JOHN BUTLER

Well if somebody decides, in their wisdom, to make a topic about ME and why they THINK I left the Org.

And then they or others say that I'm mentally unbalanced etc. 

Perhaps, just like the GB of JW Org, they bring things on themselves. 

All I was doing was commenting on a previous comment of Anna's which is here on this topic.

But of course Anna and others are allowed to mention the Child Abuse freely, but me, oh no.

Well, Jesus was hated for telling the truth about others, wasn't he ? 

And the scriptures tell us to pick up our 'cross / torture stake' and follow Jesus. It isn't supposed to be easy being honest and truthful. 

There is so much I could say to Anna but I'd only get 'shot' for it. 

Admin close this topic if you wish. Have a good day y'all.  

ANNA says "WT has NEVER shielded or protected known perpetrators. The GB have not mishandled cases of child abuse, the elders have.." 

Did the GB and or it's Legal Departments  (for W/t and for JW Org)  refuse to hand over the documents in America. 

I believe they admitted having such documents which relate to twenty years worth of Child Abuse accusations.

Is it then true that the Legal dept of one (either W/t or JW Org) wrote a letter to the other asking for the documents, and the other Legal dept wrote back saying they would not hand them over. When in fact the GB rule over both and could have given orders for the documents to be handed over directly. 

That is why the courts became annoyed because the GB were deliberately wasting time. 

If all the info had been passed to police at the time each event happened, instead of storing it all up in 'secret' for twenty years, then the situation would never have taken place, and the lives of some people would not have been ruined because they would not have become victims of abuse.... 

To use the excuse of whether the Pedophiles were KNOWN PERPETRATORS, is very poor. Because it was just so easy to say that the victims didn't have two witnesses. 

1 hour ago, sami said:

@JOHN BUTLER 

WHO REALLY IS THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE AND HOW CAN THEY BE IDENTIFIED?

In Ezekiel chapter 47 we begin to see an expanded vision of  Revelation, chapter 22. Again there is a “river” of water of truth being channeled to the earth out from Jehovah’s spiritual temple. The waters begin to flow through the channel of the “slave” class from their restoration in 1919. This “river” is described as going eastward, in the direction of greater light, signifying that the Society’s publications of truth would be progressing in the light of truth as the years advanced after 1919. Ezekiel makes a periodic survey, every thousand cubits, of the increasing depths of this river, which first was ankle deep, then up to the knees, and further up to the loins, and finally the river was so deep that one had to swim if he wished to cross it.—Ezek. 47:1-5.

So in the latter days of fulfillment a periodic survey of every three years shows a steady increasing in the spiritual depth and clarity of the published waters of truth by the Watch Tower Society.

From whom then, have these waters of truth flowed? Who has brought to light the false teachings of an immortal soul or hellfire and the trinity doctrine or all good people go to heaven?  From whom did we learn of God's kingdom and the earth becoming a paradise and a resurrection would take place here on earth?

What organization brought to light the history of the pagan celebrations of Christmas, Easter, Birthdays, Samhain (halloween)  purgatory, limbo etc. etc.?

So then, who is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics to give them their food at the proper time? The slave and the domestics are the same persons, only from different viewpoints. Under the term “slave” Christ’s anointed followers of today are viewed as a class, a composite slave or composite servant. God himself so interprets matters: “Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen.” (Isa. 43:10, AS) Note that many witnesses are called one servant. Under the term “domestics” those making up the slave class are viewed as individuals. They are spoken of as “body of attendants” at Luke 12:42 (NW). Murdock’s translation from the Syriac agrees in using “domestics” at Matthew 24:45, and another translation from the Syriac, by A. S. Lewis, renders it “companions”, that is, companion slaves. They are domestic slaves in the household of God and, as a united class or society, are termed “the faithful and discreet slave”. Similarly, when a number of domestics turn wicked and start to beat their fellow slaves these evildoers become the foretold “evil slave” class.—Matt. 24:48-51, NW.

 

 Matthew 24:45-51 shows the service privileges granted to the faithful ones as a class and the punishment meted out to the unfaithful ones as a class. Matthew 25:14-30 shows the Lord’s dealing with faithful and unfaithful slaves as individuals. As individuals each one must strive to measure up to the Master’s requirements. United as a faithful company of slaves they comprise a visible theocratic organization and in Jesus’ illustration here under discussion are pictured as a “faithful and discreet slave”, and this composite slave class must see to it that it provides properly for all its individual members, the domestics. Prior to the coming of the Master, Christ Jesus, it must be providing for all its members “their food at the proper time”. It must also be noted that God does not have several discreet-slave classes, several theocratic organizations among which the work is divided. “Does Christ exist divided?” No! It is “one body”.—1 Cor. 1:13; 12:12, 13

 

“Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics to give them their food at the proper time?” In 1878, forty years before the Lord’s coming to the temple for judgment, there was a class of sincere consecrated Christians that had broken away from the hierarchic and clergy organizations and who sought to get back to true Christianity, as practiced by early Christians before the grievous wolves ravished the flock after the death of the apostles. They launched a campaign to restore the fundamental truths for the spiritually hungry to feed upon, to replace the pagan doctrines that had been adopted by apostate Christendom. It was the proper time for such spiritual food, to prepare the way before Christ’s coming for judgment at the temple. (Mal. 3:1; 4:5, 6) This group of faithful students began publication of The Watchtower, then called “Zion’s Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence”, and in the first issue, July 1879, its announced purpose was to provide “meat in due season” to the “little flock”. The facts show that it did this from 1879 on. In 1884 they formed a legal corporation to represent in a business or legal way the society of witnesses or ministers. Down to this day the legal corporation, the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, has been used as an agency to publish for and direct and unify the preaching activities of the society of witnesses overspreading the earth. When Christ came for judgment in 1918 he found some associated with this group that thought the Lord had delayed his coming and they were oppressing their fellow slaves in Christ. These were cast off as the “evil slave” class. Those faithfully serving God were identified as the “faithful and discreet slave” class.

Oh i didn't know Ezekiel mentioned 1919 in the writings ?

I thought I'd just leave this here :-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Tower_Society_unfulfilled_predictions

And the GB say only they, that is those 8 men, are the 'Faithful and discreet slave ' They say that other anointed ones are not the 'faithful ... slave'.

The GB even say that some, who say they are anointed, are mentally ill. 

Don't you understand that 'truth' has not advanced through these men ?  Their predictions have not happened. 

It's not God's word that is wrong, it is these 8 men that do not have God's holy spirit to guide them. 

And before you say that the JW Org has grown so much, well so has Muslim related terrorism and other false religions. 

12 minutes ago, sami said:

@JOHN BUTLER I'm sure anyone can find a scripture to suit their own needs. 

sami  - Why have you not done that then? I'd like to see that scripture that says to wear clothing where your private parts protrude whether upper body or lower body.

@JOHN BUTLEROne other point on the clothing of brothers and sisters.  Assemblies and conventions are where the young ones / single ones go to find a marriage mate. Well they are not supposed to be looking 'in the world', so it has to be at the conventions. Not everyone wants someone from their own congregation. 

Hence the young and single want to look like young and single and who can blame them. Just because the GB are old frumps doesn't mean everyone has to be... And just because you don't like something doesn't mean everyone has to dislike it.

 

sami - I wonder how people attracted the opposite gender before the mass production of obscenely designed clothing? Could be Christian personality and spirituality would and has attracted the special person one would want to spend their lives with, HUH!!

 

 

You don't think that there has always been attractive clothing for people to wear then?

You don't know that people used to make their own before mass production ?

But you sound like a frump or an Elder anyway, so you probably don't understand. 

I said the young and singe wanted to look young and single, I didn't say obscene. 

So come on then roll out the scripture that says a Brother has to wear a suit and tie and the trousers must be baggy. .

And the scripture that says a woman cannot wear properly made trousers designed for ladies. 

And then the scripture that says a women must wear a dress that comes down to her ankles and up to her neck. Oh a Burka maybe ?

You seem to have all the answers, let's hear them with scriptures of course.

48 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

I am above no one, I merely accept truth, and solid facts regarding the information at hand, for we can take up all the knowledge in the world, but we are still slaves for what is true. Plus if you noticed, I have been encouraging you to learn and apply reason, for if a fellow man gives such criticism, best to take it when said empiricism can make you improve.

I like this verse, and a good person I know who goes by the name Soulja of God, he likes this verse so much as such to make it the very basis regarding coverage of worldwide events, some of which is most likely unknown to all of you here maybe.

You should be clever with anyone and since we are on topic of forum/social media, everything and anything you say has to be truth and of the truth, be it of something factual and or biblical, and you speak of it regardless of who is professing errors, something to which I hold strong conviction to.

At times when being knowledge of something, you will be met with hatred and yes, even trolls, you will have those who will even persecute you not solely on your faith, but of the color of your skin and I get that a lot, and this is the same fate the young children who express their stories of whom shared with me, and to those younger than them, also face, some of us, if not all, can relate, for hatred can stem even in the online/internet space.

The very reason I do not agree with you on what I posed in question, for good intent can come about tools that are in use to spread information while we defend what is true when those in opposition speak and do things of bad intent, some of them coming from emotional and opinion based views that result in negative action and or harm to others.

As for the last bit, the context of the passage is clear: Pontius Pilate, in question, is of the what the truth is in general, in no connection to what truth Jesus is speaking about, hence previous verse. Furthermore, Pilate asked a rhetorical question, in addition, he didn't even wait around for an answer. The very reason it why we can call Pilate the one who is jesting, someone who is obviously making a mockery of the Christ.

He is also the one to agree to condemn Jesus to crucifixion, after the Jewish leaders professed to him that Jesus a clear and present threat to Roman occupation through his claim to the throne of King David as King of Israel in the royal line of David.

Just like the situation with Pilate and Jesus, as well as the Jewish leader, even today such examples can be seen and people, who stand as such, just as Jesus was, are persecuted and made a mockery of, even on the Internet, hence, forums and social media.

What is truth? Should I speak the truth some will accept it, others will hate you and or become angered by said truth, but truly I say to ye, the truth sets you free, and at the same time, for some the truth does indeed hurt.

Those for the truth will continue to speak while others will simply speak in riddles and lie and or make false claims and accusations - anywhere and everywhere on the internet.

Those who are true to themselves will stand up and speak.

I would continue to converse with you about 'truth' but then I would probably be going off topic as this topic is about Forums  vs Social Media.  

9 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

This is true, but a forum is still listed under anything and everything social media. Anyone can go on the internet and say that they are Batman, they can lie about their age and or background, they can identify themselves that they are a Toaster with strict conviction.

Indeed, and even lies can be believed as truths as well as conspiracy, thus being used against those they target and or deem as a, in their eyes, a threat, other times for ill intent and or an attempt to become viral in some cases, of which there are many, many examples of.

I rather you not twist my words, I stated that regarding this response: And lets not pretend that any JW doesn't have some outside interest.

The very reason it was the last one in my response, to which I even concluded by saying: Whatever decision one makes with his or her time they will answer for that, mainly if their intent is of bad taste, regardless of who you are.

So I ask you, Butler, what did you not get in what I have stated in regards to my response to you so I can make it even more detailed and clear?

And there is a reason as to why I use the Storm Trooper image and what I have been called by the late young one who loved Storm Troopers, the very reason I maintain this avatar. I am actually an islander, for my own culture and background is entrenched in the islands itself, I am refereed to as a Biblical Storm Trooper because of my Biblical studies and this young one knowing how I am seeking all kinds of knowledge regarding God, I am referred to as such, hence his word sits in my memory and very soon I will see this young one again when he is rearrested by the Christ by means of God.

The name Space Merchant comes from short stories my mother made when she was a child, and I figured, the name was not taken here so I reside with it.

Read and understand what I stated before you yield about empty assumptions or ask for better clarification if you are still lost, for if you had noticed I was being very specific on a portion of what you said.

And when they hear his voice and they come out of their tombs and such ones being reunited with lost loved ones, this will be among the many things I will speak to the young one of what I had endured before the conclusion of the end times.

That being said, mainly in regards to my own experiences and history, I am not one to pretend things, therefore, I hold conviction to what I say and to what I myself make note of and research, especially when it comes to the Bible.

Everyone can say or do things on social media, but there are those who are true to themselves and do not kid, they do not lie, they do not speak of conspiracy or yield upon something in terms of emotional and position based on mere opinions.

As for a forum, it is no different, for just like anything and everything on the internet, you have a mixed bag of persons all over the place. This also goes for the virtual space, i.e. those who are in the realm of online video games for some are true to themselves, thus not here to play pretend while others are lying to themselves and fool around, even those who reveal themselves to have very bad intent and causes such both verbally, and at times, physical should they meet the person.

You are very deep Space Merchant. Above my intelligence and my knowledge. 

However I like to think on this scripture where Jesus spoke to his heavenly Father :-

In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. (Luke 10 v 21) 

I don't try to be clever or to annoy anyone. I'm just me, sometimes happy sometimes sad. 

As for truth, which Roman was it said to Jesus, "What  is truth ?"  

11 hours ago, AveragePub said:

Really?  You need to go to a real KH.

Every Kingdom Hall is different. Every congregation is different.

Having moved around a bit here in England I've noticed the differences. 

When i was living in Bristol for instance some Brothers would come into meetings wearing a tie of the football team they supported. Each wearing different ties, so funny . No part of the world, um.  

16 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

The Bible speaks about modesty and such is followed by all persons with different backgrounds, cultures, etc. Not everyone who lives in Africa, or Span will be 100% identical to such ones like Americans in terms of food, clothing and or other.

The only people who take issue with such things are those who have the mentality of Yale University Students who are dubbed as Snowflakes.

Other than that the point made by Librarian is there, nothing really is notable unless you make it seem this way.

Well it seems the Governing Body like to talk about 'tight pants' 'homosexuality' and 'masterbation with a pillow'.

Um, a bit worrying i think. 

40 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Like I told you about 2 Corinthians 5:20 regarding substitute/supplicate as with the understanding of ambassadors,

https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/70398-2-corinthians-520-substitute-or-supplicate/?do=findComment&comment=108183

if the Strong's match up, there is no error and or problem. Once again you have proven yourself to be totally oblivious to the Greek Strong's, for last I checked Jehovah's Witnesses, as with other Christians follow both the Hebrew/Greek Strong's accordingly vs. those who do not, be it oblivious, ignorant and or dumbfounded to this fact, 1 Timothy 3:16 being an example whereas JWs are blamed for removing GOD/THEOS from the verse when in reality, other translations did the same because, wait for it, GOD/THEOS was never in the oldest source, something of which it was professed before, and one occasion I went off overboard, not going according to my updated notes on the matter, thus confusing myself, but in the end, the correction has been made.

Maintain your focus on Biblehub (https://biblehub.com/nas/john/21.htm) regarding verse 7 because if I use other sources with Strong's the evidence of being oblivious will stack up against you, so this will be very lite. Now, the word naked Or “lightly clad, poorly dressed, and or the wearing of only an under garment. In Greek, the word for this [naked] is gymnos/gumnos in actual Greek writing, it is γυμνός and it's Strong's number, in Greek, is 1131. This word has about 15 occurrences in Scripture and it means what the Strong's say: nakedness, poorly dressed, under garment only, again, Biblehub even points to you of where to find these occurrence, John 21:7 being one of them. Like I said in the last thread, you enjoy the use of Biblehub, use it properly, take a good look at the Strong's of a specific word and grasp it fully, otherwise you will be grilled for it. If this was CSE they would grill you thrice-fold, if this was Hyde Park, well, at this point it is like sending a man unarmed into the field of combat, therefore, understanding this information is crucial, for anyone can read the Bible and but to understand it, what the words mean and the context will show who knows their Bible and who does not, hence why I will respond here and tell you to, on your screen Mr. Butler, take time to read into the Strong's before you make a response like this.

Read, observe, meditate and apply: http://www.godrules.net/library/strongs2b/gre1131.htm | https://biblehub.com/greek/1131.htm | https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/dictionary/viewTopic.cfm?topic=IT0006261

As for the Jehovah's Witnesses, in their note and study they even state the following: naked: Or “lightly clad.” The Greek word gy·mnosʹ can have the meaning “lightly clad; in the undergarment only.”—Jas 2:15, ftn.; see study note on Mt 25:36.

That being said, to speak on Jehovah's Witnesses regarding John 21:7 is rather weak on your part, granted of as to why and where they adhere to in terms of Textual and Biblical Criticism and correct use of Strong's being at play here and since this can easily be seen by those who knows such this, can see that you are incorrect, thus being in the wrong.

And I said what I said because of what you said here: 

And

 

Hence the response.

Changed his clothing to look smart? As in smart what are you purposing here, Butler? There is no issue with someone having a change of clothing after doing some form of work, example would be working in a medical field where blood is on your work clothes, and so forth, so and so can either change into causal, a suit, what have you to go anywhere, some even choose not to change depending on the situation and or if their closing is not that messed up and or defiled.

This is another example of something you profess that is of your own and not of God, for what I see here is your brother made his decision to not retain clothing that is messed up, but rather go and change, so I do not see how this example pushes your resolve when you yourself revealed this is of your own opinion but never speak on what the Bible says.

As for anyone who puts their lives for the Missionary Work of the Good News Gospel and of the Messianic Age, such ones have to be modest while out and about doing this service, for Jesus himself was spoke of cleanness, as is spoken of in the Bible, so therefore, he making he decision to change his clothing, change out of his work clothes into something clean and presentable, is no issue at all.

So to say that is a Teaching of Men only reveals how wrong you are and basing something so minor on your own emotion and opinions, when you yourself stated you read the Bible, when the Bible speaks of cleanness about 45+ times and of being of modest appearance.

That being said, for that last part, in my eyes, a person who does the work of his hands is a show of someone who is hard working, mainly when you can see it on his or her hands and on their attire.

Learn what the word "Naked" is in both Greek and Hebrew, do not make the same mistake Srecko does when comparing an English Dictionary in an attempt to counter the the Strong's itself, hence the pother thread I linked and you being totally unaware of such and assuming the man, a Fisherman of all people, was totally naked, or as you said, in the nude, when the context defeats you before it was even presented.

I also suggest looking into the history of Fishing regarding those times and onward, people use to do the same method even to this day whereas they stick to the old and yet still working techniques.

I do not see why the rebuke when Jesus himself knows the job of Fishermen, let alone him speaking of the Parable of Drawing in the Net (Matthew 13:47–52).

Other than that the next time you want to explain something, do so without yielding upon your ever so obvious man understanding vs. biblical understanding, for if one is to understand what is included in the Traditions of Men, using Man's Understanding regarding a passage and or verse is an evident one, which can be seen displayed by you here- Mark 7:8 [1-9] (see Galatians 1:14, Colossians 2:8)

As for our JW counterparts, or you since you are formerly a JW, on this forum, even their own word speaks against you in this matter: Remember, the Pharisees of Jesus’ day were inclined to make big issues of minor matters, sometimes of infractions of rules based on human standards and not on the instructions or principles of God’s Word. By one-sidedly emphasizing minor things, they obscured the weightier things of God’s Word. (Mark 7:1-9, 14, 15, 20-23; Matt. 23:23)

Read more, and research - know the difference of what is leavened and unleavened (1 Corinthians 5:8) otherwise you start a battle and lost it before it even starts.

John 21:7 on Biblehub: https://biblehub.com/john/21-7.htm

Oh dear we get back to the same point i tell you every time. 

I'm only interested in what the JW Org and their Governing Body do and say. 

When the Governing Body put the word naked in that scripture they did not expect that every reader would do deep research to find out what naked means in Greek. Come on SM I think you are the one making mountains out of mole hills here. 

When the Governing Body say something they are saying it to 8 million baptised people and another 8 million Bible students. I don't think the GB expect them all to research each and every word they say and write. 

When the word naked in written in English in an English Bible, it means exactly that naked.  If they wanted to get the idea over that Peter was 'lightly clad', 'in his underwear' they would have written that. 

Enough said. 

14 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

If it is of the world, why are you using it, let alone why are you here or using the Internet? Unless you didn't mean to say such or otherwise. And as for Facebook, okay if used properly, but is it not of the world as you stated just now? Like I said time and time again, people with good intent and those with bad intent can use and or affiliate themselves with anything and or anyone, examples being surely you do not know about those on Facebook who in secret exchange information regarding child human trafficking and so forth or perhaps manipulators on that platform and or the very fact your every move is being monitored, etc.for not everyone uses Facebook properly, I myself do not use Facebook at all and speaking about Facebook I suggest you change your password and but a 2-step due to recent hacks of many users.

The same point I made to Srecko assume in his own cryptic message in his own word that the birds provide for him regarding internet access.

Social media is both a blessing and a curse, it can be used for good intent while for others bad intent. Being informed of something be it late and or at an expecting time does not define you as a hater and or troll. Haters are those who rally and entice hatred of a person and or group, to the point of mob mentality, examples being anyone who is of the same ethnic group of me can say all white Americans are evil, surely I do not believe that for I believe there is good people and among the good bad people, nor do I adhere to racism and discrimination even if it comes from blood and or friend or foe, etc.

Social media can spark conspiracy and even going as to the point to cloud information and or sources until research is made to find said truth in a bail of hay, examples like being aware of what Israel and US allies are doing that the general public does not know about, and or any action made to take out a person and or group of people and so forth.

No on is pretending anything, only you brought this up. Whatever decision one makes with his or her time they will answer for that, mainly if their intent is of bad taste, regardless of who you are.

Also read up on the behavior of trolls on the internet, it is important to know these things: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

As far as I know majority of trolls, in the religious space are Anti-Religious, little to no one who is religious is a troll for they are the ones defending themselves against trolls.

Admin said : With a forum, you can create your own personality unique for that forum. You don't need to reveal your real name, or photo.

My reply was : Um, so people can pretend to be someone else and tell lies and do all sorts of mischief 

You said : No one is pretending anything,

Um, your user name is : Space Merchant, Biblical Storm Trooper. With a picture of a Storm Trooper  

And you still say 'No one is pretending anything' ?

Wow, so you are a real Storm Trooper, fantastic. 

TTH seems to think i hate the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. I presume he reasons that because i find fault with them then i must hate them.

So, a question. Did Jesus hate the Pharisees ? 

Jesus certainly found fault with them and showed them up for what they were. 

Any thoughts ?

7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This exactly makes my point. This is pure emotion. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the passage you used to segue into it. It is nothing more than your unhinged hatred of the GB speaking. You suffered abuse in pre-Witness days such as does not afflict one in a thousand. The ‘upside’ is that you know how depraved humans can be. The downside is that you think they all are when child sexual abuse has occurred.

As reported on this thread or elsewhere (I’ll relocate it if I have to) two thirds of professionals REQUIRED BY LAW to report suspected abuse fail to do it. Are they all vile? Plainly, other factors are at work, but you can see only one.

 It is as stated before: You are too close to a particular tree to properly assess the forest. You were tied to a tree that was rotten. You think they all are.

I think we should get a few points straight.

The Child Abuse / Pedophilia problem within JW Org is NOT A SMALL ONE.

It is an Earthwide problem, not just 'a few' people. It has been going on within the JW Org for many years, 50 years in Australia it seems.

For at least 20 years the GB have been collecting accusations of Child Abuse in the USA. 

Many many many of the victims have said they were told NOT TO REPORT IT TO THE POLICE OR OUTSIDE AUTHORITIES.

Many of them have said they were not believed because of the TWO WITNESS RULE.

Jesus said, 'If anyone stumbles the least of these little one it would have better it they has a millstone tied around their neck and they were thrown into the sea'. Do you believe these words of Jesus ? 

We know about Child Abuse  / PEDOPHILIA in the JW Org in  : Australia, Canada, America, the Netherlands and the UK.

I have no info' of child abuse in other JW countries, but I would think it is happening everywhere.

If ten people come forward to tell of their abuse then probably 100 more have not come forward. So we have no way of knowing how many have been abused. So this silly idea of giving a percentage means nothing.

I am blaming the GB because they make the rules, not according to scripture but according to their own preference.

If only half of the accusations are true it is still too many.

As for comparing the JW Org and or GB to, 'professionals REQUIRED BY LAW to report', that's like comparing God's organisation to Satan's world. There should be no comparison. It does not matter what those so called 'professionals' do or do not do. If you believe the GB are the 'faithful slave' then even you should expect the GB to serve Jehovah properly. 

Serving Jehovah properly would mean taking care of 'widows and orphans' 'little ones' everyone within the Christian Congregation. And that would mean keeping the Org clean and free of Pedophiles. 

In my opinion that means that EVERY ACCUSATION OF CHILD ABUSE IN EVERY COUNTRY SHOULD BE REPORTED TO THE POLICE OR AUTHORITIES. And the GB should have handed over the 20 years worth of documents to the court whether it was 'the law or not'. 

But as i say, Collateral damage. Brothers, sisters, children. All destroyed just to keep the Org looking clean.

You keep pretending I'm over emotional, if it serves your purpose, if it keeps your conscience clear. 

I'll keep distrusting the Governing Body as I know clearly in my mind they are not the 'faithful slave' they are the 'wicked slave that says the master is delaying in coming'.   

9 hours ago, sami said:

@JOHN BUTLER "Traditions of men" are the designers of the couture of the day. Whatever a so called fashion house thinks will sell. Those are the traditions of men which have nothing to do with being modest but blatantly immodest.  Are the designers looking to please God or their pocket book?

There is a wide variety of styles and/or colors that can be chosen as long as the clothing is not revealing breasts or emphasizing genitalia. However, "traditions of men" do not follow those guidelines. The apostle councils "Obey your spiritual leaders, and what they say. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this with joy and not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit."

Acts 20:28 " Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed YOU overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own [Son].

I must emphasize that the door opens the same whether your going out or coming in. The world welcomes all those who desire to look as though they are wearing their baby brother's clothing. "Traditions" are waiting for you on the other side of the door.

The Governing Body is there to do oversight of Jehovah's organization, just as in the first century. If you can speak 930 languages, send out thousands of envoys into 240 lands - then feel free, no one is stopping you. If you can build Bethel homes and translation facilities, If you can care for disaster relief for millions then have at it.

But markedly, those who constantly find fault with the "Governing Body, The Slave" do not leave because they want to preserve their complaining behinds. They actually think that they will be preserved alive through the tribulation and that Jehovah has not already read their hearts. Free Will, The Choice is yours.

Jesus said the Pharisees followed the 'Traditions of Men'. Surely you know and understand that much ?

THE GB seem to have given themselves the title 'Faithful and discreet slave'. However there are many things that would prove otherwise. But that would be going off topic, which I constantly get told of about.

You have quoted scripture to show that the GB are the boss. However there are scriptures which tell the 'leaders' ' not to lord it over the congregation'. 

I'm sure anyone can find a scripture to suit their own needs. 

One other point on the clothing of brothers and sisters.  Assemblies and conventions are where the young ones / single ones go to find a marriage mate. Well they are not supposed to be looking 'in the world', so it has to be at the conventions. Not everyone wants someone from their own congregation. 

Hence the young and single want to look like young and single and who can blame them. Just because the GB are old frumps doesn't mean everyone has to be... And just because you don't like something doesn't mean everyone has to dislike it. 

As I've said before, Jesus said 'Remove the rafter from your own eye before trying to remove the straw from your brother's eye'. 

16 hours ago, The Librarian said:

@Jack Ryan  You are being unreasonable.

Try conforming to our higher JW standards and you too will be happy again too.

You will lose all desire to look fashionable. That is a worldly quality anyway.

What Jehovah wants from even beautiful women is to be of a quiet and mild spirit and to dress modestly. 

Are but who's choice of modesty ? Oh of course the GB's and the Elders.  

Maybe what Jehovah wants of every one is a bit of individuality.    

Are I've just noticed you say 'JW' standards, not God's standards. 

13 minutes ago, Jack Ryan said:

I think the Jews had / have a thing called 'Pikuach Nefesh, which related to 'life being at risk' and 'breaking the rules'.

And Jesus said "Which of you if your child or animal should fall into a well or pit on the Sabbath, would not pull them out ?" 

Basically saying the same as he once said "I want mercy not sacrifice" 

I don't think Jehovah meant us not to have blood when life is at risk. 

Once again, this proves to me that the GB are not 'the faithful and discreet slave'. OR, did God lie to them about the blood issue ?  And then later tell them the truth about it ? 

Come on folks think about it. Does God use these people and if so would God not make it perfectly clear what HE wants from them and  us ? 

15 minutes ago, Jack Ryan said:

That is fantastic and so so true. 

1 hour ago, The Librarian said:

Question sent in for me to post.

Agape!

 

When  i started studying, all those years ago, I was taught that each Creative day was 7,000 years long. And that God's 'rest day' would also be 7,000 years. The teaching being that humans would live for 6,000 years then Armageddon would come. Then the 1,000 year reign of Christ, then he would hand back everything to Jehovah. 

I think the end of the 6,000 years was 1975. but of course, no Armageddon. 

It seems now the teaching is that they have no idea how long a Creative Day was. It would seem logical then that they have no idea when Armageddon will come. But they have to keep frightening people to keep them in the JW Org. 

( So did God tell the 'Faithful Slave' lies then ? Or were they just telling the congregants lies ?) 

Even though I've left the Org i still believe Judgement Day will happen, as it's part of God's word.. The world is in so much mess and governments want to keep it that way. War is big business and keeps people in employment and under control. Immorality has sunken so much lower and in greater quantity. Over population, racism, hunger, floods, earthquakes, and so much more. And scientists crying about the end of this earth's life because of pollution, climate change, etc. Only God can bring things back to perfection. But no one has any idea when. 

1 hour ago, The Librarian said:

Question sent in for me to post.

Agape!

 

Are JW's against jeans ? Presume you mean the jeans that people wear on their lower half. 

Even when i was a JW I wore jeans and jean jackets. This is new to me.

5 minutes ago, The Librarian said:

Repost does not equal endorsement.

This Instagram poster is followed by over 10,000 JW's

Because as it seems the JW's don't think for themselves. 

10 minutes ago, Jack Ryan said:

Gene Smalley at a Circuit Assembly This Weekend

"Solomon had 60 queens and 80 concubines when he wrote Song of Solomon" I think Smalley said this like three times.

So anyways, "he wasn't supposed to be multiplying wives for himself according to the law" Gene kept saying. But "Jehovah used him anyway".

What was his point? How we can make mistakes and still be used by Jehovah.

Of course he had to name drop Fred Franz at one point, something about looking up the word paregoric in the dictionary.

At another point he wen off about the immune system and blood cells for about 10 minutes. Final 1 hour talk of the day.

Sounds like an excuse for the Child Abuse / Pedophilia situation in the JW Org. 'Oh the GB might make mistakes but God is still using them'.

Oh no, I don't think so. 

1 hour ago, sami said:

@James Thomas Rook Jr. I remember when I used to attend Catholic school and church, the girls had to wear head coverings and dresses, the hem of which had to be below the knees. The boys had to wear shirts, ties and slacks. It was called respect for where you were and standing before God in modesty. Then as the churches began to loose so many parishioners and the pews became empty, the hierarchy gave up the idea of modesty and decorum and now allows men and women to wear shorts, T shirts, flip flops, hair curlers and no head coverings.

I read an article, a few months back, where med students did a study taking swabs of chairs in public places, seats in theaters and on public transportation and various other public places and they found feces, blood, urine and other various bodily fluids on a mass scale. It may be cute and titillating to see a girl walking around and bending over while in her preferred attire, however, most people gag at what they may be exposing themselves to.

Lack of respect and lack of modesty for God and your fellow man is at the crux of the matter. Everyone has freedom, freewill to do what is within their purview as acceptable. But if one calls themselves a Witness of Jehovah, their metamorphosis must be complete as to Christian dress, grooming, behavior and as the apostle Paul admonishes at Romans 12: 2 "Do not copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. (WHY?)  Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect."

WE do not have to be exposed to a piece of cloth stretched across  someone's genitals to know he's a male, we do not have to be exposed to a thong and bare behind to know we are in the company of a female. We do not need hypocrites, with their pretend piety and lips dripping  death dealing venom, in our midst when there are hundreds of "come as YOU are and do what YOU want" religions available to them.

 

I agree with modesty but not with the 'traditions of men'. 

The suit and tie is from the world isn't it ? So when it suits the GB to follow the world then it's ok is it ? 

If people cannot see beyond clothing then they have poor judgement. 

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

 

Adam and Eve by Rubens.

 

Adam and Eve by Watchtower

 

Jew woman clothing

 

Jew male clothing

 

Jew family fashion

 

..... some casual style here

Yes one thing that I've always considered wrong (but who am i to judge) is that all men are supposed to dress in 'Western style fashion'. No not Wild west fashion. And at assemblies in Twickenham UK, on the last day of the assembly,  some overseas bros and sis are 'allowed' to walk around the 'arena' in their 'native costumes'. Why shouldn't people be allowed to wear the clothes they would normally wear in their own countries, as long as it's decent of course, all the time. 

2 hours ago, Jay Iza said:

Lol another reminder about grooming at todays watchtower... 

 

But is this God's rules or MAN'S ?

I really had to laugh at today's Watchtower study. Such hypocrisy.

I wonder if the congregations in Montana studied this today. 

Let's start from the beginning. 

We Belong To Jehovah. Sounds simple doesn't it ? But on baptism a person suddenly belongs to the JW Org, or so they think. I say this because a baptised person has to live by the GB's rules. 

Para 4, heading. We dedicate our lives to Jehovah. Don't forget that, because the Org thinks you dedicate your lives to them. The GB and it's Org think they have ownership of contact with God. 

Para 10 .... "These examples clearly establish that those who truly belong to Jehovah must firmly take their stand for righteousness and against wickedness". Well I did, I left the Org for a proper reason, taking a stand for righteousness. Oh but that's not what they mean is it ? They mean their view of righteousness not God's view.

Para 14, "... Because we belong to Jehovah we are admonished to 'reject ungodliness and worldly desires and to live with soundness of mind and righteousness and godly devotion amid this present system of things'.  Um, something wrong here. The Org hasn't quite followed this. Practice what you preach comes to mind. 

Para 15. "Our appreciation for Jehovah's special friendship is shown in how we treat fellow worshippers. They too belong to Jehovah. If we never lose sight of that fact, we will always treat our brothers and sisters with kindness and love". Yes, but oh dear, a lot of JW's including the GB have lost sight of that fact. 

Para 18. ... We take a firm stand against badness. And we love and respect our fellow worshippers, recognizing that they too belong to Jehovah".   Really ? When ? 

It also says in the same paragraph "We want people to see that we are 'blameless and innocent .... ' ". Not much hope of that now is there ?   

Come on folks, surely you can see the hypocrisy in it all ? 

I'll hint at someone's comment on another topic, where he referred to Hitler.  Hitler was one man. It took the whole of Germany to do what they did. Hitler couldn't have done it alone.

So it is with the JW Org. The Governing Body may make those wicked rules, but it takes the whole association of brothers to make the wickedness flow through the whole Earthly organisation. 

Hope you enjoyed your Watchtower study today. 

44 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Since the much-hyped penalty for not doing this was later thrown out by another court, it ought to be clear that it was not the law of the land. Rather, a certain court was exceeding its authority.

The Kavanaugh hearings also ought to have made clear that the lauded impartiality of the world’s justice system is but a bad joke. Law is not the issue. One’s interpretation of law is the issue and that is forged in emotion which is forged in one’s personal experience.

Your pre-Witness experience gives you knowledge of the depravity that humans can sink to. But it also makes you prone to see it everywhere.  It is rather like a Holocaust survivor seeing Hitler everywhere.

And from you viewpoint the victims of all the Child Abuse in the JW Org Earthwide are just 'Collateral damage'.  And as most of the GB are American they seem to have that attitude too.  Hide it, forget it, don't report it, call the victims liars, and keep on pretending the Org is clean. 

But as Luke 8 v 17 makes clear, it all is revealed in the end.