JOHN BUTLER

The rumor about "higher-ups" is not directly related, but it was related to the "gifts" of prime cut steaks that were sent periodically from Watchtower Farms to Brooklyn. These were never served to the Bethel family, but I knew one of the cooks who was sworn to secrecy about who got them and how often. There are always perks in any organization for those at a certain level of responsibility, and this was not a "Governing Body" thing. It was more of a long time seniority thing, which will necessarily (sometimes) overlap. Since these steaks were served semi-privately as specially cooked meals, they could be served with alcohol, but some brothers were said to have already served themselves alcohol before coming down to get their meal. Certain brothers became known for this behavior, even to the point of using very foul language to the cooks and waiters. If you want to keep a secret the last thing you want to do is curse out a cook or a waiter My my, it gets even better. Imagine telling all this to a new bible study. But of course everyone is equal, oh wait a minute we have 'higher ups' getting prime steak, served privately. After all 'There are always perks in any organization for those at a certain level of responsibility'. And brothers are all loving and kind and very spiritual at bethel, oh no there are brothers that get drunk and swear at the cooks and waiters. It's shows itself as being just another big organisation with those at the top living off of those at the bottom. No wonder the GB do not receive God's holy spirit.

Quote @JW Insider Drinking stories were always rampant at Bethel. There were always stories of higher-ups getting drunk, but this was likely fueled by younger Bethelites who were looking for excuses for their own behavior. The cooks who worked an after-dinner late shift only available to "higher ups" had the most consistent stories, but I still saw signs of exaggeration. But I have seen young Bethelites get drunk, and it was shameful and embarrassing. (For some 19 and 20 year olds, Bethel would have been their first real experience with alcohol.) I have seen housekeepers gathering liquor bottles from rooms and the sum total would have surprised anyone. I was sometimes surprised that people were periodically sent home for stealing and immorality, but never (that I knew of) for excessive drinking. I don't even have to go looking for faults in the Org. People seem quite happy to reveal the faults on here.. It's kinda funny then that some folks say i have an agenda. Drunks in Bethal, shows the lack of spiritual wisdom doesn't it ? Where is God's 'guidance there ? As for the GB pretending to be 'poor', i bet they have country mansions for summer holidays

Ah I see, conform when it suits you . But at least you got the point of my earlier comment. Quote "And of course, to YOU ... your thinking seems normal." Wrong, nothing about me is normal. Psychiatrists and psychologists have had a great time dealing with me. Some one must have made some money from the tablets too Adam was created normal. The rest of us just suffer our strange ways. When a person starts to understand that they are not 'normal' then life becomes a lot easier. As for your 'agenda driven thinking.' bit, well you are starting to sound like TTH. I have no agendas, my life is too full since leaving that Org. Hence I spend less time on here. Unless of course you mean exposing the GB and the JW Org for what it really is, that is called having purpose. Meaningful warnings to others is not an agenda. Just because some folks like to hide behind the curtain and pretend all is well, doesn't mean that in reality all is well.

James, you don't mind being a puppet then ?

Ah but the free ones are just advertising for the ones that cost money . Recognition is good advertising.

Is that the best you can do ? Or is the fact that I'm putting you and the Org to shame hurting you ? You and others on here are not serving God properly anyway, no love, no mercy, no care. I can understand it's all just 'food' for your books, and i can see that you are putting Your business before God's will. But then it's no different than the GB putting their business before God's will is it ? You all lost the discussion when you've said that Child Sex Abuse is happening in every organisation, because it means JW Org is no better than any other organisation. And i think you also said that 'opposers' (as you call them) want to see the JW Org shut down, whereas that is not true for many of us. We just want to see if God will clean it out.... We are not all 'opposers' in the sense that you seem to use. Have a great day Tom.

I've just read the rest of it, it all means nothing Tom. It's just burble. Were you up all night and couldn't sleep ? Are you ill ? Are you just having a dig at your opposition ? What is it all about ? Russia has nothing to do with Pedophilia, at least i don't think it does.. Totally different ball game. But to try to use Russia as a smoke screen, or for people to feel sorry for JW's regarding Pedophilia, is totally wrong. Le'ts look at this bit. Quote " It is one of the few things in the world today that does make sense—that is the reason that Witnesses were attracted to Bible teachings in the first place. It is the reason that they stick to it despite trials and even blunders." Are but there is a problem there isn't there ? The problem is that each and every Witness is brought into a different 'truth', depending on exactly when they came into the JW religion. The Creative Days for instance. Many folks came into the JW Org when the 6 Creative Days were 7,000 years long, and they were in the 7th day. It all made sense. End of 6,000 years then 1,000 years of Christ's reign. Then it all would get handed back to God. But now all that is gone. So bang goes half the foundation of your idea of making sense. Then there was the This Generation will not pass away. But that too has gone. Replaced by the biggest load of cr*p you can imagine. So now your idea of making sense gets even less. If you bought a new house and moved in, you may love it and it may be very sensible and good to live in. But wow, the builder takes the roof off, what ? Then the builder removes all the windows, yow. So now your new house is not the same place. You may argue with the builder, or you may just move out. You might not have a permanent place to live but you could not stay in a house that is so cold and lets the rain in. Do you get this message ? Because that is exactly what your GB has done. Your GB has removed over half of the foundation, they have replaced all comfort with barbed wire and filled it with 'roaring lions' of all types. It is no longer what it was. It no longer teaches Bible truth with love and mercy.

Sorry Tom that was tooooooooooooooooooooo long. I read half but you do go on a bit What i did notice was the same old collateral damage thing. Quote " It is but a component of the big picture, overall a very small one." It's only SMALL to you and others that are not interested in those that have suffered. Seems to be the American way of life. War or religion, collateral damage. No love, no respect, survival of the mentally fittest. That's not Spiritual Wisdom Tom, it's not caring for widows and orphans, it's not being being a crag or rock as the Org should be. I'll try to read the rest later after my walk in the woods. Have a good day opponent not enemy . As for this Tom, you are totally wrong, Quote "Time heals most everything that wants to be healed." You honestly do not understand, we don't have a choice but to remember those things.

We really don't know.... No but the timing matches up.

Anna. You'll be promoting TTH's books soon . James 'refraining from killing someone' does not make you theocratic it just means you have a conscience. I think the Kid's point was that vigilante justice does not get back at the accused, but to many the accused is the GB and whole JW Org, so if KH's are being destroyed then it is getting back at the accused in a big way. It disrupts meetings, causes worry to congregants, and costs the Org money. I would say that is getting back at the accused. Hope no one is physically hurt though.

Oh what a laugh you two give me. SM. Quote "Christians will always be a primary target ... " You are totally missing the point here SM. It may not be Christians that it is aimed at, it could well be Pedophiles that are hidden in the JW Org by their GB. So it might be aimed at the whole JW Org which supports the pedophilia within it. And Kid. Quote "How do 2 wrongs make a right? " They don't. Just like pedophilia is wrong and so is hiding it in the JW Org. Two wrongs. And again quote " These actions are not with a set of moral code, but rather the actions of hateful and deranged mind orchestrated out of HATE, nothing more. " So what is pedophilia the actions of ? Where is the moral code of Elders that rape and sexually abuse young children, sometimes even their own children ? Those elders and other pedophiles in the JW Org must have deranged minds. Maybe the GB and Bethal 'bosses' also have deranged minds, reading all the reports about sexual abuse of children and not reporting any of it the police or authorities. Maybe this destructive action was done by those who have been abused and families of those abused. I wouldn't do it, but everyone is different. You have to remember how long pedophilia has been going on in the JW Org and also other forms of abuse in same. And the hurt that shunning causes, and being disfellowshipped for no good reasons. Please don't 'kid' yourself that this is anti-christian, when it's more likely anti-pedophilia and anti-GB / Elders actions. Or do you think it is coincidence that it is happening at the same time that JW Org is being investigated Earthwide.

How strange you are Tom

To quote " In the book "The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah"- How ?, one of the many reasons given for Jehovah's wrath against Christendom is: "Jehovah hates being treated by religious hypocrites like a God who can be fooled." " Oh how that is definitely a good description of the JW Org. 'religious hypocrites' treating God as if he cannot see everything and know everything. CHILD ABUSE committed by ELDERS in the JW ORG for over 50 YEARS EARTHWIDE. Shunning of people that should not be shunned. Misusing scriptures such as Superior Authorities' and 'This Generation' to deliberately mislead people and so that the GB down to the Elders can 'Lord it over the congregation' Earthwide. Yes the JW Org certainly does treat God 'like a God who can be fooled'. So when the Judgement Day arrives, oh dear, GB and JW Org down the pan i think

God's idea of soon could be hundreds of years from now. There is not one 'religion' serving God properly right now, so Judgement Day is still a long way off. All the horror pictures used by the GB and JW Org are just bullying tactics to frighten people. What a way to try to teach people the 'truth'. The JW Org needs cleaning out if God is going to use it, so don't hold your breath over Armageddon.

Now is this an attack on the 'serving of God' side of the religion, or, is it an attack against the Child Abuse side of the religion ? The JW Org is now in that unfortunate position of not knowing. It would be so easy for them to say that it is persecution of the 'true religion' and coming from the devil etc..... But in fact it may be because of all the media news Earthwide about the Child Abuse within the JW Org. It would be good if the attackers would give reasons for the attacks. By the way, i don't think this is good news. I don't agree with this type of destructive and dangerous action. I don't agree with violence or anti social behavior. I hope all the people are ok and it would be good to think that all the Elders are doing shepherding work to look after the 'flock'. Older congregants and maybe even some young ones may be frightened by it all.

That link is just fantastic. Very straight, no hype. Sorry but I cannot stand videos from USA about child abuse as they always seem hyped up, but this link is just so down to earth. I suppose I prefer to read it rather than listen to or watch it. I was moved by the straight forward way in which it was written. Of course that cowboy BTK and probably TTH and others will say it's not true and apostate lies, but we cannot expect anything better from those that worship the GB and the JW Org. Anyway a man that pretends to be a cowboy, and an author looking to earn money are hardly people we need to take notice of are they ? I do honestly hope that this year will see some positive outcome from all the investigations Earthwide. Hopefully the GB will get punished in someway, either by God / Jesus Christ, or by the US legal system, or both. It is so good that some people take the risk of stealing documents to give proof of the crimes of the GB and JW Org. I'm sure in some way this would relate to things from Bible times, where true servants of God risked their lives for God's true purpose. I'm thinking of the 'spies' that went in to Jericho. But now we have a question. Where does it go from here ? it's like politics, it's all too easy to remove a political party or to protest against same, but the more difficult task is to replace it. What does God / Jesus Christ intend to follow up with, that is the question we should all be asking ?

And was Rutherford supposed to be being guided by God and / or Jesus Christ in all this thinking / writing ?

It seems than that the Kid is trying to run the show, and give orders to others. He seems to have learnt his ways from the GB and the Elders. I do wish people would fully understand the word Apostate though. And isn't this the OPEN forum for all of us. Don't JW's have a private/ closed forum for themselves ? So where is the problem for that poor child Kid. Can't he just go to the Private forum and be happy there ? @JW Insider Quote "The only comments allowed in a congregational setting must be completely supportive even if the paragraph contained information that was clearly unscriptural. " Thank you JWI, this is so true and so wrong. And it's a form of brainwashing, a ritual by parrot fashion answering. Basically just repeating what the W/t article states as 'fact' when in truth it is not fact. When you think of it that's how they teach evolution in schools. If it's in the text book it has to be right. Just as if it's in the W/t it has to be right. Can people not see the hypocracy of it all. And that is what the Kid wants here, indoctrination. No thanks.

Lost all sense of balance have I ? Well if i wanted to drive to Scotland I wouldn't know the exact route, but I'd know not to go to Cornwall as it's in the complete opposite direction. Similarly the more I'm finding out about the JW Org and the GB, the more I know it is the wrong direction. The only difference is the GB and it's Org could change if God chose to change it. But right now my balance and conscience tell me to stay away from it.

@TrueTomHarley PR ? So you are here to put the JW side over to non Witnesses and me and a couple of others are here to tell them the truth. A good balance i think Tom. Only I'm not using people, to write a book or earn money . i have the genuine feeling and safety of people as my reason. Just because i don't know what is perfectly correct does not mean I don't know what is totally wrong.

To quote a Kid "we have the brightest minds at work here, let's act the part". But what you have is human wisdom, not the Wisdom from God. As for harmony and unity, I think you are in the wrong house. That must be in the PRIVATE house. . A place I will never be allowed to go. Still they have to hide somewhere I suppose. Quote the Kid "Can we believe whatever association here, is not flawed and is not outside the norm of Christian ethics? " Explain the Christian ethics of your GB et al, regarding Child Abuse, shuning, and all the other issues, including misuse of scriptures such as 'the Superior Authorities', 'Faithful and Discreet slave' etc. The JW Org is not fit for purpose yet you condemn everyone else, that is so funny . You should be a politician Kid and you TTH. Politicians find fault with the opposition instead of looking inside their own 'crowd'.

From @TrueTomHarley A personal letter to Billy the Kid. So why not in a personal folder And I still find it funny how you compare yourself to GB / JW rules when you say you've been a 'bad boy'. You go on about what the GB might have said and what the Elders said and how you 'justified yourself to men' (Elders), but no mention of Almighty God or Jesus Christ at all. You keep saying this is not a congregation on here. Every sentence is about the JW Org. Tom please start thinking about GOD and JESUS CHRIST, not about pleasing men such as the GB and Elders. One good thing about being outside of the Org is that it gives a person a closer relationship with God through Christ. And you have just proved that through your own writings.

Look, the only people who have a clue that there even is such a thing as anointed as separate from every person just trying to be good is Jehovah’s Witnesses, Are you sure of this ? And are you saying that a person has to be a JW to believe in an Anointed class ? Are you saying that 'outsiders' cannot believe in the Anointed ? Once again Tom you only see things through the eyes of JW Org.

I advise you understand the difference between True Christianity and mainstream Christianity So SM you are not a JW, so are JW's True Christianity and if so why are you not one of the m ?

I continue to find it funny how some folks take the scriptures and only apply them to the JW Org. The Catholics would apply the scriptures to themselves too, and the Anglicans etc.. I think folks should stop kidding themselves and remember that those scriptures in the Christian Greek 'half' of the Bible applied to the Anointed. And in my opinion they still belong to and apply to the Anointed. Your 8 Americans are not the Anointed. So many of you are being misled. So be it, because you are being misled because you want to be. James, a family of say 8 people, 2 parents and 6 children, are usually not united these days. Billy's scriptures applied to the Anointed not the earthly class. Don't hope for too much in this system. Hope you are all well. I felt closer to God being out in the woodlands today, much closer than being in a Kingdom Hall, and no shirt and tie