JOHN BUTLER

Make your own excuses if it pleases you. I'm just laughing at you. I have info' on the Royal Australian Commision. I have info on Canada, supreme Court of Quebec. i have info' on the Netherlands. inc Reclaimed Voices. I have info on the UK, where i am. Charity Commision and IICSA I have info on USA, I have info on Spain, And i have some info on a case of child abuse within my ex congregation of Honiton Devon, which some on here have told me i should go to the police with. As for your stupid idea that governments were to blame, pathetic excuse. I would have thought you would have known your bible well enough to know God's rules and laws on such matters. Hiding pedophiles within the congregations, not telling congregants that there is a pedophile in their congregation. Calling victims liars and even to the point of disfellowshipping some to try to keep them quiet. Telling victims and their families not to report things to the Police. None of that shows love, empathy, sympathy, or respect, to anyone. And it is in total opposition to God.

Oh dear, so you do not know that I resigned from the JW Org. I deliberately left the Org because of the disgusting things going on within it. The fact that 120 to 150 people from my ex congregation stopped conversing with me because they are all frightened of the Elders and frightened of being disfellowshipped, is their own loss. I would have passed on the things I have learnt to them, and would have given them warnings, but they choose not to converse. I do not go in for revenge, i prefer facts of truth as far as i can establish them. But unfortunately doing so is difficult because of the fear within the JW org. By the way I presume you meant echo not eco. Quote : "The GB is part of a nation " So were the Pharisees and look what happened to Jerusalem. As for your parrot fashion OCD syndrome remark, you can easily be seen to be copying your 'gods' the GB. Keep on serving you 'gods' the GB of JW Org. The same way the Jews served the Pharisees and Sadducees and note how they finished up.

However I see you avoided answering the questions. Making excuses is of no use. If you're read many of my comments you will know that I've said, I do not KNOW the TRUTH about anything. What can be seen is the GB of the JW Org that have placed themselves on that pedestal, and you know it. Those 8 men that CALL THEMSELVES the Faithful and Discreet Slave. And I agree with you that they suffer from the same problem as the Pharisees. And yes logic does not work in them, neither does love, as can easily be seen with the serious problem of the Child Abuse / Pedophlilia within the JW Org.

Mr Butler - so loving ... How loving did the Pharisees and others think Jesus was when Jesus cleansed the Temple ? How loving did the Pharisees think Jesus was when Jesus called them hypocrites, and told them they were from their father the Devil ? True criticism is not from hate, it is from a love of Almighty God and His son Jesus Christ.

Perhaps you left because you cannot 'reason objectively'. Is the saying steel sharpens steel or something like that. I find this forum fabulous for helping me see different viewpoints. Of course I have my own views, just as you have. And yes i get a bit uptight as most people do in life. For instance, and of course you will not be interested, but to put things into real life perspective. Our hot water boiler has just, this morning, decided to leak, over all the clean dry linen in the airing cupboard. So i had to leave this forum and do some practical work, to basically clean up the mess and sort out more washing. No i don't leave everything to my wife. So just another tiny pressure to add to other things. What I'm saying is, when folks come to this forum, they may have other problems on their minds. So you may get remarks that are straight and blunt. But if you cannot stand the heat then get out of the kitchen. Don't use the excuse that the kitchen should not be so hot. And once again you make yourself look so silly. The echo chamber idea fits more with the JW Org, not those of us that have started thinking and investigating for ourselves. JW's are taught to obey without question.

Everything you have said about others, just perfectly fits the description of the GB. That is sooo funny. they want a bigger say - more control? Yes the GB do, that's why they hushed up the rest of the Anointed. People can use their power over others to deceive...... manipulate. Yes the GB do. Then constantly moving the goal posts to make sure they keep in control. The organization is being cleaned up as we go along .. Let's hope it is. Removal of the GB would prove it. A new GB would be great if they were truly prepared to serve God properly. And as for you loving of OCD, you are only copying the GB once again. The GB have said that some who claim to be of the Anointed are actually mentally ill. Do you or your GB honestly think you have been given the right to JUDGE. I thought Jesus had paid the price and was given the authority to judge.

Wow you are sooooo clever you can diagnose people's 'sickness' via the internet. Clairvoyant are you ? Be careful i think that is demonism. No, what the reality is, is simple. It seems that you do not like truth or logic. What you call bashing, would have been bred into you by the GB/Elders/JW Org. The real word is questioning, but of course the GB/Elders/JW org do not want questioning. I've been given to understand that Jesus' real name is something like Yeshua. Yes or No ? And i was always taught the tetragrammaton was YHWH not JHVH. Correct of not ? Now if that Tetragrammaton had a meaning / descriptive of God, then i would have thought by altering the letters it would alter the meaning. Just the thoughts of a simple man. and all those names you have quoted, could they have originally have started with 'Y' instead of 'J' Hallelujah - Wikipedia Hallelujah is an English interjection. It is a transliteration of the Hebrew word הַלְלוּיָהּ which is ... Translation, Holman Christian Standard Bible, and The Message, with the spelling "Halleluyah" appearing in the Complete Jewish Bible.

It's a quarter to 11 am here in Devon England, and I haven't been out of bed long. The reason i tell you this is to say that I'm not too wide awake yet. BUT having read through your answer to my comment, you seem to be agreeing with me on a lot of things, only then making excuses for the GB and JW Org. Quote : If that happens, do you see yourself believing that this organization must have been "God's chosen" one, just as Jerusalem represented an earthly organization of God's chosen ones? I get the feeling that you don't feel there is any significance to the JW Org in our day, and probably don't feel that big changes would really be a cleaning out by God's direct intervention. First off, I do not think the GB are up to the job, and that is probably of their own doing. I feel that the GB need removing and replacing. I find it strange that some folks on here get so upset by this idea. Don't they know how many people God has removed in the past. Don't they think on the punishments God gave to His own Nation. In my opinion it would make more sense to have a GB of 12 men (for obvious reasons, 12 tribes, 12 Apostles, although there were actually 13 of each) and for those 12 men to be from different countries / nations. To have basically 8 American White men (yes I know 7 are white and 7 are American ) but it seems a bit racist / nationalistic to me. Not in the true sense obviously but, one thing that has been said about the Heavenly Class, is that they know about our feelings and can have empathy, because they were once here on this Earth with us. So, along those lines, if there were 12 men from different countries, they would better understand the culture / way of thinking / behavior etc, of 'their own people' / people of their own human race. The JW Org. As I've said before, is like a Taxi. If it's going in the right direction you stay in it. If it goes in the wrong direction you get out asap. Now if that Taxi breaks down, you either repair it or replace it. So, the JWorg. It seems to be either going in the wrong direction or it's broken down and going nowhere. I would honestly love to see it cleaned up by God through Jesus Christ. Because of course honest hearted people desperately need an honest spiritual organisation. It make no sense to me, if we are sooooo near Armageddon, to have the Org broken down and in a disgusting state. I keep coming back the the 'Ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew' scripture. And someone else on here (sorry forgotten whom) said that this is already happening, and has given me direction to another web site. But I haven't investigated that yet and i will use caution when i do. My feeling are that true Anointed ones would not be on this here site /forum. And I feel they would be gathering together, not disagreeing with each other. BUT as I've said before, I have found in my life that I do not know the truth about anything.

If you cannot face the truth then go somewhere else if you need to be cuddled.

I'm in serious mood as it's 10.30 pm and I'm tired. So i have no idea what this riddle is about and probs will not find out. Goodnight to all.

There are none so blind as those that do not want to see. IT IS THE GB THEMSELVES THAT PUT THEMSELVES ON THAT PEDESTAL. The GB call themselves the Faithful and Discreet Slave. It is the GB that tell the others of the Anointed to keep quiet and not be noticed. It is the GB that say the rest of the Anointed are NOT of the Faithful Slave class. It is the GB that make all the rules and the Elders act like Policemen obeying those rules without question. It is the GB's system of GOVERNING that stops congregants making changes where changes are needed. YOU PEOPLE ARE THE ONES THAT WORSHIP YOUR GB. Stop trying to pretend that you don't.

Yet when i and others say that the Governing Body cannot be of the Faithful and Discreet slave because of their many faults, we are seen as wrong. But the GB can 'remove' Russell, because they suddenly say he wasn't one of them. Quite funny I think. Once again you are worshipping men. Your GB have become like gods to you.

My point was that Anna said it in such a 'matter of fact' way. God's name is Jehovah, no argument type of way. JW's are taught such and go out into the ministry and teach it as such. PARROTS, without questions. The only ones that would have any real idea of how God's name is to be pronounced are the truly Anointed ones. And that cannot be the GB of JW Org. Why ? Because of the way they have proved themselves to be the Wicked slave.

@JW Insider That expression came from my own head. 'Human foundation stones' Those two men R & R are sometimes put 'on high' and then sometimes 'disowned'. I find that funny. It seems they were once seen as part of the Faithful Slave and are now seen to be NOT of the Faithful Slave. Trust in the CCJW ? Well you will know my personal history of course, so when my brother introduced me to the JW Org (as I tend to call it) I found that it made sense and people were kind and helpful. However over the years the things I was first taught have been 'wiped out', and therefore things make less sense. And the fact that the Anointed have been pushed to one side and the GB have chosen to exalt themselves, by calling themselves the Faithful and discreet slave, whereas all of the Anointed were once the Faithful and discreet slave, this shows a dictatorship within the JW org. The Elders unfortunately are just Policemen, obeying orders from the GB through the 'chain of command'. A few bits of the teachings are still 'sound' but the whole Organisation is in deep trouble, more so with God than with men. Quote : 'encourages high morality'. UM questionable don't you think, in view of the massive amount of HIDDEN Child Abuse Earthwide within the JW Org. (and you will know i have some details of such a case within my ex-congregation). Then to hide the Child Abuse even more the GB start accusing adults (one male one female) of fornication, when NO WITNESSES are needed to confirm it. Nice try at a diversion. Quote ; "(I notice that, as an organization, we are almost able to laugh at ourselves with respect to some of these past errors and false doctrines. ". UM, don't you consider the facts of collateral damage ? Do you laugh at the number of people you have stumbled by false teachings ? Quote : "we don't produce pedophiles and child molesters" NO BUT THE ORGANISATION HIDES THEM WITHIN. Refuses to hand over documents which could lead to Pedophiles being prosecuted and put in prison where they belong. And if a person needs mental care / help then giving info to authorities would help that person. And WHAT ABOUT THE VICTIMS ? Do you think they are all liars ? Do you think all of them Earthwide have made it all up just to get money from the Org ? Quote "We should all push for more improvements even if this means exposing the seriousness of injustice to children, and exposing these issues to the light." I did i left the JW org, and that is what eveyone should have done. Trying to 'push for improvement' whilst in the Org would get a person disfellowshipped for 'Causing division within the congregation'. My brother is an Elder, i asked his advice before i made my decision. Quote :" just as so many other institutions have needed ". Stop making comparisons. Your Org is supposed to be No part of the World, so why compare with others that are Part of the World. Quote :" that it means God has removed his blessing from all of us, especially the leadership. I don't expect so much out of the leadership .. Matthew 5 v 48 You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Quote : " it's to make us trust the leadership of Jesus and Jehovah, all the more. " If the GB came off of their pedestal and DID trust God and Jesus more then they wouldn't allow so many false teachings / lies in the Org. AND the GB would allow ALL of the Anointed to be recognised and be of the Faithful Slave. However, i am in agreement with others on here, that the GB are showing themselves to be the Wicked Slave class, mistreating the 'domestics'. In my opinion big changes are coming. The GB have to be removed, in any way that God chooses. The JW Org may have to be destroyed, if God chooses to do it, or to let it be done. As in the destruction of Jerusalem.

@Witness So then, assassination of the Governing Body of CCJW, and complete destruction of CCJW and Watchtower Inc, yes ? Sounds drastic ? Why ? Just think about what God allowed the Romans to do to Jerusalem. The Nation of Israel were God's chosen people. They disobeyed God and paid the price. So, the GB and CCJW and Wt Inc. ............. However when is this gathering of the Anointed, proven Anointed that is, taking place ? I'm going back to this : TEN MEN CLINGING TO THE SKIRT OF A SPIRITUAL JEW. .......... WHEN ?

https://www.revealnews.org/article/jehovahs-witnesses-use-1st-amendment-to-hide-child-sex-abuse-claims/

https://nltimes.nl/2018/12/07/three-jehovahs-witnesses-buildings-raided-sex-abuse-investigation

In that case we wouldn't need an organisation and definitely would not need a Governing Body to 'teach us' lies. You make it sound poetic, almost romantic in you description, but it's not. God's name : YHWH or the Hebrew HWHY left to right. So where is Jehovah in that ? Why not Yahweh ? Who started the name Jehovah ? A Catholic Monk maybe ? And as for the way God wants us to live. The JW Org is way out of line in that case. I have to disagree with you completely Anna. Zechariah 8 v 23 “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people. It is not for us to dig, we do not have the guidance of God's Holy Spirit. Only the Anointed have that guidance. The Bible was written with Holy Spirit and only Holy Spirit will decipher it. Luke 24 v 45 Then he (Jesus) opened up their minds fully to grasp the meaning of the Scriptures, BUT they already had those scriptures. They had read those scriptures. So why didn't they understand them ? Obviously because they needed Holy Spirit and guidance to understand them. I think this proves my point. Now we should have the anointed to open up the Scriptures to us, but we do not know who the Anointed are. Why ? Because the Governing Body of JW org has silenced the true Anointed ones.

In the Devil's 'world' surely child abuse is expected to happen. But within an Organisation being used by God it should not happen. So is God using any organisation at this time ? It does not look as if He is. Or at the very least, in an organisation being used by God, EVERY known case of Child Abuse should be directly reported to the authorities by the people that have the authority within that organisation.

It seems God will have a bit of work to do if He wants to celan this lot up then Maybe He will just advise Jesus Christ to destroy the whole JW Org and Watchtower Inc. Then maybe God will start a new org using the name Yahweh.

If this news is true and if the investigation is carried out properly then it is good news, both for victims and for children. It would be nice to see this happen Earthwide, if done properly when evidence was available to show genuine reason to do so. I cannot understand why HQ in USA / Bethel USA / GB members homes, are not 'raided' for similar reasons. I presume there is some form of protection racket going on. But the cleansing has started and it will continue. If God wants the JW Org clean then He will have it clean, and if God wants the JW Org destroyed then He will have it destroyed. Jesus Christ will do the will of his Father. There will, one day, be a pure organisation here on this Earth through which people will serve God properly. Ten men clinging to the skirt of a ' spiritual Jew ', it will happen. Only then will people know truth and be able to face Armageddon.

Ah but now a little truth is being revealed. JW's are TOLD to stick to the Org. Believe the GB and the Elders. Ask NO questions. Because asking questions is seen as 'Causing a division in the congregation' and is punishable by disfellowshipping.

@Anna Quote "but there are certain fundamental things we need to know the truth about, and should be interested in finding out the truth, especially when it pertains to God and to those who claim to represent him here on earth." Read @JW Insider comment above which i have just answered on. When the GB keep 'moving the goalposts', making excuses, telling lies, then how is anyone supposed to know truth ? There is a scripture : Luke 10 v 21 In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. If we were the 'young children' to whom things were revealed, that would be wonderful, but i don't think we are. At the time of that prayer, Jesus was praying to thank God for revealing things to the disciples/apostles, the Anointed ones. And we should be 'clinging to the skirt of a Jew', the Anointed ones. But the true Anointed are not known to us. So how is truth supposed to be known to us ? I do not want to pretend to know truth

I'm laughing, sorry. But I don't know where you get all your info'. It's great, thank you. So basically every time the GB discovers something they know is wrong or bad, they make up an excuse for it. Quote "the Watchtower has explicitly used this as one reason for a recent change in doctrine... " doctrine /ˈdɒktrɪn/ noun a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group. "the doctrine of predestination" indoctrination /ɪnˌdɒktrɪˈneɪʃ(ə)n/ noun the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically. "I would never subject children to religious indoctrination" You seem to be proving more and more that it is all false and that the GB are not the Faithful Slave at all. I've no idea where it will all end, but for sure that GB have to be removed.

Actually I don't think there are ANY scriptures which say God hates birthdays or birthday presents. There are two instances where bad things happened on people's birthdays in the Bible. @Space Merchant said "It didn't stop the early Christians who wanted to ban such things" Could we have some enlargement on this please. The three 'wise men' that took gifts to Jesus on his birth. Were they offering 'birth-day presents' ? And ( and i promise you this is not of my own originality ), an Elder once said that the gift of the Holy Spirit from God to Jesus Christ, was given to Christ on his 30th birthday. A present at Christ's baptism.. Don't shoot me down for telling the truth of what I'd heard. Unusual thought that one. And what is that scripture about 'one man thinking one day is different from another, whereas another man thinks all days are the same' ? SM, I think 'the problem is drawn' when people poke their noses in where they are not needed. God Himself, through Jesus Christ, will do the judging. Who are we to judge our brother ? Straw and rafter come to mind. Pagans breathe you know. Maybe we should all stop breathing. Stopping everything just because pagans do it is not the true answer is it. Balance, mercy, love, understanding. Forgiveness, not being domineering, not pushing our own ides onto others. Qualities like those are much more important than obeying 'rules' laid down by other humans.