JOHN BUTLER

“The court ruled that the church had no obligation to warn the congregation that the member had admitted to previously molesting his stepdaughter.” Um, i wonder what God's thoughts on the matter are though ? How exactly is it protecting the children in the congregation or outside by keeping it secret ?

What I do find funny John, people think themselves Christians with no Christian ethics in their soul. What I do find funny Billy is people think themselves Christian just because they serve an Organisation that pretends to serve God. A true Christian is one who serves Almighty God through Jesus Christ. And what ethics do all those Elders and other JW's have, that commit Child Abuse ?

Um, so, if all are Ministers in the JW Org, then all those that commit the crime of Child Abuse in the Org are Ministers. So it could rightly be said that JW Ministers commit Child Abuse. Some of those ministers are JW Clergy Child Abuse is not funny, but this forum is funny.

@Anna I do worry about you. And when you said 'we' I almost knew you meant the Elders. So then it got me thinking are you in fact a man, an Elder. However, you seem to talk in different manners at different times, making me think that you are different people. Possibly two or more people using the same name on the same computer, working as a team.. The expression 'My bad' seems to only come from one of your personas. But in other cases you talk correctly. Confusing to say the least.

@Anna Quote " In their eyes we are clergy. " Who is this 'we' ? Is this the Elders or all JW's ?

So here we have two opposing views on the Clergy Privilege laws. I'm not into laws and I would presume it is different in different countries anyway, but my idera still stands if it would work. There is one point that as James said and i've always thought it, the Clergy Privilege law applies one on one, and once a group of people know the circumstances then that law no longer applies. But i will admit to being out of my depth on the subject.

“We’re Jehovah’s Witnesses, so we don’t do that. That does not sound like a personal opinion to me.

Yes I agree there were only Anointed ones in the early Christian congregation. And my feeling is, it is only anointed ones that are Spiritually qualified. But those of the Anointed are not known generally so the Elders 'rule' in their place. If God had actually chosen the Elders then they would not be the kind of people that they are.

I will repeat what i wrote previously. It could be announced from the platform in every KH that all types of crimes reported to the Elders would be reported to the authorities. Then people would be able to make the decision whether to tell the Elders or not. If it was made clear that ALL CRIMES would be reported to the authorities then I wonder if that would remove the 'clergy privilege' excuse. As for the others things you mentioned Billy, if they are not crimes then the authorities do not need to be involved. I suppose in some countries homosexuality may still be a crime, I don't know. Did I read on here that an Elder at the ARC said that he would not report a murder ? If so then where is his love of neighbour ?

@Anna quote "The elders could wash their hands clean off the whole situation" The Elders could wash their hands of the legal side of the situation and help the JW Org to show honesty and openness. Then the Elders could deal with the spiritual side of the situation. Even if the police did not take action, the Org should have written proof that the situation was reported. Thereby putting the responsibility for the legal side of the matter squarely where it belongs. In my opinion the victim should not have the right to keep it within the family. I know that sounds heartless but if there is a definite pedophile in the family then that one needs reporting to the Police. It would safeguard others outside the family and in my opinion it is part of showing love to neighbour quite literally as it may be a neighbours child that suffers next if the person is not reported. Plus if the perp' is one of the parents then that parent needs removing or the child needs removing from that situation.

Boring, read it all before. TTH just loves covering pages with words. Let's get horridly blunt here. If Jesus had been put to death because he had been a pedophile, then he would have died in shame not glory. The JW Org is not being shot down for trying to serve God properly, so do not try to kid yourselves or anyone else. The JW Org and its GB are being shot down for it's vile ways and it's sly deceptive practices. Trying to wash the outside of it's 'dish' but leavingth inside disgustingly filthy. Jesus served his heavenly Father fully and purely and has been rewarded for it. The GB and it's Org are also getting their payment right now. They are receiving the just punishments for the wicked deeds they have performed. Do i care if the GB and the JW Org are wiped out by the heavy fines, no i don't. What i care about is Almighty God having a clean and respected name. And i care about Jesus Christ sorting out this Earth by removing the wicked 'world' that exists upon it. The Nation of Israel was taken captive and left in ruin for its sins, but God raised it up again, so that it could serve its purpose.. I have faith enough to know that if the JW Org is what God wants to use, then he can raise it up again to serve his purpose. Time will tell us exactly what God wants to happen, because God's will is what will take place through Jesus Christ. Meanwhile Tom will keep writing books , and us lot here will keep on bickering.

@Outta Here Who decides that these Elders are " Spiritually qualified men " ? Wasn't it Anointed men that judged in the early Christian Congregations ? But now it would seem that the Anointed are told to sit back and keep quiet. And @Anna Thank you for this topic and your comments.

Must be why the JW Org is failing then, because they don't have love.

She is just another person. Why the hero worship ? “We’re Jehovah’s Witnesses, so we don’t do that. That is sooo funny Her being a parrot to the JW Org

Every government in every country is corrupt. So does that mean that all criminals should go unpunished ? The 'world' is run and controlled by Satan the Devil, but God's word says that the authorities stand in place with God's approval at this time. Therefore if God allows those authorities to remain in 'power' it would be going against God not to show respect for those authorities.

But surely Billy if these problems have been going on for fifty years or more, and the JW Org has a bethal/head office in each country , then surely someone within each head office should be up to date on all procedures. These are not new problems. The GB or their legal department has 20 years worth of accusations on record just in the USA, and probably much more earthwide. I cannot see any excuses to any of this. And if all Elders were told to report everything to the police and/or outside authorities then it would probably make their lives a lot easier. It could be announced from the platform in every KH that all types of crimes reported to the Elders would be reported to the authorities. Then people would be able to make the decision whether to tell the Elders or not. Apart from some strange idea of wanting to know how many pedophiles are in the JW Org, what is the point of just keeping it all on record ? Keeping records is not protecting anyone. And our neighbours are supposed to be everyone, so the protection of everyone, especially children, is important. How can keeping internal record protect people outside the Org ? Are the Elders going to follow pedophiles around all day to keep them from attacking people outside ? Tell the authorities, the Police, then the matter can be dealt with by those trained to deal with it.

Download Dear reader, as you may have heard via the media or via our internet channels, Utrecht University is commissioned by the Ministry of Justice and Security to conduct an independent investigation into how Jehovah's Witnesses deal with complaints of sexual abuse. This research is the result of a motion unanimously adopted by the House of Representatives. Reclaimed Voices has tried to do this by talking to politicians who eventually drew up this motion. Now the University of Utrecht would like to hear background stories from people who themselves had experienced abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses. They also like to hear from people who know about someone else who has been abused. The stories can be shared anonymously with the university, but you can also decide to leave your name and contact details if you wish. All information will be treated confidentially by the University of Utrecht and these stories will NOT be shared with others. As chairman of Reclaimed Voices, I would like to ask you to consider cooperating with this research. You thereby make an important contribution to the research. The questionnaire of this research can be found via this link: https://usbo.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_4HkMbQjHlM0uhMh You can decide for yourself which information you want to share with the University and what not! Thanks for your cooperation. best regards, on behalf of the board of Reclaimed Voices, Raymond Hintjes Chairman This may already be on here, but better to be sure. It's good to get the word out there to genuine victims and their families. And to all those who support real truth and feelings for others. The more response from the more people in the more countries, then hopefully the quicker it can all be dealt with. Then maybe the GB will have to admit how wrong they have been in their ways of mis-dealing with Child Abuse and deliberately hiding Pedophiles in the JW Org and Watchtower Soc'.

And so it continues. Earthwide. @TrueTomHarley I hope you are keeping up to date.

Quote @TrueTomHarley But it is the ones that lawyers adopt because they seem provable that count. Really ? I thought all truth counted. i thought all Victims counted. But TTH seems to say that if it's not in the courts then it doesn't matter. I wonder why ? Oh yes, because if it's not in the courts then the JW Org are not in trouble for it. TTH doesn't care about the victims. To TTH the victims are just collateral damage. As I've said before the whole truth will never be known because Elders protect each other and work against victims. Elders destroy evidence and deliberately tell lies to protect the Org. The Elders have permission to tell lies from the GB as the GB say it is 'spiritual warfare'. And the Elders get to keep their positions of 'authority', ruling over the congregations. Oh Tom, what are you trying to protect ? and why ? The Org is a complete mess. Everyone knows it. Why are you hiding yourself from the truth ? But i suppose TTH cannot back down because he seems to have written books about it, and he would look foolish if he suddenly back tracked.

@TrueTomHarley Quote "It is not possible to mishandle what you never attempted to handle in the first place." Ah is that how they think they can get away with it then ? They listen to the details but don't help. But aren't the Elders supposed to be, a rock, or, a sheltering place from the storm ? No ? From the news report " According to the lawsuit, Blais, now in her 40s, first spoke out about the alleged abuse when she was 16 years old. She sought help from her parents, another Jehovah’s Witness and an elder — members who act as spiritual leaders in different congregations — but says she was discouraged from reporting the abuse in order to protect the community. " Now if that is true it helps to confirm what I and many others believe, that Elders and others within the JW Org try to keep it all secret. This 16 year old girl needed help but was told to just keep quiet. Was she still being abused at 16 ? Was her father an Elder ? Presumably it will all come to light in the court case, if such actually happens. But one good thing is that it gives opportunity to other victims to speak up now. As the report says, it would be very difficult for one individual to take the JW Org / Watchtower soc' to court. The Org would have top lawyers, but one individual could not afford such. So a large group of victims working together makes sense. But of course TTH and others still will not agree with any of it.

What ? Why ? HERO WORSHIP OF HUMANS. I thought JW's were supposed to worship GOD through Jesus Christ. Oh dear the Org gets worse

But TTH and others will just pretend it's not true. They will call it apostate lies.

You people are impossible to talk to sensibly because you worship the GB and it's Org so much that you are blind to the truth of it all. Anything a victim says, that you don't like, you simply consider them as liars. Anything that an investigation finds out, that you don't like, you simply say they are twisting facts or making it all up. Some of you cannot accept the truth about the JW Org. You can accept that the Israelites offered their children in the fire to Molech, but you think that the GB and it's Org are above any such badness. You can make it known about Catholic priests and others committing Child Abuse but when people make it known about JW Elders you say it's lies or 'just apostate rumours'. TTH says " An JW leader committing CSA is rare. Not unheard of, but rare. Elsewhere it is the pattern. " Tom likes to pretend that the JW Org is so so different, but unfortunately it isn't any different. Oh yes, slightly different, the JW Org keeps as much of it secret as it can, and it withholds evidence and destroys evidence too. The JW Org also tries to stop investigations by those with a legal right to do so. A bit strange when God's word tells us to obey the law of the land and to be in subjection to the Superior Authorities, because those authorities are in their place with God's approval. Now if the GB actually believed God's word and therefore followed it properly, they would tell all those brothers in positions of responsibility to cooperate fully with all investigations and to hand over all information asked for by those authorities. The Bible calls it being in subjection and 'going the extra mile'. I'm sure you all know the scriptures well.

Seems there is big news from Canada then. More secrets will be revealed. TTH can continue with his sarcasm but it will not protect that JW Org.

Quote "An JW leader committing CSA is rare. Not unheard of, but rare. Elsewhere it is the pattern." Because it is kept hidden, kept quite, kept secret. Hence the GB don't want to hand over the TWENTY YEARS worth of Child Abuse accusation files that they keep 'safely' stored away. But the whole truth has to be revealed one day. The scriptures tell us, there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed and nothing done in the darkness that will not be brought out into the light.