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BillyTheKid46

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  1. Haha
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to Anna in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    I understand your points and you have expressed them very well. I will address each point you raised separately, but first I just want to mention a few general things which have perhaps shaped the perception of people like you and me. I grew up in the "truth" in the early 80's when the GB was mostly an anonymous mystery, at least to many who were living outside of America. The "truths" people like me assimilated during those years were turned into dogmatic doctrines by people like me. We always talked starting a phrase with "we KNOW....." as if we could never make a mistake. We had a general attitude of superiority. WE had the truth and therefor WE were somehow better than other people. WE had an answer for "everything".

    And then came the age of the internet. It was a kind of "Internet enlightenment". It had been around for a while before that, but soon everybody had access to it, and was using it. Information that the ordinary person wouldn't have had before, became available to them at the touch of a button. There were things that were "discovered" by the ordinary brother and sister that were there all along, but that were only known by more prominent brothers and sisters, which included those involved with Bethel, but also ordinary brothers and sisters which happened to live closer to the "source" . But now the ordinary brother came to know things that at times "shocked" him, because in their little personal world they had built a picture, but that picture wasn't always correct. As I mentioned, dogmatic opinions on various subjects were formed, which actually were not intended to be understood that way. Here is an example of what I mean; I am sure you know of instances yourself, where a elder giving a talk would  expound on something he felt strongly about. A kind of "pet" subject of his. Most of the time the audience would take what he said as gospel truth, and talk about it like it was fact and part and parcel of "official" teachings. But all it actually was, was the brothers opinion. This happened many times  in the days of only a brief outline of a talk, giving the speaker much freedom to practically say anything he wanted.
    A classic and famous example is that of Charles Sinutko giving the talk about 1975. He wasn't just an elder, but a district overseer, and he gave that misleading talk in front of an audience of thousands. Similar talks were given around the world no doubt. I was too young at the time but @Outta Here remembers such talks, and also the almost "fanatical" approach of some in the congregations. Was this all the GB's doing? It wasn't, but it shows the freedom that existed with regard to expressing ones opinion in an "official" setting, by means of talks etc. As you probably know, now there are strict outlines for talks. Not only that, but elders are instructed to Only give the Bible's advice when serving in a shepherding or judicial capacity, and never give their personal opinions. I am sure this new approach became a necessity because of the damage personal opinions had caused in the past.
    One I want to focus on specifically  is the handling of child abuse. The congregation was well equipped to prevent child abuse on the surface. But it was all contingent on members actually reading and applying what was in the publications that discussed those issues. The JW congregation has always been very strict on upholding moral standards. In comparison, the rest of the world was in a moral decline (think "free love" that started in the 60's) and with it no doubt came problems associated with loose morals. Secular authorities were ill equipped to handle accusations of rape and child sexual abuse, as you yourself can testify.  In this environment Elders were trying to handle something that was disgusting and shocking and should have never occurred in the Christian congregation in the first place! Some Elders got confused and misapplied WT 1973/11/15 "question from readers" regarding the application of 1 Cor 6:1-7, and the interpretation of 1Timothy 5:19.  Many Elders were stuck between a rock and a hard place with regard to reporting to the police because of the way the police handled (or not handled) these cases, and because many victims and their families did not want to report to the police. It was almost like an attitude of: "this is our private problem, and we will handle it as our private problem". 
    Finally today, secular authorities are educated and equipped enough to address these issues properly, and I would say we are at the pinnacle of "enlightenment" with regard to CSA, at least in the western world. Victims are at last able to come forward and be heard. Abusers are being tried and punished. This has also spilled into historic sexual abuse of women as in the #metoo brigade. BUT despite all this, CSA and the abuse of women is as rampant as ever unfortunately....

    You have a good heart John and I feel you have unnecessarily thrown the baby out with the bathwater.
    But I do want to address those issues individually that you mentioned, but I will have to do that tomorrow now as I am running out of time and have to go and cook dinner....
     
  2. Haha
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to Kosonen in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    The GB are so similar to the religious leaders in Jesus' time. And they were responsible for the spiritual feeding in the Synagogues and at the Temple. But John the Baptist and Jesus told the people what was wrong in their teaching and behavior. But the religious leaders, the High Priest, the Pharisees, the Saddusees, the scribes etc. refused to repent and correct their ways. And became seriously guilty.
    Many anointed brothers and sisters have written letters to the GB and tried to correct them, but until now they do not listen. Will they ever listen and repent? Or will they follow the course of the religious leaders of Jesus' time? We will see.
  3. Haha
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to JOHN BUTLER in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    "When we find ourselves making explicit demands,"  That's Your words Kid.....  So what are you burbling about ? Have you been drinking or are you on tablets that upset your mind ?  Get well soon Kid. 
  4. Like
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to Thinking in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    Lol...well I probably am a misfit...I smiled at that..but I think I will still follow Joshua’s and Kalebs example....they would have hated to see what Aaron was doing with the Golden calf...I’m sure they would have stood apart mentally and spiritually  from that...but they didn’t leave the camp....they showed great faith that Moses would come back...and I’m sure many were very confused at that time....I too will wait for Jesus to come down from the mountain....and correct his people...
    I remember a number of personal accounts of sisters and brothers being put into German  concentration camps...they would often get taunted by their captors because those in leadership at that time...COs and Elders and even those in authority of the branch office betrayed them.....and those little sisters of no account and probably viewed as insignificant in the cong ...said.....”they may do as they wish..but for me...I will remain loyal to my God”
    So this little old misfit will do the same....:).....along with many many others who will stand firm and loyal to their God and Christ....You have underestimated so many of us...
    .
     
  5. Haha
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to Witness in At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?   
    It just isn't that easy to do in the organization.  According to your leaders, it is necessary to dedicate oneself to the organization.  Otherwise, anyone could get baptized anywhere....like the Ethiopian who was baptized by Philip.    
    You bear the identifying “mark” of this “spirit-directed organization”.  Where does this leave God , who demands exclusive devotion?  Can you serve two Masters?  Matt 6:24 ; Deut 6:4-8; Rev 13:1,4,7,11, 15-17
    “Have you dedicated your life to Jehovah and symbolized your dedication by water baptism? If so, that is wonderful! Recall that on your baptism day, before eyewitnesses, you were asked whether you had dedicated yourself to Jehovah and understood that “your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization.” Your affirmative answers served as a public declaration of your unreserved dedication and showed that you were qualified for baptism as an ordained minister of Jehovah. You must have made Jehovah very happy!”  W17/4/ pp. 3-8
    It is quite important that JWs keep in mind their promise to serve the organization. The phrase was already italicized; I marked it in bold.  
    The title of this WT is very telling – “What you Vow, Pay.“  The introductory scripture of the article is Matt 5:33
    “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 
    However, the GB did not provide a way for you to investigate what Jesus said next. 
    34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
    Doesn’t it appear that the organization is going beyond what Jesus words have indicated?  ANYTHING written as a command beyond his words, comes from the evil one.
    Jesus’ command:  Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matt 28:19,20
    Questions for baptism in the organization:
    "The first question is:
    On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will? 
     Wt 18/3 pp 3-7 and WT 1985,6/1 p. 30

    The second is:
    Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism."  WT 18/3 pp. 3-7
    They have certainly gone beyond Jesus' words by making a point that you identify yourself with the organization.  Where does it say in the scriptures that the "right heart condition"  depends on a dedication to an earthly organization?  Why don’t they mention one’s dedication to Jesus Christ?  Why would one’s dedication to the organization be more important than serving God AND Christ.  They are one in Spirit.   Why didn't they follow Christ's command?   John 17:22    "anything beyond this comes from the evil one".  
    "Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations."  Matt 12:18
    The Watchtower leaders take more delight in “Jehovah’s organization” than in God’s Son. (they preach a different Jesus 2 Cor 11:4) They take more delight in their self-made commands, than those of Jesus Christ. Are you to tolerate this?  As John brought out, Jesus didn't tolerate the lies of the Pharisees.  In fact, Jesus said,
    “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”    Luke 13:34,35
    God doesn't fix lies and sin.  He warns us of the lies that may come against us by wolves in sheep's clothing, and to reject them, not tolerate them.  Jer 5:31; Matt 7:20
    I really hope you can see this.
    “I JEHOVAH your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion.” Thus Jehovah God calls attention to the fact that he tolerates no rivals. Devotees of pagan religions may have a pantheon, but not those worshiping the unique God Jehovah.—Ex. 20:5, NW.   WT 58/1/1 p.30
    Indeed, God has a rival.  It is the Watchtower organization.
    Those who remain loyal to Jehovah’s organization take the view the apostles did when many of Jesus’ disciples stopped following him. Peter expressed their feelings by saying: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.” (John 6:68) The loyal “sheep” see that the way to life is with Jehovah’s faithful organization.  w62 12/15 pp. 758-763
    Oh my.  Since when did the way to life divert from Christ, and point to“Jehovah’s organization”? Since a mere hundred years ago or so.   WT 62 12/15 pp. 758-763  
    You sound so troubled, somewhat of a misfit JW.  Matt 11:28   There is more peace of mind on the other side of the wall of lies, than within such darkness.  Ezek 13:10-16
    Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.  We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”  John 6:68,69
  6. Upvote
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to Space Merchant in What Happens When A Couple of the Opposite Sex Are Alone?   
    It has always spread to other social media sites and on YouTube. I remember a Catholic guy sat down with a JW to speak, a peaceful discussion, however because JW was in the title, everyone who followed Cedars, Gardner, FS and a list of others bombarded the comment section, resulting in the video going private. Another situation is elsewhere during a discussion, they pop up there also, as seen on this link. 
    One can agree/disagree with someone, but to go as far as to incite hatred or infighting is a whole other level.
    As for that book, people do not understand that God knows who is for him and who is not. They watered down what God will do and confuse his Justice. People do not know that if it things is going to be as bad as Noah's Day, as bad as Sodom and Gormorrah, it will happen. In a sense, they sort of Disney-fied God and Jesus, for Disney is known for taking messed up and brutal stories and making it kid friendly, one cannot do this with the Bible, for over time people will need to learn of what is to come and anyone who takes up the Word of God and his Christ will be saved.
    I had a discussion with someone else here, who watered down what Jesus would do to the wicked, for if the Son of the True God does the Will of the Father and cannot do a single thing unless the Father tells him, he will do it. God himself said he will get rid of the wicked and will indeed do so through his chosen Christ, his Son, Jesus. But this simple truth they do not want to accept when the Bible even tells them that.
  7. Haha
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to JOHN BUTLER in What Happens When A Couple of the Opposite Sex Are Alone?   
    Yes  Ephesians Ch 5 is most interesting. As is verse 1 of chapter 1 which reads:-
    1  Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, to the holy ones who are in Ephʹe·susa and are faithful in union with Christ Jesus:
    We note it is to the Holy Ones. Not the earthly class.
    Chapter 5. v1 says : as beloved children, The children of God are the Earthly class.
    However v 6 says : 6  Let no man deceive you with empty words, for because of such things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience. 
    The sons are the Anointed that receive the inheritance. So are the 'sons' of disobedience the Anointed that do not serve God properly ? 
    As for your final sentence, you choose how you accept them. 
  8. Like
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to Space Merchant in What Happens When A Couple of the Opposite Sex Are Alone?   
    @BillyTheKid46 The thing here is people out there are doing research and they understand how the ruling is for your faith community. But it seems although the Jehovah's Witnesses are not immune to the problems of abuses just as many, even us Unitarians of all denominations are not immune to it either, the actions of one does not define the masses, but sadly people believe this. In my case, not only am I a Biblical Unitarian, but I am someone of color and regardless of what someone does or says, they define me as a criminal, granted with what I had to deal with the other day, as with many in this community.
    There will always be hate, and there will always be someone, even former ones of your own who are disgruntled to the point that they believe anything another former member says and believes it, as I told someone else and Butler before, the ones they adhere to believe that you JWs got a whole weapon bunker and poisons under your church, which is untrue, they tend to attack you for the whole blood issue, not realizing that even other Christians share that same view and this view applies to several groups of people due to their culture, etc.
    But is is crazy how people tend to be close minded when the whole world has problems, not just solely a group, and these problems affect everyone.
    That being said, if you have a group of disgruntled ones who are willing to break law and or attack other religions and their own to take out one religious group, that is seen as a problem and a concern.
    One of the very reasons I am grateful that I studied all faiths to understand where they are coming from and their rules and beliefs.
  9. Like
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to JOHN BUTLER in The Trinity and Bible Proofs that Jesus Christ is God   
    This is all good stuff but it proves to me that God only gives the right information, through Holy spirit, to those whom He chooses. Hence for everyone to read the bible does not always prove good. Even those that study Theology don't get it right all the time.. 
    We know of course that The Word / Jesus, was created by God the Father. Jesus made it so clear on many occasions. Such as saying :-
    The Father is greater than i am...  And at Mark 13 v 32 
    “Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father."  
  10. Upvote
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to Space Merchant in The Trinity and Bible Proofs that Jesus Christ is God   
    @Jesus.defender Most of the stuff you said is a repeat from last time, Deserter and it has been confuted before and will always be confuted.
    God cannot be his own mediator, for this role is for Jesus to the men he made the covenant with and on to the people of that same spiritual house.
    God isn't a like a man or a son of man, or as Job puts it, he isn't men like us.
    You cannot use Thomas either because Thomas was present when Martha spoke Jesus and Thomas was also there at Pentecost. When Jesus had risen, it was regarding seeing and believing - as to which you have been corrected on before and the final verse Jesus refereed to himself as God's Son.
    And lastly, Jesus professed, even affirmed Shema Yisrael.
    Your resolve holds no water, Deserter , as it has been before, to now and onward, nothing more than an imitation of the so called Christian known as Bob the Builder, therefore, the Trinity - is unbiblical and Scripturally unsound.
  11. Like
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to Space Merchant in ‘Would robot sex count as infidelity?   
    @BillyTheKid46 Agreed. Other than that there is a whole lot more things out there, some things that cannot be said, so I am trying to keep it on a PG-13 level.
    Now as for you guys, as with all of us, when such things start to spill over on to the people, in the schools and churches, it cannot be prevented and or contained 100% for the intent of a man who does man is not as easily recognized to the general people of the community, on the other side of the spectrum, there are even more darker things going about in the world, and in my case, I can tell you, among the things I heard and witnessed, the ruler of this world is obvious, and to all of us, we have to be careful, for how this world caters to people, ill desires, some among them will find targets, victims, take advantage of the rules and regulations in institutions in order to do so,furthermore, it turns anyone who is on the side of the one who is targeted into an avenger of blood, so to speak, which was the case with several folks who took the law in their own hands.
  12. Downvote
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to JOHN BUTLER in ‘Would robot sex count as infidelity?   
    @BillyTheKid46 The reality, activism plays little to no role in the decision with governments and is evident.
    Um really ? 
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/26/mps-demand-action-over-jehovahs-witness-abuse-allegations
    https://nltimes.nl/2018/05/02/nearly-300-reports-sexual-abuse-among-dutch-jehovahs-witnesses
    https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2018/08/protest-highlights-abuse-and-cover-ups-among-jehovahs-witnesses
    Although i didn't really agree with the London protest, it still got the info' out there to the public and to the JW's that had been hidden from it all. 
    More organisations putting on more pressure will get the message out there more, that is obvious.
    And more pressure on governments and authorities will get things done.
    Remind me of a scripture about a man knocking on his neighbours door at midnight, asking for bread to feed to a visitor. 
    I think it was Jesus said, it wasn't that the other man wanted to get out of bed but the continuous knocking on his door moved him to action.
    Yet another scripture about a woman that kept going to a judge and asking for justice. in the end the judge heard her case.
    Keep knocking, and believe me the protesters will keep knocking and gaining support Earthwide. 
    I think you are a sad person Kid, and I do have concerns about which side you are on regarding Child Abuse. Do you support the Victims or the abusers ?  Very worrying indeed.  
  13. Like
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to Space Merchant in ‘Would robot sex count as infidelity?   
    The Mystery of the Gospel Revealed (1-13), right?
    In outline format it being:
    Sacred secret to include Gentiles (1-13) Gentiles joint heirs with the Christ (6) God’s eternal purpose (11) The Ephesians to gain insight through prayer (14-21)  
    Non-Jews are Gentiles. His link isn't bad when you understanding what he is conveying - granted this is an Epistle to the Ephesians.
    The change of spiritual position of Gentiles as a result of the work of Christ, moreover, with the account telling an apostle to the Gentiles, in the hope that this will keep them from being dispirited and lead him to pray for them. It is agreed by most the main focus regarding the Ephesians is in response to the newly converted Jews who often separated themselves from their non-Jew, Gentile, counterparts, their brethren. The union of the apostolic church, especially between Jews and Gentiles who are believers, is the primary focus of the book/epistle. Of which we can see examples from 2:5, 6, 15, 16 22, 4:4-6, something of which is also noted in also the Epistle of Philippians.
  14. Confused
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to Kosonen in Time, Times, Half A Time   
    When is the prophecy about time, times and half a time really taking place? The WT organization has taught it happened 1914-1918. But many non-jw christian groups put that time into the final tribulation period right before Jesus' return. 
    What is your opinion?
    When I read carefully Daniel 7 I saw where that 3 and half year should be placed. Look here and judge for yourselves:
     “This is what he said: ‘As for the fourth beast, there is a fourth kingdom that will come to be on the earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms, and it will devour all the earth and will trample it down and crush it.+ 24  As for the ten horns, ten kings will rise up out of that kingdom; and still another one will rise up after them, and he will be different from the first ones, and he will humiliate three kings.+ 25  He will speak words against the Most High,+ and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.*+26  But the Court sat, and they took away his rulership, in order to annihilate him and to destroy him completely.+27  “‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One.+ Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,+and all rulerships will serve and obey them.’28  “This is the end of the matter.
    The fourth beast represented in the begining the Roman empire. Then that beast continued its existence through kindoms that emerged within the Roman empire. That is what the 10 horns represent. Those kingdoms are for example Italy, France, Spain, Portugal, UK. And the prophecy tells that after the 10 horns emerges an eleventh horn, a final horn. And that should be about USA. And because the prophecy specificaly speaks about the eleventh horn as "He" it shoud be about a specific king/president of that beast. And the prophecy says that just before the complete destruction of this beast, the final horn will for time, times and half a time, that is 3 1/2 years continually harass the holy ones.
    Is it not clear that WT is totally wrong when they put this time to 1914-1918?
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1994567#h=1:0-15:69
    The true time for the 3 1/2 years must then be a head of us and could begin very soon. This time period can not be in the past, because right after the 3 1/2 years that beast is completely destroyed. 
    But the last 3 1/2 years will be tough.
  15. Confused
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to Kosonen in Time, Times, Half A Time   
    What event will mark the begining of the 3 1/2 times/years?

    By connecting Daniel 7:25 with Daniel 11: 30 and Daniel 12:7 we can see what it is:

    Daniek11:31 And arms* will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary,+ the fortress, and remove the constant feature.*+
    “And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.+

    Daniel 12:7 “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time.[1260 days] As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end,+ all these things will come to their finish.”

    We see that the persecution of the holy people mark the begining of the 3 1/2 times/1260 days. But what happens 30 days later at day 1290 is not clear. 

    Daniel 12:11 “And from the time that the constant feature*+ has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place,+ there will be 1,290 days.

    And how fast will all the aspects of Daniel 11:31 take place? The profanation of the sanctuary and the fortress, and the removal of the constant feature and the putting in place the disgusting thing?
    Will it be done all in one day suddenly? Or will it be done through courts like in Russia when the WT organization was liquidated and it took some time? May be that make the 30 day difference? 

    What is represented by the sanctuary, the fortress and the constant feature? And what is the disgusting thing causing desolation?

    WT online library defines how sanctuary is used in the Bible and that gives us some guidelines:
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003828
    A place set apart for the worship of God or of gods, a holy place; a divine habitation. (1Ch 22:19; Isa 16:12; Eze 28:18; Am 7:9, 13) .....
    However, frequently the expression “sanctuary” designates either the tabernacle (Ex 25:8, 9) or the temple at Jerusalem. (1Ch 28:10; 2Ch 36:17; Eze 24:21) As applied to the tabernacle, “sanctuary” could mean the entire tent and its courtyard (Ex 25:8, 9; Le 21:12, 23), the furniture and utensils of the sanctuary (Nu 10:21; compare Nu 3:30, 31), or it could refer to the Most Holy (Le 16:16, 17, 20, 33).

    So a modern day equivanent of the fortress for Jehovah's witnesses should be the Warwick complex and the sanctuary the actual place of worship inside this complex.
    And the constant feature could well symbolize the constant spiritual food that is coming from Warwick. 

    And the disgusting thing should be closely connected to the blasphemous beast of Revelation 13. And the reason why this beast must be connected to this event is that this beast is said to persecute those who will not worship it and that it will persecute during 42 months. That again equals to time, times and half a time or 1260 days.

    The begining of the 1260 days should be now very close. It will halt the WT organization. The constant feature, the spiritual food will not come anymore from there. 

    And according to Revelation 13 there must just prior to that happen a fatal sword-stroke to one of the heads of the wild beast. And the healing of that head.
  16. Haha
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Time, Times, Half A Time   
    My opinion is like everyone ELSE'S opinion ... except that I cannot make a living, eat well, sleep warm, and fly first class for MY opinion ... nor would I want to.
    Opinions are .... to paraphrase ... like "body orifices".  Everyone has, and is entitled, to at least five .... depending on your opinions of how they are counted.  Should belly-buttons (navels) be counted as orifices?  I think not.  Opinions vary.
    Let's say you are 100% right ....... or wrong ....... about this " time, times, and half a time" matter.
    How will that have any effect on reality?
    In the 5th or 7th grade I was told that in Medieval Europe, people used to discuss "forever", how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. 
    How is this any different?
    Even if we knew incoming Russian Ballistic Missiles were coming next week, details make all the difference.
    About the time, and times ... NO ONE has the slightest clue.
    NO ONE.
    And there is nothing anyone can do about it if they did .... except donate LOTS of money to the pretenders.
     
  17. Haha
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to Kosonen in Time, Times, Half A Time   
    During the 1260 days/42months our faith and obedience to God will be tested by the beast of Revelation 13. 
    Government will try to get everyone worship the beast and its image and to take the mark of the beast. Unlike the Christian peaker in the video below who believes Christians will be raptured before it happens, I believe we will have to cope with the persecution. And if possible flee to a rural area and manage to survive off grid. 
    But otherwise he did a good job presenting the technology that already exist to fulfill the prophecies in Revelation 13.
    From 18:00 he starts to speak specificaly about the Mark of the Beast.
     
  18. Haha
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to JW Insider in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    I for one, thank you for sticking around for this discussion. Yes, I remember how unfair it seemed that someone started a thread with your name in it, just to make it clear that they didn't trust your own stated reasons. But, of course, forums are full of opinions sprinkled with a few facts sometimes, but just to bolster opinions. People rightly treat most of this like YouTube comments, or some other "worst" example of the way people's opinions can cloud out anything useful. But I stll think that what you have provided here is a first hand experience (prior to JW association) and a subsequent reaction to WTS policies that is very important for most of us to reflect on, even if it's different from the way most of think we would react.
  19. Haha
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    I've just watched a video link of Bro Jackson being 'sworn in' at the Australian Royal Commision and he swore on the Bible.
    I've always thought that JW's should not swear on God's word the Bible. I thought there was a scripture that says not to swear on anything, but to let our own Yes or No mean Yes or  No..........  Matthew 5 33 - 37 
    And I'm sure somewhere in his statements he says that the GB might not be the 'only' channel God is using. 
    So, I'm wondering how much his words or opinions can be trusted. 
      33  “Again you heard that it was said to those of ancient times: ‘You must not swear without performing, but you must pay your vows to Jehovah.’34  However, I say to you: Do not swear at all,c neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35  nor by earth, for it is the footstool of his feet;d nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.e 36  Do not swear by your head, since you cannot turn one hair white or black. 37  Just let your word ‘Yes’ mean yes, your ‘No,’ no, for what goes beyond these is from the wicked 
  20. Like
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to TrueTomHarley in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    The presumption of innocence until guilt is proven by two or three witnesses finds its roots in religion.
    Ones who reverse it to ‘guilty until proven innocent’ are typically of the left and the left is typically atheistic, or at least irreligious. Sometimes I wonder whether their disdain for traditional measures of proof is a manifestation of their rejection of religion.
  21. Like
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to Evacuated in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Not sure I understand your question fully. I do not justify calling the police where there is no provision for proper handling of child abuse allegations.
    I agree that mandatory required reporting to secular authorities would shift the burden from individual decision to standard process. This is the best case scenario. Until that happens, then the reporter, unless fully trained in the professional handling of child abuse cases , HAS to seek advice. By "professional handling" I mean fully aware of the physical and psychological aspects for the victim, AND the specific, local legal requirements.
    The NSPCC which, in the UK , invites confidential disclosure of such matters will involve secular authorities "if necessary". To that end they are empowered to apply for care and supervision orders for children at risk. This means they are equipped to make "assessments". They seem to act as a buffer zone between the victim, those involved, and the rather heavier hand of the law 
    Parents at all times have the right to involve the police regardless of evidence/witnesses etc if their child is alleging abuse. This becomes highly problematic if the abuser is part of the family.They can also call the NSPCC.
    If elders become aware of such allegations, there are complex issues involved. The immediate physical and psychological safety of the victim, the local legal responsibilities, confidentiality issues, spiritual/judicial aspects. Unless they are fully trained in the professional handling of child abuse cases, they will HAVE to seek advice. Who from?  Some one fully cognizant in the professional handling of child abuse cases. If who they call is not, then a can of worms is opened and , voila, today's scenarios with organisational reputation too high on the list of priorities.
  22. Confused
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to JW Insider in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    The vast majority of Witnesses have the expectation that the WTS will always try to do what is right, no matter what the topic. But like all institutions, reputation is paramount. The WTS is full of people who want to enhance the reputation of the WTS. This is a problem, but also natural --almost expected-- if we are also sure that we have the most life-saving message, and that this message will likely be rejected if our reputation is sullied. A college or sports organization will be just as guilty of protecting their reputation through maneuvering, or even more so, when the motive is as mundane as staying in business.
    We've been through these ideas before, but it's quite possible that TTH is correct in assuming that the WTS/JWs have made great strides in protecting young ones from abuse. I notice that the media has tended to move from "Catholics only" to "Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses." But part of that perception is the fact that we Witnesses have our ears "tuned" to listen to anything the media says about JWs. We will sometimes think we are being bashed when we are actually being treated fairly, just because we perceive we are being ganged up on. It could just as easily be true that only a small percent of our own sexual abuse issues make the news, but the exposure of Catholic clergy and institutions has made Catholics might be highly overexposed by the media.
    I was Googling, "Barbara Anderson" and also picked up a short booklet on Amazon that she had written (or it looks like someone wrote for her). But I noticed that she has also said that the problem is not something for which the media should focus on just Catholics and JWs. I found a quote where she said that Billy Graham's son, a well-known Protestant preacher, said that the problem of child sexual abuse is greater in the Protestant religions, especially the mega-churches. I noticed that some Catholics in Australia had no problem finding numbers from the "Commission" (ARC) that proved that the problem among JWs and another set of religions was shown to be much bigger among these non-Catholic religions. 
    But another couple quotes from Barbara Anderson also said something about seeing a court document, not shared publicly, that could explain why the "GB should keep so much info . . . all to themselves." For one thing she says that many of these cases involve incest and an exposure of the names of either victims or perpetrators when combined with the crime could bring another level of public hurt upon the victim. Also I saw a quote from her that said that it really was true that quite a number of persons for which the WTS admitted that their pedophile status was known was through our prison outreach program. When persons locked up for child sexual abuse are baptized and then released, or released and then baptized, this inflates the number of persons listed in the WTS records even if they have not ever been known to commit a sexual abuse crime after leaving becoming a JW.
    Another point that I sensed from combining a few ideas she wrote about is this. The WTS lists contain a wide range of abuse crimes, and some of them truly are those from which a sensible person would not think right to expose to the court and law enforcement (risking also the leaks to the media). A 17 year old, for example, might have done things in high school that have truly not been a problem for the last 40 years. Of course these same lists have been shown now to have contained heinous crimes that were covered up and should obviously be exposed to law enforcement. But starting this process creates a slippery slope to a decision-making process where the WTS can't trust itself to always "redact" correctly, and the WTS has never trusted the world to handle anything correctly, especially where it relates to protecting their own reputation. So, it's the old dilemmas: "between a rock and a hard place" / "between the Devil and the deep blue sea" / "between the Pharoah and the deep Red Sea."
    This is probably true. Even here no system is without potential loopholes in justice. But it's back to the idea that the WTS would potentially give up control of its reputation to "the world." In these cases its something that should absolutely be done. It's not perfect, but it's much better, and a culture in which this is expected will result in a much better sense among all of us that it should have been done this way all along. I referenced a website which TTH has quoted from, and noticed that the general point of this entire website is that reporting ALL accusations is a culture change that all institutions need to begin, religious and non-religious.
  23. Haha
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Wow, True Tom and Billy doing their bit to pretend the JW Org / Watchtower are so so good and pure. Well done boys, good acting. 
    But it still comes back to Collateral damage. So i can only presume it has never happened to you and you have no idea what sexual abuse, or emotional abuse, or physical abuse is like.  
    It seems the Australian JW org had records going back 50 years. And the GB / legal departments in USA have records going back at least 20 years containing thousands of accusations. Did they do it for 'kicks' ?  Keeping these records / documents /files, to read and get high on ?  Strange that the GB should keep so much info' but keep it all to themselves. 
    Of course Victims are angry. I'm still angry at what happened to me, though it wasn't in the Org. It has ruined my life, so i can understand it has ruined the lives of thousands of others. Not only does it ruin the lives of Victims, it ruins the lives of families. And not only that but in the JW Org it has killed thousands spiritually, hence i say 'Offering Children to Molech'. 
    But to your guys it's just collateral damage. Why should a few thousand suffers matter to you when your 8.5 million JW Org is still functioning ok. 
    ' yielding to the instinct to not air dirty laundry'.  Is that what they are Tom, the Victims. Just 'dirty laundry'.  And you call yourself a Christian 
  24. Haha
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Are JWs allowed to get Platelet-rich plasma?   
    Billy:
    Your writing style has changed dramatically.
    Did a committee write that for you?
  25. Confused
    BillyTheKid46 reacted to JOHN BUTLER in My favorite book was just pulled from the WT Library   
    I can't imagine someone as nice as you ever being outraged Tom. 
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