Foreigner

It’s was the foundation set by the early church fathers and the papacy, after the death of the last APOSTLE. In that sense, there is a difference when it comes to deciding, by what authority, scripture should be accepted. Unfortunately, that power struggle still exists today, and the majority of Christians continue a fruitless endeavor, through misinterpretation.
A true debate would entail such “false” applications, as the Trinity, Justified Murder through combat, immorality, Hellfire, literal Kingdom of Heaven, on earth, the Physical return of Christ, etc.
For that, not only do we direct ourselves to scripture, for wisdom? We can also, include those that believe in other religions, and those that honestly believe, GOD is SCIENCE with their interpretation of such wisdom. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Ephesians 5:5.
Ephesians 5 World English Bible (WEB)
5 Be therefore imitators of God, as beloved children. 2 Walk in love, even as Christ also loved you, and gave himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling fragrance. 3 But sexual immorality, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not even be mentioned among you, as becomes saints; 4 nor filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not appropriate; but rather giving of thanks.
The very embodiment of verse 4 that has become the norm in the NAME of ACADEMIA? Where do you go from here? If, only to a path of destruction by GOD’s Standards, NOT the Watchtower’s.
Quotes:
When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. –Dresden James
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease being honest. –Unknown
There are two mistakes one can make along the road to truth–not starting, and not going all the way.–Buddha

Saludos hermano Allen. Creo que soy Allen también. Ha! Ha!

a algunas personas les gusta impresionar a los demás pretendiendo buscar cosas, cuando ni siquiera conocen a las personas que están buscando. https://www.commentarypress.com/
 

Hermano, deja que el incrédulo tenga su día. No vale la pena el tiempo que se imprime. La mentalidad apóstata es lo que el diablo apoya.

No James, it is fake. Fake interpretation of scriptures. Fake F&DS. Fake love. Fake authority. 
Even the number of JW's is now fake. Made up of five year olds, and fake baptisms. 

But if God wiped out the Nation of Israel or at least allowed it to be wiped out, because it didn't meet the mark, then do you think God wants another 'failure' of an organisation ? 
(The Nation of israel didn't fail completely of course as it did its job of bringing forth God's son as a human, but it failed in its service to God)
So, is God going to accept a fake organisation in which people are only interested in saving themselves ?  It's obvious there is not much love in there as it wouldn't be in such a mess. It's obvious that there is dishonesty and lack of understanding of the scriptures. It's obvious too that the Anointed are being mistreated by the GB, and i would say it's obvious that the GB have given themselves a false title of the F&DS. 
Do you honestly believe that God is satisfied with the JW Org as it is ? 

Oh dear Billy is throwing his toys out of his prama gain. 
I have no interest in what worldly governments led by Satan are doing.  The JW Org is supposed to be NO PART OF THE WORLD.... 
My interest is in ordinary people. Mainly working class and lower class people. People that have not got money or power nor a good education, and basically have to do as they are told by secular laws, police, big business bosses, et al. 
Jesus was interested in those people that were down trodden and poor. Those people that were 'walked over' by the religious leaders of the Nation of Israel. 
I see you've given me another title. It must make you feel so grand being able to dish out titles to people. 'Oh yes we'll just put another label on him'... So funny Kid. 
But with all all the worldly info' you spout, it does not detract from the truth about JW Org. JW Org is rigged and it's faulty according to James. I would call it a lot worse, but being polite I'll just say it is, hypocritical and disgusting, and full of lies and false teachings, and run by men that think they are important. 
 
 
 

WT publications shows how JW people have to be obedient to secular law but with exceptions. Disobedience to Secular Law is right way in two cases: If God forbid something or command something different than Secular Law. And second is, if your Conscience told you to do or not to do no matter what is obligated by Secular Law. 
But WT publications going further to explain to their readers how Your Conscience is not trustful, so it is not good to listen conscience which is not trained by Bible. How person training his conscience? By reading Bible. But reading Bible alone is not enough.Quote:  - What does this illustrate? That our private reading of the Bible is not enough. Jehovah, by his spirit, uses the faithful and discreet slave class to help us to understand his Word at the right time. How is this done? - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002883#h=22
Well, take then in consideration main thing in this issue - Listening God and what He say you should doing. But here we have again the same problem. WHO will explain you what God teaching people. Again, you need Class of People aka GBFDS Class who will told you, interpret You, what is God Will for You.
Enjoy.
 In France, for example, people are generally reasonable and fair-minded. However, a few opposers have promoted laws aimed at crippling the Kingdom work. How have Jehovah’s Witnesses there reacted? They have intensified their activity in the field as never before and with thrilling results. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2005925
But how far does this subjection to political authorities go? Is it unlimited? Is obedience to human law even more important than obedience to the law of God? Certainly not! Notice that in the scripture just quoted the “compelling reason” for obedience is said to include “your conscience.” So, one’s conscience is not to be ignored, especially if that conscience has been trained by the Word of God. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101968018
Thus, your conscience is designed to enable you to evaluate situations, make right choices, and judge yourself on the choices you have made. But can you trust it?...So it is wise to listen to your conscience. But it is wiser still to compare all that we do with God’s will as revealed in his Word. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101993489
Because our work was banned, the brothers needed to be alert when witnessing.....We often started conversations with those who did not support the Communist government—the so-called dissidents—who tended to be more open-minded.” - https://wol.jw.org/ase/wol/d/r266/lp-asl/202011198
Every law and statute that is in harmony with righteousness the true Christians will obey in an exemplary fashion. But any law and demand made in conflict with the superior laws and commandments of God they will not obey, for that would mean to render to “Caesar” what belongs to God. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1950841
We obey the government because that is what God wants us to do. But if we are told to do something that God says we should not do, what should we say?— We should say what the apostles said to the high priest: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.” - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102003048
We accept Jehovah’s authority and obey him even if we do not fully understand the reason for some requirement set out in his Word. This is not credulity; it is trust. It reflects heartfelt confidence that Jehovah knows what is good for us.... In accepting Jehovah’s authority, we need to guard against an independent spirit. A haughty attitude can cause us to feel that we do not need guidance from anyone. For example, we might resist counsel given by those taking the lead among God’s people. God has established an arrangement by which a faithful and discreet slave class provides spiritual food at the proper time....14 Accepting Jehovah’s authority involves responding to counsel based on his Word. For example, the faithful and discreet slave class has been admonishing us to “stay awake and keep our senses.”...Spiritual food from the faithful and discreet slave class is disseminated to local congregations by appointed elders. The Bible admonishes us: “Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you.” (Heb. 13:17) Does this mean that congregation elders are infallible? Of course not! God sees their imperfections more clearly than any human can. Still, he expects us to be submissive. Cooperating with the elders, even though they are imperfect, gives evidence that we accept Jehovah’s authority. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008451

The plain and simple answer about your GB is : By their works you will know them. 
And i judge the GB by their works of dishonesty and lies. Their lack of love for victims. Their putting themselves in the place of Jesus Christ. The way that they have silenced the Anointed. Misused scriptures. Lorded it over the congregation.  And given themselves the title of F&DS there by exalting themselves, and we know what the result of that will be. 
We have to judge them, otherwise we would just serve blindly.
Jesus himself judged the Pharisees. The disciples judged Jesus and found him to be the true one to follow. 
You yourself seem to judge the GB as being God's true servants. That is your judgement and your choice. 
In my opinion you allow sin to be overlooked in the GB because you look at it from mans viewpoint. 
But what about God's viewpoint ? How long will He continue putting up with it ? 
You have judged elders also as you said some of them should not be elders. So if it is God's Organisation and if those elders were appointed with God's holy spirit, why do you say they should not be elders ?
Isn't that going against God's holy spirit ? 
 
 

Sometimes the law that we see as just, took unjust routes to fulfill a goal and or agenda that reaps consequences to the people and or nation. Even officials break the law in order to push out justice that is ill and false.
One thing: The Teachings of the Apostles. Should any Christian be it group or a lone soul breaks away from that structure, it, in a sense, breaks them, even when it is in the face of laws of the land.

Was that something about how Jesus gave life for sinners? And for His Friends too?
GB friends are JW members? Are they? But they "sold" them to Russian Government, and now they have Legal Battles about multi millions worth Real Estate that was Confiscated.
2 quotes from JWorg newsroom:
1) Court to Hear Appeal Against Russian Government Seizure of Witnesses’ National Office
2) Philip Brumley, General Counsel for Jehovah’s Witnesses, stated: “Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world are greatly disturbed by the harsh persecution of their fellow believers in Russia. Jehovah’s Witnesses are confronting the same type of repression today as they suffered under the Communist regime.
In 1) we see how WTinc.  is so worried about Material Things, because they are Owners.
In 2) we see nothing about JW Neutrality. Bro Brumley using POLITICAL ETIQUETTE when speaking about Legal Matters and JW members by - quote: Jehovah’s Witnesses are confronting the same type of repression today as they suffered under the Communist regime. How can be that one of top lawyer, in fact General Counsel for JW, who is elder, shepherd, believer, who supposed to be POLITICALLY NEUTRAL, using comparison of late political system with today political system. What COMMUNISM have with JW Church today? What Russia today have with JW Church? What USA have with JW Church? What every and any country with particular political ideology have with JW Church? 
JW Church and followers considers themselves as Separate Organization and Nation far away of any political way of expressions. Brumley's political standpoint in quote is far away of Jesus way how to deal with "politics" and secular governments. Brumley using Political Colors in aspiration to talking bad about Russian Government, Russian Courts, secular Russian People. WHO gave Brumley right to speak about political aspects in one country? Why Brumley using Communism Ideology as HIS EXPLANATION why WTJWorg have PROBLEMS in this country? Why he was not braver and picturing situation with Nazi Germany period of suppressing JW. Hitler has done terrible things to many people.     
Does Brumley consider USA and Western Democracies as Good political system? Because USA Courts not seized WTJWorg Real Estate.... yet.
And what when they do that? Would GB proclaim: Armageddon comes and we have to go to Heaven?

Sometimes ... MANY times ... Justice requires going above and BEYOND the law, without breaking it.
Taking the MORAL high ground often requires losing everything you own, and all your money and assets, and sometimes even your life, in a miserable and degraded manner, in abject and total poverty, as Jesus was the exemplar, and many of his Apostles and disciples  learned.
Remember the Assembly theme "Follow Jesus"?
How'se dat workin' out fer us?

EXACTLY:
Anything ... anything at all ....  that the Elders become aware of that is an actual crime ... as defined by the Secular Authorities ... should be reported to the appropriate  Secular Authorities.
That is the Law of GOD !
In a similar manner, we ALSO should not do our own dental work, and heart surgery.
Deciding for ourselves whether or not it is REQUIRED ... puts Caesar holding the moral high ground, and makes cowards out of us.
FOR MONEY.
We have a greater responsibility to God, the Brotherhood,  and the community we live in, than trying to preserve accumulated piles of money, and magnificent and valuable Real Estate.
We have World Centers in NY, and Embassies all over the world (Branch Offices).
In Cairo, Egypt, the Egyptians tried that with the Pyramids ...
... as they and their civilization turned to ruin and dust.
King Tut .... gave his life for Tourism!
 
Jesus did not even have a rented single room to sleep in, or even one suitcase with a change of clothes. 
Remember the Assembly theme "Follow Jesus"?
How'se dat workin' out fer us?
 

JW WORLD HEADQUARTERS RELOCATION ..mp4  
 

???  I don't know those men, but i know You.  hehehe
Thanks for kind words, BUT what this have with "elders private thoughts on buying milk, going to pick up kid in school", or similar useless NOTES  inside/between other notes about Child molestation cases before Court or before WT elders?
If your elders making such useless notes in investigation or judicial process inside congregation, that would be of no help or benefit for victims,  maybe only for accused one.
When WT elders serves in parallel (illegal) juridical system inside One and Only Legal State Juridical System, that is the problem. It is not "problem" do i know more or less or nothing about US or EU laws.  
WT top lawyers in Warwick should, must know that detail. Elders in WTinc. which is in fact Private Entrepreneurship-Enterprise in the name of God, should to learn how their working specter inside The Church is about spiritual and doctrinal issues of members. Things that are Covered by Secular laws (in this topic that is sex abuse inside WT or any other institution) should be given to Secular authority to handle. 
 
 

Billy, it is true how my English is weak. But please, take it seriously how i do not care if some elder, while he is sitting in serious Judicial Committee chair,  thinking about shopping the milk, planing to go to pick kid in kinder school, or making drawings of flowers on his private paper. If they doing so while discussing serious matters than they must find another job and not be in position of "shepherds".   
You Billy are so funny with this sort of thoughts. But in tragic way. 

“The court ruled that the church had no obligation to warn the congregation that the member had admitted to previously molesting his stepdaughter.”
Um, i wonder what God's thoughts on the matter are though ?  
How exactly is it protecting the children in the congregation or outside by keeping it secret ? 

To put ex-witnesses and opposers in one place seems possible. But you need to be more positive about your "fake brothers". Give chance to those you named "fake" :)))) Love covers all sins. 
Elders and Personal thoughts - memos. Elders are official agents for WT.  They have personal thoughts, for sure. But in standard procedures, judicial investigations and judging, all memos and thoughts are not Personal but Official. In every legal step about members, in every advice, in conversation in back room with two or more elders - nothing is "Personal". Personal is out of Record. One on One. No one else listening our conversation.
All things about molestation inside JW church are not just "personal, private issue". Because of elders reaction, matter comes to be Public issue, Legal issue, Court issue. All elders thoughts put on memos, records, notes about such things are no more "private". All that must be secured and preserve, save for future eventuality.
Other problem with elders handling things is in this, because member on the bench, have no right to make personal notes, to record all conversation, to have own lawyer, or at least the witness on his side in such situations.  

... of course, and WT is also one of the system players with or without implemented secular or non secular laws and procedures and all possible interpretations of that laws, regulations, internal and outside rules.
All that makes them, WTJWorg, as any other Organization. Worldly or Divinely, all failed. And all of them have strong tendency, intention to hide own wrongs. Hide own but to point with finger on other Organizations.
WT publications has many articles about, for example Catholic Church, and child abuse made by priests (not need to mention many emphasized things about "spiritual adultery", revealed by WT, about Roman Church and others churches. What Catholic magazine, or from some other religious org., systematically, for decades "attacks" WTJWorg? I am not reader of any religious publications today. In past i was reading only WT magazines, because it was and it is forbidden by WT to have and to read any other, different religious material that is not published by WT. 

I an glad you expressed that sentiment as your opinion ... therefore I have no objection.
However, if you keep up with published COURT TRANSCRIPTS of testimonies by our "Clergy", under oath before God and man, you will see that not only are Sreko Sostar's observations valid ... but the Society's positions and reasonings have been exposed as duplicitous, and contrary to the principles of justness and fairness, and just plain common decency. 
They have ticked off and ran the patience of many Judges.  
I realize on this forum not many people follow threads that closely, so holding people accountable for not  knowing everything is  unrealistic , and not fair.
Two things you can do to minimize arguments between me and you, and help me to understand your viewpoints more effectively.
1.) When you have opinions, considered or grabbed out of the air, please state them AS your opinions. It keeps me from hyperventilating.
2.) Make your text BIGGER, so I can read it.
Thanks.
JTR
 
 

Excuse me for a moment ! 
WT choose to play by the secular rules when that suites to them, when not, they ask for different treatment and are disobedient to secular authority.  DOUBLE Standards !

Because the Vision of this secular people have Clear Sight on this matter. They using right/correct terminology. WT have hierarchical structure with Clergy, Businessman, Lawyers and Supporters/Members.

What I do find funny John, people think themselves Christians with no Christian ethics in their soul.
What I do find funny Billy is people think themselves Christian just because they serve an Organisation that pretends to serve God. 
A true Christian is one who serves Almighty God through Jesus Christ. 
And what ethics do all those Elders and other JW's have, that commit Child Abuse ? 

I made a mistake ... Billy's point here is VERY relevant.
Morality and Justice NEEDS to trump legal considerations ... or its all just a million words .... written in discarded books that sell on Ebay for collectors of the nostalgic past, and home libraries covered in dust, and eventually eaten by worms.
ALWAYS REPORT CRIMES TO THE POLICE!
ALWAYS!
....don't look for ways to weasel out of Justice.

That is EXACTLY why it is blatantly STUPID .... to label YOURSELF as CLERGY.
It's like deliberately  running into an incoming  shoulder-thrown fist from professionals that needed your cooperation to break your skull
I believe it is time for BillytheKid46 to post something irrelevant and off point now, so I will yield the floor ....

John: The logic of your argument is inescapable ... or at least beyond my abilities to misconstrue.