57 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Are they the only anointed ones still on earth?

I'm sure there are women in the writing department, just like there are women that pioneer, and in some case in different countries where there are not enough men, I have heard the sisters take an active role to keep the congregation functioning.

Can you explain, what feminism is, and how you believe these sisters are introducing feminism?

Once again you try to turn the tables Kid , but you are not good at it at all  

It was you that first mentioned feminism in the Org. 

41 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

You can interpret it as being frightened of the Elders, but could it be that they are frightened of displeasing Jehovah and going against "His" arrangement?

Who's arrangement, only the GB's.  Jehovah does not make such demands.  

@BillyTheKid46 What did catch my eye, It is of no surprise that some want to introduce feminism to the Watchtower. How far from scripture have these Christians gone? ?

Aren't there women in the writing room of the W/T and Awake mags ? Or there were for sure. 

@Anna Quote : I am sorry, there was no one announced at our hall for such a long time so I don't know how exactly the announcement is made anymore. I can assure you though it will be known that you are no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses because you do not agree with the organization. I remember someone was announced years ago, and everyone knew it was because he had differing views, and not because he had committed immorality or something like that. (End quote.)

I was wise enough to tell a few brothers what i was about to do, so at least they would know the truth. I gave only one of them the reason, but told others i was 'resigning'. However here is the stupidity of things shunning causes :- 

A man, a JW that i had helped many times as he was over 80 years old, though he is quite physically active.  Whilst i was still a brother i sold him a motorised bicycle. We had an agreement that if he decide he didn't really want it, that i would buy it back from him. 

A long time had passed since this business agreement. Then suddenly my wife has a text message on her mobile phone (cell phone to you guys i think). This being after i left the Org. The message is from this man, asking her to talk to me about me buying back this motorised bicycle. 

Two points here : -

1. The man should never have been given my wife's personal phone number, so whoever gave him the number was doing wrong.

2. It was a business agreement between the man and myself, not involving my wife. And my wife knew nothing about it and was not interested in getting involved in it. 

My wife gave me the information after getting over the shock of receiving the message, and I could see she was genuinely upset by him having her number. 

I emailed him quite politely telling him how my wife and i felt about it. I also agreed that if he contact me personally I would buy the item back from him.

Now, the questions must be, Why was he too frightened to contact me directly first time ? And, why has he not replied to my email ?

I know the answers of course.   He is frightened of being told off by the Elders of the congregation, for contacting me. 

I know this man well enough to know he is not frightened of me personally. And i know that we once had a really good friendship. It proves my point, that people are frightened of the Elders. 

There is a second case proving the same thing, but i will make it brief.

One of the brothers i told that I was resigning, visited me the Wednesday evening before the Thursday announcement. He promised me he would call back in 6 months time to see how i was doing. He has not been near my house since that Wednesday evening. Why ? Well once again it just proves my point, but in his case he has also proved himself a liar. He has broken his word. All because of fear of men, the Elders.

14 hours ago, Anna said:

I am sorry, there was no one announced at our hall for such a long time so I don't know how exactly the announcement is made anymore. I can assure you though it will be known that you are no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses because you do not agree with the organization. I remember someone was announced years ago, and everyone knew it was because he had differing views, and not because he had committed immorality or something like that.

Yes, it is best we agree to differ. I am just trying to be fair. I do not think everything they say is right, but I do believe we have the core important things right. The apostles in the first century also didn't have things right and had to change and adjust some things.  We are a work in progress, and this will always be the case as long as we are imperfect.

By the way I noticed in my previous reply that the quote from Br. Jackson got messed up and some things were missing, so I went and  put the missing bits back. But so that you don't have to go looking for it I will repost it here:

Q. By what mechanism would you understand God's spirit to  direct your decisions?

Br. Jackson:   Well, what I mean by that is, by prayer and using our constitution, God's word, we would go through the scriptures and see if there was any biblical principle at all that would influence our decision - and it could be that in our initial discussions there was something that maybe we were missing and then in another discussion that would come to light.  So we would view that as God's spirit   motivating us because we believe the Bible is God's word and came by means of holy spirit.

 

 

Brother Jackson said a lot of things, including basically admitting that the GB are not the only spokesman God is using. 

Governing Body Unwittingly Condemned

Mr. Stewart then asked pointedly if the Governing Body views itself as Jehovah’s spokespeople on earth.

Brother Jackson does not vacillate this time, but states, “That, I think, would seem to be quite presumptuous, to say that we are the only spokesperson that God is using.”

With those words, Brother Jackson is unwittingly labeling the Governing Body as presumptuous. Here is the official position of the Governing Body with regards to its role before God. [Italics added]

“Jehovah gives us sound counsel through his Word and through his organization, using the publications provided by “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Matthew 24:45; 2 Timothy 3:16) How foolish to reject good advice and insist on our own way! We “must be swift about hearing” when Jehovah, “the One teaching men knowledge,” counsels us through his channel of communication.” (w03 3/15 p. 27 ‘The Lips of Truth Will Endure Forever’)

“That faithful slave is the channel through which Jesus is feeding his true followers in this time of the end.” (w13 7/15 p. 20 par. 2 “Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?”)

Theocratic appointments come from Jehovah through his Son and God’s visible earthly channel, “the faithful and discreet slave” and its Governing Body.” (w01 1/15 p. 16 par. 19 Overseers and Ministerial Servants Theocratically Appointed)

However that 'faithful slave' and the GB are one and the same now, as the rest of the Anointed are pushed to one side.

So there you have it. As I've said before the scripture at Luke 14 v 11 

For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Can you prove I am grouping people together? Clearly I am showing the differences of Christology as well as making a distinction between the two, as sky to sea, there are differences.

Can you bring proof to claim of the problem I have because you have already failed your own claim of me pretending, as you professed twice now.

If anyone has a problem it is a man who believes he can purge something that came from the imperfection of men, not only it is a problem, it is outright dream-worthy when such a man cannot see reality for what it is and that only God can change such things, not man.

And yet you are capable of knowing who has God's approval and not? Who can forgive or not? Some of the things Gardner has professed you have brought them up too, just as his view on the bible itself. Yet when it is done in your favor no one is not allowed to bring up this point?

I am not judging, my statement is based on both the responses and reaction made by you and Srecko. I speak of educating our children to which Srecko makes claim I do not have concern for the well being of the youth, something of which I made points of time and time again to you and now.

If Srecko is right about me not caring why in the world would I post information brought up by Child Prevention sources?

I told you before, I do have a high concern and I believe God will cleanse this world of sin and death, if the latter claims this logic is a fail, why agree with him on this stance?

Not really. I make a response to a response and give a word if need be. If I felt inferior I would not be getting my information form a source and I'd be flailing in responses.

I say this because as someone who profess the gospel if they are incorrect they will go by means of insult and make outlandish claims, as I said before because of this and the racial slurs, it does not hinder me from professing the Bible.

Another thing because of the actions of a person, in this case an African American, society tends to blame all African Americans for the actions of a sole person - I do not believe this even when the race and background is in regards to others, but this mentality is at its prime in the US, as with in the UK for you.

This is the same with faith communities. If someone abused a child, it does not define the masses and they should not be singled out for the actions of a sole person, it is absurd and silly.

That being said, I am aware of how people are and I do not condemn an entire party, a group or people because of something that one or a few people have done, I do not buy into that mentality and I told you this countless times.

We can take example from even Jesus himself, who he himself knew the situation with the Jews and Sanitarians, as is with other biblical examples.

Just as God is fair and just, we should be likewise, not be ignorant to such at all.

And how is that so?

My response pretty much counters your question, as is with what I say about good and bad people of which you agreed with me on several times before. Why is it now it is different with you?

Unlike you I can discern and understand the difference in something someone or some group, I am not oblivious to what it means to be like a Berean and put forth discernment.

My comments are always this lengthy because I make a response to a response. It should not come as a surprise to you because our first discussion I told you I am literally like a book.

Therefore, I am knowledgeable, but I do not pretend because I take the time to read, study and research - that isn't pretending, Mr. Butler. As much as you can make claim to childish antics, it will always be unfounded for you and I both know pretending is for children. A bit ironic from a man who speaks of tricks not too long ago, if I may add.

So next time when you post information of someone like Mr. Gardner, do not boast of his efforts when the guy was causing problems to people and caused a divide among those who take up his influence.

I also suggest you take the time to read and research, perhaps you can play a role in what Child Prevention Services has provided for people to follow, you and your household can learn a thing or too and not ignore the problem.

AS for you in the UK, perhaps London would be a better place, just as Robinson's people have mentioned before they went crazy.

You seem to want to link me with Srecko and with this Mr Gardner whoever he is .  That was what i meant by grouping people together. 

It seems that you and I will always see things from different angles. So be it.  Have a good day.

16 minutes ago, Anna said:

John here is the rest of my reply. I will try and be as concise as possible

The instance I gave you was from the 80’s when there was much more leeway in how some congregational matters were handled. The DOCUMENT we have now on the website  enables anyone to check if things are being handled the right way or not. I printed mine out.

 

For practicalities sake it makes sense that only a handful of people make up the FDS. Anointed ones are scattered all over the world and it would be hard for them to contribute in any meaningful way unless they were all present together, which is impossible. None of the anointed are above another anointed and nor is anyone anointed above someone who isn’t. Anyone who asks, can receive holy spirit as helper. The difference between one who is anointed and one who isn’t is only in their final destination. Faithful and discreet slave is not a title, merely a function that someone has to perform. The qualifications are no different to the qualifications of an Elder, except perhaps these men have a longer period of service before they are elected to be on the governing body.

I am not quite sure what you mean by that. I wouldn’t know what the GB thought and whether they pretended something.  I cannot read their thoughts....

Every human that has ever lived has been fallible. Every human that has been God’s true servant has been fallible. Countless Bible accounts testify to this fact. The only time a human has been able to say something that has been infallible was when under the influence of holy spirit, but ONLY in Bible times. This kind of privilege served its purpose for writing the Bible and for establishing the Christian congregation. Since then the holy spirit does not act in the same way. There is no miraculous interception, nor any inspiration. One simple reason is that everything we need is already in the pages of the Bible. The right food at the right time really is the presentation of the right scriptures at the right time. Not someone’s ideas. Yes, the information comes from God because the Bible is from God. But interpretation or the understanding of it is subject to the fallibility of man. Especially when it comes to prophecies.  Br. Jackson was asked about the operation of the holy spirit during the ARC hearing. Here is a short excerpt from the transcript:     

Q.   By what mechanism would you understand God's spirit to  direct your decisions?

Br. Jackson:   Well, what I mean by that is, by prayer and

ybe we were missing and then in another discussion that would come to light.  So we would view that as God's spirit   motivating us because we believe the Bible is God's word and came by means of holy spirit.

However, there are fundamental doctrines or truths which are clear and simple. It is these fundamental truths that have been the backbone of our faith and these have never changed. As long as we are clear on those fundamental truths, the other stuff is just frills that we may or may not change, or that we may or may not understand, or even personally consider important for the time being.

This is the paragraph you must be quoting from: Gods Kingdom Rules page 101: “The Bible Students long acknowledged that Christmas has pagan roots and that Jesus was not born on December 25. Zion’s Watch Tower of December 1881 stated: “Millions were brought into the church from Paganism. But the change was mostly in name, for the pagan priests became christian priests and the pagan holidays came to be called by christian names—Christmas being one of these holidays.” In 1883, under the title “When Was Jesus Born?” the Watch Tower reasoned that Jesus was born about the beginning of October.* Yet, the Bible Students did not at the time clearly see the need to stop celebrating Christmas. It continued to be celebrated even by members of the Brooklyn Bethel family. After 1926, however, things began to change. Why?

 

 As a result of careful, closer scrutiny of the subject, the Bible Students came to realize that the origin of Christmas and the practices associated with it actually dishonor God. 

 

 

It seems that they did make the necessary changes as soon as they realized. Prior to that they couldn’t have been convinced enough to take the decisive action necessary. I would hope I was given some leeway and patience if I took a little longer to making adjustments in my lifestyle. Life is progressive, experiences are progressive, knowledge is progressive. Rarely do things happen right from the get go.

What is one person’s positive action is another person’s holding back. There is no one size that fits all cases. Yes, I agree, some cases were woefully mishandled, and these are the cases that are reported on in the media. Other cases were handled well. I am sure you are aware that “successful” cases do not get reported in the media. Yes, most active JWs were unaware of a problem unless they were directly involved and/or unless they had children. Many JWs were under the impression that this cannot happen in our org. despite publications which said that indeed these things CAN happen in the org.  I explained the gist of the reasoning “we are better than anyone else” in my previous post.

 

The intentions are in Acts 3:19

If I understand correctly, your main concern is that people are aware that you left of your own volition because you no longer agree with some of the ways things are done in the organization. You are right, reasons for disfellowshipping are not given, out of regard for the dissfelliwshipped person and their family. But if you have disassociated yourself, and the announcement is made that "John Buttler has disassociated himself and therefore is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses" then people will know it was because of something you did not agree with, and not because you necessarily committed some moral wrong. If people ignore you, then it is because you are no longer of "their sort" (1John 2:19) and will view you as a man of the nations, because you are no longer a part of the Christian congregation.

I am sure this magazine is intended for those who have “drifted” and become inactive as Jehovah's Witnesses. They are still considered JW to a certain extend.

Not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean organized?

Oh so many points, but i will only answer this one right now.

My wife was present when they announced that 'John Butler is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses'.  They did not say i had disassociated myself.   I think that proves the point. 

I can see that you support the JW org with all your heart and I'm not in a battle with you. So best to just agree to differ.  You seem to take everything they say as right. So be it Anne. 

Have a good day. 

3 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

@JOHN BUTLER You mention this before, but coupled with that you will not be ignoring the things people are doing that can help the betterment of children to at least lessen child abuse and or other bad practices that any child can succumb to.

Just as your own Father teaches you right from wrong, it is to be done the same to our youth, be it your own blood or someone you care for who sees you as perhaps a parent and or guardian.

Therefore I do not see why the agree previously but show to be contested to such now, even against as Srecko is doing.

You cannot cleanse anything totally, perhaps in your dreams, but in reality, we cannot stop abuse anywhere totally - this goes for the Jehovah's Witnesses too.

Therefore in contrast to Srecko's claims, God is the only one who is capable of purifying this earth of sin, us of mankind, cannot. WE can do some things, but never can we cease something totally i.e. war and famine being prime examples.

If you fail to believe God can clear imperfections of men, why profess God to begin with? Because the way you are acting you act as though our counterparts are ignorant of something that is neigh impossible purge, which is factual.

@JW Insider comment above and my comment above prove the point I'm making. The 'rulers' of JW Org and the Elders could do a lot more. But they are still trying to make the JW Org 'look clean' even when it isn't. 

Yes of course only God through Jesus Christ can bring in the New World and bring back perfection, but that is no excuse for others to stop trying to make things better now.  And I'm still not sure if you believe that only one organisation is the true way to God, or if a person can be 'saved' on their own faith. 

19 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The congregation, as a rule, is not informed formally, on purpose. My parents are in a congregation where a molester, former elder, had been disfellowshipped and apparently no one knew or said anything about the reasons for two years until he was reinstated last year. But rumors of the offense got around in the congregation immediately after his reinstatement, and the brother and his family (??!!??) have moved to another congregation. I believe the procedure has been just inform the elders of the new congregation, and tell them to keep a close watch and not return his privileges.

Naturally, there are more cases where the knowledge of child abuse gets known in the congregation through other secular channels, newspapers, media, law enforcement, sex offender lists. The rumors can even start through a fellow family member who hates the molestor.

Thank you @JW Insider. When you say 'molester' I presume you mean Pedophile.... .

So here we have to important points. 

1. That congregants are not informed of there being a Pedophile in their congregation. 

2. Quote  "until he was reinstated last year."  So we are not talking about 20 years ago as some on here  pretend. This is NOW. 

JW Insider did not say if the police were involved or informed, but if not then this man could still be a threat to people outside of the JW Org / congregation. And the Elders of his new congregation can only watch him whilst he is in the Kingdom Hall. What about social gatherings ? Many JW's have social gatherings / 'a party' / 'get together'.  If this man is invited, who watches him ? 

Be honest, am i not making the point clear here. This is now, not back in history. More needs to be done to protect not only the JW congregations but also the people outside. 

Poor Space Merchant. I think you have a problem SM. It seems you need to group people together. I tell you this much, if any person says something that i agree with, i will say that i agree with it. That does not make me a follower of that person or does not link me to that person in any way. It only means that i agree with the one comment they have made. 

You are telling me that i don't believe in the promises God has made. You are very wrong.  However you are free to judge me if you wish. But I worry about you. I have a sad feeling that you feel inferior. You have mentioned many times that you are a 'man of colour', a 'black man. Why do you need to tell us this ? Is it because you feel inferior ?  The length of your comments seem to show that you are trying to prove how clever you are. We all know that you have great knowledge.  

So please remember that i am not part of a group, I am not linked to anyone except my own Wife. Of course you may criticise me as much as you want to, if you helps you to feel better about yourself. 

2 hours ago, Thinking said:

It is my understanding that they do it privately ...perhaps you could keep your granddaughters by your side at the meetings ...you also have a duty of care...

I no longer attend meetings due to the Child Abuse problem earthwide in the JW Org. I left the Org in January of this year. I could not be part of what I'd found about. I could not encourage other people in to such dangerous situations. 

If i had stayed I would have passed on information to other congregants, then I would have been disfellowshipped for 'Causing a division within the congregation'. It was better for me to leave of my own choice and be free to use my own voice to tell anyone that would listen.

I could have stayed and become completely inactive, a Jehovah's bystander. But that would have silenced me, and by doing so, make me part of the problem. In my opinion if a person knows of danger but keeps quiet then they are almost as bad as the ones causing the danger. 

Many here say I am giving false alarms, but we each have to weigh up the situation and deal with it as we think best. 

12 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I have not known a website so bent on conspiracy theories. Looking back on the 80’s cannot be applied to just one view when there are still thousands around,  that lived in that era.

The suggestion the Watchtower has neglected keeping their member's information has become an excuse for modern day witnesses to pass on their responsibility. It sounds like partisanship with someone that married a Bethel member, now defends a misconception.

*** w65 5/1 pp. 259-260 Do You Get Angry over Small Things? ***

*** w75 6/1 p. 327 Insight on the News ***

Lack of Natural Affection

*** g73 1/22 p. 30 Watching the World ***

Shaking Children

This would be no different when zealous witnesses wanted to hear what they wanted to hear. No one was going to change their minds even though it was mistaken by their own understanding, not generated by any public talk people mistook.

The fact the Watchtower has been pro-family will not be overlooked by sensible witnesses, not by those dedicated to pleasing former witnesses. This should be a wakeup call to follow our hearts if the Watchtower is no longer a good source for our spiritual conviction.

It will never be enough for any disgruntled person to see the good this,  organizations have done. There’s no shock value if newspapers were available. Telnet was available before the internet came online. Now, millions of people have to sift through to make sense of all the fake news, the misrepresented and exploited Watchtower material, etc.

 

OK, so lets have some truth spoken. Does anyone on here actually know if, The situation has arisen that a person is accused of being a pedophile and it is proved to be correct. If that person is allowed to remain in the Organisation, are the members of their congregation informed that this person is a proven Pedophile. Or, are the members of the same congregation informed that there is a Pedophile within their congregation.  As far as I know the congregants are not informed... 

Now, when our children were young, we were in a congregation in Bristol. Parents were told that during meetings their children had to stay with the parents. We had five young children but the congregation was kind enough to allow the use of the 'back room' for parents to look after disruptive / unhappy children. My wife and i often spent the meeting apart, one in the main hall, the other in the back room, but at all time we had all five children with at least one of us. 

Since living here in Devon we have found that the situation is different. Children can go and sit with whomever they want. Our children are grown up of course but we have grandchildren now.  I have seen three of our granddaughters all sitting separately with different people. This is helpful to their mother as her husband is not a Witness and does not attend meetings. But it does leave the situation wide open to one of those girls being abused, if mum doesn't know who she can trust and who she should not trust. 

So, in my opinion, the GB,  Organisation, Congregation Elders, have a Duty of Care, to inform the congregants if there is a Pedophile in their congregation. However i do not believe the congregants are informed. 

10 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Only dead fish go with the flow .....

There must be thousands of dead fish in the JW Org then.  

3 minutes ago, Thinking said:

If they need punishing or discipline ...off course..just as you and I....in fact they will carry a heavier punishment as they are teachers....but that is in his jurisdiction to decide..not yours or mine...keep in mind....

Aaron built the golden calf and did not even take responsibility for what he did but conviemtly  blamed the people....what he did was massively wrong ...yet when Moses came down from the mountain ...he still offered a chance for all this committing spiritual idolatry another chance by telling all those who stood for Jehovah to stand by his side.

Arrons  life was spared because he did...but more out of consideration for his brother Moses...nevertheless Moses/Jesus offered all those worshipping the Golden calf another chance at repentance...obviously a lot never took that.

The point being...the second man in charge did commit idolatry...yet was spared..it’s food for thought..

I would have thought that if the GB are of the anointed class then they should have a much closer and different relationship with God. They would be sons of God with a view to the inheritance.  Therefore if they deliberately disobey God, or Jesus Christ who now has that authority, then they would be classed as the Wicked slave, that Jesus said would be thrown out in the street. 

Remember that the GB call themselves the 'Faithful and discreet slave', they have given themselves that title.... Luke 14 v 11 clearly warns against anyone exalting themselves. But the GB have put the others of the anointed in a lower position than themselves, only exalting the GB consisting of 8 men.  Please remember that at one time the Organisation counted ALL of the Anointed as the Faithful slave. 

The JW Organisation is supposed to be superior to the Nation of Israel in as much as people join JW Org voluntarily, whereas in the Nation of Israel, people were born into it and had no choice. So each individual in the JW Org should prove that they have the right heart condition. However the GB are proving themselves to be in opposition to God, or at least sinning against God.  Is that sinning against the spirit ?  I really don't know.  

As for me judging them, I think we all have to make a decision about the GB and about the JW Org, otherwise how would we know whether it is right to serve God through Christ and through the JW Org or not.  We could just as well serve through the Pope if we followed blindly.  Yes a bit extreme but it makes the point i think. 

21 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I am at ah. A human making himself equal to God. Mark 3:28-30 Not even Jesus did this. How quaint.

 

Somehow it's not surprising.

 

"When we find ourselves making explicit demands,"  That's Your words Kid.....  So what are you burbling about ? Have you been drinking or are you on tablets that upset your mind ?  Get well soon Kid. 

The thing is Srecko, SM doesn't believe the JW's have it right, or he would be one.  

What tablets are you taking J T ? 

^{@Space Merchant2}  In the final part of the days,The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream. ³  And many peoples will go and say:“Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.”For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.

Thank you S.M... Isaiah 2 v 2&3. 

34 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I am beguiled by the misunderstanding of the objective with the phrase JW org. When I think of it, it reminds me to direct interested people to this website. The official corporate name of the Watchtower for legal purposes doesn’t minimize the application for the use of the phrase Watchtower. A name that has been in use for over a century. The use of JW org to reflect Jehovah’s Witnesses Organization would imply unity.

The way members refer to themselves here are not in unison with what the teachings are for the Watchtower. The phrase JW org then is reflective on how it meant by opposers. In a derogatory way. This appeal does find a home with former witnesses and those that support their endeavors. Therefore, I will continue to use the term Watchtower since I don’t find common ground to suggest otherwise.

It is good there is a realization the organization does not have perfect members. It should have been obvious to you by the support you have been given here. 1 John 4:1

When we find ourselves making explicit demands, and call them expectation, we would have to test the heart of the wicked. Proverbs 10:28 Does an activism have God’s support. 1 Peter 2:21-25

Only God can read the heart of a disgruntled former member. Psalm 32:1, Psalm 37:16, John 14:1

Well a lot of JW's say they are 'in the truth' but as i don't see all of it as truth then i don't use that phrase.  

So it seems that you see it as ok for the GB and some Elders to deliberately do wrong, because they are not perfect. 

And as for making demands, I think God himself makes demands  "You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect". Matthew 5 v 48. 

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

Probably the same reason David got so much wrong and Peter, Samson,Moses..oh and Jonah 

David deliberately committed adultery and murder, and was punished by Jehovah. 

So in that case the GB should be punished by Jesus Christ, as the power and authority are in his hands now. 

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Yeah, my profile photo is from years ago, taken at my eldest Son's wedding.

My children had just tied me to the top of a car and run me through the car wash.

Today I have wrinkles that cast  shadows, and could grow corn.

but you have a good heart, so looks don't matter. 

15 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I would consider using JW org as an internet-controlled IP address, to direct those interested. The day the Watchtower changes the Watchtower magazine to JW org, then I will be no more than happy to call it the JW org. Meanwhile, I will continue to view JW org as intended, a pseudonym. Usually, opposer and former witnesses use the JW org as a derogatory gesture.

 

This reminds me, someone wrote some time ago. It probably got deleted since I can’t find it posted anymore. It went something like this. When did the Watchtower claim to be perfect, those that have become activist against the Watchtower see members within the organization as perfect, or something like that. Where is it written in scripture, those that are not part of this world, become perfect human beings, impervious to sin?

 

If anyone can offer this new light, it would be most welcoming.

 

When I say JW Org, i do not mean JW.org, I mean the Jehovah's Witnesses Organisation. I would think most people understand that. And it does enough harm to itself, it doesn't need outside help to do that. 

However the official title i believe is The Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, which is a separate organisation to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.  Each of them having their own legal departments, though i presume both being controlled by the Governing Body. 

As for being perfect, none of us are, and i for one don't expect anyone to be. What i do expect is for the JW Org and Watchtower Soc' to examine themselves in comparison to God's standards, not to the standards of the world.  It is so easy to say that The JW Org and W/t are behaving better than the world... I think i behave much better than many in the world. But i know I do not live up to God's standards. However the JW Org / W/t is supposed to live as if they are in the New World. I can't quite remember the scripture but it's something about : Come you people let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah. And about, learning a new or pure language. 

So when will this happen ?  And who will those people be that do this ? Will it only be Jehovah's witnesses ?

@Witness I take my hat off to you. you have worded it much better that I. 

Spirit directed Org eh ? So why do they get so much wrong. 

9 hours ago, Anna said:

What interests me John, what things will need to be cleaned out? You must have specific things in mind.

Anna you are not blind to all the problems in the Org are you ? 

The way Child Abuse is dealt with, needs sorting out. NOT just on paper, anyone can write a list of what procedure should be, and then secretly do it a different way. You yourself have given me instances of this...... 

The GB stating that they themselves (only those 8 men) are the faithful and discreet slave. When Jesus said to his apostles that one should not put himself above another. Yet the GB do put themselves above the others of the Anointed. 

The false teachings, which they pretend are mistakes. The changing of meaning of scriptures, by the GB, to suit their own needs or wants.  Surely everyone knows about Page 9 in the Revelation book, where the GB / writers say " It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible." Huh ? On the one hand they say they are the Faithful slave of God, giving the right food at the right time. Then on the other hand they say 'But we could be wrong'  Why would they be wrong if they claim that the information comes from God ?  Of course they have been proved wrong, so I think it proves my point, they are not receiving the info' from God.

So, the GB need to be cleaned out, removed by God or Jesus Christ. As Jesus said, the wicked slave would be thrown out in the streets. 

Information from God's Kingdom Rules book :-

The Bible students in 1883 knew Christmas was wrong but they continued to celebrate Christmas until 1926, so deliberate sin was committed against God.

In 1895 Bro Russell commented that smoking was wrong, using scripture to back up what he said. But smoking was allowed to continue within the JW Org until 1973. Over 75 years of deliberate sin by those 'in charge' of the Bible Students/JW Org. 

And they seem to boast about it in that book as if making the changes was so good. Yes good, but much too late, as it should have been done as soon as they realised.

Can you not see the pattern ? The GB / Org 'bosses' know about things much sooner than they let the congregants know.  Not giving the right food at the proper time... Could it be that they were /are frightened of losing so many people from the Org if they do things properly. 

Carry that through to the Child Abuse / Pedophilea problem and once again it can clearly be seen that the GB and HQ's in every country knew about the serious problem of Child Abuse in many many congregations, but deliberately held back on taking positive action. Most active JW's never knew for years about it, and many still don't know. Once again deliberate sinning was / is taking place.

Shunning. This one is a mixed bag of course. But if it leads to people being left completely alone and depressed then i would think it was not God's or Jesus Christ's intentions. It should be made clear when a person is 'no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses', whether they were disfellowshipped or 'resigned', and whether the person sinned against God or not. No personal details need to be given but the congregation should know if they are allowed to talk to the person or not. Many congregants unfortunately will not think for themselves, they need guidance or 'approval' from the elders.

Quite funny that the Org prints this magazine 'Return to Jehovah', but no one is supposed to even talk to ex JW's. 

When the bible reminds us 'not to forsake the gathering of ourselves together' I don't think it mean in such a 'military way'. 

I wonder if any of you have ever watched 'Life of Brian'. I must say i didn't realise how bad the language was until i watched it with subtitles. And I will not watch it again. However my point here is that the anti-Romans would sit down and write about what they would do, and that seemed to be their way of getting things done (or not getting things done). All talk and writing, and no action.

Now that seems to be just like the GB of the JW Org. And what excuse, oh of course. Well the rest of the world is like it too. 

Back to the, offering up children to Molech. Well the others were doing it too. 

In the Kid's comment above i can see at least 3 times the 'world' is mentioned. And what are moral like today ?  Come on ,we all know what the world is like (even though SM seems to think i don't know) so what ? 

The JW org is not the world. It is supposed to be NO PART OF THE WORLD.  It should not even be influenced by the world.  So why oh why do they even compare themselves to the world ?  The comparison should only be to what God's standards are, not what mans standards are. 

One thing i find strange is how the Kid seems to say the Watchtower, not the JW org.