Space Merchant

On 6/30/2020 at 11:25 PM, JW Insider said:

Where can one find the Truther Community?

The community in of itself has many, many branches depending on what you are looking for. Some who automatically assume every single one of them to be groups of conspiracy theorist, however, the other branches of the community do not dwell upon that. Essentially, they are all over the place, majority of them are on forums or other forms of social media. One of the reasons I have been away for so long because I was helping a small group with a common goal, providing a helping hand in a young girl.

But again, it depends on what you dwell on, for me it is a few specific things.

Passing this information along from the Truther Community and those who in the area, I myself passed this on to even family and friends who live in this area. Should you know anyone who is close to this area, pass this information over to them:

Kylie Amy-Skyler

The Rio Rancho Police Department is asking for the public’s assistance in locating Kylie Amy-Skyler Graffis. Graffis is a 17-year-old Hispanic female, 4’10” tall, weighing 110 pounds, with brown hair, and brown eyes. 

Graffis was last seen on June 29, 2020, around 4:00 p.m., at 701 Soothing Meadows in Rio Rancho, New Mexico. Graffis was last seen wearing a black Adidas brand jogger pants with white tennis shoes, and a gray oversize shirt with ‘Buffalo, Utah’ written on it.  Graffis also wears a Banana Republic brand prescription glasses with black frames. 

Police say Graffis is on foot and it is believed that she might possibly be headed to Farmington or Utah. Police say Graffis is missing and believed to be in danger if not located. Police say anyone with any information regarding this New Mexico Brittany Alert is asked to call RRPD at 505-891-7226 or dial 911.

This is recent as of 8-9 hours ago.

@Arauna This is the problem, Srecko speaks of equipping wisdom, however, he has not done anything since 2018 concerning child abuse.

For anyone who lacks what child abuse is and how to stop it, educating is key. Even ARC stresses this, you have people like Srecko and 4Jah2me, who does not put the application. 4Jah2me whining about the bystander syndrome when he himself expresses it greatly when all this time he could have used social media as a platform to teach people, granted, he does favor social media.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But you said exactly that way :)). And conclusion or answer why they (WTJWorg) fighting in wrong way is visible by your appendix: they are "just not equipped to handle such situations".  

Exactly the same way? As I recall, you were refuted strongly in regards to child abuse.

You should not even address the question, I even posed to you a while back:

What is the most important sign that one has to look out for regarding a potential abuser [school setting - church setting - business setting - public space]? 

For someone who speaks of child abuse but does not know this, granted you take no action whatsoever, you fit the same bystander mentality as that of @4Jah2me. The Americans have an expression, all bark, but no bite, as they say. The ones that do bite are the ones to reduce the problem compared to those who merely bark.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Wait ...and you will grow old :))

And here we see the man who laughed at helping children who cannot prove anything. Hypocrisy your claim is if it holds no merit.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You making better reasoning and have better wisdom than WTJWorg GB and Helpers. Thanks!

If you really think that, granted you laughed at helping children in the past, what have you been doing since it was addressed on how to help children? What have you been doing since 2018 to now regarding child abuse and a list of other things that has and or can commit harm to a child?

It is not about having better wisdom, it is about passing wisdom, if the Bible verses concerning safeguarding children is not clear enough, but you laughed and ignored it, not one time either.

In your own thread, I even told you, and I quote: For a guy who wants to have a say in child abuse, you tend to ignore anything pertaining to child abuse prevention in terms of educating the youth, as you have done before and as you have done now, Srecko.

It is now 2020, and still you hold to this mentality whereas many of us have been doing much work since then concerning child abuse.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Repetitio est mater studiorum :)))

And ignorance and being misinformed drags one into ruin, and can bring others down with him. Therefore, the claim fits the bill concerning you, bird man.

The truth in that is the fact you did not know the sex abuse survivors in question, before I mentioned them by name. Another proof, as is with everything pertaining to Biblical Facts.

55 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

@Space Merchant goes on about helping to save children from child sexual abuse. The JW organisation should announce to a congregation when there is a Paedophile in that congregation. The Elders should say the name of the paedophile so that everyone knows it. The paedophile should be reported to the Police or Superior Authorities, not kept hidden in the congregation. THAT would help keep children safe.  The silly idea that Elders will know when a person is repentant is stupid. And some Elders are even given their position in the congregation back. 

Announcing does not fix the problem (as many, many examples in history points out, some examples as stated turn out badly and other times bloody), actions taken to prevent anymore forms of abuse to take place does, knowing the signs of someone who is an abuser, and or abused, granted a pedophile is deemed a threat if he acts upon his or her ill desire. An announcement, if need be, should it be made, should only take place after the pedophile who ends up abusing someone is dealt with.

Yes, the pedophile who acts upon abusing someone, the police should be notified, however, there are many variables to that granted bystander syndrome can effect people, be it they are moved to go to the police, told to go to the police and or simply encouraged to go to the police because people tend not to get highly involved, some for reasons, hence not being well equipped to handle the situation. This is liken to internal investigate action done by any institution whereas you have the well versed vs. those who are not, depending on where in the community such abuse has been taking place. It is far more complex if the abuse takes place in the household of the victim because those within the institution cannot detect it, however, the only form of detection they have is the child in question.

It is not a silly idea. Christians are to apply forgiveness of sin as the Christ have, but as stated before, abusers can exploit people in order to get to children. As pointed out in the past, abusers who are within the Jehovah's Witnesses, are, like many pedophiles who abuse children, tend to win over and exploit those within a community. They can express forgiveness to belittle people in order to access children and or that one specific victim, once the exploitation takes place. This is why in regards to helping children, you also have to know how the mind of a pedophile, which is borderline a cross between Sociopath and psychopath whereas if the pedophile is strongly wanting to enact ill action against a child and or anyone, even should they get violent, they have no remorse for their sins, thus going into the psychopathic spectrum, granted, pedophilia is indeed a disorder.

That being said, if the abuser wins over them, and or anyone else, they can easily be accepted back into a community, hence the borderline Sociopath and psychopath notion they express to commit more sin.

55 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

SM calls me a bystander, Quite funny as that is a JW expression. Any JW that does not go out preaching is called a JW Bystander here in England.  And it seems that SM expects me to go out and talk to complete strangers, even children, about CSA and Paedophiles. Um, i think I would get arrested or at least accused of something nasty. This is England and people are more unsociable or reserved, so you do not just go up and speak to young children that do not know you. 

 

• 4Jah2me - As for teaching children anything, my wife and I have put ourselves on 'lockdown' so no visitors and no visiting others. Being an 'old man' I don't go out much anyway so the only 'preaching' i do is online through Facebook pages, and it is surprising the good response I get. 
• Space Merchant - That being said, social media, helping children here is a plus because abusers are more active on the internet vs. the institutions, granted the subtly, i.e. YouTube, Facebook, etc. If you can preach to people, you can teach people, including children online. Granted you are on Facebook, how about taking that approach? Help the cause by spreading solutions.

Granted if you can do preaching, you can do the same in terms of the situation, raising awareness, reach one teach one, if JW children does concern you this much.

You do express the bystander syndrome when it comes to the situation in question - You know about Child Abuse, but you do no form of action to combat child abuse. At least is better than being ignorant and or oblivious, however, the notion you express does not surpass those who know about child abuse and are able to take action, regardless, be it in person and or on social media, etc.

The bystander syndrome effects everyone in mankind regardless of the situation (suicide, violence, racism, etc.)

No, I simply told you to use your platform. You said you use facebook, you can fight child abuse in that way, I even told you this, do not get it twisted. That response, you even disliked it.

That being said, you are, indeed a bystander concerning child abuse.

@TrueTomHarley True. Also the accompany of another guardian. As long as there is heighten supervision of the child if the parent, one or none, is not present. This is so there is more cover, an indirect practices by a multitude of institutions, even the schools whereas there is usually more than one teacher in the classroom when there is a few students.

5 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

"The Jehovah's Witnesses have not sponsored any programs or activities that separate children from their parents at any time," it said in a statement to AAP.

So can you name one Hospital, Youth Club, Pre-School and or any educational institution by Jehovah's Witnesses that is for children and only children? After all, you said you have to be a JW to know, this should be elementary to you.

This is indeed a factor because the articles brought this up regarding the Redress Scheme.

The article reads:

The Jehovah's Witnesses said the religion does not have the institutional settings that the voluntary redress scheme is designed to cover and it will not join. (Note, this was also cited in the article linked by Witness)

"The Jehovah's Witnesses have not sponsored any programs or activities that separate children from their parents at any time," it said in a statement to AAP.

The statement said the Jehovah's Witnesses did not operate boarding or Sunday schools, did not have youth groups, choirs or sponsor any programs for children, nor run youth centres.

"Jehovah's Witnesses simply do not have the institutional settings that result in children being taken into their care, custody, supervision, control or authority."

Less than 10 redress scheme applicants have referred to the Jehovah's Witnesses, it said.

"Jehovah's Witnesses have responded and will continue to respond directly to individual claims for redress in a caring, fair, and principled manner, taking into consideration the unique circumstances of each claim.

5 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Correct! However, ex-witnesses don't want to read sound logic. They prefer to hear from insiders that have a problem with how the organization is being run. They don't believe in God's plan, and how God cleans an organization that has been corrupted by outside influence. I believe Dr. Furuli's new book speak volumes on that kind of influence.

From what I have seen throughout the years, the former Jehovah's Witnesses the ones who endlessly go after the faith, even making money on the speaking badly about the faith, NONE OF THEM, have done anything to combat child abuse, therefore, they apply the same mindset as both Srecko and 4Jah2me, and the other guy on this thread. To Witness' credit, she actually posted a solution in the past, but never has her or anyone else acted upon pushing out this information. The Jehovah's Witnesses, they do fit the category, granted this is common among mankind, as addressed before, knowing but unaware of how to commit to action, that is why some of them learned what to do and what needs to be done, as is the same with anyone fighting child abuse as a whole. Equivocation brought up a good point, granted his experience, and I had mentioned a couple of others in the past, for within every single community, there are those among them that knows what the problem is and has taken action and or passing information along to help fight against a problem.

Yes, cleaning does is not something 100%, you can keep doing what needs to be done to minimize and prevent forms of abuse. The sad reality is, you can save 4-5 children and or play a role in preventing them and or anyone they know from being abused and or targeted by an abuser, however, elsewhere, that same number of children are not so lucky. Tragic as it may sound, but the more we help out, this goes for all communities, even for you Jehovah's Witnesses, the higher chance we can reduce child abuse.

That being said, this bystander like mentality is something of the common man, of which we can see it play out with all things, even when it comes to various sins, and events happening as we speak and or soon to happen, hence, The End Times.

5 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Ex-witnesses don't understand the outside politics such as in, how Australia overturned Cardinal George Pell, sexual child abuse conviction that he "personally" was charged with, not because of priest actions but his own action. Where does that leave their irrational ideology? Will it stop them, they can't. They have invested years of being "wrong" they can't do anything but continue to harp on nonsense, from either outsiders or insiders.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/06/828511647/australias-high-court-overturns-cardinal-pell-s-child-sexual-abuse-conviction?t=1593457004730

Exactly, but apparently people are too blinded by their own misfortune and disdainment. Granted we are talking about child abuse, the majority of them are unaware, as is with all who are not equipped to deal with child abuse, do not know the mind of an abuser. To some degree they are mental to the point of knowing how to exploit others in order to gain something and or get access to something.

I pointed out in the past, abusers tend to target children in various ways through exploitation and several other things that shows how dark and demented such people are.

That being said, it is quite sad that a key element in fighting child abuse is often ignored, even if ARC promotes the same thing, such people will not apply it, however, there are the few that would come to their sense and take action, go about the situation of child abuse the correct way.

As a sidenote, back in 2017, there was actually a former JW who brought this up. He was not attacking JWs, just the problem itself and stated nearly the same thing I would say, or that of child abuse prevention services, however, the other former JWs who express apostasy, sent him death threats and attacked him, even fat shaming him, as you can see, they even somehow got his videos terminated off of YouTube. This person was the same one who stopped the disgruntled ones in the park by getting officials involved, and around that same time apostate former JWs continued to blame the JWs for the event at the park, when it was actually this one former JW that did this. As you can see even among them there is division.

As for Srecko's comments, some of them have been addressed before, I don't see how and why he continues to bring them up, thinking that people would forget old discussion.

Granted the Redress is being talked about, I found these two articles, which is somewhat relative to the current situation:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-15/redress-scheme-doesnt-help-all-abuse-victims-campaigner-says/9874576

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-01/survivors-warn-claimants-could-be-worse-off-under-redress-scheme/9822658

@4Jah2me But not too long ago you spoke of cleaning out the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses regarding child abuse, which is as impossible as someone trying to end racism around the world. All someone has to do is read through all your posts, as is with slander assertions you even added into the mix, as is, with lackless solutions.

That being said, as pointed out, this is indeed the reality, even after The Redress, which needs some work in of itself because there were some call outs of physically abused children, child abuse can only be dealt with by God and his Christ. No imperfect person can clean out entirely sexual brazen conduct in all institutions, even the faith community of Jehovah's Witnesses, child abuse will still be a regular sin that plagues all communities. The only thing you can do is to fight child abuse by teaching the people, children and adults, so they can be the very ones to stand up to child abuse, and we do so by using God's Word, the very reason I told you use that wisdom to teach people. From the day this thread was started, I continue to pass such wisdom, and you could have done the same, but clearly you fit the bystander syndrome narrative choosing to do nothing, but at least you know it, but your ability to take some form of action is not there. Age is of no factor because I can tell you right now, even the elderly in the US, as is in the UK, take the same stand as I do, there is not much of an excuse.

I do not see why the notion of teaching such things irks you, let alone thinking that such a thing is world based when it is by means of the Bible that enables us to pass wisdom when it comes to discernment and being cautious of danger.

The second problem with the Redress is now people are that the alternative is the courts, granted the Redress itself still needs adjustments. They may be making some changes after this is all over.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Is this topic under Catholic Open Club or under JW Open Club ? :))

Granted you have reading comprehension, it was from the article, which you liked but did not read, not to mention you not knowing the former Jehovah's Witnesses in question whom you could not address by name.

Now if you read the article you'd know that, as I literally posted the article here:

Also, you are said before you did not care about News Corp, why the sudden change?

That being said, thank you for proving my point again, I applaud the willful foolishness and your willfulness to ignore and not read into things, let alone the article, granted YOU mentioned News Corp as well...

As for your other assertions:

Did WT magazines gave enough proper "train" to JW elders and JW members in 1980's ? If yes why JWORG have such massive problem inside Organization 30-40  years later? Are they actually fighting it the wrong way as all other ?! Articles about CSA in WT publications came from what source? From inside WTJWorg  wisdom "guided by HS", or by "worldly" source or from mixed sources?

As stated before, there are some who actually put forth the effort to apply the the information, as is with those who do not, granted, the bystander syndrome effect and the mentality of the individual and or persons not believing such an event would happened to them, thus should child abuse take place, they are caught off guard.

I would not say fighting it wrong per say, just not equipped to handle such situations, mainly during a time where abuse be it sexual and physical and or verbal was higher and not something that people in common around that time were well prepared for. People only began to learn to deal with child abuse as the years went on by, with all avenues open to us now, it opens door to training and learning all things about child abuse and the mentality of an abuser, how they operate, so we can spot the signs early before an abuse takes place, and should an abuse take place, how to deal with the aftermath. I told you this before, but you laughed at helping children, and I am 100% sure since that day, you, like 4Jah2me, fit the category of those who are aware of child abuse within institutions, but have not taking any sort of action whatsoever to become a safeguard to children. Dare I ask you want you've done so far since 2018 when you were addressed the solutions, I know you have done nothing.

Train yourself? WTJWorg trained themselves in this subject? But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. - Heb 5:14 

Granted there are legitimate Jehovah's Witnesses out there, who knows about child abuse and actually do what they can to prevent it - yes. As pointed out, there are some who are aware, no different from the general public. I am an example, I know about child abuse, and I do take action, and by means of my action, as with others with the same mindset, we enable a minimized risk to further abuse towards children, and these actions play a huge role within the community itself, and can expand to help other communities. Therefore, it comes down to application in the subject matter - child abuse.

Even with this advanced self training collective attitude G. Jackson publicly asked  ARC The Hon Justice Peter McClellan, "tell us please how you want us to deal with CSA and we will." He, GB member asked "worldly person" for advice and direction and instruction to be incorporated in Australian legislative. But on other hand WTJWorg instructed all "self trained elders"  to call Legal Department in Branch Office first and skip Secular Government legislative. :))

That is why if you continued on into the conclusion of ARC, it was stated for Jehovah's Witnesses to better clarify things, the very reason that ARC even provided the same material Evo did on this thread, perhaps there is more. ARC also encourages teaching children as is with means of helping them. I recall I stated this regarding ARC, you laughed at it well, but of course, laughing, to you, seems to help children more than taking action, Srecko, therefore, you give no benefit to child abuse at all, surprisingly you are not an enabler.

That being said, church action was discuss, you made a fool of yourself in that subject mater a while back, not wise to repeat the same thing, granted with what we know in regards to the situation.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Even JW members are not aware how own "faith" operate in many details. So your statement above is not fully "true" and adequate :))

Can you proof that it is not true when the history of Restorationism proves otherwise? I challenge you on this one and I wait.

Also the Redress covers those who were sexual abused as children, it does not cover physical abuse for there was some talk about this back in 2018.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In same day you said how "to be inspired" is not possible today, but how this ex-JW person "has the spirit on her,...".

An inspired prophet is one who is like Apostle John, after his death, no one had such inspiration of that level, expect for those before him. Everyone after Apostle John are non-inspired prophets. Anyone who claims to be inspired like that of Prophets of old, is someone who is not just crazy, but having a spirit of wickedness on them, especially from what we know from this author and the fact her affiliation is very very strong with Kairos, which is a huge red flag.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

And you go with claim how, to be inspired from spirit who is not good is possible today, 

What claim are you talking about? Are you attempting to defend a Kairos follower? You do realize demons exist, right? Demons can have influences on people and have people do things, believe it or not, manifestations of things deem ominous.

That being said, it is not possible for anyone who be inspired like that of Apostle John, anyone who says otherwise has wickedness upon them, especially if they attest to a claim of speaking with and having something or someone tell them something, hence, Galatians 1:1-11 comes to mind, Galatians 1:8 comes to mind.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

but to be inspired from spirit who is good, was ended in apostle John days.

Because Apostle John was an inspired prophet, like those before him. No one of this level after him.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It seems, according to this, how "self training" (similar terminology you used in one CSA topic) is only solution in spiritual battle against "not good spirit". :))

You do not need training to understand evil spirits and demons being upon this world and harbor influence on people. And no such terminology was ever used regarding CSA.

Oh, so you are now in favor of demons? That is quite the spectacle, Srecko. If you want to defend Ms. Royal, I accept your challenge because a lot of what she says everyone is calling her out on it, even former JWs.

That being said, her prayer should be an OBVIOUS FACTOR, I do not see how you overlook that, after all, I am sure you know what the Sermon on the Mount is whereas our Lord taught us to pray, did you seemingly go aloof here? As I recall, I believe this was pointed out to you in a lesson regarding Biblical Facts (surprise).

@TrueTomHarley As I pointed out in the other thread, a factor to the Redress is the fact the JWs do not have educational institutions and or youth clubs and a list of other things, granted, most who signed up for the Redress and or have not signed yet, have one and or more of these things. There's bound to be alternatives anyway for victims and those that have done the sin will meet consequence.

That being said, the articles from Australia are sporadic, and not easy to come by due to the whole paywall issue, something for a techy like me find annoying.

As for the whole 2 witness ruling, I believe it was clarified a while back, for even a piece of evidence can count as a witness within the theology of JWs.

EDIT:

I found it, however, back then it was brief, I had researched what the ruling was after I had posted it, and made note of what it actually is and what it is often used for vs. the misconception. I have also found out even the Justice System use a similar two witness ruling in come cases, something of which I will post soon if there is a thread about it:

That being said, the information from what I pointed out from the MSM claim vs what is true is below:

Anyways, another factor to this whole situation is the fact Jehovah's Witnesses do not own and or build hospitals, have clubs for children, let alone preschools, any form of educational and or religious based institution for children and a list of other things, they do not have sporting events youth clubs, etc.

I cited an article before, but did not add this part in yet, so paraphrasing from what I had read thus far.

19 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Quote @Space Merchant  As for the database, we do not know, some are saying they have one, some are saying they do not, others have said they have destroyed it. We should not be playing multiple choice with something serious

If the American CCJW Bethel has destroyed the CSA / Paedophile 20 year Database it would prove they are not serving Almighty God. It would prove that they are deliberately hiding Paedophiles in the CCJW / Watchtower Soc'.  It would prove they have things to hide and that they should not be trusted at all. 

However, i do not believe they have destroyed it. And I believe that Jesus Christ will have that database used in American courts, as part of the cleaning of the CCJW.  Christ will use the Superior Authorities of the 'world' to clean out the things of the 'world' from the CCJW. 

Almighty God used armies of this 'world' to punish the Israelites. And did He use or just allow the Romans to destroy Jerusalem ? Either way it got the job done.  Do you think God and Christ have stopped working toward humans ? Ye people of little faith. 

As for the claim of it being destroyed, it is an odd speculative claim because over the years, there has been information concerning abusers among the Jehovah’s Witnesses bring brought up later on. Granted the faith in question is known for practicing disciplinary church action when it comes to Internal Investigations at the hands of those of religious office. So, people claiming it being destroyed is a bit farfetched.

And so you are in the right to believe as such, as evidence throughout the history of child abuse among the faith community is an obvious one.

As far as I know, Jesus is of God’s Kingdom, the American Courts are not clean either, I say this for good reason. Regardless, the Courts in the United States run on a broken Justice System, and when it comes to child abuse, they cannot eliminate child abuse in ANY institution, this includes, Jehovah’s Witnesses. Which puts me in the correct because I stated you can stop some cases of child abuse, as well as prevent it, you cannot stop it 100%, granted this world is an imperfect one, with one ruler that is God’s Adversary.

That being said, you are leading upon an impossible task, an unrealistic one at that, this is why the only other option to minimize child abuse more, to which you laughed at and disagreed with, is teaching them. For it is no wonder child abuse and neglect prevention personnel are often not happy at times, or those who support them, due to the fact, no one is listening as much and or taking action, so if we are to fit you into this example, you fit the notion as someone who is of this category of the people I often put in an example, hence these are one of the common ways man operate, as I told Evo, this is indeed true, concerning the majority, the JWs, the everyday folk, you even.

And your point with The Nation of Israel? The Romans? It got the job done… Of course, you would say that. There was a reason as to WHY that prophetical event took place. As I recall, context for Scripture does not commit your favor, but this event.

You speak of little faith, but you willful ignore even the Bible instruction to teach children, even when it is presented to you, not to mention, the confusion you expressed in the other threads when it came to wording as well as deem everyone, be it you know them or not as guilty. Moreover, in my response to you, I alluded to 4 verses without you know and as we can all see – the reaction. You yourself have a long way to go.

That being said, as I told you again and again, child abuse is indeed a problem, and the reality is, you cannot stop it 100%, you thinking mankind can clear out sins as if they had power equal to that of the Most High is quite absurd, granted each and everyone one of us, faith or not, know as to HOW sin entered into the world, and the various sins that plagues men, women, and children throughout nations, throughout countries, states, from this home to the next, and all these ill actions, among them, brazen immoral conduct is one of them, and child abuse is among this category. Those among mankind who are morally upright, will do all that they can to minimize some problems, but they know also, I myself included, we cannot destroy a problem – that, my friend, is the realism of the situation, and I can say the same thing about violence, racism, greed, corruption, etc.

Be realistic to the situation at hand.

@Equivocation As you can see, as pointed out in the past, everyone has these types of behavior, and a minor form of bystander syndrome, in this regard, child abuse. 4Jah2me speaks of child abuse, but he fits the category of those who really do not take much action, but speaks about it, that is among what I cited, even you JWs express this among the fold. The irony is he thinks I am blinding you because of the behavior of such he is expressing, which is something common with ALL men and women regardless of the situation, one does not need that much discernment to even see this, especially when he has a platform to take action, but disagrees with helping, this is why I posed the question and challenge a while ago.

That being said, it is very obvious as to what being part of the world is (his interpretation vs. The Bible and it's Principles), I don't think you or anyone else have to explain this to someone who clearly can read the Bible and figure this out for themselves - granted if finds all of you guilty anyways.

Other than that, as stated many times, all children, even JW children matter, and any man or woman of sin will get found out - Numbers 32:23.

Also he speaks for all JWs in the UK, but he does not know that there are some JWs in the UK that do not even fit his description, so he is pondering on his own experience. 4Jah2me will be quite amazed if he ran into one that I know, one that I had challenged, Kathgar.

On 6/27/2020 at 12:24 PM, JW Insider said:

I am not sure which 3 points you have in mind (that were made by News Corp). Can you be specific?

It's actually 2, didn't realize I typed 3. This claims is in regards to the Catholic Church granted them and the Catholic Church's number of adherents are vastly different.

On 6/26/2020 at 5:59 AM, JJJ-AUSTRALIA said:

Totally agreed with you 4jah4me, the society has a huge database, and no matter how much pretty words they write in their magazines or how much people (JWs) like to make excuses for, the fact is that they are still covering it and we had a taste of it here in Australia. The funny thing is that the society has an organised committee for HLC around the world and thats a proof that Jehovah God is with them (according to JWs interpretation) to uphold their man made rules of the blood doctrine but for child sex abuse they cant be bothered to have one small committee to safe guard children 😆😆😆.

The thing is, there is speculation of it even existing, whereas other say otherwise, therefore, this database notion is muddled.

As for the publication cited by @Equivocation some JWs actually do apply it, however, as pointed out, some do not know what they are doing whereas some JWs are plain oblivious to child abuse. I would not say excuses, more like caught off guard, mainly when they do not know anything pertaining to child abuse. If we can go back to ARC, they have provided solutions to not just the institutions, but the general public, likewise to the JWs, the people of Australia fit that same mentality, as is with everyone else, therefore, they harbor that bystander syndrome like mentality, which is no different from oblivious and or ill-equipped JWs vs. everyone else who is equipped to fight child abuse.

Well Australia, like other EU countries is far worse when it comes to child abuse, a bit out of control be it in an institution or not. You lot are up there compared to other non-EU countries. So it is no surprise that pedophiles can access areas where there is children, for the majority are not that well equipped to handle child abuse as a whole.

The whole Blood Doctrine concept is to abstain from blood, and it is carried over from the Mosaic Law into the New Law, so it is understandable as to why they have this view. Likewise, JWs are not the only people who hold this view, other Christians as well, and to some extent, Jews and those who are following Islam. Moreover, you even have cultures that apply abstaining from blood for a great number of reasons, some, who are not religious, hold this view for reasons of superstition. Perhaps learn more about the law itself, there is a reason behind that.

Again, they would need to be trained on the matter. A solution that even CSA services even point out, and some information provided by ARC. Even you yourself can train yourself on child abuse and help out those who are actually fighting it the wrong way and not be as a person who is sitting on the sidelines just calling CSA without taking action - therefore, I agree with ARC, services, etc that provide the same example, even the Bible when it comes to passing wisdom and teaching children and others.

That being said, as for News Corp, 3 points made by them have been proven false.... As stated, the focus now is only The Redress and ARC, for the accusations are looking more false day by day, meanwhile, you have the Australia police who are said to be blamed here, when some of them who are equipped to fight CSA, took action, not all of them of course, so the former JW cannot simply blame them in this regard because there are some in the law who are capable.

On 6/26/2020 at 5:21 AM, 4Jah2me said:

Please do not fall into the same trap as Space Merchant.  He seems to think that because the JW Org / GB write 'pretty' words about hating child abuse, that the GB and others are innocent. I notice SM compares Australia to the UK, but doesn't mention America.  I think that the GB and their Lawyers are still withholding the 20 year database of American Child Sexual Abuse victims within the JW Org.. That database must contain the names of hundreds of paedophiles in American congregations, many of them being Elders and MS and probably some men that are now higher up in the organisation. It will probably contain the names of some women too as not all paedophiles are men. 

That is where you are blind, he pointed out those articles for people to learn about what child abuse is, and even stated some people actually apply this stuff, to which I even said the following:

On 6/25/2020 at 6:09 PM, Space Merchant said:

only a handful of your faith community reads these things, know these things and apply them, the other handful may dabble a little bit on this information, but would not think it will happen to them, their family or their church congregation, and the other handful are oblivious to all things pertaining to CSA.

Not All JWs are aware of child abuse, some of them know how to dael with the situation, others know about it, but cannot handle the situation and you have some adherents who know nothing of child abuse, in addition to that, they do not even know ARC. And no on here is claiming innocence expect you.

I am comparing the two because child abuse is far greater in those areas, this is all in statistics, of course. These areas far far worse, and the reason I bring up the UK because in regards to the situation we have with JWs in Australia, it is connected. No one is knocking that child abuse is taking place in the US, however, it is smaller in comparison to areas like the UK and other parts of the EU. This is all facts some of which still stand true today.

As for the database, we do not know, some are saying they have one, some are saying they do not, others have said they have destroyed it. We should not be playing multiple choice with something serious.

In the United States, believe it or not, when it comes to Child Abuse, women, sadly, tends to get off the hook easily, and the consequences they endure are not as great as that of men. The reason for this is because of a brazen belief pushed around in society and media, some in law have let women go because of their looks, or status regardless of the institution. Men are far worse of course. When it comes to child abusers, it is often men who take this action, and primarily, according to the FBI, the abusers tend to be Caucasian/White Males, and majority of them are within the household of the person they abuse. Another one is C.O.C.A, otherwise known as Child on Child Abuse, which is a complex situation to deal with either before the abuse takes place, or afterwards because no one would suspect a child to be an abuser, be it boy or girl, but this kind of Child Abuse is far greater in the Social Media as well as Youth Clubs, compared to institutions.

That being said, all areas are plagued with Child Abuse, however, as pointed out many times, the UK, and other EU countries, even Australia, is far worse, and pedophiles in general are in positions, or seek such positions in order to gain access to children.

Also, such things have to be tackle the smart way, otherwise there will be bloodshed, for we already had vigilant justice, assassinations, and a list of other things take place, as is, with the victim and or her friends or family being killed in the process in some cases, as is, those encouraging pedophiles to strike again. This is why child abuse must be fought the correct way.

On 6/26/2020 at 5:21 AM, 4Jah2me said:

No matter what magazines are printed congregants will still not believe that there are paedophiles in their congregations. Congregants will still trust all the Elders and MS, and Circuit Overseers etc.. And Elders do not tell the whole congregation even if there is a known paedophile in the congregation.

It is not terms of belief, it is in terms of application. What @Equivocation and I have pointed out is that some people apply these things and some do not, as is with some who are not even ware of child abuse. Do not get it twisted, perhaps read what was said.

And I have given examples in the past regarding some JWs taking action, i.e. The Swahili Jehovah's Witnesses and his church, The Arabic JW in the UK, and we also have @Equivocation as an example, a teenager who is a JW, who has been applying this information.

Again, there are a handful of JWs out there that are capable of fighting child abuse, and are equip to handle the situation, to say otherwise is hypocrisy when there is proof of this, some of which, even ExJWs also pointed out.

That being said, teaching people about child abuse and how to fight it is indeed powerful.

On 6/26/2020 at 5:21 AM, 4Jah2me said:

Space Merchant has mentioned that some times parents abuse their own children. This is true and it has been proven in courts. But in the CCJW / JW org if a child has reported this to the Elders, the Elders do not believe the child or tells the child not to tell anyone else. It is the secrecy in the JW org that has made it possible for so many paedophiles to abuse so many children. 

This is fact. Majority of child abuse mostly takes place within the household, primarily done by the Father of the house, rarely it is the Mother, however, the Mother in some cases can be an accomplice. Mothers who do child abuse do it differently, sometimes it is not directly abusing the child, but they, in this case, sell off their child to be abused, something of which is very common if the sexes were reversed. This does not have to be proven in court, all it takes is investigative work internally and or by law enforcement.

Again, there are some within institutions who are not well equipped and or not equipped at all to handle child abuse. This is why, as I pointed out to even the JWs, it can be problematic if you do not train these people as well. There are examples of the a JW congregant, possibly an elder, in their church who has taken some form of against, again we can go back to ARC's case study on how the victim found out about child abuse by means of a publication from JWs.

On 6/26/2020 at 8:55 AM, 4Jah2me said:

And one other thing that puzzles me is, in the ARC investigation the Australian Bethel seemed to have reports of CSA going back 50 years, but in America, where the religion started, they only have reports / database going back to 1997.  So i wonder what they did with all previous reports ? Did they destroy them ? There could have been information previously about men that have 'high positions' in the Org now. 

Perhaps, but according to some people, they say it has been destroyed, and or not existing at all. Moreover, such a thing needs to be tackled in a smart way, otherwise there will not just be abuse on people's hands, but blood, after all, this is the United States, whereas we have several examples.

That being said, as pointed out, people are speculating and or coming with their own assumptions.

23 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Sounds like it could be pretty in sunrise and sunsets. Maybe good for photographers, hopefully some great photos. But not so good for people suffering with poor lungs. Don't know if it is exciting or worrying. 

That is the reality, however, there are some good souls that do more than take pictures, they help out in the aftermath, able and willing because they were equipped to take action.

16 minutes ago, Anna said:

You have a point there

Yep, seen it a few times, for it took a single piece of philosophy to shatter one's faith. This is why some people who have faith fear educational institutions, which is sometimes known to spread such information. There is no question such a thing can be used as a dart or an arrow by someone who is deemed an Apostate, all they have to do is aim using this dart/arrow at whatever faith they want to target and or idea they do not like  and look for the novices within that community to spread this information.

22 minutes ago, Equivocation said:

@Space Merchant Well these are examples, random ones, but people can choose to read them, of course they don't have to read any of our publications, but the information isn't too far off, and there is a lot.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g19931008/prevent-child-sexual-abuse/

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101976522

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g19931008/about-child-abuse/

My take on this is, only a handful of your faith community reads these things, know these things and apply them, the other handful may dabble a little bit on this information, but would not think it will happen to them, their family or their church congregation, and the other handful are oblivious to all things pertaining to CSA.

An abuser, a pedophile, tends to exploit such people in a community who lack in information pertaining to CSA in order to access children, and by exploit, meaning, joining your community. The other side of the spectrum is the abuser is a family member, granted most abusers are among the household of the victim, and the demographics concerning things regarding race and sex is obvious, especially in a culture today where people prompt the idea of pedophilia to some degree, even in shows, movies, etc.

That being said, more within your faith community should be doing this, then again, as pointed out, each church differs despite being in union of the same faith, liken to the example I had give about a strict pastor and a not so strict pastor, in your case, an elder. Moreover, even former members of your faith should be doing this, but from the looks of things, they do not, most of them. Some of them even, cater ideas to an onlooker who is seeking to commit harm. One of the reasons pedophiles favor religions (among other easy access areas) more is because they can easily exploit the kindness of congregants, and if lucky, they exploit their ability to forgive others, as well as hearing such ones speak of these religious institutions as some glorious paradise for the average pedophile.

Child Abuse in general, Australia, is far worse, but does not pale in comparison to the UK, which is greater, in this case. For it is not just in institutions, but online, social media, online gaming, etc. Most parents and guardians suffer from the notorious bystander syndrome when it comes to pedophilia and CSA. The former JWs, the sex abuse survivors, think none of the AFP is doing their job, even shaming them, however, they have been taking action, for a couple of weeks ago they saved about 14 children; granted, it is not as if CSA is unknown to them either, likewise with the child abuse situation among Jehovah's Witnesses.

As for the Redress Scheme, there are talks about forcing groups to sign now, some are now bringing up gov't involvement with said force.

@Thinking True. Mankind is imperfect after all. Perfection sheds no mistake whatsoever, but it's counterpart, imperfection, will commit to a mistake here and there, despite improving doing better in some instances, there is no way it can be immune to making no mistake.

That being said, I am sure everyone here has made some mistake in their lives, be it minor, or major... Perhaps even embarrassing.

@Anna One thing is for sure, Apostasy can be damaging, especially if there is a sprinkle of Unchristian Philosophies that are involved, which is indeed a faith killer for the one who is unaware and or ill-equipped to fight and or see it. Something of that nature would render who stripped of faith, and believing that God does not exist without even touching Atheistism.