JOHN BUTLER

Um, Scripture, SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES ARE IN PLACE BECAUSE GOD WANTS THEM THERE. THEY ARE DOING GOD'S WORK IN THIS OLD SYSTEM OF THINGS. THEY ARE THERE TO PUNISH THOSE WHO BREAK THE LAW. Sorry it's all capitals but you seem a bit blind.

Quote "The unsettling aspect of the CSA cases is that many chose not to do it because they thought they might be bringing reproach on God’s name." The unsettling TRUTH is that it seems that MANY were TOLD it WOULD bring reproach on God's name. Now who would tell them such things ? Elders maybe ? Quote "It is not easy to get between a mama bear and her cub. You make it sound like a walk in the park. " Now i'm sure most of you do not believe a word I say, or even a word any victim says BUT It seems to have been proved in court cases that Elders take children on the ministry, and, Elders do private Bible study with children. The JW Org gives the appearance of being a 'Safe Place To Be'. A place where people can be trusted because they are 'serving God'. So, people trust others to spend time with their children. So yes it can be a 'walk in the park' for a prdophile. Quote "The two witness rule becomes irrelevant.. " How blind you pretend to be. In places where reporting Child Sex Abuse is THE LAW, it would rely on that Two Witness rule. Because the Elders would say 'no case to answer' without Two Witnesses, so the Elders would say 'nothing to report'. And of course you end your comment with sarcasm, trying to belittle us that complain and to mock the situation. Unfortunately i'm seeing that as typical JW stance now. But that W/t is proof that the GB are worried, not about people of course, about the money it's costing in fines.

Arrived home 2pm, 52 emails in my 'box'. don't know where to start. I'll quote your bottom line "I will reply to the rest of your post later. I can't right now. "

@Anna It feels to me as if you are angry with my comments and therefore need to tear them to shreds. Dissecting my words does not make them less true. The sun is shining here and I'm going out in my classic car, I'll answer comments later after the sun has gone down

Don't know if we are off topic here, but the topic is wide anyway and someone put my name on it. You are missing the collateral damage issues and that abusers are still hidden in the congregations. So i could not be active in the field ministry, trying to bring people into the Org which is a dangerous environment. Bring in lambs amongst wolves. Was it you that once said, that a person who is not actively against something, is actually a part of the problem. Well i felt like that anyway. Not being against it in an active way made me part of the problem. I was hoping that thousands of brothers and sisters would leave the JW Org. There was just too much involved. The congregants were not being warned in any way. They should have been told to be careful in case there was 'trouble' in the ministry because of people's anger due to the child abuse situation. But no, no warning was given. And you know that it was too dangerous for me to tell people inside the congregation because I would have been disfellowshipped for 'causing a division in the congregation'. Then the Elders would have been happy to say i was an Apostate. Wasn't one of the GB saying that it was all lies and all Apostate propaganda ? So what chance did i have in telling folks ? True that God will sort it all out in the end, but meanwhile thousands of children are suffering child abuse, physical abuse and emotional abuse, some of it by their own parents in the JW org. As for me not being in a good position anymore, it's quite the contrary. My position is now safe for me to talk. It's other people's problems if they are too frightened to want to listen. They know where I live if they want to talk to me. People don't answer my emails, that is their choice. My conscience is clear. I' not offering children to Molech.

The ones that I would like to talk to face to face, are too frightened to talk to me. ... Now that is either, frightened because they may get reported to the Elders, or, frightened that what i have to tell them will take them out of their comfort zone. And I am quite reserved on here actually. There are some on here that i don't even bother replying to. Because A. I think they are just a wind up, and B, I would totally lose self control, then probably get banned. I do have a tiny amount of common sense As for fault finding, I don't generally go looking for things but things just seem to crop up. Lots of people are mentioning 'faults' that i didn't even know existed in the JW Org. I have my main concern but that has been talked about enough unless any 'new light' appears. And I'm not meaning that new Watchtower..

Only just noticed this one. But when I mention the reality I get told off for fault finding or criticism

I thought it was you who was going into the hidden cupboard, but TTH is in there with you i suppose. A merry mix of people tickling each others ears. As for TTH I know him not. Only that he sells books for a living

This is soooo funny. There is no religious organisation that ... oh um just a minute, yes there is it's us. Just so funny. And the bit about : - "and composed of His spiritual remnant.. " Well um, only 8 of them as bosses at the moment it seems. But it's all good for a laugh.

No, it's probably because it WAS ELDERS DOING THE ABUSING. and as I've found out from experience, the Elders stick together to hide situations. Hence when i accused one elder of a serious thing, I got called a slanderer by another Elder and threatened with disfellowshipping if i didn't retract everything i said. Personal experience, in my opinion, goes far deeper that theory. But you tend to like to make up 'pretend situations'. Please remember court cases in the USA and here in UK have proved so much, that it is no longer theory.

Showing a very Christian attitude Tom. Have a nice day. However I think it shows cowardice and the lack of confidence in your own beliefs.

I suppose it tells me I should walk into a Police station and tell them directly.

(paragraph) 6 A sin against the congregation "We do not tolerate in our midst individuals who unrepentantly commit wicked deeds and who bring reproach on the good name of the congregation." Um, how is it then that some Elders have been found to have commited sex offencies against more than one child and a lot more than once per child, in a congregation ? Court cases prove this point.

I just wish i knew the Name of that young girl. I would have more to act on then.

Go directly to the police or a local authority. Do not go to the body of Elders. Trust no one, but know that God allows those secular authorities to be there to do His work. Now I'm presuming that the single mother and child has good standing in the congregation of course, so that no accusations can be 'slung' at them by the Elders in retaliation. Not so in my case, as I've already been accused of slander and was threatened of being disfellowshipped before i left.. I never did hear back from the Police that i contacted online.

Paragraph 17. What is the role of the judicial committee? " The elders do not interfere with law enforcement; they leave criminal matters to the secular authorities. " But they may withhold paperwork / documents /notes, from the police or authorities, even when requested to hand them over.

Any comments on JW Elders using Clergy Privilege to withhold information of child abuse ? Just a paragraph form a report online :- The two elders didn’t tell police. They, and the congregation, now face a lawsuit from the Delaware attorney general accusing them of violating the state’s mandated reporting laws. The defendants claim the elders were protected from having to report the abuse by a legal exemption for clergy. Is this a massive loophole ?

Yes but if there are not two witnesses then there will be 'no case to answer', especially if the accused is an Elder. And if there is 'no case to answer' then there will of course be nothing to report to the authorities. And if the victim continues to make complaint against the Elder, then the victim will be disfellowshipped for slander. I have the mag up online now. " 15 In the congregation, before the elders take judicial action, why are at least two witnesses required? This requirement is part of the Bible’s high standard of justice. " Is this really the case in Child Abuse ? Does it say this in the Bible regarding Child Abuse ? I think not. I think it refers to a disagreement between two adults. I do not think God or Christ would put this pressure on young children.

BUT I thought the Elders new ploy was to claim Clergy Privilege. Whereby they have the 'right' to keep it all secret. I'll have to look at that W/t. Probs good for a laugh.

I don't actually think God is watching every one of us every second. God has the ability to do so of course, but probably chooses not to.

OK Kid. Keep burbling. I like a good laugh.

Too bad then. Because God is far superior to any man made organisation. It is wrong to interchange those words. An organisation is good as God is a God of order not disorder. However, the organisation has to have God's approval and be guided by God's Holy spirit. The GB and the JW Org show that it does NOT have God's approval and is NOT guided by God's Holy spirit. So it is not doing God's will properly.

I don't want to labour this point as it's not too important but, it has been known for JW parents to put pressure on their children to do certain things or live a certain type of lifestyle. Now of course that is not God's fault, nor the JW Org's fault, but the parents have obviously been instructed/directed to bring up their children in a certain manner. Elders especially have to have their 'own house in order', keeping the kids under control. So maybe some children do not have any personal choices when they are young, and that could include their education... We know that 'in the world' some youngsters are expected to follow in the father's / grandfather's footsteps in the military for instance. So it is in the JW Org, some youngsters are expected to follow their parents into the ministry and for young men to follow into 'positions of responsibility'. I think that is why many leave home and leave the Org asap when they get a job, to get away from parental pressure.

But they seem to be told not to make it known. That's the whole point.

Sorry to upset you but I thought you would know that I'm no longer a JW, and i do not believe everything that the JW Org says. I have read how the W/T says for the Anointed to keep quiet and then says that the Elders are taking the lead. Do you honestly think Elders should overrule Anointed ones ? Well i don't.