Space Merchant

Jesus carried it initially.  Later, the Roman soldiers "compelled" Simon of Cyrene to carry it for him....
 

Yes, but in this case, especially in what is taking place in Speaker's Corner, you have those who attest to a false doctrine trying to take up and cover more ground to teach something that is not of the church. Examples would be that God has wives one of his wives being Mary, and they'll preach it. God is 3 persons, they'll preach it. You debate with them, and correct them, and they will attack you, even insult you when you profess the truth.
Speaking about apostates, one of them professed he can heal people with the touch of his hand on to you, Benny Hinn style. Such ones need to be put in their place and be corrected on what the Bible says.
That being said, this place I still see it as Controversial Posts (being ready to be pit to the test), and as did before in a discussion of religious history, it shall be done here also. Most importantly a truth will be spoken and it will be told.
In this sense however, people are claiming to have apples and such ones believe said people, but when I ask for apples, it turns out, they didn't have any apples at all, to my surprise, I lecture them on as to why they made such an error in claiming to have these apples that are, in their case, non-existent.

You sure about that? Granted when it is evident of what someone likes in agreement to something and or dislikes something, favors something and or continues such as an absolute, not to mention evident and yet subtle response to said response. Example how you stated, even mocked that of could abuse and neglected services itself whereas you made claim as if it was pulled from books from JWs, when that information was pulled directly from a site that carters to educating people about abuse.
As for the Bible, I merely took up verses of Wisdom and Knowledge to be in application to people, in turn even children - granted that in Jesus' childhood days, knowledge and wisdom was very important, likewise, it should be important for us also.
That being said, he is correct and I made this remark also, thus it being correct. You cannot shift something that has already existed and even having it's own definition, and in that definition it even states (in an online context) to register an approval of or agreement with (a post or poster) by means of a particular icon - that solidifies the claim of agreeing with someone or not, with or without a response. The same goes with an expression of gratitude as with liking what is said. As for us CSE folk, the difference is over there compared to here is that you gain a reputation the more someone agrees with you, the more reputation you gain.
In this sense, you agree with anything that is spoken of, and this isn't the first time. Remember, Biblical Facts? I do.The number of times you agree with what is not true is rather telling, as with other discussions, moreover, you even agreed to the claim I am somehow misogynistic against women just for a typo error, I asked for proof that day too, yet no one deliver, thus people love to make claims they cannot cash.
The young one claims that he knows you and or has ran into you before (granted it seems you are everywhere and not just this forum i.e. of how I found out about Glasgow your comments were elsewhere too), hence referring to you as Frida. Perhaps someone or something associated with you in your life.

... it's a core problem ....

If they cut off both of my arms, in the immortal words of Monty Python's Black Knight, I would kick them where it hurts the most, and yell " ... MERELY A FLESH WOUND!"

I've used this argument at the door and with Bible studies, too: that supposedly Christians, even if they claim they are not worshiping the item, should still find it wrong to carry around a model of the "murder weapon" that killed Jesus Christ! I've even heard the additional example from other Witnesses, such as: "If your own father had been murdered with an AK-47, or a .38 revolver, would you ever think about carrying around a small model of an AK-47, or a .38 revolver, on a chain around your neck?"
Of course, this seemed quite fair until I learned that a member of the Governing Body who had worn a cross in the past, remembered that it was the way in which they felt they were showing their agreement with the idea in Mark:
(Mark 8:34) . . .“If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his [STAUROS] and follow me continually." It was the Bible that treated the STAUROS as a "symbol." And we would never have complained that Jesus was saying (Mark 8:34) . . .“If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his [MURDER WEAPON] and follow me continually."
Similarly, the apostle Paul would have been saying:
(1 Corinthians 2:2) For I decided not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ, and [his MURDER WEAPON]. Jesus and Paul knew that the STAUROS (whether cross or stake) was a proper symbol that could remind us of Christ's sacrifice, and it would remind us of our own need for daily sacrifice, and even a similar sacrifice to the death if need be. But this is not an external symbol like baptism by which we show we have dedicated our lives to God and associate ourselves with Christians of like faith. For we walk by faith and not by sight, and need no ongoing piece of jewelry to state our Christian status.

Here, if you are losing a debate, it is common to label the one winning the debate, an Apostate.

Nowhere have I shown total support for Islam, therefore John Butler's claim is as empty as a cookie jar in a Kinder Care facility, it is always empty and forever will be empty because he made the conclusion on empty facts of which he cannot even prove when he himself stated it.
It was regarding a thread of which I explained Islam to him and the belief of Muslims, I understand Muslims because I have tried to teach them the bible before. Plus young ones I speak to some of them are Muslims, and I do not go around bashing them or speaking of conspiracy, I come to common ground with them to speak of what God will soon do, just as a Jew to a Samaritan, a Christian to a Muslim.
We should be preaching the gospel, for this is what the bible says, to all people, to all nations, but somehow Mr. Butler cannot see that.
That being said, the man things explaining something and exposing falsehood and bringing forth truth is supporting. Therefore that statement alone on his part is very, very weak.
And yes, he has shown himself to agree with the others hence his own word and his own reactions to them. But hey, I am not someone who is a fan of a guy who believes God's Order should be changed, believes God sent Satan to do his bidding, believes in humans not being humans but of something else which is in opposition of the church, as well as the other guy who thinks of God's Friend as a selfish lair, and adheres to the being acceptive of something that God is clearly against, as seen in the Bible regarding Lot and what he had endured.
It is Kathgar. He is an British-Pankistani Jehovah's Witness who tends to refute people in connection with debates and other things regarding Speaker's Corner, of course he does it online, but is very reserved to himself and those of his circle. Ironically enough, he does not take kindly to people who uses the bible to profess Trinitarianism and Gnosticism, granted that he, as do others, are in constant debate with the opposing groups who profess a doctrine that is not of the Bible or of the Church.
I debated against Kathgar only once (plus at the time I was unprepared of what went down that day and I had made mistakes in confusing things that I lacked in during that time), an the reason for it was due to a Agnostic, who was clearly struggling who tried to divert the debate on to someone else, only at the end, he came back to bite him. The irony is, this only open a door to learn about the more complex things in Christianity and the Bible so I can better understand things, such as questions that are posed that seem difficult and or complex, but in truth, are ridiculously easy to answer, some questions that I can answer another Christian may not even try to answer, especially Trintiarians, for such ones would be quick to denounce a prophet or someone of the Bible int his regard without understand that the answer is in plain site.
I can tell you this, you have to be very very spiritual strong to debate and or discuss matters because there will be a chance for some people who had to defend the truth of the Scriptures. and know that truth always prevail. opposers will speak of you as one who runs or flees, they will skip to insult and mock you for speaking what is true, but know this, the one who speaks truth is the real winner and the one who mocks and insults are the losers.
 
If the other person ends up attacking you, you are actually winning the debate.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.

@Jack Ryan After it has taken that long since a Da'wah was in order, it is say to say you didn't have proof to begin with, just a mere screenshot picture and a thread that amounts to nothing. If you bring this up to an educated Muslim who is knowledgeable of his own book and the bible, you would lose, and for John's sake, if you both live in the UK, Hyde Park is not the place you want to be if you cannot bring proof to claim i.e. you speak of Muhammad, they will bring up Moses and you instantly lose if you do not know the context of both persons.

Just an FYI, not sure if anyone is aware that Facebook went down sometime ago prior to the situation with Israel.

Any mention of pillows is a sore subject with me. Many of my friends had to go naked for the sake of these.
 
Whenever the office staff thought a letter was from a birdbrain they handed it to me. I never got to do anything else. That’s why I left.

He does not know that the actions of alone person a killer, a pedophile, a con man, even if that person is in the church of Jehovah's Witnesses, the actions of such a man does not define all of them. This goes hand in hand with someone who is of and or former by their own experience, they do not define everyone else.
Butler's experience does not define the experience and actions of another UK counterpart of his, an Arab JW named Kathgar.
This mentality is absurd to assumption of the masses for the sake one one or two foolish ones. Such a mentality plagues everything from religion to education, and even in the realm of medicine and disease.
But as one guy mentioned today to me, that is the mind of people of the world nowadays. As of recent a Security Guard was shot and killed for stopping a gunman. An honest man would know that one police officer should be held accountable, but it does not bring anyone justice to attack all police officers for the sake one man who took such action, to add more fuel to the fire it becomes more of a racial thing.
People can be better than that but they refuse to bring forth the betterment of themselves thus passing on the erroneous actions of their hands to the children, the next generation and they to their children, next generation.
That being said, such ones need to wake up, but that therapeutic pillow is just too good for them and they remain asleep.

Whenever I get depressed, I think about Kermit The Frog.
International Movie Star.
Dates a Famous Pig.
Can afford all the flies he can possibly eat
Rides around in a hand-painted old Studebaker Car with a comedian Bear, that sounds like Yoda.

Romans were brutal. You'd have to leave town before they can capture you, perhaps go overseas and go full incognito. But then you may have a bounty on your head so if you have hear and a beard, best to shave it all off, try to blend in, so this way bounty hunters and assassins will not find you to hand you over to those who want to crucify you.
Other than that, Roman punishment was swift, cruel and ridiculously unusual.
Aside from Crucifixion (that is if they do not get unique with hanging someone upon side on a good day for them), you can be
Bee Basket'd Eaten through the middle by starving animals be cauldron tortured Public Executions buried alive, (something of which Nero took delight in) nailed to barrels The Arena Being burned alive, while bonded Fed to Lions toured by means of being forced to walk on hot coal that is always burning. tied off cut in half fed to wild hogs sewn into a donkey tossed to wild barbaric beasts possibly decapitation, but they are the types to have enduring pain rather than an instant execution To them in ancient history regarding Roman, death was not a punishment, it is a release, for torture was punishment, and death was only allowed after a certain amount of pain and terror had been felt.
They got a variety, that for sure.
That being said, it was a brutal time, and if one was Crucified, wait til they go for your legs, they'll break them if you are still somehow barely alive if they need to speed up death, it is that crazy.

Hi folks. Just breezing through.  I've not dropped off the end of the earth - I'm just *really* busy. Got a notification on my email saying the Librarian wanted to know if Leolaia's excellent article "Jehovah's Witnesses and the Cross" was still available. The previous link is now dead, apparently.
Try here: http://www.forananswer.org/Top_JW/jwcross.pdf 
Glad to see these discussions are still going. Hi and bye

The PDF linked earlier, "Jehovah's Witnesses and the Cross" Leolaia, 1990, speaks of semantic restriction by which some Watchtower doctrines have developed by focusing on only the simplest etymological meaning of a word like parousia or stauros or xylon, etc. In the case of "hand" there was found good reason to go with semantic expansion to fit our traditional beliefs on the subject.
Of course, this is not the only way that we (and, frankly, all Christian-associated religions  and others, too) solve problems of textual understanding. We could have used the method of resolving apparent contradictions by merely making up a third story that allows for a strict sense of the text to be true. For example, we have two versions of the death of Judas in the gospel accounts:
(Matthew 27:5-8) . . .So he threw the silver pieces into the temple and departed. Then he went off and hanged himself. 6 But the chief priests took the silver pieces and said: “It is not lawful to put them into the sacred treasury, because they are the price of blood.” 7 After consulting together, they used the money to buy the potter’s field as a burial place for strangers. 8 Therefore, that field has been called Field of Blood to this very day. (Acts 1:18, 19) 18 (This very man, [Judas] therefore, purchased a field with the wages for unrighteousness, and falling headfirst, his body burst open and all his insides spilled out. 19 This became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their language A·kelʹda·ma, that is, “Field of Blood.”)
To accommodate a strict-sense reading of both versions, we merely make up a third story that makes both versions true. We say that Judas bought the field in the sense that he provided the money even though others bought it. We also say that Judas hung himself but since there is no mention of falling in the first, and no mention of hanging in the second, we say that while hanging himself the branch broke and he died from the fall when his body burst open.*
So the WTS could have solved the supposed problem created by a strict-sense use of the word "hands" by merely adding a third story, not in the text, that Jesus may also have been bound to the stake in addition to being nailed. I read of a Roman slave carrying the patibulum through the public streets on their way to execution and having that patibulum tied to the arms of the slave. The patibulum of course, could become the crossbeam of an upright stake.
The fact that no third story like this, however plausible, has been suggested tells me that "semantic expansion" has been the solution, and this is the easiest idea to support from the Greek and from Scriptural usage of "hand."
*I think it's "funny" that when Papias (60 AD - 130 AD?) went to Palestine hoping to find first-hand corroboration of some of these early accounts he discovered completely different versions. For example, Judas was supposed to have blown up so big and fat, like a balloon, that he burst asunder and all his guts (fecal matter) were spread around. (His weight could have been part of a "third story" solution that explained a breaking branch!) The versions Papias learned told of Judas in this same condition, I think, being run over by a chariot (so that his fecal matter spread around on the ground). Mentioning the spread of someone's fecal matter as a most disgusting death was not limited to pagans. It is very explicit in the account of how Ehud kills "fat king, Eglon." And it's implicit in the idea that dogs ate up the body of Jezebel in the plot of Jezreel.
I saw this at https://www.gotquestions.org/nails-hands-wrists.html
While historical scholars are uncertain of the nail placement in Jesus’ crucifixion, or anyone else’s for that matter, the Bible simply says that Jesus had wounds in His hands (John 20:25-27). The Greek word translated “hands” is cheir, which means literally “hands.” There is no Greek word for “wrists” in the New Testament, even though some versions translate Acts 12:7 to say that the chains fell off Peter’s wrists. But the Greek word in this verse is also cheir. It's possible that the nails may have been angled to enter through the hand and exit through the wrist, but it's just as likely that the nails were driven straight through the hand somewhere near the base of the thumb. Experiments have shown that both ways do work and either way could have been used in the crucifixion of Jesus. I have also read that the "experiments" were some "scientist" nailing up cadavers to test the theory. Evidently just the hands alone actually could support the weight of any corpse he tried. Weird science.

@Witness I will ask you a 3rd time. Give me the actual claim that they said they were inspired prophets.
I stated before twisting things in your favor does not equate to the claim of which you are accusing them of, I asked for inspired prophets, you bring up prophet-like organization when it is already know most Non-Trinitarians claim they are the True Church, but we have yet to see JWs, or ANY non-Trinitarian make claim to inspiration.
So I will ask you, @Srecko Sostar and @JOHN BUTLER
You all agree to the claim of which you profess that they inspired prophets, now I ask you, where did they make this claim?
And by the way, what you posted has been debunked just as the whole trust funds thing.
That being said, the claim of which I am asking you of regarding inspired prophets - I wait for from you - Witness, otherwise you are in deception by your own hand.
The fact no Anti-Trinitarian ever made that claim makes you far more than a liar than the doctrine that formed long ago in the Council.
Indeed, the next time you feel the need to mix, twist Strong's in your favor, perhaps do so to someone who does not know that information, let alone you making the assuming somehow God sent Satan to deal with Egyptians or trying to justify your belief in Man's Doctrine rather than God.

Do not add to my words Butler. You know exactly what I said. If you do not understand Strong's do the research otherwise you will show yourself to be ignorant of what it is, granted you do not know where the very bible you read derives from.
If you do not trust a translation, why bother to read it because you find it easier? Double-Speak much?

As to what human rules are you even speaking about?
You have the Church whereas its teachings are to be adhered to, as with what is commanded by God ans his Christ. Nothing in this sense screams human rule, if you can agree with an apostle who lead the church, it is understandable, but to agree with someone who is alienated from eh church or teach what is accursed, clearly you will run into some problems.
there is a line between what is of the church and what is considered accursed and not of the church.

@Srecko Sostar Nothing of which you posted even states the claim of inspired prophet. The constant flailing coupled with the rehashing of what was already posted does not do much in your favor.
 
Therefore, the claim of inspired prophet remains unfounded. You wouldn't catch a Non-Trinitarian say they are an inspired prophet anywhere.
Also it shows you clearly do not know the difference between a prophet and an inspired prophet - that is rather telling. That alone tells you were you sit in regards to Spiritual Wisdom.

Pretty much Restorationism to the roots. You learn and apply just as the church has done in the past.

I have trouble finding evidence of that. Can you post some links? It interests me because so far I have seen plenty of evidence that cross like symbols (especially the Ankh and Greek) are found in ancient artifacts, of the near east, and far east, but they never seem to be connected to any type of implement for torture or execution, but rather to jewellery, decoration, literature, and ritualistic and religious aspects. If a cross was used in execution I would have expected to see at least one representation of it, since people had no qualms about representing other gruesome scenes, such as people impaled (through the body) on a stake etc. I take it back, I did see one, which is supposed to be Dionysus/Bacchus but I haven't been able to find out exact information about it only that it is supposed to be from 500 BCE.
 
And a Vase, which is supposed to be also depicting Dionysus/Bacchus crucified. But I can't see that. I agree with the explanation given in that thread "It's significance was to antropomoriphize the idol as it would allow Dionysus to return to the world and participate in the ritual sacrifice and marriage to a queen. Before the idol are loaves of bread and jugs of wine, blessed by Dionysus himself". Also: " There's other vases from around the same period in which a choir of dithyrambs gather around a cross-shaped altar, and children carry a cross behind the carriage of the soon to be married queen". It looks like the thread has quite an interesting discussion, but I have not really had the time to read all the posts, just a couple. http://earlywritings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4387

So I am still looking for an artifact depicting torture/execution involving a cross or cross like shape. There seems to be plenty of talk of Romans having adopted the cross for execution from the Assyrians and Babylonians, but I can't find anything resembling a cross used in that way in those cultures.
Assyrian execution -  impalement through body on upright stakes (cir 911-612 BCE)

Tell me about. Ever had a guy threaten you with a Machete up close, moving about in a sword dance like fashion? Believe me, it took some time to calm the guy down because he came talking about things he read online and painted a crazy picture of us in his head.
Some brothers and sisters get it bad, even back in the day during the 1940s some were hunted in the same sense the KKK hunted African Americans. I believe one brother had been cut in a way that part of him had been removed. 
Even today it is bad and for some brothers and sisters on the other side of the globe it is far worse.

@Srecko Sostar Nothing of which you posted even states the claim of inspired prophet. The constant flailing coupled with the rehashing of what was already posted does not do much in your favor.
 
Therefore, the claim of inspired prophet remains unfounded. You wouldn't catch a Non-Trinitarian say they are an inspired prophet anywhere.
Also it shows you clearly do not know the difference between a prophet and an inspired prophet - that is rather telling. That alone tells you were you sit in regards to Spiritual Wisdom.

The Caravan consist of other immigrants so not only Mexicans. On the other side of the spectrum, Trump was to send out military force to deal with them should they get near.