12 hours ago, Thinking said:

Yes it is John ...just as it was wrong of Arron to build the golden calf in the wilderness...some witnesses seem to live in fairy land and think we as a people are so different to the Israelites of the wilderness when in fact we are the same. 

But don't let it escape your notice .... just as Moses did finally come down of that mountain and sort that wayward people out...so too will jesus come back and sort us lot out,,, 

so you leave because of wrong doing of a few in power ... what is escaping your notice is when those in the wilderness were directed to go forth and take the land ...only Joshua and Kaleb stood firm .. the rest had no faith in their God ... who were they ....they were the cheiftans of the tribes..men in authority ...they were not just any little Israelite man from the camp..they were probably men that were hand picked by Moses ...yet their error brought calamity down on their own people ....these things are relayed to us for an example ..to teach us ....can we really expect it to be so different today.

instead of causing division and doubt why not consider Joshua's and Kalebs insight and understanding... why not imitate their faith and encourage those in this confusing time that Jesus will return just as Moses did and sort this mess out and bring about justice and peace to the hurt sheep ...

You talk of the Nation of Israel. They were God's chosen people. Not by their choice as individuals though. So it cannot be compared to the JW Org. The JW Org is made up of individuals that have made a choice to be in that Org. The Org is supposed to be like a New nation. A safe place, a hiding place from the storm of the world. It should be 'looked after', watched over and guided by men of pure hearts. But it isn't. It's an organisation of dictatorship with the threat of death if a person disobeys. Spiritual death at first, then physical death at Armageddon, ( if you believe what he GB says ). 

You said 'so you leave because of wrong doing of a few in power'. Let me remind you of Hitler. He was in power, but why ? Why did he have such power ?  Because people feared him and so they did as they were told. They were his puppets. Hitler could not have done as much on his own. It was because he had so much of Germany under his control and they 'did just so', obeyed his every command without thought or feeling for others. It is the same in the JW org. The Elders are in fear of the GB. The GB are the hitler of the Org. So the Elders are the puppets of the GB, and in turn the congregants are in fear of the Elders, so the congregants are the puppets of the Elders. That is why the JW Org is not pure and clean. If you pollute a river from its source, that pollution will run down through the whole river, polluting all in its path. So it is with the JW Org, the pollution starts with the GB and it runs down through. 

You are saying to me then, why not be part of this pollution ? Why not invite other people into this polluted Organisation ? 

I think you will now understand why I left it all. Well you will understand if you want to, but if you want to continue to be blind then so be it.  

52 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

You misinterpret my words, a good Christian man, or woman, can be subjected to brutality by other Christians, it's called infighting and it does exist, and bystander effect effects ALL of them, regardless of their background and the situation.

Let's put you and Srecko in a situation that derives from my country.

You see a violent verbal dispute go about 2 women in a merchant's market, and a fight nearly broke out and it did not happen, the next few days came about and out of nowhere occultist were seeking this woman out, revealing that the one who started the conflict not only had ties to these 2 of these occultist, but hired them to do away with the other woman how they see fit. You witness this going about, so what would you or Srecko would do? I can tell you right now, such ones, their intent isn't a one and done beating, nor was it rape, occultist in that country will tear and gut people in the most gruesome fashion, the only reason they lure people and or take people by force. Do not expect the police because in rural areas, half of them are for these occultist and the other half are not wanting to take risk because they too will have to deal with their actions, for they become victim or their family members.

Clearly you would not be able to do a thing and even if you had, they'd attack you on the spot and or take you also and be twice as worse with you.

Nowadays this is on a minimum, but this can and will actually happen, it isn't too far from someone sending a Hitman, minus the wickedness.

This is one of many examples.

The JW I mentioned who witnessed the crime and it's illegality was a teenager around the ages 16-17, and granted he lived in that neighborhood and was preaching there, he witnessed the ordeal with the underage prostitute and those around here, if he did take action, it is not unknown to anyone of what would happen, if you or Srecko were in his shoes, most likely they will come for you, hunting you down, perhaps a drive-by should you say anything, or they would go for your family before they come after you, which is the common case with gangsters regarding someone they are targeting. Bystander Effect would kick in even though you want to do something, perhaps speak up but you cannot, mainly when you are one man, or in this situation, one man of color. The police can be corrupted also and even if you ask them, they'd set you up to be in the hands of the gangsters, and should you try to convince the underage prostitute to flee from the gang, she, who is already mentally linked with the gangsters, would also expose you.

So technically you have no ground here, the only viable option is to gain community support while remaining anonymous and it would most likely do something, however, the problems will persist for issues like this cannot be 100% purged from a neighborhood, let alone all over the United States and or around the Worldwide.

There is a time to be wise and at some of these times, one cannot be stupid when they know the risks, at the same time should you play your part, know that action can also reap consequences to others and or oneself.

Also check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

It is complicated, but it is true.

 

The gangsters allow Jehovah's Witnesses to walk around preaching in these areas ?  And do the JW's carry guns? 

I'm so glad I'm here in a peaceful part of England, although you know we have murders here but they are rare occurrences.  

I believe that God finds a person, a person doesn't find God. But how does a person when found by God get out of such a situation as you have mentioned ? An under age prostitute. How will she be able to change her ways so that she can serve God ?  A drug dealer that wants to leave his organisation of criminals. It must be difficult for him to break away and start a new life. But, yes we know, with God all things are possible. 

 

I always thought cows were female, having udders.. I thought it was bulls and steers that were male  

Chickens too are female here in UK. Males are cockerels or roosters.

But I think you are referring to this Macho male image of a man. Does that come from spending years in the Armed Forces or are you naturally a rough, tough type of guy ?  

I have no idea where S.M. lives but by the way he talks it must be a dark and dismal violent sort of place, full of voodoo, witch doctors, blood shed and other wickedness. 

 

14 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

The Two Witness ruling of Jehovah's Witnesses isn't used on covering abusers, I explained this to you and others before on this thread:

NBC cannot be trusted anyways as of what we had already seen with the whole pipe bomb things an what they tried to do to Muller.

And i still disagree with you. I don't care what you study and what you know. You have great knowledge but do you have experience of the JW Org personally ? You are not one and I presume you would not be one. 

Many of the victims Earthwide have said they were not believed because of the two witness rule.  Don't believe it, ok, have your own thoughts on it all. 

Having been a JW in more than one congregation, for many years,  i know how some Elders work. Having been threatened with being disfellowshipped by an elder that didn't have the authority to do it, I have seen their 'works'.  They do not go by the rules all the time, or, in fact, it's more the point of, the written rules on paper are just a front.  Those things you might read on paper, written by the Governing Body or more likely by their Legal Departments, are all a complete front. They do it because it's what is expected of them. But they don't live by it.

Become a JW yourself if you think they are so right. Spend five years in the JW Org, see the things that really happen.  Otherwise stop pretending to know things that you have no real idea about.  

I stand corrected, thank you. But the rest of the comment still stands. When Paul wrote those words he didn't know about the other scriptures to follow. Nor did he know about a 'Bible' being formed. 

I have now corrected the first comment. I should think more deeply before i write  

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

If things were exactly the same now, then yes, this would make them hypocrites. But it's a matter of what was actually "known" even though what we thought we "knew" was really based on assumptions. We assumed that fornication was a huge problem and pedophilia was a nearly non-existent problem. We probably also assumed that "kids" lie and elders tell the truth, because that has been built into the system for decades.

Who is the 'we' in these cases ?  In Australia it seems they had been collecting information about the Pedophiles in the Org for over 50 years. And in the USA in 1997 the GB started to collect info about the same thing. Though I would think that unofficially the GB had been collecting info for as long as Australia Org had. So to presume that the GB / Org 'assumed that kids lie and elders tell the truth' seems a bit far fetched. 

And the bit about 'built into the system for decades'. Do you mean built into the JW Org from the GB ? 

And it's back to, Why wouldn't the GB and its legal departments hand over all the information to the authorities in the USA? It's not a question of the legal standing surely, it's a question of what is right in God's eyes. 

They even tried to resist here in the UK, but gave some of the info' eventually. Did they give all the info' in Australia ?  Why has each country acted differently ? It's God's standards that need to be upheld not legal standards of each country. 

And, are things the same now ? The two witness rule still applies doesn't it ?  They can accuse two adults of opposite sex of committing fornication with no witnesses, but will not believe a child or its parents when abuse has taken place. 

And it seems they don't even think about two people of the same sex having a sexual relationship. Brothers can live in a house together, go anywhere together and no questions. But if one brother and one sister should dare to go anywhere together they are accused of fornication. Very old fashioned human way of thinking. Not scriptural at all. 

Ah, but what would you do to a man that had assaulted someone else, someone not able to defend themselves ? 

Would you turn away and say it's not my business ? 

"All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,"

2 Timothy 3 v 16

Was this in it's way a small prophecy ?                 

The 2nd book of Timothy was written 65 C.E.  However 1,2,3, John and Revelation were written much later.

So we have two points, 1. The writings were not complete when Paul wrote that information. 2, The Bible had not been constructed so no idea would have been formed as to what the Bible would contain. 

Were there other writings ? Would they be considered as Scripture? 

It seems that Paul was inspired to write that "All scripture is inspired.... " 

"The Truth". How widely meaning and many areas are covered in this word. 

Yes, too many areas and too many meanings. In a law court people will swear on the Bible to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth... But it means nothing to person that wants to tell lies. Swearing on the Bible would just be one more lie for them to tell. 

And with Bible truth, who really knows. Do you think God meant all of us to go as far as Strong's Concordance to study His word ? I think not. 

And in my opinion, I feel that only the Anointed can have the 'true' understanding. I think that an Anointed class Earthwide is needed to get full understanding. This is a long way from the JW, Governing Body viewpoint. They think it is only them 8 men that can pass on understanding to us all... I think God will show us all who the real Anointed are when He is ready to reveal it  to us. Until then we just have to wait. 

 

16 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

"I like a man who grins when he fights!"  -  Winston Churchill

I never was interested in war or hero worship. 

7 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

John Butler:

I understand where you are coming from, and I agree that in many cases you are absolutely correct .... however, as an unrepentent Barbarian, I know full well what my life would have been like if not for Jehovah's Witnesses, worts, harelips, fungus toenails and all .... it would have been despicable, and brief.  I would have killed a LOT of innocent people ... well ... relatively innocent.

There is a lot that goes on in soldiering that is terrible, truly awful, and reprehensible .... but that is the nature of people with profound responsibilities, and limited abilities.

You chose to go AWOL .

Winston Churchill during WWI was a deeply flawed man, as were all those fighting the Nazis ... but the alternative was a fool like Neville Chamberlain.

The deeply flawed British and American Armies saved your ass during WWII, from Nazi Tyranny, and the reason you are not a slave, or a Nazi, and German being your first language today is because a deeply flawed Organization came to your rescue, even before you were born.

For me and my children, the same thing with Jehovah's Witnesses.

We know the difference, and stayed to fight.

Sorry i was a bit harsh with you, but you do tend to make light of the serious stuff sometimes which annoys me. Well I'm only a sinner so get a bit urrrr sometimes. 

I wrote something on my Facebook page one time. "Which is worse. Hate based on reality or Love based on lies?" 

I still haven't figured out the answer to it yet. 

What have you stayed to fight ?  The world or the GB of JW org ?  

What you've said seems to say, that putting something wrong in the place of something that is more wrong, is ok.

2 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Please, give some example how looks your hate and your love in everyday life .... :))

For some of us there are emotions / feelings in between Love and Hate. 

We should love our neighbours, but can't say a i do. I tend not to get involved with my neighbours, but i do consider their feelings when i do things outside of the house. So in my opinion showing consideration is a way of showing love, but in an indirect way. 

For some people, those that have had a good upbringing and have been shown love, it is probably easier to show love to others. But when life has kicked you down for more than half a century then showing love becomes more difficult.  God understands all this of course, but never expect people to understand. 

I show 'love' to some people by just completely ignoring them. Well it's better than doing them harm  .

Hate, I think we all hate something or someone at times. We are all sinners and fall short in many ways. 

But you know the things i hate, no need to repeat them again. 

12 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

A "Man Year" is considered to be 50 weeks per year, times 40 hours per week, with a theoretical 2 week vacation every year.

That means One "Man-Year" equals 2,000 hours a year, so for 25 years that is 50,000 hours.

It takes about 50,000 hours, on the average, to get ONE new Jehovah's Witness Convert, who will stay in the "fold", his entire lifetime.

I cheated.

I got married, and had three children, and raised them to adulthood to be strong, independent, thinking people.

All three ( to the best of my knowledge ...) are very strong and active in theocratic activity and are progressing wonderfully.

They know the difference between what is Truth, and what is drivel, and ignore the drivel.  My oldest Son was recently made an Elder.

The fact of the matter is ... it is quicker, and less work to create new children, and raise them in the Truth, than it is to go from door to door, to bring people to Jehovah

That is ....  if you are looking for permanent, long term results.

Of course, that has been my experience .... results will vary with each "Publishers" personality and perspective on life, which will be reflected in type and style, and content of his Ministry.

And pure, dumb luck.

Of course, I will never know how they all turned out at the end of their lives, as I will be dead.

 

 

 

 

Raised on lies and the ideas and orders of the GB. Wow a wonderful upbringing. 

Stop calling it the Truth, because it isn't. That is just how you and yours have been brainwashed. 

You must surely know how many times the GB and their writers have changed 'opinions' on things and changed the meaning of scriptures.  The 'superior authorities' scripture for instance,  the 'this generation' scripture' is another. The timing of Armageddon, the length of the 'creative days'. 

And you call it Truth ? It was all lies. And you raised your children on it.

Do they ever talk about the Child Abuse in the Org, Earthwide ? Do you all sit around the table and talk about how much children have suffered because of the rules form the GB ? 

And now your son is an Elder, a GB puppet and Org police officer.  He will have decisions to make. Will he do what is right or will he obey the GB ? 

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I think that hits the point exactly. The elders, especially during previous years, were directly taught at KM school (Elder Training) that the first time that there is suspicion of two persons of the opposite sex spending hours of time alone together, that there should be some kind of very strong counsel and even sanction due to the appearance alone, even if the elders were convinced that they were innocent of loose conduct. It was the same at Bethel, because there was a rule against being alone with a sister in your room unless the door was open, this meant that as soon as the door was closed, there should be strong counsel and even sanction. I knew that the rule was often broken, and I think that very few would turn someone else in, yet multiple infractions of the rule could mean dismissal.

If a couple of the opposite sex ever were seen to have contrived to be alone together, it was simply assumed that they went too far in their conduct with one another. The elder training gave examples of appropriate questions to ask, even if it was not overnight, and these questions assumed the worst, and would try to draw out a confession of "loose conduct." There would be a probation or loss of privileges of some kind, even if both vehemently denied any misconduct.

If the time spent together appeared contrived, and was overnight, especially if reported by a third party who saw a car parked overnight in front of the other person's house,  then the assumption was always that fornication had occurred and that any denial means the two are lying. The types of questions to be asked gave away the assumption of immorality and dishonesty. If they had previously been counseled, this could immediately escalate to disfellowshipping. 

Having been raised in the truth, and having gone to school in Missouri, I didn't realize until I went to college that many of our assumptions were similar to many of the fundamentalists around us. It wasn't just JWs but most old-time religionists, assuming that leaving two persons of the opposite sex alone together was always an instant recipe for fornication and/or adultery. If you listened to radio preachers you'd hear the same assumptions. Witnesses were also assuming that there was nothing else that young people could possibly be interested in.

It wasn't until after Bethel when I went to college that I realized that many persons were immoral, but also that many had morals likely superior to ours. And most surprisingly that many persons of the opposite sex actually lived together as roommates and still didn't ever worry about the topic of sex/fornication ever coming up. Now, I have seen statistics that show that teenage pregnancies were always much higher in the "Bible Belt." Perhaps part of the problem was in the assumption that young people have nothing better to do.

And all the while the Org / GB / Elders were hiding Pedophiles and allowing Child Abuse and using the Two Witness rule as an excuse. And would you tell me the GB are not hypocrites ? 

13 hours ago, Thinking said:

Yes I know what you are saying....but the thing is..Jehovah is using them to get the job done (preaching work)...he is backing that work....and he will use whatever he has at his disposal  to achieve that...for as you know he cannot bring the end until the preaching work is accomplished...but having respect for what he is using and allowing doesn’t mean we are gullible....we still must be like the beroeans who tested out Paul before they put faith in him....it’s hard but doable ..

Years ago when I was struggling with anger and resentment a brother shared this scripture with me...I’ll write it as written In the message bible...

AMOS 5:13,14

Justice is a lost cause Evil is epidemic Decent people throw up their hands, protest and Rebuke are useless a waste of time..14 seek good and not evil and live.....

 

 

Amos 5 v 13 & 14 

¹³  Therefore, those with insight will keep silent at that time, For it will be a time of calamity.¹⁴  Search for what is good, and not what is bad, So that you may keep living.Then Jehovah the God of armies may be with you, Just as you say he is.

I know nothing of your message bible but it seems to have it's own words. Very strange. But read the whole chapter and you will get it in context. 

However you say, 'but having respect for what he is using', Um, stop there. It is your opinion that Jehovah is using them, not mine. And when a person looks into the lies and misquotes, and backtracking, that the GB do, then a person can see that the GB is not being used as some people may think. 

5 hours ago, Martha Braun Amistadi said:

If anyone doesn't like what Jehovah's Witnesses believe and do, they are free to go somewhere else to seek what pleases them. Why cause negativity with those you appear to associate with, but really you have a different agenda than what appears on the surface? Beautiful pearls will not satisfy those who are porcine-like. Find your happiness without trying to undermine the joy of the unity of Jehovah's people. Yes, we know that the other religions may officially know about God's Name. But, how many call on the Name of Jehovah? Do they think upon His Name? Do they respectfully think and speak of it to others? The years I spent in Christendom were a waste. I proudly carry the Name of Jehovah, and have been carrying it for over 40 years. Perhaps, you will contritely get on your knees and approach the throne of mercy, and beg Jehovah's forgiveness. Pray for his holy spirit to guide you in the ways of understanding and peace. Leave the worldly thinking behind. Meditate on the mind of Christ, not with critical thinking as the unhappy world is filled with. Let the joy of Jehovah be your stronghold. Serve the happy God in modesty. Love His perfect word. Follow closely in Christ Jesus' footsteps. Preach the Good News of God's Kingdom. Teach the healthful pattern of words. May you find the road that leads to everlasting life.

I left the JW Org at the beginning of this year due to the massive amount of Child Abuse / Pedophilia that has been and still is allowed to go on in the JW Org. 

All you say about serving God, be it Yahweh or Jehovah, had no connection to the JW Org. This is something I'm trying to get into people's heads. The JW Org does not 'own' God. God, through Jesus Christ is available to anyone, not just through your GB. 

The GB have in fact put themselves in the place of Jesus Christ. They have said many times in the past, and it has been shown here on this website, that the GB have said, people can only be saved through Armageddon by being part of JW Org and by doing exactly what the GB say. Now that is putting themselves in the place of Jesus and its totally wrong. 

18 minutes ago, Thinking said:

We ALL have the power to stumble another....no matter who we Are...

Yes but some pretend to have authority, so they demand attention. Whereas others are just honest in their thoughts and comments. 

3 minutes ago, Thinking said:

So should you and I John....

Explain please.

I don't pretend to be of the Anointed. I am not a puppet Elder.  I am open about the fact that I don't understand many things in God's word. 

I'm not asking anyone to follow me. 

20 minutes ago, Martha Braun Amistadi said:

Truth from Jehovah always will be. Our imperfect brains cannot always understand it when it first shines. (Prov.3:5, 6) When Jesus spoke about people eating his flesh and drinking his blood, the faithful apostle Peter, not comprehending what Jesus meant, was asked by Him: "You do not want to go also, do you?" Simon Peter answered him: " Lord,whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life. We have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God. "  Peter didn't quite get what he'd just learned. Did that mean Jesus wasn't the "Anointed One" ? Peter knew from whom he had learned the truth. Paul pointed the same out to Timothy and what he should do. (2Tim. 3:14, 15) What organization brought the Truth to us? Jehovah's Witnesses made plain the importance of the Bible in learning about God and His purposes. Foremost of these surrounds His glorious Name. Where else do we find a people for His Name? (Matt.6:9, 10; Acts 15:14) So, what we don't yet understand, we humbly wait for from Jehovah in His time. We also don't stir up controversy, arguing about words. (Psa. 62:1-8; 2 Tim. 2:14, 15) Clearly, Jesus appointed our Governing Body. (Matt. 24:45-47) Careful, personal study, along with heartfelt prayer, use of publications they've provided us will be helpful. Humbly, peacefully ask your congregation overseers also to help. May Jehovah's holy spirit bring peace to us all.

You say many things that you have no proof of. You seem to be just another puppet JW. 

The name Jehovah was in use for a very long time before the JW's started using it. A Catholic monk maybe, started using the name ?

As for comparing your GB with Jesus that is totally wrong. Jesus PROVED who he was, even resurrecting people in God's name. What have your GB done ? Nothing but make a name for themselves in the wrong way. 

You say, What organization brought the Truth to us? i say not the GB of the JW Org.  Because they tell so many lies, or mistakes as they would call it. And even in the Revelation book they had to say on page nine, "It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible." Wow, really had faith in God then didn't they ?  They have known all along that what they say is pure guesswork. 

You think Jesus appointed your GB ? Dream on. 

Martha, I kind of feel sorry for you. I'm not anti-JW Org completely, but I really cannot understand how anyone could swallow it all hook, line and sinker. Without any questions, not even about the Child Abuse, the Shunning, oh dear..... 

2 hours ago, Thinking said:

 

The apostles also believed errors....in thinking Jesus Kingdom was coming there and then ...and he would be a king amongst them.....and the thing is....Jesus ALLOWED that error to be believed by them....he knew exactly what they were hoping in and believing.....yet he deliberately chose for them to go on believing that lie or mistaken belief ...

im sure there was more to that than I can work out..but I can see it was a testing and a threshing of their faith....they had made their own assumptions...and leant on their own understandings.....much like we as a people have...at times....and he has allowed it once again...and for more good and spiritual  reasons that I can work out.....but I have worked a bit out...and it is a time of confusion and threshing and sifting....

we are very much like the Christians of Jesus times....nothing seems to be working out like we thought...we have assumed wrong things...taught wrong things...some really major stuff ups actually ...

without  doubt....each and every one of Jehovah’s people are being sifted...our errors are being allowed....

Your missing the big picture Srecho.....since when has his people ever been with out errror...it’s a pattern we have down thru the ages....the Israelites...the Jewish System....and he warmed us about wolves in sheeps clothing infiltrating the congs and misleading many....the Jambares and jannis type of men...

You have put too much faith in Men my brother...and you have allowed them to stumble you.....look beyond them...and to Jehovah....he will correct the errors as he always has done with his people....

i know it’s very hard and painful ...at times agonizing...but being threshed and winnowed is just that....

Jehovah forgave Aaron his betrayal...he forgave Peter his betrayals.....also stop and think about this....the Jewish System was so bad...so self righteous and pious.(those in positions of authority )..yet Jehovah still allowed that people..his people....to birth the messiah....incredible really isn’t it....he put his son right in the midst of them...

what you wrote above is all true...logical.....I get what your saying  and why you say it....but I’m sorry but I still feel you are missing the big picture....but hey...I miss a lot of fine details.....actually I often wonder why he bothers with any of us...:)

 

 

Luke 17 v 1&2.  Then he said to his disciples: “It is unavoidable that causes for stumbling should come. Nevertheless, woe to the one through whom they come! ²  It would be more advantageous for him if a millstone were hung from his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to stumble one of these little ones. 

The GB should take not. 

44 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What in this words told by Jesus need some extra context with some special interpretation, that is not visible while reader reading it? - “You have heard that it was said, ...."

Those who listened Jesus at moment he gave sermon knew well WHO told them;

1) You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.

2) You shall not commit adultery

3) Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.

4) Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made

5) Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.

6) Love your neighbor  and hate your enemy.

It is noticeable how Jesus have extra appendix on every of this listed, quoted things he made. Did he go beyond already said and written? He gave some  additional explanation? He gave not just an explanation, but even a guide that differs from what they were taught.

All this 6 points you can find in Ten commands and Mosaic Law. But one you would not find - "hate your enemy". But Bible have idea of hating. Not only hating bad things in general or bad deeds made by people. Bible talking about hate that is directed towards other people. 

General idea of "hating" is visible in book Ec. 3:8. ...a time to love and a time to hate. 

Very specific way of hating is visible in;

Psalm 139:21,22 ....Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Hosea 9:15 Every evil of theirs is in Gilgal; there I began to hate them 

Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters— yes, even his own life— he cannot be My disciple.

In sermon, Jesus talking about NOT HATING enemy but also about HATING family members. 

You can talk about so called CONTEXT how much you wish and want, but what is said - it is said, and how it was said -it was said. WTJWorg in some of Bible verses  found basis for shunning, avoiding and ignoring those who disagree about WT doctrines.      

In one moment Jesus making corrections about Mosaic Law and oral teaching, oral law. In next moment he has told something that WT scholars using for own Oral laws and commands and instructions.

Do you still want continue to insist on so called Context? What Context, when whole  Bible can be used for particular interest of  governing elite. :))) Each group will find its context and claim how that is A Context. :))

 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14 v 26).

Yes very strong words indeed. But i still think they were addressed only to the Anointed. 

2 minutes ago, Gone Away said:

Oh, that means it takes the average publisher about 1825 years to help one person become a Jehovah's Witness.

The 'average publisher' doesn't even get inside the person's house to give a study. Hence they brought in the idea of 'having a small study' on the doorstep. Many 'studies' are just old folk that want someone to talk to or someone to do their shopping for them. 

It sounds really impressive when someone has 3 or 4 studies, until you find out the details of what the 'study' actually consists of. 

On 10/31/2018 at 4:25 PM, Shiwiii said:

Ok, maybe my opinion isn't needed here but I am sure to give it anyway.

 

What happened to individual morals? If two people are adults, and I mean mature enough to understand the dangers of being alone together out of public view after a wonderful evening, etc. , why must other adults....err....grown men stick their noses in other people's business? Sure there can be some accountability held by informing a friend or family member of the evening plans or whatever, but to have an adult principal to oversee your dance party/movie night/dinner date is actually pathetic and demonstrates a lack of self control and a willingness to let others dictate YOUR life.  This whole idea that elders have some sort of authority over how you live your life is expressing that jws as a whole cannot make their own decisions and must sneak and hide like high school kids. If you have no personal boundaries, then you are going to do what you are going to do, its just like integrity, you have it or your don't. 

I just don't get it.

And this backs up what i've said before about congregants being frightened of the Elders. It's a sad life sometimes being a JW. 

On 11/1/2018 at 2:24 AM, Nicole said:

How could it be when you have to travel with a  co-worker (opposite sex) and stay at a rented house (different rooms) to attend a congress, an exhibition? 

Maybe it is my erratic perception but as for what I read in the Spanish version of that article,  you are already guilty from the moment you spend the night , at the same house with someone who is not your spouse, (no matter if you spend the night locked in your room watching the JW Broadcasting)  and now you have to prove your innocence ?

 

Preguntas de los lectores

Si dos cristianos que no están casados entre sí pasan la noche en la misma casa en circunstancias impropias, ¿prueba eso que han pecado, y por tanto hay que formar un comité judicial?

Yep, Elders are just puppets of the GB.  Child Abuse needs TWO WITNESSES  Two people in the same house needs NO WITNESSES. 

I know two brothers that share a house. Now you guys have been talking about hetrosexual relationships, BUT, what about homosexual relationships ? Oh dear the plot thickens. 

And I've known many occasions where one brother and one sister have gone out into the countryside to do the 'door to door ministry'. 

If it were me, and an Elder asked me, I would tell him to find something better to do. I would make it known to the whole congregation exactly what i was being accused of. Elders need putting in their place sometimes. They are supposed to be 'servants' of the congregation, but they try to 'lord over it'. 

Shepherds, Imitate the Greatest Shepherds 

¹⁰ Jesus expects elders to treat the flock the same way that he treated it. They must be willing to serve their brothers and sisters, instead of acting as their masters.

(from JW org) 

Jehovah God will judge each of us individually through Jesus Christ. People / men, are needed of course, to run any organisation, or it would not be organised. But they should know their limits and even question their superiors if needs be. Elders treating the GB as if the GB are gods, does not help the situation, and indeed it has caused many of the present problems within the Org. 

This is all good stuff but it proves to me that God only gives the right information, through Holy spirit, to those whom He chooses. Hence for everyone to read the bible does not always prove good. Even those that study Theology don't get it right all the time.. 

We know of course that The Word / Jesus, was created by God the Father. Jesus made it so clear on many occasions. Such as saying :-

The Father is greater than i am...  And at Mark 13 v 32 

“Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father."