Foreigner

Because i am one of those who are in opposition to WTJWORG ideology (officially from 2015), do you sure about your conclusion how @JW Insider skillfully deceived me to to join him in the same job? :)))
I have never met JW Insider before this Forum, and we are not in any sort of conspiracy. :))) But, I am gladly to met him and some other participants who gave comments here.   

@JW Insider  Quote "So, more recently, the Watchtower stopped discounting the idea about the "rapture."  "
Is this then something else the GB / Writing dept / W/t have changed their minds about. In fact changed meaning of scripture ?  
In honesty how many congregants have a good understanding of all this ? 
I always thought that all of the Anointed would be in heaven at Armageddon. I don't even remember being taught anything different.  I was taught that as each one of the Anointed died they went immediately to heaven... Then the living ones would be gathered up / taken up before the Judgement started. 
I'm more confused than ever now :(    Not that i have any faith in Watchtower / GB teachings anyway, but I like to consider all things. 

@BillyTheKid46  Quote "12 The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction.... "
I added the phrase 'by holy spirit' actually. 
What else does God use to inspire people or anoint people or for God to work through people, via Jesus Christ  ?
Matthew 3 v 16
After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him.17  Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”
Acts 2 v 3&4.
And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them,4  and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak.
Now this becomes even more interesting if we look at the word ERR which the GB or Writing Dept used. Did the GB deliberately use this word err ? Do they understand the implication of it ? 
err /əː/ verb FORMAL be mistaken or incorrect; make a mistake. "the judge had erred in ruling that the evidence was inadmissible" synonyms: make a mistake, be wrong, be in error, be mistaken, mistake, make a blunder, blunder, be incorrect, be inaccurate, misjudge, miscalculate, get things/something/it wrong, bark up the wrong tree, get the wrong end of the stick, be wide of the mark; More     fail to adhere to the proper or accepted standards; do wrong. "he has erred and strayed as many of us have" synonyms: misbehave, do wrong, go wrong, behave badly, misconduct oneself, be bad, be naughty, get up to mischief, get up to no good, act up, act badly, give someone trouble, cause someone trouble; 
 
The second meaning seems more likely. 
 Therefore, the GB can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction.... "  It can, do wrong, go wrong, behave badly, misconduct oneself, get up to mischief, and, give some trouble. 
Yep that sounds right.  The GB, for once, admitting they do wrong. 
 

...but then again.... this is how Parent birds feed their young ... they go out and eat insects, worms and other "stuff", predigest it, and fly back and vomit it directly into their baby birds throats.
They are happy to get it, and beg for more.
Animals often  have no other choice.

Good question. I see you are actually thinking about the topic rather than just being pulled down into the squabbling.
When the end comes, and the judgment comes, we can expect that there will be anointed on earth. To me this seems clear from Paul's account of the end:
(1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:2) 15 For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord. 18 So keep comforting one another with these words. 5 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.
In other words, at some surprisingly sudden point in time, the dead (anointed) are raised to heaven together with those who are surviving right up to the time of the "parousia of the Lord." The timing has always been a matter of much conjecture. We don't like to use the term rapture, so our previous doctrine here taught that the parousia started in 1914 (as it still teaches, officially) but that the first resurrection (including Paul's resurrection) was supposed to have happened in 1918. This was a leftover from our old parallel dispensation teachings under Barbour, Russell, and early Rutherford. In fact, it was explained that because Jesus appeared as Messiah/Christ in 29 and was resurrected 3.5 years later, that the invisible appearance of Christ in October 1914 would be followed by a resurrection of all the dead saints in the spring of 1918.
But 1918, although it once appeared more often than 1919 in our publications, has now been almost completely removed from our repertoire of prophetic dates, and replaced with dates like 1919 and more recent events. Jesus no longer inspected his temple in 1918, nor do we teach that the first resurrection must have happened in that year. Instead of just making a sudden change to the doctrine, it was changed from an important prophetic date to just "an interesting possibility."
*** w07 1/1 p. 28 par. 12 “The First Resurrection”—Now Under Way! ***
At this point, it may be helpful to consider what might be viewed as a Bible parallel. Jesus Christ was anointed as the future King of God’s Kingdom in the fall of 29 C.E. Three and a half years later, in the spring of 33 C.E., he was resurrected as a mighty spirit person. Could it, then, be reasoned that since Jesus was enthroned in the fall of 1914, the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began three and a half years later, in the spring of 1918? That is an interesting possibility.
We still liked the idea of starting that resurrection "early in Christ's presence" and especially wanted to have it start before 1935. The article continues:
This means that the first resurrection must have begun early in Christ’s presence, and it continues “during his presence.” (1 Corinthians 15:23) Rather than occurring all at once, the first resurrection takes place over a period of time. . . . “A white robe was given to each of them; and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been.”—Revelation 6:10, 11. . . .  So after war, famine, and pestilence began to ravage the earth, members of the 144,000 who were dead, represented by the blood at the base of the altar, were raised to heavenly life and clothed in symbolic white robes. . . . God’s Word does not disclose a precise date for the first resurrection, but it does reveal that it occurs over a period of time, during Christ’s presence. The first to be resurrected are anointed Christians who died before Christ’s presence began. As Christ’s presence progresses, anointed Christians who faithfully finish their earthly course are changed “in the twinkling of an eye” into powerful spirit creatures. (1 Corinthians 15:52) Will all the anointed receive their heavenly reward before the war of Armageddon? We do not know. We do know, however, that in God’s due time, all the 144,000 will be found standing on the heavenly Mount Zion.
You might notice the mistake that I highlighted. The dead (whose sacrificial blood cries out for justice) are told to wait until the number was filled. But if we place this parousia from 1914 on up through the great tribulation, then we don't really have them all being changed together so that no one group of anointed has to be concerned about going to heaven before another group of anointed. Revelation says they all wait until the number is filled. Thessalonians says they all go together, at the time of that trumpet call. In fact the scripture in 1 Cor 15:52 just referenced says:
(1 Corinthians 15:51, 52) 51 Look! I tell you a sacred secret: We will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we will be changed.
This sounds very much like the "rapture" teaching that we had avoided for years by using the word "during" Christ's parousia, and "during" the last trumpet. Actually, the Greek in context here provides better support for translating "at his parousia" not "during his parousia." and "at the last trumpet."
So, more recently, the Watchtower stopped discounting the idea about the "rapture." We still don't like the word because it reminds people of some false teachings still associated with the "rapture." But the basic idea of a "rapture" is now accepted. We still look to fit it all into our timeline for the first resurrection, Gog attack, great tribulation, marriage of the Lamb, etc.
*** w15 7/15 pp. 18-19 pars. 14-16 “Your Deliverance Is Getting Near”! ***
This gathering work does not refer to the initial ingathering of anointed ones; nor does it refer to the final sealing of the remaining anointed ones. (Matt. 13:37, 38) That sealing happens before the outbreak of the great tribulation. (Rev. 7:1-4) So, what is this gathering work that Jesus mentions? It is the time when the remaining ones of the 144,000 will receive their heavenly reward. (1 Thess. 4:15-17; Rev. 14:1) This event will take place at some point after the beginning of the attack by Gog of Magog. (Ezek. 38:11) Then these words of Jesus will be fulfilled: “At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father.”—Matt. 13:43.
15 Does this mean that there will be a “rapture” of the anointed ones? Many in Christendom believe, according to this teaching, that Christians will be bodily caught up from the earth. Then, they expect that Jesus will visibly return to rule the earth. . . .  So those who will be taken to heaven will first need to be “changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.” (Read 1 Corinthians 15:50-53.) Therefore, while we do not use the term “rapture” here because of its wrong connotation, the remaining faithful anointed will be gathered together in an instant of time.
16 Once all the 144,000 are in heaven, the final preparations for the marriage of the Lamb can begin. (Rev. 19:9) But something else will happen before that joyous event. Remember, shortly before the remaining ones of the 144,000 are taken to heaven, Gog will attack God’s people. (Ezek. 38:16)
Much more to say, but I hope you can at least see what I meant by including the heavenly anointed in the "sheep and goats" parable.

I have often thought of the analogy, (IN A DIFFERENT CONTEXT) of being in a medieval stone dungeon, one leg chained to the wall ... and the guards do not feed you .... and relatives have to swallow squares of meat without chewing to smuggle food to you, in their own stomachs, just before they visit you.
Yeah ... it's necessary and desperately needed food ... and food at the proper time .... and I would die without it, but ....
.... it's not the meat ... it's the DELIVERY SYSTEM!

Dense understanding of one paragraph?
The only part that is reality based is ONLY two sentences.
Take it in context?
I have my belly full of people playing with carefully crafted words, bending reality into a pretzel.
I have spent the last 50 years WATCHING the "context".
A MILLION words, carefully crafted, will not change what I know, and what I have personally seen,'
When you go to any restaurant for good food, you do not assume that the proper food, served at the proper time, a significant portion of it will be ROTTEN,.
Unless of course, the OTHER restaurants are so much worse,  you stop eating there.
Unfortunately, when I find turds in the theocratic salad, I have to eat around them.
There is nowhere else to go.
... but I do not like it!.
 
 

Are yes but the sinners Christ chose were INSPIRED OF HOLY SPIRIT and Christ FULLY OPENED UP THE SCRIPTURES TO THEM. 
You cannot say that about your GB as they say they are not inspired of holy spirit and they admit making 'mistakes'. 

... and I worry not that Billy or Foreigner down votes EVERYTHING that does not fit their corporate agendas ... eventually they will run out of drool, and when they sleep, the other eye stops twitching.

Ah it seems like I've missed all the fun on this topic, but didn't that GB guy in Aus say that it would be "presumptuous to say that the GB is the only channel of communication ?" 
And I'm sure that @Anna can see buy her original question how stupid the idea is. 
Imperfect men yes, but uninspired and often making 'mistakes' (or deliberate wrongdoings) are the leaders of the JW Org and W/t. And people actually follow these guys and serve them ? 

I don't know nothing about nature of JHVH (and his happiness). What i think i know maybe is wrong or insufficient. I am not sure how your view about God's nature is correct. Because you said, He is always happy with what He allows. 
B1 [ T ] to give permission for someone to do something, or to not prevent something from happening:
[ + that ] formal to admit or agree that something is true:
to let someone do something or let something happen; permit:
to make it possible for something to be done or to happen:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/allow
In regard to JW religion, and with your opinion, this would mean how JHVH is happy when JW members feeling, thinking, speaking and doing things that are factually wrong. Strange god you have :)) 

If people follow such teachings and kill themselves, it is loss of their own lives and wasted effort.
But when people, as in example you gave with Uriah, successfully implement to kill somebody (spiritual or literal dead) because of teaching aka instruction from some men ...... than is not enough to make just intellectual disagreement and do a job.... but refuse to do so. 

In my amateur opinion: two expressions with the same meaning :))))
Are you serious?
Do you want to apply this idea about JHVH only on JW religion in some special situations and periods of religious progress/changes aka new light dogma?
Or do you offer this Idea as General View (Happiness) that JHVH have on Humankind and World Condition (in specific religious issue: old Jew, 1st Church, 2nd Church, Reformed Churches, etc.) in past thousand years? By reading of Bible report we see that god was Unhappy only ones, when released Flood on Earth. In all other stages, periods by not intervened He showed Happiness? :))
 

I think there is a policy rule that all Governing Body Members have to be of the Annointed, have many, many years of faithful service to the Organization, be beyond reproach, well spoken of, and be able to pee, standing up.

@Srecko Sostar Sometimes you make me laugh loudly. I must not this morning as my wife is still in bed (at 10am) .  Have a good day my friend. 

Not necessarily, and we know the prophets gave us insight into the last days.
Call to me when trouble comes;
    I will save you,
    and you will praise me.”
 But God says to the wicked,
    “Why should you recite my commandments?
    Why should you talk about my covenant?
 You refuse to let me correct you;
    you reject my commands.
 You become the friend of every thief you see,
    and you associate with adulterers.
 “You are always ready to speak evil;
    you never hesitate to tell lies.
 You are ready to accuse your own relatives
  and to find fault with them.
 You have done all this, and I have said nothing,
    so you thought that I am like you.
But now I reprimand you
    and make the matter plain to you.  Ps 50:14-21
 
God says,
“For a long time I kept silent;
    I did not answer my people.
But now the time to act has come;
  I cry out like a woman in labor.
I will destroy the hills and mountains
    and dry up the grass and trees.
I will turn the river valleys into deserts
    and dry up the pools of water.
“I will lead my blind people
    by roads they have never traveled.
I will turn their darkness into light
    and make rough country smooth before them.
These are my promises,
    and I will keep them without fail.
 All who trust in idols,
    who call images their gods,
    will be humiliated and disgraced.”  Isa 42:14-17
 
 

The way I see it, Jehovah has an abundance of love about the things he cares about, and actually needs NOTHING from us.
Nothing whatsoever.  
It's like my 18 pet Bantam chickens ... (who I just finished feeding a whole banana split down the middle, a large handful of broccoli, and two giant strawberries, and gave them more commercial chicken feed, and clean water ....).
I want the very best for them, but in reality need NOTHING from them. I am not going to eat the eggs, or the chickens.  They are just fun to watch grow and interact with me and my wife, and each other.   There is no point whatsoever to it ... other than me watch them enjoy their short (about 6 years) life.
Jehovah does not get pouty, and petulant, and get depressed when we do not love him.
... think not about pettiness and pouty .... think Poultry !
It's just like the Sabbath.
The Sabbath regulation was made for mankind .... mankind was NOT made for the Sabbath.
Jehovah will not get his feelings hurt, and start hurling lightning bolts, or go in the corner, and cry because we are not giving him enough adoration.
HE ENCOURAGES ADORATION ONLY BECAUSE IT REPROGRAMS US NOT TO BE SO NASTY AND SELF CENTERED! ( ... with some notable exceptions ...)
Not because He needs adoration !
 
 

Thank you John! 
Yeah, thoughts that circled in my mind about this in recent years, made me to think how God "desperately" need love from creatures He brought to existence - Humans (and Angels).
In case of old Jew, he incorporated, built this in legislative. I wander why. Because, from our present time aspects, perspective and after Jesus' Teachings, all is in free will, free wish, to respect, to serving god "from Love". Idea of Love including Free Choice. Because without such freedom to make decision of that sort/ thing,  seems questionable, to me at least.
 Love is Best, Ultimate, Perfect, Divine state of Soul. That is, i don't know, but i guess, Maximum what we can achieved in lifetime.
For me, God looking for such Love. He needs that Love. What would happened if we don't give Him Love?

The implication that God's happiness depends on men? No, sorry, not my view anywhere as far as I can see. Not intentionally anyway.  
Shame. It seems I don't understand you....and..... you don't understand me.
I will state my view on this matter clearly so there is no mistaken implication.  Jehovah's happiness DOES NOT depend upon men. There. Is that clear enough? So what was the point you were making on this?

Agree!

Rant? Ohh, i like bigger font to see it better, Not to produce noise and loud talking :)))
WTJWORG? That is my amalgam for naming two dominant things, components of your Organization, one is Corporation and another is Religion 
Nature? The type or main characteristic of something
Did i lost you? :)))) 

@Anna (Children with adoptive parents always want to know, or want to search, for their real parents once they come of age).
Oh yes and what problems that has caused my wife and I. I'm stepfather to 4 girls. :( 

I wonder why the Anointed of God, although self admittedly NOT inspired of God, the ones supplying "food at the proper time", etc., seem to be completely devoid of common sense of any kind, on any subject.

Would you want a Surgeon who was equally good at what he does, as the GB is at what they do?
I might consider closing a wound with Vise-Grip pliers, and Duct Tape, instead!

I wonder why the Anointed of God, although self admittedly NOT inspired of God, the ones supplying "food at the proper time", etc., seem to be completely devoid of common sense of any kind, on any subject.
They have been struggling with the CSA problem for YEARS now, and are seemingly no closer to a solution than they were five years ago.
IT'S NOT THAT HARD !!!!!
This is NOT Quantum Chromodynamics!
 

I am adding more here to give the simplest view of what the "Governing Body" believes about those who claim to be anointed.
The most recent article that explains the scripture makes this point by asking a seemingly silly question.
*** ws16 January p. 21 “We Want to Go With You” ***
DO WE NEED TO KNOW THE NAMES OF ALL TODAY WHO ARE ANOINTED?
. . . . This means that the Jew is not just one person but represents the whole group of anointed ones. The other sheep know this, and they serve Jehovah along with that group. They do not need to know the names of every member of that group and follow each one of them.
No one thinks that the truly anointed are ONLY in the Governing Body. However, the only anointed that we are asked to follow cannot practically be ALL the anointed all around the world. In fact we are warned against giving too much attention to "just any" member of the anointed. And, by the same token, any member of the anointed would be out of place to ask for special attention. This might seem wrong, but that is clearly going to help avoid schisms, power struggles, and help drive peace and unity in the congregation.
The article goes on to point this out:
*** ws16 January p. 22 par. 6 “We Want to Go With You” ***
Jehovah’s holy spirit helps his servants to be humble, not proud. (Colossians 3:12) So anointed ones do not think that they are better than others. They know that Jehovah does not necessarily give anointed ones more holy spirit than he gives his other servants. And they do not feel that they can understand Bible truths more deeply than anyone else.
*** ws16 January p. 22 par. 7 “We Want to Go With You” ***
Although anointed ones feel that it is an honor to be invited to go to heaven, they do not expect others to treat them in a special way. .... So an anointed person is not surprised if some do not believe right away that he has been anointed. He realizes that the Bible tells us not to be quick to believe someone who says that God has given him a special responsibility.
*** ws16 January p. 22 par. 8 “We Want to Go With You” ***
Anointed Christians do not feel that they should spend time only with other anointed ones, as if they were members of a club. They do not try to find other anointed ones so that they can talk about being anointed or meet in groups to study the Bible. (Galatians 1:15-17) The congregation would not be united if anointed ones did this. They would be working against the holy spirit, which helps God’s people to have peace and unity.—Read Romans 16:17, 18.
The article actually offers some reasons why we would not immediately trust that someone who claims to be anointed truly is anointed. Ultimately, this all points to reasons to focus our attention on the Governing Body (faithful and discreet slave) as the identified representatives of the anointed.
*** ws16 January pp. 23-25 “We Want to Go With You” ***
DO WE NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE NUMBER?
12 For many years, the number of those who ate the bread and drank the wine at the Memorial kept going down. But recently, that number has been going up every year. Do we need to worry about this? No. Let us see why not.
13 “Jehovah knows those who belong to him.” (2 Timothy 2:19) Unlike Jehovah, the brothers who count the number of people eating the bread and drinking the wine at the Memorial do not know who truly is anointed. So the number includes those who think that they are anointed but are not. For example, some who used to eat the bread and drink the wine later stopped. Others may have mental or emotional problems and believe that they will rule with Christ in heaven. Clearly, we do not know exactly how many anointed ones are left on earth.
. . .  During the last days, Jehovah has continued to choose people who will be part of the 144,000. (See endnote.) So if God decides to choose some of these just before the end, surely we would not doubt that he is doing the right thing. (Isaiah 45:9; Daniel 4:35; read Romans 9:11, 16.) (See endnote.) We must be careful not to react like the workers who complained about the way their master treated those who started working in the last hour.—Read Matthew 20:8-15.
16 Not all who have the hope of living in heaven are part of “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Matthew 24:45-47) Just as in the first century, Jehovah and Jesus today are using a few people to feed, or teach, many. Only a few anointed Christians in the first century were used to write the Christian Greek Scriptures. And today, only a few anointed Christians have the responsibility to give God’s people “food at the proper time.”
Clearly "some of these" claimants are considered truly anointed. But we have no way of knowing who is and who isn't. And even if we did, we would not give them special attention, nor would they give each other special attention, even if they have been known to serve faithfully for long periods of time.
One of the reasons for the emphasis on the Governing Body is so that we can say we have identified the truly anointed persons who can properly represent the other anointed persons, and therefore by following and hanging onto their "robe" we (the other sheep) are properly hanging onto the skirt of the Jew.
I know you, John, don't believe that the GB represent the "Jew" in the Zechariah prophecy, or that they represent "Christ's brothers" in Matthew. But I think you can see why it makes perfect sense to most Witnesses. It makes sense historically in a way that no other religion can point to in their recent past. And it makes sense practically if one accepts the belief that a Governing Body should represent all the rest of the anointed.
I am not claiming that this is the only way to look at it. (For reasons I can explain later.) But I do think we should acknowledge the reasons it makes so much sense to most Witnesses.
Your own arguments against it, I think, boil down to the fact you say that the GB have "allowed" child sexual abuse by not doing enough about it, and that the shunning doctrine is unchristian, and that some (much?) of the provided spiritual food has been not good spiritually. But since you have not been able to discover another anointed person or group that non-anointed should "take hold of," then Witnesses would simply respond with 'where else should they go?' Do you really know a group that represents something better? If it were just a matter of a few who feel this way leaving the JWs, what would that accomplish exactly?