JOHN BUTLER

@JW Insider Quote "If he answered, “Yes” (which would have been a truthful answer), he was considered to have “compromised,” having made a “deal” with the judge, and thus had broken his integrity. "

Broken his integrity to whom though ? The Society / GB obviously. Not his integrity to God. 

So the Society / GB were demanding that these men serve the Society /GB..

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. 

Quote " In England, there were 1,593 convictions, including those of 334 women. "

As a side note. 

The 'big house' that i am 'caretaker' of, was known as Spicelands in the 1940's. It was run by Quakers and took in conscientious objectors. They were taught farming work and worked on the land around the house. 

50 minutes ago, Anna said:

I disagree with that. There are many things that are not done at all the same way today (for example the 2/3 majority vote). In fact things are very different only by virtue of the fact that every single person on the GB at the time of Raymond is gone, replaced by a completely different body, and that many of those issue that were pointed to by Raymond have been addressed. (This makes me believe that even today's members of the GB have read Raymond's book).

Things may be done differently, but are they done any better ? 

If it seems that one member ruled over the others back then, is it any different now ?

Can anyone here know exactly what goes on in a GB meeting ? Is it recorded and made public ? 

I'm thinking about starting a new topic about " The times they are a changin' "  A line from a Bob Dylan song i think. 

I laughed. i think here in UK that people are too lazy. Even those in the JW Org are lazy.

It is difficult to get people to do the ministry, but would be probably impossible to get them picking up litter. 

And there is a snobbishness, they think they are too posh / important, to do such things as pick up litter.

English people are strange and yes I'm English.  

I quote you "Much of the evil that is done in this world is the work not of individuals but of organizations."

Yes I agree with you. And the JW Org is one of them 

Hiding Pedophiles within it. Allowing CHILD ABUSE in the JW congregations in lots of different countries. 

Such countries as : America, Canada, Australia, UK, The Netherlands, Spain. 

The GB / JW Organisation has allowed Child Abuse to carry on in all those countries, and probably many more. 

This is truth and has been proven by many investigations and many court cases now coming to light. 

If you deny this then you are only telling lies to yourself. 

7 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I know you asked for a response, but you have sometimes indicated that you feel insulted by my responses, so this response is directed only to others who might have also wondered what I meant.

I was referring to the 16 years between late 1979, the last time when R.Franz was involved in the last vote on this issue, and 1996, when the Society finally was able to get a large enough majority for the second time, and the change was finally made. Many brothers who would not have gone to prison by being allowed to act upon their own conscience during those extra 16 years, actually did serve prison time during those years. 

Anyone who wishes can probably see that this is a point that R.Franz made in his book, here:

The twothirds
majority was gone. After further discussion, when another
vote was taken it read: Nine in favor, five against, one abstention.
Though still a definite majority it was no longer a two-thirds majority.
Though only a minority of the Governing Body favored the
continuance of the existing policy and the sanctions it applied toward
any who accepted alternative service (unless sentenced
thereto), that policy remained in effect. Year after year, hundreds
of men, submitting to that policy although neither understanding
it nor being convinced of its rightness, would continue to be arrested,
tried, and imprisoned—because one individual on a religious
council changed his mind. Witness men could exercise their
conscientious choice of accepting alternative service only at the
cost of being cut off from the congregations of which they were a
part, being viewed as unfaithful to God and Christ.
Surely such instances make clear why no Christian should ever
be expected to mortgage his conscience to any religious organization
or to any body of men exercising virtually unlimited authority
over people’s lives. I found the whole affair disheartening,
tragic. Yet I felt that I learned more clearly just to what ends the
very nature of an authority structure can lead men, how it can cause
them to take rigid positions they would not normally take. This case
illustrated the way in which the power of tradition, coupled with
a technical legalism and a mistrust of people’s motives, can prevent
one from taking a compassionate stand.
The matter came up on one other occasion and the vote was
evenly split. Thereafter it was dropped and for most members it
seemed to become a non-issue. The organization, following its
voting rules, had spoken. The Branch Committees’ arguments need
not be answered—they could simply be informed that “nothing had
changed” and they would proceed accordingly. The men in prison
would never know that the matter had even been discussed and that,
consistently, half or more of the Governing Body did not believe
they needed to be where they were.

...

If the published statements in the Watchtower and Awake!
magazines have any validity at all, then, when compared with the
statements of these Branch Committee members, they clearly identify
these young Witness men as either very vulnerable to brainwashing
or as already victims of indoctrination and mass persuasion.
In 1996, when the organization reversed its policy on alternative
service, many hundreds, even thousands, of these young
men were right then in prison, like thousands before them, but they
really did not know why the position they took, which led to their
imprisonment, should have been taken. They accepted a policy
without seeing a sound basis for it, they allowed their decisions to
be governed, not by solid evidence from God’s Word, but by
“group loyalty,” and “organizational loyalty.” These are the same
forces that give such potency to indoctrination on the part of what
Witnesses call “worldly” organizations. It is a case of doing what
one’s associates do and what the authority (the organization) says,
even though one finds the reasons given to be insubstantial, even
“artificial.” The view of alternative service these persons accepted
was clearly a “borrowed” one, not their own. Concern over what
others in their religious community would think, concern over reprisals
by the organization in the form of excommunication, certainly
must have weighed heavily in their thinking, causing them
to shut out any questions from their minds and simply submit.
These young Witness men stood before government tribunals and
declared themselves bound to an uncompromising position of rejecting
alternative service unless first arrested and tried and sentenced
to perform it by a judge, and they perhaps thought that such
was their own conviction. But their inability to explain the reason
for their stand shows that someone else has done their thinking for
them. Recall the Watchtower statements earlier quoted:

 

From what time period were those men told by the GB to 'go to prison' instead of doing alternative service ?

From what date until what date ? 

I notice you mention 1996, as when the Organization reversed its policy on alternative service.

The reason I'm asking is that in 1962 (or so I've just read) the 'Society' changed the meaning of the Romans 13 scripture, back to its original understanding, that is, that the Superior Authorities are the governments / rulers of this world. Hence, if a government / ruler of a country offered Alternative Service that was not going against the will of God, then the people should obey it. 

Romans 13.

 Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. ²  Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves.

Wow, now that is very clear, isn't it.

So if the Society / GB deliberately took this stand against those Rulers that had the authority from God to rule, then the Society / GB were in fact taking a stand against GOD Himself. 

@Srecko Sostar  Quote " Today, looking on my period in prison, jail, and obligation on going to army, I came to conclusion how decision to reject army service is more decision of WT Corporation aka JW Church than my clear conscience stand on  matter. Perhaps i assured my self it is my conscience, but in fact it was about behavior according to group (JW congregation) i was belong in that time. It was expected to do it that way. "

Srecko, I have tears for you my friend. The GB have a lot of things to answer for. 

I hope God removes the GB from 'power' and replaces them with a true Anointed class. 

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I know you asked for a response, but you have sometimes indicated that you feel insulted by my responses, so this response is directed only to others who might have also wondered what I meant.

I was referring to the 16 years between late 1979, the last time when R.Franz was involved in the last vote on this issue, and 1996, when the Society finally was able to get a large enough majority for the second time, and the change was finally made. Many brothers who would not have gone to prison by being allowed to act upon their own conscience during those extra 16 years, actually did serve prison time during those years. 

Anyone who wishes can probably see that this is a point that R.Franz made in his book, here:

The twothirds
majority was gone. After further discussion, when another
vote was taken it read: Nine in favor, five against, one abstention.
Though still a definite majority it was no longer a two-thirds majority.
Though only a minority of the Governing Body favored the
continuance of the existing policy and the sanctions it applied toward
any who accepted alternative service (unless sentenced
thereto), that policy remained in effect. Year after year, hundreds
of men, submitting to that policy although neither understanding
it nor being convinced of its rightness, would continue to be arrested,
tried, and imprisoned—because one individual on a religious
council changed his mind. Witness men could exercise their
conscientious choice of accepting alternative service only at the
cost of being cut off from the congregations of which they were a
part, being viewed as unfaithful to God and Christ.
Surely such instances make clear why no Christian should ever
be expected to mortgage his conscience to any religious organization
or to any body of men exercising virtually unlimited authority
over people’s lives. I found the whole affair disheartening,
tragic. Yet I felt that I learned more clearly just to what ends the
very nature of an authority structure can lead men, how it can cause
them to take rigid positions they would not normally take. This case
illustrated the way in which the power of tradition, coupled with
a technical legalism and a mistrust of people’s motives, can prevent
one from taking a compassionate stand.
The matter came up on one other occasion and the vote was
evenly split. Thereafter it was dropped and for most members it
seemed to become a non-issue. The organization, following its
voting rules, had spoken. The Branch Committees’ arguments need
not be answered—they could simply be informed that “nothing had
changed” and they would proceed accordingly. The men in prison
would never know that the matter had even been discussed and that,
consistently, half or more of the Governing Body did not believe
they needed to be where they were.

...

If the published statements in the Watchtower and Awake!
magazines have any validity at all, then, when compared with the
statements of these Branch Committee members, they clearly identify
these young Witness men as either very vulnerable to brainwashing
or as already victims of indoctrination and mass persuasion.
In 1996, when the organization reversed its policy on alternative
service, many hundreds, even thousands, of these young
men were right then in prison, like thousands before them, but they
really did not know why the position they took, which led to their
imprisonment, should have been taken. They accepted a policy
without seeing a sound basis for it, they allowed their decisions to
be governed, not by solid evidence from God’s Word, but by
“group loyalty,” and “organizational loyalty.” These are the same
forces that give such potency to indoctrination on the part of what
Witnesses call “worldly” organizations. It is a case of doing what
one’s associates do and what the authority (the organization) says,
even though one finds the reasons given to be insubstantial, even
“artificial.” The view of alternative service these persons accepted
was clearly a “borrowed” one, not their own. Concern over what
others in their religious community would think, concern over reprisals
by the organization in the form of excommunication, certainly
must have weighed heavily in their thinking, causing them
to shut out any questions from their minds and simply submit.
These young Witness men stood before government tribunals and
declared themselves bound to an uncompromising position of rejecting
alternative service unless first arrested and tried and sentenced
to perform it by a judge, and they perhaps thought that such
was their own conviction. But their inability to explain the reason
for their stand shows that someone else has done their thinking for
them. Recall the Watchtower statements earlier quoted:

 

So let's be blunt. The Governing Body sat on their arses in some nice room and decided other men should go to prison. There was basically no scriptural reasons for it. The GB just had that power over people to do it.

Now that proves how much those people were serving the GB. The GB did not give them the choice to use their God given conscience. It proves dictatorship.

Felix is a GB worshiper so I'm not interested in his opinions on this. 

As you have posted  "But their inability to explain the reason for their stand shows that someone else has done their thinking for
them."  That says it all. Case proven. 

Never known it here in England either Srecko. 

In that country where they are doing good practical work, they get treated so badly. 

Perhaps Russian authority thought the JW's would be liked too much by the people. 

Weren't the Egyptians frightened of the Israelites getting too powerful ? Maybe the Russian authorities felt that JW's were getting to powerful too. 

2 minutes ago, FelixCA said:

Thank you for proving my point on how you view the GB. JWinsider used you as a "fine" example. He was wrong to do so since it was a horrible example coming from a meaningless person.

You are totally weird Felix. i have not proved your point on anything. 

And your comments are not worth looking into. So I'll go back to listening to music on Youtube.

Anyone that tries having a meaningful conversation with you is wasting their time.

GB = 8 men who dream they are important. Just as you dream the same Felix.  

@FelixCA Quote  " I get the impression Butler believes the GB to be equal to Christ, not above him as you state. "

Felix you are a complete nutcase. A self loving nutcase at that. You follow the GB's example by putting yourself on high

Remember the scripture in Luke 14 v 11 Well you certainly exalt yourself... So it follows 

 For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”

You also follow the example of Space Merchant on here,. You start off talking to one person then you drag as many peoples names  into your rant as you can find. 

You know that your comments are complete rubbish so you hide behind a 'cat'. You may be man or woman, who knows. But then who cares. You say nothing worth taking note of. 

It's strange that you mention those in Russia as I was thinking about them today.

I wrote a comment on this forum about the 'secular authorities'. And i am wondering what the Witnesses in Russia are now thinking of this scripture. Obviously the Russian 'power of authority' have overstepped the mark. 

Romans 13  Let every person* be in subjection to the superior authorities,a for there is no authority except by God;b the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.c ²  Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves.

23 minutes ago, Queen Esther said:

Heart: Thoughts and Poems for the love of Jehovah

There is a lot of twist,

There is a lot of trouble,
In Satan's system,
Life is very tough,
And in the alert after the ban!

It is a great deal of injustice,
In the occult site!
In vain is a world of worship,
Dust is the worship man!

There is a lot of depravity
In a Hedonist world!
In barbarous inclinations,
And in professional blackmail!

Cunning and betrayal,
I'm on the agenda!
Media, cultivates the state,
By "drawings" to children!

It is, a great deal,
By "sins" in the site,
Life is very tough,
Sickness, death, and curse!

In the system, it is an "oasis"
With flowers, water and greenery!
Good angels, they have it in guard,
And Jehovah gives him life!

A people, bearing them,
The name, with dignity,
At houses, from gate to gate,
Saving, good people, from death !!

( unknown author )

The picture is really nice. I could live there  

However the poem seems a bit strange. 

Was it written in English or am i seeing an English translation from another language ? 

1 hour ago, Queen Esther said:

Saturday, January 26. 2019

I do all things for the sake of the good news, in order to share it with others.—1 Cor. 9:23.

Although we are simply imperfect earthen vessels, the message we preach can bring everlasting life to us and to those who listen to us. The apostle Paul’s love for the ministry moved him to work hard at making disciples. (Rom. 1:14, 15; 2 Tim. 4:2) That helped him to endure severe opposition. (1 Thess. 2:2) How can we demonstrate such love for the ministry? One way that Paul demonstrated appreciation for the ministry was by being alert to opportunities to speak to others. Like the apostles and early Christians, we preach informally, publicly, and from house to house. (Acts 5:42; 20:20) As our circumstances allow, we look for ways to expand our ministry, perhaps by serving as an auxiliary or a regular pioneer. We might also learn another language, move to another area in our own country, or even move to another land.—Acts 16:9, 10. w17.06 10-11 ¶8-9

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/dt/r1/lp-e/2019/1/26

Here is a perfect example of NOT being a spokesperson for GOD, BUT being a spokesperson for the GB and JW Org. 

Not using God's word the Bible but using JW Literature... 

That is how people outside are taught the so called 'truth'. But is it truth ? 

@Anna An example for you. 

@Anna Quote "but you still do have faith and trust in so many people." ...............  WRONG.

No we don't have milk persons (PC) delivering milk. I don't 'fly' anywhere. I have no faith or trust in medical staff, hence I had to be in excessive pain before the ambulance came and took me in to hospital with pneumonia, and I ask to leave hospital asap after treatment. Was only in three days, then recovered at home. I have no faith or trust in the Police force, none at all. But it is all there in its place, and God's word tells us that these things stand in place with His permission and to serve His cause at this time. 

On this latter issue, the Police. When I was being abused in the Children's home my feelings were that i could not report it to anyone as they 'were all in it together'. Children's home / Local Council - Government / Local Council - Police / Local Council-Children's Department Social Services.... There was no one left to report it to................... Even a few years ago when I finally got some of my personal documents regarding my time in 'care', most of it was 'redacted' / Blacked out. One page completely black. So where is any reason to trust ? 

You are probably right on one thing. It is no longer possible to lead anormal life.............  As for my brother, I sort of feel sorry for him. He has 'given' his life to JW org. If he lost it, it would finish him. He no longer contacts me. I can understand why, but you are right I no longer trust him...

Quote " With the Org changing the meaning of scripture, and teachings, I am assuming you preferred the previous ones better? Or is it because you think there should never be any change? "

The Creative Days being 7,000 years long, and us being in the 'Rest Day' of 6,000 years , then 1,000 years of Christ's rule. It made sense that all the days were 7,000 years long. God being a god of order not disorder............   But other changes are constantly being discussed on here, such as the F&DS once being the whole 'body' of the Anointed, but now only 8 men............ The teaching about 'this generation' .... the teaching about 'the superior authorities'.............. You don't have to look far to find them do you ? 

Quote " But that really is no different than putting faith in anyone else who is doing a particular job,   " 

Sorry you are totally out of line here.. You are talking about 8 men that dictate to over 8 million people, by pretending that those 8 men are the 'Faithful and Discreet slave'. Those 8 men misuse that title, which they have given themselves, to promote their thinking NOT God's thinking. 

As for the 'wrongdoings', they mount up to the heavens it seems. Giving themselves that title which means they put themselves above other Anointed...... Luke 14 v 11  answers that one............ Deliberately misusing scripture to rule over others.   Reasons for disfellowshipping/shuning, is another.... The Child Abuse situation, and on this one, if only i could find the video, I'm sure a member of the GB said it was 'all lies and just apostates causing trouble'...... 

Quote " Every time a brother or sister speaks about the promises in the Bible, they are being a spokesperson for God.. " 

Wrong...Most times a' brother or sister' speaks, they are being a spokesperson for the GB or JW Org.  They go out with 'literature' more often than they go out with GOD'S word. There is such a big difference. JW's are taught what to say. Please remember I went to the Ministry School meetings / Work book meetings. It is all written in there. What to say, what to offer. It's JW literature, not God's message through Christ.... 

Your last paragraph is of course right.... But that is because you give a direct scripture. 

How wonderful it would be if the GB and it's writing department, and all the other 'people/men' in positions of 'power'  within JW Org / Watchtower, would stick completely to scripture. And only to write the things which they have 100% proof of.  They wouldn't write much of course  

Have a great day Anna. 

49 minutes ago, Queen Esther said:

Friday, January 25. 2019

Guard against every sort of greed.—Luke 12:15.

Many today are obsessed with the latest fashions, electronic gadgets, and so forth. Therefore, each Christian regularly needs to examine his own desires by asking himself such questions as: ‘Have material things become so important to me that I spend more time researching and thinking about the latest cars or fashions than I do preparing for congregation meetings? Have I become so preoccupied with the everyday affairs of life that I spend less time praying or reading the Bible?’ If we realize that our love for material things is eclipsing our love for the Christ, we should reflect on Jesus’ words found in today’s text. Jesus stated that “no one can slave for two masters.” He added: “You cannot slave for God and for Riches.” That is because both “masters” require exclusive devotion. (Matt. 6:24) As imperfect people, all of us need to keep up our fight against “the desires of our flesh,” including materialism.—Eph. 2:3. w17.05 25-26 ¶15-16

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/dt/r1/lp-e/2019/1/25

Even in this topic the Organisation is put first. Read it through.

Firstly it says ".... than I do preparing for congregation meetings?

Then is says AFTERWARD, "...... that I spend less time praying or reading the Bible?’

See how it puts congregation meetings before prayer and the Bible. 

14 hours ago, Equivocation said:

@JOHN BUTLER So I guess that makes you an Anti-Pauline? Anti-Paulines reject whatever Paul's preaching, even removed or ignore it in the Bible itself. Disfellowshipped people are shunned by the congregation, not as much by family. Last I checked we are not of Judaisim where anything and everythi is 100% cut off.

You would have read enough comments on here to know how JW's treat those that are d/fed and those that leave the org.

Some Witnesses have no feelings, they just go by the 'rules' of the JW Org. For instance :-

Our only daughter (H) that is still in the Org, 'grassed up' one of our other daughters, to the Elders. 

(H) didn't even consult us, mum and dad, even though I was still a JW and my wife was attending meetings with me and was an unbaptised publisher. (H) had some information and she just wanted to go straight to the Elders. She has no love, no mercy, she is just a robot JW. But other JW's see her as a really good person. 

The daughter that was 'in trouble' chose to leave the Org. But even though i was still a JW I stated to everyone that I would not shun my daughter. And my wife and I kept in contact with her.  So like I say it is an individual thing. 

However, when I left the JW Org of my own choice, because of the serious Child Abuse problem within it, I was completely shunned by the whole congregation, around 120 to 130 people. 

Now you show me 3 scriptures that directly state that congregants should shun me for leaving the Org for a good reason ? 

In my honest opinion the scriptures are written for the Anointed, not the earthly class. 

Much more is expected of the Anointed because they have a much closer relationship with God. (And i mean the true Anointed, not your GB) 

But your comment is about your worship of men, the GB. You are trying to protect their reputation. 

You are not looking for justice or mercy. You do not have 'the mind of Christ'. You are like our daughter (H), just a robot for the JW Org. 

Using silly expressions such as Anti-Pauline. Does it make you feel good ? I'm not impressed. 

God and Jesus Christ know everything about everyone. They know when people are falsely disfellowshipped, that is, disfellowshipped for non scriptural reasons, and they know when a person is shunned because that person takes an action in line with God's word. 

Your GB have placed themselves on high. They think they have the right to make non-scriptural rules to domineer people, just like the Pharisees did. 

If you are happy with that so be it, but be careful they may just turn on you some day. 

10 hours ago, Equivocation said:

I remember the last time I confronted an apostate (who said he was a a Christian) and spoke of God, he said he'd kill me even though he was twice my age, even dared me to go to his town and that I'd be praying to wishing God was here in person when he is done with me. It didn't faze me that much because I was right about what I said because he was saying untrue things about God and about Moses and the Israelites. He was angry because he was corrected on the Old Testament. Even before that some of these apostates attacked the hall I was at, and caused someone who is connected to a sister to go to war against the apostates.

Always another day in the office it seems.

Well you would probably call me an apostate, but I'm only apostate to the JW Org. And yes I still believe in God and Jesus Christ. 

But you seem to want to jump on the JW bandwagon about apostates, so be it. 

@Equivocation  Quote " But if a suit and tie is that bad, why are you wearing a suit and tie, let alone clothing if you say it is tradition of man? " 

When i was in the JW Org, I obeyed the rules. Rules of men. I didn't want to deliberately cause trouble or to embarrass my family by being moaned at by the police, sorry I mean Elders, of the congregation. 

We had an Elder in the congregation, a big man, that really suffered with the heat causing him problems. He never wore a jacket or tie in the hall, BUT he still had to wear a suit and tie when he went up on the platform. They had to put a big electric fan on the edge of the stage each time he was on there. So tell me where is the love and consideration for that Elder ?

And yes they didn't question him for not wearing a jacket and tie in the hall, but I did get 'spoken to' once for not wearing a tie, hence in future I conformed. 

In my opinion it becomes 'traditions of men' when it is not scriptural but is still enforced by 'those in power', the GB down to the Elders. 

And yes certain types of clothing are traditions of men if dictated by humans.

This point has been proven by women in certain secular jobs having to wear high heeled shoes all day, when they would prefer to wear flat comfortable shoes. I believe this has got to the point of actual court cases. I think that proves the tradition of MEN in the true sense. 

And the suit and tie was supposed to represent decency, honesty, trustworthiness, etc. But in many cases it was just used to trick people into thinking that way. However, it has been carried forward to this day, as a tradition of men. 

So is it still necessary ? 

Quote "I rather trust in God and Bible understanding... " 

BUT maybe you are not, maybe you are trusting in different men, the GB. 

42 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

 God gave his intelligent creation freedom of choice. Jehovah made a beautiful angel in heaven along with myriads of others, he decided to become a resister of Jehovah's purpose later on and is called Satan. Jesus picked Judas, Judas changed afterwards. Governing body picked Raymond Franz, etc etc  Everyone intelligent creation can change.

You have been taught well. You are good at twisting things to your own purpose just like the GB does. 

But you have chosen a very sly way to accuse Raymond Franz. 

And anyway if you believe the GB are who they pretend to be, wouldn't God have chosen Franz, or possibly Jesus chosen Franz ?

@Anna You asked. What attracted you to what Jehovah's Witnesses taught'? Why did you become one of Jehovah's Witnesses? Surely there must have been something that you recognized as valuable?

I was fresh out of a horrible children's home (details I've written about before) and my brother helped me a lot. He and his wife were JW's and i sort of thought they are leading a good life and they are good to me. I tended to believe everything my brother told me about any subject. He's my older brother by 8 years, and I thought he had more experience of life than me so I trusted him to teach me the right things. He's now an Elder in a congregation in our hometown... And the people on 'ground level' were good and friendly. BUT that just makes it like a social club. I fell for it all. I did as I was told and didn't ask questions. It all seems to make sense. 

THEN, as time went on, the GB/JW Org changed the meaning of scriptures, changed teachings/doctrine, and well you know why I left. And the more I'm reading on here, the worse the Org seems to be. ... 

The  Org uses the word 'Truth' as a trick word. They are saying being in the JW org is being in the Truth. Hence any thing outside is all lies. It's done to kind of frighten people, that if a person looks outside all they will find is lies. But that is the lie. 

I think it's funny that JW's pretend they don't put their faith in men. Whereas it can easily be seen that JW's are told to believe what the GB tells them. JW's do not question the GB's words, hence why wrongdoing has been going on for so long in the JW Org. Proof from past Watchtowers shows that the Org presents itself as God's only organisation, and the GB as God's only spokesperson, and again the Org as the only means of salvation. And JW's do not question that.  

Quote "I am sure you have faith in your wife, in your children and others? "

You are totally wrong. I have faith in no human, and trust no human.. I'm married to my third wife, the previous two committed adultery. My childhood completely ruined my life. And no I'm not blaming, I'm stating fact. The emotional damage 'killed' me. I'm a shell. But you and others will never understand, only God and Jesus Christ can understand, and I will be judged by them.  

@Anna  Quote "those who have seen the ‘Truth’  transform lives for the better..."  Misuse of the word Truth. Truth is from God through Jesus Christ, NOT through the GB of JW Org. 

" and have experienced the liberation from Christendom’s false teachings (and other religions) and have seen the puzzle pieces of pure teachings of the Bible become a clear picture, .. "

You jest of course ? When teachings /doctrines change constantly. Twisting the meanings of scripture. Are you sooo blind. ? 

" and those who’s faith is grounded  in Jehovah and not mere man, "  It gets funnier. 

It seems to have been proved that no one should disagree with the GB now, and at that time one member of it . . 

@JW Insider " Fred Franz was always considered the only one who could come up with a change in scriptural doctrine, or "new truth" as we called it. Creating the Governing Body in about 1971 didn't change this. In fact, when a few people started speaking up with questions about doctrine, the GB was expanded with a lot more " F.Franz loyalists" who would never dare vote against F.Franz "

" faith in the Governing Body "  Your words Anna. 

And then you dare to compare the GB with Jesus. "..whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life” "

I know the GB think they are equal or even above Jesus but .... 

JESUS PROVED WHO HE WAS.  It was so clear to those alive there at that time. 

Why do you try to compare those times with now ?  There is no comparison on some things. 

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I think that this is entirely the wrongheaded approach, to look at the shortcomings, real or imagined, of those taking the lead. Instead, you should look at what they alone have managed to accomplish.

The best man at my wedding was a man 15 years my senior, crude in some respects, but he taught me how to look over a used car before purchase so as not to get fleeced. He was a lifelong mechanic with an uncanny instinct for instant diagnosis.

He told me about a time when the book & computer, but not common-sense, young mechanics were unsuccessfully trying to fix a car. They had reached an impasse. All the diagnostics they ran confirmed that there was nothing wrong with the car. “There must be SOMETHING wrong with it,” Bud said, “since it doesn’t run.” He found the problem promptly & and it was some quirky thing not mentioned in any book.

With the GB, the situation is just the opposite. You can scrutinize them for all the dumb things that you think they are doing, the things that you have proclaimed “a big worry.” Or you can look at 

and say “They must be doing SOMETHING right, since it DOES run.” Whatever is or is not “wrong” with them, if history is any guide, they or theirs will fix. It will not be “debate” with someone who has demonstrated only a mastery of the “harangue” that will do the trick.

I think you would willingly follow the GB over a cliff if you were told to. You'd think it was God's will.  

It's not dumb things the GB do, it's deliberate things it seems. 

If a religion does a hundred things they are bound to get a few of them right.

More people are turning to Islam but it doesn't make it right does it ? Lots of religions are 'still running', like an old car.

2 hours ago, Anna said:

This actually this isn't as crazy as it sounds. The reasoning was based on (if I remember correctly) that in order for fornication (which was the only grounds for divorce, according to what Jesus said) to occur, the partner had to "become one" with another person, and that could only happen if the other person was of the opposite sex. That is Biblical.  In Jehovah's eyes you cannot become one with anyone but the opposite sex, and you cannot become one with another creature either for that matter.  The problem was, that the word 'fornication' was understood to be the same as 'adultery'. However, fornication (porneia) is different. It covers any kind of sexual relations whether with a human or animal. It should have been clear from the start because the scripture in Matthew doesn't say "whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of 'adultery', and marries another commits adultery." It says on the ground of 'fornication'.

But we were not the only ones who understood it this way:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/divorce-adultery-law-rules-gay-lesbian-same-sex-affairs-why-dont-they-count-a7533766.html

 

So, the thoughts of men. Or it seems the thoughts of one man. 

To be sure God had no part in such reasoning. 

It seems homosexuality and probably sex with animals was enough for God to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, but not enough for divorce it seems  

 @JW Insider  Quote " Fred Franz was always considered the only one who could come up with a change in scriptural doctrine, or "new truth" as we called it. Creating the Governing Body in about 1971 didn't change this. In fact, when a few people started speaking up with questions about doctrine, the GB was expanded with a lot more " F.Franz loyalists" "

Is this the truth or just your opinion ?  If it is truth then it is a big worry. 

So who rules the GB now then ? 

Each thing i read makes the JW Org seem worse and worse, hence i ask if this information above definitely true or just opinion ? 

Reminds me of when ONE Elder threatened to disfellowship me for slander. He thought he had that authority.