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JOHN BUTLER

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Posts posted by JOHN BUTLER

    JW.ORG Defines Lap Dancing

    in Topics

    Posted

    It seems the GB or some JW's just love to think about and talk about SEX 

    We've had masterbation talked about here. 

    We've had oral sex talked about here.

    We've had tight 'pants' / trousers showing off 'body parts', talked about here. 

    Now lap dancing. 

    It is slightly funny but also a bit worrying. Are the GB or some JW's, perverts, that they cannot stop thinking about or talking about SEX.

    Seems to remind me of an Otis Redding song, something about 'You don't miss your water , till your well is dry'.

    Someone here missing more than their water ?  :) 

    Pressuring children to get baptized before they learn the truth

    in Topics

    Posted

    I believe Jesus was 30 years old when he presented himself for baptism to do his Father's will. 

    But, in my opinion, there is competition between families, and even between congregations, to get the most children baptised. 

    At assemblies it's 'who is getting baptised today?' How many getting baptised today ?  

    It is so competitive, and so unchristian. 

    Well, if what is on another post is true, 5 year old children are getting baptised in some countries. 

    TrueTom vs the Apostates!

    in Topics

    Posted

    I get the feeling TTH is like a clever drugs dealer.  The clever drugs dealer gives away small quantities of drugs to get people started on taking them regularly. Then when the people need the drugs, the dealer starts charging them money for them. 

    Perhaps TTH is giving away 'samples' of his 'works' just to get people 'hooked' on his books. Then, he will start charging high prices. This time next year he'll be a millionaire. :) 

    Forced "new light", but only slightly

    in Topics

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Anna said:

    Paragraph 15   :................ Does this mean that before an allegation of abuse can be reported to the authorities, two witnesses are required? No. This requirement does not apply to whether elders or others report allegations of a crime.

     

    You really cannot be bothered to understand what I'm saying so i cannot be bothered to continue answering you. 

    If you feel completely happy with the Gb and it's Org, so be it.  It seems you are beyond help.  

    Forced "new light", but only slightly

    in Topics

    Posted

    Wow TTH and Anna working together to undermine TRUTH, and disrespect God and Jesus Christ.

    Well TTH is an author and I suppose whatever sells his books for him.

    And Anna has her head in the sand and is just hoping the situation will just blow over and go away.

    Neither have any thought for any of the victims of Child Abuse. 

    And it seems to be the American way to just live with collateral damage. Just push those people underground and forget about them. 

     

     

    Forced "new light", but only slightly

    in Topics

    Posted

    31 minutes ago, Anna said:

     

    I don't see a problem there at all. The two witness rule is irrelevant when it comes to reporting to the police, as has been mentioned several times already. The two witness rule is only for elders handling the issue.

    The Elders won't handle the issue without two witnesses because they will call the victim a liar or slanderer. Then if the victim keeps complaining the Elders will have the victim disfellowshipped for either of the above reasons.  

    Forced "new light", but only slightly

    in Topics

    Posted

    1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

    Everything in life is action/reaction and it would be foolish to deny the substance of this remark. That said, the parallels hold true in almost all groups, the Boy Scouts even exploring bankruptcy, with but one notable exception. With Jehovah’s Witnesses, it was members engaging in CSA and leaders were deemed lax in reporting. With almost everyone else, it was the leaders themselves committing the abuse, something rare with Witnesses.

    I will credit crusaders that their activity had brought this about. Once ones leave the faith, people lose track of them. It is easy to say ‘out of sight, out of mind,’ and they did not allow this to happen. They should seriously congratulate themselves.

    Many have publicity stated that their ‘opposition’ is only so that Jehovah’s Witnesses will fix their ‘broken’ policies. Now that they have been fixed, one wonders if their opposition will stop, or even turn into advocacy in view of the overall benefits of the Witness faith.

    Members have been given the clearest possible direction that there should be no obstacle or objection to their reporting whatever allegations or realities they feel should be reported. Few observers will hold out for elders marching them down to the police station at gunpoint to make sure that they do, even if the most determined opposers will insist upon it. Few in lands where there is respect for freedom of worship will require that elders be agents of the state.

     

    Are you deliberately avoiding the point. The TWO Witness rule is still in place. 

    And I quoted Anna as saying that Pedophiles do it in secret, hiding what they do. 

    So in fact the JW Org is no further forward. The Org will still allow it to happen because Pedophiles will still know that they can get away with it within the congregational setting.  

    A question. If the Police / superior authorities can work on such cases without two witnesses, what can't the Org work on such cases likewise ? 

    Is the GB telling it's congregants that the 'two witness rule' honestly applies to Child Victims of Child Sexual Abuse ?

    If that is so then the GB are not Christian in there thoughts or actions.  Matthew 18 v 6.

     But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who have faith in me, it would be better for him to have hung around his neck a millstone that is turned by a donkey and to be sunk in the open sea.

    Now this scripture could have two meanings, a, literal children, b, spiritually young ones / new to the wisdom of God.

    However, in both cases it applies here. Physically young children would be spiritually young children too. 

    Disfellowshipping use to be 6 months- now it’s 1 year

    in Topics

    Posted

    7 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

    In previous decades, when someone was disfellowshipped, they were told their time would be 6 months. Now it’s a full year?

    Why did that change from 6 mo to a year? and are they getting more ppl to come back with the increased time? With the less members staying in the org, you would think they want to lower the “jail time “

    Also are there any other religions that gives you months or years of time out, if you commit a sin, even if you actually want to come back?

    Also any former elders here? Why is there a standard set time for everyone? And why can they reject someone’s letter who wants to come back? Don’t they need more members ?

    I never even knew there was a 'keep out' time. I cannot think of any scripture to back that up.

     

    Apostles, Judas, GB, Raymond, Satan, Holy Spirit

    in Topics

    Posted

    52 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

    “The Witness organization cannot be expected to defend itself on social media, if on any media. It takes the scriptural view of Jesus at Matthew 11, noting that grumblers slam him no matter what he does, before finally saying, ‘Don’t worry about it,’ “wisdom is proved righteous by its works.” It is like David who kept mum as ‘all day long they muttered against him.’ ‘It is like the plowman who knows that if you look behind while plowing, the furrows get all flaky.’ They don’t do it. The common view of opposers is that the Witness headship is telling members what to do, while it cynically manipulates all from above. That view is wrong. They practice what they preach and they do it themselves. The organization headship cites Hebrews 13:7 about ‘imitating the faith of those who are taking the lead among you.’ They don’t go on social media at all. They prefer a less raucous channel, and content themselves with news releases at the website that inform but do not kick back at the critics.

    “It is scriptural. It is proper. But there is a downside. By staying mum on specifics, essentially our enemies get to define us to the news media who refer to a cover statement about “abhorring child abuse” as “boiler-plate” and then go to former members who will eagerly fill their ears with accounts that we could counter by adding context but don’t. What’s a reporter to do? He goes to who fills his ears.

    “It will fall upon the Witness journalist to do it, if it is to be done, and there aren’t many of them. If fourteen years of blogging, not shying from controversial things, does not qualify me to take a shot at it, what does? If you are in a spiritual paradise, or even a vacation paradise, you do not have to concern yourself with removing the trash. It may be even dangerous to do so, because there is broken glass and used syringes. It’s not for everyone, and maybe for no one. But I thought I’d give it a go, and I at last got under this fellow’s skin, the big baby.”

    ...

     

    If it was up to me, there would be an ‘Opposer Servant’ in each circuit. He would say: ‘Look, follow Matthew 11 if you can. But if you can’t, if you simply must have a specific reply to the negative publicity that is becoming frequent fare for mainstream news outlets, here is training on how to deal with them.’

    Regarding my book itself, I repeated the thought:

    “The book is not recommended to all Witnesses. Read it if you want a specific reply to charges laid against the faith. For those able to focus upon forward motion only, the book is not recommended. For those not, it is. The line that invariably gets the largest applause at Regional Conventions of Jehovah’s Witnesses is: “Would you like to send your greetings to the brothers in Bethel [headquarters]?” The hard work and integrity of these ones is appreciated by all. So not everyone will feel the need to check out every derogatory report.”

     

    @TrueTomHarley    I see you are pushing your book again. Well I suppose it saves on paying for advertising :) 

    As for the line :-

    The line that invariably gets the largest applause at Regional Conventions of Jehovah’s Witnesses is: “Would you like to send your greetings to the brothers in Bethel [headquarters]?”

    Well when you are preaching to the converted / brainwashed, what would you expect.

    I expect Hitler got the same amount of applause back in the day too :) 

     

     

    Forced "new light", but only slightly

    in Topics

    Posted

    @Anna  Quote "  .. the main objective of ANY action would be .. "

    Yes of course the main objective would be to try to prevent further occurrences of child abuse within the JW Org. 

    BUT, that would be the main objective, not the only objective. 

    The GB still hide behind 'laws of the land'. They only walk the one mile that have been ordered to walk (as in the scriptures) 

    But the Bible says Walk two miles when ordered to only walk one. Go the extra mile. 

    Anna answered Srecko's comments from her one selfish viewpoint and she made it so clear that she in only interested in sticking up for the JW Org and it's GB. 

    Sorry Anna, Srecko made some good recommendations and you tried to shoot him down. 

    And one answer in 'How would it help stop further child abuse' is simple.

    It would make the naive congregants FULLY AWARE of the Child Abuse / Pedophilia problem within the whole Earthwide JW Org. 

    Whereas right now most of then DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT 

    Why ? Because they are TOLD not to visit such forums as this. Not to use internet websites that may be 'of the wrong influence' etc... 

    They are either wrapped up in cotton wool, or, they are fenced in with threats from spying Elders. 

     

    THE TIMES THEY ARE A CHANGIN'

    in Topics

    Posted

    I have no real idea of how to find out information about these things but some of you seem to have inside information. 

    This topic is aimed at the time lapse between new 'worldly information', 'worldly discoveries', 'worldly laws in different countries' and every type of worldly activity that affects the JW's in the Org.

    Such as how long does it take the GB to take action between something important happening in the 'world' then the GB having a reaction to it. 

    For instance Blood Fractions. How long had those Blood Fractions, of different types,  been available, before the GB authorised the use of them ?

    How long had the sex abuse reporting laws been in use or in force in different countries, different states, before the GB recognised them ? 

    How long did the GB know that the Superior Authorities scripture actually meant 'worldly authorities' before they changed it ? 

    The March Watchtower is proof perfect that the GB will act when pushed, not by God, but by problems within the JW Org.  But it would be good to have proof that the GB has deliberately delayed decisions on many things, even when a vast amount of information had been readily available. I don't have such proof but some of you might have.

    Why would the GB deliberately delay decisions ?  To maintain power over it's earthwide congregation. The GB recognise the power they have when people are anxiously awaiting a decision on an important matter. 

     

    Forced "new light", but only slightly

    in Topics

    Posted

    8 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

    To be clear:

    The new rules now allow elders (para. 15) to go to the authorities once an allegation of CSA has been made without fear of retaliation by headquarters. AND two witnesses aren't needed to do this (even though two witnesses are still needed for judicial action🙄). In addition to this, emphasis is given that the reporting party will not bring reproach on jehovahs name. Para. 14- "But what if the report is about someone who is a part of the congregation and the matter then becomes known in the community? Should the Christian who reported it feel that he has brought reproach on God’s name? No. The abuser is the one who brings reproach on God’s name."

    The new rules now ALLOW Elders, are now there's the rub, ALLOW. It only allows them to, but if it is an accusation against a fellow Elder they might not want to report it to the outside authorities. So nothing gained. 

    And if there are not Two Witnesses then elders may feel there is 'no case to answer' as there is no real proof. Remember that they have been indoctrinated for years. New rules might not make any difference to their attitudes. 

    Forced "new light", but only slightly

    in Topics

    Posted

    9 hours ago, Anna said:

     adjective: permissive

    1. 1.
      allowing or characterized by great or excessive freedom of behavior.
      "the permissive society of the 60s and 70s"
      synonyms: liberal, broad-minded, open-minded, nonrestrictive, free, free and easy, easygoing, live-and-let-live, latitudinarian, laissez-faire, libertarian, unprescriptive, unrestricted, tolerant, forbearing, indulgent, lenient; More

     

    No, Jehovah Witnesses have never been permissive or tolerant towards immorality of any kind. Anyone practicing these things is disfellowshipped.

     

     

     

     

    @Anna  you live in a dream world, brainwashed, deluded, by the JW Org. 

     I wish i had a much better memory,  because I thought it was you, a long time ago, that was telling me about cases you have known about. 

    Forced "new light", but only slightly

    in Topics

    Posted

    11 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

    But the cops might be immoral too, or even pedophiles also.Who knows. Would create a bigger problem.

     

    Um, Scripture, SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES ARE IN PLACE BECAUSE GOD WANTS THEM THERE. THEY ARE DOING GOD'S WORK IN THIS OLD SYSTEM OF THINGS. THEY ARE THERE TO PUNISH THOSE WHO BREAK THE LAW. 

    Sorry it's all capitals but you seem a bit blind. 

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