JOHN BUTLER

Haven't you finished that yet. Must be a big un. 

I am glad that JWI is here to do the heavy lifting .... I am building a chicken coop and run for 18 chickens, and I am pooped.

Don't believe everything you hear, read and see :)))) 

Ok back from travels, so continued reply to Tom's questions.
When @JW Insider reveals a matter that would otherwise remain confidential, do you rush straight to your keyboard and tell your 900 friends?
No, I mainly upload 'news articles' direct as i find them. But the reason for starting the FB page was to get opinions from others. It hasn't happened much. But I'm not in need of 'limelight' by giving information that others don't have. I just make available on the page things that are general news items. I also advertise this forum in the hope that more people will visit here. 
 Did you make it when the opportunity was ripe? Did your testimony send school and/or government perpetrators  to jail? I hope you had that opportunity and I hope you came to enjoy some sense of justice because of it. 
I contacted Reading Council (using the Data Protection Act) and obtained some personal details of my time in the Home, but much of it was 'detracted', is that the right word, scribbled out anyway with black print. One page was completely blacked out. But I was told I had to use the 'Freedom of Information Act' to obtain details about other people / staff that ran the home at that time. However to gain that info' I had to attend the office, ask for files, find sections that were relevant, and inwardly digest the words, because I would not be allowed to copy, photograph or write notes concerning that information. That would involve a 130 mile trip to Reading, a stay overnight or two, and for what, just  read the info and not record it. 
Then the worse thing happened, the Jimmy Savile scandal started. It was all over the news about how he had abused children etc. It began to involve more 'well known' people and just escalated... So I stopped my investigation into the Children's Home staff etc, as it would have looked as if I was just jumping on the bandwagon. I know I should have done it all many years earlier but I didn't, and I wanted to do as much investigating myself as I could. So I never completed that 'mission'. Since the Jimmy Savile situation the Child Abuse investigations have grown more and more, about different people in different situations, including in religions. 
Do you also make clear that your hair-trigger sensitivity on this issue has nothing to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses?
If ever I talk to people about my past situation I do make it perfectly clear that it did not involve Jehovah's Witnesses. 
However, the link is that whilst I was still in a vulnerable state mentally / emotionally, I joined the JW organisation as it 'seemed' a safe and loving environment. It turns out that at that time, late 60's / early 70's, in some places, the Org was at its worst regarding Child Sexual Abuse. Many of the cases that have come into courts and are still coming into courts around the globe,  seem to centre around that era. 
But having been on here a while now, I have read comments from people that have also known about more recent cases. So although many of those cases are 'old news' it does not mean that it has all stopped. 
Hopefully that answers your questions @TrueTomHarley

It obviously means different things in different contexts.
'All scripture is inspired of God' should mean that all scripture was written under the direct inspiration from God. 
However the question has been raised as to whether the writer was inspired generally or just during the time of doing the writing. 
My point would be that if All Scripture was written under inspiration, then it would also take God's inspiration to understand it. And, if the first century Christian leaders were either inspired generally or inspired when they took specific action, then the 'modern day' Christian leaders would also need to be inspired generally or inspired when they took specific action.
The GB say they are not inspired.  

Even when the call has gone well, I tell Tom Pearlsandswine upon my return to the car: ‘I can’t believe that fellow could not see that Jesus and God are different!’
I watch his ears redden. I savor the moment. I know his thoughts:
‘You kept me waiting 45 MINUTES so you could blow times arguing the Trinity?!”

If he sells a lot of books for the prices he asks, it was a significant loss for the brothers. I should hire him as my business advisor. (The batsh*t crazy fellow who said he placed literature and then returned to caution against reading it said of my books: “out of your 4 books....you have given away more than you have sold, lets leave that there (how do i know that?)” 
“Possibly because the two with the most obvious appear plainly say that they are free,” I replied. 
Maybe I was too hard on him. I don’t even know him. I felt a little mean just after I posted what I did. Maybe I should regard him as a noble fellow whose conscience is just too pure to allow himself to be among people who can sully theirs working with imperfection.
I didn’t even explain what I meant by ‘he wants to see the faith become a museum piece.’ I am inventing a picture of what I think he must be like, based on the few factoids I know of him, and deciding that I do not like him at all. Maybe I should not spin him at all as just another malcontent as was a dime a dozen during Moses’ time and that of the apostles who spins his disgruntlement as ‘taking the high road.’
It’s not personal. If he doesn’t represent the type of person I mean, someone else does.

If I was you, TTH, I would worry less about Gregg G. Stafford's efforts to turn Jehovah's Witnesses' life, culture, and theology into museum pieces, and more about the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses doing just that.
The efforts of the GB cause millions of people to "come into the Truth", but they also chase millions of people away, after they do.
It's like a person who makes his fortune in New York City, and finds that the City and State do not consider him to be a citizen, as much as they consider him a cash cow.
There is nothing more portable than people with money who are tired of being treated badly by State and local governing bodies, and when they find they have no voice at all to protest this treatment, they realize that they can vote with their feet, and take their wallets with them, leaving the States and Cities to become museum pieces in a slow, tragic death spiral. 
Detroit is a classic example ...one of many.
The same is becoming more and more true about Jehovah's Witnesses, who often, unless they are mindless sycophants,  chafe and tire of the uninspired and erroneous, and heavy handed (in a silk glove) treatment they get in pursuing equity and Justice, and Truth.
So ... they take the Truth they have with them, and their wallets with them, like spilled gold dust disappearing  through cracks in the floor.
They too ... vote with their feet ... and their wallets ... leaving the Organization to be surrounded with sycophants, admiring their Telly Awards, and cartoon evangelizers.
"We have seen the Enemy" .... and He is Us"   -   Pogo
 
( The reason I stay, is I have a very high pain tolerance, and expect nothing from anybody ... and $30 every few months  is all I can afford, and I allocate that to "local needs".)
 

Ok back from travels, so continued reply to Tom's questions.
When @JW Insider reveals a matter that would otherwise remain confidential, do you rush straight to your keyboard and tell your 900 friends?
No, I mainly upload 'news articles' direct as i find them. But the reason for starting the FB page was to get opinions from others. It hasn't happened much. But I'm not in need of 'limelight' by giving information that others don't have. I just make available on the page things that are general news items. I also advertise this forum in the hope that more people will visit here. 
 Did you make it when the opportunity was ripe? Did your testimony send school and/or government perpetrators  to jail? I hope you had that opportunity and I hope you came to enjoy some sense of justice because of it. 
I contacted Reading Council (using the Data Protection Act) and obtained some personal details of my time in the Home, but much of it was 'detracted', is that the right word, scribbled out anyway with black print. One page was completely blacked out. But I was told I had to use the 'Freedom of Information Act' to obtain details about other people / staff that ran the home at that time. However to gain that info' I had to attend the office, ask for files, find sections that were relevant, and inwardly digest the words, because I would not be allowed to copy, photograph or write notes concerning that information. That would involve a 130 mile trip to Reading, a stay overnight or two, and for what, just  read the info and not record it. 
Then the worse thing happened, the Jimmy Savile scandal started. It was all over the news about how he had abused children etc. It began to involve more 'well known' people and just escalated... So I stopped my investigation into the Children's Home staff etc, as it would have looked as if I was just jumping on the bandwagon. I know I should have done it all many years earlier but I didn't, and I wanted to do as much investigating myself as I could. So I never completed that 'mission'. Since the Jimmy Savile situation the Child Abuse investigations have grown more and more, about different people in different situations, including in religions. 
Do you also make clear that your hair-trigger sensitivity on this issue has nothing to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses?
If ever I talk to people about my past situation I do make it perfectly clear that it did not involve Jehovah's Witnesses. 
However, the link is that whilst I was still in a vulnerable state mentally / emotionally, I joined the JW organisation as it 'seemed' a safe and loving environment. It turns out that at that time, late 60's / early 70's, in some places, the Org was at its worst regarding Child Sexual Abuse. Many of the cases that have come into courts and are still coming into courts around the globe,  seem to centre around that era. 
But having been on here a while now, I have read comments from people that have also known about more recent cases. So although many of those cases are 'old news' it does not mean that it has all stopped. 
Hopefully that answers your questions @TrueTomHarley

Inspired ....spirit-driven.... spirit-guided.....motivated.....to have spirit of....lead up by spirit....to feel that spirit leads us ..... spirit impelled him .... he came in the spirit....sent out by the spirit....spirit did not permit them.....bound by the spirit...he was in the spirit....carried him away in the spirit... and many more other phrases in the Bible.
Why JW's mostly, generally think that "inspiration" is action reserved only to JHVH and Jesus or devil and demons?
"Inspiration" is state/condition of some person soul, mind and emotions.  The biblical / religious state of inspiration comes mainly out of the will of the people. But do you think how this is something that can be  achieved/put on/force upon only by the actions of superhuman powers?
JW's are very occupied with their religion in own life and have specific relationship to this word and have specific (organizational) understanding of the concept about this special word - inspired. They think, I think that they do think :)), about this word only in religious sense and consider how it is about or only about some sort of divinity or divine holiness (or devil evil) in background.
Because they attach great importance to this word in only one direction, they forget that there is also a very powerful influence of another force. It's the spirit of man. JW's must recall themselves more often that people are created on the image of God. And that all people in themselves have a strong spirit (of divine source by birth and genetically inherited). This human spirit is powerful and can inspire other people (earthly spirits) around them. You, as individual can be inspired by people around you or by people about whom you hear about, you are watching, you read about. 
Also it is interesting how some other things can inspire people. For example; nature, music, poetry, stories, events, animals, imagination.
Please, join to this topic and give, express your thoughts. Let your spirit free and let's inspire others :)))
 

When @JW Insider reveals a matter that would otherwise remain confidential, do you rush straight to your keyboard and tell your 900 friends?
And when you do, do you spin it as I have seen you spin it so many times before? He makes clear that he regards as a rare occurrence whatever he reveals, and you spin it as though it is business as usual among Jehovah’s Witnesses?
On your Facebook page, do you also post the background that you have bravely posted  here, background that accounts for your extreme sensitivity on the subject:
It doesn’t disqualify you from speaking. A victim statement is these days considered an essential part—even the highlight—of any trial. Did you make it when the opportunity was ripe? Did your testimony send school and/or government perpetrators  to jail? I hope you had that opportunity and I hope you came to enjoy some sense of justice because of it.
I also hope it is the case that you were not denied that opportunity/justice somehow, and so you are taking it out on people that have nothing whatsoever to do with your tragic past.
At any rate, it is a serious question. Just as a professional can be expected to display their credentials, do you display your ‘credentials’ that give you a special sensitivity to the crime? Do you also make clear that your hair-trigger sensitivity on this issue has nothing to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses?

I do agree. Or at least, I do not deny.
If opponents want to take credit, why not give it to them? Everything in life is action/reaction. If this is one of the same, they can rightly pat themselves on the back.
I acknowledged the point here: (I also posted this on the forum, but it is just so easier to find it again on my own site):
https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/02/the-reproach-of-child-sexual-abuse-falls-on-the-abu.html

@TrueTomHarley  Um, the GB / org do not do social media, ok. But they do broadcasts.
But I'm sure I've seen evidence that when people want to talk to the GB face to face, to ask questions ect, the GB have refused interviews and conversations.  The GB seem to live behind locked gates. So how is a person to express their feelings or ask questions ?  Obvious answer is social media.  
Plus, many of us feel the need to warn other people about the dangers of the JW Org. Where is better than social media ? 
My FB page about Ex JW's has just reached :-  You've just reached 900 Page likes. Good job!
It's not a lot but i don't promote it and hardly upload anything to it. People are finding it. People are talking about it, so it does a small amount of good. If I can give a few people a little information about the problems in the JW Org the n I'm happy to do just that. 
We can agree on this one thing  “wisdom is proved righteous by its works.” Hence its easy to see that the GB are not wise in a spiritual way.  Of course they may have the 'wisdom of the world' with their high paid Lawyers doing their dirty work for them, just as the Romans did the dirty work for the religious leaders of the Jews, buy killing Jesus. 
Quote : The common view of opposers is that the Witness headship is telling members what to do,.... 
Tom, do you really forget that most people you call 'opposers' are actually Ex JW's ?  They have been there, witnessed it all. It's not hearsay it's real experiences. You know, more real than those 'experiences' they do on the 'platform'.  Who are you trying to fool  Tom ? Yourself maybe. 

work alongside people we don't necessarily trust. Children do it all the time. Some people say Look at those children playing together', but when you look closely you will see children playing alongside each other. Each child is doing their own thing.   
The secret is not to get emotional about it. Life can be very practical. Being retired I can choose what I do and when I do it. My wife chooses what she will do and when she will do it. Sometimes we choose to go places together. We share the housework. She cooks I wash up. She visits her mum and the children, i work on the cars and do the garden :) 
None of it involves trust or love. It is just practical living. 
As for people outside, I have no need to trust anyone, I'm quite independent at the moment.  Mixing with people does not involve trust. I go to auctions to view and sometimes buy,  i converse with the staff and others there but it does not involve trust. 
Think deeply for a while, how many things truly involve trust? Most things in life are just practical or natural things. 

@BillyTheKid46 Quote  " The irony, you attack the GB when your heart in no better than the soulless being you present, not just here but elsewhere. "
The difference being that i don't pretend to know the truth, and i don't want power over others. I don't make rules for others to follow. I do not mislead anyone as I do not try to 'take the lead' in any way. 
I do not pretend that i am the 'Faithful and discreet slave' of God through Christ. 
And I'm not frightened to admit that i have no love or trust in anyone. 
But then i don't hide pedophiles either, and I don't tell people how tight or loose their clothes should be. I don't make up rules about who can speak to who. I don't write magazines that tell deliberate lies about what God requires of us. I don't make up rules about the use of blood and then change those rules at a later date. 
I am only responsible for me. Your GB has made itself responsible for millions of people, but they have no proof that the responsibility is guided by God or Christ. 
Your GB has no love of people, only love of power over people. Your GB does not care about the victims of Child Sexual Abuse, they only care about 'their' money being spent in compensation. 
Your GB is prepared to sacrifice innocent lives to cover up the wickedness of the W/t and the JW Org.
Your GB 'cleans the outside of the dish or bowl, but leaves the inside full of disgusting things'.
And you Billy just worship your GB so much that you are completely blind to it all.
 

@TrueTomHarley  Um, the GB / org do not do social media, ok. But they do broadcasts.
But I'm sure I've seen evidence that when people want to talk to the GB face to face, to ask questions ect, the GB have refused interviews and conversations.  The GB seem to live behind locked gates. So how is a person to express their feelings or ask questions ?  Obvious answer is social media.  
Plus, many of us feel the need to warn other people about the dangers of the JW Org. Where is better than social media ? 
My FB page about Ex JW's has just reached :-  You've just reached 900 Page likes. Good job!
It's not a lot but i don't promote it and hardly upload anything to it. People are finding it. People are talking about it, so it does a small amount of good. If I can give a few people a little information about the problems in the JW Org the n I'm happy to do just that. 
We can agree on this one thing  “wisdom is proved righteous by its works.” Hence its easy to see that the GB are not wise in a spiritual way.  Of course they may have the 'wisdom of the world' with their high paid Lawyers doing their dirty work for them, just as the Romans did the dirty work for the religious leaders of the Jews, buy killing Jesus. 
Quote : The common view of opposers is that the Witness headship is telling members what to do,.... 
Tom, do you really forget that most people you call 'opposers' are actually Ex JW's ?  They have been there, witnessed it all. It's not hearsay it's real experiences. You know, more real than those 'experiences' they do on the 'platform'.  Who are you trying to fool  Tom ? Yourself maybe. 

work alongside people we don't necessarily trust. Children do it all the time. Some people say Look at those children playing together', but when you look closely you will see children playing alongside each other. Each child is doing their own thing.   
The secret is not to get emotional about it. Life can be very practical. Being retired I can choose what I do and when I do it. My wife chooses what she will do and when she will do it. Sometimes we choose to go places together. We share the housework. She cooks I wash up. She visits her mum and the children, i work on the cars and do the garden :) 
None of it involves trust or love. It is just practical living. 
As for people outside, I have no need to trust anyone, I'm quite independent at the moment.  Mixing with people does not involve trust. I go to auctions to view and sometimes buy,  i converse with the staff and others there but it does not involve trust. 
Think deeply for a while, how many things truly involve trust? Most things in life are just practical or natural things. 

This may actually mean 900 people, but I would not get too excited. Some of these characters have been known to press the like key as frequently as Skinner box rats, working themselves into a lather and eventually dropping out of sheer exhaustion.

Literalness. Unlike paraphrased translations, the New World Translation renders words literally as long as doing so does not result in awkward wording or hide the thought of the original writings. Translations that paraphrase the Bible’s original text may insert human opinions or omit important details.
Um, I think this has been disproved. I think the word BIAS comes in somewhere. 

Ohh, sorry JW Insider, but they had not needed to made specific naming, numbering was/were some specific work, action and move that organization and leading people inside it had made, was been spirit-directed. ....
Because..... the whole organization with all guardians of doctrine who has made approval, gave green light for, of every Bible edition ......  is spirit-directed......supposedly.

You mean your work (as single, not as we)  can accomplish some good ?  :))
I think how in this complexity of Trust Issue (on various fields, in various places and with various people) things are in so wide specter of colors with much/lot, lot of white and black too.  
But, main thing is thus, if you not trust someone , or have lost your trust in someone ... wall is very big/high.

No. His name came up yesterday in this thread or another ongoing one. It was many years that I emailed him to ask if he was actually a Witness, and he said then that he was and in good standing. I’ve no idea whether that is still the case.
His answer is different from mine when the malcontents on Twitter keep asking me whether I am a Witness or not, and I answer with “neither am I telling you by what authority I do these things.”
People are incredible. They think that they can slam you anonymously—and all that you stand for—and then expect you to be forthcoming with personal details upon request. “You yourself are saying it” is another answer that works well. 
They have pretty well decided that I am not, due to their own paranoia that if a Witness so much as strays one inch from “orders,” he is immediately drawn and quartered. I have said such things as: 
“I asked a similar question about the liar who represented himself on Twitter as Geoffrey Jackson (and Anthony Morris): ‘Is he really a Witness?’ It seemed like it should have been a very easy question to answer. So I asked him. He said that he was!”
and
”If you go online to flame them, [JWs] while still claiming to be a Witness, you may have trouble. Drop the claim, and you can flame them all you want.
If you explode in rage at counsel not to get into cat fights, you may have trouble.
But if you write a book letting the air out of their complaints, will you? Time will tell.
Do you really truly in your paranoid heart of hearts, think that nobody knows of the book—when you are the first to decry them for sticking their nose everywhere?”
At such times, I link to the book, TrueTom vs the Apostates!”
The book itself alludes a few times to the question, such as:
And now I must face the music from my own side, and there may be some. His continual taunts at being “not allowed” were surely overdone, and it must have made him feel a little silly when I kept coming nonetheless, until he felt compelled to “not allow” me himself. Still, nobody here thinks it is the bee’s knees to engage with these characters, and I may hear about it. And they could be right. Maybe I am the yo-yo on the Jerusalem wall singing out just when Hezekiah is telling the troops to zip it. But I just couldn’t take it anymore.
The Witness organization cannot be expected to defend itself on social media, if on any media. It takes the scriptural view of Jesus at Matthew 11, noting that grumblers slam him no matter what he does, before finally saying, ‘Don’t worry about it,’ “wisdom is proved righteous by its works.” It is like David who kept mum as ‘all day long they muttered against him.’ ‘It is like the plowman who knows that if you look behind while plowing, the furrows get all flaky.’ They don’t do it. The common view of opposers is that the Witness headship is telling members what to do, while it cynically manipulates all from above. That view is wrong. They practice what they preach and they do it themselves. The organization headship cites Hebrews 13:7 about ‘imitating the faith of those who are taking the lead among you.’ They don’t go on social media at all. They prefer a less raucous channel, and content themselves with news releases at the website that inform but do not kick back at the critics.
It is scriptural. It is proper. But there is a downside. By staying mum on specifics, essentially our enemies get to define us to the news media who refer to a cover statement about “abhorring child abuse” as “boiler-plate” and then go to former members who will eagerly fill their ears with accounts that we could counter by adding context but don’t. What’s a reporter to do? He goes to who fills his ears.
It will fall upon the Witness journalist to do it, if it is to be done, and there aren’t many of them. If fourteen years of blogging, not shying from controversial things, does not qualify me to take a shot at it, what does? If you are in a spiritual paradise, or even a vacation paradise, you do not have to concern yourself with removing the trash. It may be even dangerous to do so, because there is broken glass and used syringes. It’s not for everyone, and maybe for no one. But I thought I’d give it a go, and I at last got under this fellow’s skin, the big baby.
This was in the chapter ‘Banned From the Apostate Website!”
Of course, I am using Greg as a pretext to launch my own diatribe. I have no idea of where he is now (as I didn’t then), or whether he is friend or foe. Hope he doesn’t mind. Most authors enjoy publicity—almost any publicity will do, and mine of him is not bad. It is merely inconclusive.

Ok... here goes:
I officially recognize BTK46 as the BEST scholar in this group! (seriously...)
But his perspective is so screwed up he misinterprets EVERYTHING!
... it's like a child having a beautiful, playful, happy,  expensive pure-bred AKC registered puppy ....
... and he EATS it!
 

@JW Insider  Quote "Those who have seen the evil in people up close and personally may actually have a keener "intuitive" sense of potential evil. Or perhaps that "intuitive" sense has been destroyed for the same reasons. I have no idea, so I am not trying to answer John directly on this topic."
In a nutshell. I suffered 3½ years of sexual abuse, physical abuse and emotional abuse in a Children's Home, from age 13 to 16½. It was suffer and keep quiet, or be moved into an Approved School, which i was assured was 10 times worse.  We didn't have sex education back then so i was very nieve, and I was under the 'care' of the council (local government) so could not just walk away from it. I could not report it to the police as they were all part of the same system and i would have been 'moved'.  

@JW Insider  Quote "Those who have seen the evil in people up close and personally may actually have a keener "intuitive" sense of potential evil. Or perhaps that "intuitive" sense has been destroyed for the same reasons. I have no idea, so I am not trying to answer John directly on this topic."
In a nutshell. I suffered 3½ years of sexual abuse, physical abuse and emotional abuse in a Children's Home, from age 13 to 16½. It was suffer and keep quiet, or be moved into an Approved School, which i was assured was 10 times worse.  We didn't have sex education back then so i was very nieve, and I was under the 'care' of the council (local government) so could not just walk away from it. I could not report it to the police as they were all part of the same system and i would have been 'moved'.