JOHN BUTLER

Holman Christian Standard Bible
When His parents saw Him, they were astonished, and His mother said to Him, "Son, why have You treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for You." 
So now, was Mary sinning to talk to Jesus like that ?  Or was Jesus wrong for not notifying his parents that he was staying behind ?  

You shot yourself (and the GB / JW Org) down Billy, admit it. No amount of quoting scripture will cover it  up. 
 

You cannot have SELECTIVE application of that bloviating statement, Billy.
It's either universally true, or it is not true.
And i would say it applies even more so for the GB that say they are the 'Faithful and discreet slave' and have made it their business to control over 8 million people's lives. 
Anything i may say can be either agreed with or dismissed with no consequence to the person that agrees or disagrees.
Not so in the JW Org, whereby if a JW disagrees with the GB they can be disfellowshipped and lose everyone and everything they love.

I just used your own words Billy. I haven't twisted them, just quoted them.
They are your own words Billy.  Not understanding scripture is no excuse before God 

I like that BTK recognises this :  Quote BTK  Not understanding scripture is no excuse before God.
Thank you Billy you have just condemned the GB and the Watchtower Soc' and JW ORG. 
With your own words you say it. Remember how misused the scriptures relating to the 'Superior Authorities', and 'This Generation' ?
Remember how the Bible Students / JW org said Armageddon was coming in 1914 and even printed magazines to show it 
 
What Watchtower said 
prior to 1914 What Watchtower claims it said 
prior to 1914 "The year A.D. 1878 … clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord - …" The Time is At Hand (1911 ed) p.239 "The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus’ presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914." Watchtower1993 Jan 15 p.5 "But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble. Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226 "Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." Awake! 1973 Jan 22 p.8  
For many decades, it was plainly stated that Armageddon would come whilst people born prior to 1914 were still alive.

You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth (1982) p.154
At the 2010 annual meeting, John Barr presented another new understanding of the generation. 97 year old Barr was an apt choice to deliver this talk, being the last of the Governing Body born before 1914. He explained the generation is now to include 2 groups whose lives "overlap" since 1914:
If it is truth that a generation includes an "overlap" with those born in 1914, why did Jehovah allow the Watchtower to teach for decades that a generation would end within the lifetime of a person born prior to 1914? Why allow it to introduce several new and contradictory teachings since 1995? Surely this proves Watchtower teachings are not directed by God.

You shot yourself (and the GB / JW Org) down Billy, admit it. No amount of quoting scripture will cover it  up. 
 

Ok, but in His case, it seems how He wasn't need to follow advice "He gave" 2000  years later to His FDS aka GB in WT magazine, the 3 step model: empowered by spirit - assisted by angels - guided by God’s Word?. You using gospel reports to show how He Received holy spirit. When someone Received is that same as to be Inspired?? Received=inspired??!! I don't mind and can join you in this idea. But, problem stays with GB and WTJWORG. Did they Receiving holy spirit in the same way as Jesus did? Again, you state how JW's and GB not need formal education because THEY also like Jesus are Received, are Guided, are Learned, are Empowered, are Lead by Spirit of God.
If it is so and If we want to believe that it is so...., how then this same spirit who acts in the same way with the same effect on people of blood and flesh (Jesus and FDS) bringing so different results?? Why you or somebody else want to eliminate negative results "of god's spirit" that is visible after GB left the conference room at Wednesday, and releasing error teachings for Jesus sheep worldwide?? 
And please, don't say; Jesus was perfect, GB is not. Because if you think so, you would claim, in fact, how holy spirit is not strong enough to help imperfect people. :))
 

Like the old saying goes "What is good for the Goose, is good for the Gander".
You cannot have SELECTIVE application of that bloviating statement, Billy.
It's either universally true, or it is not true.
You cannot apply it to people you disagree with ... yet excuse the Governing Body.
Having double standards is NOT the same as having twice as many standards.

It's quite clear from your words that they are INTENDED to apply only to your agenda.
If all four legged animals are horses ... then a cow must, by your logic, be a vegetable.
Your Billy-think is fully evidenced by calling JW Insider "?winsider",  and thinking his screen name is an affront against God.
Using that same logic, Jehovah's last name is .ORG.
 
 

I just used your own words Billy. I haven't twisted them, just quoted them.
They are your own words Billy.  Not understanding scripture is no excuse before God 

I just used your own words Billy. I haven't twisted them, just quoted them.
They are your own words Billy.  Not understanding scripture is no excuse before God 

I like that BTK recognises this :  Quote BTK  Not understanding scripture is no excuse before God.
Thank you Billy you have just condemned the GB and the Watchtower Soc' and JW ORG. 
With your own words you say it. Remember how misused the scriptures relating to the 'Superior Authorities', and 'This Generation' ?
Remember how the Bible Students / JW org said Armageddon was coming in 1914 and even printed magazines to show it 
 
What Watchtower said 
prior to 1914 What Watchtower claims it said 
prior to 1914 "The year A.D. 1878 … clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord - …" The Time is At Hand (1911 ed) p.239 "The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus’ presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914." Watchtower1993 Jan 15 p.5 "But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble. Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226 "Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." Awake! 1973 Jan 22 p.8  
For many decades, it was plainly stated that Armageddon would come whilst people born prior to 1914 were still alive.

You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth (1982) p.154
At the 2010 annual meeting, John Barr presented another new understanding of the generation. 97 year old Barr was an apt choice to deliver this talk, being the last of the Governing Body born before 1914. He explained the generation is now to include 2 groups whose lives "overlap" since 1914:
If it is truth that a generation includes an "overlap" with those born in 1914, why did Jehovah allow the Watchtower to teach for decades that a generation would end within the lifetime of a person born prior to 1914? Why allow it to introduce several new and contradictory teachings since 1995? Surely this proves Watchtower teachings are not directed by God.

Probably one of the more pressing questions of the day, is whether or not ManBearPig is real !
 
 
 

justice, mercy, love, humility, etc.
This beautiful things you mentioned ... for sure are something that is effect, output (or in Bible terminology Fruit of Spirit) of Inspiration made by Spirit on Human. And also it  is something that can Inspire people around you or around somebody who shine with this beautiful wealth/richness.
And as i mentioned before, we can look, I am looking, on this in two way.
One is: Divine Inspiration in Direct way and in Real time moment made by Power Above.
Another is: Divine Inspiration that already Existing in us, in our blood in our cells, from long time ago and waiting for our permission, our will,  the right moment of our readiness in our deep soul, to be expressed and to be seen on day light. 

I like that BTK recognises this :  Quote BTK  Not understanding scripture is no excuse before God.
Thank you Billy you have just condemned the GB and the Watchtower Soc' and JW ORG. 
With your own words you say it. Remember how misused the scriptures relating to the 'Superior Authorities', and 'This Generation' ?
Remember how the Bible Students / JW org said Armageddon was coming in 1914 and even printed magazines to show it 
 
What Watchtower said 
prior to 1914 What Watchtower claims it said 
prior to 1914 "The year A.D. 1878 … clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord - …" The Time is At Hand (1911 ed) p.239 "The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus’ presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914." Watchtower1993 Jan 15 p.5 "But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble. Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226 "Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." Awake! 1973 Jan 22 p.8  
For many decades, it was plainly stated that Armageddon would come whilst people born prior to 1914 were still alive.

You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth (1982) p.154
At the 2010 annual meeting, John Barr presented another new understanding of the generation. 97 year old Barr was an apt choice to deliver this talk, being the last of the Governing Body born before 1914. He explained the generation is now to include 2 groups whose lives "overlap" since 1914:
If it is truth that a generation includes an "overlap" with those born in 1914, why did Jehovah allow the Watchtower to teach for decades that a generation would end within the lifetime of a person born prior to 1914? Why allow it to introduce several new and contradictory teachings since 1995? Surely this proves Watchtower teachings are not directed by God.

... and the WHOLE 1914 Generations thingy can be resolved by writing down an HONEST answer to the ONE question:
" When Jesus was talking eyeball to eyeball with the Apostles and others, when he said "This generation will not pass away until all these things occur ...", how did THEY understand what Jesus was talking about?"
... ALL ELSE is delusional theological fantasy.
 

John old Boy, you have just pointed out the obvious, that everybody, including myself missed!
BillyTheKid46 ... using HIS OWN LOGIC ( ...and that is a stretch ...) not only shot himself in the foot ... again ... but with his OWN LOGIC, condemned the Governing Body as being reprehensible and clueless.
I do not agree with the concept that he espouses ... as I believe that justice must be tempered with mercy for blind pawns (John 9:41), but his hatred for anyone that does not agree with him has caused him to bend over and start cannibalizing himself, starting with his wounded feet.
One thing you did NOT do is irrefutably document BTK46's arguement FOR the "prosecution".  You really need to learn how to do screen clips.  May I recommend "FastStone Capture", the same one I recommended to JW Insider.
Being the kind and generous Barbarian that I am,  here is the irrefutable proof documentation. in .JPG form, so you can download it as two "units" for future reference.
 

I like that BTK recognises this :  Quote BTK  Not understanding scripture is no excuse before God.
Thank you Billy you have just condemned the GB and the Watchtower Soc' and JW ORG. 
With your own words you say it. Remember how misused the scriptures relating to the 'Superior Authorities', and 'This Generation' ?
Remember how the Bible Students / JW org said Armageddon was coming in 1914 and even printed magazines to show it 
 
What Watchtower said 
prior to 1914 What Watchtower claims it said 
prior to 1914 "The year A.D. 1878 … clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord - …" The Time is At Hand (1911 ed) p.239 "The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus’ presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914." Watchtower1993 Jan 15 p.5 "But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble. Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226 "Jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things." Awake! 1973 Jan 22 p.8  
For many decades, it was plainly stated that Armageddon would come whilst people born prior to 1914 were still alive.

You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth (1982) p.154
At the 2010 annual meeting, John Barr presented another new understanding of the generation. 97 year old Barr was an apt choice to deliver this talk, being the last of the Governing Body born before 1914. He explained the generation is now to include 2 groups whose lives "overlap" since 1914:
If it is truth that a generation includes an "overlap" with those born in 1914, why did Jehovah allow the Watchtower to teach for decades that a generation would end within the lifetime of a person born prior to 1914? Why allow it to introduce several new and contradictory teachings since 1995? Surely this proves Watchtower teachings are not directed by God.

You made comparison of this kind: He didn’t need to (learn in schools), just like we don’t need to.
Well, let put subject again: Because, according to your words, JW's in general and especially all elders with GB as Top Management not need formal education in religious matters, because as you made statement, this people is like Jesus already equipped with needed credentials, questions are: Does this way of getting knowledge, understanding and good fruits is because that all was been result of Inspiration by spirit OR is it result of 3 step model (empowered by spirit? assisted by angels? guided by God’s Word?) ?
Because, WTJWORG explains that this two is not the same. And here you said how  Jesus and JW's archived all this spiritual quality and quantity in the same manner/same way.
I found this view, if it is yours too, as wrong. Was Jesus "Empowered" or "Guided" or "Inspired" by holy spirit. In fact, because Jesus came to Earth from Above as Firstborn who already have ALL Power and Authority and All Spirit, in fact He can spread that Spirit as holy spirit onto, into, on others around Him.
What is difference when WT magazine say: empowered by spirit and guided by Word? But  also using terminology "we are not Inspired by spirit but we are Guided by spirit?!  
Who or What doing what  ??? influence on GB? Somehow, according to explanation they made, to Them, sometimes inspired and guided have different meaning, sometimes the same. And in this WT magazine they put new terminology - empowered.
Very confusing, but perhaps they have such intention to confuse people.  :)))
 

Ya got me on that pacifist issue, BTK46.  
When a bully is flailing about, I defend the ones being falsely accused BY YOU.
...   silly me.
...   and Billy ... the works are ALREADY gummed up .... my "crime" is I know about it.
 

Billy ... If JW Insider's Avatar and moniker is a stumbling block to you, and you think it taints the name of God, you have some serious screws loose.
It's amazing you can walk down the street without having parts fall off.
 

Not lying. Mistaken. Mistaken for almost the same reason that any of us --either currently, or in the past-- have believed the GB are a small group of men. When I believed it, I was not lying. It was just a mistake I was making at the time. I would guess that there are easily hundreds or thousands of Witnesses who notice the same thing in their Bible reading as they went through the illustrations of Jesus in context, and have reached through many of Paul's letters. Perhaps others will have already noticed that a leading member of this same Governing Body, F.W.Franz, once argued very coherently and scripturally that we should NOT see the Governing Body as a small council or committee like those apostles and older men in Jerusalem.
I don't think I have more insight than the GB, I was convinced by the Scriptural argument of F.W.Franz. But there's a good reason why it would not be plain to them. Long before the Governing Body was defined in 1971, the 7 officers of the Watch Tower Society already realized that they were responsible to represent the entire remnant of the anointed on earth, and found themselves soon leading hundreds of thousands of Witnesses and interested persons. No matter what you think, there IS something special about this particular religion. It is unique as a teaching organization in many ways. I've gone into the specifics in the past, but for now, I'm just making a statement of opinion shared by millions of other JWs too.
The GB who find themselves in positions of great responsibility for an organization that is believed to be specifically prophesied about in the Bible, would surely expect that their own position of responsibility must therefore also be prophesied in some way. This doesn't mean that they think they are inspired, only that God's inspiration must have foreseen, not only the fact of this organization, but also some special guidance for its leadership, too. They could have found this in "apostolic succession" as some other religions do. They could have found it in some special new "inspired" prophet as some religions have. They could have decided that a leader was the "angel to the church in Laodicea." They could have seen it in the "the Jew" with 10 men grasping their hem. But they see it in an illustration about servants feeding other servants. Compared to the ways many religions look to give "authority" to a select few, this is actually commendably low-key. But it's still a misuse of the verse. It's an inconsistency based on the March 15, 2015 Watchtower that shows why it is wrong to turn a parable into a prophecy.

FOXNEWSFLASH !  -  June 18, 2019  -  Sydney Australia
In a hidden saltwater lake suspected to have thousands of miles of flooded  underground lava tubes to the Pacific Ocean,   in Central Australia, near Olympic Dam,  known for its high yield Uranium deposits, Forensic Anthropologists discover living precursors to modern day Kangaroos.
Stunning high resolution photos indicate these may have been the Kangaroos that left Australia approximately 4,000 years ago, and swam the Pacific Ocean to mainland Asia, and then hopped many thousands of miles across plains, forests , mountains, swamps, raging rivers and amber waves of grain to the Middle East to become passengers on Noah's Ark.
When asked, Dr. Walter Brotherman, of the Sydney Theological Institute stated "This proves the Bible record is correct, as currently understood by everyone in Christendom,  and that supposed "solid evidence" that Australia has never been deluged is completely false."

and by whose standards.
By God's standards and they are the only standards that matter. And I never said 'everyone' I said some people. 
God has granted us all the ability to reason and to judge, otherwise we would be robots. We all make judgements every day I would imagine. We might call them decisions but those decisions arrive by our making judgements on matters or even judgements on people. 
I had to make a judgement when I was deciding to leave the JW Org. Three months research, not three minutes. So it was a judgement i made, not in haste, but in taking time to think about, and pray about, my part in an organisation that i knew in my heart was wrong.  
Some people on this forum actually agree with me on some of my findings, and they even give me fresh information that i knew nothing about, but they prefer to stay inside the JW org. So 'God has not given me any more that he has given others' in this respect. Many people know about the GB's / JW Org's failings and deliberate lies, but some of those people prefer to be part of it. I know not why. 
you will ultimately be judged by God more severely more so for leading his children astray
It is your opinion that JW's are God's 'children', nothing more than your opinion. 
 

@Srecko Sostar You are right. The only research i did when i was a JW, was in JW books and magazines. It was like being brainwashed.  
What i cannot understand is some people on here know that the GB and the Watchtower / JW Org are wrong, but they stay in the JW org.  They must have their reasons for staying in but i could not do it.