JOHN BUTLER

About this judgment of spiritual death known as disfellowshipping, and the dispelling of the innocent:
“They will put you out of the synagogues; (“congregations”)  yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. 3 And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. 4 But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them.”  John 16:2-4
“Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. 52 For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three. 53 Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”  Luke 12:51-53
“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.  11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”  Matt 5:10-12
Again, Jesus is speaking to his own people – who attended the synagogues where Israel gathered. 
The false prophet in Revelation 13:11,12,15 directs a “Beast”/organization that spiritually “kills” those who refuse to “worship”/admire the Beast. Rev 13:4  This Beast conquers the anointed ones (spiritual “Israel”) through blasphemy.  Rev 13:5-7; 16:13; 17:3
It’s all there, and enacted today in the organization.  Those who are “thrown out of the synagogues” for Christ’s sake are ultimately the victorious ones, breaking free of captivity to confusion, the meaning of “Babylon”.  Rev 18:4-8
 
 
 
 
 

.... you do not house-train a puppy by cutting off its paws.

.... everyone knows disobedient "children" have to be disciplined.
We do it by destroying whole families, and holding them and others hostage.
Sometimes .... it is not WHAT is done .... it's HOW it is done.
 

If I “hide away” at your comment—which I have since addressed—then I notice that you run like a scared rabbit at mine.
When you say you will be satisfied only with a “true” anointed and I say you won’t, I notice you do not answer that. Why not?
Because you know that what I pointed out is true—if the “true” anointed is anything like the true anointed of the first century, they will make adjustments to changing times and circumstances. They will make some mistakes. They will give evidence of human imperfection. As soon as they do, you will rail against them as LIARS, because that is your pattern. There is no reason to think that it would change.
Why did you “hide away” at that remark, John?

Oh, for crying out loud! You think you have found a ‘gotcha’ do you?
If ones leave Jehovah’s earthly organization and still wishes to call themselves Jehovah’s Witnesses because they say they are still witnessing for Jehovah, be my guest—they are perfectly welcome to do so.
In no time at all, however, they will be witnessing for Yahweh, because the name Jehovah is associated with those they don’t like. Soon thereafter, they will be witnessing for The LORD, because people keep giving them the fisheye when they say ‘Yahweh.’ After that they will stop witnessing altogether, because it is hard, they find themselves unsupported, and they have also lost the thread of what to talk about.
That is the pattern that is seldom deviated from.

You only kid yourself if you think God is 'working with' the GB / JW Org or the Watchtower. 

Yes Tom, we can go with this sentence on next road too. It is amazing how living in this evil world is so good sometimes..... because JHVH had been successful in accomplished few good things through secular people and their evil systems, despite what He has/had to work with. :))   

I think it is more along the lines of what a certain brother observed. The younger ones got to be ragging on each other, and he would lean back and marvel, “It’s amazing what Jehovah accomplishes considering what he has to work with.”

I suppose how every Truth, of every Kind, is Perfect Thing. The Truth is impossible to be something else but Perfect. By this kind of logic everyone who tell/told the Truth about something was showed sort of Perfection in particular Moment for particular Issue. .....Why? Because you don't need to have perfect body or perfect mind to tell The Truth! 
Other problem with our Truths is what @JW Insider has told before: We can believe or/and assure ourselves in something as it is The Truth. :)) But i think, here is more about our Interpretations on this or that, reality or fiction, which come to be, after procedures and mechanisms in Personal or Institutional authorizations, Sort of Normative or Doctrines. And as such some of this various Things in one and same Structure can be Truths and Lies.
Exactly this amalgam of such two opposite things that can be/existing in one single Entity (person or organization of any kind) make that person or organization Imperfect. 
As result, of this Truth, Watchtower IS Imperfect because Truths and Lies Living Together inside Organization/Society.        

On 6/18/2019 at 12:01 AM, BillyTheKid46 said: This is why Jesus never became a formal rabbi with scholarly works. He didn’t need to, just like we don’t need to.
It is fine, as you said @BillyTheKid46 that JW's rejects Formal Religious Education. I am little surprised how in own comments you looking for supports of sources that belong to Formal Education of this World and Religions. :))
  

So Billy wants faith and obedience to MEN. MEN who admit to not being inspired of God's Holy Spirit.
And Billy compares that to the Apostles that were Inspired of God's Holy Spirit and proved it too. 
And Billy thinks that people want the Watchtower to be perfect, whereas Jesus said
'You even though you are wicked, know how to give good gifts to your  children' 
Matthew 7 v 9 through 11. 
Indeed, which one of you, if his son asks for bread, will hand him a stone?10  Or if he asks for a fish, he will not hand him a serpent, will he? 11  Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him!
So here we have Jesus saying that if the Anointed / or those taking the lead,  asked God for good things then God would give those good things. Then the Anointed / those taking the lead, would pass on those good things to the congregation. No lies, no deceit, just good things. 
Billy also thinks the Watchtower / JW Org was 'set up' by God or so his comment looks. 
Quote Billy "God demands for his followers to follow a structured authority setup by him."
So would the onus be on Billy to prove  that the Watchtower / JW Org was set up by God ? 
I personally would think the 'demand' from God would be that we serve God through Jesus Christ. 

No, what it means is, as long as you are true to God and follow scripture, you do not have to be obedient to the GB and its org. 
So i can be a JW in the eyes of some as I still bear witness to God and Christ.    
But I'm not one of Jehovah's Witnesses as I left that Org. 
Actually Tom, you have made a fantastic loophole. You are saying that anyone that witnesses about 'Jehovah' is one of Jehovah's witnesses. 
So in point of fact no one needs to become a member of that two sided Org, the Watchtower and JW Org. 
You have actually made the lovely division between talking about God to others, and, being a member of a false religion that uses God's name. Thanks Tom.
You have made it clear that one does not need to be a member of JW Org or the Watchtower, to be able to serve God. 
 

@BillyTheKid46  Like I said Billy we have different opinions. 

@BillyTheKid46 You make a charge of judgment against the Watchtower leaders as false teachers when in fact by your own actions and words, you are this false prophet. 
Oh dear Billy, there is no good reason to even talk to you.  Your Watchtower GB and the ones before them the Bible Students all made things up as they went along. It gets boring to keep mentioning the 'Superior Authorities' and the 'This Generation' and the Blood Issue and the Two witness rule........................................ 
Billy you just don't want to see the honest truth, so be it. 
2Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 
Well that has certainly happened in the JW Org hasn't it. CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE. earthwide
3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. 
Armageddon 1914, 1975,  and now soooo close.   Only those in the JW Org will get saved.  The GB are the Faithful and Discreet slave. Lies and more lies. 
BUT I'm not a prophet. Showing the truth about a wicked GB and it's two Orgs is not prophecy. 
Even if you die of old age, what good will it do you, to be judged as unrighteous? Now that's a crazy idea! 🤔
I think we have a different idea of 'unrighteous' Billy.  My thought are that when a person dies their sins die with them. So a  resurrection is a clean start. 
We also have a different idea about sinning against the spirit. In my opinion, and it will remain so, only the true Anointed can sin against the spirit, because only they are inspired of God by God's Holy spirit. 
Hence I also believe that the Bible is for the true Anointed to fully understand and to pass on true information to the earthly class. Back to 'ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew'. 
 
 

I think Noah was a bit more proactive. Or did he just put a sign on the side or the Ark ? 

No, what it means is, as long as you are true to God and follow scripture, you do not have to be obedient to the GB and its org. 
So i can be a JW in the eyes of some as I still bear witness to God and Christ.    
But I'm not one of Jehovah's Witnesses as I left that Org. 
Actually Tom, you have made a fantastic loophole. You are saying that anyone that witnesses about 'Jehovah' is one of Jehovah's witnesses. 
So in point of fact no one needs to become a member of that two sided Org, the Watchtower and JW Org. 
You have actually made the lovely division between talking about God to others, and, being a member of a false religion that uses God's name. Thanks Tom.
You have made it clear that one does not need to be a member of JW Org or the Watchtower, to be able to serve God. 
 

does this apply to an org that states, no beards, no blood, no birthday? 
does it apply to an org that says they are the only means/way for salvation?

@Anna  In my opinion, based on fact that no where in WTJWORG print or digital way, GJ appearance  before ARC was NOT possible to see (to read about) on JWTV Broadcasting, to empowered your reasoning, claim  before JW people on that other website. 
By that they consider you sort of "apostate" or at least person who spread false gossip. But this was good experience for you.
You, as JW are not "inspired". Bro GJ as GB of JW's is not "inspired" too. So, how than, that his words have more value than Your's ?! :)) 

Hi Anna! Sorry for the delay in response. I am a little bit confused what you mean about complete obedience being in the minds of only some Witnesses. The Governing Body spells it out in their literature. Here are some notable examples:
Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same? (w09 2/15 pp. 24-28) "We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah’s approval." (w11 7/15 p.24 Simplified English Edition) "[A mature christian] does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." (w01 8/1 p.14) I am not sure how much clearer they can be about their attitude. They expect complete trust and obedience in their direction. For Br. Jackson to suggest that JWs would see wrong direction and not follow it is disingenuous. The truth is that adherents have continued to obey the GB throughout its self-admitted history of erring direction.
JWs are literally told that their personal views are valueless next to the direction of the organization: "He [a mature Christian] does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding." (Watchtower 2001 Aug 1 p.14) So, under what circumstances would JWs suddenly become aware that their personal ideas on the Bible have weight? Members are primed to put loyalty to leadership and the group ahead of their personal faith.

The apostles were not organized according to men's standards, but by the standards of God's Holy Spirit.  What we see as "organized" is by the structured standards established for centuries.   Today, we see organizations everywhere, with their set of guidelines, rules and authority.  So, we believe this is how something as important as preaching must be done.  Yet, God's ways are not man's ways, as we can see by the apostles driven solely by Holy Spirit.  Acts 16:6,7; 20:22,23; 8:29,30; Isa 55:8,9 (Ps 50:21)
Can men who think they can run a preaching work by their standards, be giving the right message?  With the WT, the message has been altered so many times, surely it is obvious the Holy Spirit isn't the driving force  behind  the "preaching work".  
And, what if their message isn't reaching those whom Jesus expected it to?  Matt 10:6,23; Rev 11:1-3
 
 
 
 
 

Greek grammar rules out ‘a god’.
JWs say that for Jesus to be Jehovah God here, there should be the definite article ‘the’
(Greek ‘ό’) before God (θεος). Because ‘θεος’ does not have the definite article ‘ό’ before it,
JWs conclude that ‘the word’ was indefinite, and means ‘a god’.
Answer: A.T. Robertson Greek authority says (A Grammar of Greek NT, p.767):
‘Nouns in the Predicate: The article is not essential to speech....The word with the article
(“ό”) is then the subject of the sentence, whatever the word order may be. So in John 1:1, “
ό λογος” , the subject is perfectly clear (“the word” = “ό λογος”, and it can only be “the word
was God”.’
Key: Hence the article ‘the’ (ό) points out the subject (ό λογος) of the clause, and points out
the predicate (θεος ) without the article.
If John had written ‘ό θεος ην ό λογος’ as the JWs would want, then John would be teaching
false doctrine of Sabellianism (that Christ is all of God, that God and Christ are
interchangeable, that the Father was the one who became incarnate, suffered and died).
Note: If the article is used with both the subject (ie. λογος ) and the predicate (ie. θεος), they
would then be interchangeable as the subject nouns are in I John 3:4 (η αμαρτια εστιν η
ανομια) then both ‘sin is transgression’ and ‘transgression is sin’ are true’.
But in I John 4:16, ‘ ’ can only be ‘God is Love’, not ‘Love is God’ (because the article
points out the subject). If the Greek language allowed us to say ‘Love is God’ just as readily
as ‘God is Love’ in this verse, then God would not be a person, but just an abstract quality.
(see Was Christ God?, Spiros Zodhiates, p.98).
Conclusion: Hence, the absence of the definite artice ‘􀂆’ in John 1:1 is deliberate in order to
identify ‘the Word’ as the subject of the sentence and to make it only to read as ‘the Word
was God’. It has nothing to do with Christ being a lesser god as the JWs claim. Hence,
contrary to the NWT and The Emphatic Diaglott, the Greek grammatical construction leaves
no doubt whatsoever that ‘the Word was God’ is the only possible rendering of the text.
Colwell’s Rule of Greek grammar clearly states that a predicate nominative (􀂉􀁌􀂆􀀽=God)
NEVER takes a definite article (‘􀂆’) when it precedes the verb ‘was’, as in John 1:1.
Translations which render the Greek in this verse as ‘a god’ or ‘divine’ are
motivated by theological, not grammatical considerations. The phrase ‘a god’ is particularly
objectionable because it makes Christ a lesser god, which is polytheism and contrary to
Deuteronomy 32:39. If Christ is ‘a god’, then He must be either a ‘true God’ or a ‘false god’.
If a ‘true God’, then we have polytheism. If a ‘false god’, then He is unworthy of our belief.
Of course, the correct translation found in the KJV and most other translations (‘the word
was God’), presents Christ as the one and only true God, Jehovah. Therefore, He is
monotheistic and worthy of our belief. John’s high view of Christ as God begins with John
1:1 and ends his gospel with Thomas addressing Christ as ‘my Lord and my God’ in John
20:28. 

Well, John, perhaps next time you and your children will be brutalized, worked to death, and ground into blood sausage, and you will be happier for it.

In my opinion war is not  'the right thing to do'. All this about men being tough doesn't wash with me. 
And maybe most of those men were brainwashed into believing they would die and go to heaven. 
The war was about men and women being conscripted to kill other men and women. 
Remember even some Germans didn't go to war. Probably not only JW's at that.
Sorry James but you seem to have this thing about guns and men being tough. There is enough sh-t in life for some of us that we don't need war or guns to make it worse.  
 

One day it occurred to me that people that face extreme hardship, deprivation, and death with a sure and solid hope in the resurrection have FAR less courage and convictions than the atheist who acting on his convictions, faces extreme hardship, deprivation and death.
I think I came to this realization watching a documentary in the "Battle of Britain" where the English Air force was hopelessly outnumbered by the German Luftwaffe, and as the English pilots rose into the sky to meet the enemy, they had no expectation of surviving the encounter ... and they did it anyway, because it was the right thing to do.
As atheists, they knew what was the right thing to do, and in doing it THEY WOULD BE DEAD FOREVER.
.... now THAT'S courage.

People give their lives for any number of causes without faith in a resurrection. This noble quality of humans is exploited by "cult" leaders regardless of the damage it might do to the individual, and with no thought of benefit to them. Followers are merely pawns.
Interestingly, the word "cult" has come to carry a load of meaning and association  that has little to do with it's original etymology and derivation. Bit like the word "gay".
One current definition that sums up the way many use the word today is  "cult = a religion I don't like".