Space Merchant

I'm going by religious statistic as I had before because you claim the latter was committing slander in their numbers. There is also many sources that even state the same thing, so those numbers are indeed true. If you lack spiritual wisdom, how are you so sure? Because last I was here before the whole Assange situation, you said you are seeking truth, at least be reasonable and honest.
Moreover, the word "adherents" was coined by said source:
The group reports a worldwide membership of approximately 8.58 million adherents involved in evangelism and an annual Memorial attendance of over 20 million.
I recall telling you in your response that the numbers are only going up whereas you said it was going down, which was false.
There you go slandering again. Can you prove that the numbers were made up if one and several other sources says otherwise? The pews website was not made by children, nor was Wikipedia, nor was other Christian statistics websites.
I am not talking about JWs bringing up the numbers, I am, and my sources re of those who actually count statistics in adherents/members numbers of all Christian denominations, if fact, all rebellious denominations.
Also it is called Demographics
Definition - statistical data relating to the population and particular groups within it.
So where does that leave the pews and other sources when coming up with the numbers of religious demographics of said faith? They do the same thing with us Unitarians, although they bunch us all together, they also segregate the denominations and show the numbers.
How is this alien to you, Butler?
The irrelevancy is quite jarring to the eyes.Especially when the evidence is before us in this sense. Those who do the demographics, allow me to show you of what you ignored in the past, at least back then, even JTR gets it.
Here is an example:
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/05/christians-remain-worlds-largest-religious-group-but-they-are-declining-in-europe/
Pretty sure the website(s) were not founded by 3 year olds, show some respect.... Also Ward Cunningham is 69, born in 1949, he isn't 3 either...
https://www.pewresearch.org/about/
It is not about enticement. You made a claim and I'll quote you: "Wow are they lowering the standards as they are rapidly losing members ? "
This is slander because people who do the statistics says otherwise, therefore, you committed slander to your very teeth.
Numbers do mean something because numbers brings forth truth to claim, as is in this example regarding erroneous claims on your part. I assume that taking in wisdom has been "thrown out the window" in this sense concerning you.
Unwell? I concur, this is coming from the man who confuse actions of men with clothing yet wears said clothing of what he made claims against, thus  spinning the wheel of hypocrisy.
Check thyself and your own comments because it is not by means of your unwellness that shows here, but your ignorance.
That being said, when more important matters I was in discussion of regarding critical issues and religious attacks and a list of other things, here we see you still haven't changed one bit.
I linked to you before the pews website, I suggest giving it a look this time.
I'll say it again to you, Butler - Open your eyes because you continue to keep them shut.

The thing is some people afraid of statistics. This is the case I make with those of mainstream Christendom, for they are afraid of what the demographics show concerning them. They would also go as far as to pain and erroneous picture on Christian minorities.
That being said, if one person says someone's adherents is on a rapid decline and the other says it has increased, with prove to make it up, who is truly in slander? Clearly, someone who swims about in the sea of his or her own hypocrisy.
Other than that, these people are everywhere, all of them of different cultures, hence the different attire (modest). I do not see how blind people get if they cannot see this for themselves.

.... I was once called down from the platform, because I had a blue shirt, instead of a white shirt.
It looks like this Brother solved that problem.

Satan the Devil, God's Adversary, and the resister, the slander, he will be made no more when the time comes, and all who continue to side with him. God will make sure no enemy roam about, be it man or spirit, for all such will be made no more, wiped away from existence by means of destruction prepared for them.

Forum Police? Care to explain? Kid and everyone else speaks their peace. As far as all things concerning you about 95% of the time, you tend to interject something into a topic that tends to be unrelated. Also you tend to be the type of person that has no problem pushing the buttons of others, but when such is done either directly or indirectly to you, you show a reaction, in some cases, a bit whiny, in this sense. This is the same case you regarding judgement, whereas you make the claim of others, but when you do it, it is ok, therefore, people can and will call you out for it. Elsewhere, there are people, unrelated to this thread as a whole, that is out for your head, reasons why I refrain from what they had said about you because those Christians do not like to be mocked and or insulted, in which you alluded to in one of your responses before. All I can say is that some had color languages for such ones like you who think they cannot be helped.
 
That being said, to even paraphrase what you said before, forums and or social spaces is a place where everyone gets involved, this also includes Facebook.

That was my point, too. Further information from the Snopes article explains it this way:
One popular posting on Facebook was captioned, “This is a street in Venezuela. That’s money in the gutter. It’s worthless. Welcome to socialism.”:  . . .
Although hyperinflation has indeed caused the bolivar to become all but worthless, the caption on this viral photograph is a bit misleading. The money shown lying in the gutter in this picture is Venezuela’s old currency, the Bolívar Fuerte, which was replaced by a new form of currency, the Bolivar Soberano, in August 2018. When the Bolivar Soberano was introduced, Bolívar Fuerte currency in amounts less than 1,000 ceased to be legal tender, and Bolivar Fuerte currency in all amounts was completely withdrawn on 5 December 2018. . . .
The viral photograph was likely taken on 11 March 2019 and showed the aftermath of looting at a bank in the town of Merida. Local news outlet Maduradas.com compiled several other photographs of the incident and reported that the perpetrators had discarded the old money on the streets and even lit some of it on fire (translated via Google):
TERRIBLE! Hooded (vandals) sacked the bank Bicentenario in Merida and scattered bolivars of the old currency through the streets (+ Photos)
On Monday, March 11, hooded (vandals) sacked the Bicentenario bank agency on Avenue 3, Glorias Patrias, in the state of Merida.
The fact was confirmed by the deputy of the National Assembly Williams Dávila, as well as by the correspondent of El Nacional in the state of Mérida, Leonardo León.
Through the social network Twitter, they reported that citizens scattered piles of old money bills in the streets, which were then set on fire.
TWITTER:
 
Descifrando la Guerra @descifraguerra Replying to @descifraguerra  Ayer se produjo el saqueo de un banco bicentenario en la ciudad de Mérida, en las cercanías de la plaza Glorias Patrias. Los saqueadores incendiaron una pila de bolívares además de dejar muchos billetes por el suelo.
Mayr 12, 2019. [Mar not May, thanks Melinda Mills] -------------- end of Twitter quote as seen as Snopes ------------
In short, the “money in gutters” image shown above captured an older and now invalid form of currency that was tossed aside after the looting of a bank, and not usable currency discarded by citizens because it had been made next to worthless due to “socialism.”
------------------end of Snopes.com quote------------------
Snopes is often wrong. But these pictures were already well known and understood in their original context on Twitter, and from various journalists on all sides of the Venezuela situation before Snopes picked up on it.
It was still related to Maduro, and is still related to money becoming worthless. It is still supportive of the idea that people will be throwing their money (even their gold) in the streets, because money is of no value as a savior in the day of Jehovah's fury. It shows how bad things can get. A major use of these pictures, however, was to create a lie that it was all based on Maduro's mismanagement and therefore could be blamed on socialism. The masked persons who came into the bank may very well have planned the propaganda photo-op for purposes of drumming up support from outside Venezuela for the opposition parties.
It reminds me of Russian authorities planting literature in JW KH's as a set-up to frame trouble. The opposition parties in Venezuela have been getting away with violence, riots, sabotage, even terrorism, hoping to create a big enough backlash from the government that will give the excuse for a "regime" change.
It also reminds me of how someone can take pictures of Bro. Morris in a liquor store to try to give the impression that all this must be for him and him alone, or that it must be for the purpose of allowing him to abuse alcohol over some period of time.

quote
---
Within Christianity, there tend to be three major views of the place of excommunication:
[1] We shouldn’t excommunicate anyone, because it’s not merciful.
[2] We should excommunicate, because we want to purify the Church of the damned.
[3] We should excommunicate, because it’s merciful to sinners.

So which of these views is the one endorsed by Scripture? Number three. In fact, the first two are rejected outright within the Bible itself.
To those who fall into the first camp, who reject the place of excommunication within New Testament Christianity, I would point you to Jesus’ words in Matthew 18:15-18,
If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Jesus is solemnly entrusting the Church with the power to bind and loosen, and this is closely tied with the Church’s ability to excommunicate unrepentant sinners. And it’s more than just an ability. Jesus actually instructs it as the appropriate course of action to be taken in the case of certain unrepentant sinners. They are be ostracized, in the way that the Jews of the time treated Gentiles and tax collectors.
St. Paul, writing in Romans 16:17, similarly instructs: “I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them.”
So excommunication is Biblical, but it’s easy to understand why some people are uncomfortable with it, and find it contrary to mercy. After all, some of the noisiest defenders of excommunication defend it for the wrong reasons. As Rex Edwards of Columbia Union College wrote back in 1976:
EXCOMMUNICATION has been regarded by ecclesiastics as the ultimate disciplinary measure. As a “weapon” it has been conspicuous for its abuse. It has been employed as a penalty, often plunging the defendent into a situation of abysmal irreversibility. Luther in his “Discussion of Confession” emphasizes the punitive aspect of excommunication, while Calvin declares it to be a public ecclesiastical censure for the purpose of purification.
But excommunication isn’t treated as punitive in Scripture, and the idea that we are the ones who will purify the Church is actually an idea condemned by Jesus in Matthew 13:24-29,
Another parable he put before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. And the servants of the householder came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then has it weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ But he said, ‘No; lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. Let both grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”
So the servants of the Lord want to go and try to purify His Kingdom by separating out the wicked from the righteous, but Jesus stops them from doing so, since their attempts to do so would surely result in unjustly condemning the righteous. Instead, He tells them to let the weeds grow alongside the wheat until the harvest. When the Disciples ask what this means, He explains (Mt. 13:40-43):
Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son of man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
So it’s the job of the angels, not us, to purify the Church. And they’re going to do it at the Last Judgment, not now. In other words, the entire Protestant attempt to create a holy Church by creating a Church of only the righteous, of only the saved, failed from the start because Christ told them not to do it.
All of this is to say that creating a “wheat-only” Church isn’t why we excommunicate. And yet, we are to excommunicate. So if that isn’t the reason, what is?
For the good of sinners.
Scripture is quite clear on this. When St. Paul writes the Church in Corinth, he’s aghast that they are letting a man openly engage in a sexual relationship with his other stepmom. In fact, they had become proud of what they apparently thought of as their tolerance and mercy. St. Paul rebukes them for this, writing (1 Corinthians 5:1-5):
It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and of a kind that is not found even among pagans; for a man is living with his father’s wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
For though absent in body I am present in spirit, and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done such a thing. When you are assembled, and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
He goes on to issue a general call for excommunication (1 Corinthians 5:9-13):
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with immoral men; not at all meaning the immoral of this world, or the greedy and robbers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But rather I wrote to you not to associate with any one who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.”
So St. Paul clearly doesn’t fall into the “don’t excommunicate” camp, and he’s not impressed with the false tolerance of those who do.
But notice why he calls for the man’s excommunication. He orders him to be delivered to Satan “that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” In other words, you publicly condemn the man for the same reason you would tell a student that he’s failing: not to write him off, but to let him know that he needs to get his act together while there’s still time. Better to be condemned now and repent, than to be indulged in your sins now and condemned at the Last Judgment.
And note well, St. Paul’s tough love worked. Or at least, so it seems from his follow-up letter to the Corinthians (2 Corinthians 2:5-11):
If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you to some extent—not to put it too severely. The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient. Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him. Another reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything. Anyone you forgive, I also forgive. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.
There’s a time to shame the sinning man, and there’s a time to comfort him so he isn’t overwhelmed by his shame and sorrow. In other words, the excommunication was medicinal, it was for his good. Rather than looking on the sinning man as an enemy of the Church, Paul looked on him as an erring brother who needed to be rebuked to be brought back in line.
And Paul lays this model of Church discipline out succinctly in 2 Thessalonians 3:6, 14-15:
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. […] If any one refuses to obey what we say in this letter, note that man, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. Do not look on him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.
That’s a perfectly clear endorsement of the third of the three ways that I laid out above: excommunicate, but out of love, not an attempt to create a perfectly-pure Church.
So there it is: the basic case for why we should (and why we shouldn’t) excommunication.
---
end quote

That makes the point for me, that there is an inherit malignancy in the McAfee software.  
It has been many years, but I think I remember uninstalling it with CCLEANER's "tools" option.
 CCLEANER is a magnificent piece of free ... TOTALLY FREE ... software, that I have been using since 1997 or so, with perfect results, every time.   It removes all clutter from my computer, including debugging and cleaning up the "registry".
I use it about every two weeks to keep my computers healthy.
 

I understand you, but you have a sense on interjecting things into a situation and assume things to quickly with very little information.
Well you should have been much more clearer next time. If you do not quote people it will lead to such responses such as this. Because the other times where you reference a response to be without quoting, you made the response direct to me by merely saying SM. To which half the time I made comment of that.
How hard is it to simply use half a second to click the icon? It's simple, one click @JOHN BUTLER 
In the United States. Not only the title says such, but the article itself points to it and where the crimes are being committed.
But you generalize the people and make assumptions out of mere speculations. There is already those of the county who make speculations of the LGBTQ community regarding such.
You will soon have to. There is a problem in which you deem is unclean, a problem in which effects you in someway, there should be a sense of care, regardless. You said it best, Butler, earth-wide. And it is not just religion, it is in every aspect of such a sense. The problem is not within the Jehovah's Witnesses, but of others also, not even us Unitarians, regardless of denomination, are immune either.
But you are jumping to conclusions when we do not really have a whole lot of people, just like those who were quick to jump to homosexuality, which seems to be the case with what took place months ago regarding a cake.
We can see that by the article, Butler. The time frame tells us there has been previous linked attacks against their church, which is why some would deem it as a religious hate crime in some degree.
Points or speculation without legitimate fact? Follow the story and eventually it will piece itself together.
I had agreed with some points you made in the past, you did the same in my case, but using a based assumption and or speculation to a situation that has little to no information is kind of jumping the gun. And time and time again people had spoken up about religious activity in the US, especially when it comes to Christians alone. Being ignorant of what is going on shows when people use little discernment, especially with the fact we had that whole fiasco with the black flag years ago and what came after that. Reasons why Christians are vigilante, and they are aware of such things.
The same to you, Butler. I strongly advise you look into religious hate crimes in the United States. The more you know the better. An optional thing for you to do is to look into the statistics of such things, perhaps going back 2015 to now.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/26/half-of-all-church-fires-in-past-20-years-were-arsons/

Years ago, when there were many fewer choices, I used to use McAfee Anti-Virus software, but noticed that every time I updated, I got a VIRUS!
I think , and I am serious about this, that McAfee creates viruses, or the program gives many false positives. Or both.
I use Freemake Video Downloader  several times a week, and have never had any problem.
.... since I uninstalled McAfee about 10 years ago.
 

@James Thomas Rook Jr. All that because someone allegedly bought wine? Remembrance of our Lord is, literally, around the corner.
At this point you can expect someone to dress up as Jesus buying wine somewhere.
That being said, how else did such ones prep for the Lord's day before if this is something new?

So what is with the whole tinfoil-hattery regarding someone buying some wine? Especially around this time of year, stuff like this is no surprise.

So what is with the whole tinfoil-hattery regarding someone buying some wine? Especially around this time of year, stuff like this is no surprise.

My contribution to "Global Warming" is limited to accidentally leaving my bathroom window open.
 
REMEMBER !   Every home, office, factory and other building that is heated ... every single one ..... without exception ... eventually loses that heat from the inside, to the outside.  Think of 5 BILLION hot spots on the Earth, sucking up natural gas, oil, electricity, propane, coal and uranium, and turning it into HEAT!
Even in the summer, air conditioners pump HEAT to the outside air.
 
Now that you are excited, and hyper-ventilating in an ecological save the planet or we are all doomed panic ....  what does that mean as a practical, real life matter?
 
Absolutely NOTHING!
 
 

When more of these things get out, it is going to spark rage and tension from those who had people suffer in those prisons and had to endure such vile treatment. As of late, Russian torture claims with evidence  by form of media from months/years ago have been surfacing up recently by those who took ear to this situation regarding JWs.

@BillyTheKid46 Yes. Meanwhile, you have people will speak of global warming and climate change, and at the same time they ignore recent events concerning such, for example, glaciers in Greenland, while on the other side of things you have people at NASA in a situation such as this:

 
That being said, there is always something about global and climate change when it is concerning the powers that be, and those who think they know such things without doing a little bit of the research show themselves unaware of things.

It may be as a practical matter almost impossible to "catch-up", Billy, but you need to spend a year researching what a bunch of fraudsters and fakers the IPCC is. There have been many documentations of their internal "bad science" ... BECAUSE ... they faked data to fit the fake models.
If you spend now  until about mid-2020 you might... MIGHT ... catch up.
The key words to start with is "IPCC emails".
https://www.foxnews.com/science/fastest-thinning-greenland-glacier-threw-nasa-scientists-for-a-loop-its-actually-growing?cmpid=NL_SciTech

God's day can be any day, one just has to be prepared for it. Keeping vigilante is vital, being spiritually strong is extremely crucial and important. There are those who do not understand things thing it is a bit extreme, others, as shown, think it is bullying, on the other side of the spectrum,there are real God fearing men, women and children who don't water down what God is going to , they see what their counterparts do don't see regarding what God can and will do; but sadly, those who cannot see or are weak, misguided in faith are ones who brush over even what Prophet Isaiah had said and so forth, as is with the words of others. Woe to them because when something is said it goes in one ear, and out the other.
God's day will be a great day indeed for those who are enduring, those of whom God knows who are for him, but it will be quite the opposite for those, who willfully knew who God is and does things not according to him or things by means of his Son, who built the church, and in the end, they will see for themselves of God purpose and will be finally realized, both the righteous and those of good and heard the spoken word of God, and both the unrighteous those who willfully done bad while knowing God's Word.
That being said, spiritual wisdom is for those who seek and examine it for better understanding, as is with building up faith in knowing God and his Son and what promises his Kingdom will bring, one key thing that people will benefit from is eternal life.
This is why we must keep walking, for at the end of the road there is promise that was spoken of.
Endurance, vigilance, faith, etc. 
A hint of discernment can show cracks in the armor of those of little faith, and the strength of those who have an abundance of faith in terms of spiritual wisdom.

@BillyTheKid46 You someone, I think the guy was a former Baptist, a Middle Eastern American young man. He made a video regarding some of what you had said about JWs, but sadly no one like this man exposing lies and bringing forth truth and there were people who literally wiped his YouTube Channel regarding this.
It tells you how people would go to great length to take out a message someone says in order to continue pushing false information as a legitimate truth.

@Srecko Sostar Truly, truly I saith unto thee, he does not knoweth how things work. No it is not a double standard, this is why I posted that link so you can understand how things roll in said country.

Baptismal regeneration is just another of the pompous terms giiven by apostates to a distorted interpretation of scripture presented as a "doctrine". It is not a bilble teaching.
Baptism is a necessary part of the action of anyone  wishing to come into an approved relationship with Jehovah through his Son Jesus Christ of course. But it is an act that, whilst directed by Jesus Christ (Matt.28:19) and therefore essential, has a symbolic significance and does nothing in a physical way to the individual. Peter made that clear at 1Pet.3:21.

I am just going to answer with this. You can choose to pick it apart if you wish. Were these folks God's mouthpiece based on the criteria you claim? 
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
 

https://www.diarioconcepcion.cl/ciudad/2018/09/13/no-izar-bandera-nacional-puede-ocasionar-multas-de-hasta-240-mil.html
Possibly related:
 

I've explained this a while ago pertaining to the early church in relation to Scripture and the Didache, as well as such in regards to Salvation, I believe this was talked about to you several times. Even before them, before us, there were people of God who are of this church, the same one that Jesus has built, same teachings, same practices, etc. all intact. A Christian would not be concerning of preaching the gospel if they believe that only they themselves would be saved, otherwise that would be hypocritical, hence why Christians will preach the gospel to the people, and this is an example in which we see with what took place during and after Pentecost, perhaps even Jesus and the Samaritan woman as read in John 4.
For someone such as yourself to claim you are anointed, yet water down Christ's Kingship and butcher God's order of things, you cannot be taken seriously. Not to mentioned, you be very, very aware of the connection between Christians and the church of the Christ, and those of whom who heed the word.
Hypocritical, is all that can be said. But surely one among the Firstfruits should have seen that one coming.
That being said, God is merciful and such mercy is extended to all persons, God knows who is and who is not for him. There are those out there who still needs to know what the gospel is, and clearly, so what are you doing to help such ones?
The church itself is of the Christ, built by him. I advise you not to forget what that is, and what it means.

My bad, typed too fast. But yes, observe and meditate.