JOHN BUTLER

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

 

On 12/27/2018 at 6:07 PM, Space Merchant said:

@Jack Ryan Still nothing, Jack? You do realize when it comes to Da'wah, it is still in progress, right?

You seem to be speaking as a Muslim here. 

https://www.islamicity.org/3143/divine-methodology-of-dawah/

Instructions to muslims ? 

Looking at it from purely a Christian viewpoint, and as i see it the only viewpoint that should be used, then Muhammad was a false prophet. And i further conclude that the faith of Islam is from the Devil. 

There is no fence to sit on. There is no halfway mark. A true Christian must be open and tell the truth on such matters.

Islam is false religion and Muhammad was a false prophet serving the Devil. 

It is good that you have knowledge and that you make clear the lies that some people tell of such matters, but the facts remain as I have stated here.

Christian love to you SM.  

On 10/19/2017 at 11:27 PM, Outta Here said:

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/leben/zeugen-jehovas-schon-wenn-ihr-mich-mustert-ist-das-ein-erfolg-1.3689191

Don't know why this came up form so long ago but it was there.

Evi M and the other writer do not seem to have a clue about the JW Org. They live in a dream world. They are so brainwashed they can no longer recognise it. It would be funny if it were not so sad. 

why the need for so much politics from those that pretend to serve God ?  Are God's people no part of this 'world' ?  

I am having a thought about getting together with whomever, here in the UK,  and having some leaflets printed

The leaflets would be to warn people about the Child Abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses Organisation.

Distribution would be by hand in the form of witnessing work.  

The idea would be to bring praise to God whilst warning people, especially people with young children, against association with the JW Org at this time.

Warning would also be to JW's that they can expect problems when on the ministry. Problems arising from people having the true knowledge about the Child Abuse.  

Of course the leaflets would have to be factual, truthful, and not insulting. 

Does anyone know how legal this would be to do this in the UK ? 

Why not  go back to the sign at the top and bluntly answer if any of those accusations are true or false. No excuses or sidelines. Are they true or false ? 

And for my point why was Muhammad even needed ? Didn't Jesus do all that was necessary ? 

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

That is it!  You are another person with OCD.  There is only one subject on your mind and you return to it in everything you say.  .....  I have seen not one thing positive come from your mouth!   My question is this:  can a sweet fountain bring forth such bitter water - and only bitter water?  (obsessive compulsive disorder)

You are still being a parrot of the GB. You seem to know of nothing else.  As for me I'm not bitter and i do have very positive thoughts. Your problem seems to be that you have to insult me because I do not agree with your way of thinking. But remember that Jesus did not agree with the Pharisees' thoughts and deeds either. If you opened your eyes and your heart it would be easy for you to see how wicked the Governing Body of JW Org are. But you prefer to stay blind and just have your ears tickled by the GB's puppets, the Elders. 

My goodness. i only read the first couple of paragraphs and could see how political you were being. you seem to have a very big problem in your life there. 

As for Islamophobia, we all know that the religion of Islam is wrong, so will i now be accused of being Islamophobic ? If so I do not care. 

God will sort it all out when He is ready. He will use Jesus Christ to judge us. Not much point us trying to judge governments or politicians as we know they are part of the Devil's world. 

And as for your comment " and humans need to have these laws written on their willing hearts...... "

Um, the JW Org will definitely need sorting out then, if God is to use it. The Elders will have to learn how to love people not domineer them. And of course the instruction would no longer be from 'men' (the governing body), it would be through Jesus Christ. 

But there will be new rules and laws, new scrolls opened. Unfortunately i probably won't be there to see it all. 

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

Well - put nicely -  I have seen many people call themselves anointed and then suddenly all goes upside down...... and not for the better.  They become bitter and opposing.  The true Spirit of Jehovah would help them to stay peaceful and yielding -   maintaining their joy even in the face of persecution....   A good example is Ananias and Saphira who tempted the Spirit of Jehovah.  They had swift judgment.  

 

Um, some might have said that Jesus was 'bitter and opposing' toward the Pharisees, when he called them 'offspring of vipers, hypocrites and like whitewashed graves'.  So you see, giving an honest opinion can be seen as bitter and opposing, especially if the recipient is in the wrong and doesn't want to admit to it. 

Are you then saying Jesus should have remained peaceful and yielding to the Pharisees? I hope you are not. 

Just now, Arauna said:

Mr Butler - you are the delusional one.  If you think that such a hateful disposition comes from God - think again...... 

Of course it doesn't come from God. It comes from the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.  They keep telling themselves they are important, by telling themselves they are the Faithful and discreet slave. And they have written or had written by others in the Watchtower, that some people who say they are Anointed are actually mentally ill. All you have done is acted as a parrot by copying the GB. 

Oh dear am I off topic. Sorry folks 

@Arauna If I have deviant sexual desires - I must learn to control it.  Wow, tell that to all the PEDOPHILES in the JW organisation EARTHWIDE. All those ELDERS that have sexually abused those poor little children for years. 

Self control. It seems many JW's have no idea what that means. 

There seems to be more of us that believe the GB will be removed.  Who really knows only time will tell. 

It seems I'm wasting my time on here. I've said the things I've wanted to say and i haven't learnt anything that will bring me any closer to God or Jesus Christ. 

Time to look for the door outwards. 

5 minutes ago, Kosonen said:

@JOHN BUTLER  Ok, that is a good begining. Then the next thing is to examine the Holy Scriptures.

And before I got the anointing I never thought that the Bible was written only to the anointed. And I still do not think that. So this idea is maybe promoted by the GB so that the other sheep would not bother to check with the Bible if GB explains the Bible right.

2Timothy3:16  All Scripture is inspired of God+and beneficial for teaching,+ for reproving, for setting things straight,* for disciplining in righteousness,+17  so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

I was pioneer for 5 years and not anointed and we pioneers were always taught to reason with people using scriptures. So worldy people should be able to understand scriptures even not being baptized.

We had the Reasoning-book for ministry also. So what prevents you to understand the Bible?

If you first pray to Jehovah for guidance and then you ask an anointed to show you from the Bible the answer, then you should be able to understand if the answer is true or just twisting of scriptures.

And you should never become a follower of men or women who are anointed because we can be mistaken. You should always remain only as Jesus' disciple. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

But on the other hand you will surely enjoy and benefit to be in company with good anointed christians. But make sure to always check if the anointed really explain the Bible correctly. You should never trust an anointed on face value. 

I as anointed would not be happy if you believed every thing I say without checking first with the Bible and reasoning making a logic conclusion.

Like prophecies, you can not find the answer in the Bible who exactly is for example Babylon the Great. That must be compared with existing entities and an examination must be made to see wich entity fit the description we find in the Bible. 

Can we argee on that?

I'll think on it.  I too have the Reasoning book and lots of others too. However it seems that even some of the JW books are now withdrawn / deleted, and not believed to be true. 

I've 'known' the JW Org since i was around 16 or 17, and I'm now 69, I'm not a newbee.  I must have thrown away so many of the old books. I remember there was a yellow hard back book, a green one, and so many others. I have the Aid book Insight book/s, large bible, Revelation book, Theocratic Ministry School book ( old school ), and so many more. But what is the point of it all, if none of it tells the truth ?  Who was it, some big Roman guy,  said 'What is truth ?' 

The Timothy scripture, 2 Timothy 3 v16 says,  'so that the man of God...'  Anointed maybe ? 

32 minutes ago, Kosonen said:

Have you prayed about the matter?

Many times. 

Quote @Witness  " It is through Holy Spirit that each individual who cares to find good "fruit" that anointed ones are to teach, can recognize it as such." 

Back to square one then. How are those of the Earthly Class supposed to know who are the true Anointed. If we do not know then we do not know who to listen to. 

For my part I've come to a brick wall in all of it now. In my opinion only the true Anointed can tell us the way, but God and /or Jesus Christ have not shown me who they are. Hence my feelings that I have no chance of surviving Armageddon / the Judgement Day. 

Also you say 'Jesus did tell us to dig' but as I've said before, in my opinion the Scriptures were written for those of the Anointed only, not for the rest of us. Hence Jesus was telling the Anointed to dig not us.

Jesus talks about us of the earthly class as, 'Other sheep' 'not of that fold'. 

Therefore it can be seen that Jesus is talking about us, not to us. 

26 minutes ago, Arauna said:

You're right - that was a lazy slip up of words.... I meant exactly the way you corrected it.  Thanks for correcting my spelling too!  I guess you do not know how many languages I speak and just assume English is the only one and English is my first language ...  your contribution tells me you only speak: emotional rant.

Yes - so let the elders be judged by god - but it seems you have appointed yourself as judge and executioner!  And you seems to assume that you know every situation.  Does the bible not say that God will judge those who judge unjustly?   Be careful that you are not one of them.

I honestly don't expect to survive Armageddon. As for 'emotional rant' that is sooo funny. 

Yes I'm an uneducated man, of English origin and having never left the UK. I think the spell checker on my computer saves me from many an embarrassment. 

BUT, I remember this scripture of Jesus saying  :-  In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. At Luke 10 v 22. 

I am indeed like a young child when it comes to accurate knowledge and even more so now my memory is fading.  But i think of this scripture every time that those 'wise in their own eyes' answer up on here. There are some, such as @Space Merchant who indeed seem to have masses of knowledge, but is it really of any use when searching for truth about God and God's purpose ? Is it what God wants from us, to be highly educated ?  Certainly not in the eyes of the GB, whom advise against higher education. 

I'm hoping that God knows that  all I'm doing is looking for truth. I don't expect to survive Armageddon but I'm hoping that God in His mercy, through Jesus Christ, will kill me quickly and with little pain.

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

If you really want to fight child abuse where it happens daily on a massive scale then put your life out there : go on a campaign to fight the child marriage, child female genital mutilation, pleasure marriages and sex abuse in Islam...... this will really bring you a lot of attention......  but NO, the reason why you bash JWs only on this subject is because you think they are easier to bash!   Like a true bully you make sure the victim is easy to bully.   Witnesses are easy to bully and deep down you psychologically know that - they avoid being confrontational - especially Americans.  Me - I am a little different.  I come from a strong culture.  I know the American mentality - lived and worked there for 15 years.

So go on be a real Hero - not just a miserable GB basher - go and fight the real cause... out there..... if you think it is really worth fighting then put your actions where your mouth is!

 

Oh dear, you sound upset. And you like many others are missing a point. I'm an EX JW. I left the Org for the one reason, CHILD ABUSE WITHIN THE JW ORG. 

You say I'm only picking on the JW Org. Yes you are right. Because it's only the JW Org I'm interested in. As an ex witness i still know that the 'world' belongs to Satan the Devil, so no point in trying to fight it. God is not going to 'fight it' he is going to destroy it. Simples.

Without boring others, I'll just say I'm a victim of child abuse of many forms, just so that you will know i have empathy for others who suffer.

Would you have called Jesus a Pharisees basher ?  I don't think so. Jesus told the truth about the Pharisees and I'm telling the truth about the JW Org and it's GB. If you don't like truth then simply don't read my comments.  

If you read every comment on every subject on here, you may notice that even those who are 'against' me, sometimes seem to agree with what I'm actually saying. There are of course those that i call 'wind up merchants' such as @Outta Here but they can be laughed at. 

11 hours ago, Anna said:

John, with all  respect, you need to put your money where your mouth is.

Someone  @The Librarian  possibly has started a page for 'those in good standing' in the JW org. I wonder why ?

Why is it so important to be 'in good standing' in the Org ?  Are you getting a clue Anna ? 

I trust very few people. I would hate to be drawn into a trap. I've been accused of slander once, once was enough. The information I have is not worth anything on it's own. Do you think the accused, if questioned, would give the name of the young girl that he sexually assaulted ? You see if there is no victim found, then the accusation, which would be seen as coming from me, would be seen as slander against the young man, and against the Honiton Congregation of JW's. So i would suffer the consequences probably in more ways than one. But maybe that is what some of you on here want. 

Whereas, the Elders of that congregation have both names, victim and accused, and will have taken notes from both sides. If you cannot see that they have much more evidence than i do, well then you are deliberately not wanting to see it. 

@admin   I am in a catch 22 situation here. Many folks are bombarding me with comments / answers / criticisms which are all totally off topic. I'd love to answer all of them but then i get moaned at for 'going off topic' or 'repeating the truths that i have mentioned before'. 

@Anna for instance talks about the pedophilia, but she doesn't moaned at about it. Whereas if i mention it I'm basically told that I'm off topic and just repeating the same old stuff. 

@Arauna Just made this comment Quote "Elders will have to keep an eye on the alleged perpetrator and if he moves they will let the next congregation know of the allegations."   WRONG. Elders will let the ELDERS of the next congregation know. BIG DIFFERENCE.  Congregants are never told that there is a Pedophile within their congregation. 

Quote " The law of legal and spiritual confidentiality has not been removed from the statutes! So within the LAW,  legal council need not reveal if a person is guilty or not.... and this also stands if a person has confessed to a priest or spiritual leader.....  So lobby the government to remove this law if you feel it is unrighteous." 

NO NEED to lobby a government because the JW Elders have a duty before GOD, not men. Some on here tell me I have  a moral duty to report what i know, BUT on the other hand those same people will stand by  the Elders that do not report things. 

Oh I'm sick of all of you making excuses for your GB and Elders, when you all know the CCJW is a complete mess and needs completely cleaning out and a replacement GB is needed. 

Have a great day fooling yourselves and unfortunately others too. 

11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The GB might be on a pedestal. That will happen naturally, just as it did for Apollos, Paul, Cephas, and some "superfine apostles" back in Corinth.

Kind of funny that today I sat in the audience with two members of the Governing Body and two Governing Body Helpers. They did not have special seats. Not one person in the Hall made any special attempt to talk to them. No one seemed nervous around them or tried to impress them. No one tried to take pictures. They talked in groups as normally as anyone else there both before and after the meeting. I know this doesn't PROVE anything, but if it had been different, I would have made a point of how wrong that seemed.

I was sitting one row directly in front of one, and I kept checking to see that the crease on the back of my slacks around my knees, calves and ankles still had some "slack," so I honestly seemed like the only person there who might have been a bit self-conscious around them. This same brother only commented once at the WT Study, and the other GB member, not at all. Although their wives made one comment each. (But who's counting?)

I do think that other JWs put these men on pedestals more than they themselves TRY to be put on a pedestal.

You've completely missed the point. It's not the face to face thing it's the, ONLY US 8 MEN ARE THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE, SO THE REST OF YOU ANOINTED KEEP QUIET.  And the ONLY US 8 MAKE THE RULES, AND YOU LOT OBEY THEM, thing. 

Even Hitler would not have to shout it out every time he went anywhere, power is just known. 

Anyone that cannot see that as true, must be either spiritually and mentally blind, or just worshippers of the GB. 

And why 'would that happen naturally' ? Again you miss the point. The people that treated the Apostles as 'gods' were not true Christians. 

Every JW should treat every other JW as equals, brothers and sisters, so why would anyone want to put the GB 'up high' ? 

11 hours ago, Outta Here said:

"Let sexual immorality and every sort of uncleanness or greediness not even be mentioned among you, just as is proper for holy people" Eph.5:3.

Is it conceivably possible that those who do as @The Librarian has noted are possibly deriving some sort of vicarious pleasure in this? I mean, if they know of incidents of abuse, part publicise,  and yet do not report them (even anonymously ) through the proper channels, what could possibly be their motive?

Well I did think that about your Governing Body actually. They do seem to go on about young men in tight trousers and masterbation. I was wondering if the GB were slightly kinky. And as for sexual immorality 'not even being mentioned', it seems to have been made clear by many victims that they have had to explain every detail of the sexual abuses against them, to a group of Elders. That seems to have happened on many occasion. So what can we think about JW Org ? The GB talk about sex regularly and the Elders seem to enjoy listening to descriptions of sexual assault. Add to this the now norn for the JW  Org, to accuse men and women of fornication just because they enter a house together, no witnesses, just accusations. 

And as for your sly accusation against me, it quite funny. Why? Because you know the exact reasons and you also know that OTHER PEOPLE ON HERE advised me NOT TO DO ANYTHING. And i took their advice.

@admin PLEASE NOTE THAT OUTTA HERE IS TOTALLY OFF TOPIC AND I JUST ANSWERED HIS SLY ACCUSATION. THANKS. 

2 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Oh? It’s not manisfested in any action, is it? Show me the avengers of wrongs flocking there.

And when people protest you say it' wrong. And when people stand up in Kingdom Halls and tell the truth about situations you say it's wrong. And when people start up organisations to help victims you and your kind will find fault in them. You Hypocrite. Not all of us think of the money. 

55 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

One unique bit of understanding that Arauna brings to the table is that if there is no money, there is no interest. There is no ‘scandal’ whatsoever in developing lands.

The world is a lawyers playground, with massive funds flowing for every real or imagined injustice from any organization with pockets, be it business, religious, non-profit, or government, with the barristers netting a third.

Only in the minds of you materialistic selfish people. There is  plenty of interest and fellow feeling from those that have suffered abuse of any kind.