JOHN BUTLER

Or fear of being disfellowshipped and completely isolated from everyone you ever knew or trusted. 

slander /ˈslɑːndə/ noun LAW   1. the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation. "he is suing the TV company for slander"   Judith I think you will find it has been proven that these things happen, hence it is not slander but truth

slander /ˈslɑːndə/ noun LAW   1. the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation. "he is suing the TV company for slander"   Judith I think you will find it has been proven that these things happen, hence it is not slander but truth

@JW Insider "For many decades the entire anointed remnant was considered to be the "faithful and discreet slave" and this probably raised the question about why they weren't ever involved in doctrinal issues unless they were already part of the Writing Department or Service Department at Bethel. Now, as of 2011, this has changed and the GB claims to be the equivalent of the FDS, which tends to remove the question about why the rest of the anointed are not involved" .
@JW Insider "No one claims that God directly gives the GB the spiritual food they see fit to distribute" 
Wow, here we have something to work with. 
Let's think on this. All the Anointed were once seen as the 'Faithful and discreet slave'. However the GB, who are not directly guided by God, decided to demote the rest of the Anointed, and to Exalt themselves. 
Luke 14 v11 'For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted'. 
So we know that the rest of the Anointed humbled themselves when they were demoted, and we know that the GB exalted themselves by saying only they are the 'Faithful and discreet slave'. 
Now regarding true guidance from God. Jesus said to his Apostles, who are of course of the Anointed,  John 14 v 13 & 14.
Also, whatever you ask in my name, I will do this, so that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it.
Also, For everyone asking receives, and everyone seeking finds, and to everyone knocking, it will be opened.  Indeed, which father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will hand him a serpent instead of a fish?  (Luke 11 v 10 & 11)
Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will the Father in heaven give holy spirit to those asking him!” Luke 11 v 13.
So your GB that claim to be the 'Faithful and Discreet slave' should be able to ask God, through Jesus Christ, for Holy spirit, to be able to interpret scripture correctly. 
And your statement that "No one claims that God directly gives the GB the spiritual food they see fit to distribute" should be wrong.
However it can be clearly seen that the 'food' given is often wrong. Even to my first point on this comment, about who is really the 'Faithful and discreet slave'. And yet again in the 'clarifications' we have already spoken about. 
I have a theory, a bit far fetched i admit but :-
In one of my comments I said the GB should be removed and replaced. Then someone here said that no one was in a position to remove th GB. Now, perhaps the GB demoted the rest of the Anointed because the rest of the Anointed do have the right to remove the GB and replace them. After all, who can say that those 8 men are more important and should have more power than the rest of them. It may be God's plan in the near future to use the rest of the Anointed to remove the GB and to clean up the JW org. 
It's just a thought. 

Then there are unqualified Elders, that are puppets and told what to 'detect' and what not to. 

Agree with your explanations how more important, or if we can say also, only important thing is, what we are, who we are, what sort of person we are and want to be.
If it is so, and how almost all of us here agree with such view, i believe, then all such Corporative and  Organizational  preparing and sharing of so called spiritual food ( read WT publications and talks) is/are almost unnecessary, meaningless or redundant. Why? Because of never ending process of going beyond what is written, and striving to keep members in obedience to man (WT Corporation), not to God. 

ohh dear god....you talking as some subversive element.....Bible say how secular authority is "god's public servant". 
“Rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good.” - Romans
What sort of gospel you preaching? :)))) 

How very true your words are. The GB have to keep throwing crumbs to the sheep to keep the sheep happy. Even if the crumbs are false hopes. It is good that other people, such as yourself, can see  this too. 

i meant, better or worst Decision Maker :))

Double honor?? For what "hard work of teaching" dear Insider? For repeated wrong interpretations? For new "clarifications" that will come to be called "previous errors", "wrong expectations" and other phrases in WT terminology?  :))  
Every, each time this "new clarification" make JW members to have, not new clarification, but NEW HOPE, because "this time this must be true" ..in mind (read fantasy) of person only. :))

Very interesting information which confirms another of my feelings. The GB are not the faithful slave class.
I do love your use of the word 'clarifications', when in fact you mean, change of meanings. 
And i will repeat my question here, If the GB are the 'Faithful and discreet slave' why do they not get it right first time ?
Surely God does not give them false information ?  
A faithful and discreet slave would make sure the food he fed the domestics was good pure food, otherwise the Master would not be happy if the slave fed poison to his domestics and killed them spiritually, or at least stumbled them in many cases.

Very interesting, thank you. Although I will disagree with you on some points such as :-
'It also helps us build a Christian character that can keep us free from the world's immorality, '  That hasn't worked in a lot of cases has it ? 
'I still associate and preach regularly'. This is one of the things I could not continue to do because the point of preaching is not only to teach others about God, but to bring people into the congregation. I no longer felt  that the congregation was a safe place to bring people into, especially young children. 
'I don't consider myself to be as "obedient and loyal" a Witness as others, '. I liked this bit, that was how I survived as long as I did in the Org, by not being as obedient as others were...  
'The problems certainly do not outweigh the good'. Now that depends if you are a Victim of one of those problems or just a bystander. 
This comes back to my point about collateral damage. Brothers and sisters that are not Victims do not understand nor do they even want to know. 
'It's much easier to be a Christian with a loving brotherhood of Christians around us, related to us in the faith'.  Um, that depends upon the weight that the Org puts on people's shoulders. And it depends on the type of Elders you have too. Unfortunately some Elders do lord it over the congregation and make life miserable for the congregants. 
 'It's not specifically the doctrines', no because they change the meanings so often ... 
'There are hundreds of people in our brotherhood whom I love dearly, and I could not associate with them or do things for them if I chose to leave'
This is an important point. Because people build their lives around the JW Org. It becomes a social thing as much as a way of serving God. So if a person, such as myself, choses to leave, then they are deliberately cut off, not just from the religious aspect, but from a complete social circle of people. Shunned, isolated, ignored. 
I was lucky (maybe should not use the word lucky) that i became friends with a business man from London that owns a large seme-derelict mansion close to where i live. So I've spent most of this year doing unpaid work for him, clearing his mansion of furniture and car parts. It came about because of my wife's interest in old buildings and photography. So my wife and I have been happy to have the keys to a mansion and be able to go there any time we want. Without this interest and work i may have gone crazy. I will add i didn't do the work for the owner, i did it for my wife, so that she could go there as and when, and I did it for the mansion itself to give it back some dignity. It's been great therapy.  

Well it seems as if Billy the Kid doesn't believe such things, nor True tom. 
As for why I left and you didn't, different personalities etc, yes probably. And a lot to do with the fact that i got fed up with being told to be 'humble' about everything, which doesn't actually mean be humble it means shut up and do as you are told. 
As for restarting our conversation, most people here are fed up with hearing from me. Understandable I suppose as truth hurts when it is unpleasant..  
I know you didn't start it Anna, nor would you have I'm sure.  
I suppose being turned away from a Kingdom Hall once (Reading my hometown),  being told I couldn't get baptised when i was ready, then being told when to get baptised when i wasn't ready, being in a congregation where an Elder commited suicide (Bristol ), having the teachings I'd been taught at first changed to different teachings, seeing another Elder disfellowshipped and police involved, being threatened with being disfellowshipped for slander, and then a brother being murdered in 'our' Kingdom Hall, then all this Child Abuse problem Earthwide, well it all added up. But up until the time I found out about the Child Abuse problem, i was being humble, doing as I was told, I was hanging in there....  
The JW Org has been no pleasure to me, not because of opposition from outside, but because of what i've seen from inside. 

@JOHN BUTLER here is a recent case from the UK.  It seem that the authorities were the ones that delayed. This is a good example of the fact that reporting to authorities does not automatically assure success. You can read the whole article here:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/devious-righteous-christian-raped-two-15274172
An "arrogant" Jehovah's Witness subjected two girls under the age of 13 to years of systematic assaults and rapes.
Roy Collins, 80, was branded as "devious, righteous and arrogant" by a judge at Swansea Crown Court.
He had spent a decade systematically grooming, abusing and raping the two girls.
At one point during his campaign of abuse, one of their mothers burst into the Jehovah's Witness church in Swansea and publicly accused him of being a paedophile only to receive a letter from his solicitors warning her not to harass him.
Carline Rees QC, for the prosecution, read out impact statements from the two victims.
One said she had lived with the abuse for years before telling her family.
When she did so, the news had a "devastating effect" on her mother.
She said the abuse had an "significant impact" on her life, adding: "Every day I am happy if I can just make it through".
In her statement, the second victim said the abuse had led to her have trouble at school and to start taking drugs to try to "block out" what was happening. She said her suffering and pain continues to this day.
The court heard that one of the victims made a complaint about Collins in the 1990s, but he was not prosecuted.
The allegations were reported to the police again in 2013 - but it took five years for the matter to come to court.
Judge Geraint Walters told the defendant that his actions during the 1980s and 90s had been "truly wicked".
He described Collins as a "devious, arrogant and self-righteous man" who had lived behind veil of respectability partly through his contact with the Jehovah's Witness church.
The judge said that an example of his deviousness was the fact that when the allegations against him started to be investigated, he went to his GP claiming that he had suffered erectile dysfunction for the last 30 years.
Judge Walters said: "You are, in my judgement, a devious man, a self-righteous and arrogant man. You have shown no remorse what-so-ever towards your victims or anybody else.
"You have lived the better part of you life, you have been able to do that - your victims have not.
"There is no sentence I can pass that will restore the lives of the victims to what they might have been but for your behaviour."
He added that the case showed that when allegations of sexual abuse were made they should be tested and investigated not disbelieved.
He called the the five year delay in the case eventually coming to court "unforgivable".
But he praised the officer who eventually took-over the case and saw it through to conviction, saying that for the first time the victims had been treated with the dignity they deserved.

This is how far sexual child abuse exploitation has gone. An innocent 9-year-old black child accidentally pumps a white woman’s behind with his backpack, and she called it sexual assault. This should demonstrate the over exaggeration and propaganda modern technology has made for those that want to seek the truth in a pile of lies.
 
The other thing no one has commented on, Women that sexually abuse children. Even the internet is biased if you google it. No one wants to believe that a woman could do such horrors when they're no different than men. Sexual appetite goes both ways, and if you look at history, twice on Sunday. How many female teachers have been caught having an affair with a student?
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime--law/palm-beach-gardens-woman-accused-sexually-abusing-child-for-years/NWDK1GXCzhLCLqT5ZkmcQO/
https://www.pe.com/2018/09/01/man-woman-in-adelanto-arrested-on-suspicion-of-child-sexual-abuse/
https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/33-year-old-woman-accused-of-sexually-assaulting-a-child
https://www.newsweek.com/mother-films-herself-sexually-abusing-her-young-children-please-men-she-meets-1145946
https://ktul.com/archive/woman-arrested-for-enabling-sexual-abuse-of-her-daughter
http://www.kulr8.com/story/38109913/cheney-woman-arrested-accused-of-molesting-child-on-camera
https://helenair.com/news/crime-and-courts/helena-woman-accused-of-delivering-girls-to-rapist-to-be/article_b171c1d2-b90d-5255-8266-f67fb44ef253.html
https://missoulian.com/news/local/montana-state-prison-female-prison-guards-fired-for-sexual-misconduct/article_0a2e25e4-2f8a-11df-9127-001cc4c03286.html
This one-sided argument does no one any good, get on with your lives, since women can be just as disgusting as men, no matter where you look, you’ll find it.
On another note.
The term restorationist, while it includes Bible students and Jehovah witnesses, doesn’t quite do justice to what the Watchtower really means and stands for.
 The early church father corrupted Jesus true definition with their interpretation of the apostle creed, which finds support even with Unitarians.
 Pastor Russell sought to go beyond the restorationist’s movement which is many since he saw the flaws within the restoration movement that he was determined to set the bible students apart from. So, restorationists with a twist of revisionism could probably describe the Watchtowers intent with this scripture. 1 Timothy 3:14-16
 This brings a more ecclesiastical balance to the truth and the way. The Watchtower has no intermediary other than Gods truth, and that’s the purpose of the Watchtower. How close can they come to Jesus words with what is known, and new things that are found, within linguistic and interpretation in the best possible way.

I don't see why JW's wont believe this, as it's pretty much how many cases were handled, although a few words were a little loaded showing obvious bias.
As far as I know @JW Insider is an active Witness. If so, perhaps he would like to explain why he didn't leave the org.  Sorry JW Insider if I put you on the spot, but this goes back to my conversation with John Butler where I pointed out that I have probably read the same kind of information as him, but why is it that it made him leave, and why am I staying. I know it's a lot more complex than that. There are a lot of factors at play in including personality, experience, honesty, trust etc. Unfortunately our conversation trailed off, maybe it can be restarted again since the topic is "why John Butler left Jehovah's Witnesses" (the topic I never started, the librarian was at it again)

To give more clarification. JW under influence of GB have "mantras" that said; Light gets brighter, FDS aka GB are not inspired but are guided,  We have The Truth, and similar.
In that sense (as general view of WT) JW are as "continuation" of unique Christian congregation of 1 century and "continuation" of apostle and Jesus "unspoiled" teachings about God and holy scriptures, and as such, they have own "world that belong only to God", or they are "part of God's world", as i understand your state.
But as we see also "continuation" in doctrinal changes and by that in behavior and acts that are allowed or stopped to be  allowed, or that are forbidden or stopped to be forbidden, shows that idea of "been part of God's world" have changing effects in life of JW.  JW said how JHVH is god who can not and not change, but his followers and worshipers aka JW  making changes with justification how such changes coming from god , but in same time explaining how JHVH is in fact unchangeable :))). In fact GB try to prove how same teaching JW have now is the same teaching apostles and Jesus had before and vice versa, teaching that apostle had is same that JW have now. 
So, all is "the same" and all is "as in first century congregation", but light gets brighter or changes are viewed as normal evolution process despite the claim how JW nowadays just imitate first congregation and living as first Christians. This is strange idea. WTJWorg try to explain something that is not true in fact. Enumerate how primitive congregation was preach, not went  to warn not celebrated pagan holidays and some other stuff is nice, but to making never ending changes and flip-flops of doctrines and in same time proclaiming himself as the successor to the first church is funny.
:)) sorry for "cryptic", unclear English language sentences. People who are able to understand me have that something in brain that helps  to see what i try to explain :))

@Anna  "Problems have arisen because this situation needs also to be handled secularly, and if the perpetrator is found guilty, to be punished by secular law also, not just disfellowshipped."
We agree on that point. So why does the GB withhold information ? If all the accusations that the GB have on record were handed over to the 'proper secular channels', then all the accusations could be dealt with and those found guilty could be punished. 
Whilst now, even if a person has been disfellowshipped, they are still a danger to children outside the Org. And i come back to the 'duty of care' to the Victims and the general public. 
And as for your 'proper investigation'. It does not take much for an Elder to ask a Victim, 'Do you have witnesses' and for the Victim to say No. Then the Elder say 'There is nothing we can do then'. Investigation over.  

A site that appears closely related to Barbara Anderson's activism has an article claiming to be from an Elder who recently left over the same issue of Child Sexual Abuse. https://scaars.org/2018/10/16/an-insiders-account-about-how-a-report-of-child-sex-abuse-is-handled/
It highlights the problem brought up by John Butler. These are from 3 through 6 of the 10 bullet points from that article:
Two elders would be assigned to talk to the victim and her parent to gather details. If they determine that the child is giving a truthful account, they would report back to the Coordinator about their findings. The proper legal authorities would still not be notified. Their next step would be to call the Legal Department of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (WTBS) in New York. The Legal Department would then direct them as to whether or not they are legally obligated to contact the proper legal authorities to report the case. The default stance taken is that, unless there is a specific state law directing them to do so, the authorities need not be notified. The elders then determine if there will need to be an internal judicial hearing about the accusation. If there is only one witness to the abuse, as is the case in almost every instance of sexual abuse, they will not pursue it further. If there are two witnesses to that specific instance or if there are multiple reports from different children that this has happened at the hands of the same person, they will form a judicial committee to determine whether the offender is repentant. This committee will decide whether the offender can remain a member of the congregation or will be excommunicated, or disfellowshipped according to Jehovah’s Witness nomenclature. If the offender is not disfellowshipped, other members are not informed about the situation. At the most, an announcement might be made that the offender was “reproved” but displayed repentance. No mention of the type of crime will be divulged to the congregation. Parents will be unaware that a sexual offender is in their midst. They will continue to socialize and trust that their children are safe even in the presence of the offender.  

But isn't this just going round in circles. The Elders conduct a Scriptural investigation, but only if they believe Child Abuse has taken place.
If they dismiss the Victim as telling lies, because the victim does not have two witnesses, or no solid proof, then the 'investigation' is almost nothing. Many victims have said they were not believed. So it's back to square one. Elders are not trained investigators to investigate such matters. 

To prove? People who are educated in searching, investigating, and have resource and are legitimate for entering inside system as Watchtower Company, have to be people from outside of "Organization". Of course, some "Insider" can be helpful in providing further details and introspective information to such team of people.    
In every religious organization (here are of great concern such organizations) exist people who have interest to hide and people who have interest to reveal. WT JWorg is not above this "human influence" :))) 

6  Jesus said to him: “I am the wayf and the truthgand the life.h No one comes to the Father except through me.
Anyone that serves God properly through Jesus Christ is a follower of truth, because Jesus is the truth. 
But many JW's use the expression 'in the truth' to mean being part of the organisation, not as belonging to God through Christ.
 Quote : "Does this not apply to everyone, who follows in Jesus footsteps?"  So does a person have to be a JW then ?
Can we say, Christian sects that support hiding Child Abuse / Pedophilia in their organisation are reputable men ?  That accounts for a large percentage too. Should honest Christians follow suit?
To quote you Billy: , There needs to be a distinction otherwise, we’d be no better for being followers of Christ and unwilling to submit to God’s authority on earth. Where will we be then? if not in the hands of the devil that separates us from the truth.
You see Billy that is what I've found. The JW Org is no better than any other one.. And when I've said about the Child Abuse within the Org, others have said, yes but it happens everywhere. And here you are saying, as I've said many times, There needs to be a distinction...