JOHN BUTLER

* w18 January p. 13 par. 5 Pleasant Unity and the Memorial ***

• By ‘testing whether we are in the faith.’ To do that, we do well to ask ourselves: ‘Do I really believe that I am part of the only organization that Jehovah has approved to accomplish his will?

*** w79 3/1 p. 18 par. 21 Faith in Jehovah’s Victorious Organization ***

• But, steadfastly, devoted Witnesses have kept their faith in Jehovah’s organization. They know which one of all organizations on earth the Almighty God has used . . . . Is there any cause for us to lose faith in Jehovah’s visible organization . . ?

*** w54 11/1 p. 667 par. 19 Walking in Good Behavior ***

• Do we have strong faith in Jehovah’s organization? Then loyally and actively support it. Your regular attendance . .

How much more do you need SM. They think it is only them, 'THE ONLY ORGANISATION'.  And you and I are not one of them. 

@Space Merchant  This was a comment by @JW Insider written in that topic you highlighted. 

"First of all the more generally correct answer is YES, not NO. The question was do Jehovah's Witnesses FEEL that they are the only people who will be saved? In my opinion, millions of them do feel exactly that way, whether or not this matches the official position. In cleaning out 50 years of my parents house for the last week I have read a lot of my deceased grandmother's correspondence with elders, pioneers, and good friends she had all over the world. I was struck by the way assemblies attended in many different nations were often summarized. These ranged from the 1950's up to about 2010. Included in so many of them were expressions like: "Isn't it great to be associated with the only people whom Jehovah will spare through this old system."

I think this helps to prove my point and it is from another person's opinion not just mine. 

11 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Then it can be said you harbor the same for active witnesses within the organization. Credibility, however you want to define it, has no sensible reasoning with troubled souls. They just want to justify their actions at any cost. Then, judgment falls in their doorstep, not others. There lies the difference in judgment and conspiracy. That attitude nullifies all credibility no matter what when activism is generated by misguided intent.

It's unfortunate the parallels have not made its way to understanding the intent I'm attempting to convey with your own behavior, about judgment, holding the Watchtower responsible, and making all members the same. Perhaps, it will someday.

It is said that i do "harbor the same for active witnesses within the organization." However the person that says such is lying.  Because I don't 'make all members the same', as you pretend. 

If i say there are vehicles all over the earth,  I am not saying that everyone is a vehicle driver.  Similarly I say that there is Child Abuse within the JW Org earthwide, but I'm not sayin every JW is a pedophile... What I'm saying is that the danger of Child Abuse exists in every congregation of JW's because it is known that it has occured in many congregations before. And I'm also stating as fact that the GB have known about it for a very long time and it has been kept 'hidden' within the JW Org. 'Hidden' in a way that it is now just becoming known earthwide by people in general. 

And does a person really have to justify wanting to rid an organisation of Child Abuse ? Surely the GB should have to justify why they haven't acted on it sooner ? 

Kid, I think you may possibly be the 'troubled soul', hiding your head in the sand.  Don't you want the JW Org to be clean ? 

5 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

While I can understand the assumption made, I cannot link the comment I offered to other than the author I was describing. Kyria

However, I can see where people as yourself might want to include all, as it has become a gesture in common with your remarks. Perhaps this is the area, Equivocation had a problem with. Linking members with the organization.

The idea that those that faded, stopped going, or simply resigned out of their own free will, doesn’t exclude the fact they will find an insistence to align themselves to the prosecution of the Watchtower, and its members. This comprises with their own personal reasons why they left. I cannot see a positive circumstance that a former witness has stated, I left the organization out of my own free will, and I find myself to be in 100% agreement with the Watchtower. I found my behavior to be at fault, and I cannot in all conscious subject my ways of not accepting god's commands to the other members of the Watchtower.

I believe you made yourself a prime example of that. The conspiracy theory then continues.

 

instead of speaking about their normal lives and why they were disfellowshipped. 

Their,  plural.. they plural.  Seems clear to me you were including a quantity of people. Singular would  probably been his/her, he,she. 

So how is that conspiracy ? 

Maybe the conspiracy comes from you and your accusation that "The idea that those that faded, stopped going, or simply resigned out of their own free will ,doesn’t exclude the fact they will find an insistence to align themselves to the prosecution of the Watchtower, and its members. 

A bit of a blanket statement it seems. I get moaned at for doing such things when i say Child Abuse is Earthwide in the JW org. But you think it's fine because you sit on high judging Ex JW's. 

27 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

One cannot clean out a problem that is spread out throughout the world like a plague. You can prevent small instances - yes, but as to he problem itself - no. There are also better ways of doing things, better solutions, but people do not want to take advantage of such, one of these solutions is to educate our children on this matter, for if we can teach a child about Strangers, we can do the same for Child Abuse, for this is recommended by Child Abuse and Neglect Services to teach young ones about this, to see the signs.

If the Bible has taught us anything, God does not focus on one man, he focuses on all men, sees their hearts, etc. It is not unknown to anyone that child abuse is within Jehovah's Witnesses, but it is silly to single them out when the problem is all over the place, even in restaurants as of recently.

That being said, problems like this will not cease one's faith at all, if that were the cases, a what if perhaps, kids would not be allowed to go to schools, churches, mosques, synagogues, etc. Restaurants would be off limits to ensure child safety therefore it would task a grown adult to go and buy the food and bring it back. And like I said before, even to all denominations regarding Unitarians, even us Biblical Unitarians, child abuse is an issue, it didn't stop me from professing truth and it allowed some of us to wise up and teach our children so they can teach others to see the signs.

How are you so sure if you yourself do not judge assume or met them, as you claim? This goes back to your comment of who has God's approval. For he is still a JW, you are not, granted he is one still perhaps he knows way more in regards to what he professes.

As with all errors, they must be brought to attention.

He didn't mention Jesus, he mentioned Peter, do not add to someone's word, even of God's, there is a verse for that.

Thinking stated the following: A lot of us don’t follow the GB...we follow,the scriptures and test it out as the beroeans did....you assume we are all puppets...you give no respect to many brothers and sisters who have stronger faith than yourself.....John you have a big mouth.....I can say that because once I did to....Peter had a big mouth too....but he learnt humility...and eventually I learnt it to....and not from any GB...but from reading the scriptures and allowing them to discipline me and correct me....

Now, Thinking on made that response because of your response towards him, which is to a degree true because whenever it comes with someone who actually has something informative to say it does not sit well with you. The young one who spoke of forgiveness, you who claim you do not assume just assume an ordeal he had last year he was not a person who forgives, you also go on to say he equals ExJWs to gangsters when he was referring to gangsters in the Tri-State area, as per my example of something that was actually a true story.

Sometimes you have to see that all JWs are not the same ones you encountered in your original church.

And yet previously you say spoke of trick questions, so the question Evo asked proved the point. Those who commit pedophilia do not make up the masses, nor, as per Evo's question, does not make them pedophile lovers.

In all institutions,it never began with JWs or solely engulfs them alone. As far as I am concern the grooming gangs do not make up all of you in the UK, just that small pocket of persons who has an intent to do bad to young British girls. The same way for me and others in the US who are of color or an ethnic background, the actions of a black man does not define all of us. In the JWs case, they are 8.5 million and growing, should one commit these acts, it does not define all the other 8.5 million among them.

You need to open your eyes because you cannot single out a sole group when the problem is all over and in all forms of society even the government i.e. Theresa May who had her hands tied before regarding children, but not of sex abuse.

Yes they do know, but at the same time, there are people going about, even combating the problem in the best way, not going on a warpath to cease a faith from existence.

There has been a few in the UK, some of these protesters also stem into the Robinson party, anti-Islam and a list of other things. A problem with some of these protests is they are also quick to spread conspiracy as well, and I did post some facts about this before, and I thank Jack Ryan who is supposedly an Atheist, for it.

God is aware that all types of wickedness is in the world, and clearly Christians know that God himself will be the one to make things right. The same issue you have regarding child abuse as with all people who dealt with it in a similar fashion and t pain it brings, this will be mended on God's Day.

If it is a test you speak of, we have to be vigilant and enduring always even in the face of problems.

The only reason people join them, and are still growing, is the of the teachings intertwined with their community. Yes some of them will have conflict and or some thing going on with others in their faith community - as with all of us, but it will not stop one from following their faith no matter how you try to knock it.

If you truly believe in God, you would not be oblivious of what he will do to wicked people. A time will indeed come, but as for us, we have to be smart about all things, even in regards of child abuse.

I could answer you on many of the things you have written but in honesty i cannot be bothered. There is no point. We have totally different viewpoints, so be it. 

The GB / JW Org have said many times (and it has been in print on here) that a person has to be a JW member to be saved through Armageddon. Now you are not a JW, so you must have your own reasons for not being a JW. And I would think you do not agree with the GB of the JW Org on the point of being saved only through them.  

You must have reasons for not being a JW, yet you defend them so well. It is your choice.

You seem to think I want to destroy the JW religion, you are wrong. I want to see the JW Org cleansed, so that if it is God's chosen organisation then God can use it to the full.  BUT if it is God's chosen religion then you should be careful, as you are not one of them.  So maybe when Jesus comes to judge us he may find that you are not among his faithful followers. 

Now you have said that the number of JW's is increasing, but that may not be in a true sense. As I've said before, they seem to be allowing much younger children to 'put in reports' of doing the ministry. The number of JW's earthwide is counted by the number of people doing the ministry. In the past it would only be the older members, not the very young children, putting in a monthly report. However it would seem possible that very young children are being allowed to put in reports, and so pushing up the numbers falsely. Jesus sent out men, not very young children, into the ministry. The JW Org seems to be doing all it can to make things 'look' good. 

@JW Insider "Although the very next year, the Watchtower moved back to the idea of illiteracy in language education."

Though still using the same scripture ?

You're not suggesting that the GB twisted scripture one way then the other are you ? Just for their own purpose 

'Moved back to' seems to mean that they first used a scripture one way, then another way, then back to the first way.  Wow how reliable is that folks ?

@BillyTheKid46 Quote "It’s unfortunate former members market the conspiracy theories instead of speaking about their normal lives and why they were disfellowshipped". 

Wow how sly is that ? If no one else can see it, it is giving the impression that no one leaves the JW Org, they only get disfellowshipped. 

Sorry to burst your bubble Billy but many of us actually choose to leave the JW Org. Or as they will put it we Disassociate ourselves from JW Org. And yes it would be wonderful to hear why so many leave the Org of their own choice. 

13 hours ago, Thinking said:

Aaaah now you have become a personal judge of me....are you yourself now not becoming self righteous and pious in your words and manner...time to step down of your self made throne John.

Jehovah does not need you to point out or make known the errors of his people....do you honestly think he needs any human to do that....do you honestly think he did not foresee and know full well what would happen amongst his own people....why do you think he warned us in Peter that he would start judgement with his own household...

Do you think Jehovah cannot clean his own house....

A lot of us don’t follow the GB...we follow,the scriptures and test it out as the beroeans did....you assume we are all puppets...you give no respect to many brothers and sisters who have stronger faith than yourself.....John you have a big mouth.....I can say that because once I did to....Peter had a big mouth too....but he learnt humility...and eventually I learnt it to....and not from any GB...but from reading the scriptures and allowing them to discipline me and correct me....

john did Jehovah clean out the Jewish System before he placed the messiah amongst them....your reasoning is flawed....

you are persecuting your brothers and sisters because you are not balanced in your views or thinking....you are making their scriptural command of teaching people the basic truths harder..and you are sowing seeds of doubt without any balanced knowledge as to why things are the way they are....it’s a extremely serious thing you are doing.

i know of elders who have someone’s blood on their hands because of the way they treated that person....but you also could find yourself in such a situation as well.....

i will end this conversation now because it would appear you are hell bent on exposing only the errors and not even acknowledging the wonderful basic truths Jehovah’s witnesses have been responsible for...

you have too much bitterness John...and it has made you unbalanced in your judgement and comprehension...and actually ..your bitterness is probably justified...but it is running you....controlling you....and thus you are it’s slave and not the free man you think you are.

 

 

 

Maybe it's not that Jehovah needs me or others to make complaint, BUT maybe Jehovah wants me and others to make complaint. Now that could be a sifting of those that want a clean Org to those that are prepared to remain in a disgusting Org. Jehovah often has heard the voices of His people and then acted on their behalf. 

So in your opinion what does Jehovah think of the way the GB and Elders deal with the important problems within the JW Org ? Because in my opinion Jehovah is withholding His Holy Spirit from the GB and the Org at this time.  

However i do like that bit where you say "i will end this conversation now because it would appear you are hell bent on exposing only the errors  .... " At least you recognise that there are errors, thank you. 

And you would say that Jesus 'had a big mouth' too then ? The way he spoke to the Pharisees many times. Truth hurts, so you can say i have a big mouth and I will understand your pain. 

Is it me that is making the preaching work harder, or the Pedophile elders and others that bring Jehovah's name into disrepute ? Come on, open your eyes, it's earthwide news now. From that viewpoint it doesn't need me to add to it, people out there already know. I don't get involved in the protests but i know there are protests in many countries about the problems within the JW Org. Has Jehovah planned all this ? Is it serving a purpose ? Is it a testing ? But why would anyone want to be part of such an Org that has known about these things for between 20 and 50 years, and not done anything about it apart from keep records ?  

"you have too much bitterness John" Indeed. Have you been a victim of Child Abuse ? If not then you have no idea. 

James you are so funny i don't know what to believe and what not to believe from you. I'm not saying you tell lies but you make it all sound like a joke. I'll have to just pass it by because i honestly don't know how much of what you say is supposed to be taken seriously. 

@Space Merchant Quote : But you yourself had posted the gofundme to the very man who took on to the side of aggressive witnessing, as they say, the same man who rallied against another, fat shaming, giving death threats and the like. I can quote you even, as well as your comment on a regarding protest. For this man I even made mention, even responded to you at the time regarding this.

You have totally lost me on this one. The only thing i can think of is the London protests, which i thought were going to be peaceful or even silent protests just using banners / slogans. However i found out afterwards that it was not an Anti JW protest but more like an Anti God protest. A homoesxual man protesting and saying that God did not exist was one thing that I disagreed with, and I got muck slung at me for disagreeing with it,  from the organisers. 

So quote me, and make me remember, if you think I'm in favour of aggressive protests....The truth is I am only in favour of sensible peaceful protests and yes i think they can work well. 

As for my question about gangsters allowing JW's to preach in the area, it was a genuine question. And also my question about do JW's carry a gun for protection in such areas, that was also a genuine question. Remember please I'm in England, i do not know how things are in the USA. Yes we have crime here as well but it still feels safe enough to walk the streets in daylight. Well here in Devon it feels safe anyway, maybe not so much in London. 

@Space Merchant Your words : The answer he gave isn't a trick question, anyone can answer it, and it is a simple no. 

Do you know this person well ? I don't know them at all. Therefore I could not answer that question. They asked me if they were a pedophile. How am i supposed to know ?  I cannot say that i think they are or are not. I have nothing to base that decision on.  But you look for any reason to criticise me. So be it. 

And you make accusation saying that, " anyone who loses an argument to a Jehovah's Witness will jump straight to child abuse". That is what i call a blanket statement. And it is an excuse that JW's would use to try to cover up the seriousness of the problem. 

I've told you many times SM, you do not impress me. Nor do you worry me. It's true you have vast knowledge but you pretend to know situations that you do not know, such as actually being a JW. 

I still laugh at anyone that tries to fit me into a category. Anyone that tries to pretend I'm part of a group of this or that. You have no idea.

Maybe if you knew me well you might call me a lone wolf.  I don't need to hang on to others. And I'm not scared of the muck you throw at me. 

God will choose whomever he wants to serve Him. And God will show who the real Faithful Slave is, all in good time.  As for me I will continue to warn others about the dangers of the JW Org, for it would not be a Christian attitude not to warn them. 

I've never said all JW's are pedophiles. What i have said is that the Child Abuse problem within the JW Org is Earthwide.  

8 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I would agree the definition of some words fail with some, especially when it comes to intent. Assertive undermines the reality of some people’s heart to become an excuse to see the true nature of the beast. A good place to start would be with the Proverbs. Ephesians 5:15-17

 

Meanwhile, I will accept your personal insults as they are intended.

 

 

Yes  Ephesians Ch 5 is most interesting. As is verse 1 of chapter 1 which reads:-

1  Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through God’s will, to the holy ones who are in Ephʹe·susa and are faithful in union with Christ Jesus:

We note it is to the Holy Ones. Not the earthly class.

Chapter 5. v1 says : as beloved children, The children of God are the Earthly class.

However v 6 says : ⁶  Let no man deceive you with empty words, for because of such things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience. 

The sons are the Anointed that receive the inheritance. So are the 'sons' of disobedience the Anointed that do not serve God properly ? 

As for your final sentence, you choose how you accept them. 

@JW Insider So where is one supposed to start ? If you are saying that the Bible might not be the book it should be. 

You make the plot thicken very much. For simple men such as i who cannot comprehend so much information, is there no hope ? 

SM talks so much about Strongs. Should we need to dig so deeply to find the truth ?  Some of the disciples / apostles were fishermen, maybe not of the highest intelligence ? No insult intended but what I'm saying is they were inspired by God through Christ so they had divine guidance. What should i have ? I don't expect divine guidance, or should I ?  Jesus was talking to 'chosen ones' when he said 'ask and it will be given to you'. Hence i believe that only a true  anointed class can fully understand the truth of God's word.  

You seem to say that so many different scholars had so many different opinions. And then we have the GB that at times admit they 'get it wrong'.  So who really can we believe ? 

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Not all opposers of the Watchtower are former members.

There is a good percentage of former witnesses that guide their lives by, live and let live standard. Those that are more aggressive usually have been disfellowshipped, or they found themselves with too much time on the internet for them to become a moral fiber of judgment.

The misstatement of judgment can be seen with some but not others. In my case, I am rebuked for speaking the truth through scripture. M.S. is criticized but with a softer tone (Respect) while you are told you are not judged. This comes from the same person. While others use the same formula to ridicule. It appears honesty is far from some people’s heart. They choose who to interact with and who to insult. All while making adjustments and using justification with the word judge. Humor does have its privileges.

 

Best to treat everyone as equal and up the good points and down the bad ones. I've agreed with you on somethings and disagreed with you on others.

I don't judge individuals that i don't really know, in the JW Org or outside, but I speak plainly about what i can see to be true or false. I only judge those i know as to whether i should associate with them or not.

Some on here seem to describe assertive people as aggressive. Maybe they should learn the difference before commenting on people. 

@Equivocation No all questions do not have a direct answer, that is worldly thinking. It is trickery just like the Pharisees tried with Jesus. 

Good try, just not good enough... I'll repeat, I will not judge you. How would I know if you are or not. I know nothing about you. Perhaps if i knew you personally for 6 months, then i could make an assumption. But even assumptions can be wrong. Sorry to disappoint you by not falling for your trick. 

I would not oppose you, i would just give you a balanced viewpoint. It would seem that you and others look for opposition deliberately. 

Pretending to be forgiving does not cut any deal with God. 

. 

1 hour ago, Equivocation said:

They give us the tools and encourage us to learn from the Bible. And from what is said in the publication comes from the Bible by means of teaching and principle.

We follow the teachings because the teachings is true by means of the Scriptures and not follow the scriptures puts you in opposition with God, the righteous ones the meek ones who take up the truth from the Bible will have salvation, we preach what is true to the nations so they can learn who the True God is.

Spiritual Death is indeed a real thing, it can be avoided by follow the Scriptures for death in the spirit means a total alienation from not only the teachings of the Bible, but of Jehovah God. And by showing love we do teach the Word and who God is so whomever we speak the truth to will understand who God is and what he will do for mankind. If you have faith in God you'd be well aware of what he will do, little faith to crumble in the spirit only shows one has little faith in God or is discouraged of the promise. 

I believe God will make things right and people should know who God is, his Kingdom and his Son, Jesus Christ.

I stand by my word - the GB never claimed inspiration at all and like them we follow the true God and his Word.

You are missing the point. What you follow is the GB's interpretation of the scriptures. And the GB say they are not inspired of God's Holy Spirit. So what you follow is the GB that guess about things after they themselves read the scriptures. And as I've said, the GB even make note that they might not be right. 

So for instance, you go on the ministry with a magazine or book to offer to people, but the information in those publications is only guess work by the GB. So it may not be true. You could in fact be offering lies. 

If you teach direct from the Bible that is much better, but you have to have an accurate knowledge of God's word. 

You follow your GB through your elders. You do Not follow God through Jesus christ. 

@Equivocation Quote "I never counted you and I don't see SM throwing all former Jehovah's Witnesses into one pot. He is aware of the different factions of them and the fact he mentioned TGA gives an idea of who among former Jehovah's Witnesses you follow." 

It's 1.30 pm here in England. Time for me to have some lunch. But I'm actually laughing at this of which i quote from you. 

How do i put this in a pleasant manner ? I DO NOT FOLLOW ANYONE. I AM A MAN OF MY OWN THOUGHTS. I AM NOT GUIDED BY OTHER, AS YOU ARE. 

Just because you need to be following someone (your GB and Elders), don't judge me as the same. I do not need to follow anyone human. 

37 minutes ago, Equivocation said:

@JOHN BUTLER If that is the case. Do you see me as a pedophile or a pedophile lover? And are you aware that there is 2 main factions of former Jehovah's Witnesses that wants to be aggressive and the other who are passive yet influential of action? Former Jehovah's Witnesses spare no time to drag my Family name in the street yet we still show mercy from a barrage that comes at us unexpectingly.

I choose Jehovah's Witnesses because I know it is the truth. I am not unaware of the problems this world faces as with what is going on with us because we preach to the people, and at times we do not know the intent of the person. Yes we have the GB, but the core focus is in serving God the Father, Jehovah, no one else.

 

It is not my place to judge you at all. I don't know you. And even if i knew you well it would still not be my place to judge you. Neither God himself or Jesus Christ has given me any authority, so why would i make so bold as to judge you. 

However, are you then judging me as being so wicked as to want to harm you or your family ?  

You say I choose Jehovah's Witnesses because I know it is the truth.  That is a sweeping statement. As I've stated before much of the teachings have been changed many times, so much has not been truth at all.  Length of Creative days, meaning of Superior Authorities and more... To serve Jehovah only, through Jesus Christ only, would mean questioning your GB on many issues. 

50 minutes ago, Equivocation said:

Old and New, New and Old. The GB has never claimed to be inspired and those who say otherwise only proofs true to the very lies they drown themselves in. The hypocrisy and the misleading, but people who know what is true and what is false will say something. 

Ah no, but the GB expect to be believed and obeyed. Even if they do put sly cop outs in their writings. 

GB : Um we might be wrong but we think this and that, but you must follow us and our Org or you will die at Armageddon. 

The threat of spiritual death and physical death of not being in the 'Org' and not following the teachings of the GB. Is that really how God wants people to show love to one another.  

42 minutes ago, Thinking said:

I’m not blind John..I have just become master over my resentment anger and hurt....otherwise I would be like you....persecuting my brothers and sisters...

So exposing people for Child Abuse now becomes 'persecuting my own brothers and sisters' does it ?

Exposing the GB for their heartless rules, their false information and misguidance becomes 'persecuting my own brothers and sisters' does it ? 

Well Jesus was accused of much that wasn't true about him. So accuse me of what you will. God himself will sort out whichever Organisation HE wishes to use, be it the JW Org or not. But if it is the JW org then it will need a lot of cleaning out first. Meanwhile you can carry on being a puppet if you wish, but not a puppet for God, only a puppet for the GB. 

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

This discussion has been an eye-opener!

I always wondered why Santa Clause gave those mountains of presents to "good" little boys and girls, and a whole industry was made having their pictures taken on Santa's lap.

I should have been suspicious when I heard that Department Store Santa say "Have you been a GOOD little girl, Ho Ho Ho?"

You love making fun of a serious subject it seems  

4 hours ago, Gone Away said:

Opinion surely? We can't really state what Paul knew or didn't know on these matters, surely? He must have had some idea that there was a difference between "inspired" and non-inspired religious writings from his experience with the Hebrew Scriptures.

Probably you have a point that isn't coming across clearly to me here.

Well when i first started studying with the JW Org this scripture was used quite regularly. But I just accepted it as saying that the complete Bible was inspired of God. It is of course, but it never occured to me at the time that 'all scripture' had not been written when Paul made that statement. In my opinion, when many people study God's word with the JW's it's a bit parrot fashion, stick to the book. People don't seem to ask questions. I became of this opinion from the Book Study we used to have on a Tuesday evening at people's home. After the study people would stay for tea and biscuits, and there would be conversation. Most of the conversation was spiritual and I would ask people questions of their understanding of certain scriptures. It became clear to me that most JW's never questioned anything. They just took it for granted that the GB and the Org new everything and got everything right. It was from that time that I started to look deeper into God's word. Unfortunately at 69 years old, much of what I had learnt has gone. My mind / memory has deteriorated.  But there are a few things which i still find interesting, and this is one of them. How many JW's ever think of the fact that Paul wrote that information before the other scriptures were written and long before a Bible was composed ? 

7 minutes ago, Equivocation said:

If you understood the gravity about what he is saying he speaks about what former Jehovah's Witnesses have said regarding current Jehovah's Witnesses. They preach that the Watchtower and at the Watchtower Headquarters that there are guns and other weapons of destruction that are hidden within the underbelly of Kingdomsl Hall, which was also brought up last November by former Jehovah's Witnesses. 

England isn't peaceful, you are only lucky to live where the heat has not touched you, but it has for others. Hate Crimes, Acid Attacks, Knife Attacks, even performed by those on bikes, Machetes, and it is even greater in London and Khan does not know his own country, as do most British people, you may be included in the bunch. 

SM is referring to something he posted before if you look at his history. Underage Prostitution is an issue in the United States, and myself, who lives there, the Tri State area, can tell you this is an actual problem. If I am not mistaken SM isn't a practitioner of voodoo, there are those in the Caribbean that do, I know because I am Dominican andthis is true when it comes to off limit areas. At the same time a lot of people are against voodoo and SM in his past comments made it known some of his family members had been killed by those who practice it if you look at his forum history and Blood and Crips are American gangs, some of them having affiliation to child/underage Prostitution wherever the money is coming from they will have a hand in it.

If the Jehovah's Witness who is most likely a black teenager did something  he would be killed. his family would be killed. And it is stupid to confront an underaged prostitute who is heavily connected to gang members, the most common being Bloods and Crips. If you were in that position, most likely you would have been killed, perhaps followed home and your actions caused the death of not only you alone but your family also and nearby folks who do not know what's going on. It's called street smarts and situations like this you should not get involved in, take example from 1 Thessalonians 4:11 to 18.

Yes some situations are grime, but it cannot always be helped. You cannot care for your family or friends regardless of the relationship if you are a corpse, you should be aware of that.

Blood and Crips as well as the MS 13 are hardcore in their craft and there is little chance of them breaking away for if you leave a hand it is a high chance you'll be assassinated in the most brutal fashion and be made an example of.

If you follow the British man TGA, you are aligned with his belief of Jehovah's Witnesses harboring firearms. This isn't the case because me or my family do not stockpile weapons under the halls nor do we stash poison or even think of killing a fellow man with poison. But you, former Jehovah's Witnesses wouldn't give a care if you influence a man to commit arson and riddle the halls with bullets, yet we do not act as others do, we do not seek vengeance but you guys make it seems we do.

The bystander effect can take up anyone and most likely it can be the case with you. Be very careful of London, Shadiq Khan was wrong to speak of how safe it is.

Wow, someone rattle your cage ? You are joining forces with S.M. ?

You are counting me amongst violent people ? Just because i am an Ex-JW you think I'm a gangster ? 

Climb down off your high horse for a moment. If you are a JW you sure don't sound like one. 

I never said England was peaceful. I said "I'm so glad I'm here in a peaceful part of England"  I know what happens in other parts. My brother and sister live in our hometown of Reading, just 30 miles from London. I visit occasionally but only stay for the shortest of time. 

I also wasn't suggesting that S.M. practised Voodoo. I was suggesting that Voodoo was practised in the area where he lived, as he seems to know about such things. 

As for me 'following' anyone else, you are totally off course. You seem to be suggesting that anyone that is an Ex-JW must be part of a movement of some kind. How wrong you are. I am not that weak. I do not need holding up by others. I am my own man. 

I have no thoughts of JW's having firearms. i have no thoughts of JW's harming others physically. BUT i do have thoughts of the GB and JW Org harming people spiritually. 

SM, you seem to like to say that all Ex-JW's cause trouble. You seem to put them all in the same pot together.

Every person on this Earth is an individual. So it is also with Ex-JW's. 

I for one would never cause physical harm to anyone. I do not go to protest marches or mobs. I do not believe all I read. I never buy a newspaper as each one is biased in one direction or the other. And i do not deliberately hurt people's emotions. I just speak truth as i know it.

You have spoken with ex-JW's about their feelings and thoughts. Well that is good. But i tell you that JW's are not allowed to speak to ex-JW's, it is forbidden. Shunning as you know is common. So, JW's cannot ever get a balanced view. If a person is born, raised and schooled in the JW Org', then that is all they ever know. Because they are told not to look outside. 

My point is to bring some balance in, to let people know that the JW Org is not as pure and clean as some may think. I sit in the middle if you like, a sort of neutral position.  Amos 5 v 15

Hate what is bad, and love what is good, Let justice prevail in the city gate.It may be that Jehovah the God of armies Will show favor to the remaining ones of Joseph.’

If you see hate in me sometimes, then it is because i follow God's word and want what is right for people. Just as this scripture says.