Space Merchant

12 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Once again that is only your opinion. I stop when I realize I'm wasting my time reading. 

The links says otherwise.

12 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

The meme is a very touchy subject that I will not get drawn into. You know why as I mentioned so at the time. 

You made an accusation, without even acknowledging the quotation equates to it.

That being said, both yield the same reaction, and the same accusation.

14 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Paul and Barnabas had a disagreement, they even went separate ways, but they both forgave one another. However you seem to have judged me and you tell me that i do not forgive others. So be it. You have chosen to think that way. 

Both Paul and Barnabas did have their disagreements and forgave each other, however, neither of them attribute to misinformation and opinions deemed unproven.

Discernment, hence, 1 John 4:1, do not get it confused, so much so, when one knows what assertiveness represents.

If you forgot, Christian can act upon discernment, mainly in seeing the reaction by means of responses as is with how swiftly you made the remark with acknowledgment of the citations and quotes, i.e. to Res and JWI's credit. That is how powerful those links are.

18 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Once again the only thing i take from your long comment is that you continue to judge me.  I hope it helps you to build your faith in God through Christ. For surely we will all be judged in due time. 

So is it judgment that you were incorrect on what Tradition of Men is? Perhaps Acts 15? OR maybe how Christians react when preaching the gospel towards those of a different background and culture?

My faith in God and Christ has not changed, nor has it detracted. But is is surely strong enough to call out claims and accusations.

There is no question in that, God passes judgement, but God will be the one to tell you as to why you allow yourself to succumb to information deemed murky or untrue? Quite the sight to see of someone in this regard on in front of the white throne.

That being said, you still have a lot to learn if in one of the links you ran about your own confusion. This is why I said to Arauna and Rando that Christians can break like glass should enduring events take place.

Like that of Noah's Day, people are too in their own verbose nature to even consider what is being spoken, so much so for most today.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Maybe what Rando is doing is just an overreaction, similar to the ones about 1914, 1918/19, 1925, 1941, 1975 and everything/all other after that?  

WTJWorg eschatology in action. 

Certainly, people will eat, drink, marry, build and plant. Some/many of them will be struck by trouble, because trouble is a part of life in the world as we know it. Some of the troubles that have happened or are happening today, have been / are at the local or even global area / level. This allows for interpretations / overreactions followed by disappointments many times over. 

 

Well it isn't too far fetched. I am doing some more digging into this again, even going back to CSE; found out Catholics talked about this too, hence April 9, 2034, Saint Casilda.

The more I go down this tomb, the more information I find. Not only do other Christians speak of 2034 besides JWs, but the only person to predate everyone in this regard is Isaac Newton.

It is noted that:

End of the world vs. start of the millennial kingdom

In his posthumously-published Observations upon the Prophecies of Daniel, and the Apocalypse of St. John, Newton expressed his belief that Bible prophecy would not be understood "until the time of the end", and that even then "none of the wicked shall understand". Referring to that as a future time ("the last age, the age of opening these things, be now approaching"), Newton also anticipated "the general preaching of the Gospel be approaching" and "the Gospel must first be preached in all nations before the great tribulation, and end of the world".[38]

Over the years, a large amount of media attention and public interest has circulated regarding largely unknown and unpublished documents, evidently written by Isaac Newton, that indicate he believed the world could end in 2060. While Newton also had many other possible dates (e.g. 2034),[39] he did not believe that the end of the world would take place specifically in 2060.[40]

• [38]    Observations upon the Prophecies of Daniel, and the Apocalypse of St. John by Sir Isaac Newton, 1733, J. DARBY and T. BROWNE, Online

• [39]     Snobelen, Stephen D. "Statement on the date 2060". Archived from the original on 15 October 2013. Retrieved 4 February 2014.

• [40]    "A time and times and the dividing of times": Isaac Newton, the Apocalypse and 2060 AD Snobelen, S Can J Hist (2003) vol 38 Archived 21 February 2014 at the Wayback Machine

So there seems to be 3 views for 2034

• Those who believe the End of the World is to take place; God's Day taking place.
• Those who believe that events concerning fulfillment is to take place.
• Those who believe Jesus will actually appear, a second coming, prior to God's Day.

Seeing what Rando is talking about, he fits in the second description, granted he speaks of Noah's Day.

22 hours ago, BroRando said:

What question was Jesus answering?   “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”

You still don't know the sign?  Now that's funny.  I imagine you as a blind man trying to turn on the light switch when the light is already on....  I Love It!

Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.

Yet the time limit was already embedded in prophecy in the Book of Daniel...  1914

Jesus goes on and says... For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be.  For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the Presence of the Son of man will be.

According to Scripture, the troubling events before the conclusion of the End Times, which is why it correlates with why Noah's Day is the focus point. For in his day, people heard the message and did not pay it any mind until the Great Flood. This, as stated to JB, is akin to present day in which the same mentality and action is taking place, even concerning the gospel, like in Noah's Day, people react as they are, some listen, some do not.

Not knowing the day, is fine, for it keeps one on their feet in the faith so they do not stumble, and for those who stumble, they can stand back up (Proverbs 24:16). Not to mention that God's Christ instructed the preaching of the gospel, so it is a call for us to take total seriousness in the Great Commission, something of which a few cannot do properly and or ignore it altogether, as to others, they understand the Commission, but preaching things outside of core Christian teachings. The Gospel, is to be shared with all, men, women, and children, even of other faiths should they be misguided in the Christianity of Constantine, in addition to that, what JB cannot understand is, the backgrounds and culture of everyone is different, so you cannot simply go about to preach to so and so, so one would need to apply Apostle Paul's example as shown in 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.

22 hours ago, BroRando said:

hehehe.. he is blind and stumbling around bumping into things, he then curses other people because he is blind....  it's an allotment of time.  Give him the answers and he would still fail the test.  This is  grrrreat!!!   That's why it doesn't matter if Satan has the answers... HE CAN'T SEE....

Emotion in this sense results in people giving into their own misgivings. Like that of Anakin becoming Vader, it was, in this analogy, one going berserk in their own feelings thus being in total disregard to even to a pebble of truth.

Men are imperfect, at times they do not know what they are doing at times until it becomes a reality and or until they find some positive resolve. Something of which I deal with for a while now when aiding to a community I have been a part of for sometime. Some of the people, mainly children, got it rough, the reach one teach one solution is beneficial. Such ones also rejoice in principles from Scripture that helps them become better too.

22 hours ago, BroRando said:

It's Spiritual....  2034 will come and go and those outside our inner rooms will be dying the second death of everlasting destruction... that is Armageddon!  Destroyed as with Fire... but they will still complain to their end....  😖

As I pointed out to JB, JWs and a few others bring up 2034 time and time again in regards to events of the End Times, to others, Jesus' return, to some, God's Day, but going with Noah's Day, it seems to equate more to events to come as pointed out, more so, in turns of warning before anything big beyond our knowing comes to pass.

The irony of all this is that the United Nations have plans for the 2030s. Granted with the pandemic ongoing, people do not pay attention to their movements. Babylon isn't too far behind.

As I told @Arauna some Christians, concerning persecution, can break like glass smashing against a stone if they are not strong enough, and knowing the history of your faith with the Nazis, it wouldn't be surprise some fall prior to any events and or God's Day. I say this because of what Babylon the Great did in 2016 with just Mainstream Christianity alone. And of course when friends and family becoming foes, in the coming days.

Many of us Truthers know this, even the late Solider of God, who he himself is chosen, said this. This is why it is wise to know who is friend or foe in those days when people can easily become weak.

That being said, 2034 has been talked about by many, a few times on CSE it was brought up, even by, surpassingly, Catholics, 2034 Easter celebration, for them they are looking at April 9, 2034.

Not important but there was a 3 way wrestling match with LDS/JWs/Ex-JWs from 2004 I found, which talks about 2034, and the article in question I cited to @Patiently waiting for Truth as cited here - https://www.christianforums.com/threads/i-know-nothing-about-jw.722579/page-5

Some Mainstream Christians saw 2034 as the second coming, as cited here; although they added things here that do not make sense, let alone the claim of being inspired:

• If my dream was from God, and I believe it was, then it means that Jesus is returning around the year 2034 which is about fourteen years from now! Hallelujah. Now, let us do the maths of this dream. Because her baby who is nine months old in 2020 was about twelve years old in the dream, we must add about eleven to the year 2020. This takes us to about 2031. Further recall that in this dream the Anti-Christ had about three and a half years before Jesus’ return. So, to the year about 2031, we must add three and a half years. This takes us to about 2034/5! My dream was in 2014. It pointed to about 2034 as the year Jesus would return. Elizabeth’s dream was also in 2014; it also pointed to about 2034. Six years later in 2020, Esther who did not know the details of either mine or Elizabeth’s dream also had a dream that pointed her to about 2035. Is this all just coincidence? Or could it be that the Devil is ‘playing’ with the three of us? Most probably not. (source)

So many people are waiting, even elderly folks. But as stated, I do not think it has anything pertaining to God's Day of which we do not know.

23 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I gave up half way through your ramblings. And yes it's good that you hound me, just as the Pharisees hounded Jesus. 

You give up when someone checks you. I refute because you refuse to understand what is mentioned, and you do not adhere to context, this goes back to you not knowing what a man girdled up actually met, likewise with anything pertaining to Strong's.

For a man who seeks God, perhaps take your head out of the jar of which your former faith is, and actually do the research; when you asked about "Core Teachings of Christianity", the answer to that was of total seriousness.

That being said, that comment of yours can easily be reverse uno-carded back to you with one link. So thread carefully - and clearly with everything and anything you uttered, is in the deck in question.

That being said, Jesus was a sympathetic person, he does not shift himself, likewise to those who express the same towards him, willing to listen. They do not shift like the sea after a few moments - Hebrews 4:15.

23 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

As for opinions, everyone on here is just going by their own opinions. NO ONE is inspired of God's Holy Spirit. Even the JWs disagree amongst themselves. 

We're not talking about inspiration. We are talking about opinions and facts here, and you are only repeating yourself.

Let's take Jehovah's Witnesses out of the equation - How did you confuse, and or not discern the difference Traditions of Men vs. Christian Traditions? Someone who understands context, and all facts pertaining to Scripture would easily be able to discern what is what, and why this is, and how something has come to be.

Clearly if one has the spirit, they would not go on a tangent of something that can be discerned quickly.

23 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Rando mentions the 120 years in his first comment, which we know he relates to 1914 and comes out with 2034. So you are saying 'other people' are saying that 2034 is 'the year'.  I don't really care what 'people' are saying when it comes to naming a specific year, because we are told that NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR. So those that are spending their time pretending to know, are working against God and Christ Jesus. 

JB, we all read what Rando has said. I merely pointed out that others, even modern day Bible Students mentioned that year in relations to events. Noticed you left that part out.

SM -  it isn't too far-fetched because although not anything pertaining to God's Day, there are those who hold an expectation of something that is to take place in 2034, series of events

So much so both Reslite and JWI were mentioned, as is cited - which you could have easily skipped to that and read it.

Now, you are now confusing the events concerning fulfillment in connection with the Christ with God's Day. If you read what Reslite and JWI mentioned, you would not interject with your own assumption - as stated, going upon your own opinions can be dangerous, in this case, damaging towards you.

Examples below:

JWI - However, there were a few months between November 1913 and July 1914 when Russell admitted that he was questioning his own expectations about 1914, and he even suggested that perhaps things could just go on for another century, and he wondered what people might think of all these predictions "100 years from now" (which would be 2014). Another time he mentioned what things might still be like if the time of trouble went on for 120 years (which would bring one to 2034).... Russell did not really think anything specific was supposed to happen in either 2014 or 2034. Russell gave no specific significance to those periods except to make the point that he no longer had as much confidence in the 1914 date.

Reslite - Nevertheless, when viewed from God’s standpoint, we are still “shortly after” 1914. Although Russell himself did not think the time of trouble would be this long, he did allow that it could be. Some Bible Students believe that it is possible that the time allotted for this period is 120 years (1914+120=2034), but that these days will be “cut short” some time before they are allowed to reach their end.

That being said, you quoting Mark 13:32 (rf. Matt. 24:36, Mark 13:31, Acts 1:7), this is concerning God's Day, for if you forgot, it is in regards to Armageddon.

In Rando's case, the 120 year is in connection with Genesis 6:3-4, concerning Noah's Day into the 1914 notation held by JWs.

23 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

You say "But you do not really forgive anyone"  How wrong you are.

Do you hold on to that statement boldly? Because all your remarks, claims, assumptions and the like including reactions can be cited.

If that was the case, that sympathetic counsel from before would have stuck instead of you going around it as, showing that fact that it met nothing.

23 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

You say that I get angry.  Once again How wrong you are.  

You are woefully incorrect, for not too long ago a meme made made you react in this manner. All the other things, even the citation from the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) resulted in you making a similar claim as to what you said in regards to the meme.

For if none of such were true, I would not make such a statement.

All I need is a quote and a link, as with the other remark.

23 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Because I am assertive you presume I am angry. but you are wrong. You have chosen to judge me. You have chosen to hound me. You have chosen to 'think' that you are right about matters. So be it. But in reality you have just jumped onto the bandwagon with Tom and Arauna and others.

That isn't assertiveness. Being assertive is finding the right balance between passivity and aggression. It means having a strong sense of oneself and your value, and acknowledging that one deserve to get what they sought after, achieving. If you were true to your own words, as stated before a meme would not cause you to react in that manner, an assertive person would simply brush it off, and not shut himself away from something so minor and meaningless.

This isn't a judgement, it is clear discernment. If someone reacts in such a manner, and in their choice of words, it shows, thus all remarks in this regard is true.

I haven't chosen to "hound you" I corrected you on a few Strong's then you added tacked on all the other stuff, knowing that I'd respond to it, as seen on page 5. It is already known by you how I am with Strong's.

It isn't about Tom or Arauna. It is about the FACTS. I mentioned them because you are always intertwined with them in nearly all discussion, even for the period of absence.

Going back to page 1 regarding Noah's Day, you claim of assertiveness is pretty much null too due to you even mentioning Arauna when it was not necessary to do so, and this was not the first time, you do this with others.

Your issue is, you want everything to be as so, no one to show factual information and to accept as is. Truthers do not run with that mindset, mainly to those who relentlessly defend Scripture and core teachings and practices of the apostolic church, as is, with calling out those who speak misconception of someone or something.

23 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

do continue to forgive everyone that dislikes me and that talks against me and that accuses me of things. Jesus said that anyone that followed him would suffer in such ways. 

Discernment tells a different story, hence why I uphold 1 John 4:1. Jesus always wants his followers to be truthful. It is problematic to answer to falsehood and professing it, likewise to go about things deemed unproven, such as you not really knowing what the term Tradition of Men is, and equating it to something else. More so, you being a former Jehovah's Witness, who do not even know as to how your own operate in a setting where people of different backgrounds and culture react to someone who isn't like them.

That being said, do the research and look into all sources of information in regards to what Rando is talking about. If you did your DD, you find this - Watchtower 2003 December 15 pp.14-19 Our Watchfulness Takes On Greater Urgency [https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2003923]

Regarding the Jehovah's Witnesses, this is where the viewpoint originated from concerning events; warning signs of the End Times, according to them.

EDIT:

Ah yes there it is, the reaction. latter is null, which was proven once again.

Some people do not believe he died on a cross, but a wooden beam/tree of some kind. Most of mainstream Christendom will state that the Jehovah's Witnesses only make remark to this, however, most Christians outside of the mainstream believe the Cross isn't what Jesus was crucified on, and that the Cross is pagan, in addition, the remark that people care more about the cross than the Christ is also noted, more so, to how it was involved with various things and persons, namely, Constantine.

It also proves problematic because the pagan roots are so visible, people often equate Christianity to paganism, on the other side of the spectrum, Freemasons themselves have also adopted the cross in order to adhere to their blood oaths to gain converts.

Unfortunately you can't find a lot of information on this because many articles and videos are flooded with anything pertaining to this with JWs, via by former JWs, as is with Trinitarians, Baptists, etc. In turn, Atheists and the Irreligious will use said information to attack everyone, despite some of them use the cross in form of a black mass type affiliation, Satanism, putting it up side down; even worse if the Orobous is included. To some level, you can even find some Muslims and Jews calling out the pagan roots of the cross, and even addressing people worship the cross more than God himself.

Also as for hands and wrists:

Crownjewel82 from CSE - The word used in the Bible can mean any part of the hand or arm. People who study crucifixion in general found that the nails most often went through the wrist and that the weight of the body would cause the nail to tear through the flesh of the hand as is most commonly depicted in Christian art. Thus, a fairly common view is that the nails actually went through the wrist.

Notes - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion#Nail_placement

Common view, even more so regardless if Cross or Stake in discussion in various communities.

On 7/30/2021 at 7:30 PM, Pudgy said:

The story is probably apocryphal, but there is a story of Thomas and Jesus going to a hotel in Bethlehem, and they walked in the front door, Thomas put four large metal spikes on the counter and asked the desk clerk “Can you put us up for the night?“. 

Well that might not be as as overly exaggerated compared to this -  Jesus becoming Ant-Man, growing like that of a giant, and a wooden inanimate cross comes to life like that of a beauty and a beast type manner, rushing out the tomb being Jesus, bursting into song of praises, proclaiming the Christ (The Giant Jesus and the Talking Cross - The Gospel of Peter).

This apocryphal text is like something straight out of low tier comic book for all sense is thrown out of the window.

22 hours ago, BroRando said:

Who made the following statement?  Jesus Christ or Almighty God?  Jesus said to him: “Why do you call ME good? Nobody is good except one, God.” (Mark 10:18)

Yes, Jesus made it clear that he is God's Son, and to God, he acknowledged Jesus is his beloved Son. All this is true, but the latter believes Jesus and God are one in the same, not only due to the teachings of the Trinity itself, but the errors and forgeries in the Bible that pushes a reader to not recognize the distinction between the two.

That being said, the verse you cited, Mark 10:18, is used by Trinitarians to justify their view of equating the Son to the Most High which is against what us Non-Trinitarians believe, as is our Subordinationist counterparts of old. Trinitarians see in this verse that Jesus himself is still God; being good. They resort to ignoring as well as nullify Jesus' words. If each of us tell them what Jesus is really saying here, not only they'll rush John 1:1, but they will make the claim that we are saying Jesus is not good. In their minds, Trinitarians are suggesting that the issue is about moral goodness. Trinitarians act as though that Jesus is coyly suggesting that he himself is that "good God", however, the passage is not about whether we say Jesus is good or not, but rather, it is about what Jesus himself has said.

And regarding what he said, Jesus recognizes that God holds the highest of standard of what it means to be good, being the fact, God can make the determination of what is good and bad. And Jesus being humble leaves the determination of setting the standard to his Father and God and we can see this in his Word, of which Jesus proclaims.

They fail to see what was mentioned here, that no one would say such a thing to someone else unless they wanted to correct them and point out that their words were misdirected.

That being said, this is why research and taking in context of core teachings is vital. Because to the unexpected, The Trinitarian Troop can easily sway people into the opposing Teaching of what is true.

On 8/2/2021 at 9:31 PM, Witness said:

SM, I don't normally agree with you, but this is beautiful.

Same. To me Trinitarianism is problematic, the only reason why I myself and the Christians of CSE are as they are, hence the Anti-Trinitarian vs Trinitarian fight continues for years upon years, now and onward.

On 8/3/2021 at 6:56 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Brando is still hooked on providing a 'date' for the End of this system of things. I answered him on that first page. Um, you didn't pass comment on that though.

If you read his original post, nothing of a date was ever mentioned, he simply compared Noah's Day to how Present Day mirrors it with events happening throughout the years, especially even now. Moreover, he made mention of the presence of the Christ, and how it is compared, hence his quote:

[Notice Jesus compared the days of Noah to his Presence, they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away. Therefore, we can conclude that both Prophecies are 'timed events'. Time and again Jesus kept reminding his disciples just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. How long were the days of Noah? Then Jehovah said: “My spirit will not tolerate man indefinitely, because he is only flesh. Accordingly, his days will amount to 120 years.” (Genesis 6:3)

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

I remember back in the “old days”, the only thing you were asked was “ … can you do the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs?”.

Something to do with Hall Turner, correct? 1913?

In seismology, he is credited with the discovery of deep focus earthquakes. He is also credited with coining the word parsec, an astronomical unit of distance equal to the range at which the semiannual change in parallax of a celestial object is equal to one second of arc (equal to 3.26 light-years.)

Star Wars made some homage to Turner's term. 

https://www.rasc.ca/honorary-member-herbert-hall-turner

He coined the term.

Other than that, in relation to what JB said, to be brief, regarding beards it equates to the culture and vicinity of who the person is preaching to, as for clothing, modesty vs immodesty of how males appear and how females appear. The list thing someone needs is a male Christian minister in a dress and a female Christian minister in a suit coming to you preaching the gospel at your house or in the streets.

That being said, may come as a shock for some of how some folks react to certain greetings or having a beard.

50 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Once again this can easily refer to the leaders of the Watchtower / JW Org. Obviously they didn't have the FACTS  when they wrote so many of their Watchtower magazines and so many of their books. Either they didn't have the FACTS or they deliberately told lies.  But you probably wont agree. It would be pointless listing proof of their mistakes / lies as it's all been here before. 

So what exactly did they spread misinformation about in regards to Noah's Day vs. Present Day specifically in relation to Brando's original post?

We can start with that.

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Traditions of men. Or just dictatorship by the GB ? 

You said Traditions of Men, so we can go with that. Best you start a thread about it to not deviate from here. That being said, Example 1 and Example 2 already addressed such from your older threads/posts.

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Well silly things come to mind such as the Beard problem. Some brothers were not even allowed on the platform if they had a beard.

I hope you do realize their take on acceptance of a Beard or not stems even outside of their faith as is the time period of why they adhered to such, to a degree, it correlates with culture. As to why in some areas they can have beards, and in other areas they can't, mainly with the type of people within their vicinity, i.e. in my culture personally, to some not all, beards can make one a threat, or a sign of disrespect, and that is one of several reasons. Even outside of culture you have various groups, such as, for example, the US Military and or the equalivate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_hair_in_the_military). For beards and even various hairstyles can detract from what you are trying to convey, even the gospel. Also it comes down to cleanliness too.

Addressed Here # 1 and Here # 2, you were in one of these discussions.

Other sources similar to secondary subject:

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/10/14/navy-will-review-its-ban-beards-after-sailor-feedback.html

https://www.quora.com/Why-cant-military-personnel-grow-a-beard-What-is-the-science-behind-it

Even to a degree, police officers - https://www.quora.com/Why-do-cops-have-mustaches-but-not-beards

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

The Suit and Tie thing, a must for all brothers. And ladies not being allowed to wear trousers even though they are designed and made for ladies. 

Addressed in this discussion of which you were part of as seen Here # 3.

Also [And ladies not being allowed to wear trousers even though they are designed and made for ladies.] Are you serious? Christians outside of Mainstream Christianity will strongly refute that statement. Perhaps in an alternate dimension. Just not this one.

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

And having to go through an 'examination' of 100 questions before being allowed to be baptised. And then being baptised into the Organisation, not baptised as Jesus gave instruction. 

One has to be spiritual strong in order to make a declaration to God. I can understand as to why they study and adhere to various questions before subjecting one of their members to baptism.

Jesus' instruction was clear - make disciples, and it was evident in how people were baptized back then, even in regards to Acts 8. To go further on instruction, Jesus gave command to the Christians, as we read in Matthew 28:18-19, to make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, and such was baptism in this sense was full immersion in water baptism for declaration of the True God. Also check out Acts 8; 18:24-26; 19:1-7.

Also your older remarks related to this discussion Here # 4 and another related Here # 5. 

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Having to put in report sheets to prove you have done ministry each month, then being counted as 'inactive' if you haven't put a report in. 

If I am not mistaken this is more so to track their ministry. It isn't much for providing "proof" per say, but in their view of how a minister should operate when it comes to preaching of the gospel it is a voluntary based work to which when they track their progress in the ministry, it shows how active they are, however, the only person who can see one's zeal with sheer accuracy is God himself, and in the gospel work, it has to be honest at all times.

Perhaps if the person isn't preaching the gospel due to various circumstances, it may yield that result. Life and or other events can get in the front of activities which, to them, yields the inactivity status.

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Being almost forced to join their Ministry school which mean you have to go up onto the platform to give small talks to the whole congregation (over 100 people). Something which gave me no pleasure at all. 

Your experience does not apply to everyone else who differs. Mainly if the person in question, or people in general who seeks God and wants to speak about him are both eager and vocal, even at times wanting to speak the Word in their own personal voice or what they've personally written in relation to various Biblically subjects.

You should know how joyful people are when speaking about God to others, even children who in turn do the same - I already mentioned I myself was an example, but of course, my experience differs from your own upbringing, granted, you came out of the JW faith in the EU.

True pleasure is talking about God and his Word to anyone, to those up on high, to those on the low.

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

The being told what you can and cannot do, instead of it being left to your own conscience.

Bible principles. People can give counsel, but it is up to your own conscience to take action on something or make a decision. Restorationist are known for constantly giving counsel and encouragement, likewise, with the latter. Although households can be different, one strict, one who isn't strict, or ones that simply do not care.

That being said, if a pastor tells you smoking is bad constantly, clearly you can see where he is going with that despite you making the decision smoking itself.

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Yes it's all been on here before but you did ask. 

As asked you specifically for misinformation and traditions of men, all you did was did what you just said; thus taking us down memory lane. More so, instead of bothering to comment on some, I linked the discussions, ironically enough, you didn't even bother with Examples 1 and 2, which touched on the Tradition of Men remark.

That being said, facts is far above mere opinion, which is seen on in this thread, but the linked examples.

I strongly advice you to do research. You can disagree with your former faith all you want, but you should be wise to not let your own personal opinions go over facts, let alone mixing things up in your favor.

Anywhere where there is extreme conflict of interest such as

• Reddit*
• Discord*
• 4Chan
• YouTube
• Specific Gaming communities

32 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

It may very well be that John 1:1c intends to imply that Jesus is divine in a qualitative sense. But NOT because of any possible use of THEOS as either masculine or feminine. The Greek word THEOS can be used to refer to a female god (feminine) or a male god (masculine) or effectively, even a "neutral" god.

Most of the time - this.

Some people who simply read the verses when they see THEOS quickly come to a conclusion. The title can be applied to anything or anyone, for it does not automatically make them The True God. Other similar examples would be Isaiah 9:6 and Titus 2:13, where as for this verse, Trinitarians often appeal to the Granville Sharp Rule in order to identify Jesus as God. 1 Timothy 3:16 is also another interesting one, for "God" being included into the verse proves problematic.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Wow, How to make a simple thing more complicated. 

Because information is vital. It is one of those things, annoying things when dealing with Jehovah Warriors, KJV-Onlyist and Trinitarians, etc who primarily use the verse to "prove" Jesus is God - hence the crusade of core Christianity, in this sense.

John 1:1 is literally the center piece in the Trinitarian vs Non-Trinitarian battle, likewise to those in Royal's Park Hyde Park, London where a good chuck of this verse is often debated.

Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.

 This verse is commonly used by some to prove Jesus is God, at times ignoring context and references to adhere to their own exegesis, but the facts show us, if read and understood, the entirety of John's Introduction chapter, disproves the claim that Jesus is God.

So in short, the Word of John 1:1(c) is the Word proclaimed through Jesus in his ministry and the Word he proclaimed was the proclamation of God the Father Himself, the Word was God. He who had seen Jesus had seen the Father in terms of the things Jesus did. God is Life and Jesus fully expressed that Life in the words he spoke and the works he did.

God is Truth and Jesus fully expressed that Truth by everything he said and did. God is Light and Jesus fully expressed the Light of the Father in all the words he spoke and works he did in the name of his God. God is Love and the flesh named Jesus fully expressed the Father's Love; dead flesh crucified for the sins of mankind. The Word of God was something the man named Jesus always kept. The Word became flesh, that is, God the Father was manifested in flesh, that flesh named Jesus. Jesus came so that we might know the Father and Jesus fully expressed the Father in all the things he did because he always kept His Father's Word. Jesus' words and works were not his own but the Father's. For the Word of which Jesus speaks is God's Spoken Word.

On 8/1/2021 at 7:20 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

As people would say about me, it seems that you are looking for perfection. I know that you are not, and neither am I.

But S. M. 'the facts' are different to different people. 

If I were you, I'd be smart to not make claims I cannot cash at the bank, JB.

You brought that claim several times, yet no one seeks perfection here. All men are imperfect, and the price for imperfection can result in sin for some. This same quote has been mentioned to you time and time again. You yourself at times fail to realize how imperfect all people are.

The facts are not different to different people, opinions (even unproven ones) are. 

A fact is a statement that can be proven true or false. An opinion is an expression of a person’s feelings that cannot be proven. Opinions can be based on facts or emotions and sometimes they are meant to deliberately mislead others...; and that quote in of itself was puled from BOROUGH OF MANHATTAN COMMUNITY COLLEGE, other sources state nearly the identical. Although it if author based, it still applies to various discussions and or talks as well.

On 8/1/2021 at 7:20 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

You seem to love this word. But once again it means different things to different people. Many of us here could easily quote past teachings of the Watchtower / JW Org, which were misinformation.  You yourself belong to a different 'religion' which may give some 'misinformation' according to JWs.

Because if your religion and the Watchtower/JW religion taught exactly the same then they would be one religion. 

I have mention a disdain for falsehood and conspiracy theories, so much so I am easily identified as a Truther or part of the community itself, in fact, you were even told what a Truther is and how they operate, they do not like misinformation, in turn, they do a lot of research in order to find truth, i.e. when you asked about Q Anon, it  was both truthful and factual, not based on opinion. More so, the fact I know enough about the UN and even the Superpowers themselves.

It is only different if based on an opinion piece, not facts. You are getting both terms mixed.

The problem is not about quoting the JWs, the problem is mixing in what they are saying with your own opinion piece, often times taking things out of context, i.e. you not realizing Bible concordances and quick to call judgement on a word or passage.

I believe I made myself clear on the fact I study Religions (which correlates with being a Truther) mainly due to the fact as to why and how all the denominations came into existence in the first place, other than the Bible's history. It is also the very reason as to why I speak strongly against Trinitarianism and Interfaith other than call out misinformation concerning core Christianity.

Again with adding on an exegesis to deviate from the focus.

Like I said, opinions are based on claims, even unproven, you claimed 3 times I was part of an interfaith when you know I am against it, and in return, I offered, facts.

On 8/1/2021 at 7:20 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

And you will give me some examples ?  You know what I follow do you ? 

Several times you bring up some things that are based on your own opinion, and often times lack some clarity and or information, even if you interject Jehovah's Witnesses, in the examples below, their own Bible, you had no idea of what the Concordances are. You were given ample facts on the matter, as I made it clear to the latter, even with truth, you reject facts.

• Example 1
• Example 2

Even here you did the same thing in the pervious pages.

On 8/1/2021 at 7:20 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

S. M. There is a difference with, the idea of agreeing with someone, as opposed to following them.

So what stopped you from agreeing in the provided examples? When facts are presented, you automatically reject it.

There were times I used your own quotes, which you didn't even realize it and you reject it unless it was said by the latter, you do not reject it.

On 8/1/2021 at 7:20 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Two or more people can agree on a few things, it does not mean they are following each other. 

You still miss the point. The biggest question is when it comes to facts, why not do the research? This isn't the first time.

As a side note, granted the original post began talking about Noah's Day, and how things would be in the present day that mirrors it. It was on a neutral footing, no mention of any faiths. If anything JW related is said by someone, you interject, or if you say it, they interject. Going to page one, you were the one who started such.

On 8/1/2021 at 7:20 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

It's a bit like cars driving along the same road. Maybe they are all going to the same town but for different reasons. They are not just thoughtlessly following each other. 

Not the wisest of examples considering what is mentioned.

On 8/1/2021 at 7:20 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Doesn't the JW Org do exactly that. They start adding traditions of men as burdens to Christians. 

Then you'd have to prove such instead of going on to opinions.

It is 100% fact Restorations who maintain their viewpoint after the Great Awakening do not adhere to Traditions of Men, hence why they put themselves on a restoration path to strive to be like the first church, but even during their inception, they do not add traditions of men, you brought this up a while back, as pointed out in Example 2. It is evident on the fact they broke away from pagan based festivities, such as Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc. But just like you and I, all of them are imperfect, as is every single living soul on this green earth.

Therefore, my comment [people who do not have the facts will eventually go forth with bad assumptions and decisions] the sad part here is Witness' own link to the reddit, which shows the excerpt can be used against you here -  no one has all the facts when it comes to certain things because they do not do the research to come to a reasonable conclusion, and in turn, they jump to conclusions or come up with opinions based on misinformation.

That being said, it is evident, even fact, if this thread began solely about the Bible and onward, for some it would be problematic because there were several examples before. Also I do not think he is Billy for Billy was always akin to Alan. This is due to both mannerism and the fact of the subtle font used by him.

Wouldn't the Jehovah's Witnesses have that information and or some brief info in connection on their website? If not, probably some people may have posted something equating to that of which you are seeking; mainly if you look up The ["Liaison Committee"] with the quotations.

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

What can I say? Give him another upvote. He’s improving.

Tom, is it an ‘enemy of my enemy is my friend’ kind of thing?

Well, I wouldn’t go that far.

Essentially it defeats the purpose to the claim coined - I don't follow or need approval any man. People often hide behind this statement in order to shield themselves from what they are really doing.

People need to get all the facts regarding a subject before jumping to a conclusion, which some fail time and time again ironically for years here. Even for a man of God, not doing so can lead to a dangerous path, thus making the Christian in question blind. Most information such follow is often a repeat over and over again at times, and yet, unlike what I said about Rook, they do nothing to bring some sort of resolution to the matter, even at times, they make assumptions of many things, or going as far as to accept even a false teaching, with New Ageism, even from Atheists because it justifies their clouded judgement. This is why before, I realized how frustrated Kosonen was when some claim to be chosen on here which in turn discouraged him, and he himself was very neutral; can hold a middle ground with some people here.

The only good thing out of this, the common onlooker who has no experience in the Bible or in Faiths, they themselves have the common sense to understand and have reason, despite agreeing and disagreeing with some folks, they can also see the root of misinformation, and being all knowing that misinformation can spread through groups, institutions, and organizations because of a disgruntled few - this is strongly evident even now during the pandemic, mainly for the fact early on God's name and Jesus name raised a few eye brows on vandalized property throughout the US.

Before this train derailed, Rando in the beginning didn't speak of groups, just the Bible only in the beginning of this thread. Just like in the days of Noah, in relation to some people around the globe, you can proclaim the message to them and there will be a subnet of folks interested and some who are not, likewise with today, same outcome, but during this time misinformation can prove to be problematic, but it should not deter someone from spreading the gospel, one of the very reasons why Matthew 24:37-39 is applies today, even with the notion of the United Nations and Babylon the Great.

That being said, people who do not have the facts will eventually go forth with bad assumptions and decisions, thus opening a door to bad assumptions (Proverbs 19:2). The funny thing about this is much misinformation was even posted on this forums at times by those who didn't have all the facts, so I guess I will start to quote more often.

4 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

S M are just wasting space on this blog. Just writing rubbish just to be seen to be participating.  Such a shame they have nothing spiritual to offer. 

I told you before, you even mentioning me, it will only yield a response.

Rubbish as in how?  If you are going to make a claim, provide evidence - to that I will wait. I find that as a bold claim because everything I post is always Bible related or to the subject matter, even secondary subjects, and at times I quote and or paraphrase people if need be. In fact, half the information I pulled were some of the things you said actually in the past. That is the irony here, you were the one asking these things, and it didn't take long for you to repeat yourself.

The subject matter was solely about Noah's day, and how today equates to that, however, you simply brought up the similar narratives.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

And I make it clear that I am not 'following' anyone else's interpretations on this forum.  So I stand alone with my head held high to give thanks to Almighty God through Jesus Christ, and I don't need the approval of any human. 

But you do follow certain things to cloud your judgment, hence your reaction in regards to the same people, even when correct, you react, even when a minor joke, you react, the very reason you were always, and will be linked with JB because the reaction and responses are always identical, in this case when it comes to Greek Grammar of not realizing religious office within a church, even of the first century.

But you have not changed, expect the fact by name only, which I discovered recently until now after quoting you; only one person refers to me as "S M" with a space.

And this is the problem, it is already known that you stand alone by me and of God and Christ, but you still fall victim to many things, even misinformation. You can disagree with some notations, which no one takes issue with, but it is added information that equates to nothing at times, which results in you dealing with, what I can assume are rivals and even now, after return I still see that has not changed, this show proves me case.

Yes, no man needs approve from any man, but even a man knows they can be checked and or counseled at times. Since Paul is mentioned time and time here, Paul himself publicly rebuked Peter regarding public sin, which caused Paul to speak to him, both men of God and of Christ, and one is giving the other one counsel regarding his mishap - keep that in mind.

That being said, in regards to the Steward comment, it was 100% correct. No violation to the Greek text, therefore, it does not go around what is written (Deut. 4:2) - that command, by no means, is rubbish.

@PudgyDogecoin is considered a meme, however, misinformation can lead to people avoiding it. Doge and it's community has done some pretty nice things. It was pushed by Elon Musk and whales have been holding it a while. The Media has been pressuring people with FUD to sell out, and manage to cause people to sell, but to those who believe in the coin, hodl. Doge also has some similar coins such as Shiba Coin, Baby Doge, etc. However believers hold on to the original. Despite the media calling it a joke, there is a high expectation, even a probability that Doge will go up in a few years.

That being said, the prime focus in the market of crypto seems to be Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Cardano, to some extent, Ethereum Classic, the original over Ethereum.

The value of the dollar currency is depreciating over time. So Crypto and Gold/Silver are being bought out. 

14 hours ago, Witness said:

APPARENTLY heard a rumor?

Have you ever done that — passed on a report without checking the facts? I think all of us have to admit that we’ve been guilty of that at one time or another. But now, how did the Thessalonians react? They were alarmed. They were “quickly shaken from [their] reason.” We mustn’t let that happen to us. When you hear something, check it out; don’t just circulate it; don’t just believe it; check it out."

All checked out, as you have done, and it isn't a rumor.  We can continue to circulate it.

But not even here most people accept fact. Many examples presented, even solutions, of which was ignored for even the most sensitive topics, as is with claims at times made without merit, especially towards others. On the other side of the spectrum, those who ultimately fall victim to a left vs right paradigm.

So people need to check out everything, turn all stones, and not to just accept something just like that.

This even stems outside of rumors, but misinformation about the Scriptures itself.

11 hours ago, Pudgy said:

I would like to see the references to where he came to the screwball conclusion apparently someone heard a rumor. Where did that come from?

I don’t really know but I highly suspect if that statement and read was completely made up out of it out of absolutely nothing except agenda driven imagination. If anybody knows different, please correct me.

This was due to Lawlessness among the Christian Church.

TL;DR version - Mishearing something or speaking about something differently can open a door to misinterpretation and misinformation, as well lead into one succumbing to rebellion, and or apostasy, i.e. you can say, for example, a non-religious one,

• Brando checks Rook's car and tells him he isn't going to take a look at the car and a professional needs to check it out.
• Pudgy, seeing this, assumes Brando worked on Rook's car, the next day Rook gets into an accident and Pudgy thinks Brando was out to get Rook.
• Pudgy - I think Brando did something bad to Rook's car, and Rook is almost got into an accident.
• Srecko, hearing this, calls the police on Brando, making an assumption without having all the facts.
• Brando opens the door to see police, being confused on as to why they are here - *Surprise Pikachu Face*

Jesus put in place those to take charge in the church by means of God's Structure, overseers, servants, etc. Capable figures in the church who can maintain peace, some of which who had no education, for all rich and poor were welcomed into the church. This brings us to Paul.

Apostle Paul associated the coming God's Day with the presence of the Christ as we know in his letters. But the situation with Thessalonians was among unique situations Paul dealt with. Regarding of what can be read in 2 Thess.  chap. 2 about disobedient ones, and eventually to chap. 3 regarding a warning to such persons.

Paul spoke of, as is foretold, man of lawlessness who would eventually develop the mentality of an apostate, thus falling into apostasy. Apostle Paul was able to discern lawless folks due to the fact they spoke of God's Day - This situation is noted as The Great Revolt (Great Rebellion), something of which can easily split the Congregation.

Which brings us to the formation of the rebellion. For Apostle Paul due to the fact he had the spirit on him, as did others, prevented apostasy from then becoming a problematic thing inside the church for a time. So essentially, Paul having the spirit was like that of a shield, using it as a defense for the congregation from incoming attacks. However, the shield cannot be maintained. When Paul, as with the other Apostles having died out, apostasy was able to thrive, to grow.
That being said, into our century, this still happens.

Someone would speak of a different ideology in the church thus coming into apostasy, even using misinformation, or misheard what was spoken, thus coming to their own conclusion, i.e. should someone speak of God's day in such a matter "The Time is Now" could be utter, and someone can mistake that for it happening at that very movement and thus spread the word, hence misinformation is spread.

There is no question God's Day is near, but to mistake people's words can often be problematic, at times, people also use such misinformation against the latter to demonize them, a sad tactic used by most today, even outside of religion.

Groups are very aware of what is taking place in most cases, however, at times, people in this regard can receive, like that of Paul, letters or electronic information, this is the case with rumors and misinformation, this excludes genuine true letters with concerns, and or suggestions.

That being said, Apostasy can be very dangerous. At times, those who call out others to some degree, are usually the ones consume by apostasy - for misinformation has lead to death and injury, even if said information is a glitch.

A wise person would:

Read the information carefully.

Gather all the facts, figure out the why, when, and reason.

Come to a conclusion

Thus should the topic is coined, speak of such reasonably.

FACTS is always KEY.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

You are kind to say this!  I think most here know exactly the reasons but CHOOSE to remain obtuse because they have reached a stage in life where they oppose everything to do with Jehovah and his people.  They are irrational and nasty.... hence the term given to them: Hate-OCD.  They do not come here to learn but to divide and conquer! .... Unfortunately not for Jehovah. They have the same spirit the Pharisees had.

They won't change. I even challenged one in particular in this regard - and the fact I return here, months later, the person did nothing - ironically. At least at the time, Rook, himself actually did something about a sensitive topic mentioned time and time again here, and I commemorate him for that, and the community of which I was invited to and helping in the time of absence included his input with what was gathered originally.

The problem is, those who are so boiled in their emotions cannot truly be reasoned with. At times they will mix and or use events thus becoming one sided at times and can never hear both sides, or even try to come to a common ground and or conclusion; hence similar topics over the years. They come to assumptions, even from stupid things, only to shy away like church mice when they cannot prove something, and if proven incorrect, they wipe their evidence by deleting their threads and or posts. They rejoice over something, and do not realize a problem that they didn't see coming, and should you ask them about it, they say nothing. It is one of those issues that even the one who calls himself chosen took issue with here.

That being said, because of all this, intertwined with the pandemic, as I, Rook, and the one who claims to be chosen were correct - Their numbers who be reduced because they make up that branch of folks spoken of in Mainstream Christendom, as is with former members; all reduced.

Edit - as you can see, the latter even laughs at what he speaks out against - a sensitive topic.

@TrueTomHarley Perhaps more hate than Darth Vader himself. When one succumbs to hate, they are beyond reason.

18 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

The Apostle PAUL, was completely separate from those 'superfine apostles' and it was PAUL that was chosen to write all those letters to the congregations. 

Apostle Paul did more than just write letters, and had done many things for Christians. Again, it is unfortunate you do not grab the context of Acts 15, so I understand why you laugh about it because it is unfounded by you - a shame. The irony here was I used your own words, JB. So to that I laugh with you.

34 minutes ago, Arauna said:

True - they were not called GB but they performed this important function. A group of anointed Christians were sending out letters and making centralized decisions from Jerusalem.  For example, James (the brother of Jesus) presided over the meetings about circumcision and Paul specially went ack to Jerusalem to Witness about the gentiles receiving Jehovah's spirit. They made a centralized decision and sent out letters to all congregations to inform them that circumcision of gentiles was not needed.

Read all about this in Acts 15.

Unfortunately people do not understand the "why" as to which terms derive from, elders, pastors, deacons, servants, etc.. Not only the passage from Acts 15, but the history itself.

It is also the body of apostles in the first century of which many debates take place concerning Christianity today, mainly in the Trinitarian vs Anti-Trinitarian arena, even about Paul, as is with those who try to dismantle God's Structure with some teachings not met for the church when the Bible tells you exactly of how the Church is structured and by what in terms of God's Order.

That being said, the New Age teachings has been quite the thorn to those who