JOHN BUTLER

2 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Haven't seen a sister in a mini skirt for a long time.

You probably haven't seen a sister in trousers either as here in the UK the sisters are NOT ALLOWED to wear trousers. 

And yes the word is ALLOWED because the GB make the RULES and the ELDERS act like policemen enforcing the RULES. If a person breaks the RULES too often they get Disfellowshipped. 

Deny all you like, you are like an Egyptian having a bath, always in de-nile  

5 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

14 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. ² One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. ³ The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. ⁴ Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

I personally have never and will never do a black Friday shopping spree. But I don't think it's become a day of worship. Satan wants the world to think that and many of them do. But if a Christian shops on black Friday for the glory of themselves or someone else instead of God, or goes crazy and gets mean and nasty, then that Christian will be accountable to God for their actions and heart condition. But shopping at a store on black Friday doesn't disqualify someone from the love of God or means their impending destruction at Armageddon. If that would be the case I would be in deep doodoo because I shopped on Friday. And I celebrated the 327th day thanking God for all I have with my beautiful girlfriend and her beautiful girls.

Yep it t'ain't what ya does tis it ? Tis the reason why yer does it  

Sepptin' some folks worry cus they might be a stumblin' someone.  Tis always sommit to be worryin about. 

Mericans tis strange folks um be, en um ?  And um in lumbrin us British wiv all those 'traditions of men' from Merica. 

Finkin that Halloween started in Merica, and dis Black Friday stuff. What's next ? 

Oh how silly you are. Anyone can grab photos off the internet and pretend that it means something. 

I was once fooled by what i thought was a 'live video' of a terrible massacre, only to find out later it was a re-enactment of how somebody 'thought' it happened.............     I can easily relate that to you. you think you know how British people feel and act. 

It's not 'Christmas' that means a lot, it's the christmas break. The time off work, the rest period. time to relax and have fun with family and friends. And the people want to be left in peace, not talk religion. 

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

????

Please, where is boarder line when one thing stops and another coming?? Is such line existing or is that area including (not only black/white protocols, rules, paragraphs, list of blaspheme emotions, list of blaspheme thoughts, list of blaspheme words and list of blaspheme deeds) more than we think we know about it? 

I think how our decision to not say a word about such crucial things in our life, about Us and Him and what we feel and think about some thing or about all things, that make us feel this way or another, is suppressing the core problem of/in our life, and about our relation to God and people too .   

@Srecko Sostar   Srecko, your words are true. Of course we can express our feelings in words and it is not blasphemy. 

And in my opinion the scriptures were written for the Anointed, we are just the other sheep, not of that fold.  So again in my opinion only the Anointed can blaspheme against the Holy Spirit as they have a special relationship with God. 

Much more is therefore expected of the Anointed.  Matthew 5 v 45 

" so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, .... "

The sons are the ones with that special inheritance, the Anointed 

Matthew 5 v 48  You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

As for me I an neither anointed or perfect, so I'm sure God understands my shortcomings. Is this the same with you ? 

10 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

The optics are different from those that claim love is in their heart and with the very same breathe adhere to hate.

 

However, study the very intent it was written, and there is a considerable amount that challenges God regardless if we lend a blind eye to it.

 

Therefore, it should be noted that God sets his commandments upon humanity. Not the other way around.

 

The word fear is used in a callous manner. Matthew 10:28

 

 

Therefore, let's not ruin Thanksgiving for James and JWinsider, with technicalities. Happy Holidays.

 

Us of the Earthly class are all human and I'm sure God is well aware we are just dust. You seem to expect far more of us than God would i believe. 

The Anointed, whomever they are, maybe have more expected of them  

39 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Where is it said to blaspheme against the holy spirit by judging God? Is this what humanity has become when humans believe they are better. I think nimrod is a good example. I believe Pharaoh is a good example. Do Not blame God for the troubles that humanity has inflicted on themselves. 

 

I see no blasphemy, only disappointment and confusion. You are the second one using this idea of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. 

Trying to frighten people is not God's way of doing things. Showing love and compassion is God's way.  Of course JW's would not know, they only know strict rules from the GB and the fear of being disfellowshipped. 

55 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I hope you at least have a Thanksgiving celebration and a July 4th fireworks celebration!?!?!?

😉

No, I don't get involved with any traditions of men. .  And now I'm not a JW anymore i feel great that I do not have to comply with any human ideas of what I should do. I have peace.  

8 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

Probably in some of the more snooty or nationalistic areas of the UK that is quite right. In fact, many city Brits see it as a way of asserting national identity these days

.

Having been inner city most of my ministry time though, the multi-cultural mix makes for a whole different experience. Many don't see Christmas as particularly significant and it is just another day.

 

I think you have it a bit wrong there. 

British people, the working class ones, have to work almost 24/7 so don't get much rest and don't see their families often. 

The Christmas break is great for many families, as they are not working so can gather together for a big family happy time. 

They don't want to be talking religion on the door, they want to be having fun with their family. Talking religion is a serious matter, not just a casual natter. But they don't want to be serious at that time they want some fun time.  If you cannot see that then you are not showing love and consideration. And you probably don't understand British people either. 

34 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Spot on! Bingo! Good point. I've always felt the same way about treating one day as all others vs treating one day as more important than others.

• (Romans 14:5) . . .One man judges one day as above another; another judges one day the same as all others;. . .

But not so much worse than the way Black Friday has already intruded on Thanksgiving dinners by starting it at 5:00pm on Thursday and going until 1AM, so that our local "Best Buy" didn't open up again until 8AM on Friday. (Which also reminds me that "Best Buy" was playing Christmas music for persons on hold as early as October 30th this year.)

Oh I'm so glad I'm an Englishman in England. Not proud to be English, just happy to have been born here and live here.  And living in the countryside Black Friday means nothing to me. My wife and i went to view an 'in house' auction yesterday, which we would do any day. It's so nice to have a simple life. 

Looks to me like JW's have anti -holidays, so it's just as bad.  I've known JW's that will not eat a roast dinner on 25th December because they are frightened it will look like a Christmas dinner.   

As for pushing for a special effort on a stupid day, well it seems like a way of actually celebrating that day to me. It's like saying they know that day is special to people. 

And the Christmas day door to door witnessing is not a good thing. It's intrusive and rude. It's not wanted by people outside the JW org.  I did it once just to prove that i wasn't scared to do it, but it does not show love to people, it's just being 'pushy' to the extreme. 

So back to the scripture about ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew. A spiritual Jew of course.

I'll ask the silly question. Who really can we trust ?   Surely Jesus would make it clear as to whom we should follow ?

Just one more thing, totally different topic of course  . Should we call Jesus by a different name now ?  Jesus was his name as human but now he is spirit. 

As for the 144,000 being "without blemish and have no deceit in their mouths. "  With God all things are possible... 

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The more you read up on Dylan, the more intriguing he becomes. Though THE counter-culture icon of the 60s, he writes that he was never into it. He wrote those type of songs because they sold. He knew he had to break into the business somehow, and here was a sure point of entry:

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2011/05/bob-dylan-triggers-journalistic-wrath-in-beijing.html

(Wow, was I wordy. The relevant part doesn’t begin until halfway through)

I did start reading it but wow it's a bit long. I'll have to come back to it another day. 

But as i say, it's the 'sounds' that i like not the people. I'd be more interested in talking to my local road sweeper than to a musician that lives miles away an in a 'different world'.  But each to their own. 

11 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It ain’t me, babe.

 

Now that man has a great voice. I have 3 of his vinyl lp's. 

I know nothing about him but I love his sounds. 

Unlike Freddie Mercury of Queen which everyone knew was a homosexual and whos most famous song was about 'put a gun against his head, pulled the trigger now he's dead'  Murder.  OH so wonderful indeed.  The homosexual tag he had wasn't info you had to go and look for it was just generally known. 

Oh dear. Do Americans actually tell lies then ?  Oh yes of course, the Governing Body of JW Org do. 

As for Christmas, take a look in the 'God's Kingdom Rules' book. Pages 101 & 102

In 1883 the W/t knew Christmas was wrong, but they all, including the Brooklyn Bethel, kept celebrating Christmas until 1926.

Over 40 years of deliberate sin........... Yet how quick they are to disfellowship folks now.  Hypocrisy at its best. . 

25 minutes ago, Baruq JW said:

I have made some research, and found that:

ήλος is singular, as you said, Rando.

ήλων is plural.

https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/ήλος

So, Thomas is speaking about nailS.

It is not honest to take what suits us and change the word of God.

The Watchtower is not consequent in that matter. Sometime they mention nail, other time nails.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989240#h=53: Jesus appeared with the physical evidence of nail prints in his hands.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1965243#h=21: his hands being held, one upon the other, until the spike punctured and tore through the flesh

Now I think that will put an end to that story and that we can move on to something more important. 

It does not put an end as to why the GB / JW Org / WT put the picture in the Bible Teach book with one nail through the wrist. 

And I think you yourself said it was NAILS = PLURAL 

So it seems the W/t  GB, JW Org have no idea what they themselves believe. 

And is it also showing that Rando as being a deliberate lier ? 

6 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

As a younger man, having dispensed evil, with the very best of intentions, a pure heart, and ignorant as home-made sin, I know how it goes ... to my everlasting shame.

Saul did likewise until Jesus showed him how to serve properly. But as the Apostle Paul he did wonderful things. 

I think where there is life there is hope, although I have been permanently condemned by Rando.  

10.30 pm here in Devon England. The washing up in the kitchen sink is calling to me. When i've done that i will be allowed to go to bed.  Goodnight. May  your day be a pleasant one.  

1 minute ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

It's usually JTR, not JT, but they should be forgiven because they do it out of gross ignorance, not premeditated evil.

And I do not condemn ANYONE ... I just comment on stuff.

My apologies JTR 

3 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

if the above confuses you ... meditate that it DOES make sense ... and think about it until it really does.

Thinking properly is REAL HARD WORK!

That is why most people stay confused their whole lives , or are easily misled by which ever way the wind is blowing.

JT, the confusion wasn't about the words written, it was about you personally. 

Its like we are getting back to this collateral damage thing, like just throwing people away. 

2 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

We as Jehovah's Witnesses have the lamentable custom of having personal opinions, and teaching them as Edicts from God ... which does convince those not aware and educated about the very real difference between a deeply held personal opinion, and an Edict from God.

There IS a difference.

It is intellectually dishonest to have a deeply held personal conviction, and not clearly label it as exactly that, and no more.

Emotionally, I have a deeply felt belief in the "Rainbow Bridge"

Intellectually, I would never teach that, because it is ONLY a deeply felt complete fantasy.

There IS a difference.

I hope Jehovah God, and the people whose lives we ruin because of our adamant cultural fantasies, will forgive us, for screwing up their lives, and condemning them to a lifetime of isolation,  of loneliness, and of unnecessary fear and paranoia.

@James Thomas Rook Jr.     Luke 17 v 1 & 2.   It's called stumbling others JT. 

Your last sentence missed, condemning them to spiritual death and possibly physical death. 

And for anyone above 'private' (ordinary congregant) then why should they be forgiven ? 

https://biblehub.com/romans/14-5.htm

Best not to judge one against another.  I have no favourite singers at all, only sounds that i like. 

I like the sounds of people's voices and/or groups/bands. But i have no interest in the person/people.

To me it's a bit like a bus driver or shopkeeper. Musicians do a job like anyone else. If you like the sound, if it makes you dance or makes you feel happy then it's that sound, either the voice or the music, not the person... Unless you are a screaming teenager of course, but that is just some sort of crazy hero worship. 

9 minutes ago, Baruq JW said:

Actually, the handcuffs bind the wrists, not the hands.

Rando seems a complete nutcase anyway. 

Well done JT, we need some humour here, even though it was a bit sick  

10 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

 

Apparently so do many here. Especially those that claim they are in search for the truth, all while their hearts have become stone.

In ancient times, the wrist was considered part of the hand, or an extension of the hand. Simply feeling your own wrist will give a misunderstood conclusion that many have. The wrist is actually the 7-8 bones back area of the hand, not the area that is commonly associated between the hand and Ulna and Radius bones. Does this mean nails weren’t used? The body weight of a heavy person could sheer off so a rope was used.

Instead of viewing the nail in the void between the ulna and radius, go up about a centimeter or 2 to a little void right up to the hand. Then both inferences of hands and wrist by Christian and non-Christian writers are correct. What is not correct, the depiction of Christ nailed by the PALM.

The argument about, when the cross beam was used in Ancient Rome is the only viable discussion for debate.

Once again as indicated by James Thomas Rook. Drivel is irrelevant. Ad-holmium attacks are less relevant.

However, Rando, don’t look for civility from those that have openly dissociated themselves from the truth in search for areas to prove the Watchtower wrong, rather than satisfy a lingering discontent in their own personal lives. The devil work is never done. With some, given the chance, child abuse has become a thorn on their side. Numbers 33:55 I guess satisfaction won’t be achieved until they drive the Watchtower out of their lands. Russia succeeded, whose next to hear the shouts of, crucify them! With people from the inside supporting them, saying yes! Crucify them!

A sad event that plague’s us all, and has become a banner of hate (T) for others.

The context in John is often misunderstood. While some disciples were giving John an account of Jesus death, John was claiming UNLESS I SEE IT, I WILL NEVER BELIEVE IT. This is a denial by John, Christ had been killed in such a way. However, what did Jesus tell Thomas 8 days later? BELIEVE. Not only had Christ been killed in such a disgraceful way but had arisen.

What would a modern man say when confronted with such a supernatural event with the disbelief of modern times. Most likely, I drank too much, I took too many pills, I don’t believe what my eyes are seeing, DENIAL.

All except for Mormon Joseph Smith apparently.

KID you have been trained well by the GB and their JW Org. 

Picking parts of quotes to make yourself look good and make others look bad

But of course everyone on here can look back on the topic and see why i said what i said. Whereas you try to mislead people.

So do you agree with Rando and I quote him  : You stumbled yourself into Gehenna, but I won't allow you to stumble others... go on your way. ... Therefore, your sin has been retained and there is no escape for you.....  Consider Yourself Disfellowshipped..... you're not coming back legion....  no matter how hard you try...  

There you are Kid, Rando at his best don't you think. And you agree with him ? You think he has been given that authority ? 

On 3/19/2017 at 6:52 PM, Anna said:

Maybe this is not completely relevant to the discussion, but has anyone noticed in today's WT study (WT January2017 ) the illustration of Jesus on the stake, with the nails going through his wrists rather than through the palm of his hands? I haven't noticed this before, perhaps we have always drawn it this way and I just didn't pay enough attention. I remember reading somewhere some technicalities about the actual physical possibilities or impossibilities, and one argument was that the victim could not be nailed to a stake through the hands as the weight of the body would rip through the palms (sorry, this is so morbid) and the only way it could be through the palms is if the downward weight was distributed with the arms tied to a cross beam and the then the palms nailed (I guess for added anguish). In any case, when Thomas needed confirmation of Jesus' resurrection he said at John 20:25 .....“Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will never believe it.” Is this a case of a broad usage for "hand"? And could it mean anything from the fingers to the wrists, including the wrists? In some languages the translation of hand can be a little confusing because it can also mean the whole arm in another language. Only the context can give a clue as to what is meant, whether it is a hand, and arm, the forearm or the whole arm including the hand...This also got me to thinking about the translation of stauros, could that also encompass  not just a vertical beam but some horizontal beams?

Wow. So you do sometimes think the same way as me.  Oh dear are we both condemned ?  

Take that lightly Anna it was a joke aimed at Rando