JOHN BUTLER

@JW Insider "But only persons who have an extreme ego, or who confuse Jehovah with the organization, believe they are "helping Jehovah." 

Oh I love that, how true.

 This is why James could say that true religion that is spotless will look after orphans and widows, for example, without being "spotted" or sullied by the motivations common to the "world." -- James 1:27.

So what happened to JW Org then ? 

SM I was quoting Billy  when he said " Can we say, Christian sects that support the killing of others are reputable men?" 

I presume he means such as Catholics killing Catholics on opposite sides in World War 2. and things like that. 

As for me when you say  " you speak as though it is only happening to a sole religious faith alone when all religious faiths are effected, "

I have told you many times, my only interest is in the Jehovah's Witnesses Organisation, no other religion interests me. 

Billy made a good point that JW's do not go to war, as many other religions do. So in that way the JW's stand out as different because they take a firm stand for God by not going to war.

SM you said concerning Child Abuse , " it does not derail them, nor will it derail others."   Nor has it derailed me.  I'm just taking time looking for true direction. 

Hence when you ask me why I'm not out preaching the Good News, it is because I'm going through a recovery period and I'm looking for truth from God through Jesus Christ. How can i preach or teach others when i don't have true direction myself. That would make me as much as a hypocrite as the GB of the JW Org.  I would be giving false information to others just as JW's do. 

36 minutes ago, Judith Sweeney said:

Give it a rest, man.   Again....WHEW!    

You don't have to read it, Walk on 

14 hours ago, Judith Sweeney said:

  I know this is the Truth....i am not hurt.   I see these wonderful posts that are based on logic...from others, not you.  Your heart is seared...move on.   Bottom Line.     "England swings like a pendulum do"        Pray about this....You have been jaded by Satan...the "Father of the...what??? Yes.....the Lie.   And You bought it.    I feel sorry for you, John.     

 

Don't feel sorry for me Judith. Feel sorry for those that are too frightened to question the GB and the Elders and the whole JW 'set of man made rules'.

I am not anti JW Org, though of course it looks that way. I am anti GB and very disappointed with Elders that just act as puppets because they don't want to lose their positions. 

As with Hitler who could not have done the 'damage' that he did on his own, so it is with the GB, they could not have ruined so many people's lives on their own. Hence the Elders are to blame as well. 

3 minutes ago, Judith Sweeney said:

 No offense to anyone, per se...but, what I am seeing from John Butler is attention seeking and spreading of Toxicity.     Bottom line.   I mean, this topic is just being mulled over again and again to the point of redundancy.    Whew!   

Thank you, you have proved my point exactly. If you scroll up to an hour ago you will see that i said 'if i repeat myself then someone will moan about it' and rightly so. I agree with you. But, different people are asking me to defend my position and my comments, so am I supposed to say no ? 

What you are actually seeing is what you don't want to see, that is, truth....  Sorry if it hurts you. 

But it's 11pm here in beautiful Devon, England, so I'm off to bed. Good night.

Firstly SM it was Billy i was quoting when i said 'sects'. It was also Billy I was quoting when I said There has to be a distinction'.

But it seems Billy is ok with the idea when it suits him. Such as when Billy says " Can we say, Christian sects that support the killing of others are reputable men?" 

Again I quote Billy : " There needs to be a distinction, otherwise, we’d be no better...... "

But Billy, (and SM it seems), does not want to accept this need for distinction when it concerns Child Abuse. The JW org is as much in the bad news for Child Abuse as the Catholic church and others, so there is no distinction. 

However in the case of the JW Org, who promote God's name Jehovah, they are now bringing shame on that name and on God Himself. 

Plus, and I'm sure many do not think of this, they are endangering the lives of the congregants by not informing them of the increased danger of assault, either verbally or physically due to the public awareness of the Child Abuse scandal. There are such people in the world around us that do not think twice about assault and I feel the congregants should be warned and no secrets kept. 

There having been a murder in the Kingdom Hall of what was my local congregation, I'm more aware of the danger now.  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-42027285

⁶  Jesus said to him: “I am the wayf and the truthgand the life.h No one comes to the Father except through me.

Anyone that serves God properly through Jesus Christ is a follower of truth, because Jesus is the truth. 

But many JW's use the expression 'in the truth' to mean being part of the organisation, not as belonging to God through Christ.

 Quote : "Does this not apply to everyone, who follows in Jesus footsteps?"  So does a person have to be a JW then ?

Can we say, Christian sects that support hiding Child Abuse / Pedophilia in their organisation are reputable men ?  That accounts for a large percentage too. Should honest Christians follow suit?

5 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

What real honest proof can be provided that they are not? If Jesus is the truth, and he himself invoked it and passed it to the apostles which in turned urged people to find reputable men to continue Christ teachings, then what is faith for the faithless.

 

I think I've given many reasons to show that the GB are not guided by holy spirit. If I repeat myself some on here moan at me for being repetitive. 

It's nice to see that you say Jesus is the Truth.   Many JW's say they are 'in the truth', but they mean they are in the JW Org. As you have said Jesus in the Truth, not the JW org. 

As for the 'reputable men' where are they ? Not the GB of the JW Org, nor the puppet elders. 

If I read it right this man lost half of his business because he was disfellowshipped. 

Um, being disfellowshipped for drunkenness i can understand, but I presume the JW's that stopped dealing with him in business didn't have contracts to adhere to. 

Best not put all your eggs in one basket then. Probably best to do business dealings in the world that we should be no part of. 

Obviously I know nothing of this case, but it does seem a shame that he has lost so much because of the judgements of men. 

1 minute ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

You have redeemed yourself my son for your past transgression of being part of this world “Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me” (criticism) even if it means upsetting EVERYONE!

 

Too bad, allensmith34 is not around to see what the parrot already knows. Who’s who? This is why the GB are guided by God’s holy spirit instead of being guided by man’s earthly news. ?

 

What real honest proof do you have that the GB are guided by holy Spirit ? 

17 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Your comment makes no sense whatsoever.

You know exactly what i mean Tom.

You wrote : "Now, there is nothing significant that enters the meeting content without the express approval of Governing Body members," 

My point was that the GB are only men and therefore the content of the meetings being approved by men means nothing. It's not as if those GB members have any special link to God. So meeting content is just men talking to men, to decide what they will tell the congregants this time and next time etc. It is funny how they have to keep coming up with things for each meeting and each magazine.  

11 minutes ago, John Houston said:

Why would you think that way? When the Israelites though divided from the Levites did have the Law read to them. And then also to have understanding as it was read. So why not we of the earthly hope not understand as the anointed what the scriptures teach? They are as imperfect as I am, right? Still in need of the ransom as I am, correct? The only difference from us they have an office of responsibility in another plane of existence than mine. Yet they and us still honor and worship the same Father. Both in subjection to Him, not one higher than the other. Being immortal is great, but for now we are the same. And we eat from the same table prepared by Jehovah through Christ Jesus. Remember? Not two tables!

You obviously didn't bother to meditate on what I've written otherwise you would understand it . 

The Anointed (all of them in my opinion not just those 8 ) are in union with Christ, as Paul wrote. Therefore they are given better, fuller understanding of scripture. It is their job as the 'faithful and discreet slave', to feed the 'domestics' / earthly class with spiritual information. 

The Christian Greek scriptures are addressed to them, not to the earthly class. The Anointed are SONS of God

The earthly class are CHILDREN of God. There is a difference.

I think the Anointed  'have an office of responsibility' to feed the Earthly class at that table you mentioned. Giving the pure spiritual food at the proper time. 

Hence it is very important to know that we get the food from the REAL Anointed ones, so that we know it's pure spiritual food. 

Quote : To teach someone the Word of God we must do as Paul had done, get on their level, for you already have a common God with Muslims, that God is our Father and Jesus is his Son.

However I thought that Muslims didn't believe in God having a son.

Again quote : It is not about being happy with a faith, it is about not kicking a fellowman when he is down.

SM You seem quite happy to 'correct' anyone on here that you find giving false information.  Therefore is it not right for a Christian to tell a Muslim that they are serving God incorrectly ?

And if Muslims do not believe that Jesus Christ came from God, and was born as perfect man, so that he could die a perfect man and fulfill the Mosaic Law and lead us to everlasting life, then Muslims do not have the truth from God do they ?  

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I suspect @admin wants nothing to do with this and is sorry he ever stuck his toe in the water. He turns over everything of religious bent to his assistant @The Librarian, who does the best she can. (the old hen)

@James Thomas Rook Jr. is another thing entirely. He never saw a fight he did not like and I half-imagine that he would apply himself to learn Portuguese if need be just so he can go there are argue with you.

Well on here it is sooo easy to just click 'translate' and there you have it, Portuguese to English. 

It's more difficult to translate American English to English English though  

21 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Okay, serious again. Back to work.

The inclusion of 2 Samuel 16:5-13 in the midweek meeting is telling, in my view. It was particularly so since that same meeting, in the 'Book Study' portion, discussed Matthew 11, where Jesus states that they criticize you no matter what you do, like children, so the best recourse is to go full speed ahead and let 'wisdom be proved righteous by its works.'

The GB doesn't make specific statements regarding accusations, even when some prove true and the media shouts them to the high heavens. They do a Matthew 11, or a Psalm 34:18, or a Luke 9:62. They don't play the game of responding to outside reports. Some of them are true. Some of them are untrue. Some of them are partially true. If they weigh in on each one it not only focuses the spotlight on the greater world's information channel, but it leaves them time to do anything else.

Nonetheless, by including the 2 Samuel verses, it is clear their what their attitude is, and it is so far from 'arrogant' that anyone charging it ought to have his or her head examined. In those verses, David strays from familiar turf. Shimei confronts him from afar. He curses him, calling him 'blood-guilty,' 'good-for-nothing,' and throws stones at him. David's man wants to take his head off, but David says: 'Well, he has a point.'

No, he doesn't say that literally, but he comes pretty close. Whatever Shimei thinks, he came by his viewpoint through his interpretation of things that actually transpired, and David says, in effect, 'Well, if Jehovah permits him to abuse me like this, who am I to say he cannot do it?' It is incredible humility on his part. 

He says exactly: "Here my own son, who has come forth out of my own inward parts, is looking for my soul, and how much more [this man.] Let him alone that he may call down evil" and let Jehovah figure it out, however he will. 

With that David and his men kept going on in the road, while Shimei was walking on the side of the mountain, walking abreast of him that he might call down evil; and he kept throwing stones while abreast of him, and he threw a lot of dust.

Now, there is nothing significant that enters the meeting content without the express approval of Governing Body members, as they serve on various committees. There is no way they that cannot be putting themselves in the place of David. Whatever may be gleaned from this, one thing that cannot be missed is that they are the most self-effacing men on earth. 

 

 

 

I'm English and have no idea how American law works, or doesn't work. In fact i don't even know how UK law works or doesn't.

A few years ago, just before the Jimmy Savile scandal, I requested information about my time in 'Care' in the Children's Home.  Using the Data Protection Act i managed to get pages of info about my horrible time in 'care'. However most of it had been redacted, to the point where one page was just black. 

My next aim was to use the Freedom of Information Act to get information about the people that had worked in that 'Home' during the time i was there.  Oh dear, it was almost impossible. The procedure that i would have had to go through would have made it pointless,  because i could only read it in their files office, not copy it.

When the Jimmy Savile scandal started i stopped making enquiries as I realised i would be seen as just jumping on a 'sexual abuse' bandwagon. 

The Law of the land favours people with position and power.  It is not generally good for the 'working classes'. 

However it would be really good if these victims get justice, and yes, get compensation directly from the abuser. 

But Muhammad was a false prophet anyway and Islam is way off line.

Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law and was the last prophet ever needed in that sense.  Jesus was resurrected as the most important spirit person (apart from God himself) and returned to Heaven. And it is only through Jesus that we can receive everlasting life from God. 

Almighty God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the 66 Books of the Holy Scriptures (in the hands of the anointed) are all that is needed for true direction. 

It is impossible to please God by sitting on the fence and believing that 'all roads lead to God'. 

If you are 'happy' with the religion of Islam then you cannot be serving God properly.  

Well 7 of the 8 GB are American, and 7 of the 8 GB are white. 

As for how each of us see Jesus in our hearts and minds, well I would think we see him in a very positive way, so colour doesn't matter. 

But it doesn't show much 'guidance from God' does it, if the GB have always pictured Jesus and His followers as white ? 

Well each to their own but i still maintain that the Scriptures were written for the Anointed only, so therefore we have two problems :-

1. We need to know for sure exactly who the Anointed are. The 'Sons' of God as mentioned in Galatians 3 v 26 -29.

²⁶  You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus. ²⁷  For all of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ²⁸  There is neither Jew nor Greek,i there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus. ²⁹  Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s offspring, heirs with reference to a promise.

And Galatians 4 v 6 & 7 

 Now because you are sons, God has sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, and it cries out:“Abba, Father!” ⁷  So you are no longer a slave but a son; and if a son, then you are also an heir through God.

That of it's own i think proves Galatians was written by one of the anointed (Paul) and to the others of the anointed. It was not written to 'us' of the Earthly class.....  

2. Personal Bible study even through prayer, if we are of the Earthly class, may not give us true understanding, because it was written for the Anointed ones only. 

Remembering that Jesus said, that although he spoke to the complete gatherings of Israelites on many occasions, only a few were given the gift of the holy spirit to understand the true meanings of Jesus' words.  

So even if every person (apart from the Anointed) in every nation read God's word for five hours a day, it does not mean any of them would gain a true knowledge or a true understanding of God and His purpose. 

And if people listen to a 'false slave class' 'non anointed class' then people will only get false information, not truth. 

On 10/14/2018 at 10:28 PM, admin said:

He is according to Pope Francis...

i know a lot of members on here are religious and I saw this in the bookstore today 

As God is outside of time as we know it then He has no age. 

I presume He is in a different dimension which may have a different way of measuring time, or that time is not relevant other than to God's dealings with humans here on this earth.  

There are scriptures that say from God's viewpoint  'a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years are as one day'' So it would seem as if God is not bothered with time as we see it.  

' 

²⁶  For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth,b there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left,c ²⁷  but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a burning indignation that is going to consume those in opposition.

My personal opinion is that the whole of the scriptures were written for the anointed class only.

Therefore those of the anointed would have that special relationship with God. So the Hebrew scripture above would have very serious meaning. Why ? 

Because every one of the anointed would have RECEIVED THE ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. 

Whereas i do not believe that we, the earthly class, have the capability of 'receiving the accurate knowledge of the truth'  in such a special way. 

Jesus said (recorded at  John 10 v 16)

 “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold;n those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.

He must have been talking to the anointed about the earthly class. Calling us 'other sheep' 

There are other scriptures that make me believe that the Holy writings were meant for the anointed only. 

Zechariah 8 v 23

²³  “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nationsc will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe* of a Jew,* saying: “We want to go with you,d for we have heard that God is with you people.”’

This scripture is obviously talking about a 'spiritual Jew', an anointed one, not a physical Jew. And look it does not say 'only 8 of them', it seems to include all of them. All anointed people are 'spiritual Jews' surely ?

So now, if the resurrection is so dependant on our 'way of living' after receiving 'accurate knowledge of the truth', then even more so, is it of the greatest importance to be taught the 'accurate knowledge of the truth', in a truthful way, and by those chosen by God (the anointed), not those chosen by men. 

Hence we need to be sure who are THE ANOINTED OF GOD. 

6 hours ago, The Librarian said:

No pressure then ? No dictatorship then ? No lording it over the congregation ? 

BUT, No allowing each person to be an individual.   

I finished school at 15 years old. I left the 'other' establishment that gave me orders and controlled my life when i was 16½.

I will not be dictated to by men. And in honesty neither will most JW's. 

People dedicate their lives to GOD, not the Org or the GB. 

2 hours ago, Querotevernoparaiso said:

DO YOU EVEN THINK THAT ... 

Adam and Eve will be resurrected, for example:

the inhabitants of Sodom, Gomorra .... 

the Pharisees who rejected Jesus and the teachings of the apostles ...

as well as ... those early Christians who apostatized by rejecting their teachings (equal to today's Christians) 

DO YOU THINK THAT YOU HAVE A LOGIC THEY HAVE A SECOND CHANCE? 

So when Jesus said "Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing"  

Who was Jesus asking God to forgive. Was it the Romans ? Was it the Israelites that shouted for him to be put to death ? 

Was it the criminals either side of him ? Who ?

On 10/14/2018 at 8:11 PM, Jack Ryan said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildlife_of_Madagascar

I love the way they throw around these massive figures such as, " the island has been isolated for about 88 million years" and

"around 135 million years ago".   Please describe in great detail how they get these figures. Thank you. 

⁹  “You must pray, then, this way:“‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth.

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.10Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 

Depending on which Bible you chose, but basically it say the same thing. I think this shows what we would look forward to if we serve God properly. I for my part have no interest in going to heaven. 

And as S.M. says, God's original purpose was for mankind to live here on this planet Earth and that purpose will be fulfilled.