Space Merchant

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And yet when he judges me you voted it up. I am not a stubborn person ..... S.M.  I tell you in truth i never even thought he was making a direct comment against you. I just agreed with the comment as a general comment. 

Although i know the answers are given to previous comments, I see the answers as more of a general comment to the whole group. 

And when i said how i felt i was being treated, i did not mean by you personally, I meant generally. . 

As for the rest of your comment here , it is too long for me to concentrate on. 

Sorry S. M.  I am not a puppet for Srecko and i come here as an individual. I do not take sides, I am my own person. 

I comment as I see fit and will continue to do so. 

No worries, knowing Srecko, he thinks he can be sneaky with his words, unless he forgot to pay his Bird ISP in bird seeds this month, since he thinks birds provide him internet to even post here.

The comment in question was due to the whole women being religious leaders to which both Srecko Sostar and Witness based their understanding on a Tradition of Men. They tried to through in JW/Watchtower stuff and that didn't even help them either for 2 direct questions posed pretty much is enough to shut them down.

It is people like that that are red flags, and I say to you study the Bible and research because one can easily slip into man's understanding without even knowing.

No worries, no one wants to be a puppet of Srecko, no one is a puppet of him for he is very cryptic in his words, especially what he said about Abraham as if he is the villain, to which he has been corrected on.

You can comment, but do so with something that is true to fact, true to the Bible, true to the Christology of others because if something is not in good light, a response will be made, this is how it is in the CSE community, of which I am from. So if someone is in error of the Bible, even about Islam, I will correct,for this is how I am, and this is how I profess.

My reason for somewhat long posts, as a funny  thing JTR thinks I right books and essays, I type waaaay to fast for me own good, and this began with a discussion I had with a Trinitarian here about Church Fathers, a second time regarding the Holy Spirit.

The guy's name is Cos and he cannot see the forest for it's trees, for one thing I have a disdain for is anyone who professes what is accursed, in this case, the Trinity. Cos showed himself to be the child of the Devil when he made claim to something that the end of the discussion, all that can be said, he never posted in that thread again nor does he address he directly, to make it seem he isn't thing to respond to what I said.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Although you sympathize with the Watchtower, you have ideas that just wouldn’t fly if you were a JW.  To be so vocal about those ideas as a dedicated JW, could cause you to be disfellowshipped.  Then, you would understand what it means to be cut off – spiritually viewed as dead – by those you thought were your brothers and sisters.  As it is, within the Watchtower organization, you are not presently even considered a “brother”.  Your views are shrugged off by the majority since you are perceived as never receiving “the truth”.

As I have told you before, I speak truth and nothing but that and I adhere to the teachings and the church. I made it clear to you before; if someone speaks of any error and conspiracy I will correct them. You confused Earthly Jerusalem for Heavenly, I correct, you referred to Apostle Paul’s on word as an opinion, I correct, you try to confuse Greek text for that of the TR 1245, I correct, and you’ve been corrected on several occasions, thus far.

If you are found to be in error of something a person or a group, I will correct you, for if one studies religion for this long, I can spoke the error and make a response. It is not about sympathizes with anyone, it is putting forth truth to the wrong of which is spoken of by those who do not even give a care to their own religious history and or the Bible and if you took the time to care about the history of the Bible I would not have stopped you before with mentioning the TR 1245 and your attempt to confuse when you have been quickly corrected.

My views have not been shrugged off. I believe God is the our Father, I believe Jesus is his Son for he is our Messiah/Christ who is like a mighty warrior who is to come and save us soon. I believe what Jesus had commanded the church to do and what he has entrusted, I believe whole heartedly of what the Law of God entails, mainly of which 2 things of which the Laws hang from. I believe that the holy spirit is of God of which helps those to progress spiritually and to learn and to teach, to spread the Great Commission and so forth. I believe in all the efforts the Apostle have done, suffering, attacked and so forth, even their students, just so we can have the Bible in our hands today. So to say no one is in agreement with my views only proves for your claim to be unfounded, just as your absurd claim you made against me regarding women, as is with your silly attempt to use a typo against me when I first discussed with Butler in the past, when you were clearly aware of how I am with spurious text. So I ask you, if you going to say something like that, best be to task to bring proof, otherwise you show yourself to be as blind as your own claims.

Furthermore, my information on here has been sought by others already, especially to the discussion we had about women and their position of the church and I believe I also mentioned to you of what their response was in all this, and I have done this before when your claim to conspiracy when even the words of a former JW counters yours. I even shown proof, or is it you have forgotten this fast already?

As for Spiritual Death, it means to be cut off from a faith community, it is a spiritual death, for when one spiritual dies, he or she alienates himself away from God, I believe this was professed to you before when you were mixing verses, time and time again to fit your own emotion and opinions. Furthermore, Spiritual Death also entails in those who does not adhere to anything spiritual whatsoever, which is the case with a lot of people, who in this day and age do not even give care to learn of and accept who God is, or his Purpose, or His Will, or perhaps his Order, of which you show yourself to be against. In the core of Christian Theology: spiritual death is separation from God. Humans are separated from God because of sin, which entered the world through the Fall of Man, and are reconciled to God through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Now for Restorationist Christians. In their primitive Christian practices, among their faith community, they see those of their equal as a brother and or sister. For Restorationist all tend to focus on the same practices and teachings as it was for the early church. They view those outside of their faith normal folk, and to the majority of some, they see that what they see as truth is to be professed and or preached to the general public, as it was in Bible times. Restorationist adhere, as I told you before to which you seem to have forgotten, they take high importance of the Great Commission, for if they do not see anyone outside of their faith as children of God also, they it defeats the purpose as to why they adhere to the Great Commission to begin with, thus making themselves ultimately in the wrong, defeating the purpose of spreading the gospel, as it was done by Jesus and those who followed. Restorationist practice excommunication as well as anyone cut off from their people have all church ties cut totally, however, such ones tend to be taken back into the church when such ones have repented for their sins. Excommunication among Restorationist is not something of the extreme such as a Herem (Censure), but the form they practice is as followed: We should excommunicate, because it’s merciful to sinners.

That being said, I know what is true, you should take a good look at yourself because last time, you considered try to use a verse to justify and profess a shift in God’s Order, thus making your truth, the one from your teacher, false and accursed.

I can tell you right now, your truth, this human/angel hybrid nonsense, isn't' truth.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

If you were to dare preach Christ as your only Head, you would be disfellowshipped, for the GB has assumed headship over the anointed and all.  If you disagreed with a teaching, knowing full well it had the ability to change within a few years and voiced it as the lie that it was shown up to be, you would be disfellowshipped.

This is because Restorationist, as with ALL Christians, regardless of denomination do not like anything to do with Interfaith, in Islam and Judaism anything Interfaith is considered forbidden. Restorationist Christians follow what the church was teaching back in ancient times, and as Paul himself professed clearly in Galatians 1:6-10

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. 10 For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Paul made himself clear on what he was speaking about regarding the accursed, a gospel that is not of the church, for instance, it is as clear as day of what was in that discussion to which I linked to Mr. Butler so he can see for himself of what I met about when the truth is thrown into one’s face. We see here, an attempt, even by you to use verses regarding Salvation in order to make proof to God’s Order changing, when the structure of both the church and family has not change, for everything is in Order as is the day God made Adam and then Eve. The problem I see here is not with one who leaves any church, this includes Jehovah’s Witnesses, the problem here is people to take up accursed teachings and profess it as truth, your Pearl, did just that, to which you posted and to which you have been corrected on, and I even asked you, in question of a very specific question to you and Srecko, and no answer was made.

Thus the truth itself puts what you profess based on your opinions and emotion to shame, and the fact you tried to even consider I somehow have a disdain for women only failed on your part and you were quick to judge based on a simple capitalization of a word, which is not too far off from trying to use a typo, which also failed on your part.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

As a JW, where would your love for pure worship come to an end?  Would you continue to proclaim your beliefs as you do here, or would you fall into the fear of men and refuse to speak up for Truth?  This is where JWs are at.  Either they buckle down and accept all of the GB’s teachings, or they express themselves as Christ did, and face the cutting off that he predicted would happen to those who love HIM and not a blasphemous organization. 

Restorationist tend to devote their whole livelihood to pure worship of God, for some too much for their own good that they live literally off the grid, living pretty much as it was in Bible times, to where they make their own clothing, cook their own foods, etc. The only thing they have to read is the Scriptures and only that, they pretty much cut themselves off from society and devote themselves to God. Restorationist Christians only fear God and that is how they are, as is their early counterparts and all they care about is going in accordance of what the Bible says, for that is embedded in their Christology. They do not adhere to any doctrines of men as what took place centuries later, with the introduction to the Trinity or Modalism, things of such they are against, hence the term they are often called Anti-Trinitarian. Restorationist believe in religious leaders, who are going in accordance with the Scriptures, for they are one with the Shepherd and the Flock, being those of Restorationism, being one themselves with the Shepherd. They are of the same fold and put into application the teachings. Moreover, they do not have a fear for being cut off, for they know what Jesus had entrusted the church, that is if you understand Matthew 16, and what the churches have done to those who speak of anything accursed and or do not adhere to the teachings and or the teachers at that time, it is no different with Restorationism today, as is all faiths.

Restorationist put into application Christ-like qualities and life the lifestyle that most people cannot do. The Apostolic Church of the Early Age is of the Christ, who is the Head of the Church, so they put into application all things of the Church.

A bit ironic that you mention the Head, for last time we discussed, you were not a fan of God’s Order.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

As much as you want to be, you are not my teacher.  That would be Christ and the Holy Spirit.  If I share the same belief as other anointed ones, we are working as the Body should, under one Lord, one faith, one baptism.   Eph 4:3-5

Never said I was your teacher or wanted to be, but when someone gives criticism and or speaks actual information of the Bible, adhere to it. For a man who gives you directions to a destination is not your permanent guardian, he is simply assisting, guiding you to the correct path.

Simply put – telling you to not trip over yourself, as you have always been doing.

 You do not need a teacher to know the difference between Earthly and Spiritual, as you have confused yourself with before. You do not need a teacher to tell you that humans are not human/angel hybrids, a teaching that is new aged. You do not need a financial adviser to understand what a trust fund is and yet an EXJW's won quote gives you that insight to the truth. You do not need a teacher to recognize God’s Order when it is there in the Bible, but you ignore it and or remain ignorant to it. You do not need a teacher to say that a man such as Paul only spoke of an opinion when Paul himself, who has God’s Spirit on him, was speaking of what God has put in motion.

That being said, I would not want to be your teacher, all I have asked you is to study your Bible and study the history of Christianity because many, many times you trip over yourself, you do not even want to take the words of ExJWs also because it defeats your own resolve.

And lastly, you not once, not twice, not three times, and yet you continue to do so. If I am able to point that out, you have a long way ahead of you to go and like many of the mainstream, you area astray. I care not if you are a JW or a Muslim or someone of Judaism, if you speak of one’s Christology and yield upon falsehood or conspiracy you will be corrected, I’ve already corrected someone on Islam. I care mostly amount those who take the time to understand the truth the bible brings, and what the early church has went through, even in the face of death and persecution only for you to even quote Bible verses, for it were not for the efforts of such ones, the bible would not be in our hands, our backpacks, our libraries, nowhere at all – for if you are trying to follow the Christ and know who His God is, at least show some respect for where the Scriptures come from in terms of history.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

apostate

əˈpɒsteɪt/

noun

 

1. 1.

   a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle.

   "after fifty years as an apostate he returned to the faith"

   synonyms:

   dissenter, heretic, nonconformist; More

adjective

 

1. 1.

   abandoning a religious or political belief or principle.

   "an apostate Roman Catholic"

Correct, but it goes even deeper than that. I will begin with a verse, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, which reads:

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Now for Apostate and or Apostasy, it also means to defection [deflect] and or to revolt. It is a falling away, a withdrawal. For even in Bible times there has been apostasy and even foretold by Jesus himself (Matthew 24:10-12) which would precede the day of the Lord (2 Thessalonians 2:2). Apostasy, not in name but in fact, meets scathing rebuke in the Epistle of Jude; the apostasy of angels (Jude 1:6). Foretold, with warnings, as sure to abound in the latter days (1 Timothy 4:1-3 2 Thessalonians 2:3 2 Peter 3:17). Causes of: persecution (Matthew 24:9, 10); false teachers (Matthew 24:11); temptation (Luke 8:13); worldliness (2 Timothy 4:4); defective knowledge of Christ (1 John 2:19); moral lapse (Hebrews 6:4-6); forsaking worship and spiritual living (Hebrews 10:25-31); unbelief (Hebrews 3:12). Biblical examples: Saul (1 Samuel 15:11); Amaziah (2 Chronicles 25:14, 27); many disciples (John 6:66); Hymeneus and Alexander (1 Timothy 1:19, 20); Demas (2 Timothy 4:10) and so forth, for it was not common for such to take place then and now.

Here is where the whole Interfaith comes in. Interfaith means relating to or between different religions or members of different religions. For we are to be highly cautious of interfaith groups, ministers, chaplains and churches, etc. For it is spoken of, by the Christain community that Satan has been infiltrating churches today with this tactic via interfaith groups that are intended to lead people away from the truth of God's Word and his teachings that originate with the church. Now as I have said Jehovah's Witnesses to their very core are Restorationist, I'll link you the information so you understand what that is here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restorationism). The reason they are up to their eyes of apostasy is due to interfaith teachings and or practices that may hinder their community, example, The Trinity, or those who see the Holy Spirit as a women, or as @Witness himself briefly mentioned which is considered interfaith is those who believe that humans and angels are one in the same, or hybrids of some sort. All such things do not fly with Restorationist, so this is but of several reasons they are this strict. Another case is disgruntled members of their faith community who will use the teachings, mixed with mainstream ideologies to fool the masses, like the claim of inspiration when Restorationist Christians to their core do not claim inspiration, especially those who are against the Trinity and are openly accepting of the New Covenant.

So as I made mention before, if you go to a JW church or is a member of that church and spread interfaith teachings, chances are you will be excommunicated and or kicked out quickly because when it comes to interfaith, regardless of faith, it spreads like wildfire and causes problems. This same example goes for those who go into churches and make claim Jesus does not like others who are not of the 12 tribes and everyone else will be killed expect the 12 tribes,  other cases, if you go to a church and say Jesus is [Asian, Black, Mexican, etc] it is falls into the category of interfaith to those who take such very, very seriously.

We had an example in United States back in 2016 of July of a whole Interfaith event called Together 2016, which was held by the Vatican's Pope to gather ALL religions, and it was a problem. This month, this same thing will take place in Texas, to which I mentioned this to JWI before on this forum. For

Interfaith supporters are also in Apostasy because such ones are in union things such as homosexuality and tolerate it. Already we see this wickedness becoming prevalent in society's churches who are open to accepting those who are for the union of interfaith supporters and the like. The primary reason why homosexuality is thriving today is because of a woeful lack of Bible-preaching in America and parts of the EU. This is why there needs to be those who, by a single person and or by group to preach the true gospel, to teach what is true and not stumble into mass confusion as those who are supporters of Interfaith thus making them Apostates.

So this is why many are up in arms, so to speak regarding Apostasy and disgruntled ones. For in order for God's Word to prevail the truth must be spoken and taught, we shouldn't give the mainstream an inch of ground to succeed otherwise God's Word will be put into a pit in the ground until someone tries to pull it out.

Apostasy is to be taken seriously, just as it is for anything accursed, anything that is false, anything that hinders truth, anything that taints spiritually, anything that is not Berean Like, anything that is absurd, etc.

For you have to walk as the Christ have done, and do everything in your power as he did for his God, you do the same. It matters not of what faith you are, it only matters when you speak the truth, which entails not making lies of scripture and or others Christology, for you have to be truthful 100% in this sense.

@James Thomas Rook Jr. Protest and Rioting will ensue very soon and it will be as heated as the hot sand on summer day in DR.

@JOHN BUTLER But hen others speak to truth you turn and do the same. That being said, this specific forum, originally was Controversial Post, come here at your own risk and speak to defend, something of that sort, I think Allen quoted it before it was changed. But still it is in application here.

Apostate is Apostate, those who do not adhere to God, those who think they know God but twist the word into something accursed. Such ones tend to go to the extreme and even become highly disgruntled, those who do not are subtle in their words and actions only to attempt to do some critical damage to a person and or group and or community.

Also this is a forum, Admins can do whatever they please in this sense, you are only a child, playing in their playground, as is the rest of us. If they say something it is by their word and they can remove you from the playground without fail if need be - as is the case with so and so who goes by many names and faces.

@JOHN BUTLER This is because when there is truth, an actual truth, people tend not to take said truth and will remain in ignorance of what is actually true. Those who accept what is truth will remain steadfast, be among the learners who are wise.

But you have to be very aware that over the centuries, the Bible has taken in some corruptions, such corruptions that is of men, for I told you before, to which someone tried to use a typo against me [Witness], that you cannot trust the KJV 100%. The truth is the inspired word is in the KJV, however, there are some spurious text, changes and forgeries, in the text itself and people, even today think of them as true.

An example would be John 7:53–8:11, this whole passage is not inspired, nor is it Bible canon, and yet the KJV has it, making the masses think it is true. Those who cannot get another Bible but the KJV, tend to avoid spurious text as a whole.

And there are many corruptions, for your early church father fought against such, but centuries later such has taken place again and in our day and age, a fight still is brewing.

7 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If Hitler had made a comment i thought was true, I would back up the comment, not the man.

And your point? I back up a majority of what I say on here, at times being overly factual. Unless you have something else to say, I am waiting.

7 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If Srecko makes a comment which I agree with I will say that i agree with that comment.. I will judge the comment not the man or woman making it. I will also not go back ten pages to look for other comments they have made. 

And yet when he judges me you voted it up. I am not a stubborn person, I am, however, very strict and pressing with information, mainly if something spoken of is untrue, in the realm of religion, I will point something out and make it clear from what is true and not true.

For when a truth is spoken, such of which is too much for one to handle, and there is a whole lot of that.

7 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I have in fact felt this  "stubborn and persistent"  attitude against me on here, but I'm not moved by it. 

Stubbornness and persistence, no. Strict yes, I even told you this the first time I ever made comment to you and to others. If I tell you a truth, an actual truth, you would say something else only to be met with truth, and if anyone has been aware, I always make a response as to where my name is mentioned and if I see something that is not correct, I will make a response.

If Srecko says that God has no problem with men/women physically changing their reproductive system to the opposite sex, of course I will make a response to it - and yes, he did say this before, it caught my eye and I did make the response.

If you believe that someone who speaks truth is stubborn, maybe it would be best to take the time and read Isaiah 28 and see how the leader of Judah responded to Prophet Isaiah, who was not stubborn at all, but very strict on what he says although he kept repeating himself.

You should be moved by what is true and not that of man's understanding, of which the last 2 times, when the truth was sent your way, you seem a bit flustered by it.

As for the strictness, I can get irritated, but this is only towards Trinitarians and anyone who speaks ill of the holy spirit or those who brush over biblical principles that tie in with God's Laws and commandments.

7 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Space Merchant says : "But yes, every time a biblical fact is thrown into their face, they are quick to bring up JWs, when I am talking solely about the Church Structure..." 

This is in fact true, here is the proof of where I posted the Bibical Facts to such ones who attempt to bring up JW every time when the truth of God's Order is presented in their faces, have a look, Mr. Butler:

There are some typos but the response was clear to Srecko, when it comes to facts: Like I told you before, the Jehovah's Witnesses or the Watchtower cannot save you here, and you only proven yourself to be incorrect, granted that anyone even to Theologians know the history of Restorationist.

7 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Um, go to the very top of the page. Read what this site is all about . JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES PUBLIC CLUB.  Then look at the topic heading Jehovah's witnesses ..... Armageddon. What makes THEM  think it will still happen ? It is about the Jehovah's witnesses, not about the Church structure or the early church. 

I know what the topic is about for if it irks you that much you didn't take to task to stop Mr. Srecko now did you? It didn't stop you from going about speaking of inspiration and the other things when, as you put it, the topic is about Armageddon I made my response regarding a specific discussion on this forum, granted what I said was to respond to @Anna to briefly explain the discussion, not to you, of which actually took place.

If it is Armageddon response you seek, it is an Armageddon response you shall have.

Armageddon, spoken of as God's day, his war against the wicked, read in Revelations 16:14, 16 and 19:11-21. It is also in reference to  /meaning Tel [Mount] Megiddo. It is the war of the great day of God, El Shaddai in which the kings and leaders on earth, mainly those who put God's people to task in the worse ways will be getting their dues paid for in full.

As for when it will happen, no one knows for sure, but the Bible tells us it is near and we are to keep on maintain our faith, to be vigilant and so forth, remain steadfast in what is true. We also can't make a claim of it going to happen this year or that year, etc, examples like the whole debacle in 2017 or 2012 where the literal claim of the world will end has been said, proclaimed, movies made, put into video games, etc, even going as far as to get the whole Planet X troop riled up, who they themselves think the earth as a whole would be replaced with another earth, or those who use the Eclipse as an excuse that the world would end. No one knows the day or the hour, but only God knows, the angels, nope, Jesus, nada, no one but Hashem, no one but Jesus' God, my God, your God, the God of each and every one of us here on this forum.

There is no middle ground, you either for life or for death. And the implications and context is as clear as the sky in this sense.

I see the early church as the bread of Christianity, the early Church, they too believed in God's Day and Judgement that will be unleashed unto the wicked for such was spoken on in the Scriptures that they themselves had.

That being said, none of us knows the day or hour, playing the guessing game is of no help either. As for you have mentioned about 1975, that has been debunked for sometime now and the fact that a great deal went about to take down a very credible source on this matter was evident, it only shows who was in the right here, for no JW would be foolish to claim that Armageddon would happen in 1975, if that was the case it would have defeated the purpose of ceasing the gospel and or Great Commission, hence why I took information from the now long gone source and posted it here as legitimate proof.

As for the other thing you mentioned before, Restorationist, as a organized group or a sole individual living in the outskirts of Yemen, none of them never, and ill ever claim to be inspired, it is not in the fabric of their Christology, nor in those who make the attempt to put into application of the early church, thus making any false claim immediately shot down when evidence is in use. If you have people, like Atheists who knows this stuff too, then surely you have a problem trying to make a claim of something that is unfounded, thus making the resolve invalid.

21 minutes ago, Jack Ryan said:

The tag "mentally diseased" brought me to your post in the similar content section.

So... I guess the answer is YES.

 

And this post has already been concluded, Ryan. The focus was of someone who is literally in a disabled state.

@Jack Ryan Well if someone says God has given them the power to go and commit injury to, I don't know, Muslims, they are mentally broken in some form. It isn't different from what Muslims call Trinitarians are Evil ridden, God hating Christians, or broken minded - granted they do not like people saying that God is somehow Triune.

46 minutes ago, Witness said:

“They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. ³ And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. ⁴ But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them.”  John 16:2-4

“put you out of the synogogues”  - aposynagōgos - excluded from sacred assemblies of Israelites, excommunicated.

Ironically, this verse point to several: Matthew 24:9, Acts 8:1 and Acts 12:1, 2 and finally, Acts 26:11. Now John 16:1 regarding that Strong's in a simple term is to be expelled from the congregation; away from the synagogue, expelled from the synagogue, excommunicated.

With what was going down during that time it should serve to us as an example, to reflect, that all of us must do well to reflect on the life course those who had to deal with us back then and now and onward. We are put to task to imitate their example to remain strong and able under all forms of trial and to not allow any form of opposition or persecution, small or great, cause us to abandon our True God who is our Father and his Son and all that is in connection to them, even the church and we continue to serve, to trust and to obey so all will go well with us.

55 minutes ago, Witness said:

How can an organization offer life?  Is the Watchtower run by a different means than any other organizations in the world?  It uses your money, time, and dedication to keep it afloat.  Matt 6:24 

As is the early church, that does the same and uses money to remain.

56 minutes ago, Witness said:

It is part of this world.  How foolish to think we can use the very resources the world offers and then label it a theocracy ruled by God. 

So using money to enable the spreading of the Good News Gospel is somehow an bad thing to do? I answered this before. AS long as the money is in use and use wisely in terms of God's service, there is no problem with that, this also goes for Christians who are able to do free-will offerings and do not have to and or require to apply the law of Levites.

God is aware there is a use of currency, after all, the Law of the Levities was a primitive form of currency and whole lot of bartering, an the fact that there was use of currency in the Temple and Synagogues during the days of Jesus, with a total of 12-13 treasure boxes and a large one to put everything in at the end of the day, guess what that money is used for primarily? To prove food and resources to the poor, and to prove for those who go out and speak of the gospel, and so forth.

Like I told someone else before on here. If such a resource is that bad, what is it that is allowing you to even post a comment here, thus use the internet as a whole? We shouldn't be hypocritical about it, for there is good people who uses resources with good intent, and there is bad people also, who use the same resources for bad things.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

There is only one gate, one door -  Christ Jesus.  John 10  You hear about him on occasion, but  another door - “Jehovah’s organization” -  and another Master, the “slave”, takes the spotlight. 

And yet in the Greek New Testament those, under Christ had doors to which people enter to learn what is true, again, the same thing is being applied today by Christians. No one is taking the spotlight here, for if you understood the Christ, he spoke of those who shepherd his flock, if the churches are taking the spotlight that you completely leaped over several parts of the New Testament. Examples, the Church of Corinth, they, after coming to their senses, had the help of Paul to fix themselves up and they serve God and take in the command of the Christ, they are not some separate Master, they are, putting into application what they, as Christians professed, for they are technically in union in serving God and the teachings is in fact that door, which leads to God and his Christ.

Read for context, read the references, also John 10:16 and references was a dead giveaway too.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Not everyone who is disfellowshipped runs off to commit sin, free to do whatever they want.  Anointed and those not anointed, desire to serve the one true Master, Christ, and the Father.  Their obedience to them is direct.  They don’t need a wicked slave to authorize every detail of their life, from clothing to the form of praise they must offer to “Jehovah”.  Rev 13:1,4,11,14-17  I doubt JWs can imagine being guided by Holy Spirit first-hand when their governing body admits it is not.

The thing here is it is not sin that one must worry about, it is of interfaith things and or things of accursed teachings, some of which based off of opinions and emotions and shifting what the Bible says to fit some other agenda.

I can give a clear example from our last discussion whereas your views is of both emotion and opinions, granted you are not a JW, and most likely have not sinned, but you coy yourself with what is actually accursed and tried to use several verses and passages in the Bible to justify something that is NOT of the church.

Even during the days of the early church, the members followed the pastors who are in religious leadership and or office because the direction they give is of the scriptures and the teachings of the church is equal to that or an attempt, of which can be seen today with a small pocket of Christians. For Paul was a man, an Apostle, and yet you have people heeding his words, for his words was not based off of opinion ,as you suggested before, for Paul was a man who had God's Spirit on him and he speaks what is true of the Scriptures and thus the Church, and her people, put this into application, even taking said information from this man, Paul to up-build themselves and stop the errors they are committing, stepping away from what is accursed.

So if the Christ entrusted such things such as Expelling aka excommunication, you do not abandon a command of such and or water it down or change it. It is as clear as it is in the passage and should not be overwrite by those who shed emotion/feelings that result to changing what such actually is.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

There is one “organization” that Jesus and God have authorized and it has no part in the riches of the world.  John 2:19,21; 1 Pet 2:4-10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Heb 12:18-24; Isa 55:1; Rev 22:17

Anyone who follow the church and apply the teachings, striving to be like the church who was for all things of God's Word are pretty much an organized bunch of people, for the Jews and Gentiles were shattered and preached the Messianic Age and the good news gospel and they were organized, but all over the place.

There are many organizations out there, but only a small few strives to do what the early Church has done.

Also, as I always tell you..... Check your verses.....

The rest of the items you mention is pretty much what you have been corrected on before and the obvious misuse of verses to fit your own emotion and opinions.

That being said, your own teacher falls into the category, I do not care if had some form of affiliation with Jehovah's Witnesses, but her being very accepting things that is not of the church, and she's subtle with it shows that she has not did anything afterwards to understand the roots of Christendom in of itself. So I leave you with Galatians 1:1-11.

I'll also leave you with this link so you can better understand what the Apostolic Church is all about and the fact that people are actually attempting to follow this exact church compared to mainstream and accursed ones such as new agers and the like.

https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/encyclopedia-of-the-bible/Apostolic-Age

As for the word organization, remember what I had explained to you about God's Order of which your teacher sees it as something entirely different.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Watchtower logic is like this:

What we told and what we teach is true. Now we just have to wait for new information's that will prove opposite or different. Meanwhile, all who would disagree with us must go, in this way or another.

:)))) haha .. for my opposers

Apparently you didn't get the lesson on Apostle Paul, of which was explained to you in heavy, heavy detail. But I ill leave it at that. Remember, Paul spoke to buildup his brothers and sisters and we see the result in his second Epistle, and in his Epistle, he showed what the church did to make the change. Those who didn't, it is clear of what happened with them when Paul was around and the Binding and Loosening has taken place in the church. 

What Paul did, who was indeed of the Apostolic Age, is no different from what is being done today.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Ecclesiastes 12 v 12.  

"As for anything besides these, my son, be warned: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh".

So , it seems in God's eyes we may only need His written word the Bible. 

If you understood me you would know that I seek truth as to how I should serve God. 

Yes I do get a bit 'upset' at times, but I'm human, a sinner like everyone. 

I could come back to other points but it would only be going round in circles. 

The verse as followed:

• Ecclesiastes 12:12 - My son, beware of anything beyond these. Of making many books there is no end, and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

This verse is clear, in context, it warns us against the books that are a product of reasoning men and  is in direct conflict with the wisdom of God, for such books keep people away from God and preventing people from keeping of God's commandments.

On the other side of the spectrum, we have knowledge that is obtained which enables us to carry out of God’s commands, hence is weariness of the flesh. The very reason this verse harmoniously connects to another verse in Ecclesiastes, 1:18, which reads:

For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.

With this verse in mind, we can also draw a conclusion to the context from King Solomon. For he was not the type to frown down on reading and taking in knowledge, but rather to be selective in some sense, knowing of what is good and bad, what to take in, so to speak. For we should be very careful in reading things that is true and or untrue, mainly things that harbor influence from things of this world, in in this matter, Traditions of Men.

@James Thomas Rook Jr. Interesting, did you have the video this whole time or manage to download it somehow before it got taken down by the Copyright troop?

For if something is missing and or gone private, I know it cannot be downloaded.

I do not know if you know this website, but Music Clips now referred to as mp3 converter, can turn YouTube videos into mp3s or mp4 and or other formats. An interesting tool, nonetheless.

15 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

When Muslims blow themselves up in terroristic activities, they believe that they will go to Paradise (Heaven?) and get 72 Virgins.

If they convert to Catholicism, and become priests, they can get that NOW!

It would seem someone has a lot to learn about Islam, perhaps I should refer you to Mansur, or maybe Hashim, or maybe Adnan Rashid.... Or the Ultimate weapon known as Hamza Myatt, this one will invite you for Dawah and not fish and chips.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

A typical copy/saved screen straight off the website of Jehovah’s Witnesses to prove the whole suit and tie thing? I can tell you this, during your absence in July, I have been to Africa and I will educate you on the way people dress there and so forth.

You can literally go to the website and wait a few seconds (or click the arrow), this same image appears on their little slideshow. It should occur to you that JWs (well you use to be one so how did that one slip through the cracks) are Evangelist, preachers, this guy clearly traveled to the farmland village and does not live there.

@TrueTomHarley He pulled the image directly from the jw.org site's slideshow.... Anyone who pulls something from a main page that fast and easily is a classic move, if I may add.

Africans in the city, which is not a village or shanty town as I said, there are those who take up items sent to Africa referred to as the Mitumba, the term in Swahili which literally meaning bundles, and this is usually referred  to plastic-wrapped packages containing used clothing donated by people in wealthy countries, moreover, the term is also applied to the clothing that arrives in these bundles, I’ll even post you an image below so you can understand and see for yourself, such as yourself who has most likely never been to Africa.

Like I said, you do not see such things such as suits and tie wearing persons in villages and shanty towns, for Mitumba is usually received in cities, for example, Tanzanian city of Dar es Salaam and several other cities, that are obviously not shanty towns or villages, as I have said already – unless, Mr. Butler, you have something more to share of suits and ties being in high use in villages and shanty towns, I am all ears and eyes. In addition, Mitumba are normally used and or seen worn by people in interior parts of Africa, not villages, not shanty towns.

Most of the Mitumba originates in developed countries, like the United States, often comes from non-profit organizations, such as The Salvation Army and or anything of the like, granted Mitumba is often in high quantities when received by these non-profits.

As for my experience, no one in farmlands and or such villages wear suit an ties, granted in the type of work they endure on a daily basis and or daily activities. Those who do live within the city and often travels through villages and or these small areas in parts of Africa, an example would be when I was in Kampala, there is people having fashionable things, however when you go to Nansana, you see very, very little, and nowhere in that area people is wearing a suit and tie whenever they have ceremonies and the like there, they use their traditional African attire – no one wore a suit and tie, as for me, I was wearing an African Mud-Cloth Poncho, it is not a suit an tie attire at all.

If you have no idea what that is, IÂ’ll show you an image:

If you must know, I wore this when traveling and to the wedding I went to while I was there, when I ran into people who wanted to know what the Bible is, I was wearing a casual, but loose dress shirt and black pants, with sandals.

So I’ll ask you since I won’t get an answer from Ryan, I want you to show me exactly people in shanty towns and or villages, you can throw in the farmlands and rural places outside of the city as to where someone in said country is sporting a suit and tie, let’s throw in bowties also for fun. Otherwise the response still stands: As last time I checked, also, you do not see people wear suit and ties in a shanty town or rural village, the major will most likely stick to modest clothing in their village.

But what can be said is passerbys usually come in from the city, by foot, by bike and or vehicle ride, such ones do not live in these small rural villages and or farmlands.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

OK not a suit but it is 'White man's clothing' 'Western culture' or what ever you want to name it. 

Then that should have been spoken of from the very beginning, your glass of water tipped over on to yourself, Butler.

Tell me something I don't know. Because of non-profit organizations within western societies that sell used clothes to for-profit in Africa, Mitumba is refereed to as White Man's clothes, there is a slang term for it, but it is not a good one, moreover, it is very common in parts of Africa, but it is solely in prominent use in the cities. 

As for suits, it goes way far back then that, for suits originated with the British, if my memory serves me correctly.

I also suggest paying the Mother Land a visit. Not only I enjoyed myself but I learned more about my people's roots. For you, I know it would be a history lesson and perhaps something to tell the family and friends.

On 9/30/2018 at 8:06 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Elizabeth Warren, "Pocahontas?" is so divorced from reality, I have to turn away in embarrassment for her.

The actual story of Pocahontas is brutal and it isn't even her name. I use to have a Black Native American co-worker who goes off on a rant every 45 minutes regarding discrimination and racism, among all things, he goes on a tsunami sized rant regarding any negativity regarding Native Americans, such as the actual source of a Native women who became a sex slave and taken from her people only to die of a disease of what her captor's people suffered from.

Other than that, not a political person, but I have to say, not a fan of Ms. Warren, she may be a good person, but some things are....questionable.

As for the whole Ford and Kavanaugh, there are some facts that isn't being spoken of, some of which puts Ford in a position of being untruthful, although I do not like Kavanaugh, I feel as though, with what I had read up on, something is indeed not fitting well on the puzzle board.

That being said, a lot of political theater, and Republicans vs. Democrats in this sense, and we have the Far Light and the Far Right.

 

MEANWHILE IN OTHER NEWS....... We have this guy:

 

 

But yeah the whole Ford/Kavanaugh, there are some facts and other information that raises question. And depending on who side one picks it will shift a whole lot of things, for us neutrals in the matter, we are going to get caught in the middle like an accidental bar fight.

6 hours ago, The Librarian said:

Another video lost... ugh....

Does anyone have a link to the original? I don't even remember the details of the video

The video must've vanish due to the Copyright Heroes and Internet, basement dwelling Trolls who have nothing better to do.

The only chance you got is other sites that are somehow linked to Youtube that has the video by name even though the video is unreachable. Your other option would be to search https://d.tube/ however it is by chance.

Know this, if it is said and or done and posted on the internet it is there and isn't 100% gone, just have to look elsewhere.

As for original, I do not have a source, perhaps via keywords you can look it up, but it will not be easy.

20 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The difference between Christendom, and Muslims, if you can afford it ... is that in New York,  Christendom's parents can buy tailored bullet proof vests fro their children, and Muslims, for their kids, can buy bomb vests.

What an 8 year old Muslim Girl would do in Heaven with 72 virgins, I cannot comprehend.

The actual difference between Islam and Christendom is that Christians believe Jesus suffered and died, while Muslims do not believe Jesus died, but an impostor was placed on the stauros, and Jesus escaped.

Muslims also believe that Jesus will come back, and that he will make everyone Muslims, while Christians believe Jesus will return to set things straight, rid of wickedness.

Muslims believe in eternal paradise also, and they also believe in hellfire, while Christians, well it is different because of many denominations, but the truth of the matter is the earth will be the paradise and there is no hellfire torment, for anyone who reads knows exactly as to why God hates fire torment.

Not all Muslims are of terror, this is the idea that is pressed on to the people by those who are Islamophobic, for their counterparts who are bad is no different from the Christian's Crusaders, the Ku Klux Klan, and or Christian Militants, for a several weeks ago, Christian Militant leader got busted for making child soldiers.

As someone who dwells in a whole lot of, Dawah, what can be said it is very easy to correct you on the Qu'ran and the Islamic faith.

At the very CORE of both sides, both Christians and Muslims believe there is one God who is True and this One God is the Father, no Jesus, or the Holy Spirit, only YHWH, the one you call Yahweh/Jehovah, to them it is Yahuh, or most commonly known, Allah.

Christian means someone who believes and or has their faith based on God's Word and believe in the Christ.

Muslim means someone who believes in and puts their faith in God and follow his Word, accordingly.

21 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I hate that ..... don't you?

...and when they use the vise-grip pliers to twist off your kneecaps ..... I hate THAT .... don't you?

Like a sign I saw on the wall of  a parachute loft in Tallequah, Oklahoma, where on long tables people were packing their parachutes: "One should not smoke ... unless one is on fire!"

 

well that too, but hat I was getting at was when one is trippin' he begins think he is the hero of his own story

and then....

 

The moral of the story is, do not do drugs and do not smoke marijuana, otherwise your mind will be as scrambled as eggs in a pan.

8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

JW Dress Rules is the topic, not, being in a concentration camp. 

If according to you we must adhere to the topic, then why in God's name would you mention this here in this same thread about dress code?

  On 10/1/2018 at 12:30 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

'homosexuality' and 'masterbation with a pillow'.

So if you have to stop someone, in this case, @TrueTomHarley, check thyself before ye wreck'th thyself because you hit that same road yourself in this sense, in the same topic. The only reason I made response was due to what is said, hence the mention of pillows, take it up with the anti-masturbation Christian community, because I told you before, what you said about masturbation, they didn't take kindly to it, I'd post the comments regarding that, but this is of dress code and such.

That being said, back on task here, every culture and or group of people have their own clothing that makes up of where they are from. Regardless, they still hit the modest dress code, as it is not too far off from that in the US and or elsewhere, for even for them, something that is immodest, they will take issue with it.

As last time I checked, also, you do not see people wear suit and ties in a shanty town or rural village, the major will most likely stick to modest clothing in their village.

Also I haven't see anywhere of a response from Ryan regarding Nationalistic Pride. This, of which was claimed - has yet to be seen.

19 hours ago, Anna said:

Jesus and Jehovah communicate trough the Bible

Very true. Minus the bacon (if you catch that reference regarding translators) Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and some few to be chewed and digested.

Also I do not know if you know this but, there are people who think if they eat the pages of the Bible, they somehow gain insight. I think a similar situation some guy ate an entire bible as his last meal.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And your point is ?

Please don't just slap scriptures all over the screen like 'Gone Away' does. 

It means nothing. It proves nothing. It is not helpful in any way. 

I'm sure even the Pope could quote scripture. 

Scriptures proves everything, it comes down to who is putting the truth of what is spoken of in a verse and or passage in total truth and in harmony with the text, vs. those who do not and base what the verse and or passage says to equal to that of emotion, feelings and or some other mere opinion. The very reason why I was very critical of you before regarding Peter because when you get down to the core of the context, the truth is there.

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

OH yes so clear. So clear, that there are hundreds if not thousands of so called Christian denominations earthwide.

If it was clear, why state the obvious? Also it is in the thousands. and among the thousands there is only a few who actual recognize the early church, they strive to be like it, they attempt it, they fail at it and or ignore it. Some denominations no longer exist for they have ceased and or died out, I believe I posted a list somewhere before, but around that time I was talking about calamity, such as mass earthquakes and the like.

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The JW's being one of the smallest. 

Restorationist Christain are pretty much a small, but also big, minority, however this group, as an organized religion, is not little or is it big. They are sitting at, just putting JWs all on the same boat, about 8.5 million, they had several thousand increase in a small span of time and might hit anywhere between 8.6-9 million. I also like to say it is the JWs only, if you include those who are with them as in guests, students and so forth, it is in the 20 million range, possibly higher. I would say the reason for this is because mainstream Christendom is declining so you have people going into other denominations in the minorities, on the other side of the spectrum, you have Islam, which is, possibly bigger and also growing, and may surpass the mainstream, granted it is said, spoken of mid 2015 as it being a main contender to mainstream Christianity.

Restorationist Christians who are not tied to any denomination, it is hard to tell for these folk because they, literally live off-grid, examples who be this one guy I posted a video about here who had been off the grid for so long he was absent for 8 years, rumored to have been dead and or killed, even had be concerned, but he resurfaced again, there are a few thousands like him, but combining all Restorationnist as a whole, both individuals and groups, I cannot say.

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

As for your comment "It comes down to who is applying what is true and who is not, and only a few do what is true while others do not".

So, you can name who is doing what is true can you ? You can say what is truth and what is not can you ?  

I have been very vocal on here of who is actually following the truth of the early church.

The Apostolic Christians had everything down to the letter, or in this case, the Didache. The Church and her people, the church and her teachings that is being professed, of which one must follow.

To quote myself:

Quote

Now what is this preaching they received as well as their belief? “SHE” the church, believes in One God, The Father Almighty. “She” believes in One Christ Jesus, The Son of God and The Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the administrations of God.....

Lastly, take a good look at this [Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father]. As to my previous comment in Irenaeus’ other book, Proof of the Apostolic Preaching, anyone can figure this out so there is no further need to go into detail, in addition, as I said before, you didn’t read the other portions of the same paragraph, let alone took the time to read the book, at least some of it (even though I hyperlinked in one of my comments aside from a basic Irenaeus’ quote).

I am aware there are those who attempt to be and or already are. And it has been known that Restorationist are the type of Christians to not adhere and or align themselves with mainstream Christianity, thus making them entirely different, but at their core they only care about following the teachings of the early Apostolic Church and putting that into application even in this day and age and onward, for Restorationist Christians are learners as they go and progress.

I would post the Didahe, but that is a full posting on it's own, I will just make reference to it: The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (60 - 120 A.D.)

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

From an historic standpoint it might be easier, but for knowing who God is using to give the true direction now, can you tell me ?

One would have to simply go back to the Early Church and Christians, for they knew God, who he was and his thinking, thus having the ten commandments come in form of principles and the Sh'ma.

God gives us direction and truth by means of his word and he expects us to put that into application, this also goes for the commands of his Son, Christ Jesus, and what His Son wants us, Christians, to do, for we are of that same house with others who are aware of which Covenant they are under.

By means of his word, God has also people, imperfect ones, who profess what is true and abide by what is true, although such ones can make mistakes, as is with past followers of God, even of Christ, such ones still do what is best, what is necessary to get word out of the gospel, the good news, the Messianic Age, what is to come, what is to expect.

The problem here is that there are others, false ones, who twist the information into something that it is not. One of the many things I have a total disdain for is the Trinity, the teaching that God is his own Son, or anything that is of an accursed doctrine, mockery of the holy spirit and so forth, and lastly, those who are clearly defending spurious text which was added into the Bible, something of which I am 100%+1,000% vocal about, even to the point on several instances I stumble on myself out going overboard when professing facts.

That being said, as Christians we need to know the Bible and the history of the scriptures, we need to know the history of the early church and Christians, otherwise we would be in a position that reveals utter ignorance and or problematic issues that others will correct, sometimes with sheer criticism, an example would be regarding the other post about a certain fishermen.

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Can you say this 'sect' or that 'denomination' are telling complete truth ?  Can you know for sure who has God's blessing ?

Mr. Bulter, you can start by studying, researching, and meditating on the early church. Before you do so, I suggest reading through Matthew 16 carefully, then go about the research of the Apostolic Age, for you will find out things that the mainstream does not tell you about the church, examples like how most early Christians were technically Subornationist, or the fact that Trinitarians and Modalist joined forced to stamp out other beliefs when they themselves know they are in the wrong. Things of that nature.

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If you can truthfully answer all of this then God must be blessing you far more that he blesses many. 

God has given me the ability to learn, as is with all men. I take learning things with sheer seriousness. I can speak of any denomination because I studied them, I even studied Judaism and Islam, even though I am a Unitarian Christian myself, who, among the few, who believes in pre-existence. Like I told you before, we are all servants, slaves, we are not above anyone, nor are we below, weak or superior, and so forth.

I can be very critical at times, even strict, but the truth will be spoken. I do not take lightly to false and or erroneous Christologies in order to paint someone in a bad light, the very reason why if something is of conspiracy and or other, I speak up, and at times, people cannot handle the truth to the point they run for the hills and cry for admin to lock down a thread.

All of us can learn, but those who remain ignorant to learning only shows themselves to be the villain, in this sense. There is also a time for common ground whereas despite the views there are things that are agreeable to both sides, example would be, I can agree and discussion with someone who is a Muslim about Sura-112 in the Qu'ran, which to us in the Bible is Deuteronomy 6:4 regarding the Sh'ma. Things like that, and I say this because I speak with one too many Muslims elsewhere,and among them several Christians who are for and against the Trinity are present, some from the Soco crew are not pleasant people, even some JWs showed up, one I had challenged named Kathgar because an Agnostic had something interesting to say that led me on a goose chase.

18 hours ago, Anna said:

Really? What scripture is that in?

In another thread @Srecko Sostar made the claim that a woman named Chloe lead the Church of Corinth, basing his own view on a single verse (1 Corinthians 1:11) using this as legitimate proof that somehow Chloe lead the Church. I even told him to prove it, but he as well as Witness failed when the Biblical Facts were placed in front of them, Witness began the thread and yielded upon his own feelings and opinions, even going as far as to say that someone of has the holy spirit on them was only speaking of an opinion when in reality Paul was referring to God's Order by means of Creation, our first human parents.

The funny thing is how the both of them attempt to defend a Tradition of Men regarding women leadership in a church, one of them even stated, out of disdain of the truth, that I am somehow anti-women for making the W in women lowercase, when I type too fast for my own good to even realize that, and I asked him, prove I am against women, of which he cannot prove, nor can Srecko.

What they fail to see is women as roles in the church as well as men, however, according to God's Order, there are roles that are for men that women cannot do, however both men and women help the church out, furthermore, God's Order also reflects the family structure, such as the husband, the wife, the child, hence the family itself and so forth.

But yes, every time a biblical fact is thrown into their face, they are quick to bring up JWs, when I am talking solely about the Church Structure and how things were before people started to change up things to equal that of Traditions of Men. Next thing you know, Srecko and Witness will probably defend Furries taking religious office in a church.

That being said, Srecko has a habit of deleting things, so I make sure to quote him and make a response so his own word does not vanish, as it has last time. This thread was created by Witness regarding women.

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Thanks to heaven, people  have no  power to read other people mind and motives.  

But, thanks to heaven too, other people have power to be suspicious about other people words. Also to be stubborn and persistent in that. 

:))))

I say this because of your antics before and the very fact people can point your own words as flawed and or cryptic, for if you truly had respect for people, it would show, rather thank pressing on so an so, perhaps if I link something, you'd be quick to delete it.

Interesting that Mr.Butler agrees when he has not seen what many of us have seen.

Invite you to prove stubbornness, so far you haven't prove your own words before, thus being corrected with something is seen as unfounded, not even close to factual information - remember Chloe?

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

... dear Anna, if you open NWT Bible on page 1578 and 1579 (in Croatian edition 2006) authors of translation quoted how John (apostle) wrote 1,2 and 3 John in a year cca 98.

So, book of Revelation is the book that placed on last position of Bible, but last written was those 3 letters, not Revelation, according to WT.

Actually you are missing the point. The original source tells you The Revelation of John and or Apocalypse. It is the last book of the Bible as is in most translations, though not the last written. Another name for it is the Apocalypse of John the Apostle [Apocalypse de Jean l'apôtre].

As for this, Croatian Edition 2006, can you be more specific, granted the language is possibly Croatian - hrvatski? Also regardless of whatever language, this is in fact true with what they say here: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003717

And what we see in Bible History: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation (Go to Canonical History)

Fact: Revelation was the last book accepted into the Christian biblical canon, and to the present day some churches that derive from the Church of the East reject it.

So to say according to the Watchtower only proves your ignorance, when outside of the realm of Watchtower, this same information is professed, so I ask you, are you really looking into the Scriptures or simply, trying to be respectful by not telling the truth?

Surely, Srecko, you can do better than that, but to fool people isn't your strong suit. I've also provided another source for you, so you can correct yourself, granted Mr. Butler agrees with you, he himself can learn more about his Bible. Consider this an education process for the both of you.

The next question is... Do you really not know that according to the Book of Revelations, its author was on the island of Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus, when he was honored with the vision contained in Revelation?

Everyone knows the last 3 were the Epistles, but the last Book of the Bible is what is being spoken of here, regardless of source or translation, everyone knows this and in that last Book, John was inspired to have seen these visions on the island, thus Revelations.

I mean, Revelations 1:9 was a dead giveaway, I mean, sheesh man:

I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

Therefore, I invited, do yourself a favor, and learn more about Apostle John, read it even everything pertaining to this Apostle.

Here is another fact, a brief one: John is the only one who had written the rare conversation Jesus had with a leader of the Jews by the name of Nicodemus. Nicodemus himself played a role in Jesus' burial.