JOHN BUTLER

Yep, and your 'enlightened ones' are 'supposed' to be guided by God's Holy Spirit. 

I think the GB are having a laugh at other people's expense. 

But doesn't it make the JW Org look stupid ?

Well maybe I should say, doesn't it show the GB and the JW Org for what it really is, stupid.

Oh dear what a way to waste time. You lot must have more spare time than me  but I'm retired.

This stupid conversation leaves behind all the serious problems within the JW Org. 

Maybe that is people's plan though.

Whilst i have a good laugh at all you so called intelligent folks talking such rubbish, i still think on more important matters. 

I hope you are all having a good day, as long as you are not hurting others. 

Someone please start a sensible topic for or against the GB  / JW Org. 

Meanwhile I'll go on my ebay page whilst listening to Joe Cocker.  

I wonder if shunning people for no good reason is rude ? 

I wonder if Elders lording it over the congregation is rude ? 

I wonder if the GB saying it was apostate lies, when they were questioned about Child Abuse, was rude ?

The rudeness is more on the inside of JW Org than outside. 

Remember Jesus' words about the Pharisees 'cleaning the outside of the bowl or dish' but not cleaning the inside. 

Well that is how the GB run the JW Org. The rudeness is kept hidden on the inside. 

As for anyone giving threats of death, they obviously have no true faith in God at all. 

Sometimes, as an imperfect human, I have hate in my heart for certain people, but I would not want them to suffer physical pain or death at the hands of other humans.

My hope is that God or Jesus Christ will deal with all people at Judgement Day. 

It might be possible that God will protect a person is He wants to, but as for God protecting JW's as a group then no way.

I knew an older 'brother' whose wife died because she refused to have a blood transfusion. He was very upset at his loss.

Then a few years later the same older brother's son died whilst riding a motorbike home from a JW assembly. 

The dear old brother was at a total loss. Probably for comfort, i don't know, but the old brother remarried. She was a 'lady of colour' from America, a nice friendly lady. But the marriage didn't last long. 

The old brother's other son who had been a ministerial servant, left the JW Org under strange circumstances it seems. I always wanted to go visit that young lad but was basically told not to, and as I don't know his exact address then I could not go there alone.

So that is one poor old brother that lost his first wife, his oldest son, and his younger son, so I've been told, has had a nervous breakdown. 

Only his daughter remain as a JW.................  So it seems that God does not 'help' or 'protect' JW's. 

But the JW's have bridesmaids at weddings which is also pagan and spiritistic. 

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Am I looking any different from the foolhardy activism your attempting to portray out of convenience and fear? 

So if a person gives a warning about something they are an activist in your opinion ?

Wow all the prophets must have been activists then. Was Jesus an activist ? Um, maybe the Jewish religious leaders thought so ? 

Why would it be convenient for me ? And what do you think I fear ? 

And Try giving some sensible answers for a change. 

As for agreeing with Tom, well you did deliberately try to put him down when he had made a perfectly sensible comment. 

I have no friends on here, but i do agree with a person's comment if it makes sense and is true. 

The Kid must be on something quite strong that gives him hallucinations. Poor Kid.

I think TTH was referring to how Paul collected information by using all the people's viewpoints. I don't think TTH was in any way comparing himself to the Apostle Paul as the Kid seems to imply. But the Kid is getting desperate and needs to hang on to any little bit of grit that he can. 

Keep it up Kid, you make yourself looks more foolish by  the day. 

Oh yes and we all seem to be totally off topic too  

8 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I already have several times. I don't need to repeat what you already designated yourself. Therefore, why play with words, and confront those that you think need confronting. Don't look to speak with the GB to hear your nonsense just like Evans intent while referring the GB are not approachable. They are there to listen to scriptural and spiritual things. Not someone idiocy on how that person thinks the Watchtower should operate, or how scripture needs to be interpreted. They have God to guide them for that, not some silly and insignificant person from the UK.

Quote "They have God to guide them for that, not some silly and insignificant person from the UK." 

That is so funny Billy. You still believe your little gods the GB are 'guided' by Almighty God. How blind you must be to spiritual matters. How much you must worship those 8 little men. It's true they hold some power over a few people and they dictate to the whole congregation of JW's, but they are totally without God's guidance and totally without God's holy spirit, so they are quite unfit for purpose. 

The GB are no better that the Catholic Pope or some Archbishop. They all have some worldly power but none of them have Almighty God's approval. 

@Jasper1375 Wow you make it so clear how JW's are ruled over by the GB and the Elders.

I especially like this bit, Quote "no one can pull you in the back and counsel you" 

Thanks, that shows that the Elders do just that, and it shows that congregants are frightened by just that. 

Also quote, " “if it leaves your body it must be poured out” Rule. "  Rule, who's rule ?

And again Quote "I’m saddened by the way some have or hold on to old ideas." 

Um, exactly who's old ideas were they ? Oh yes the Society / GB's old ideas. That is the sad part Jasper, the fact that congregants follow the GB rules because the GB pretend to be the 'faithful and discreet slave'. 

In short, people have died because of the Society and the GB's rules. If people had read the scriptures, prayed to God, and used their own conscience, then some of those now dead would probably still be alive. 

@BillyTheKid46  Doing it here is not the same as having the guts to be vocal in front of the people you fear or feared.  Having the guts ? 

Well most of you are stateside i think and I'm not traveling over. The GB would be nigh on impossible to reach. My local Elders did get direct contact from me, but I was wise enough not to get myself disfe'd.  As for fear of man, well the Elders never frightened me, disappointed me yes. 

 However, in the same respect, don’t pretend by taking the higher moral ground, since you agree in most part with what Anna, James, and JWinsider offer as opinions to be factual when they are far from it.

I'm not pretending anything, I think the whole forum is funny. I thought I might actually learn something from it but there is no way. I haven't read one line about love and giving, or mercy and peace. But it's fun, better than watching the television. 

This I find funny, since you once asked, where else did I find you in another apostate site. You only needed to look at your own. Which in essence the FB is all about.😉

Well if you wish to call me an apostate it's your choice. I am only apostate to the GB ruled JW Org. I am not apostate to God or Christ, although I do realise I'm not close to them either, but then neither is anyone on here.

As for my Ex JW Facebook page, well it has 600 likes, so some folks seem to think I'm doing something right. 

9 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Forum Police? Care to explain? Kid and everyone else speaks their peace. As far as all things concerning you about 95% of the time, you tend to interject something into a topic that tends to be unrelated. Also you tend to be the type of person that has no problem pushing the buttons of others, but when such is done either directly or indirectly to you, you show a reaction, in some cases, a bit whiny, in this sense. This is the same case you regarding judgement, whereas you make the claim of others, but when you do it, it is ok, therefore, people can and will call you out for it. Elsewhere, there are people, unrelated to this thread as a whole, that is out for your head, reasons why I refrain from what they had said about you because those Christians do not like to be mocked and or insulted, in which you alluded to in one of your responses before. All I can say is that some had color languages for such ones like you who think they cannot be helped.

 

That being said, to even paraphrase what you said before, forums and or social spaces is a place where everyone gets involved, this also includes Facebook.

Yes this like many others is just a forum. @Space Merchant  I don't mind being 'called out'. At least on here it is direct and can be seen, unlike in JW Org where no one is 'allowed' to talk to me now and probably talks about me behind my back. 

But all this talk about money in the streets etc is totally off topic and a bit boring as it has nothing to do with the scripture concerning money having no value. 

But let's be honest, this forum has very little to do with Christianity anymore. It seems to be about people trying to get one above the other. People accusing others about using more than one name and some people getting upset about their relatives being 'insulted'. The whole forum has gone downhill. Hence I suppose why they now have a 'Private club' for the 'special' ones.

Oh yes, if 'elsewhere' people are out for my head, I have no knowledge of it.  My Facebook page is quite open. My other FB page 'Ex Jehovah's Witnesses still wanting to serve God' is also quite open. I do nothing in secret. So where are these people that are 'out for my head' ? Why have they not shown themselves ? Do they also use more than one name on forums ?  Whatever i do online is open and honest and I use my own personal name. I'm easy to find if people are 'hunting' for me. Though they cannot be very 'christian' people to be after my head. 

I find it funny how far off topic all this rubbish is AND I got told off for using the word 'hood' 

Quote @BillyTheKid46 This picture reminds me of the Drug dealers in the hood.   

@Space Merchant and the young boy, where are you both. Forum police.    

As for @James Thomas Rook Jr.quote " I personally do not trust a Brother who does not drink alcohol. "

" but I have found that alcohol makes a person more uninhibited, and it is then that their CURRENT "true colors" are more likely to be shown. "

If people need alcohol to speak the truth that is a bad thing.   And in my humble opinion if a person has consumed alcohol it means that they cannot face either the truth or life itself. 

Why would a happy person need alcohol ? Why would a contented person need alcohol ? 

Why would a sensible person waste money on alcohol ? 

And of course some pretend they don't actually 'need' alcohol but that it's just 'nice to drink'  Um ..... 

I cannot understand why anyone needs to put this video up anyway. There is enough truthful information to put the GB in their place already. The GB have done enough and put enough wicked rules in place to show their true personalities.  They also show that they have no love for God or people, just a need to rule over others. A need to keep the true Anointed apart and to have Elders ruling as policemen to keep all the congregants quiet. 

Your GB are just men, men that have no true understanding of God's written word. Men that do not have God guidance or God's holy spirit. They have proved that so many times. So yes this video is pointless. True or untrue it matters not, it's just pointless.

BUT, it wasn't ALL of us they put this video up,  and it wasn't ALL of us that approved of it. BTK likes to lump me in with others. SM likes to lump me in with others. And probably other people like to lump me in with others. Why ? Because it makes them feel good and it makes them feel secure. If they call all 'opponents' 'apostates' and whatever other name they wish to use, as one, it helps them to deal with people that tell the truth about the JW organisation. I can fully understand how they get hurt and how they are made to see the wickedness within the JW Org. But they don't wish to be shown. They only wish to serve their GB and it's Org. 

But whereas all JW's are JW's, not all of us that seek truth and make truth known about the JW Org are 'one'. We are all individuals and we have different ways of doing things and different priorities. So JW's may call any of us anything that please them. But remember that if you slander any of us, if you tell lies about any of us, then you place yourself in opposition to God. Treat me as a man of the nations or a Tax collector maybe ? But I have one advantage above those. I have been part of JW Org, I know how it works, I know the power that the Elders hold over congregants. Maybe i have only experienced it in Southern England, but the Org is the Org earthwide. Same GB, same rules, Elders have same power over congregants. 

Actually if the man did have a drink I could fully understand that he needs it.  He will have much to face from humans and from God in the future. 

13 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I’m not talking about you. I’m using you as an example. There’s a difference. I have no reason to speak to people like you. I don’t personally know you, nor would I ever want to. I know your kind, that uses bitterness and hate, to justify their actions. I don’t hate you as a person, but I do hate the “action” you have taken. Read scripture correctly to find what Jesus words mean to refer to the latter.

In the same respect, Srecko agreement of your comment proves what I told him earlier about being like Pharaoh. It doesn’t take a genius to see a person for what they really are.

Unfortunately, Srecko has become a “puppet” to the whims of others and mimics the disdain of the Watchtower just to go along with the crowd. What does scripture say about that? What does scripture say about pushing away people from worshipping the one true God and his commandments? It’s sad really to see when people, instant message him to make a controversial point that has no standing with the proof given.

 

Oh dear Kid, you talk as if you are better than me. In fact you twist truth and call me names because you know I speak truth.

You live in a dream world just worshipping the GB and It's Org. Hero worship and idol worship rolled into one. you think God approves of that ? 

As for Srecko, i think he may have been on this forum before I ever joined it. I do know that he has his own mind and his own words and is not a puppet for anyone, that can be clearly seen in his input. 

But maybe you are that Alen person others talk of, maybe you were removed before and have returned with a silly cowboy name. 

Could be that you are sly just like those men you worship. 

@BillyTheKid46 If you are referring to me then please explain to me my 'ideology' as you seem to pretend to know me better than i know myself

Quote "Therefore, for people like John, if a person is caught watching child porn versus someone getting caught for child molestation, this activist wants the same judgment and punishment."

Do I ?  I think not actually. If a JW commits a crime then I want that JW punished for that crime. 

How the Elders deal with the sin is down to GB rules, but how the authority deals with the crime is down to the Laws of that Land. 

In my opinion if any JW is found to be doing anything wrong in connection with / relating to / involving children, then it should be made known to the whole congregation asap. And in fairness to / showing love of neighbour, it should be made known to the local community too. Obviously it would only be made known after there was sufficient proof. 

Remembering the 'Good Samaritan' story which Jesus told, it had it's meaning of course. But if it were a true happening then there would have been an investigation to find and punish the robbers.  Anyone knowing who the criminals were would surely have to tell those in authority. It would surely have been their Christian duty to protect their neighbours. 

Do you really think it is right to hide such criminals within any organisation ? 

So returning to your comment Billy 'watching child porn or child molestation', both need reporting to the authorities and if they are JW's then both need reporting to the Elders. 

As you or others have said, the Elders are there to deal with spiritual matters not criminal matters. So there is a need to report it also to outside authorities that have the authority from God to deal with criminal matters. 

Well the scripture says speak to the congregation. But if a brother or sister did speak to the congregation they would be accused of 'causing a division in the congregation' 

And even when a person is disfellowshipped the reason is not given, it's kept hidden from the congregation..

Makes is soooo easy for them to disfellowship people easily for no scriptural reason.  Just the way one Elder threatened me. 

There are so many scriptures that prove that the GB and it's Org do not serve God through Christ. 

But of course the GB and it's Org do not live by the scriptures. Hence they now have big problems. 

10 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

It would be hypocritical to suggest someone’s opinion in this forum should natter more or above others. I recall a person by AllenSmith34 that didn’t get that consideration. Especially by people like “witness” that complained to the Librarian, I would imagine for his/her style of commenting on realistic views from opposers that want to command an audience but are too weak to accept criticism, from their misapplied views, and supporting false images thereof, and yet believe in their hearts, they are Christian.I guess the same can be side about Morris in a liquor store shopping for “spirits” that are NOT against any scriptural law other than the effect it takes after over-consumption. Then there is scriptural responsibility.The fact this has come about on this particular month reminds me of Alastor

 

 

Criticise away Kid you know you love it.  I'm sure we can all take it. 

Do all your pedophile Elders and congregants think they are Christians too ?  And all those that worship your GB, do they think they are Christians ? Get real Kid, see the truth in all of it.  Come down out of the clouds. 

@TrueTomHarley " it is only the eight that have gone renegade, disfellowship them already and be done with it! "

Now that would be a good start point.  If God wants that done it will surely happen. 

But then a lot of 'rule changing' and rebuilding would be needed too, to make the JW Org worthy for God to use.   

59 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Now there's a contradiction.

Explain please 

4 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Okay. Good to call a truce on that, I guess. I’ll try to hold back as well.

You must understand that this is a site that purports to be a gathering spot for JWs, therefore I do have a sense (possibly unwise) of “defending my turf.”

I would not behave that way were I on a site that does not purport to be a gathering spot for JWs.

I thought the JW site was the Private Club. I thought this one was for any one to comment on.

Are you sure you're not an Elder ? Higher rank maybe ? 

@TrueTomHarley TTH, the man who writes books and makes fun of everyone else. The man who thinks he can just brush over everything and everyone by his stupid remarks. Make people laugh then they will forget. 

Is that the latest idea from the GB ? Grow up Tom. Take on some responsibility, you are 'supposed' to be servant of God after all.  

Well you probably think you are. But you seem to lack patience and self control. Very picky in what you will watch and listen to and read. 

So how do you learn anything ? By only reading the things which you feel will please you ?  A bit unbalanced ?

But then it seems JW 's have to be unbalanced to stay in the Org without knowing the truth about it. 

@Space Merchant  I do not like getting involved in conversation with you as it is so clear that you do not understand my English way of writing things.

Firstyl, any reference to 'Kid' is not reference to you. It is reference to Billy the Kid. 

Secondly, if i don't 'tag' you it's because I am just including you in a comment not talking directly to you.  You have often included me as Butler in comments. 

Thirdly, please look at the heading of this topic.  it is about Jehovah's Witnesses and their Kingdom Halls. I am not generalising about ALL religions. I honestly don't care about other religions. My points are only about JW's. 

Forth,  The damaging of these building belonging to JW's does coincide with the investigations Earthwide into the whole JW religion. 

Enough, my points are made. I do not think we will ever understand each other or ever agree with each other, but I wish you a good day. 

1 minute ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I that boy had turned over a new leaf?

Ah, well. Kids is kids. Ideally, they grow up.

And  I used to think that people invited to Bethel were spiritually mature. Now it's a kindergarten is it ? 

1 minute ago, TrueTomHarley said:

They don’t.

 

Do you mean they don't pretend to be poor ?