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JOHN BUTLER

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  1. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    I see no evidence that the Governing Body is trying to "extricate" themselves from the 100 and more years of failed false prophesy, and all the arrogant presumptuousness that accompanies their brazen self-aggrandizement,
    I think, JWI that your considered assessment is a hopeful fantasy ... until they openly and completely and unambiguously make a full and public written apology for all the harm they have caused over the last at least 60 years with their arrogant and transparent manipulations for the sake of power and money, and real estate.
    .... and put into effect policies and procedures for it not to happen .... again, and again, and again, and again, as we have watched for half a century.
    .... and fer crying out loud .... throw those atrocious "Telly Awards" in the trash.
    Nothing is more embarrassing than watching a con-man that is not good at it....
    ... and get those Caleb and Sophia dolls out of Tight Pants Tony's Office!

  2. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    .... and have the Governing Body solemnly charge the Watchtower Lawyers to pursue JUSTICE, wherever it may be found ... NOT to forsake and pervert justice, to preserve the WTB&TS Treasury, and Warwick lifestyle.
  3. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to JW Insider in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    With the above as the basis, we can now begin to see an issue with the explanation.
    After arriving in 1914, Jesus was supposed to have appointed the GB as the FDS in 1919. But the original parable is about Jesus appointing the FDS and then departing for an unknown amount of time.
    If Jesus arrived in 1914, and appointed the FDS in 1919, then when did he depart?  Where did he depart to? For a time, after 1916, Rutherford got very quiet about the 40 years of harvest running from 1874 to 1914, and, in fact, he changed those 40 years, and made them run from 1878 to 1918.  At the time, recall, 1914 was still considered an embarrassing, failed expectation. It had not yet been tied to any invisible presence [still 1874] or the start of Christ's Kingdom [still 1878], or the casting down of Satan. And the "first resurrection" was not yet tied to 1918; it was still 1881. So Rutherford would soon begin to speak of Jesus having "arrived" in 1918 for the inspection and cleansing of the Temple. In spite of a great European War in 1914, it was pretty clear to Rutherford that nothing Biblically significant had happened in 1914. That was supposed to be the final VISIBLE manifestation of an invisible presence that started 40 years earlier. After inspection, 1919 would be the new fresh start. In the early 1920's, Rutherford reaffirmed the chronology, including 1874, 1878, 1881, and 1914 in preparation for the sureness of his 1925 prediction. But he also said that there was more proof for 1925 than there had been for 1914.
    So now we move onto the details. Luke says there are four classes of slave:
    Faithful and Discreet who will be appointed over all belongings on the Master's arrival Unfaithful Slave who will be beaten with greatest severity Understanding Slave who didn't get ready and is beaten with many strokes Misunderstanding Slave who gets beaten with few strokes. This of course matches the parable of the talents where a master makes appointments to various servants, and a NWT cross-reference points us to Matthew 25:
    (Matthew 25:14-30) . . .“For it is just like a man about to travel abroad who summoned his slaves and entrusted his belongings to them. 15 He gave five talents to one, two to another, and one to still another, to each according to his own ability, and he went abroad. . . . 19 “After a long time, the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them. 20 So the one who had received the five talents came forward and brought five additional talents, . . . 21 His master said to him: ‘Well done, good and faithful slave! You were faithful over a few things. I will appoint you over many things. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 Next the one who had received the two talents . . . 23 His master said to him: ‘Well done, good and faithful slave! You were faithful over a few things. I will appoint you over many things. Enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 “Finally the slave who had received the one talent . . . In reply his master said to him: ‘Wicked and sluggish slave, . . . 29 For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 30 And throw the good-for-nothing slave out into the darkness outside.. . .
    It ends with an idea similar to the way Luke ends the parable of the faithful and wise steward:
    (Luke 12:48) . . .Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.
    In fact, we have a situation in several parables (marriage feast, where the idea is always that the Master makes an appointment over some of his belongings to his servants, and then the master departs to travel abroad, and then the master returns (at a time they didn't expect) and the Master judges those slaves.
    Another short one is in Mark (the doorkeeper), where Jesus gives authority to his slaves, to each one his work.
    (Mark 13:34) It is like a man traveling abroad who left his house and gave the authority to his slaves, to each one his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to keep on the watch. 35 Keep on the watch, therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether late in the day or at midnight or before dawn or early in the morning, 36 in order that when he comes suddenly, he does not find you sleeping.
    Back when Jesus departed in 33 to travel abroad, these parables made more sense. After all he assigned persons like Peter to "feed his little sheep" in 33 CE and then departed. He then returned in 1914 or 1918 for an inspection (of the Temple) and judged a group as ready for a greater assignment. But now Jesus arrives in 1914, to makes an assignment, but remains present to arrive later to make a judgment and greater appointments over all his belongings. Obviously the whole thing was turned into a mess in order to twist 1914 and 1919 into the mix, but it doesn't work anymore, because Jesus never departs after making the assignments.
    And of course, in the Watchtower version, we have now eliminated the evil slave as a non-existent hypothetical, even though Jesus always considered two three or four or even more slaves, each one according to his work. The Watchtower avoids Luke's version altogether because it might require thinking about who is represented by the non-existent hypothetical second slave who gets punished severely, and the third non-existent hypothetical slave who gets many strokes, and the fourth non-existent hypothetical slave that gets few strokes.
    But here's the most indiscreet part:
    No one is declared the "faithful and wise servant" until after that judgment by Jesus. None of them were supposed to presumptuously claim that they were already to be identified as that slave and that any chance of becoming evil or punished is only hypothetical or non-existent. It's up to Jesus to make that judgment when he returns.
    And of course this points up another major flaw when we claim that this final judgment as faithful results in appointment over all his belongings. At this point, the Watchtower explains that we are no longer talking about the FDS anymore, but the time when ALL the anointed, the GB along with the other 143,966 anointed, are equally appointed over all his belongings at the same time. (With no concern over who those other classes of faithful, less faithful, and unfaithful servants might have been.)
  4. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Witness in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    Jesus knew it was coming.
    Now there was also a dispute among them, as to which of them should be considered the greatest. 25 And He said to them, “The kings (elder body) of the Gentiles (those not anointed) exercise lordship over them, and those who exercise authority over them are called ‘benefactors.’ (GB)  26 But not so among you; on the contrary, he who is greatest among you, let him be as the younger, and he who governs as he who serves. 27 For who is greater, he who sits at the table, or he who serves? Is it not he who sits at the table? Yet I am among you as the One who serves.  Luke 22:24-27
    They are called "benefactors"
    "Benefactors" - A title of honor, conferred on such as had done their country service, and upon princes, equivalent to Soter, Pater Patriae. ("Father of the Country")
     I believe JWs will agree that the GB/"faithful and discreet slave" has done their "country service"; yet totally blind to their true identity as "dictators".  
  5. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to JW Insider in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    This is, in fact, a pretty easy question to answer. You did hit the nail on the head, as it were, with the definition of "discreet."
    Here's where we can begin to see why.
    The primary Watchtower that changed our current definition of the FDS was back in July 15, 2013. The article claimed that the FDS was now specifically and uniquely associated with the Governing Body. There we see the following, which I am including again here, not for you, but mostly for those who might not have read it carefully.
    *** w13 7/15 p. 20 par. 3 “Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?” ***
    In the past, our publications have said the following: At Pentecost 33 C.E., Jesus appointed the faithful slave over his domestics. The slave represents all anointed Christians on earth as a group at any one time since then. The domestics refer to the same anointed ones as individuals. In 1919, Jesus appointed the faithful slave “over all his belongings”—all his earthly Kingdom interests.
    The first part of that old view goes back to Russell: that all of the anointed made up the faithful slave. Russell kept that view from 1879 to until about 1897. The assumption was that they would be appointed over all his belongings at the time of their resurrection. Then, in 1897, Russell discreetly published an article stating that the slave was only one person, one individual. Then, very indiscreetly, began publishing letters and articles that addressed himself as that faithful and wise servant (FDS), allowed himself to be referred to like this at conventions, and began referring to the Watchtower publications as "food at the proper time" or "meat in due season."
    Watchtower publications have said that Russell personally admitted to being the FDS in private. The publications have also stated that, when asked, he would sometimes respond: "Some say the Society is [that servant] . . . some say that I am."
    An attempt to apply another faithful steward parable to Rutherford began shortly after Russell died. But Rutherford himself continued to teach that Russell had personally been that faithful and wise servant. 
    That didn't last more than a decade, though, because Rutherford went back to Russell's original view that all the 144,000 made up the faithful slave class, and that they fed one another, including themselves, as the domestics. Later it was added that 1919 had been the year that they were appointed over all Christ's belongings. By the 1950's, the "governing body" as the representative officers of the Watch Tower Society began associating themselves more directly with the work of that "faithful and discreet slave."
    *** w58 1/15 pp. 45-47 pars. 17-23 Overseers in Apocalyptic Times ***
    Can it still be true that the holy spirit appoints overseers over the congregations of true Christians today? Since the spirit is God’s invisible active force and is silent and unfeelable, how could we be sure that the appointing of overseers is by it today? The Holy Bible, God’s Word, makes this certain.. . .  Since 1919 God’s organization has risen up to let the light of his glory shine amid the gross darkness of this world, and the time has come for the fulfillment of his promise: “I will . . . make thy chiefs peaceful and thine overseers righteous.” (Isa. 60:1, 2, 17, AS; LXX; Thomson; Bagster) We are living also in the time of final fulfillment of the prophecy to which the apostle Peter referred on the day of Pentecost, namely: “It shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my Spirit.” (Joel 2:28, 29, AS; Acts 2:16-18) We should therefore expect the spirit’s activity to include appointing overseers.
    19 As in the days of the apostles, the Christian flock of Jehovah God has over it a visible governing body. It acts for and in expression of the “faithful and discreet slave” whom Jesus Christ has appointed since coming into his kingdom in the heavens in 1914. When warning his apostles about his coming for the judgment of his followers at an unknown hour in the time of the end of this old world, Jesus said: “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.” (Matt. 24:45-47) Since 1919 this “faithful and discreet slave,” who is a composite person made up of all anointed Christian joint heirs of Jesus Christ, has been taking care of “all his belongings” on earth. The slave has been faithfully giving out the spiritual, Biblical food at the proper time, so that there is no spiritual famine among the Christian witnesses of Jehovah. To make this “faithful and discreet slave” class equal to their heavy responsibilities in these last days, God through Christ has poured out his spirit upon them in these last days, in complete fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy.
    20 The governing body of the “faithful and discreet slave” class is taken from the members of this same anointed, spirit-filled class. By God’s spirit it is functioning. So, then, when the appointment of overseers is made by this governing body in harmony with the requirements laid down for overseers, it is really by the spirit that such overseers are appointed, although through human intermediaries. As the modern history of Jehovah’s witnesses shows, this is specially true since 1932, when the system of elective elders and deacons [ministerial servants] was done away with in their congregations.
    21 The governing body of mature members of the “faithful and discreet slave” class always seeks the guidance of God’s holy spirit in appointing responsible men in the congregations overseers, together with their assistants, the ministerial servants. They do not act according to any personal favoritism or any bias. . . .
    22 When, now, the governing body designates overseers that meet those plainly stated requirements, it is really the holy spirit that leads to the appointing of such overseers; it is really the holy spirit that makes such overseers. This fact becomes more evident when we note that it is also the fullness of the indwelling of the holy spirit in the candidate for the office of overseer that influences his appointment. The candidate must show that he is filled with the spirit by the way he conducts himself and his family (if he has one). . . .
    23 In consideration of the spirit’s fruitage produced by the candidate and in harmony with the written requirements set out in the Holy Scriptures written by men under the operation of the holy spirit, the governing body acts, being itself moved by the holy spirit for which it prays to God that it may guide the governing body. In every respect, then, the spirit of God comes to the fore in the matter of appointing overseers. So today as well as in Paul’s day it may be said that the holy spirit appoints overseers over the flock of God that he purchased “with the blood of his own Son.” (Acts 20:28, Schonfield) If in course of time any overseer turns out bad, we must remember that even Judas Iscariot, whom Jesus himself selected to be an apostolic overseer, turned out bad, betraying his own Overseer, the Chief Shepherd, to his enemies to be killed.
    I included a little extra from the context of the earlier Watchtower as foundation for discussing some related aspects such as the actual meaning of spirit-led organization, etc. But the main point is to keep in mind the two primary views most of us have held during our lifetime as Witnesses:
    (1950's-2013) The GB, especially since 1919, acts for and in expression of the FDS, which has included all the anointed since 33 CE., but which has been appointed over all Christ's belongings since 1919. (2013-present) The GB, since 1919, is now the same thing as the FDS, which no longer includes all the anointed, but only the GB, and has only been appointed since 1919, but will not be appointed over all Christ's belongings until a future time when all of the anointed are in heaven.
  6. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to TrueTomHarley in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    No, that is not a problem at all. None of the items of baptism are affected.
    If the map changes because roads have been added or deleted, do you burn the city down?
    You are so silly, John.
  7. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Evacuated in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    "Play with fire get burned" principle unfortunately. Elders SHOULD have looked for extenuating circumstances and presumably found none. Why would anyone in  their right mind go in  to a house, unchaperoned with a romantically involved partner, and in danger of falling asleep? They must have presented very badly to the elders involved.
     
    Denied what? What they hadn't done? Their attitude is what got them disfellowshipped most likely.
  8. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to JW Insider in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    Sorry about this, but I'm going to play the "Bible's Advocate" here for a bit. First of all, there is nothing to disagree with on any of those questions because the answer is given only with Scripture, not interpretation of those Scriptures. Not one of the questions mentions "the generation," nor 1914, nor 1919, nor 1922, nor the United Nations, nor the "great crowd," nor the "other sheep," nor the "anointed," nor the meaning of at least a thousand different prophetic interpretations.
    Even the question, about the Governing Body spells out no specific opinion to disagree with, because the term is never mentioned in any of the scriptures:
    *** od pp. 201-202 Part 3 Jehovah’s Arrangement of Things ***
    12. What is the Governing Body of the Christian congregation, and what role does it fill today?
    “Some men came down from Judea and began to teach the brothers: ‘Unless you get circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.’ But after quite a bit of dissension and disputing by Paul and Barnabas with them, it was arranged for Paul, Barnabas, and some of the others to go up to the apostles and elders in Jerusalem regarding this issue.”—Acts 15:1, 2.
    “As they traveled on through the cities, they would deliver to them for observance the decrees that had been decided on by the apostles and the elders who were in Jerusalem. Then, indeed, the congregations continued to be made firm in the faith and to increase in number day by day.”—Acts 16:4, 5.
    “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.”—Matt. 24:45-47.
    If anyone had studied the verses in Matt 24:45-47 carefully, along with the Watchtower's explanation, I would think it should have been obvious to them that the Governing Body cannot currently claim to be that faithful slave of Matt 24:45. So the question itself, when applied to the Scripture, would only go so far as to indicate that the Governing Body, like all good Christians, would only HOPE they are faithfully participating in fulfilling a role of a faithful and discreet slave.
    The reason, of course, has already been explained, but I'm always willing to explain again.
  9. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Anna in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    Thank you for drawing attention to the aspect of circumstantial evidence. In this case, this was counted as a witness. Not hard to do since it was known that the couple in question was already romantically involved.
  10. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to JW Insider in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    I know of a couple of Witnesses who were both disfellowshipped based on the ZERO-witness policy. Both were very good friends of mine, and were about my age. One never tried to be reinstated, and neither are JWs today.
    This was 1976. He was about 19, and was considered a spiritually weak, immature brother who had delayed getting baptized until just that year, and his father wasn't a Witness. He began dating a sister, 18, who had just begun regular pioneering. The gossip was tough on her from the beginning because neither her own family or many others in the congregation thought she should date a young, newly baptized, irregular publisher if she wanted to continue pioneering. He was accused of finally getting baptized just so he could date her.
    She worked in a hospital in the city on some kind of "candy striper" program that had turning into an internship, and she had to work til about midnight, and didn't drive, and wanted to stay in the city near the hospital. My parents had sold our country house in 1975 and had just moved into the city to rent, so that my mother could also pioneer. I had already moved to another congregation about 100 miles away where my brother had started a business. So my parents would often give this sister my old room in the rented city house.
    One night she stayed overnight with the brother she was dating at his home (when his parents were away). She claimed that they hadn't even gone on a date that night, that nothing happened, and it was just for temporary convenience that she remained there after falling asleep. She normally would have come to our house that night and slept in my old room. He also claimed that nothing had happened. They claimed it was one of those "Wake up little Susie, wake up!" situations after both of them fell asleep.
    Well, my parents had already informed her parents that she hadn't come to our house that night.  (This was pre-cell phone days.) Her parents ended up finding out she was at the brother's house at around 5 am. She normally got up early from our house and got a ride home in the daytime.
    They were disfellowshipped for fornication, even though both of them denied it. They were obviously not repentant because both of them denied it. She had admitted staying at his house. He was the one who tried to get reinstated. He called me at Bethel the next year to ask about what might be done since he had not realized that he could have appealed it. I visited him on a summer off from Bethel in 1977 and he got reinstated within a few weeks after that. His own father WANTED him to stay disfellowshipped because he thought it would discourage him from going back to the Witnesses. He got reinstated, but was bitter about it. I have no idea if anything actually happened that night, but he (and she) always denied that anything at all happened.
  11. Like
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    And this is how it was and probably still is possible to HIDE Pedophiles in the JW Org. 
    Why ? Because it seems people like Anna and others in that Org think YOU MUST OBEY like robots. 
    Hence the Elders HAVE obeyed like robots, and we have seen the terrible results. And don't try to tell me the Two Witness Rule wasn't used, because there is enough evidence Earthwide to prove it was. And the Elders, it seems, didn't even question their obedience to the GB, as opposed to the love and kindness they should have shown to victims. 
    Why Oh Why do you people worship those 8 men ? They even say they are not inspired and that they err. 
    And what is the point of actually having a Bible ? And what is the point of actually being able to pray in person to God and to ask for spiritual guidance ?  Only to be told by your GB and Elders, not to think for yourselves. 
    Remember Life of Brian "You're all individuals"  And one guy says "I'm not".  Well it seems you lot are not individuals either.
    What did J.T.R. Jr say, something about not being a 'monolinth' well some such word. James said all JW's are different and do things for different reasons. It doesn't seem so here. It seems that you all want to be robots. 
    Quote from above comment  " *** w04 10/1 p. 7 “The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth”—How? ***
    One who is meek humbly accepts God’s standards in all aspects of his personal life.... " 
    Well that is not happening in the JW Org that is for sure.  And when I've mentioned judgingthe JW Org by God's standards I've been criticised for it. If the Society / GB had been meek and humble then the Org would not be in such a mess, and it wouldn't need to be making massive payouts either.  I'll just repeat that line from above comment :-
    One who is meek humbly accepts God’s standards in all aspects of his personal life...
     
  12. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in What concept/concepts is behind the term "inspired"?   
    ... think about how EFFECTIVE it would be if therapists just let patients beat the hell out of them for a half hour ....
    ... it probably works like that, both ways!
     
  13. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in What concept/concepts is behind the term "inspired"?   
    More like the "man of five minutes" ... unless you are distracted by a squirrel outside your window.
    You have medallions?
  14. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Anna in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    There is something else I wanted to add to this. It's not that JW's personal views are valueless, but if you look up the definition of "to harbor" you will see that it means something like "keep (a thought or feeling, typically a negative one) in one's mind, especially secretly....with the synonyms  "nurturing" "nursing" "cherishing". It's all about attitude. There may be something that a JW understands differently to the GB/FDS, they just don't see it the same way. If someone understands something differently to the GB/FDS, do you think it would be reasonable to expect that someone to stop seeing it that way just for the sake of it? Or has it more to do with the attitude of that person? For example, someone may not really accept the explanation of the "Generation" although they tried, but just can't. The immature person might want to make a big deal out of it. They may "nurse" their idea until it becomes unbearable and consumes everything else, including all the "truths" they previously cherished. Now the only idea they "cherish" is their own opinion. The mature Christian accepts they may understand things differently and moves on, and waits till things become clearer one way or another. Let's say at some point in the past someone had a personal opinion on a subject which was not the official understanding at the time. Some years later though, the very opinion they had, now becomes the official teaching. Does that mean they were guilty of having the trait of an immature Christian just for having that different opinion? Obviously not. But they would have been an immature Christian had they "harbored" those thoughts to the point of advocating their opinion and becoming consumed by it.
    When it's not merely a personal opinion or idea but a clear unambiguous Bible teaching. This is why it's important to know your Bible well. Those who didn't get carried away with 1975 were cognizant of the scripture which clearly says "no one knows the day or hour" no matter what anyone else was saying. Some who did get carried away blamed the org. for their losses. It's up to each person how they react, in the end we stand alone in front of the judgement seat of God and render an account for ourselves, not for anyone else.
  15. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in What concept/concepts is behind the term "inspired"?   
    Isn’t that another indication that ‘Judgement day’ is not so far off? The planet is frying. 
    Tom, in WW1 I would think lots of people were saying 'Oh look at the state of this world, Armageddon must soon be here' 
    and in WW2 people would have said the same. And in Vietnam again the same.  And then there were big plagues, tsunamis, hurricanes et al. During each and every disaster I would think some people would think it was Armageddon / Judgement day, or hoped it would be. 
    I think most JW's want it to be Armageddon very soon. Keep hoping for it Tom, but don't hold your breath. 
    People's brains are frying by using mobile phones / cell phones.  And we've had hotter weather than this in the 1960's. 
    You've got time to write ten more books yet, you'll be a millionaire by the time Judgement day arrives. If you live that long. I won't be alive when the Judgement comes, and according to Billy I won't get a resurrection either. But the dead are conscious of nothing at all, so if I don't get resurrected i won't know about it.   People take it all much too seriously. 
  16. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to TrueTomHarley in What concept/concepts is behind the term "inspired"?   
    Isn’t that another indication that ‘Judgement day’ is not so far off? The planet is frying.
    Unless—what I recently read is true—that someone said ‘it feels like 115 in France’—and some climate change zealot confused the ‘feels like’ with ‘actually’—and it was not ‘record’ temperature at all.
    If that is the case, then people’s brains are frying, which also means Judgement day cannot be too far off.
  17. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to TrueTomHarley in What concept/concepts is behind the term "inspired"?   
    Then they are ‘Yahweh’s Witnesses.’ Why is this hard?
    The people who witness for Jehovah without being baptized are invariably on the road to baptism, and usually are so in very short order.
    To this extent, I admire the ol pork chop. Unwisely, in my view, perhaps even unforgivably unwisely, he treats abusively ones taking the lead in the Christian work. (Remember what Paul said after leaning he had said ill of the high priest)
    But he nonetheless knows that if he leaves the human organization that represents Jehovah today, he will, in relatively short order, cease his witnessing. He will begin representing his town in horseshoes instead. 
    He knows how people are. You cannot be faithful at something that so goes against the grain of human normalcy without a supportive arrangement.
  18. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Foreigner in What concept/concepts is behind the term "inspired"?   
    @TrueTomHarley  you lose me half way through your comments. I'm getting old and it's hot here in Devon England 
    Quote "I don’t entreat them to come back on the side of the angels." "Essentially, they have tasted and pronounced Jehovah bad."
    Once again i don't know exactly who you are talking about, BUT these two quotes above make me think that YOU are ONCE AGAIN mixing up JW Org/GB/Wt, with Almighty God. 
    It was YOU that said that a person does not have to be a baptised JW to be able to witness about Jehovah. 
    So does a person have to use the name Jehovah to witness about Almighty God ? What if a person uses the name Yahweh ?  
    Space Merchant for an example. I'm sure he would say he is a Christian. Does he have to use the name Jehovah to talk about God ?
    If perchance you were including me in those above comments, then you judge me badly. But I suppose I put you and the KId in the same pot, so I don't expect anything different. 
    Just a tag on : now i know it was Srecko that you were talking about, i can't remember what you said about  him  
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  20. Haha
  21. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Srecko Sostar in What concept/concepts is behind the term "inspired"?   
    @James Thomas Rook Jr. perhaps Billy is double/triple  agent :)))
  22. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in What concept/concepts is behind the term "inspired"?   
    " To the extent people think he is a Witness, he paints them as the most intolerant, rigid, and anger-prone people on the planet. " - TTH
    That is an incredibly IMPORTANT observation, that I also have considered at great length, as I have seen that many times in the secular world, and occasionally in the Truth.
    That is why I personally think it is VERY important that BillyTheKid46 come out of the closet, and declare whether or not his opinions are that of a Jehovah's Witness, and even whether or not he is a Watchtower Lawyer  ... specifically, himself. He is trying to sit on the fence, hide behind his fake avatar, and fake persona.
    I have often (every time he starts typing ..) thought that he is a bitter enemy of Jehovah's Witnesses, and an excellent psychologist, and deliberately portrays himself as a petulant, angry, demented, slow and  truly nasty person (when he may in actual fact be NONE of those things ...), in order to with reverse psychology make Jehovah's Witnesses look like all those things ... so that others are deliberately CHASED AWAY from any idea that they might want to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
    That's why I started my series of "Weasel" cartoons, to try and "force the issue", of having Billy declare who he REALLY is, behind his anonymous false front .... that he deliberately keeps as a false front to deceive, and mislead.
    I hope Billy clarifies this issue, and I would be heavily inclined to accept his clarification at face value, as stated.
    Years ago, I told a Brother who had come to visit me, that he might want to consider not doing so, as I was not a very good example of a Jehovah's Witness, officially, and hanging around me might get him in serious trouble with the Elders.
    .. I seem to have lost my train of thought ... but there is a lesson in there somewhere ....
    Fortunately, I have a stockpile of cartoons to get refocused on ....
     
     
  23. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to TrueTomHarley in What concept/concepts is behind the term "inspired"?   
    Alright, alright, already—it was Srecko I was speaking of.
    It does play into another bit of speechmaking for me. I don’t think it is proper to entreat ones who have so firmly put himself into the opposite camp after having weighed all the evidence. I don’t do it.
    When I address any of these characters, it is not to sway them—I don’t think that I have seen a single person here alter their position since I came across this site long ago, so what sort of a self-pugilist would pour their time into that futile effort?
    When I address these characters it is to speak to whoever might lie beyond—and that may be nobody. It is also the case that whatever is hammered out eventually appears in some other form where it may do some good.
    The fat lady has not yet sung, so who can say where anyone will be when she does? Still, I don’t entreat them to come back on the side of the angels. They have decisively shown where they want to be. Perhaps some day they will no longer want to be there, but if so, it will not be because of my invitation. They have rejected that invitation decisively after having once accepted it and I think it is wrong therefore to keep extending it. Essentially, they have tasted and pronounced Jehovah bad. Beyond saying ‘check your tastebuds,’ there is little response to be made.
    These are persons—many of them—who conducted themselves so outrageously and unremorsefully in word or deed that they were put out of the congregation, and as such, I keep my distance spiritually. And now they will come online and engage me in earnest spiritual conversation? It’s not happening on my watch.
    it is sort of a fine line—the distinctions between engaging, responding, conversing, answering, and fraternizing. Billy (the bad cop) sees no distinction at all between them and simply practices roasting and toasting. I am not so sure that he is wrong—though I am sure enough about it not to do it myself. It’s mostly the horrible PR that he leaves in his wake that is objectionable. To the extent people think he is a Witness, he paints them as the most intolerant, rigid, and anger-prone people on the planet.
  24. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Foreigner in What concept/concepts is behind the term "inspired"?   
    As far as the anointed, it’s true, it’s nobody’s business who is anointed or not.   This is BtK opinion.
    For my part I would need to know that the leaders of God's servants here on earth were Anointed and inspired of God's Holy Spirit.  It makes sense to me that the leaders need to be both. I do not care in the least if everyone of you on here disagree with me. Who knows, that could make me even more right ...  
    As 'Judgement day' is still a long way off yet, God has plenty of time to show the true Anointed and to prove they are inspired. 
    He did it with early Christians. Why would He not do it now ?  And I'm still happy with my view of 'ten men clinging to the hem of a Jew'. God, through Christ, will guide willing ones to the true Jew, the true Anointed. But He will do it when He is ready, not before.  
  25. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Foreigner in What concept/concepts is behind the term "inspired"?   
    Tom : Well, I think he already has picked, long before he came here, and from our point of view, it is not wise. 
    You do make life complicated when you don't mention who you are talking about. 
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