Space Merchant

2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I would agree the definition of some words fail with some, especially when it comes to intent. Assertive undermines the reality of some people’s heart to become an excuse to see the true nature of the beast. A good place to start would be with the Proverbs. Ephesians 5:15-17

Meanwhile, I will accept your personal insults as they are intended.

Sadly, regardless of intent, the pushing to one side still exist for some, they do not realize it, they deny it, but it is there. This is why being knowledgeable is key, even it means hearing from both sides and finally going in to seek what the truth of the matter actually is.

3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

@Equivocation No all questions do not have a direct answer, that is worldly thinking. It is trickery just like the Pharisees tried with Jesus. 

Good try, just not good enough... I'll repeat, I will not judge you. How would I know if you are or not. I know nothing about you. Perhaps if i knew you personally for 6 months, then i could make an assumption. But even assumptions can be wrong. Sorry to disappoint you by not falling for your trick. 

I would not oppose you, i would just give you a balanced viewpoint. It would seem that you and others look for opposition deliberately. 

Pretending to be forgiving does not cut any deal with God. 

The answer he gave isn't a trick question, anyone can answer it, and it is a simple no. The reason he asked this because anyone who is affiliated with Jehovah's Witnesses are called pedophiles or lovers of pedophiles, even going as far as to promote and say the Watchtower is a pedophile paradise, anyone who loses an argument to a Jehovah's Witness will jump straight to child abuse, this should be known to you because the man who made mention of before fits that category. Therefore it isn't worldly thinking, it is a question posed by someone who has taken the persecution at full force, for one of his comments stated his JW Church was disrupted, granted he mentioned Neil Gardner (TGA), for you did show support to this guy so you are among the faction, as he refers to him and someone by the name Faithful Slave, it is evident that he is referring to what took place November 5th of last year (https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2017/11/09/ex-jehovahs-witnesses-are-crashing-kingdom-hall-meetings-to-talk-about-abuse/) whereas there was a Protest at Warwick and such taken to the streets, mind you, you were quite adamant of protesting and assume it is working. This is the same JW Church whereas a young man was fuming mad regarding someone of whom he is a relationship as the

That being said, you just said you do not judge, how do you know he isn't forgiving when his community was hit a number of times? Like you said, you do not know him, perhaps 6 months due time may help, you do not know his situation when he was the one who made comment about it, explained it here and the other thread. You do not judge, yet you are quick to somehow know who has God's approval and who does not?

Mr. Butler, I think it is time for an evaluation, not all JWs are the same as the ones you met, as you always profess, earthwide.

5 hours ago, Equivocation said:

@JOHN BUTLER I didn't ask you to judge. I asked you a question. All questions have a direct answer.

so am I or am I not? Because if you knew how much we forgive even when met with opposition from former Jehovah's Witnesses, you'd see that but every time we are shot down in every attempt. Some of us ridiculed and demonized yet we still are peaceful towards those who oppose, our fellow man.

He will not answer that because it would go over his own resolve in his past comments, but I can. Clearly, regardless if I know you are not, you are not a pedophile and a lover of pedophiles for it is known to anyone a lone individual and or a small number of people do not make up the masses, therefore Jehovah's Witnesses as a whole are indeed good people, those who become Jehovah's Witnesses their intent is unknown, they can pursuit the faith, one can be a gang stalker, and of course, pertaining to Mr. Butler, one's intent to cause harm to a child, a pedophile, for again, a lone pedophile who exploits a religious institution to gain some position does not make up the masses, yet at times he tends to throw church stewards and or elders on the same level in other instances, even comparing the UK ones to others, for as far as I am concern, Butler has never met Kathgar, so to make a statement about elders of a JW church to define all of them is meaningless if you have not met all of them.

As for the other question, there are indeed 2 factions, among both factions several branches, but there is another, well 2, one being former Jehovah's Witnesses who are not on a warpath against their former faith, going as far as to even defend it and it's people, as well as defending themselves from an onslaught of insult and verbal threats from any disgruntled former JW online, which is evident. Then you have Anti-JWs, who are pretty much atheists, not only they hate both JWs and ExJws with a passion, they hate Christendom as a whole and will not respect the bible at all, the leader they follow, if I made had goes by the name Friendly Atheist, the other one, I forget his name, but this one affiliated himself in pornography.

To add more fuel to the fire, when their atheist community does something, they are quick to defend themselves, but when others do it, it is a sign of confrontation, which is the case with any who is affiliated with Christendom, be it main and or true, this includes their view of anyone in Restorationism, in this case, JWs.

The lack of understanding stems from those who do not bear it, but those who do bear it can discern.

7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

There is a lot of discussion about being a good Christian Man ... but from your above comment, and your perspective, most males are woefully deficient in being a MAN. 

Having male genitalia does not make one a man ... even cows are so equipped ....

.... and CHICKENS!

 

You misinterpret my words, a good Christian man, or woman, can be subjected to brutality by other Christians, it's called infighting and it does exist, and bystander effect effects ALL of them, regardless of their background and the situation.

Let's put you and Srecko in a situation that derives from my country.

You see a violent verbal dispute go about 2 women in a merchant's market, and a fight nearly broke out and it did not happen, the next few days came about and out of nowhere occultist were seeking this woman out, revealing that the one who started the conflict not only had ties to these 2 of these occultist, but hired them to do away with the other woman how they see fit. You witness this going about, so what would you or Srecko would do? I can tell you right now, such ones, their intent isn't a one and done beating, nor was it rape, occultist in that country will tear and gut people in the most gruesome fashion, the only reason they lure people and or take people by force. Do not expect the police because in rural areas, half of them are for these occultist and the other half are not wanting to take risk because they too will have to deal with their actions, for they become victim or their family members.

Clearly you would not be able to do a thing and even if you had, they'd attack you on the spot and or take you also and be twice as worse with you.

Nowadays this is on a minimum, but this can and will actually happen, it isn't too far from someone sending a Hitman, minus the wickedness.

This is one of many examples.

The JW I mentioned who witnessed the crime and it's illegality was a teenager around the ages 16-17, and granted he lived in that neighborhood and was preaching there, he witnessed the ordeal with the underage prostitute and those around here, if he did take action, it is not unknown to anyone of what would happen, if you or Srecko were in his shoes, most likely they will come for you, hunting you down, perhaps a drive-by should you say anything, or they would go for your family before they come after you, which is the common case with gangsters regarding someone they are targeting. Bystander Effect would kick in even though you want to do something, perhaps speak up but you cannot, mainly when you are one man, or in this situation, one man of color. The police can be corrupted also and even if you ask them, they'd set you up to be in the hands of the gangsters, and should you try to convince the underage prostitute to flee from the gang, she, who is already mentally linked with the gangsters, would also expose you.

So technically you have no ground here, the only viable option is to gain community support while remaining anonymous and it would most likely do something, however, the problems will persist for issues like this cannot be 100% purged from a neighborhood, let alone all over the United States and or around the Worldwide.

There is a time to be wise and at some of these times, one cannot be stupid when they know the risks, at the same time should you play your part, know that action can also reap consequences to others and or oneself.

Also check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

It is complicated, but it is true.

 

On 11/2/2018 at 4:32 PM, Equivocation said:

@JOHN BUTLER If they never claimed to be inspired, it should be obvious that they are taking notes. The Bible verses you posted cites what context of it reads, the nwt Bible shows this too.

Us men are imperfect, and even prophets, priests and the anointed fits this description, for in present day, we still never heard them, orally say they are, not even in the past and there is evidence.

causes for stumbling: Or “stumbling blocks.” The original meaning of the Greek word skanʹda·lon is thought to have referred to a trap; some suggest that it was the stick in the trap to which bait was attached. By extension, the word came to refer to any impediment that would cause one to stumble or fall. In a figurative sense, it refers to an action or a circumstance that leads a person to follow an improper course, to stumble or fall morally, or to fall into sin. At Luke 17:2, the related verb skan·da·liʹzo, translated “stumble,” could also be rendered “become a snare to; cause to sin.”

Do not expect much. Everyone knows that even when they were Bible Students, their own Pastor never claimed to be inspired, yet former disgruntled ones always say JWs have claimed to be inspired, well their leaders. The irony is they say nothing of the ones they now follow, who did claim inspiration, a direct counterpart of JWs however these leaders re of mainstream Christendom.

These same people do not know their Bible as well as they think, mainly when it comes to omitted verses and the like, ignorant of Textual Criticism.

44 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

This discussion has been an eye-opener!

I always wondered why Santa Clause gave those mountains of presents to "good" little boys and girls, and a whole industry was made having their pictures taken on Santa's lap.

I should have been suspicious when I heard that Department Store Santa say "Have you been a GOOD little girl, Ho Ho Ho?"

Santa isn't a good man, especially if you are aware that in his name it can be spelled out as Satan. Papa Fet Nouvel (Father Christmas) in the Caribbean is known for killing people - that should tell you something.

That being said, today's folk are not different from the Romans when it comes to those celebrations. They adhere to Traditions of Men and not of God.

@BillyTheKid46 The thing here is people out there are doing research and they understand how the ruling is for your faith community. But it seems although the Jehovah's Witnesses are not immune to the problems of abuses just as many, even us Unitarians of all denominations are not immune to it either, the actions of one does not define the masses, but sadly people believe this. In my case, not only am I a Biblical Unitarian, but I am someone of color and regardless of what someone does or says, they define me as a criminal, granted with what I had to deal with the other day, as with many in this community.

There will always be hate, and there will always be someone, even former ones of your own who are disgruntled to the point that they believe anything another former member says and believes it, as I told someone else and Butler before, the ones they adhere to believe that you JWs got a whole weapon bunker and poisons under your church, which is untrue, they tend to attack you for the whole blood issue, not realizing that even other Christians share that same view and this view applies to several groups of people due to their culture, etc.

But is is crazy how people tend to be close minded when the whole world has problems, not just solely a group, and these problems affect everyone.

That being said, if you have a group of disgruntled ones who are willing to break law and or attack other religions and their own to take out one religious group, that is seen as a problem and a concern.

One of the very reasons I am grateful that I studied all faiths to understand where they are coming from and their rules and beliefs.

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And i still disagree with you. I don't care what you study and what you know. You have great knowledge but do you have experience of the JW Org personally ? You are not one and I presume you would not be one. 

Unfortunately you have to care because whenever it comes to a person and or group's practice, anyone who is against them will say something entirely different, examples being when it is spoken of that Jehovah's Witnesses having guns in their churches, poisons at the ready and the like, this isn't true, yet others, profess it as a truth, even going as far as to say their own religious leaders are planning a Jim Jones type attack from leaders to their church followers.

I have studied several religions for years, this includes the Jehovah's Witnesses, as with other Abrahamic faiths, the reason is to understand where they are coming from and understand that even former members of the faith can say things that do not line up with it, this goes for other things such a Islam whereas some people make say things and add from conspiracy in order to justify a violent response to a person and or group, be it verbally or physically. You of all people should know how this is in the United Kingdom, especially London.

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Many of the victims Earthwide have said they were not believed because of the two witness rule.  Don't believe it, ok, have your own thoughts on it all. 

How are you so sure that this is the ruling vs. what the actually meaning of it is? I have confronted ExJWs also, some of them who even threaten me with death, one of them being the one you mentioned before, of which you linked his gofundme page, that same exJW allied people to attack others, especially those who were against them in their resolve.

You, as with them stated that this two witness ruling protects any wrongdoer in the JW church, mainly when it comes to pedophilia, and yet the actually ruling and application is vastly different from what the exJWs speak of, for even Anti-JWs recognize what the ruling actually is and I quote myself (You called me a parrot for stating something that was actually true as with the exposure of how NBC is - for NBC is a mainstream news media that is part of the agenda to spread misinformation and a list of other things)

Quote

Now, they've mentioned the whole Two Witness Ruling the faith group has and according to NBC they stated the following: one that requires two witnesses to a crime to prove guilt, a tenet that's in keeping with the Witnesses' strict, often literal interpretation of the Bible.

There is more to it and not much is known when people do not do the research.

We already know Jehovah's Witnesses are Restorationist, meaning they take the Bible seriously, for Restorationism, also described as Christian primitivism, is the belief that Christianity has been or should be restored along the lines of what is known about the apostolic early church, which restorationists see as the search for a more pure and more ancient form of the religion. Fundamentally, "this vision seeks to correct faults or deficiencies (in the church) by appealing to the primitive church as a normative model." according to The Encyclopedia of the Stone-Campbell Movement: Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).

As for their rule, to them, their policy of  states: "When any one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused of an act of child abuse, the local congregation elders are expected to investigate. Two elders meet separately with the accused and the accuser to see what each says on the matter. For this is based in Deuteronomy 19:15 and reaffirmed in Matthew 18:15-17.

From this alone, it should be noted that this two witness ruling has nothing to do with whether the alleged abuse is reported to the authorities, despite what some people even NBC is led to believe, for we have to thank the ARC to better clarify this rule the WT has. For even though they have this policy and or ruling, even in their books and publications  never state that abuse or crime should not be reported unless there are two witnesses to the crime, case and point.

The two witness rule as applied by Jehovah's Witnesses and their church is only applied to determine if a judicial committee should be formed to handle any form/type of sin and or wrongdoing within the JW church itself, hence internally criminally, for JWs are not Law Enforcement. WT pastors also send letters to the elders and stewards of their church to show that anyone is free to report child abuse to the authorities at any time without sanctions from the church, even encouraging such reporting.

But again, people who do not do the research themselves will constantly say that this is bad policy since child molesters usually do not attack their target with others around, such also are lead to believe that and or even profess that this ruling protects the abuser and not the abused. Granted JWs take the Bible both seriously and literally, such ruling stems from the Bible itself, regarding them, for they, and or the bible, according to how this ruling is, repeatedly speaks of the need for two witnesses to establish any matter, as seen in a few verses for example: Matthew 18:16, 2 Corinthians 13:1,  and 1 Timothy 5:19.

And because of this like this, people tend to throw things out the window, even calling these Bible  and passages like these obscure and not applicable in these modern times - for they forget that Jehovah's Witnesses, are Restorationist, for Restorationist do everything in their power to separate themselves from mainstream Christendom and align themselves with the how everything was done in the early church, thus taking scripture literally, therefore they, the Jehovah's Witnesses, believe that it is best for them to follow the words of the son of God and the inspired apostle Paul rather than the opinions of others, hence their strong stance.

So the fact of the matter is, many people, even NBC, do not realize just what the two witness ruling entails without making the research. Others may know but they don't want you to know and just so they try to hide just who or what can serve as two witnesses, in this sense.

With all these facts, it is unscriptural to apply excommunication an individual at the mouth of one witness, in terms of ruling, for God's word should take precedent over the thinking of imperfect ones. Regarding Jehovah's Witnesses, applying the two witness ruling, on their part, is reasonable and logical, and clearly not to otherwise deny the Bible itself.

The situation is a bit different regarding a single witness, but a bit of research one can actually understand it.

So I am 100% aware of the ruling, as with everyone else, mind you, the information I got was from a former JW who does not align himself with the ones you get your information from, she is this way because of the constant disruption of church service of JWs done by ExJWs who are this way.

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Having been a JW in more than one congregation, for many years,  i know how some Elders work. Having been threatened with being disfellowshipped by an elder that didn't have the authority to do it, I have seen their 'works'.  They do not go by the rules all the time, or, in fact, it's more the point of, the written rules on paper are just a front.  Those things you might read on paper, written by the Governing Body or more likely by their Legal Departments, are all a complete front. They do it because it's what is expected of them. But they don't live by it.

Regardless if you are a JW, former or not, and or studied with them it is not unknown to anyone how a church elder works, for the Bible speaks of stewards of the church that do the exact same thing when it comes to maintaining, helping church members, moreover, your former JW church does not define ALL JW Churches, example, another UK like you, Kathgar is a JW, he is most likely an elder at this point and isn't a fan of hate, nor is he a fan of the Trinity and he has expressed that time and time again, at the same time, he treats all in his JW church like his own blood and family, at the same time he holds true to what the Bible says, for if one is expelled form the church, it is applied, and according to him, he visit to encourage them to not only return, but to read the Bible extensively.

If they do not go by the rules then why is it they have the ability to expel when it comes to wrong doing? They do live by what Jesus entrusted the church in terms of excommunication and the like, so they are following. Other than that, I am aware of their legal department, and granted Restorationist are not the type to lie - I would not call it as much of a front, as you claim.

I do not read the papers, it is mainstream media and I believe I made myself clear I adhere to independent media sources that are not bogged down by the government - reasons for doing so, especially with what the US an their allies, the UK, France, Saudi Arabia are doing and the numbers of people whom they have intentionally killed, people like Serena Shim. That being said some independents know who the Jehovah's Witnesses are and even they are able to understand how they operate an their rules and regulations, and also know that even the Jehovah's Witnesses are not immune when it comes to pedophiles entering their churches without them knowingly, furthermore.

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Become a JW yourself if you think they are so right. Spend five years in the JW Org, see the things that really happen.  Otherwise stop pretending to know things that you have no real idea about.  

I studied them as I do with others for several years, I have talked to both the current and the former, as with the disgruntled ones, in which I defended a man whom they attacked, as I made this known several months ago, for this man was not even a JW yet his actions prevented chaos in his neighborhood.

There's a reason as to why some ExJWs ran him off social media, because the 2 hour video he posted was actually true of the situation, and now that this information is gone, ExJws are in full force since that day.

I do not pretend, so do not assume something without valid proof, a route I suggest you yourself not cross Mr. Butler because the last person who assume I pretended things, a racist man in fact, things did not go in his favor.

That being said, I suggest you not be oblivious to the fact that Bible Hermeneutics, the study of the Bible does not exist or the fact the studying of religions does not exist, when it reality, both these things do in fact exist and many, many people study it, me included granted my own father ha studied the Bible the rest of his life and I continued that legacy and will do the same for my own, in addition, to a great deal of things and information that I am aware of that you are not, as with all here, i.e. Ambrosia, False Flags, Broken States, Shadow Government, etc. and most importantly, who is really with Babylon the Great.

I will always profess truth when someone says something different, Mr. Butler and the truth has been spoken in terms of how their ruling is, even ARC clarified it and I made that information known to you before.

28 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

There is an old Japanese saying ... something about Cataract removal .....

Don't know about a saying, however a name can be brought up: Akahoshi Takayuki.

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And all the while the Org / GB / Elders were hiding Pedophiles and allowing Child Abuse and using the Two Witness rule as an excuse. And would you tell me the GB are not hypocrites ? 

The Two Witness ruling of Jehovah's Witnesses isn't used on covering abusers, I explained this to you and others before on this thread:

NBC cannot be trusted anyways as of what we had already seen with the whole pipe bomb things an what they tried to do to Muller.

Gang stalkers may have entered the JW churches also - another factor and or possibility, granted they go to all churches nowadays seeking men and women, mostly women. If the male was a gang stalker, most likely he would not care for any of your teachings, but he will "Zack Morris" his way to the nearest girl/women of the church to win her over and from there any sexual desire of the gang stalker will manifest mainly if they are alone. On the other side of the spectrum, there are those who cannot keep such a habit in check and there are those who do.

And when they do that, they can influence one to leave and or shy away from their own faith. It is a bit different with people of color, for I had my fair share of gang stalkers who were seeking out people of race/ethnic groups not for such of what is mentioned, but to harass and discriminate, to enact racist insults against, etc.

@JOHN BUTLER First/Second Epistle of Paul to Timothy also known as The First/Second Epistle of Paul the Apostle to Timothy

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Epistle_to_Timothy
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Epistle_to_Timothy

Yes all text is inspired, but at the same time it is also best to know who wrote what and when.

29 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Ah, but what would you do to a man that had assaulted someone else, someone not able to defend themselves ? 

Would you turn away and say it's not my business ? 

Most people would succumb to the bystander syndrome/effect, even police officers and military personnel. They will not do anything because it can put them in danger physically and even cause them their life, example, a situation I posted before of a man who jumped in to stop a fight, he sends up getting a pool Stick jammed into his head, another situation whereas a child saved someone only for him to get killed, another whereas a man was shot and killed in front of his family and kids and I am pretty sure even JWs know this for I did post that one JW stumbled upon child prostitution, he was unable to do anything because the people recognized him in the neighborhood and knew where he lived his friends and family, should be taken action, he would have been dead, or his loved ones and it is not unknown to anyone what gang members who are affiliated in the practice will do to their victims, even mobsters too.

Because of things like this people succumb to this effect, although most succeed, the high risk is there, and it goes on all realms of violence, abuse, corruption, etc.

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

There is a very real difference between "kicking a man when he is down" when someone has stumbled or become a victim of folly, or chance and circumstance .... and "kicking a man when he is down" who just tried to assault you ... or did in fact assault you, and in combat you prevailed and got him to the ground.

In that case, I would kick him while he was down until he completely and unquestionably had the ability to fight permanently removed from his sorry body ....  and completely ceased to be a threat to anyone.

THAT ... IS CONTEXT!

On the contrary, what I stated goes hand in hand with what I said previously.

And I will quote myself again, as Christians, when an enemy falls we are not to rejoice, and when he is caused to stumble, we should not b joyful to heart. Therefore we should not being boastful and or anything of that nature when it comes to an enemy an or opponent, especially at all, otherwise it would defeat the purpose of the very passages made a quote of before.

That being said, to you I direct this, if a Christian who profess truth to other Christians who teach what is false ends up being beaten to a bloody mess by those same disgruntled Christians, even when he is down, they continue to beat him some more, how would that make you as a Christian feel granted you are not even on his side and or neutral to the ordeal, spectating? Clearly you won't be rejoicing over this, but some will rejoice, and they will shout and yell for the disgruntled ones to continue harming the man who is near death.

With that in mind, a man who does no harm to you should not be that position, in a grander scale, such things should not be taught to the people, getting even or fire with fire, yet they do it anyway, even the children practice this.

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

What in this words told by Jesus need some extra context with some special interpretation, that is not visible while reader reading it? - “You have heard that it was said, ...."

Those who listened Jesus at moment he gave sermon knew well WHO told them;

1) You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.

2) You shall not commit adultery

3) Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.

4) Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made

5) Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.

6) Love your neighbor  and hate your enemy.

Foremost commandments are still in use and the very fact that the Law Commandments hangs on to them still to this day, therefore, the context is indeed there.

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

It is noticeable how Jesus have extra appendix on every of this listed, quoted things he made. Did he go beyond already said and written? He gave some  additional explanation? He gave not just an explanation, but even a guide that differs from what they were taught.

He has not, for what he speaks of is of what is written.

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

All this 6 points you can find in Ten commands and Mosaic Law. But one you would not find - "hate your enemy". But Bible have idea of hating. Not only hating bad things in general or bad deeds made by people. Bible talking about hate that is directed towards other people. 

There is no law, the Mosaic Law that says to hate your enemy. So far you have not proven anything thus far, Srecko.

You also still haven't shown anything pertaining to political leaders, therefore, you, Srecko, are adding to the text, thus going out of context as seen here.

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

General idea of "hating" is visible in book Ec. 3:8. ...a time to love and a time to hate. 

So suddenly you do not want to talk about the Law and the commandments? Why the change? In this case, do you yourself understand this verse?

Because already the Strong's stack up against you, before I post them I'd like to see your resolve.

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Psalm 139:21,22 ....Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Hosea 9:15 Every evil of theirs is in Gilgal; there I began to hate them 

Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters— yes, even his own life— he cannot be My disciple.

So how does that equal, according to you, to a law that does not exist among the Jews?

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

In sermon, Jesus talking about NOT HATING enemy but also about HATING family members. 

So why assume such in your previous response? Jesus did in fact gave the ability to bind and loosen and even spoke of relatives even family members who do not accept him, the Christ an the teachings.

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

You can talk about so called CONTEXT how much you wish and want, but what is said - it is said, and how it was said -it was said. WTJWorg in some of Bible verses  found basis for shunning, avoiding and ignoring those who disagree about WT doctrines.    

You yourself do not understand context, for if you had, you realize what Jesus professed about the Church HE has built. The Watchtower never existed 2,000 years ago, but the apostolic church did, with proof and evidence and even the Didache points to it;s existence, the very reason as to why only few Christians are trying to apply the practices and teachings of the Church that Jesus has built. Case and point.

The expelling and Shunning command itself stems from the Christ himself. Mathew 16, 18 and what Paul put into practice.

Expelling/Shunning had been entrusted to the disciples, and on to those who led the church, the very reason as to why excommunication exist. You've been schooled on this before, and it can happen again if you wish to go that route - I do not mind speaking some sense to a man who remains ignorant of the church that existed.

Verily I say unto you, what things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The simple and the lukewarm will never understand anything from the Bible, and after what I had witnessed today, I see it in such ones like you.

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

In one moment Jesus making corrections about Mosaic Law and oral teaching, oral law. In next moment he has told something that WT scholars using for own Oral laws and commands and instructions.

Jesus never changed the Law, the Law remains by means of the foremost commandments. They still hang and is practiced today by means of bible Principles.

On 11/2/2018 at 1:36 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Do you still want continue to insist on so called Context? What Context, when whole  Bible can be used for particular interest of  governing elite. :))) Each group will find its context and claim how that is A Context. :))

Yes, the context should be spoken and this time no one is going to be soft about it either. If you want to go over that of what Jesus entrusted, I would when he does come, he give you time to make answer as to why you are shifting and or breaking away from his Word. I suggest you read Matthew 7:20-23.

You do not have to like expelling, but to remove it when it was commanded by means of the Christ and applied by his followers, to their followers ad even the students of the apostle and onward, you'll answer to that when he returns, so have many who choose to go down that route.

On 11/2/2018 at 3:10 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

OK, i can "swallow" this interpretation and make careful agree with idea you present, BUT when you say "to love less" what you really mean by that? What is truly, actually everyday way how you and other JW member SHOW this "less love" ??!!  And what when your family member decide not to be JW or stop to be JW?

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Jacob made love to Rachel also, and his love for Rachel was greater than his love for Leah. And he worked for Laban another seven years.

 When the Lord saw that Leah was not loved, he enabled her to conceive, but Rachel remained childless.  Leah became pregnant and gave birth to a son. She named him Reuben,[a] for she said, “It is because the Lord has seen my misery. Surely my husband will love me now.”

 

Here we have some gradation, degrees, in feelings of love. (Hate can also have gradation)

greater love

grater than

not loved

 

In one moment we have information (inspired information) how Jacob was not just showed  LESS love to Leah, but inspired report said how Lord saw that Leah WAS NOT LOVED. Here we have very different conclusion. Not loved at all. 

Is it possible to say how sometimes when somebody say, I love my dfd family member less, in fact means -- I do not love him/her at all? 

What literal message is here in Genesis? If you have two women in your life and you dare to love one less (or not love at all), than God will punished woman you love more. Or do i missed something and not saw some greater Context? :)) 

In next post/comment i will put another example and ask you to find a context and lesson for 21 century people. 

This is a first, you never liked Abraham, so why go about those Jacob? For last I checked you thought of Abraham as though he was an agent of Satan, as well as being selfish. Now there is no "graduation" of love, as you claim. Jacob loved both his wives, however context itself draws to to the fact that one woman was able to bare children and the other was unable to bare children, thus being barren and it is evident that Jacob wanted children, hence his sons are to become of the 12 Tribes. God came to the aid of one of the women so that she can actually bare children, and instances like this was common in those days for a woman who is barren to feel such a way when she is among those who can give birth to a child,it isn't a surprise. Also to clarify 6 tribes are of one wife, the other 3 bears 2, thus making it 12.

references and footnotes for was not loved even tells you that Leah was unable to bear children, for anyone with minimum education can point that out.

That being said, comparing this to expelled ones is a folly, for expelled persons do not act in such a way and or the latter when it comes to baring children.

If we have to take example of expelling we would have to check out the priest Elijah, not Jacob, for it would have made more sense.

And no, as far as I know, Restorationist when it comes to expelling/shunning practice number 3, so they do care if someone of their own loses church ties by means of excommunication. For this is the 8th time I have to link this website to you, educate yourself because this time around, things must be said. http://shamelesspopery.com/biblical-excommunication/

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

1. So David rose and he and his men went and struck⁴⁷ down among the Phi·lisʹtines two^[i]hundred men, and David came bringing their foreskins⁴⁸ and giving them in full number to the king, to form a marriage alliance with the king. In turn Saul gave him Miʹchal his daughter as a wife.⁴⁹

 

^{If you like, please skip all that intrigues between Saul and David and fighting for power and prestige.  I am not interested in background about problems that those two individual had among them. It will be very good to see and understand what in this act is precious for Christian today to imitate when they found themselves in premarital period, about money and material issue, new family bonds,  .....}

^{In this and other stuff about David we found description -  And David was continually acting prudently in all his ways, and Jehovah was with him.}  

^{According to this statement it was ok to kill 200 people, even enemies, as price for bride. Bloody money, we would say today. Nice beginning  of family life. Miʹchal, Saul’s daughter must be very proud and happy when heard about trophy David has won, collected.  It seems how such way of living was the best and only possible if you want to survive in such society. We today are too much meek in comparison to manly, macho individuals as David.}

^{Well, we have two messages from Bible:}

^{Be meek like Jesus (read - let people spit on you)} 

^{Be prudent like David (read - don't mess with me).}

^{... now please would someone give context of this two teachings :))}

The Philistines were not just enemies of God's people, they were enemies of God himself, hence why God's people are always in conflict with enemies of God, especially those who want to do harm to them, take their wives and children and so forth, one of them even threaten to kill a boy and feed him to the wild animals. The 200 men in question were indeed enemies of God and the only reason Saul sent David to begin with because Saul grew jealous and angry with David and attempted to kill him, and he sent David to be killed by the hands of the Philistines, however God was with David, the only reason why David prevailed, and this is not the first time.

And no, we are not living in such a society today, however, with how things are, it is more sophisticated and well calculated compared to our ancient counterparts.

Now we see here you are attempting to go out of context and trying to compare David to Jesus, may I ask, was Jesus alive in David's Day on earth when God had already told David someone will soon come to sit on his throne but not in his day?

Read your Bible Srecko because this shows you do not know what that passage entails.

@Jesus.defender I answered half of these before, just know when I hit all 119 things you have mentioned, you will be proven wrong again - bob the builder.

The Trinity is a heresy and it will not prevail against those who truly defend the Christ.

What kills your list is the fact that God cannot die, he is the life-giver and Jesus claimed to have a God several times in Scripture.

@BillyTheKid46 That too, for YHWH also means to exist. For all bene elohims come into existence because of elohim himself - God our Father, who has created them.

@Martha Braun Amistadi You will not get a message across to someone who does not accept/agree the bible 100% and it's teachings.

On 10/30/2018 at 7:24 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

There is a LOT of money, prestiege, accolades, and status  to be had  in making yourself into a fortune teller, Shaman, Witch Doctor, Snake-Oil Salesman, Prophet, Prognosticator, Savant, Priest, Counselor, Governing Body, or Elder.

A LOT of money!

Technically ... it may not be yours ... but you control it ... without any accountability whatsoever, to those footing the bill.

Not your "followers".

Not even the IRS.

... even if you have taken a vow of poverty ... you fly Business Class, and stay in very fine hotels, sleep warm, eat well, and have a staff to do anything you want done.

It is a VERY FINE OCCUPATION, much to be sought after, .... if you can keep up the razzle-dazzle .... and keep down your gag reflex.

Granted I had witnessed and had experienced an aftermath of both  shamans and Witch-Doctors, they do not take money, or bribes. The only thing they care for is blood, death and power, for money is meaningless to them. Actually followers of the Devil believe they can gain power from him which puts others as risk, a very high risk. There are some things taking place that will not allow you to sleep peacefully at night.

That being said, nothing cannot bring down the apostolic church, many have tried, no one can stop it, and her people. There are those for God and those against him and those against him will be met with the Sword of the Christ and the army of which God gave him.

So anything regarding occultism, dark magic and or blood rituals, etc. All this will be purged from the earth for good.

On 9/18/2018 at 2:20 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Just one of many changes WT made in recent years. 

¹⁹ In review, what have we learned? In the beginning of this article, we raised three “when” questions. We first considered that the great tribulation did not begin in 1914 but will start when the United Nations attacks Babylon the Great. Then, we reviewed why Jesus’ judgment of the sheep and the goats did not begin in 1914 but will occur during the great tribulation. Finally, we examined why Jesus’ arrival to appoint the faithful slave over all his belongings did not occur in 1919 but will take place during the great tribulation. So, then, all three “whens” apply to the same future time period—the great tribulation. How does this adjusted view further affect our understanding of the illustration of the faithful slave? Also, how does it affect our understanding of other parables, or illustrations, of Jesus that are being fulfilled during this time of the end? These important questions will be considered in the following articles.

source of paragraph: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2013530

But the irony here is we know Jehovah's Witnesses, Bible Student at the time, believed Jesus to become King and both the existing and non-existing Christian denominations stood by the Bible Students. Furthermore, it is not unknown to anyone what the War in Heaven was all about and what happen in 1914, for it was not war only that took place, a great sickness and several earthquakes took place that steam for some years, this is not unknown to anyone.

On 9/18/2018 at 2:20 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Here in this paragraph we see just some of many changes from past teachings in Watchtower ideology.

Their Christology as always been the same if you understood the pastor of the Bible Students, Russell's, study and application of Jesus becoming a King that year. For if it had changed, the gospel would have ceased prior to what happen, for even the JWs know that a time will come when their preaching will cease - which was not he case.

I posted here before of all existing and non-existing faiths that shared that same view of Jesus becoming a King in that time and Satan's cast out resulting in the sickness, war and death that took place all in 1914 at a grand scale.

On 9/18/2018 at 2:20 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

What is The Truth?

The truth stems from the very inspired Scriptures from the Bible. For it is used to teach, to profess, and to give/take insight (2 Timothy 3:16)

On 9/18/2018 at 2:20 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Can The Truth Stop To Be True?

No, it cannot. After what went down mid-2015, the truth about God will prevail, nothing can stop it, for God's Word triumphs all who try to change and or stop it. As did our Church Fathers who defended the truth, as do us all who know what is the truth.

On 9/18/2018 at 2:20 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Does The Truth have the Owner?

God the Father, the one and only El Shaddai. He is the God of our Lord, Christ Jesus, he is the God of me, and he is the God of you.

Praise Yah.

On 9/18/2018 at 2:20 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Why do some people like to claim that Only They know a Certain Truth?

Because from the 4th century and onward, falsehood at entered into the teachings. So there is 2 factions, those with the truth and those who do not have the truth, and both faction consist of groups.

So those who claim they know and or have the truth, speaks the truth if they adhere to the teachings of the Church and apply it by means of ministering, preaching, what have you.

On 9/18/2018 at 2:20 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Does some Truth exists outside of our awareness of the existence of such truth?

No because others who claim to have the truth do not have it. They abide by the accursed teachings that are not of the Church and will do anything and everything to justify it as truth when it is not i.e. religious authority is solely men and not women but they preach women can do the same when it is against God's Order, moreover, they will go above and beyond to say you are shaming women and or being ungodly because of defending God's order. We also have those who have the Bible to defend and justify homosexuality, altering Paul's Words or what happen in Sodom and Gomorrah.

Among all things, one of the things that is against the true is the Trinity.

On 9/18/2018 at 2:20 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Why do we argue how some Truth or Truths can never change?

The real truth can never change, if anything, those who study the truth make adjustment to Christ-life lifestyle and application of Scripture, especially in times when things are changing and new things from the Bible is learned.

On 9/18/2018 at 2:20 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Why can not we name The Truth, which has ceased to be true, that it is a Lie or at least Not The Truth?

Because one can tell what is truth and what is not truth. God allows those who can see and understand the truth, inasmuch, to apply said truth. And when a truth is known, nothing will stop God's people from what is true in this imperfect world.

On 9/18/2018 at 2:20 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Do these truths from paragraph 19 cease to be true on the day of publication in the Watchtower Journal on July 15 2013 or are they, in fact, have never been The Truth?

Well you have the book right there, it shouldn't be hard to see what it is conveying. But you are one to not read into things as with all discussions.

On 11/1/2018 at 2:18 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

1) study it

many JW study Bible, but how it is possible that also many of them not saw "errors" in doctrines for all this decades. How is possible that many JW accepted so many teaching and instructions that was later been abandoned? Well it seems how something is/was lacking in our personal Bible study for all these years "in the truth".

That is because in Restorationism, when they learn new things, mainly when it comes to application and or a shift in lifestyle, they apply it. For example, it is no surprise that Bible Students use to celebrate Christmas, as did those before them, but when they later learn the origins of the holiday, they ceased it, although they didn't take an extreme approach as their counterparts, but the application has been made, therefore, it can be noted, even by fact, that Jehovah's Witnesses are indeed Restorationist Christians, which is also fact according to their practices in a book I cited before.

On 11/1/2018 at 2:18 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

2) accept the logic as facts  

as we all are witnesses to that too, wrong logic can deceive us.

As to what facts are you pointing to? So far I do not see any deception, as of recently that becomes true back in October whereas one can see who is on the right side regarding God.

On 11/1/2018 at 2:18 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

3) holy spirit opens our minds and hearts wide to understand 

do you talking, in this statement, about "to be inspired" by God? If you are, than this is contrariwise, in opposition to GB claim how them, as anointed ones, are not inspired by holy spirit. If anointed are not inspired, how non-anointed can be inspired? To confuse and make foggy on all this, that same GB teaching how, despite the fact they are "not inspired by spirit", they are "guided by spirit". :)) 

God Word is inspired. As for the chosen ones of which you call anointed, they are not inspired or claim to be, never have they made such a claim. Even in the Bible we also see this, for example, the Mother of Samuel was mistaken to be a crazed drunk by a man of God, High Priest Eli, when in reality she was praying,

Every year, Elkanah would offer a sacrifice at the Shiloh sanctuary, and give Penninah and her children a portion but he gave Hannah a double portion "because he loved her, and the LORD [YHWH] had closed her womb" (1 Samuel 1:5). One day Hannah went up to the temple, and prayed with great weeping (I Samuel 1:10), while Eli the High Priest was sitting on a chair near the doorpost.

In her prayer, she asked God for a son and in return she vowed to give the son back to God for the service of God. She promised he would remain a Nazarite all the days of his life. According to Lillian Klein, the value of women is demonstrably enhanced by their child-bearing capacities. The narrative takes her pain and places it in her personal failure and then draws it out in a communal context. The desperation of Hannah’s vow indicates that merely bearing a male child would establish her in the community.

Eli thought she was drunk and questioned her. When she explained herself, he blessed her and sent her home. Hannah conceived and bore a son, and named him Samuel, literally Heard by God, "since she had asked the Lord for him" (1 Samuel 1:20 ). The role of women giving names in premonarchic Israel suggests an authoritative social role, at least within the family. She raised him until he was weaned and brought him to the temple along with a sacrifice.

And we have other examples too, in the Bible, so it is not a surprise today when anyone who is said to be chosen by God is not inspired, but they speak of God's Word, which is inspired. Let that sink in.

On 11/1/2018 at 2:18 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

4) unique above all, is how the Bible's teachings are accepted by millions of people in just the same way

It is "unique" too, how people in some periods of time accepted also some teachings and was been deceived. Modern examples are; Nazi ideology and era when millions of German people followed Fuhrer, or Communism ideology in east Europe or more better example is China people or North Korea. Millions of people accepted teachings in same way. Capitalism is also unique ideology for millions worldwide.   

And what does this have to do with people accepting Bible Truth?

I recall I told you when I visited Thailand, I spoke to some there who didn't even know what a Bible was, and they later learned not what a bible is, but God's Word. Elsewhere I seen women who strive to serve God 100% and even in Africa as well.

Perhaps if you did what Jesus did when he actually preached, according to the four gospel accounts, and that his own followers preached, as with the the Christians of Pentecost who went out like an army to preach the gospel, you'd see that for yourself.

If the Lord asks you to spread the message, that is a command, if you ignore that command, well, when the Christ returns, you won't be recognized at all.

23 minutes ago, Josué2 said:

L'important c'est d'être connue de Dieu.

(Romains 10:19, 20) [...] » 20 Et Isaïe ose même dire : « J’ai été trouvé par ceux qui ne me cherchaient pas ; je suis devenu connu de ceux qui ne demandaient pas à me parler. [...] 

Exactement. 

14 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Yes it is horrid and getting worse. Is Armageddon coming ?  How long will it be ? Do we need to be in a specific organisation ? 

Some scripture talk about being in our inner rooms, other scriptures mention two men working in the field and two women working at the grinding mill ( I think ) , one taken and one left behind.  Another scripture says something about not going back into your house to get an outer garment, I think.  Problem is, i cant keep it all in my head properly.  

Jesus has said the end is near, so we should be ready, vigilant and enduring, knowing that God's Day will be upon us soon. One interesting thing that has been going on lately is the marriage between the political powers and religion, something of which was in full swing since 2015, but spoken of time and time again since the early 2000s, furthermore, this push for interfaith while the other seeks security, but in doing so destroying and or siphoning countries.

What you need is to apply the actual biblical truth from the Bible and abide by them, this goes for all men, and regarding JWs, their community knows that, as with all Restorationism for they hold to how the church of the 1st century did things in an organized fashion, hence God's Order, professed by Paul. One Christian who I have posted about before, someone I also make a reference to in my own topics, as with others, stated that if one is a JW or not/former JW, they still have to apply the bible teachings as the early church have done it, but some are often hindered by the actions of others resulting in Christian infighting and or something similar as with a spark of disdain and hatred, and this point shows of what went down mid-2015 and what took place in your country regarding the true gospel vs. the false one. One of the reasons as to why when we speak of men of other countries and or faiths, we understand their views and not adhere to falsehood or conspiracies of which some people point to the masses as truth, when it is really untruth.

As for the Scriptures. Are you referring to Matthew 6:6 or 2 Chronicles 3:8-14? What should matter the most in the End Times is not of your belongings, but, your life. For life is more valuable than gold, and we hold to that Scripturally and Spiritually.

Now this is why meditation is vital, in doing so, you can profess a verse and or passage from memory and from the heart. For example, I am a strong believer in commandment and or Law Shema Yisrael, and as to what it means and what it points to in the Bible, as with knowing that Jesus affirms Shema, as with Paul, who also affirmed it. We have to read and meditate the word daily, just as Jesus and others have done, in all our days we do something for God our Father.

As my father had always told me, always do something for God, even if it is for an hour, even a minute, be it singing, giving praise and or reading, etc. Because in doing so, you show you take the Scriptures seriously, but shows you take the time in your day for God, for you have this day because God gave you life.

That being said, always be vigilant and enduring because you do not know when the Master comes, for it will be unexpected like a thief in the night.

14 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Yes, sorry SM. I know Anna and I are totally off topic. Especially my latest post. But but but, well no, I admit I'm in the wrong here.  

No worries. When ideas come into discussion other things are talked about. For we can discuss apples and sudden moments later we speak of oranges.

9 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

John Butler:

Very interesting take on life.

I would be interested in knowing how it all works out over time.

I believe you are being taken advantage of  ... but that is not mine to call.

Giving freely to Millionaires is a double edged sword.

My philosophy is like the Motto on U.S. Money.

"In God We Trust"

..all others pay cash.

Just another day in The Divided States of America. You'd be amazed of how many want another civil war - it is wild.

@TheWorldNewsOrg Stuff like this is everywhere sadly. Cannot be prevented 100%.

@Srecko Sostar Blood from man or beast should not be consumed and or taken into the body. This view is not only practiced by the Jehovah's Witnesses but several other Christians as well, even people of other cultures, my people for example do not consume blood of any kind, for religious and cultural reasons, to some extend, superstitious reasons.

blood is life, yes, but remember as to what hangs by means of bible principles and the foremost commandments.