JOHN BUTLER

32 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Jesus gave accurate knowledge about the more important things. He gave that knowledge to the apostles and had it written down so that we would have the same access to the more important things through the Scriptures. Having accurate knowledge about a lot of other things is nice, but it wasn't what Jesus had in mind. The very fact that there are teachings of higher priority than others was already shown in this verse from John quoted earlier. Also, the point is made in more detail in Hebrews:

• (Hebrews 5:12-6:3) . . .For although by now you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God, and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food. 13 For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. 14 But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment trained to distinguish both right and wrong. 6 Therefore, now that we have moved beyond the primary doctrine about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying a foundation again, namely, repentance from dead works and faith in God, 2 the teaching on baptisms and the laying on of the hands, the resurrection of the dead and everlasting judgment. 3 And this we will do, if God indeed permits.

I take it that we have most of the more important things in order. These additional details are just "nice-to-haves." And I see a lot of progress, not enough yet, but still a lot of progress on removing the less important things that we have admitted to getting wrong.

This is the Anointed man Paul writing to the Hebrew congregation, not writing to the 12 Apostles. 

Now, Quote : "I take it that we have most of the more important things in order." ........  But how would you know ?

This is what I'm saying, how can anything the GB says be trusted........... Luke 16 v 10 says, 

 The person faithful in what is least is faithful also in much, and the person unrighteous in what is least is unrighteous also in much.

So as the GB are unrighteous in what is least, then it follows ( as this scripture says) they are unrighteous in much. 

They are only making progress in blinding more people with rubbish. (Replace 'rubbish' with stronger word if you wish)

@JW Insider  Quote : So what does it matter if more evidence might come to light that indicates that the "stauros" was actually a two-beamed cross as depicted in traditional pictures?

What matters is that JW's seem to believe everything the GB say and do, so the GB have a responsibility to be 100% positive that what they write or picture is 100% right. 

Jesus' words at Matthew 5 v 48   He was talking to those that would become of the Anointed. 

⁴⁸  You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Are you going to argue with Jesus here ? 

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I suppose you are referring to the fact that most Witnesses think that "spirit-directed organization" refers to the idea that the persons responsible for directing the WT organization would therefore have a greater measure of Jehovah's holy spirit, or at least a special measure of holy spirit specifically for the work of guiding and directing what counts as "spiritual food."

*** wp17 No. 1 p. 15 Is It Just a Small Misunderstanding? ***

• The holy spirit also moves more knowledgeable Christians to come to the aid of those seeking greater understanding.—Acts 8:26-35.

*** w17 February p. 24 par. 5, 10-14 Who Is Leading God’s People Today? ***

• Christians in the first century recognized that the governing body was directed by Jehovah God through their Leader, Jesus. How could they be sure of this? First, holy spirit empowered the governing body. (John 16:13) Holy spirit was poured out on all anointed Christians, but it specifically enabled the apostles and other elders in Jerusalem to fulfill their role as overseers. For example, in 49 C.E., holy spirit guided the governing body . . . .  In 1919, three years after Brother Russell’s death, Jesus appointed “the faithful and discreet slave.” For what purpose? To give his domestics “food at the proper time.” (Matt. 24:45) Even in those early years, a small group of anointed brothers who served at headquarters in Brooklyn, New York, prepared and distributed spiritual food to Jesus’ followers. . . . .  the Governing Body to focus on providing spiritual instruction and direction.
• Evidence of holy spirit. The holy spirit has helped the Governing Body to grasp Scriptural truths not previously understood. . . .  Surely, no human deserves credit for discovering and explaining these “deep things of God”! The Governing Body echoes the apostle Paul, who wrote: “These things we also speak, not with words taught by human wisdom, but with those taught by the spirit.” . . . . can anything other than holy spirit explain the rapid increase in spiritual understanding since 1919?
• Evidence of angelic assistance. The Governing Body today has the colossal task of overseeing an international preaching work involving over eight million evangelizers. Why has that work been so successful? For one, angels are involved.

What I think that many persons might find confusing here is that the article specifically used examples of how wrong we have been in the past as proof of the direction of holy spirit, otherwise how would the Governing Body have been able to make so many changes to its own false doctrines. The same article included these words:

• The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870. Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food. So how can we answer Jesus’ question: “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave?” (Matt. 24:45) What evidence is there that the Governing Body is filling that role? Let us consider the same three factors that directed the governing body in the first century.
• 13 Evidence of holy spirit. The holy spirit has helped the Governing Body to grasp Scriptural truths not previously understood. For example, reflect on the list of beliefs clarified that was referred to in the preceding paragraph. Surely, no human deserves credit for discovering and explaining these “deep things of God”!

I think the biggest source of confusion is the contradiction between the idea that we don't yet have perfect knowledge and yet Jesus promised his disciples:

• (John 15:26-16:13) 26 When the helper comes that I will send you from the Father, the spirit of the truth, which comes from the Father, that one will bear witness about me; 27 and you, in turn, are to bear witness, because you have been with me from the beginning. . . . . For if I do not go away, the helper will not come to you; but if I do go, I will send him to you. . . .  13 However, when that one comes, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own initiative, but what he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things to come.

The contradiction is pretty obvious:

• The Governing Body claims to be directed by holy spirit;
• The holy spirit was supposed to guide Christians into all the truth when it was poured out in 33 CE after Jesus was no longer present;
• The Governing Body admits to a long list of errors going back over 100 years;
• Many of these new errors and false doctrines were introduced after Jesus was supposed to be present again in 1914.

The Second Adventists (and Seventh Day Adventist branch) resolved the issue by calling their false doctrines "Present Truth." If doctrines were found to be false and therefore changed, then the new doctrines were "present truth" and those past false doctrines were "present truth" at the time, even if time proved them to actually be false. Clever! It was based on a mistranslation/misinterpretation of 2 Peter 1:12. But in the tradition of Second Adventists, we (Bible Students/JWs) also needed to adopt the same solution, especially because we were promoting pieces of a chronology that was continually being proven false. For many years, the Watchtower used 2 Peter 1:12 to defend the idea of "present truth." We now admit that it was based on a mistranslation/misinterpretation. But it remained in Watchtower vocabulary for many years. At one time the doctrine has been so important it was capitalized.

*** w52 4/1 p. 219 An International Assembly in Rome ***

• those who had already come to the truth must keep up with present truth. They must appreciate what the Lord provides through his organization and study diligently.

*** yb88 p. 139 Korea ***

• The Watch Tower of August 15, 1914, printed a fascinating letter addressed to Brother Russell, stating: “I am a stranger to you in one sense; but I came to a knowledge of Present Truth through your writings just twenty-two months ago. For some time I have been anxious to write and tell you of my special appreciation of the Truth, but circumstances did not permit until now.

The real solution, I think, is found in Jesus' words about what the "spirit of truth" would lead them to. Truth is not the same as "accurate knowledge." Jesus said it would focus on three things: the truth about sin, righteousness and judgment:

• (John 16:7-11) . . .For if I do not go away, the helper will not come to you; but if I do go, I will send him to you. 8 And when that one comes, he will give the world convincing evidence concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment: 9 first concerning sin, because they are not exercising faith in me; 10 then concerning righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will see me no longer; 11 then concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

For other things, like this issue of cross vs stake, we should have absolutely no problem telling the truth about it. The truth is that we cannot be dogmatic. The truth is that we don't really have proof one way or another. It is NOT the truth to say that "Jesus was therefore executed on a single upright stake." But the truth is very accessible. All we have to do is say that, based on current evidence, Jesus may have been executed on a single upright stake, but there is also evidence that he may have been executed on a dual-beamed cross. It appears that both of these methods, and many others, could fall within the meaning of the term "stauros" found in the Scriptures.

So we have no reason to believe that holy spirit has not already led Christians "into all the truth." We even know the truth about cross versus stake.

Well it is certainly true that if you spin a long enough yarn some people might believe you.

I for one don't. 

You have written much that in real terms says little.  Let us put it simply. 

The GB are supposed to be of the Anointed. There are of course many more Anointed but the GB, those 8 men, pretend to be superior.

The GB pretend to be the 'Faithful and Discreet slave'.  Matthew 24 v 45.

“Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 

Or Luke 12 v 42

⁴²  And the Lord said: “Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time?

(The Luke scripture say s much more. )

So if your GB were who they say they are, they would indeed have a very special relationship with Jesus Christ and God.

Jesus in now 'basically' in charge, having received authority from God, so the GB would be receiving special spiritual guidance from Jesus. .. Jesus is not going to give false information or tell lies. So it is obvious that the 'food' the  GB are giving out is not from Jesus Christ or from God Himself. 

You have said that Truth is not the same as Accurate Knowledge... I would say that truth can only come from accurate knowledge. 

And why would Jesus give inaccurate knowledge anyway ? 

The proof is there for all to see. The GB are fake prophets. 

Well at least this topic, and in fact this forum gives many people good reasons to use their brains, do research, and get involved in deep discussions. Mental exercise is as good as physical exercise, and spiritual exercise beats all  .. Have a great day everyone  

13 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

Strange comment this.

Either you know what it means to be "guided by holy spirit",  or you do not.

If you do know, then the comment is malicious. If you don't know, then how are you guided? 

It's called sarcasm O.H. 

The GB pretend to be guided by Holy Spirit and  JW's assume that the GB are guided by Holy Spirit, BUT there is quite a lot of evidence that the GB are NOT guided by God's Holy Spirit. 

You only have to look through topics on this forum to see the evidence that the GB are NOT GUIDED by GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT. 

MALICIOUS ? Um, do i intend to do harm to the GB ?  NO.......

My hope is for Almighty God our Heavenly Father to have a clean Organisation here on this Earth, for Him to work through. Whether that be a cleansed JW Org, or a different Organisation altogether is God's own choice. 

My purpose is to warn others of the   misconception that the JW org is clean and upright and is being used by God at this time............. Because there is so much proof that the JW Org is not in God's favour right now. 

11 hours ago, Witness said:

I never said they were inspired!  I am pointing out that they claim they are NOT inspired!  YET, they expect obedience to every word that they “prophesy”.

Can’t you see the hypocrisy?   The GB are “Israel”.  God’s word is clear about prophets among His people, even those who “act like it”.  And, if someone is “acting” like a prophet of God, but gives wrong interpretations, they are false prophets inspired by demonic utterances.

For you, JWs!:

Reasoning Book:

 "False Prophets 
Individuals and organizations (1) proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that (2) do not originate with the true God and (3) are not in harmony with his revealed will." Reasoning from the Scriptures p.132

Please continue:

“At San Diego, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929 there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth Sarim. The Hebrew words Beth Sarim mean 'House of the Princes'; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there are those on earth today who fully believe in God and Christ Jesus and in His Kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth. The title to Beth Sarim is vested in the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in trust, to be used by the president of the Society and his assistants for the present, and thereafter to be forever at the disposal of the aforementioned princes on the earth.... It stands there as a testimony to Jehovah's name; and when the princes do return, and some of them occupy the property, such will be a confirmation of the faith and hope that induced the building of Beth Sarim. (Salvation, 1939, p. 311)

What an embarrassment for the organization. 

“The prophecies of Almighty God, the fulfillment of which now clearly appears from the physical facts, show that the end of religion has come and with its end the complete downfall of Satan's entire organization." (Religion, J. F. Rutherford, p. 336, 1940)”

Please, SM, stop being so narrow-minded, and protecting a leadership that comes as wolves in sheep’s clothing.  False prophets demand obedience which the GB does.  False prophets have lead many down the road of darkness and death. 

JWfacts.com has a very good breakdown of Watchtower leaders "acting" as prophets.  Read especially, the 4/1/1972 Watchtower, “A Prophet Was Among Them”  , highlighted in red.

"The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests (non anointed elder body who have replaced God's anointed priesthood) RULE BY THEIR OWN POWER; And my people love to have it so.  But what will you do in the end?"  Jer 5:31

 

 

 

Fantastic comment. But SM won't like it ofcourse  

@Anna Quote : ".were you really expecting Thomas to say " “Unless I see in his wrists the print of the nails"? 

My thoughts are that Thomas was there and he saw exactly how Jesus was killed. So if he indeed said hands then hands it would have been. (Unless you think Thomas lied ?)

However if the Greek word for hands could easily have meant wrists, then why would the GB not have it written as wrists ? After all they are 'supposed to be' guided by Holy Spirit are they not ? 

1 hour ago, Kosonen said:

The problem with the GB is that they don't approve anointed or not anointed JWs to come with alternative explanations to Bible verses. You just have to accept as JW the explanations GB provides how silly or stupid they sound. And you can not question a particular GB explanation. If you do that you are not allowed to be a part of the JW congregation any more.

Why that? I remember it was explained as if you don't trust GB, then you don't trust God or Jesus.

Exactly right. And that is called dictatorship. Those men, 8 of them now, put themselves in power as the Faithful and Discreet slave. And no one (in their opinion) is allowed to have a different opinion to theirs. If you voice a different opinion you will disfellowshipped for 'causing a division in the congregation'.  My own brother in an Elder and he confirms that this is the reason they use to remove people. 

The GB pretend they have the only route to God, whereas the bible tells us for sure that Jesus Christ is the one that is the 'doorway' between us and God. Proof of that being, we pray to God through Jesus Christ.  John 14 v ⁶  Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 

2 hours ago, Anna said:

What if.....

But what if the simple reason is that as we learn new evidence for things we grow in knowledge and so we are able to correct previous ideas? I agree, perhaps some of the mistakes are because of the influence of Satan, because he does not want anyone to know the TRUTH, but for me (at least) the important thing is that the fundamental truths remain he same. Those are the important truths and they are very simple. The rest is just "frills" (like frilly petticoats on a dress). If we get some "frills" wrong then to me it is not really important.

For example in this particular discussion: Knowing whether Jesus died on a cross or died on a stake is just "frills", the important fundamental truth is that we do not use whatever object we think it was in worship, because that is idolatry. 

You think it is just frills because you do not understand or do not want to understand the point i was making.

Is seems that most on here have missed the whole point of it. 

In the JW bible NWT, the GB have used the words hands and nails. But in that picture they have used wrists and one nail. 

Only one of those can be right. I prefer to believe the Bible.  The GB approves the Bible translation so I presume they believe it too.

So the picture must be wrong. Artistic licence should not be used to try to pretend lies are true. GB failure.   

7 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Tell me about. Ever had a guy threaten you with a Machete up close, moving about in a sword dance like fashion? Believe me, it took some time to calm the guy down because he came talking about things he read online and painted a crazy picture of us in his head.

Some brothers and sisters get it bad, even back in the day during the 1940s some were hunted in the same sense the KKK hunted African Americans. I believe one brother had been cut in a way that part of him had been removed. 

Even today it is bad and for some brothers and sisters on the other side of the globe it is far worse.

So what exactly had he read online ?   Because this was another of my concerns for others in the Org.

We had a brother murdered in my ex KH and i had been worried for other brothers and sisters. My concern was that with all the news about the Child Abuse Earthwide, bros and sis may get verbally or physically attacked locally when on the ministry. 

Hence i said it should be announced at  KH meetings, warnings should be given about this specific thing.  BUT of course the GB and the Elders don't want it discussed amongst the congregants do they.  The GB and the Elders have a 'duty of care' to tell all congregation members exactly what is happening and what the consequences could be. 

Although I've left the JW Org my wife still attends meetings and occasionally goes on the ministry. I worry when she is out there, I worry for her and for others. Just because they are too frightened to talk to me doesn't mean i have no feelings for them. 

The JW's go out into the ministry not knowing the things people in the 'world' know about the Org. That is a dangerous situation to put them in. 

7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Few comments could be more obtuse than this.

Nobody thinks that the Master is coming any second now more than the Governing Body.

Likely you have complained about that on other threads.

Really ? They thought 1914, and 1975, so surely they think he is late now  

7 hours ago, Equivocation said:

@JOHN BUTLER He isn't wrong. The Watchtower has never made any sort of claims of being an inspired prophet, and there's information to even further back that up. You don't have to like us Jehovah's Witnesses to realize that. What I do find funny is that you said you dont judge or assume things. Now look at you.

OK. show me exactly where I have said the Watchtower is an inspired prophet ?  I don't actually use the W/t as an example. I usually say  the GB and JW Org.

And who isn't wrong ?  If you mean S. M. then one of his faults is that he lumps us all together, Srecko, me and others.  If Srecko says something that SM doesn't agree with then SM on many occasions includes me in his reply. 

Please be 100% sure and have proof when you accuse me of saying / writing something. 

As for my opinions about the GB and the Organisation as a whole then i make true statements. If you call that judging ok so be it.

53 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If you by Christians means only JW, then i would make this kind of observation. JW members in each period of time received and accepted "The Truth" as it was in the specific moment when they became JW.

So, if someone been baptized in 1940 period, for him "The Truth" was been in one shape and form. For those in 1970 period, shape and form looks different then few decades before. For those in 1990 era, "The Truth" also changed shape and form in comparison to generations before, ....and until today same process is going on as well. We can call it "new light", "new understanding", "rowing" or with any other terminology that can arise and be invented, incorporated for justification why new interpretations are better, more accurate than old one.

To connect your comment and mine. Strategy by satan is to much perfidious for humans, to be able aware of apostasy. If JW of 1940 era thought how they clearly saw difference between two teachings and was sure how they had "The Truth", then how is possible that JW from 1970 era saw false teaching about 1940 JW brothers, and how is possible that 1990 era brothers was also been able to detected all false teaching that satan used in JW past periods for purpose to undermine and pollute previous periods of pure teachings of WT? And now modern JW also can see how his brothers from 1990 period was been under influence of teachings that was been undermined and polluted by satan, again.

What if process of never ending "new understanding" is nothing else but constantly present impact and process caused by devil and his influence by which he "poisoning" every "new understanding" in different proportions ?

Very well worded and to the point. Fabulous comment. Thank you Srecko. 

1 hour ago, Outta Here said:

Actually Gamaliel said it and that is obvious in the thread.

I agree in your observation that there are those having problems with being Jehovah's Witnesses, but it is going too far to attribute this to of necessity being "honest hearted". it could well be the opposite.

Honest hearted ones actually love Jehovah, and to such ones Ps.119:165 applies "Abundant peace belongs to those who love your law; nothing can make them stumble"

On Sunday at 02.10am Anna posted :-

9 hours ago, Outta Here said:

You're on the run John I'm afraid. You seem scared of the real truth, and you're hiding from your responsibilities behind this quixotic crusade. Have a look at the Jonah video again. It might unlock something. ?

Actually I am facing up to my responsibilities more that most JW's that remains in the Org. I'm making it known how disgusting the GB and the JW Org is right now. 

Plus, on here and elsewhere, I'm learning 'new truth' about the lies and deceit the Governing Body have used to mislead people.  

My eyes have been opened wide to the rotten dictatorship of the GB. I think they will be removed, it's just a matter of time.  Matthew 24 v 48 through 51. 

I'm scared of nothing because if i am totally wrong I feel God will forgive me. Take for example Saul that became the Apostle Paul. Saul thought he was serving God but Jesus Christ showed Saul the right way. So, if i am totally wrong then I have hope in God that His Christ will guide me to the right way. However at the moment I feel i am doing what God wants me to do. 

Please be aware however, i do not want the JW Org to be destroyed. I want it to be made clean by God through Jesus Christ. 

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No. This is a reference to the Christian disciple-making activity. The evil slave says: “You see, I was in fear of you, because you are a harsh man; you take what you did not deposit and you reap what you did not sow.”

What is he saying to the Lord but: “You want disciples? Get off your rear end and make them yourself!” He has no interest in joining in any public effort to preach. His counterpart today masks his reason with complaints about direction and governance in the congregation, as he attempts to undermine the work of those who have stayed the course. 

 

This is what the scripture say at  Matthew 24 from v 48  Are you arguing with scripture ? 

⁴⁸  “But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ ⁴⁹  and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, ⁵⁰  the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know,c ⁵¹  and he will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his place with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be."

This refers to your Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. Nothing to do with genuine people that can see the disgusting things going on in the JW Org and make positive reference to it all. You seem to have a problem with peaceful and purposeful protests, and complaints about mistreatment of themselves and others within the JW Org.  So be it, the truth hurt me when i first found out about it all. 

1 minute ago, Srecko Sostar said:

:)))))))) believe me, biscuits are better for you .... in this situation.  

I get fed up with offering him either, He's never satisfied whatever you give him. 

A Unitarian that loves the JW Org it seems, by the things he writes anyway. 

19 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Did you miss that?

People have been attcking Jehovah's Witnesses for a loooooooong time. They just come and go. And, funnily, their tactics never change. Or did you miss that as well?

Kinda strange that your comment above makes it look as if i said something which in fact Anna said.  But so be it.

Anyway it's you that is missing the point. Dishonest religions and those against God have indeed been attacking the JW's for many years.

However what you have to face up to now is entirely different. It is honest hearted ones that have found real problems within JW Org because of the GB's 'rules' and the misuse of 'power' by the GB and the Elders. It is from within the JW Org itself, people's real life experiences, that is showing how bad the GB is and how the Elders are just acting like puppets, doing the dirty work for the GB. 

Quite funny though the scripture Anna used, as it was referring to those that were against the Jewish religious leaders, and we know the results there don't we. Just remember " Otherwise, you may even be found fighters against God himself. " (Acts 5: 36 -39)

19 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Oh dear! Not sure that he did actually: 

"So the military commander approached and said to him: “Tell me, are you a Roman?” He said: “Yes.” The military commander responded: “I purchased these rights as a citizen for a large sum of money.” Paul said: “But I have them by birth.”" Acts 22:27-28.

I stand corrected. Thank you

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

That is an EXTREMELY good example .... that fact rock solid hard evidence, not agenda based fluffery and fuzzy thinking!

I am as critical of all the crap going on as anybody here is ... and probably know as much or more than most well educated people about such things .... but I have learned through interactions with MANY kinds of "organizations", not to expect too much from people in groups.

The example I most often recall to mind is this:

If you understand the Mission of the United States Marines, and their necessity in the real world to defend what is honorable, true and righteous ( ... in a very limited absolute sense ...), then for some, that mission was what you were born to do .... be a "Sheepdog", with fangs and claws ... to be the "point of the spear", to protect your fellow sheep ... who are many times scared of you.

It entails willingness to die, or live the rest of your life mangled and broken.  That's what the job IS.

But as the "Peter Principle", a VERY famous business principle states (paraphrased) "Everyone rises in rank to their own level of incompetency".

You could be a very good Marine Sargent, and rise to be an incompetent Marine Lieutenant, etc., ad infinitum. 

A committee is a peculiar life form with at least six legs, and no brain.

This is ESPECIALLY true in fuzzy subjects such as Theology, where everyone is jousting for favor and position with God, and gets used to great piles of free money .... considering it their due.

The Governing Body is NOT the exception, and they have 16 legs.

This is ESPECIALLY true with anyone claiming to speak for God, whether it is kissing the Pope's ring, or admiring the Governing Body's Rolex watches and gold pinkie rings.

When you begin to live like Kings, that vow of poverty becomes irrelevant.

That  bears repeating, over and over ... as there is a VERY important core principle embedded in that innocuous  rock solid and true observation.

I personally fully understand that, and though I sigh and cry over all the unnecessary burdens and smelly crap we have to carry ... that I personally have been expected to carry over the years ... and silly irrelevant drivel we are expected to swallow, hook-line-and-sinker ... I still want to be a "Marine" .... just not an Officer.

The biggest problem we have ... is HAVING to recruit from deeply flawed but presumably well intentioned humans.

.... sigh.

... so does the United States Marines ... and THEY have rifles.

 

 

 

Once again you are funny. But however the situation isn't funny. 

And using the US Marines is a great example as it brings us back to  COLLATERAL DAMAGE. 

It kinda proves my point really too. It seems Americans are raised on this stuff. And they seem to think it has to be so. 

"Everyone rises in rank to their own level of incompetency". Is this really how you see your GB ? I don't, I see them as deliberately deceitful, a big difference. 

The bit that bears repeating is the last few words "and allowed that for a Time being " 

Maybe that' time being' has now ended. Maybe Jehovah wants Jesus Christ to sort the GB and the JW Org out NOW. Maybe they are happy that some of us actually have a good conscience and will put ourselves at a disadvantage so that we are pleasing to God. 

Oh so easy to stay 'in the warm' and have one's ears tickled and have all those 'friends'. Not so easy to step outside 'into the cold' and be alone. But in the end God and Jesus Christ kow who does what for the right reasons. 

7 hours ago, Thinking said:

Well tho I understand your reasoning I don’t agree with it...it would be better for you to stay and be discreet in aiding where you feel the need....just as Jesus said  there would always be poor amongst us...I would also like to apologise because I do see active witnesses constantly posting laughs after many people’s comments....that’s just immature and rude...we dont laugh at  people on the doors...so we shouldn’t here...

but you are going down a wrong track and I know you don’t beleive that...it’s sad..and so unnecessary....but I guess others have tried to help you see this so I’ll leave of now...

just imagine if you had been around when there were temple prostitutes....yet Jehovah still used that system and allowed that for a Time being ....

Yes I believe Jehovah has allowed much wickedness within JW Org, and I believe He has withheld His holy spirit from the JW Org too. 

But think of it from a different direction, Jehovah has often listened to His people. Maybe He has been waiting for those with a proper conscience to complain and moan about the condition of JW Org. I've said for many years that JW's do not take serving God seriously enough. It becomes part of their life and just becomes routine. My own brother who is an Elder would actually watch television whilst studying. Others whilst on the ministry would be looking for things in people's gardens, such as old classic cars that might be for sale. Using the ministry as an excuse to nose into people's property. Yes I've seen these things with my own eyes, and they just laugh as if it's the right thing to do. Then at the KH they look so upright and proper. So two faced. And I honestly believe that Jehovah is now judging the GB, the JW Org, the Elders, and the whole situation. Hence I do believe that Jehovah will remove the GB and straighten out the JW Org, then I will most probably return. But I will not be part of the disgusting things going on in the Org now. 

17 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Who says this?

Are they not?

Why would they need permission? Who from?

Who is it who makes the assessment of who is or is not important? And who is it that is considered unimportant?

Sorry to be picky, but I think you need to get your ducks in a line if you are going to start firing out these kind of questions.

This is just insulting. I think you must really be in pain. It just isn't healthy to be so obsessed with jibing the GB all the time and others too. Are you trying to cause pain to people or something? I just don't get it. 'Spose it's a social media inadequacy really.

Seems to me you cannot handle the real truth. That is you own problem, you have to deal with it yourself. 

With all the evidence so given, which is fantastic, Thank You all.

I come back to one of my original points please.

Why would the GB have it written in their translation of God's word that it was 'holes in the hands where the nails passed through.

Then why would the GB then have a picture showing one nail through the wrists. 

With all the evidence you give I am now totally confused as to which is correct. But no matter and as some have said is it really important.

However another of my original points is that the GB must have found it important as they gave a full page to that picture. 

In my opinion, whichever is correct, the GB have done wrong by contradicting God's word, in the picture. 

I voted LEAVE  on the UK Leaving the EU.

I wasn't voting for a person, i was voting about a situation.

We still have to live here on this Earth until we either die or Armageddon arrives. 

I thought today's study article was good. Quite basic and practical. 

However the first sentence of paragraph 2 made me laugh. If it were true there would not be half the problems within the Org, the child abuse being a good example.

Paragraph 7 first sentence also is almost funny, but not so because it contains God's name which should not be mocked. 

Paragraph 14 The last sentence says.. "... requires that we exercise empathy, putting ourselves in their situation to the extent possible."  How many brothers or sisters actually do this ? How many have done this regarding Child Abuse victims ? 

I like the bit in paragraph 18 " there will be no more sickness, wars, inherited death, .....  Because of course there will still be death after Armageddon but it will be because people do not want to serve God properly. 

Paragraph 17 talks about, not telling people, they are not doing enough. However in truth this is not put into practice. People, including my wife, are being 'pushed' into doing more for the Org. 

All in all it made for a good read though. But it seems to be telling the congregants to do what people in the world do normally. Keep Displaying Love,

Compare  Matthew 5 v 43 through 48

 “You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ ⁴⁴  However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, ⁴⁵  so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous.i ⁴⁶  For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? ⁴⁷  And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? ⁴⁸  You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. 

Is this not showing that people in the world show love to one another. So it is obvious that JW's should do the same.