JOHN BUTLER

Tom what on earth are your going on about ? 

I know I've been out in the woods all day with my crazy wife digging up Victorian bottles, but i hoped to come on here to find some sanity. 

But no, just more craziness. Please explain in around two sentences what all your burbling is about.   Thanks. 

7 minutes ago, Anna said:

@JOHN BUTLER Have you heard anything from when you tried to contact the Police about the abuse in your old hall?

No. But I gave them enough details in one message that it should have got some sort of response. 

They have my name and email address. They have the KH address. They have all the information I have. 

21 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Okay. Good answer.

I thought that you might get sanctimonious about it, but you didn’t. 

Following sport can be a religion in itself. It’s amazing the degree to which people get into it.

It is even like when the Witness organization tries to sell everyone that kicking around the soccer ball at a picnic is the equivalent of being on the school sports team, and the kids roll their eyes because they don’t think it’s that way at all. In this regard, they should look to you.

Thank you. It's obvious that adults and children need exercise to the extent that they are physically capable and it should be fun. 

When the fun turns into 'sport' and it gets competitive then it can cause problems. 

I suppose a professional sports person / athlete etc, that truly wants to serve God properly, would have to approach God in prayer and think it through with a good conscience. But who am i to say or judge. It's just that I've tended to see 'professional sport' as a bit tacky and commercial, big business like. Example, buying and selling football team players etc. 

1 minute ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This must be extremely stressful to you, since the link you supplied points to 13 specific areas of inquiry, all but the first thought to be possible hotbeds of CSA, and the religion you despise is not among them.

From the email I received. " In June 2015 it issued a retention order covering documents of interest to the Inquiry to the leaders of 18 prominent religious organisations, including the Jehovah's Witnesses. " 

18 different religions, apart from all the government departments and other institutions. So give them a chance.

It doesn't say that the JW Org is not worth investigating does it ? It's just not top priority. 

It is sad for the victims of JW Org sexual abuse here in the UK to have to wait longer, but I think the investigation will happen in time.

As for me despising any religion well those are your words Tom not mine.  

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/investigations

10 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Do you know what tennis is?

Um, when i was in the Children's Home we had a table tennis set up, which was great fun.

The girls school next to my senior school  played 'lawn' tennis, and when our children were younger we would go to the park and try to hit a ball back n forth. 

So i have a basic idea of what tennis is from a fun viewpoint. But no interest in it from a competitive / profesional viewpoint.

My theory has always been that games are for playing not watching. i think it's called exercise :).  

I was having a discussion on here somewhere with someone, concerning the IICSA investigation into JW Org in the UK. 

I've just received this email from them so thought I'd put it up on here for people to look at. 

It doesn't copy and paste exactly as it looks on my email, but here it is anyway :- 

Our reference: IICSA-0013979

Dear Mr Butler

Thank you for contacting the Inquiry on 3 February.

As you may be aware, the Inquiry is investigating institutional failure to protect children from sexual abuse in the Anglican and Roman Catholic Churches. In June 2015 it issued a retention order covering documents of interest to the Inquiry to the leaders of 18 prominent religious organisations, including the Jehovah's Witnesses.  

The Inquiry has received correspondence from a considerable number of individuals raising concerns about child sexual abuse within Jehovah's Witnesses organisations. At present the Inquiry is committed to delivering its existing programme and is not currently launching any new investigations. However, as our work progresses, we will consider calls for a Jehovah's Witnesses specific investigation carefully.

Any updates on our investigations, including scope and hearings can be found on our website at www.iicsa.org.uk/investigations

I am sorry for the delay in responding to you and I hope that you have found this information useful. If you have any questions regarding the contents of this email, please do not hesitate to contact the Inquiry again.

Yours sincerely

Jodie Yarborough

Head of Correspondence & Engagement Team

Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse

5 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

She can play tennis, though.

I don't know Tom, I'm 'no part of the world' and don't get involved in competitive sports from any viewpoint.  

Boring, more hero worship. She is only another sinner like the rest of us so why all the fuss ? 

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Since the GB walk in all that God commands, then your statement is false.

1.      Since the 2 witness rule was not always necessary conforming to some circumstances, that statement is false

2.      Since both fornicators are the 2 witnesses and in some cases, there could be more, that statement is false.

3.      Since the Watchtower corporates with secular authority as much as secular law allows, and hands over documents voluntarily without a subpoena as in the ARC case, that statement is false. Not to mention it would be contrary to the policies set by the Watchtower through those illegally leaked BOE letters and flock book.

Therefore, those cases do not define the organization, unless it comes from false prophet’s hell-bent on promoting their own agenda of defamation, slander and still believe somehow they walk in all that God commands.

Rubber-room

 

 

You live in such a dream world Kid. 

The GB place themselves on high, God didn't put them there. You certainly worship your GB. 

1. Two witness rule, It seems you are calling victims liars, just as your GB did. 

2. Fornication ? just because two people of opposite sex spend a night in the same house. 

3. Watchtower / JW Org, tried to stop the Charity Commision inquiry. GB/Legal dept refused to hand over documents to California Supreme Court. Elders told to destroy documents 'because satan is coming after the Org'. 

Can't remember much can you Kid. 

As for walking in all that God commands, only Jesus has done that, the rest of us are sinners. 

@BillyTheKid46 Jeremiah 7.  23 but this is what I commanded them: Obey Me, and I will be your God, and you will be my people. You must walk in all the ways I have commanded you, so that it may go well with you.

Unfortunately the Kid and others seem to replace God with the GB and it's JW Org. 

I agree that we should obey GOD through Jesus Christ, but do not agree that we should obey men (the GB of JW Org) 

Are they still using that TWO WITNESS RULE against young children ? 

But not using it when they want to accuse ADULTS of fornication. 

Is the Org still withholding evidence and still trying to stop investigations ? 

Just food for thought.

The plain and simple answer about your GB is : By their works you will know them. 

And i judge the GB by their works of dishonesty and lies. Their lack of love for victims. Their putting themselves in the place of Jesus Christ. The way that they have silenced the Anointed. Misused scriptures. Lorded it over the congregation.  And given themselves the title of F&DS there by exalting themselves, and we know what the result of that will be. 

We have to judge them, otherwise we would just serve blindly.

Jesus himself judged the Pharisees. The disciples judged Jesus and found him to be the true one to follow. 

You yourself seem to judge the GB as being God's true servants. That is your judgement and your choice. 

In my opinion you allow sin to be overlooked in the GB because you look at it from mans viewpoint. 

But what about God's viewpoint ? How long will He continue putting up with it ? 

You have judged elders also as you said some of them should not be elders. So if it is God's Organisation and if those elders were appointed with God's holy spirit, why do you say they should not be elders ?

Isn't that going against God's holy spirit ? 

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

You can do better, John?

No but the true Anointed should be able to. 

I really cannot understand why God is allowing it all to go this way. 

But then His thoughts are much higher than ours. 

14 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

It is not fake... there is no substitute that is better.

It's just that it LOOKS fake to reasonable people, because of human greed.

No James, it is fake. Fake interpretation of scriptures. Fake F&DS. Fake love. Fake authority. 

Even the number of JW's is now fake. Made up of five year olds, and fake baptisms. 

But if God wiped out the Nation of Israel or at least allowed it to be wiped out, because it didn't meet the mark, then do you think God wants another 'failure' of an organisation ? 

(The Nation of israel didn't fail completely of course as it did its job of bringing forth God's son as a human, but it failed in its service to God)

So, is God going to accept a fake organisation in which people are only interested in saving themselves ?  It's obvious there is not much love in there as it wouldn't be in such a mess. It's obvious that there is dishonesty and lack of understanding of the scriptures. It's obvious too that the Anointed are being mistreated by the GB, and i would say it's obvious that the GB have given themselves a false title of the F&DS. 

Do you honestly believe that God is satisfied with the JW Org as it is ? 

The Kid makes me think of an example.

A man is arrested for murder. The murder is proved beyond doubt. But, the man says,' IS have murdered many more people than I have'.

Then the man says ' Hitler was responsible for millions of murders'. 

'So on that account', the man says, 'I must be innocent, because no one is perfect, and I have done less harm than most' 'So I should be set free' the man says. 

This seems to be the Kid's way of thinking, and the way of many others too. 

I've said so many times before, did the priests of the Nation of Israel say' But we didn't offer as many children in the fire to Molech as the other nations did'. 

Unfortunately most of you are looking at the problem from 'mans' viewpoint. You are making excuses just as any sinner would. 

You are not looking at the whole situation from God's way of thinking.

God needs to have a CLEAN HONEST SINCERE LOVING ORGANISATION. 

JW ORG is NOT the Org it needs to be. It cannot serve God properly the way it is. 

Perhaps that's why Armageddon has been delayed, maybe no one is worth saving right now.

Remember that the Nation of Israel was supposed to enter the Promised Land much sooner than they did. 

They were not worthy so had to spend forty years in the wilderness.

I wonder how long God will keep people in the 'wilderness' this time. Until He is satisfied that some are serving Him properly that's for sure. 

This 'mini revolution' within the JW Org could be the turning point. It could wake up the sleeping Anointed ones. Then God could get on with His work.

Yes I know God could do it all on His own if He wanted to, but He wants people to serve Him willingly and honestly.  

32 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Interesting. You don’t understand what is being said. How convenient.

The investigation claims that allegations dating back to the 1980s were mishandled by authorities in Telford, who repeatedly failed to punish a network of abusers.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/11/1000-children-may-have-victims-britains-biggest-ever-child-abuse/

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/11/18259908/kirsten-gillibrand-sexual-harassment

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/11/politics/gillibrand-defends-senate-office-allegations/index.html

Yet, it’s the government that has all the solutions for opposers.

Since you are competing nationalities against each other, as a Marxist, then how well do Americans fair against British commendation? mainly, yours since you speak for all Brits.

 

Oh dear Billy is throwing his toys out of his prama gain. 

I have no interest in what worldly governments led by Satan are doing.  The JW Org is supposed to be NO PART OF THE WORLD.... 

My interest is in ordinary people. Mainly working class and lower class people. People that have not got money or power nor a good education, and basically have to do as they are told by secular laws, police, big business bosses, et al. 

Jesus was interested in those people that were down trodden and poor. Those people that were 'walked over' by the religious leaders of the Nation of Israel. 

I see you've given me another title. It must make you feel so grand being able to dish out titles to people. 'Oh yes we'll just put another label on him'... So funny Kid. 

But with all all the worldly info' you spout, it does not detract from the truth about JW Org. JW Org is rigged and it's faulty according to James. I would call it a lot worse, but being polite I'll just say it is, hypocritical and disgusting, and full of lies and false teachings, and run by men that think they are important. 

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

"Collateral Damage" can be eliminated ONLY when you take all humans out of the equation.

Any other perception is childish, and not realistic.

I know ... I used to be like you.

I miss it.

Ignorance really is ... bliss.

...but I try not go go orgasmic.

Yep definitely American thinking / brainwashing. 

5 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Awhile back, I think we had LOOOong discussions about this, and as a retired Engineer who worked with risk assessment in the real world, and had to quantify it with numbers ( How MUCH, and to how many decimal places... ?), I agreed with I think it was TTH's comment and analysis that, yes we DO have the same problems as everyone else ... but it is less than 10% of ANYBODY else.

ANYBODY else.

That is why, I truly believe ... and THEREFORE .... Jehovah's Witnesses are "The Only Game in Town".

Sure, it's rigged ... and faulty ... but all the others are so much worse.

If you are careful, you can eat three day old meat that has been out in the sun ... if you have experience.

The alternative is to starve, or get poisoned.

 

 

American attitude. Shame really. COLLATERAL DAMAGE and none of you care. 

But the GB are basically American so hence the American attitude rubs off on the brothers and sisters in the Org. 

"Hide it all and forget about them that fall" attitude. Wash the outside of that big bowl but don't worry about the inside. 

So you think God wants a 'rigged and faulty' organisation that does not look after 'widows and orphans' and does not have love amongst its own people. 

Survival of the fittest in the JW Org. Well then maybe you should preach this to the people in the world. At least you would then be telling the truth. 

"Good morning, glad to find you home. We are here to tell you that our Organisation is impure and has may people in it that cannot be trusted, but if you don't join us you will die at Armageddon. So you'd better do as we tell you"  

Um, not bad for a first mock up  

Right, you can get back to your offering children to Molech then. It obviously doesn't bother you. 

1 minute ago, Outta Here said:

Far too busy with the other institutions which must pose a far greater threat.

Any child being abused, whether sexually, physically or emotionally, is totally wrong. 

The ARC didn't start with the JW Org did it ? 

The IICSA must have their reasons for the order in which they deal with Orgs.  

don't know where you got your list from but some of those mentioned are pretty much in the public eye so probs more noticeable.

Some of the others are very vague though. 'children outside the UK' for instance.

I suppose also that it depends where the pressure to investigate comes from. If the outcry is big / strong enough then it will probably happen.

That is why the UK needs people to make genuine complaints against the JW Org.   Note I did say genuine complaints. 

3 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

How does this fair any different with our institutions that you fail to mention to further your cause of hate, get real man, shell shock, just look in the mirror? 

Sorry I don't understand your point here. If it actually means anything then please explain. Thankyou. 

and Jehovah really does have a Congregational Arrangement, and Jehovah's Witnesses , globally, "ARE THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN!" 

Oh dear are you suffering from shell shock or something.

If an Organisation needs to be run on lies and deceit by a group of 8 Americans (basically), then in my opinion it is not God's Organisation.  

And if they need to replace the Anointed by using Elders who are not spirit anointed then how is that right ?

And I will stick to my personal idea that, as the scriptures were written with the guidance of Holy Spirit, and as the Bible was 'put together' by means of Holy Spirit, then it can only be fully understood by God supplying His Holy spirit through Jesus Christ. So if the GB are not inspired of God's Holy spirit it gives very good reason that they cannot understand the scriptures and therefore get many things wrong. 

JW's follow 8 men and it's writing department and it's legal department.

The Elders serve as puppets to the GB and act as policemen to the congregation with the intention of making the JW Org look clean. Unfortunately the 'bowl' is only washed on the outside, so inside it's still filthy. 

And this is your 'Only Game In town' ? 

Then may God have mercy on the human race. 

2 hours ago, Outta Here said:

If they are, they have "hidden" their intention up to now. They are investigating:

• Cambridge House, Knowl View and Rochdale
• Children in Custodial Institutions
• Children Outside the UK
• Child Sexual Exploitation by Organised Networks
• Institutional Responses to Allegations Concerning Lord Janner
• Lambeth Council
• Nottinghamshire Councils
• Residential Schools
• The Anglican Church
• The Internet
• The Roman Catholic Church
• Westminster

Where did you pick up that information? Where did they say they are going to do an investigation into the UK branch of JW's? The only mention of Jehohavah's Witnesses so far has been by Rod Jones, social worker for  Nottingham, who said he had to deal with cases involving Jehovah's Witnesses children and blood transfusions although there are no specific details.

 

Well it's been a year since the rumour first started, but the IICSA are very busy as you know :- 

https://www.theweek.co.uk/92180/jehovah-s-witnesses-face-possible-child-sex-abuse-inquiry

the Watchtower hides things. When that is proven false 

Has it been proven false ?   

Then why did the GB / Legal dept refuse to hand over all of the twenty years worth of Child Abuse accusations in the USA ?

They didn't say those documents didn't exist, they just refused to hand them over. 

Now, whether they needed legally to hand those documents over or not, the point was proven that those documents existed. So that is hidden information. 

And didn't the Charity commision find things out on their investigation hee in the UK ? And didn't the UK branch/ hq/ bethel try to stop the Charity Commision from doing it's investigation ? So wasn't the UK bethel/hq trying to hide things ? 

And isn't the IICSA going to do an investigation into the UK branch of JW's ?  Why would they bother if they didn't think there were things being hidden ? 

And in other countries groups such as Reclaimed Voices are pushing for more investigations.

I think there is a lot more muck going to be dug out of the JW Org over this year. 

Too bad that you cannot see that the GB are not the 'faithful and discreet slave' that they pretend to be. 

They not only hide things from the public, they also hide things from the congregants. 

11.35pm. Good night from the pleasant countryside of Devon England  

40 minutes ago, Anna said:

If they are based on the Bible then yes.

Now there's the rub