protect them, only for abandon them, resulting in the men, women and children to later be victims of terrorists, poisoners, killed, raped, forced into child marriage, slave labor, etc. Those who managed to escape made everyone aware of what happened. Why the allied forced left? Because they want their land back, and the only way to do it was to soften up even disarm the city, and abandoning them to the terrorist. They didn't care about God's Word when pretending to defend their own blood, nor did they abhor what is bad because instead of God, all they saw was their land. Also amazing how the US and the UK were hush hush about it, reasons why such ones continue to blame the US, UK and their allies.

That said, the remark is in regards to hatred towards Christians and of God and his teachings, hence the alienation, as is with unchristianization of the Word.

[haters hate because they can't appreciate, in turn, haters makes one even more famous.] - all quotations have meaning, of course.

More and more people bring forth hate and persecution to break Christians, moreover, they do not appreciate the teachings of God so they'll do anything and everything to destroy and suppress it. But Christians remain enduring and strong against such because they know if hated, they are in the right for speaking true, in this regard, famous before God and famous before those who wants to stop God's people despite every attempt being a failure. The fact that Tom was able to understand that, but you didn't speaks volume.

You speaking of Romans 12:9 is out of context here for the verses stats [Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.]

There is a verse you should have used in this regard, and it is Ephesians 4:18, which would have made more sense.

It reads [being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their heart;]

Those who hold to this category do have darken hearts. Because they reject God with their folly, they do not have in view the life of God of which he gives them, hence God being the life giver. Their hearts are also harden, so even if a Christian reasons with them, they do not listen, even if they attack or kill a Christian or do anything vile of ill intent, they hold no remorse, not to mention they rejoice at trying to break them from the inside and out. They love what is bad and wicked. They abhor ALL that is good. And they will find away to attack, as is willfully confuse Christians if need be because they do not see their err and are lost. Something of which Satan the Devil takes joy in as is a rebellious child who steals candy from another child. In rare instances, some come to their senses, and make the return to God, we even have Bible examples, un turn mirrors today.

Last I checked, you do not preach the gospel and the like you only focus on the Watchtower solely, this goes back to what I challenged you on too in 2020 before I was invited to a group to aid young people, so you do not know, thus being unaware, of things outside of your home, let alone where you live.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

"Love must be sincere. Detest what is evil; cling to what is good." 

So how does hatred of God have love when they have hate?  How can they cling to what is good, if they cling to what is bad? Again, Tom understood the point, you didn't, despite the response was solely for Tom in regards to what he said. You interjected unwisely with no understanding of things.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I left the Watchtower / Jehovah's Witnesses because I learnt that their Leaders were involved in EVIL deeds. Not only the Leaders but also many of the Elders earthwide. Since leaving I've learnt of some of the many lies they have told, scriptures they have misused, and the lack of love and mercy they show. So I will continue to HATE WHAT IS BAD. Whereas it seems, you are more interested in what 'the cool folks' say. But who are those  cool folks ? Are they part of the devils wicked world ? 

But you equate all of them as bad and evil, i.e. because of @Arauna, you equate ALL JWs to be like her, have you made every single JW? Have you met Castle? have you met Kathgar? Also Swahili JWs have been mentioned, forgot about them? You show an understanding as the Canada Church debaters from a few days ago, which is a shame.

It was said on CSE that the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses, some people who leave claim to seek a better understanding of God, but at the same time, they allow themselves to be open to falsehood, conspiracy and misinformation, and an odd exgesis. Even some who are not of any group called this out, and there was a case where Muslims, some who do not like JWs or Christians, made a fool of former JWs in their debates. You speak of lies, but you assumed the truth of the Concordances to be false, despite the Concordances did not originate with Jehovah's Witnesses, you later assumed a group existed only to be false, and now you adhere to the Smurf, who is known by ExJWs to make wild accusations about JWs.

You say you hate what is bad, but misinformation is also bad, as with apostasy, it can spell disaster. If you actually know the history of early Christianity, you'd also know that. Not once I hear you talk about the Councils, so that remains to be seen.

You haven't given any evidence to how Scripture was misused when you yourself do not know Strong's. In this case, the issue with Hands vs. Wrists (hence Concordances are always right), which has been talked about even outside of the JW faith, mainly due to the fact of how crucifixion were done and the tearing of flesh, etc. Most people do not really focus on that, but rather, if the device used was a cross or a stake.

It is an American English saying from said folks... Are you really focused on that of which you do not know the point? Laughable. Very.

That being said, it is not WISE to read into things literally, it is WISE to take in all information concerning the words and roots of the Greek text concerning hands or wrists, as is, with what the conclusion actually is. Greeks didn't' speak English back then, so let's not assume they did. In this regard, the notation isn't that much of an issue, very elementary and minor, for the real focus to many is either cross or stake.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is true that all faiths have their apostates. An apostate of the Mormons, for example, is not what JWs would consider an apostate. What we do know is apostates were a preoccupation of the New Testament writers. Not one of them fails to mention them. Peter is especially concerned with them. Jude is exclusively devoted to them and deals with nothing else. 

If it was true then, it should be true today. And nobody has apostates as voracious as Jehovah’s Witnesses. I am proud of them. They validate us. They do indeed make trouble, just as they did in the first century. On the other hand, what if the Witnesses had no apostates? Wouldn’t you have to wonder why?

As to the majority going the atheist route, that is just an impression hard to escape upon going to areas in which they hang out. The most visible ones on social media are undoubtably atheist, scornful of their former faith but also of God. It is in accord with the general trend of society that leans atheist. I don’t know if anyone has actually made a survey of it to find out the exact proportion.

Apostasy in the modern age can pose a danger indirectly too resulting in innocent bystanders to get caught in the crossfire. Most Apostates do not recognize their err in this regard and pretend as if nothing happened, and or simply blame the one whom they are against, be it a religious group and or institution. An example would be the religious group, Islam. Where wrong information was pushed forth resulting in various crimes, the rape and killing of a Muslim girl by some random person who isn't even of the faith, acid being thrown at someone and just Canadian family was ran over by someone purposely, killing them. Apostasy of Islam or those who are fearful of Islam end up blaming the people and the faith itself. Likewise in Christianity, Christians are subjected to the same thing, even manipulated in the same manner.

Although Apostasy, being an alienation from God, it can spell disaster in some instances. A parallel but can also be used as an example - We can even go as far back as the Council of Nicaea, as to when Arius died, some have said the Bishops who proclaim the Trinitarian faith rejoiced.

Now in this regard, you can have apostates bring forth a claim regarding Jesus' crucifixion. Cross or Stake, Hands or Wrist, not realizing one shouldn't be reading into this literally to conclude their own exegesis.

As the cool folks say today, haters hate because they can't appreciate, in turn, haters makes one even more famous.

That being said, Apostasy will remain for up until the conclusion of the End Times the way I see it. As for now religion and politics are the very things being hit hard by the latter, politics in general, although one has to be neutral with them, you still have to watch how they move.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

 

 

apostate

/əˈpɒsteɪt/

noun

1. a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle.

   abandoning a religious or political belief or principle. "an apostate Roman Catholic"

    

   I do wish we could all be of some agreement as to what Apostate really means. 

   It seems some here think as I do, that it renounces a religious or political belief or principle.

   Whereas others think it is turning against God and Christ. 

And your point?

I am surprised you shy away from the Biblical Description. Here you go - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g646/esv/tr/0-1/ and https://biblehub.com/greek/646.htm

That being said, there are many, MANY receipts in this regard.

43 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The vast majority of modern-day apostates have gone the atheist route.

I wouldn't say all of them. Some only become apostates by going on a warpath against God, Christ, and or become very disgruntled at a group and or institution, be it faith based or not, in turn, this results in those who are just not connected to any faith group to react/take action who do not speak out against God or anything Bible based.

This is why in most apostate media, especially the ones concerning JWs, you have those who are no longer of the faith attacking those spreading misinformation, but they are drowned out and often have accusations thrown in their direction. Mainly for those who do not know various things, like the Laws of each state for example, or even finance, if I remember there was some talk about bounds and benefactors, of which was pushed, but information for a former faith follower addressed the truth in this regard.

The irony is, among even apostates there are those who do nefarious things, for example, fighting against something, yet they practice something disgusting and or defend such ones, other times, unaware of ill action by their own.

My one of my adversaries, is semi-religious, but she is attacked in this same manner, even grossly.

Atheistism is problematic. So far I only see them unable to speak against those who are knowledgeable, hence the guys over in London.

@Pudgy Some consider the wrist part of the hand as well. Mainly if you factor it in with the latter to which the flesh can tear, holding up a body. 

15 hours ago, Thinking said:

Can you please expand on this explanation…as to what we as a people dont quiet..or deeply understand..as to the UN…I think I have an idea but I’d really like you to spell it out for me…

The United Nations is on a conquest for Security while the latter is on a conquest for Peace, the religious leaders being used as a tool in this regard. They seek to hit a few targets in their plans, as is one often mentioned here, Agenda 2030. With the pandemic, this only pushes their motives even faster, mainly with the division taking place around the globe concerning the virus, but also, broken economics, people being left back, etc, which in turn causes strife and anger between people, for when the people are each others necks, even fighting each other, it leaves them defenseless.

Most people, mainly in the US, do not trust the UN, mainly the political folk after the Charlottesville aftermath. On the other side of the spectrum, you have the religious leaders, who in turn are doing their role accordingly. You and I both know they are of Babylon, but you not knowing what they've done to sway people to their side, mainly to form an interfaith, but in the last few years it was even stronger compared to what was attempted in the early 2000s.

Although the UN is neither State or Government, they have their influence and their hands in affairs, and at the same time is often the in-between of superpowers and their allies, an example of this is former UN member Nikki Haley who was among those who pressed against a US rival (RU friendly), Syria, then we have the situation with Jayish Al-Islam and what they did, mainly to children and unsuspecting civilians in the Middle East in order to reap an emotional response of the people, and further entice the idea of branding someone as a target. The MSM is a powerful tool in this sense because people are intertwined with media they 100% believe anything said, which is problematic. It is one of those things Kosenen and I pointed out.

8 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Now this is interesting because the GB of the JW org say they are the F&DS and they say they are 'guided' by God. 

You clearly didn't get the point of what I conveyed. The JWs are not aware of the things that take place in terms of Babylon and the UN's current action.

So let me ask you, what did Babylon do right now?

8 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

One would think that if the Watchtower / JW Org was God's chosen organisation then the Leaders would have known as much as you did back then. In fact they should have known even more, and should have known before you did.  Then they should have protected their own people, rather than leave them there to suffer. 

Tell me, these rare few that know so much more than everyone else. Are they guided by God or men ? 

They were aware of what transpired in 2016 and 2017, but not of the things that took place that is unknown to everyone, i.e. what the church of Russia did afterwards with the meet up of Pope Francis.

This has nothing to do with guidance, more so, of total and absolute observance.

Not even you know what the latter has done in the UK, previously, and currently, mainly London. At least having minor awareness enables one to see the danger and take action, but those who do not can easily be swept away. But I do, and a few others because we are freakishly observant when it came to these things.

An example(s) I can give is the guy named the Trinitarian who comes here, Matthew. He didn't know the pastor of whom he defends is part of the group Babylon used to sway the people back in 2016 in the United States, and what transpired afterwards, let alone the events leading up to the events of 2016.

Another example is your frenemy, Arauna, she is aware of how dangerous the United Nations is, however, she is not aware of how the enemy is trending, an example of this is the Agenda 2030 situation, she knows what it represents, but do not know what is taking place for the agenda to pass, how the people are effected in the process, let alone how the MSM is slowly feeding people said information. Or that of JWI knew about AoC, but did not know AoC is a Statist.

In your case, you are not aware of the inner workings of the MSM, but I do. This is evident in the discussion of Australia some months back when you didn't know what the agenda was for the Alt-Right.

That bein said, as long as they are aware of what they see on the surface, they can evade the waves of both Babylon and the Beast, some will falter if pressure is put on them, to others, they hold to endurance to maintain themselves until the very end. Likewise with even religious folk, or even religious leaders who are looked upon as enemies to those of Babylon.

As for your minor remark, God gave us the ability to be observant, so we can be prepared as well as see a danger before it takes place, as is with trending carefully - Ps. 22:3; Eph 5:15.

10 hours ago, Pudgy said:

I have carefully read the preceding conspiracy theories, opinions, conjectures, observations, wild-ass guesses, and delusional paranoid nattering nabobs of negativity, and would like to offer an alternative explanations to the more prevalent fantasys being extolled and advocated here .........

 

.... words are often a mere shadow of their true meaning ....

I can relate to that because I have debated conspiracy theorists before, the legit ones, not the the alleged ones the MSM brands people.

Sadly, but true, there are conspiracy theorists in the Abrahamic Faiths (i.e. those who believe God as given people superpowers by means of magic.... Yeah it gets that weird), some of which, I had mentioned before.

That being said, this "IBSA conspiracy" can be considered debunked.

@Patiently waiting for Truth The Jehovah's Witnesses were AFTER the Schisms, 3 of them to be exact. Likewise with the other groups, even the DBSA. 

And no, do not make assumptions, that information only took 2 minutes of research, that is elementary knowledge just by the history itself.

If you forgot, here is the image again, you should know this because you are a former Jehovah's Witness, granted you always said because you were once part of the faith, you knew everything:

You made the claim that the IBSA still exist, it was already known of Associated and Free Bible Students, and how the JWs came to be as noted below:

19 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

There are 5 Associated Bible Students, DBSA is included among them, then there are the Free Bible Students, 3, making it a total of 8. Max number being 11, which includes the Laymen's, Jehovah's Witnesses, and The Free Man Group. There are other groups that came out of the Associated and Free branches, but I am focusing on the early ones of which DBSA is a part of.

So you are attempting to justify a UK only based Charity? Your own quotation kills your resolve:

8 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Promoting the Christian religion by helping congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses & others with their spiritual & material welfare. We provide facilities for the production of Bible literature & housing for members of the order of special full-time servants. Conventions for Christian education are arranged & the public are invited.

You were asked on activities, not names also...

Not to mention your link leads to sources that shows Data analytics for for financials, you were asked on recent activities of the IBSA itself (of which you claim are still active DESPITE the schisms), as in gospel preaching and the like. Not to mention you deliberately, and knowingly went around history to justify misinformation. That is essentially lying on purpose.

As a side note, your original link has no connection at all, so it shows you are just looking for something to justify nothing.

That being said, the focus originally was about FACTS over OPINION. Just this IBSA thing alone, you made an unproven statement. You later tried to use the above to justify yourself which ultimately puts you in error.

Again, misinformation, misconception, opinions with no factual backing.

You asked before what it takes to achieve knowledge and or understanding of core teachings, the answer was very simple - Research. In this case, only a few seconds of searching, which you could have done instead of jumping to your own conclusions, which was seen as a bluff.

What makes it even worse now, in regards to Witness' remark, you just proved the GB to be in the right when it comes to people jumping to conclusions without having all the facts and going about listening to misinformation to draw your own conclusion, mainly from things that former witnesses use and conjure up some narrative to intertwined it with something; mixing what is seen by the public with false information.

There is a saying we have in the US, that fits this type of situation - Congratulations, you just played yourself. 

Anyway, it is very easy to find the activities of the other groups in regards to their gospel spreading, etc. as is the difference between them; from the Associated Bible Student Factions and the Free Bible Student Factions, as well as apart from the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Free Man group, again with DBSA, their recent activities, in example (http://www.dawnbible.com/2021/2108cl-1.htm), likewise with what was quoted before.

That real estate notation is irrelevant. If it was International (definition - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/international), it would not be secluded to the UK only, likewise with your latter link, which goes a contradiction on your part.

That being said, if the IBSA existed today, there wouldn't even be groups that came out of it, which is why I asked you to answer question 1 and 2. IBSA would still be active, even maintain their Restorationists roots and go about how those in Restorationism operate - The DBSA would not exist, The Layman's and the Free Man, or any of the Associated/Free Bible Student groups would not exist because they'd all already be under the umbrella of the IBSA, an international group with the same motive and operation. Even the Jehovah's Witnesses would not exist, nor the name "Jehovah's Witnesses" would ever be given at all. There wouldn't be any Schisms, no Rutherford or anyone else, etc. But that, my friend, is in a different realm of reality, an imaginative one, a "What If" type situation.

When you discover time travel, JB, perhaps you can do whatever you wish, alter the timeline so to speak.

All that said, you show yourself an example of someone who goes about unproven things, misinformation and the like - and now, it is shown for all to see, so you should have kept that IBSA card tucked away in your pockets, so to speak.

38 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

http://www.internationalbiblestudents.org/

Who are the Bible Students?"

The association of International Bible Students has existed continuously since the days of Pastor Charles Taze Russell to the present. In Brother Russell's day, the IBSA was a cooperative association of Bible Student congregations worldwide, all united by the common beliefs taught in Brother Russell's Studies in the Scriptures series. The Watchtower was merely a publishing house and lecture service, with NO central control over these thousands of associated, but independent congregations.

I presume this is out of date then ? 

 

lol you can't be serious? The link says international bible students, but the website in question is an archived database of what the IBSA was when it existed. IF you are trying to humor me, you just did.

Evidence to that is archived information with no updates, the website even tells you they do not produce anything. That statement you stated says who are the Bible students, it does not make any indication of the IBSA itself, granted, from the IBSA several groups were formed, in this case, the Jehovah's Witnesses.

More so history isn't your strong point, and you simply set yourself up badly here.

There has not been any update on that website, and it has a collection and even archives of what was professed by them and others, i.e. links takes you elsewhere to information that isn't in associated with IBSA. The links relay to other sources that isn't of IBSA, more so, does not even associate with IBSA. and it is not secure (very telling when source is checked, meaning anything can be put there).

Something tells me you pulled the first item off of a google search, when to the "about" page to copy that quote. Therefore - You sought to Excalibur, but you found a wooden sword instead.

This also pushes the fact that to Res Lite's credit, and the evidence, the group broken into different groups, as shown here, this picture below can also be found online for the general public to see.

There are 5 Associated Bible Students, DBSA is included among them, then there are the Free Bible Students, 3, making it a total of 8. Max number being 11, which includes the Laymen's, Jehovah's Witnesses, and The Free Man Group. There are other groups that came out of the Associated and Free branches, but I am focusing on the early ones of which DBSA is a part of.

That being said, you walked into a bear trap with this one for your claim. Let's see if you can hold to your so called source.

2 Questions for you since you provided this link:

Question 1 - If the IBSA is present today as you claim, then why do Free and Associated Bible Students and the latter, such as groups similar to DBSA exist after the schisms?? If the IBSA existed, there wouldn't be a need for such groups and JWs would not even be here. 

Question - 2 From your link, as you claim the IBSA is active today, can you name a few updates from the years 2020 and 2021? What updates have they done so far concerning God and or Scripture (Remember - the IBSA was a unified group since it's inception)? I can give you a list of DBSA activities [1950-1963], even recent updates [2020-2021], I have information on the other ones, but since I brought forth Res Lite, he will be my example. They differ from other Bible Students as well as the JWs themselves.

In fact, here is the most recent information about them:

Quote

• Today the Dawn continue publication of Russell's Studies in the Scriptures, as well as booklets written by various Bible Students. They also produce radio and television programs.

 

• Current membership in America is difficult to estimate from the number of conventions. In the late 1980s they had a membership of about 60,000.

 

• In 2007 The Dawn Magazine 75th Anniversary 1932–2007 gave a brief history of the group.

 

• DBSA actually has a notable location - Longwood, FL

Clearly this group is active.

So I will wait since you want to make make the claim.

As pointed out,

You'll have to explain why you suggest the IBSA exist today when there are different associated and free Bible students that came out of them, as well as the JWs. For if they existed, the JWs may not have even been existing as we speak.

Second, you stated they are active despite the fact their time has passed. If they are active as you claim, can you bring up any recent activity from them, by quotation and a source?

That is what is on the table right now.

I'll wait. and there is a meme for that one too, which seems to be right for this occasion:

Also other facts, which shows us the IBSA eventually broke into various groups (You do not have to read it but it is here so people can see your folly)

Quote

1909 - Even when Russell was still alive, some Bible Students didn’t accept a new understanding and decided to move away. They are called the “Free Bible Students”, and it seems most of them are in Australia. It is claimed that there are more that 100 members today.

In April they decide to publish their own magazine and set up their own society in lieu of the Watch Tower Society, called the Pastoral Bible Institute. But Johnson and one of the three remaining directors objected that a new Society was unscriptural because it contradicted certain interpretations of Bible prophecies by Johnson. Johnson is reproved for spreading his own teachings without the approval of the committee.

In November Johnson decided to publish a periodical to counter the Watch Tower and the PBI and to present the epiphany truths that, from his standpoint, are a further development of the parousia truths. By 1920 he had set up his own entity called Laymen’s Home Missionary Movement, whose doctrine is seen as the extension of that of Russell.

In Portland, in December, some Bible Students considered that the Watch Tower wasn’t firmly enough against the war and formed their own group, called the Stand Fast Bible Students Association. The Elijah Voice Society would be created in 1923 to try to join together the different congregations, but I think this group hasn’t survived.

In December, the Pastoral Bible Institute began publishing their own magazine, The Herald. It is still published on the Internet.

Also, in Australia it was created the Berean Bible Institute, for those congregations of Bible Students which didn’t accept the Watch Tower Society. Today it is estimated that there are still several dozens of members.

@ApostaBabe Linda James There is a war, an ongoing one. The Jehovah's Witnesses speak on this, but there is more going on that they do not know about, even as a whole, those that do are among the rare few. They are aware of the United Nations and Babylon, and what they are capable of, but do not know the operations of them as of recent, for, in the JWs case, the situation with Russia, with events that took place before their banning (like 2016 in regards to religion, and 2017 in regards to the general public), and what essentially replaced them. Speaking of 2016, what Babylon did was a clear indicator of who is on who's side.

As I mentioned time and time again, the things to come will break some Christians, granted men are imperfect, they can fold easily if not strong enough, and JWs are not immune to this due to the fact they, like all, consist of imperfect people, some of which who has and can give into sin.

On the other side of the spectrum, history is being changed, rewritten, an indoctrination hidden by the educational institutions to shift children into a new form of thinking, the very reason parents and guardians nowadays are battling this system.

The enemy that is Babylon and the Beast has many branches, and a fight takes place on every branch.

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

What I seem to notice is that JWs (or pretend JWs) will use outside information when it suits them, and discard outside information when it does not fit with their ideas. 

Where is your evidence concerning the ideas? If you paid attention the focus was on their view, and the outside views are merely secondary, even those that pretend your former faith.

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Now regarding 2034. Surely it does not matter how many people have 'come to this conclusion' ?  Firstly, why are people needing to find a date ?  And why would JWs need to trust the words of 'worldly' men or men of other 'faiths' ? 

Date pertaining to what? Because you confused various events with God's Day 3 times now. This is why you were called out when you used Mark 13:32, which has nothing to do with 120/2034 concerning Genesis 6:3-4 for some.

If Rando was pointing directly to God's Day, likewise with Res and @JW Insider, then you'd have a case here. There are a group of people who believe 2034 is God's Day, and these folks aren't JWs, in fact, the link I cited yesterday even proves that. ExJws attest that JWs alluded to and believe God's Day will take place in 2034, pushing the notation that they made this claim and or pushed this idea.

In Rando's case he seems more focused on fulfillment and events as is warnings that correlate with Noah's Day. Even more evidence to that is from the 2003 Watchtower, which was linked (only took minimum research to find) of which the focus concerning Noah derives from, yet you ignored it. Here it is again - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2003923

The irony here is you link JW stuff from time to time, why not this one?

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

At this point I would question, is 2034 a Watchtower / JW Org teaching, or is it just a Rando teaching ? 

You say this now, yet you earnestly attempt to speak of Newton.

The notation of 2034 did not originate with Jehovah's Witnesses. If you have people like Isaac Newton going about it, this alone shows it predates even the founder of the Bible Students himself. So much so, even modern Day Bible Students by their notation constitutes to that.

That being said, it can be said here that the Jehovah's Witnesses went on with what pastor Russell himself came to understand, and to JWI's credit - his findings was on point, clear cut.

Why question when the information and findings are presented? The real question is did you even bother to read said findings that JWI brought up (the thread of which he mentioned you in).

This is minor but this 2034 year is so spoken of by those in the religious space, that it was allegedly found in a graphic video game novel, ironically enough, with JWs being a faction.

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Are you suggesting that JWs have only 'true' information ?  This, you see, is an important matter.

I'm suggesting that those who dive into misconceptions tend to come up with their own ideas and opinions about something or someone without research, discernment, etc. This is highly evident with how you are utterly unaware of Strong's and context at times, which you exposed yourself in this matter; others merely call it out.

Ok if the matter is this important, can you tell us HOW and WHY @BroRando came up with this conclusion?

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

The Watchtower / JW org is truthful on some matters, but that does not mean they are honest in all things. However the general consensus on this forum is that if a person leaves the JW Org, then they have left God, or left the 'truth'. 

So now you spin a contradiction. Here you say they are right and or wrong at times, but other times you say they are wrong 100%?, often times constantly mentioned GB, csa, and a list of other things - Which is it?

No, that isn't the general consensus of this forum. A FORUM is a discussion space, this one in particular is just as that, and it was a place of debate before all the changes.

In this discussion, we are focused on the 2034 notation, and the misinformation pieces brought up and Traditions of Men, which you brought up, but cannot even bring forth evidence to.

It does not matter if you are currently a Jehovah's Witness, or a former, what matters is information.

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

So, are you saying that none of the Watchtower / JW Org teachings can be 'misinformation' ?

If you read my comments, you'd know what I am pointing to. You do not have to agree/disagree with JWs, but to go about misinformation only allows for others to be misguided, confused and start spouting opinions can most often be unproven. Even outside of the JW faith, this is the same with those who spread misinformation or their own ill opinion about Scripture.

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Are you saying that the Governing Body of the Watchtower can not have 'misconceptions' ? 

Not once I mentioned the religious leaders directly, so where are you drawing this statement?

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Yes, by @JW Insider references, Russell tied himself up in knots with dates, predictions and then doubts about it all. 

Yet here you are confusing various events of fulfillment with God's Day. If you looked at what JWI's comments, you'd see what his conclusions were exactly in regards to Rando.

The fact you made this statement ultimately proves that you didn't even bother to read, let alone the comments made against you on that thread - I even quoted JWI, interestingly you did not catch that.

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

But quite funny that Russell thought that people would still be reading his books now. The International Bible Students which still exist, seem to support Russell I think. 

International Bible Students had since pass. Where have you been? Such ones are called the DBSA best known as Dawn Bible Students Association. They're often called Russellites (which they do not refer to themselves as such because it is Sectarian). Outside of JWs, they are the ones to defend Russell with extreme prejudice - mostly semi active in the US and in the UK.

Res Lite is a, in his words, Hellbent on Finding truth to the Scriptures. Res Lite is a Christian who studied Russell for a long time, 7-8 decades of research and study, and often comes to blows with JWs who do not know Russell too well and ExJWs who attack Bible Students. Res Lite does not like ExJWs due to what happened back in 2017, as is, with those attempting to claim that he is a Freemason, which that in of itself is false and misinformation often promoted by former JWs and weaponized to use against current Jehovah's Witnesses (and DBSAs, as is with Yah followers). Some DBSAs other than Res have put some of their findings out there, mainly to bring a gap, as to others, they invest their lives in the past.

You think? The known information is fact. Again, it does not take that much time to do quick research.

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Since Rutherford started the new organisation of the JWs there must have been a hundred books written by them, most of which have now been removed. They keep saying they have 'new light'. 

JWs are new, they were originally Bible Students. After the death of Pastor Russell, Rutherford took over, and it wasn't until the late 1920s - early 1930s, the name change from Bible Students to Jehovah's Witnesses took place.

How are you so sure they removed all books?

Ok, and what point are you suggesting that they say new light? Again, Restorationists are this common when they come to a new discovery in Scripture or an understanding of something.

7 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

So, is 2034 'new light' or just some peoples dream ? 

How is it new light if it was most likely brought up by those who predate Bible Students themselves?

The difference between the views of 2034 are mentioned already - Rando was put into 1 out of the 3 categories, Newton and the others, which can easily be identified.

21 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

So there seems to be 3 views for 2034

• Those who believe the End of the World is to take place; God's Day taking place.
• Those who believe that events concerning fulfillment is to take place.
• Those who believe Jesus will actually appear, a second coming, prior to God's Day.

One can only see this if they have a basic understanding of Rando's view and what JWI made note to.

For it is known that various things are to take place before God's Day, of which we do not know the time and day, of which Mark 13:32 actually fits.

So that being said, if Rando fits the second one, why are you stating he is suggesting something totally different? As mentioned you made the claim 3 times.

21 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Dogs were ceremonially unclean animals and not likely to have been pets in Jewish homes.  They were wild carnivorous animals.  Job a non-Jew had flocks of dogs, but none are mentioned among Jewish shepherds.

Look it it in the Insight Book.  

Paul was from Jewish background, so his customs would have been Jewish, although later he came to embrace all nations of men.  It would be unlikely that Paul would have been accompanied by something revolting to the Jews.  He had enough problems already and a dog accompanying him would not have helped. 

Interesting, but not particularly beneficial to pursue this.

I seconded this.

That being said, if Paul did have a dog, or a number of dogs, the likelihood of him being attacked while preaching the gospel would be reduce.

16 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I will not be drawn out on this issue. I do not want some one to use it as an excuse to remove me from here. 

No one is going to remove you for anything. Confessing your problems and speaking truth resolves you of this much heat going your way. You live by your word. Being truthful to oneself sets one free.

16 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

My point about those two early Christians was that they disagreed, went seperate ways, but still forgave each other. 

But you latched on something that is outside of that point, which does not really hold merit. You simply took an example and tried to equate it to what is taking place.

In this regard, you and Rando. You quickly went to his neck regarding 2034, not even seeing as to HOW and WHY he reached that conclusion, you didn't even give JWI findings a chance, to which he gave an ample amount of information.

16 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Indeed Christians can break and some do. However having left the JW Org I feel spiritually stronger because i have to 'go it alone' as far as people are concerned. My faith in God through Christ is stronger and that is what matters to me. 

Have a good day.

But you prove the point by most that former JWs are not usually that strong in the faith because they give in to misconceptions and misinformation. They do not throw themselves into deep study afterwards, be it you agree or disagree with JWs. This is evident in some of the responses you give in some threads, even the recent ones.

You need to be spiritual stronger because what you are in right now is what your name suggest "waiting for truth". You ignore any counsel for research even when it has nothing to do with faith groups, so how can one build faith if does not take care of his spiritual needs?

You will need to do more because as someone who has been in the trenches, and knows who is actually a threat to the faith, differs very much to those who make the claim.

As one of the chosen, or as you say, True Anointed, said before he passed, anyone can be or say they are a Christian but do they show it by their word and action? Use discernment to know who is on your side and who is not.

My days are always good, as humble as the next day and the next. You have a good day, mainly in your current situation.

That being said, it would be wise to look into why 2034 was brought up.

I won't link it again, look at what JWInsider said, do not ignore it this time. You do not have to care what I call you out for, but you are known to pay attention to what he says, so apply that:

3 minutes ago, BroRando said:

• Isaac Newton’s Search for God
• NEWTON WRESTLES WITH THE TRINITY DOCTRINE
• WHY NEWTON REJECTED THE TRINITY

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1977284?q=isacc+newton&p=doc

Trinitarians to this day deem Newton as a Freemason and a Heretic because he rejects the Trinity.

I found another Trinity vs Anti Trinity source in this regard, with the inclusion of Newton this time - https://www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/1224601-no-time-times-running-out-6.html

They sourced this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_Newton

The real question is, was there anyone else who held a view with 2034 included after Newton and before Jehovah's Witnesses/Bible Students and some of Christendom?

4 minutes ago, BroRando said:

Warned of “Things Not Yet Beheld”

6. What did Jehovah determine to do in Noah’s day?

⁶ In Noah’s day, Jehovah declared: “My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years.” (Genesis 6:3) The issuance of this divine decree in 2490 B.C.E. marked the beginning of the end for that ungodly world. Just think what that meant for those then living! Only 120 years more and Jehovah would bring “the deluge of waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active from under the heavens.”—Genesis 6:17.

[https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2003923]

1914 marks the beginning of the end for this ungodly world.  Only 120 years more and the end for Satan's System of things will start dissolving!  

It's Spiritual... 

2 Peter 3:10 But Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be exposed.

Unbelievers are not allowed to SEE... turn around!  "You are going the Wrong Way"  Quote taken from the movie, Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. 😀

 

The article in question may have been used out of context by some, in regards to the 120 range of years, people go to this article. So in regards to what you said and this article it can easily be deduced to warning events and the like, hence what I mentioned to Srecko. I am still researching on more that Reslite mentioned, as is the Bible students concerning 2034, because for them, they fit your view along with Newton's view

14 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

But that is basically straight from God's word. It doesn't take a genius to understand that.

Once again, this is written in God's word. So it seems he read the Bible.  Bibles were available in English from the 1550's if my research is correct. 

Everyone knows this a quotation. You didn't know about Newton in regards to 2034 until it was brought up. Issacs Newton was not much of a Bible reader, but, he was someone interesting in God and knows Jesus is God's Son not God himself, hence the fight with the Trinity Troop. The only reason he was called a heretic, a mason, a false prophet was due to the fact he didn't believe Jesus is God, hence the link to the thread involving JWs, Ex-JWs and LDS going at it, that is, if you even check links.

Regarding 1550s, this is already known. What research have you done for 1550? This is the only time Newton was mentioned. Newton the type to call out Scripture errors of the Church.