JOHN BUTLER

How do you know they were not anointed ?

@Anna Quote "Well yes, that's because the other sheep weren't figuring in the equation yet. " So when did the 'other sheep' start to figure in this equation ? Because as I've always thought, the Greek Scriptures were written by and for the Anointed only. Where does the scriptures actually talk directly to the earthly class ? And i mean to not about.

@JW Insider Quote " I don't feel any remorse or bad feeling toward the Watchtower for recommending that I quit school to pioneer. " Um, don't the GB / WT have lawyers, doctors, skilled people of all sorts ? So all those folks quit school early and the higher education just floated into their heads did it ? I'm sure if one of them needed surgery they would be glad that some folks actually did take higher education. And all the planning for new builds earthwide needs skilled engineers, planning authorities, and more. All those people would have higher education. The GB /WT just want dumb folk that they can domineer.

@JW Insider quote "And there's that historical problem. If holy spirit is needed to understand (and I thin it is) then what does this say about doctrines that are constantly changed, sometimes back and forth." And constantly deliberately misused..... It says obviously that the GB are not who they say they are and that they are not guided by Holy Spirit from God or Jesus Christ.

@Anna quote " They wouldn't need anyone to teach them (perhaps such as the scribes and pharisees?). " Or a Governing Body ? Quote "These ones need spiritual instruction just like everyone else." The clue comes in the last 4 words What the W/t writer is saying is that the Anointed need instruction from the GB / Writing dept' just like everyone else. Quote "Otherwise you would be saying God discriminates on account of position, that somebody with a higher position has more value in God’s eyes than someone of a lowly position. " If 'Experiences' (in Yearbooks / Watchtowers etc) are to be believed, then it would seem that God / Jesus Christ has / have saved some brothers/sisters in certain circumstances, but not saved other brothers/sisters in other circumstances. Now both God and His Son work in their own ways, working together as one, and i would never question what they do. I am humble enough to know that their ways are much higher than mine. But they must have their reasons for saving some and not others. (If experiencies are to be believed). An example of a supposed 'experience' : A sister was on the ministry and knocked on the door of a man. The man turned her away. The man was later arrested for rape/murder of a woman in his own home. When questioned as to why he did not invite the sister in etc, as she had been his first visitor. The man said that she 'had a man stood either side of her', she was not alone. But the sister had gone in to the ministry alone, so the 'man either side of her' must have been angels guarding her. ... True or false I do not know, but I do know it was offered as an 'experience' at a meeting a long time ago.

@Anna Quote "God does not judge people by the job/ function they have, ..." Luke 12 v 48 b. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him. Says it all i think.

Reading that W/t, Paragraph 10 contradiction by GB against God's word. As for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but the anointing from him is teaching you about all things and is true and is no lie. Just as it has taught you, remain in union with him.” 1 John 2 v 27 But GB says in Watchtower "These ones need spiritual instruction just like everyone else." Look at the scripture they are using, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; Complete contradiction of God's word.

I think he is someone else using a different disguise. same old, same old .......

There I gave you a smile. I thought you were funny. So don't cry Kid. The old saying, 'If you don't like the heat then stay out of the kitchen', comes to mind. I give as good as I take from others, you included. I have no idea why you should let it bother you how I vote. But if it gives you a reason to say something negative about me then I'm sure that makes you happy. I love you Kid. Because God's word tells us to love our enemies. Matthew 5 v 44 Berean Study BibleBut I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

It's not about partiality, it's about position and responsibility. A manager would use a foreman / chargehand to give instruction to the workers, but the manager may like the workers as much as the manager likes the foreman / chargehand.. However the foreman / chargehand would have a higher position within the company than the workers would...

Did you ever ask your uncle how he knew what 'was right' with God ? Because at JW meetings it isn't God's opinion that is counted, it's the Elders opinions. One thing I did always notice was at assemblies, the young ladies / young sisters, well most of them, dressed in a way 'so as to be attractive to men'. Yes a lot of them looked stunning, but probably not modest. However one big reason for those young ladies / young sisters looking that way was the 'need' to find a 'marriage mate' within the JW Org. They found such ones at assemblies. It always looked so obviously competitive, and there seemed to be a push by parents to marry off their children.

John 10:16 New International Version I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. NWT “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold;n those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd. This does show a distinction. It shows that Jesus was only talking to the Anointed. @Anna Quote " I think the WT that talked about the anointed wished to highlight that there is no difference between the anointed still on earth, and the earthly class, apart from their future destinations. " You make this statement with nothing to back it up. I've asked you for scriptural backing and you refuse to give any. You do not even quote which W/T it came from. Maybe it just came from 'your own mind' ? I at least have given a scripture which proves that Jesus was talking to the Anointed only. He said 'other sheep' and said 'those too', meaning a different type of sheep / people.

Yep do it in secret. Just like the GB does.

@Anna Quote" I think the WT that talked about the anointed wished to highlight that there is no difference between the anointed still on earth, and the earthly class, apart from their future destinations. So if there is no difference.. " A bit presumptuous to assume that the WT is right. Just because the GB / Writing dept' says the Anointed on earth and the earthly class are the same, does not prove that they are the same. What it does is say that the WT are saying they are the same... If you want to hang on every word the GB / Writing dept' say, that is of course your right. But don't expect everyone else to do the same. How many scriptures did the WT use in full to make the point you've mentioned ? Can you repeat those scriptures ?

You are one of those that uses a lot of words to actually say nothing of importance.. Iti is possible that you are not a 15 year old at all, but someone using two or more different disguises. Like billy The Kid for instance.

Doesn't make much sense really because if a person was given a position of responsibility OVER others, then they would be 'above' the others, not 'equal to' the others. The GB are just using that idea, of being equal, to pretend that they are being humble. However what about the idea that ALL of the Anointed are the FDS and are 'over' those of the Earthly class ? But then we would still have to find the TRUE Anointed first.

What angers them is probably your attitude.

Are but young person, do you say my comment is lies ? Queen Esther (is she a real queen or just putting herself on high ?) says "I don't want such of comments under my daily texts!!" BUT she does not say it isn't TRUE. It's so funny that you call me Papa Bear. Because your GB are much older than me but you serve them. Just remember how Jesus showed up the Pharisees for what they truly were. Jesus didn't hold back from telling them the truth about themselves. Why should i hold back from telling the truth about the GB and the JW Org ?

You seem to be one strange young person.

"Pops", "Bud," from a 15 year old that thinks he knows everything. Oh dear. From a 'person' that uses a black ghost to identify with. Interesting, from a supposed JW. Quote "There's one person in particular who is a special case whereas I made promise to meet with her at least 2-3 times a week. It is something that is both personal and private." Um, are you a young man meeting up with a female in private ? That is a disfellowshipping offence you know. No two witnesses needed to accuse you of fornication. GB rules. Quote 'Anti-pauline is a legitimate expression'. Yes so is homophobia. What point are you trying to prove ? I love and believe Paul's writings to the congregations. However my feelings are that Paul was talking to those of the Heavenly Class / the Anointed, not to any of the earthly class. More is expected of the Anointed because they have been given more responsibility and have a greater reward. (Being in heaven with God and Jesus Christ is surely a greater award, even though a pure life here on Earth will be wonderful ). Quote "Can you give an example of non scriptural rules ? " The two witness rule concerning Child Abuse. The misuse of the scripture about the Superior Authorities, from 1929 to 1962 I believe. The accusation of fornication if a man and woman enters a place with no other Witnesses with them. ( But no accusation about two men or two women, which could be seen by others are homosexuality ). The Blood Issue rules that keep changing. The shunning rules, when a person 'resigns' from the JW Org. Reasons the GB use for disfellowshipping. (This touches on other subjects but would make another topic). So young person, I'm not your 'Pops' and I'm not your 'Bud'. You completely lost your side of this discussion by using those expressions, and yes, you showed yourself as Not having the Mind of Christ

Here in England it seems people have become too relaxed. My own brother is an Elder in a congregation and he says it is difficult to get people to go on the ministry. Some will not work on busy roads, some will not work where it is too hilly, others dislike the countryside where houses are too spaced out. I do know that many of the brothers and sisters are too materialistic, and spend too much time thinking about earning money. I know it seems very bad to say these things, but I tell you truth. However I think a lot of them enjoy spending time on the carts / trolly. Older ones can sit when not too busy and they usually only do about an hour at one time, so it is a good way of serving Jehovah joyfully. As for the Elders, i think they have many problems here in England. A lot of people have personal problems and it keeps the Elders very busy, and maybe takes the joy out of serving God. It must be hard work being an Elder, especially if you have a young family too.

I would not go to war in the real sense of going prepared to kill people. But I would work on a farm producing food. I would not vote for a person or political party. I would not become part of a political party. I would not salute the flag. But :- Matthew 5 v 41 "And if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles."

@JW Insider Quote "(Romans 13 could be invoked as "the sword" of the authorities -- paying back Caesar's things to Caesar, etc.)" Are but problem there was, Romans 13 was being misused at the time, to mean God and Jesus Christ.

@JW Insider Quote " Surely if the Bible says be no part of the world, and love your enemy, etc., anyone could easily interpret this to mean that support of the military is support of the "enemy" which is Satan's world and it's machinations. " I totally disagree with you on this, but as I've mentioned to @Anna that the Society / GB were misusing the Superior Authority scripture in Romans 13. If the Romans scripture had been used correctly then it would have meant they would have been submitting to those Superior Authorities that God had put in place. If it was 'orders from', then it was not showing 'support for', it was just being 'obedient to'. Big difference in my humble opinion.

Now this is very wrong indeed. However I'm wondering if this fits in with the misuse of the Romans 13 scripture concerning the 'superior authorities'. The Society / GB were still misusing this scripture until 1962 I think. So JW's could not use that scripture correctly and say they had to obey the Superior Authorities' meaning the Government / Secular Authority..... Because the Society /GB were telling lies and pretending it meant God and Jesus Christ. From 1929 to 1962, the Superior Authorities became “the Most High God Jehovah and his exalted Son Jesus Christ.” (This Means Everlasting Life (1950) p.197) Which is absolutely stupid as the scripture says :- Let every person* be in subjection to the superior authorities,a for there is no authority except by God;b the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.c 2 Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves. Note : 'stand placed in their relative positions by God'. So if you believed the Society /GB they were saying that the Most High God Jehovah, was 'placed in his relative positions by God'. It makes no sense at all. Now back to other stupid ideas. 1. that communal work was as bad as killing people. 2. that it really mattered who gave the orders. Which takes us back to Superior Authorities being placed in their position by GOD. And if the Armed Forces are part of the Superior Authority because they enforce that authority, then so be it. The fact that it was perceived being "the same as" shows a complete lack of spiritual guidance.