Foreigner

Um, so, if all are Ministers in the JW Org, then all those that commit the crime of Child Abuse in the Org are Ministers.
So it could rightly be said that JW Ministers commit Child Abuse. Some of those ministers are JW Clergy  
Child Abuse is not funny, but this forum is funny. 
 

This is NOT true ... from the legal sources you yourself quoted earlier ... go back and read your own citations.
Your agenda has clouded your reading comprehension and perception skills.
If we lable OURSELVES Clergy, which the Society HAS DONE .... we are saddled with the law regarding Clergy
In the United States, the government cannot label your religious affiliated people "Clergy" ... separation of Church and State. They cannot even question you about ANY beliefs or labels you GIVE YOURSELVES.
It is the WTB&TS that is claiming CLERGY PRIVILEGE ... not them ( the government) assigning it, which is illegal.

If this is true TTH .... AND IT'S NOT ... Why does the WTB&TS represent themselves in court case after court case .... AS CLERGY ... in order to not have to tell the secrets they are privy to, that in the genuine public interest .... our own ... and outsiders .. there needs to be full disclosure, and reporting as a MORAL imperative ...screw getting a legal exemption, which they salivate and lust for ... crimes to the Civil Authorities?
I did not TRY to say anything other than what I did say.
AS USUAL, your agenda driven thinking caused you to deliberately misunderstand, and attempt diversion and obfuscation.
Theoretically, like us, no Catholic clergy gets a paycheck ... but like us ...  in most cases ....   they get all expenses covered, and never miss a meal, sleep cold, or dress shabbily.
I have done all three WITH a paycheck.
 

Lies and cover-ups ALWAYS lead to MORE lies and MORE coverups ... and there are no exceptions.
We should be proud of EVERYTHING we do, and where we screw up ... fess up, take a beating, and keep on keeping on.
That's how it works with men of integrity, which in the GB, seems to be in short supply....
...if it involves money.
 
 

I think the word is diplomacy. But basically 'if the cap fits wear it'. 
It's letting the congregants know that the Elders are being told.
What's that saying. 'It's not enough that justice is done, but that justice has to be seen to be done'. The congregants need to have some sort of confidence restored it seems. 
Also, as all 'Letters to Elders' are now freely available online, it would be seen as accepting that the Elders have very often been the cause of the suffering of the victims. 
Remember that the JW Org is just like a political party looking for votes. The difference is that the JW Org needs congregants that will pour money into the Org. So it is important for the Org to clean up it's act. This Watchtower is just one way of making it look like the GB are actually doing something positive. 
Does it mention destruction of evidence in this Watchtower. Or does it mention The clergy–penitent privilege, clergy privilege, confessional privilege, priest–penitent privilege, clergyman–communicant privilege, or ecclesiastical privilegeis a rule of evidence that forbids judicial inquiry into certain communications (spoken or otherwise) between clergy and members of their congregation. ??? 
Probably not. 

Since to the best of my knowledge, and please correct me if you have Watchtower guidance SPECIFIC to the question I asked .. it may be obvious TO YOU ... but it is NOT obvious to me ..... from an objective statement of Corporation Policy.
 There IS a difference !

It is answered. And I just answered it too. It's not rocket science James

The question above remains unanswered by the Society .....  so So I guess the GB Helpers would be the College of Cardinals.

it is the same mantra , take advantage of whatever and whomever you can and who cares what it destroy's in the process, thus playing both sides to their own benefit.

I just thought this was SUCH an important question ... it bears repeating!
And just as important ..... who does the Watchtower consider to be Clergy, and who does the Watchtower consider among us NOT to be Clergy.
I am not  an Elder .... can I baptize someone in a municipal pool without getting yanked into "Room 101"?
If I am "Clergy" ... am I going to be a defendant in a criminal trial for conspiracy?

@Anna Quote " In their eyes we are clergy. "
Who is this 'we' ?  Is this the Elders or all JW's ? 
 

But when we are dealing with secular authorities, we have to speak their language. In their eyes we are clergy.
As per Miriam Webster: : Clergy: a group ordained to perform pastoral or sacerdotal functions in a Christian church.
By the same token we do not call our organization a "church", but in secular speak we are a church.
Miriam Webster: Church: a body or organization of religious believers: such as the whole body of Christians.
(and a Kingdom Hall is a also a church (building) in secular speak)

Billy:
You downvoted my last two posts.
Are you mad because you are flat wrong ... or is there something specific about those two posts you can rationally explain where I am wrong?
It's a fair question.
 The key to the whole thing is the WTB&TS claiming the same privileges and titles of the Catholic Church ... which they do in court, time after time, yet claim in the Kingdom Halls that we are NOT clergy.

So here we have two opposing views on the Clergy Privilege laws.  
I'm not into laws and I would presume it is different in different countries anyway, but my idera still stands if it would work.
There is one point that as James said and i've always thought it, the Clergy Privilege law applies one on one, and once a group of people know the circumstances then that law no longer applies. But i will admit to being out of my depth on the subject.  
 

@TrueTomHarley Quote "It is not possible to mishandle what you never attempted to handle in the first place."
Ah is that how they think they can get away with it then ? They listen to the details but don't help. 
But aren't the Elders supposed to be, a rock, or, a sheltering place from the storm ? No ? 
From the news report " According to the lawsuit, Blais, now in her 40s, first spoke out about the alleged abuse when she was 16 years old. She sought help from her parents, another Jehovah’s Witness and an elder — members who act as spiritual leaders in different congregations — but says she was discouraged from reporting the abuse in order to protect the community. "
Now if that is true it helps to confirm what I and many others believe, that Elders and others within the JW Org try to keep it all secret. 
This 16 year old girl needed help but was told to just keep quiet. Was she still being abused at 16 ? Was her father an Elder ?  Presumably it will all come to light in the court case, if such actually happens. 
But one good thing is that it gives opportunity to other victims to speak up now.  
As the report says, it would be very difficult for one individual to take the JW Org / Watchtower soc' to court. The Org would have top lawyers, but one individual could not afford such. So a large group of victims working together makes sense. 
But of course TTH and others still will not agree with any of it. 

Aren't all jws consider ministers? 
 
15. What happens when a person gets baptized? (See also footnote.)
15 Eventually, the Bible student, having developed a love of Jehovah God and a strong faith in the ransom sacrifice, wishes to dedicate himself completely to his heavenly Father. (John 14:1) He makes that dedication in personal prayer and then gets baptized as a public symbol of that private act. His baptism is  his ordination ceremony because that is when he is recognized as a fully dedicated servant, a di·aʹko·nos, of God. He must remain separate from the world. (John 17:16; James 4:4) He has presented his whole self “a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God” without reserve or condition. (Romans 12:1) * He is God’s minister, imitating Christ.
The Watchtower—Study Edition  |  November 15, 2000
 
 
So wouldn't Anna's comment be correct? "we" 

This. This is one of the things I have seen time and time again. There are those of the former faith that will speak up against disgruntled ones who have gone off unhinged in action, and their conquest to be aggressive increasingly i.e. anywhere there is a person of that faith community they purposely go after them relentlessly, even if said person is doing personal things. It tends to go off the rails even further when former ones actually side with their former faith to speak against apostasy, and in doing so, these persons are shamed and or hunted down in the social space, even in public.
Apparently, they care not for who you are or your background because of whom you follow and or what you represent, they feel that attacking is an obligation, they seek to provoke and when or should the provoked do something, the provoker will use that as means to take action and so forth, which is also another problem.
Indeed. The UK also has grooming gangs whereas some know of it's existence, but does not speak of it nor care of it. For me, I to not agree with a lot of what Tommy Robinson has said and or stand for, however, he made this known and the UK government arrested him for it some months back.
It would seem that child pedophilia, when it comes to disgruntled ones, they, the way I see it sometimes, using it as a front to go after those that do not like. The focus should be on abuse taking place everywhere, but not a sole group alone. Another problem is that such sparks vigilantism whereas at some cases, the one who seeks the abuser, or the abuser, or victim succumb to further harm and or problems.
That being said, it is a mixed bag altogether, reasons why many tend to educate, for it is a great tool and or, in this sense, weapon, to use in this mater, be it to prevent a form of abuse and or to deal with a situation if someone is abused, so one wouldn't be left in the dark on what actions to take.
But alas, it is a very very cruel world out there, I would say you think wildfire that is pedophilia, let the people bear witness of what is coming very soon in regards to a specific community.

Still, I’ll put off the verse for as long as I can.
”they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, while they were in need, in tribulation, mistreated;  and the world was not worthy of them. They wandered about in deserts and mountains and caves and dens of the earth.”

I wrote about this video:
At a supposedly confidential 2017 meeting of elders, leaked for Internet perusal by a self-styled freedom fighter—a meeting dealing with the ramifications of child sexual abuse litigation, a Witness representative stated: “Well, we know that the scene of this world is changing, and we know Satan’s coming after us, and he’s going to go for us legally. We can see by the way things are shaping up.” It is not hard to imagine what certain ones are doing with the explanation that “Satan’s coming after us.”
How could he say it? With religion in general, it is the misconduct of leaders that has come home to haunt them. With Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is misconduct of members whose cases allegedly were mishandled. God help us if the members of other faiths are put under the magnifying glass, as with Jehovah’s Witnesses. On the other side of the world, Jehovah’s Witness are banned in Russia for reasons having nothing to do with child sexual abuse—the topic was entirely absent, as government and media partnered to whip the public into a froth, hurling many virulent accusations against the faith—but never that one.
There, it is “professing the superiority of one’s religion.” There it is being Western spies disguised as a religion. There it is blood transfusions, and should a Witness refuse one and thereafter die, the death is invariably attributed to the refusal, with leaders of the faith likened to murderers. Surely, somewhere along the line it should be acknowledged that Jehovah’s Witnesses have absolutely no deaths at all attributed to illicit drug abuse, overdrinking, and tobacco use, save only for when someone is slipping into old habits. All things considered, they are, far and away, the ‘safest’ religion out there. Yet they are said to be the murderers.
Keep in mind that we are speaking of the faith whose members are universally recognized as ‘pacifist,’ who will on no account resort to violence or support war efforts. It is highly unusual for a large group of people to have absolutely no blood on their hands in this regard, but they do not. Is it so crazy for the Witness spokesman to say: “Satan is coming after us?” Given the foregoing, it would be crazy for him not to. One thing that we know about opposers: they will always overplay their hand.

That is true.

This is why Elders are admonished not to interfere with the secular authority's investigation.
So was the video of the brother telling Elders to destroy evidence because 'Satan is coming after the Organisation', true or false ? 

According to court transcripts, and testimony from Witness victims and their families, this is patently UNTRUE, 
Evidence from Australia, to California, to Deleware, to England supports this.
I am not calling you a liar, BillyTheKid46. because I know you believe this to be true.
People have been disfellowshipped, and THREATENED with disfellowshipping for taking such things to secular authorities, for the past 50 years or so that records have been kept.
I don't believe ANYONE at "face value", but I have seen a lifetime of agenda driven attitude that DOES contribute a vast warm  petri dish environment for this.
...and the cover dish is open.

Seems to me that the W/t has said anyone can report anything they want to any authority and not be in trouble for it, yet now it seems Billy is saying 'mind your own business'. Contradiction me thinks. 
If every one just turned the other way and minded their own business then no murderers would be caught, no Peodphiles would be caught, no criminals would be caught at all.
And i personally think that everyone should watch and question the leaders of their faith.  It's a bit like the Police that keep an eye on people, but who is keeping an eye on the Police ? So it is with the GB right down to the Elders. They keep an eye on the congregations, but who keeps an eye on them ? 
Sorry Billy not with you on this one. And if the Watchtower 'had been on top of certain situations' then certain situations would not be costing the JW org / Watchtower so dearly now. Not just in money but in reputation.  
Most of you would have seen the latest news about the Catholic man of 'high standing' and his past deeds. Yet do you ever consider that a member of the GB may have a similar past ?  So easy to condemn people of a different religion, but it must hurt to even consider it of your own religion. 
 

Thanks.
That's certainly not a theme I would agree with. It's inconsistent with the facts. One of the earliest mentions of child sexual abuse was in a 5/15/1970 Watchtower, and there was a previous mention in the 1960's, I forget just where it was now.
I had a feeling that this was case you intended. If you read it carefully, of course, you can see that this was not the case that Brother Knorr got involved with.
During his tenure as president, Brother Knorr became involved in every case where a Bethelite had to be dismissed. The rest of the Bethel family would often hear the reasons why at breakfast, no matter how distasteful. But it was a good reminder that the organization should be kept clean, and that it was good to stay alert to the fact that persons at all levels of responsibility within the organization could become involved in immoral, illegal, and even criminal behavior. This indecent exposure case, however, was not about a Bethelite and we read nothing about N.H.Knorr getting involved.