BillyTheKid46

Wow, complicated huh. So, once upon a time the Board of Directors were the GB. But in 1971 the GB was the Board of directors + other older brothers. However since 2001 the GB and the Board of Directors are two seperate groups of men. 
Now I have more questions. The Watchtower B&T Society is one 'company', whilst the, Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses is a seperate 'company'.  
When exactly did they seperate and why ? 
So who rules over which 'company', GB or Board of Directors, or both ? 
And which of those two 'bodies' GB or B of D has the highest rank / control, over which of the two companies ?
I think the $4000 a day fine situation was because the GB / B of D  were deliberately slowing down court proceedings by sending letters between the W/T and the CCJW, as each has its own legal departments. 
Try comparing that to the 'early Christians'.  Did they have two 'companies' and two legal departments ? 
Jesus didn't even have a bed to call his own. 
It must cost the congregants a fortune in donations  
 

You are right that some of the claims came from former Bethelites, but they were certainly not disgruntled, as far as I know. However, I did add a disclaimer in front of that information, back in the original post. (By the way, I know firsthand about Quackenbush's run-in with Knorr, and I was there when he arrived back at Bethel when Brother Knorr died, and for a time we even sat at the same table.) This information should not be new or surprising to anyone, however. It's not that I think that Covington was in the right, or that he could have had much effect on the Society overall. Olin Moyle, the previous Watchtower attorney, had tried something similar. And it barely registered a blip in the overall history of the Watchtower Society.
Of course, I did add the information for a good reason (in my opinion). There are those here who automatically think that if anyone says anything negative about people at high levels of responsibility, they must be lying. This is one of the reasons that people need to keep their eyes open. Always be optimistic, trust in Jehovah, and expect the best from all our brothers; but also be cautious, and be prepared for anything.

Please remember that before accusing others of foggery and mopery, with mirrors.
... could be worse ... we could both be proctologists for the grossly obese.

Perhaps that was the reason I didn't suggest his book was proof. I think I purposely worded it something like this:
Why would I be speaking of "proof" if my whole point was based on how we nearly always lack proof? As I said a little later in the same post, that I agree with you that nothing is "proven" here. These topics live in a world of conjecture, opinion and sometimes, hopefully: evidence. Even with evidence, there is the hurdle of interpretation to get over. This isn't mathematics, geometry, etc.
There you go again!
Quite an uneven comparison. Should I suppose that's really your answer to how you know for sure Covington had a drinking problem? Because I would be a faithless cynic if I didn't believe he was DF'd for a drinking problem? Faith in who? You? Because your word is as sure as that of the Bible when it speaks about Jesus?
You seem to have no problem being posted here, and you have repeatedly called this an apostate website, too. As long as we are speaking truth to the best of our knowledge, truth shouldn't hurt anyone in the long run. Truth can hurt in the short run. But at least it's always better than falsehood, which is what most of those sites are known for.
I would never believe that, much less say it. You evidently haven't read what I say very carefully.
For someone who has been known here for blatant examples of "projection," did you perhaps just provide an explanation of your lack of care? Not claiming you did, but your imputed motives are often fairly disgusting, and you may have just been hoisted by your own petard! Can't think of another reason at the moment why you have seemed to obsess on unclean thoughts.

It would do well to remember this quote:
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet!"  -  Abraham Lincoln
 
 

Billy is sounding more like a demented pervert every day.
He once was funny but now he seems to be getting desperate and boring. 
However this whole conversation is way off topic but quite funny. 
(Que Admin telling me off) 

going deeper and deeper :))))))

From an Engineer's or Detective's viewpoint, that is a VERY easy question to answer.
Just look at the TRACK RECORD of those who claim they have insight on the divine secrets, and tabulate how may times they have been right ... and how many times they have been wrong.
I does NOT get any simpler than THAT.
 

I gave an upvote here, and everyone knows that I am stingy with them. I don’t think I have ever given a downvote.
My upvote is conditional. I am assuming that little bit of Latin does not translate into “TrueTom is a fink.”

Firstly, you totally missed the point.  A child is finding pleasure in revealing the face of one who is being destroyed.  He has connected the dots, combining pleasure with the image of death.  Who would devise such an activity for a child? Who would create such a sick joke, or jest , on children; God, or Satan?  Jesus, or Satan? 
God is the judge, Satan is the destroyer, not Jesus.  God gives plenty of warning when destruction upon His people is imminent; and for those who refuse to listen, He removes His protection from them, surrendering them to the Destroyer. 
Woe, you destroyer never destroyed, you traitor never betrayed! When you have finished destroying, you will be destroyed. When you have finished betraying, they will betray you.  Isa 33:1
When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.  Exod 12:23
By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.  Heb 11:23
They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer).
Not one of these descriptions refer to Jesus.
2 Thess 1:5-10:  All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people (the anointed faithful remnant) and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.
I don’t own scripture.  I don’t own the Word of God, which is “fire”, and how truth is revealed in the last days.  “Fire” represents God’s word and carries judgment with the sentence of punishment, voiced by Jesus and those whom he “sends”.  Jer 23:29; Matt 13:40-43; Mark 9:37
Satan, however,  will carry out the “destruction”, not God or Christ.  This will happen before Satan is then destroyed.   1 Cor 15:26
Woe, you destroyer never destroyed, you traitor never betrayed! When you have finished destroying, you will be destroyed. When you have finished betraying, they will betray you.  Isa 33:1
Jesus is life.  John 14:6  He does not relish destruction. Don't you remember when he wept over the coming destruction on his people?  He wept!  Luke 19:41-44
 On the other hand, one of your GB members cannot stop talking about death before hundreds, perhaps thousands of children.  Below is only one instance of his fascination with destruction and killing.  I am thinking about a recent talk he gave on WT's version of Armageddon and how "amazing" all of that destruction on mankind would appear.  Anyone amazed by death and suffering has no part in the the spirit of life coming from Christ.  John 15:4; Col 2:18,19; Heb 12:15,16; Rev 8:10,11   
 
 
So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. John 10:7-11
 Your leaders are thieves, preferring the darkness of destruction; while robbing all JWs from the light of life in Christ. 
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.  John 3:18-21
 
 

Quote @TrueTomHarley " Every project needs leadership. Once you grant persons that leadership, you refrain from undercutting them at every step. Why in the world should that be so hard to understand? "
So Tom, did you grant the GB leadership ? Did you make the GB into the 'Faithful and discreet slave' ? 
Being God's true representatives here on Earth is not just any old project. Surely it should never even be compared to worldly projects.
So, yes, some kind of organisation in needed. However you know me and how I go back over things soooo much. So I'm back to that scripture about the 10 men - Jew 
American Standard Version
Zechariah 8:23 (ASV) Thus saith Jehovah of hosts: In those days [it shall come to pass], that ten men shall take hold, out of all the languages of the nations, they shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.   My personal opinion is that the GB are not that 'Jew' .  So i haven't 'granted those persons that leadership'.  And I would suggest that they granted themselves that leadership. You didn't 'vote them in' did you ?     Maybe you should consider what exactly a person is taught when they start having a 'Bible study' with JW's.   I would say that they are not taught the 'workings' of JW Org.  People believe that they will be studying God's word, but in fact they end up studying Man's word from a book, which only losely considers God's word.    Many of the books that have been used as study books are now long gone and would cause embarrassment to 'modern day' JW's. The GB hide this by saying they have 'new light'.     So whereas you may like to say I have mental illness and am infantile, I think I have reasonable thinking ability and at this point I have made a fair to good choice to not be part of the JW Org.    Just a couple of points Tom before i go. To quote you  That does not mean that when I appear on a forum where the majority seek its destruction and level one attack on it after another, I will say “you know, you’ve raise a good point there.”   First point. Do you really think it is the aim of most on here to totally destroy the JW Org  ? 2. Does that then mean that Jesus was seeking the destruction of the Pharisees when he criticized them ? 3. Why  then are you on this forum ? 4. Will you ever say on here, “you know, you’ve raise a good point there.” ?    Have a great day Tom and all of you. 

You were probably the only one to create that assumption from what I said. And I don't actually believe that even you really got that impression from what I said.
Strangely (or perhaps not so strangely) you were the only one to make such a sick and provoking statement out of what I said.

This is really a profound statement.  All JWs should read it.  There is an appropriate way for a parent to relate "horror stories", as is already accomplished in a loving way by responsible parents or in a structured school setting.  Yet, as you brought out, the parent needs to be aware of the story in order to relate it in the right way.    
But...We don't censor "adult" parts of the Bible for our young ones, so why should we "censor" practical warnings of real lurking dangers that could be around them?  
Anyone blatantly magnifying violence and evil before such little ones, is hiding the evil within themselves.    Luke 6:45

Hate to say it, but there are a lot of single parents, especially sisters, who ask for elders/ms to study with their young children for them. And it still ends up as part of the process for making sure a youngster is ready for baptism. The "rule" is to always have a second person along or have the parent sit in. But this doesn't always happen. But it doesn't even raise the slightest concern for most brothers and parents because we trust one another and can't imagine that anything wrong might be going on. So the sister/parent who is supposed to sit in will go off to the kitchen and make dinner or take an important phone call. (Seen it happen personally.) The adult brother (or sister) who was supposed to join the study will cancel at the last minute. (Seen it happen personally.)
But the perpetrators of these crimes end up being people we would trust with our lives, persons we could never imagine doing anything like this. In fact, TRUST and confidence is a necessary part of the equation. This is one of the reasons I don't think any of us should hold back in letting parents and other children know the horror stories that have happened in the next congregation in our circuit, or among persons at some of the highest levels of organizational responsibility. We don't censor "adult" parts of the Bible for our young ones, so why should we "censor" practical warnings of real lurking dangers that could be around them?
I know of no current cases, but you would evidently be surprised at some of the terrible things that have been known to happen. In the past, where the "notoriety" had been thought to be limited to the victim, victim's immediate family, and fellow elders (or fellow circuit overseers, or higher) there have been cases (I now know of two, but wouldn't be surprised at greater numbers) where the perpetrator was simply moved to a place, new circuit, or new country, where that elder was no long in contact with the victim or victim's family. Elders in the new congregation were sometimes not told at all. In fact, the person might have simply risen in the ranks again from circuit to district overseer, for example.
I believe that it is now extremely unlikely for this to happen again.

Well, this Bible example and report of past events show us how his "regime" was "legal" or legal for 16 years. And AFTER 16 years things started to change.
No one in Jew nation made real opposition to king Ahaz, no Judicial Commission, no dfd, no shunning. He continue with bad ruling and evil work. How similar it is to today. Governing Structures continues to work on their own way, even longer than 16 years.     

There ya go Billy!
I KNEW you could do it!
THREE paragraphs ... but all very short!

I have avoided my old habit of fault-finding for quite a while, but this one just brought up the need for some good, old-fashioned nit-picking again. One thing I like to avoid is the use of a scripture that appears so removed from context that we look like proof text cherry-pickers. I know the average householder is not going to notice at all, but it still seems like a stretch to use Jeremiah 29 as an "all encompassing verse." Here's why:
In context, Jeremiah is saying that his fellow Jewish countrymen just have to give in to Babylon (in effect, they must now compromise with Babylon and pray for Babylon and whatever city they end up in) and let themselves be taken willingly to Babylon as captives.  He says that if you allow Babylon to take you, you can try to do the best you can while you are living there and, because the entire Babylonian Empire is only supposed to last for 70 years max, and at least 13 or 14 of those years are already used up. (The 14 years detail is not part of our doctrine, but is clear from the Hebrew of Jeremiah 10:25; 28:17, 29:10, etc.) So, Jeremiah says that you are going to be a long time in Babylon, so if you just give in, by building houses, planting fruit trees, and getting married and having children in Babylon, you might even personally have a chance to come back to this nation, when Babylon's time is up. 
So, in context, Jeremiah is saying that this is a situation where people are lying to you, but if you follow Jehovah's thinking, there is a good solution by compromising with Babylon. But Jehovah's thinking also includes the thought that if you decide to listen to prophets like Hananiah, or decide to defend Israel/Judah, or defend the Temple, or defend the Davidic kingdom, or even listen to certain misguided prophets already in Babylon. For these Jehovah's thinking is as follows:
(Jeremiah 29:1“For this is what Jehovah says to the king sitting on the throne of David and to all the people dwelling in this city, your brothers who have not gone with you into exile, 17 ‘This is what Jehovah of armies says: “Here I am sending against them the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, and I will make them like rotten figs that are so bad they cannot be eaten.”’
18 “‘And I will pursue them with the sword, with famine, and with pestilence, and I will make them an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth, and a curse, and an object of astonishment, something to whistle at, and a reproach among all the nations to which I disperse them, 19 because they have not listened to my words that I sent to them with my servants the prophets,’ declares Jehovah, ‘sending them again and again.’
“‘But you have not listened,’ declares Jehovah.
20 “Therefore, hear the word of Jehovah, all you exiled people, whom I have sent away from Jerusalem to Babylon. 21 This is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, says. . . , ‘Here I am giving them into the hand of King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon, and he will strike them down before your eyes. 22 And what happens to them will become a curse spoken by all the exiles of Judah in Babylon: “May Jehovah make you like Zed·e·kiʹah and like Aʹhab, whom the king of Babylon roasted in the fire!” . . .
“‘“I am the One who knows, and I am a witness,” declares Jehovah.’”
. . . 28 For he [Jeremiah] even sent to us at Babylon, saying: “It will be a long time! Build houses and live in them. Plant gardens and eat their fruit,—”’”’”
In other words this is not an all encompassing verse about how Jehovah is not ready to rake us over, or that he is thinking good thoughts toward us. It's about a specific set of circumstances when he is about to rake a lot of people over, and is thinking to make a curse out of those who won't listen to Jehovah. In this case, Jehovah wanted his people to stop defending Judea and Jerusalem and their Davidic kingdom. He would only protect them if they "compromised" with the enemy and prayed for that enemy, at least until its 70 years was up.
I wouldn't be as nit-picky about your use of Matthew 5:3 because I'm sure we all have the right idea on this one. But there is something to note here:
Very few people know this verse as one that says anything about being conscious of something, especially not conscious of a spiritual need. In Greek, the verse just says, happy are those who are poor in spirit (the same words that would mean  depressed or broken hearted or those with a "broken spirit." Most translations correctly say something like "poor in spirit" which aligns with parallel expressions in context about those who are meek, merciful, or mournful. Our NWT translation is more likely an interpretation rather than a translation here. If it were in an obscure place like Jeremiah it might be different, but a lot of people know the "beatitudes" from the Sermon on the Mount, and this could give them the impression we have changed the Bible to fit our beliefs.
There are plenty of good replacement scriptures, however, which I'm sure you already know.

I think Billy has this thought that if he says something enough times he might just begin to believe it. 
Billy is in love with the GB it seems. He worships them and in his eyes they can do no wrong. 
Well it seems I have to be careful of what i write so best not put my thoughts into words here. 
Just to say that the GB are 8 old men. White American by majority.
I don't think God actually wants a 'ruling class' of one colour from one country. 

But Billy, those 8 men, the GB, are self appointed anointed and calling themselves the 'faithful and discreet slave'.
Come on Billy be fair, I have no idea if anyone on here is of the anointed, but it's quite obvious that the GB are not. By their works you will know them, and the works of the GB are not good. 
 

Ahem

@BillyTheKid46  Are you really using the Romans 13 scripture to mean the GB ? Are you joking ?
The Superior Authorities to whom we pay taxes are worldly governments. Surely even you can understand that ? 
You are proving day by day that you are not a JW.  
The only power the GB have is what they give themselves and what their servants (most JW's) give them.
The GB has no power given by God or Jesus Christ. 

The disciples and many others have been listening. Now Jesus addresses them, warning about the scribes and the Pharisees. Those men have “seated themselves in the seat of Moses” to teach God’s Law. - source jworg
It seems how, after new interpretations on "secular authority", you put yourself on Moses seat :)))) Or you just copy/paste some WT magazine. If yes, tell the source.
According to your new light, donation money from now have new name - taxes?! And for what purpose? For service of those who governing in WTJWORG. Well, I see from this that JW's have PAID CLERGY, according to this understanding of Bible words.
:)))))) very good 
 

Oh dear Billy you have simply lost the plot, or more likely are being blinded by the Devil. 
The Anointed are the 144,000. The scriptures are for the Anointed. Only the Anointed go to heaven to be with God and Christ. 
The Anointed are the body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, Heavenly Jerusalem. 
Everyone else is of the earthly class. Remember that God intends to restore this Earth to a paradise. 
A resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. Well the unrighteous wouldn't be resurrected to heaven would they ? 
I don't pretend to fully understand all scripture and I don't pretend to be Anointed either. 
The time is not yet here for God to fully reveal who the Anointed are otherwise people that were really seeking truth would know who the Anointed are. 
I'm now quite sure that you Billy are not a JW, you are just a wind up merchant. You know nothing of scripture and nothing of truth. 
 

Tell me TTH, what do you regard as genuine ‘apostasy,’ ?
Are you one of those that believes that if a person leaves the JW Org they become a non believer in God ?
What is an apostate in your viewpoint.  It is a person that turns away from a former religion ? Or is it a person that turns away from God ? 

It's great to read some humour from Billy the child, on here. He is sooo funny. For instance and I quote  :-
" The Watchtower reverted to being like the first-century apostles with scriptural understanding. The Watchtower in itself is by far the only organization that is keeping Christ commandments. "
I would really like to know exactly whom Billy means by 'the Watchtower'. He never gives me a straight answer when i ask him.
To me the Watchtower is a magazine. Yes also the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society. 
But, who exactly is Billy referring to when he says "The Watchtower reverted to being like the first-century apostles with scriptural understanding" ? Does Billy mean the GB ? or the Writing Department ? Or whom ?  Who knows.
Anyway this Watchtower society which was formed in 1881 as Zion's Watchtower and renamed in 1896, has made so many blunders that it is completely inadequate for spiritual guidance as it cannot be trusted to provide true facts. It shows itself as not having any guidance from God or by Holy Spirit. 
If Billy wants to serve an idol, 'The Watchtower', that is of course his choice. However, as Srecko mentioned, serving Almighty God through Jesus Christ, is the correct way to do it. 
Billy ends his comment with a belter :-
"  Either you obey Gods laws and commandments, or you don't. It's that simple. How will false religion (false Christendom) accomplish that? "
Um Billy, I think you have such a bad memory or you just cannot bring yourself to acknowledge the failure of that Society / Organisation which you worship. The Watchtower and it's JW Org do not serve God properly and because they are not chosen by God, they cannot supply the 'right food at the proper time'.  Everything they do is guesswork and when they get it wrong they simply guess again, and get it wrong again. 
Scripture 'This generation will by no means pass away.' How many times have they changed the meaning of this one ? 
'The superior authorities'. How many times did they change the meaning of this one and WHY ? 
Billy the proof is there before your eyes. The Watchtower / GB / JW Org / Society, have no idea of truth and are not guided by God or by holy spirit.