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JOHN BUTLER

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  1. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to TrueTomHarley in I'm worried about a 'brother' recently reinstated spending too much time with my grandchildren   
    This is apocryphal but I think true, since there are not many degrees of separation:
    Many years ago waiting for the pioneer meeting to get underway, some of us young pioneers started commenting on nightmare scenarios—like witnessing to super-patriot John Wayne. He probably would sic his Rottweilers on us!
    The circuit overseer interjected that it was not so. In a circuit he had once served, a brother had called upon John Wayne, who could not have been more kind or more respectful, even saying that he knew that what they had was true, but that he would never be able to live up to it.
    Now (and this is my speculation years later) where could he have gotten such a good impression of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
    ”I played in a movie called Ring of Fear …..This was where I got the Jag. The guy wrote and directed the picture had problems, but John Wayne who produced it, never gave up on his friends. Duke was having a bad time, going through a divorce, and they needed to fix the script. So they're thinking who could do it, and someone says, Spillane's a writer, he could do it. Now I'm playing ME in the picture, for pete's sake. They called me up in Newburgh on Wednesday, I'm already back home across the country, and said come back and fix it. So I took my Wagner records, flew West, and worked Friday, Saturday, Sunday. They set me up in a beautiful hotel suite, and I worked. …..And they wanta pay me for the script but I won't take nothing for that, it was a favour. But Duke says, 'he was looking at those Jags in the lot next to the Cock and Bull'. One night, I'm back in Newburgh, it's snowing, and out in front of my house is this beautiful Jag with a red ribbon around it, and a note that says 'Thanks, Duke'.” - Mickey Spillane
     
     
  2. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to TrueTomHarley in The Incredible Desert Find: the Sinaiticus Sheepngoats, Destined to Update the Bible Canon   
    Whenever a new version of Scripture appears that is colloquialized, paraphrased, or just plain dumbed down, the refrain is heard: “If it gets modern people to read God’s Word, it is worth it.” How far you want to take this trend is anyone’s guess. Suffice it to say that the Sinaiticus Sheepngoats pushes the boundaries as they have never been pushed before. It is an incredible find from the dry desert where it has been preserved for thousands of years. (though there are a few critics at the Whitepebble Institute who claim it has only been around two weeks and was discovered in the glove box of Harley’s car)
    And yet—and yet—though it takes outrageous liberties and outright manufactures a few things, it does serve to convey the basic idea of the entire Book of Galatians. Is it right to spoil the book for everyone else in the course of getting a good grasp of it yourself? Your guess is as good as mine.
    Anyway, here is the text of the Sinaiticus Sheepngoats edition of Galatians:
    Chapter 1
    Dear Galatians: Hi. Remember me? It’s Paul. How are you? (1:1-5)
    The reason I say ‘remember me’ is because I’m not sure that you do! I can’t believe how quickly you are screwing up! Is that chair I used to sit in even cold yet? What is this about louts trying to change the whole narrative? They’re not allowed to do that! Look, even angels are not allowed to do that! (6-9)
    You remember what a jerk I was. Nobody made more trouble for you than me. But after God let me hear about it right there on the Damascus road and that other fellow was sent so that I could see again, I went off to Arabia for three years to think about it. (13-17)
    Then I came back to Jerusalem and stayed with Peter for a couple of weeks. But no one else—wait, I did see James, but none of the others. Then I went off again. What! You think I am fibbing? For years and years, had you asked those apostles about me, they would have said, “I dunno. Your guess is as good as mine. He used to be the nastiest fellow. Now it looks as though he is on our side. Cool! We’ll take it!” (18-24)
    Chapter 2
    About 14 years later I figured that maybe I had better give those guys a call. I had Barnabas with me by then, and Titus—fine fellows. I met with them privately, of course, just in case I was not doing something—um, kosher. “You okay with this?” I said to them. “You’re not going to make Titus do that Jewish thing, are you? I don’t see any need for it.” They didn’t either! (2:1-3)
    It probably wouldn’t even have come up were it not for those pinheaded louts trying to drag us down, wanting us to everything Jewish that we don’t have to do anymore. We blew right past them, and it was for your sake just as much as for ours. (4-5)
    Okay, so I consulted with these ones—I mean, I guess they are important. I wondered if they might try to rein me in, but no!—they said, “Whatever you are doing, keep on doing it. We’ll stick with preaching to Jews, but you—I mean, Peter unlocked that door for the nations, so go for it! Just don’t ignore the poor.” Sure, I can do that. (6-10)
    But then Peter came calling later on and suddenly he himself goes all Jewish on me. Oh, sure, he pals around with these new Gentile Christians easy enough, but when his buddies show up, he acts like he doesn’t know them. I said, “I don’t believe it! Here you are living the free life, telling others to be like that, and then the narrow-minded fuddy duddies show up and you get all scaredy cat? (11-14)
    Yeah, well he’s a good sort, but he goes a little weak at the knees sometimes. You don’t have to do any of that Jewish stuff! What do you think the Lord is for? (15-21)
    Chapter 3
    What on earth is wrong with you? How can you be so dumb? You break free but then turn around and go back because you forgot your leg irons? Are you kidding me? (3:1-5)
    Don’t pull this Abraham stuff on me. Wait, no. If you want to talk Abraham, let’s talk Abraham. You think he earned anything? No! He “put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” THAT’S what you want to take away from Abraham—his faith, and how he pointed the way for other people to have faith. Not the later Law—that Law did nothing but show you up for the basket cases that you were! Did you manage to keep it? No! All you did was screw up. That’s why when Christ comes along, you are supposed to say, “Exactly what we need! Thank you, thank you, thank you. (6-11)
    You don’t go back to the Law again—what’s wrong with you? The Law has nothing to do with faith. Christ pulled us out of that—THAT’S what Abraham was pointing to, and you want to dive back in again? (12-14)
    Okay, now look—let’s take this real slow. Take notes if it will help. So Abraham gets a promise that means the Christ will come through his lineup, but how does the Law figure in? It comes 430 years later. Does it change his promise? I don’t think so. (15-18)
    Why the Law? It’s because you guys kept messing up, that’s why. And it was supposed to dawn on you that you DID keep messing up and that you’re never (and yes—me, too) going to come out like the champion of Jeopardy. You weren’t supposed to think that dotting all the ‘I’s and crossing all the ‘T’s would get you there—besides, you missed lots of them. (19-22)
    Yes, it gave you something to do and kept you off the streets. But now that the real thing has arrived, you can set down your slates. Class is over. You can join in with that promise to Abraham. (23-29)
    Chapter 4
    It took a long time for you to get to where you are. A lot of work went into it. Don’t mess it up. (4:1-8)
    You had real freedom. I mean, real freedom in Christ. And now you want to become law nerds again and focus on dotting ‘I’s and crossing ‘T’s? Really? What! Do I have a death wish or something? What am I doing this for? (9-11)
    Remember the good times we used to have? Remember how you used to loan me your specs? You didn’t then stick out your foot to trip me up. What’s gotten into you? (12-16)
    Do you think that these pinheaded louts are your friends? They just want to be your bosses. “Meet the new boss—same as the old boss.” (17-20)
    Go back to Abraham, you law nerds, and take a point. Two women, remember? One a concubine, one a wife. Hagar gave birth first because Sarah thought she was too old to have a child. No mystery about how Hagar conceived. You see it all the time on TV. But Sarah! THAT’S where God’s promise came in, and she didn’t even believe herself it could happen until it did! 
    The two women stand for two groups of people. Hagar, the one of ordinary birth, is mother to the ones of Law (that you want go back to!) Sarah, the one of the promise, is mother to the ones putting their faith in Christ. (21-28)
    The Hagar kid made trouble for the Sarah kid back then. It’s the same today with these pinheaded louts trying to force their Law on you. But what does the verse say? “Take this Law and shove it! I ain’t workin here no more!” Keep it that way! (29-31)
    Chapter 5
    You are free from slavery. Don’t go back to it. Or if you do, you’d better not miss a single one of those ‘I’s or ‘T’s. (5:1-6)
    You were doing so well. Who tripped you up? Who made you think you need circumcision? It ain’t me, babe. Those Jews would give me a free pass if they thought I was turning Christianity into just one of their outposts. “Just you wait, enry iggins”—they’ll get theirs. (7-11)
    In fact, I have half a mind to come and kick them in the nuts so hard that they won’t qualify to serve in the temple that they want to drag you into! (12)
    No, brothers, don’t go there. Just don’t. You don’t need their picayune Law. It all boils down to love anyway—that is the greatest part of it—so if you get you head around that, you’ll do just fine. You start nitpicking at each other over every pissy little thing and you’ll tear each other apart! (13-18)
    Don’t do bad things. Do good things. What do you mean, ‘What bad things?’ “No back-biting, no ass-grabbing, you know exactly what I mean!” [thank you, Randy Neuman] It shouldn’t be hard, if you really are following the Christ. Do the best you can, and don’t go thinking that you are better than the other guy. (19-26)
    Chapter 6
    Okay, let’s wrap this up. Don’t be babies—man up, but pull each other out of the crud when you have to (be sure you don’t fall in yourself). (6:1-5)
    Don’t try to Play around with God. You can’t. Keep on keeping on—it will all pay off. Lend a hand where needed. (6-10)
    See the large letters I make, all by myself with my own hand? Why? Because I am blind as a bat—that’s why. I dunno—it comes and goes. That’s why I insulted that pompous character before I knew he was the high priest. I asked God to take it away, but he said, “Nah, it keeps you humble.” And it has. It’s not an altogether bad thing to have a thorn in the flesh. (11)
    Now, remember—they are pinheaded louts trying to lay their Law on you. And why? They’re just chicken themselves—like Peter might have been, but he saw where he was heading and corrected himself. They don’t want to stand out among their cronies, and they want to find strength in numbers by having you do what they do—it will hide their cowardice. What! You think they do the Law themselves? No way! They just want to do some back-stabbing and ass-grabbing themselves and then throw in a gerbil or something for sacrifice to make it all good again. Come on! Please—you are too smart not to see through them. (12-16)
    I’ve suffered for carrying the good news of the Christ. So have you. Don’t turn back to be a law nerd again. Press on ahead. God will back you. So will Christ. (17-18)
    ***
    What a bunch of idiots there at the Whitepebble Institute—tossing this amazing new manuscript in the dumpster! The place has gone right downhill ever since the director, Wayne Whitepebble, took a course on critical thinking and tried to kiss up to the evolutionists by adding an ancient skull to his library alongside the globe and old maps because he heard that is what smart people do but then it turned out that his ancient skull was actually missing evidence in the Mugsy McDougal ax murder case and he got into serious hot water with the authorities.
    Plainly, this new find belongs in the Bible canon.

     
     
  3. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Srecko Sostar in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    Rant? Ohh, i like bigger font to see it better, Not to produce noise and loud talking :)))
    WTJWORG? That is my amalgam for naming two dominant things, components of your Organization, one is Corporation and another is Religion 
    Nature? The type or main characteristic of something
    Did i lost you? :)))) 
  4. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Foreigner in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    @Anna (Children with adoptive parents always want to know, or want to search, for their real parents once they come of age).
    Oh yes and what problems that has caused my wife and I. I'm stepfather to 4 girls. :( 
  5. Haha
  6. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Witness in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    Not necessarily, and we know the prophets gave us insight into the last days.
    Call to me when trouble comes;
        I will save you,
        and you will praise me.”
     But God says to the wicked,
        “Why should you recite my commandments?
        Why should you talk about my covenant?
     You refuse to let me correct you;
        you reject my commands.
     You become the friend of every thief you see,
        and you associate with adulterers.
     “You are always ready to speak evil;
        you never hesitate to tell lies.
     You are ready to accuse your own relatives
      and to find fault with them.
     You have done all this, and I have said nothing,
        so you thought that I am like you.
    But now I reprimand you
        and make the matter plain to you.  Ps 50:14-21
     
    God says,
    “For a long time I kept silent;
        I did not answer my people.
    But now the time to act has come;
      I cry out like a woman in labor.
    I will destroy the hills and mountains
        and dry up the grass and trees.
    I will turn the river valleys into deserts
        and dry up the pools of water.
    “I will lead my blind people
        by roads they have never traveled.
    I will turn their darkness into light
        and make rough country smooth before them.
    These are my promises,
        and I will keep them without fail.
     All who trust in idols,
        who call images their gods,
        will be humiliated and disgraced.”  Isa 42:14-17
     
     
  7. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Anna in I'm worried about a 'brother' recently reinstated spending too much time with my grandchildren   
    Yes. 
    But there is absolutely  nothing wrong with your wife approaching your daughter with concerns about this 'brother', as suggested by TTH:
     
  8. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in I'm worried about a 'brother' recently reinstated spending too much time with my grandchildren   
    My other considered opinion ( and it's worth every cent you paid for it ...) John, is that you have a SERIOUS, almost fatal  deficiency of John Wayne movies.
  9. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in I'm worried about a 'brother' recently reinstated spending too much time with my grandchildren   
    Everybody that is a busybody does not think so ... in their own minds.
    Was it Shakespeare in "Henry V" that told of King Henry walking among his soldiers in disguise, at night, to listen to their campfire talk, in the unwarranted invasion of France, and one soldier said to another " I hope our Sovereign is doing the right thing, as we have to obey him, but he will answer to God for what we do, here" (heavily paraphrased from memory ....)
    Or, as Yoda said "There is only do ...or do not.   There is no try!"
    (My advice is ...)  Either GO TO WAR ... OR RETIRE FROM THE FIELD !
    If you do decide to go to war ... be prepared to lose, badly.
    THERE IS ONLY ONE EXCUSE FOR BEING A "BUSYBODY" !
    ..... if you win.
     
  10. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in I'm worried about a 'brother' recently reinstated spending too much time with my grandchildren   
    OK, I know some people will not like this and they will call it gossip but my wife and I are worried about it so it needs to aired out.
    We have one daughter that is still a JW. i will call her H.  She is married to a non JW. She has 4 children.
    This daughter does not seem to recognise any dangers at all about her children. She invites anyone to her house without really knowing who they are or anything about their past.
    3 of the children are girls and they attend ballet and tap dance lessons. They are only young, the oldest being around 8 years old. 
    Today they were in a performance /show in Exeter, a biggish show that their teacher was putting on for all parents, grandparents, etc. 
    I wasn't allowed to go of course as I'm a 'naughty boy' that left the Org.
    My wife went to the show and was surprised to find two 'brothers' there.
    One of the 'brothers' is a young single Elder and the other 'brother' is an old man that has recently been reinstated and moved into Honiton congregation.  
    This older man frequently visits H and her daughters at their home and the girls call him Uncle Phil. He seems very 'friendly' toward the girls.
    H does not know where this 'brother' is from but he is now part of the Honiton Congregation which H and her children attend, here in Devon. 
    It seems strange to me that this man has just arrived at Honiton Congregation and just been reinstated. My wife says he has a London accent. 
    If I were still a JW I would ask him bluntly why he was disfellowshipped and where he is from, but of course I cannot do that now.
    I have his full name, so is there any way i can run a check on him ? 
    Should i contact an Elder at Honiton Congregation and tell them of the concern my wife and I have ? 
    If this 'brother' had been involved in a child abuse accusation would they have told H about it so that she could be on her guard ? 
    Some on here may think I'm just trying to cause trouble, but my wife came home this evening and is looking very worried. 
    It seems that H had invited both 'brothers' to the meal afterward and my wife felt unhappy about the whole situation. 
    TTH will probably bring out the rule book again and say 'it never happens', but child abuse does happen and needs to be looked for all the time. 
    Our daughter H seems to have no idea about the situations that have taken place, and in honesty she doesn't want to know. So how can my wife warn her ?  
     
     
     
     
  11. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in I'm worried about a 'brother' recently reinstated spending too much time with my grandchildren   
    He might be, he might not be. But I'm just grandad that is left on the sidelines and I suppose it looks as if I'm bitter about it. 
    So do I just mind my own business, or is it my business ? 
  12. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in I'm worried about a 'brother' recently reinstated spending too much time with my grandchildren   
    Sure ... just type his full name and anything else you know about him into google, and for about $30, you can know almost everything there is to know about him.
    Be careful which firm you choose ... about 60% of them are scams.
  13. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    The way I see it, Jehovah has an abundance of love about the things he cares about, and actually needs NOTHING from us.
    Nothing whatsoever.  
    It's like my 18 pet Bantam chickens ... (who I just finished feeding a whole banana split down the middle, a large handful of broccoli, and two giant strawberries, and gave them more commercial chicken feed, and clean water ....).
    I want the very best for them, but in reality need NOTHING from them. I am not going to eat the eggs, or the chickens.  They are just fun to watch grow and interact with me and my wife, and each other.   There is no point whatsoever to it ... other than me watch them enjoy their short (about 6 years) life.
    Jehovah does not get pouty, and petulant, and get depressed when we do not love him.
    ... think not about pettiness and pouty .... think Poultry !
    It's just like the Sabbath.
    The Sabbath regulation was made for mankind .... mankind was NOT made for the Sabbath.
    Jehovah will not get his feelings hurt, and start hurling lightning bolts, or go in the corner, and cry because we are not giving him enough adoration.
    HE ENCOURAGES ADORATION ONLY BECAUSE IT REPROGRAMS US NOT TO BE SO NASTY AND SELF CENTERED! ( ... with some notable exceptions ...)
    Not because He needs adoration !
     
     
  14. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    ... and I worry not that Billy or Foreigner down votes EVERYTHING that does not fit their corporate agendas ... eventually they will run out of drool, and when they sleep, the other eye stops twitching.
  15. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    @Srecko Sostar That is a fantastic comment. Thank you for the thought you have put into that.
    Billy the Kid obviously feels the lack of love for him, and so has to downvote you. 
    We all need love and maybe God needs love from humans as you say.  
    It does seem strange that God demanded love from the Nation of Israel. 
    I have said previously that the Jews were in a much different situation to us. The Jews were born into the Law and had to serve God, whereas we can chose to serve God or not. 
  16. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    The 2017 Declaration is as close of an apology as one will ever get from the Governing Body for 100 and more years of being clueless busybodies, screwing with people's lives.
  17. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Srecko Sostar in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    Thank you John! 
    Yeah, thoughts that circled in my mind about this in recent years, made me to think how God "desperately" need love from creatures He brought to existence - Humans (and Angels).
    In case of old Jew, he incorporated, built this in legislative. I wander why. Because, from our present time aspects, perspective and after Jesus' Teachings, all is in free will, free wish, to respect, to serving god "from Love". Idea of Love including Free Choice. Because without such freedom to make decision of that sort/ thing,  seems questionable, to me at least.
     Love is Best, Ultimate, Perfect, Divine state of Soul. That is, i don't know, but i guess, Maximum what we can achieved in lifetime.
    For me, God looking for such Love. He needs that Love. What would happened if we don't give Him Love?
  18. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    Actually BtK it's you that don't get it. 
    Your GB are trying to shift the blame onto the congregants by saying it was the congregants that didn't understand it right. 
    Today, the faithful and discreet slave sometimes helps us to understand a teaching in the Bible in a way that is different from what we thought before. We should be happy about these changes. 
    And as @Srecko Sostar said it wasn't  WE that thought it in a wrong way, it was your GB. 
    Wake up Billy. 
  19. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Srecko Sostar in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    ahahaha.  This statement made it clear how FDS thought was different in the past and they changed that thought today. It is not about what WE (JW's rank and file members) thought before. It is all about Them aka GB of WTJWORG. :))
  20. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Srecko Sostar in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    @BillyTheKid46
    Are you on crusade with downvotes this evening ? :))))
  21. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Srecko Sostar in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    If you don't mind i would like to say my opinion and some short thoughts about this interesting and perhaps important issue, if not for all people but maybe for some. 
    If we go from premise how God is perfect and self sufficient in all things, than we maybe may take this strong and clear view, you said, as final thing, and stop right there. That reaction, of course, would not erase possibility to ask some questions. Or at least One question which will Shake this sort of idea you presented.
    What is that question? You can find this, not only interesting question, but in fact crucial, life important question, in God's command, request. This was expressed in verses:
       “Hear, O Israel: [a]The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.  - Deuteronomy book   
    Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. - Mathew book
    If you put attention on Jew Law you will notice how Law said, among many other things that are OBLIGATIONS, Love is something that a person feels morally or legally forced to do!  
    Imagine, God command you to love him! I ask you and anyone else: Can you love somebody, anyone on command???!! 
    On one side, this same God give you free will, and filled you with various emotions. You have Mind and have freedom to choose and God respect your choice. Does  Emotions have not that same freedom? 
    As next argument in, for, this same issue we find this Bible statement: So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. - Genesis book
    People would agree in interpretation how this means that God transferred His attributes to humans. Among them is Love. Humans imitate, expressed God's attributes in their life. Love and hate, creating and destroying, smiling and crying and so on. While doing this, humans also have Big Need to Be Loved. If they are Not Loved things coming to be bad, behavior changes, interactions are problematic and other things are happens.
    In this period when there is Lack of Love, when is Time Without Love, in both direction, no matter is it problem that You Do Not Give Love or Other Don't Give Their Love, YOU/WE FEEL UNHAPPY. 
    Well, because all this i think that you missed to see some things, when you gave unmistakable stated view about significance/importance of Love - Humans - God connections, interactions, interdependence. 
     
  22. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    JW's only god is their GB. That is whom they serve, believe and rely on. So yes a very strange god indeed. 
     
  23. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Foreigner in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    @JW Insider  Quote "So, more recently, the Watchtower stopped discounting the idea about the "rapture."  "
    Is this then something else the GB / Writing dept / W/t have changed their minds about. In fact changed meaning of scripture ?  
    In honesty how many congregants have a good understanding of all this ? 
    I always thought that all of the Anointed would be in heaven at Armageddon. I don't even remember being taught anything different.  I was taught that as each one of the Anointed died they went immediately to heaven... Then the living ones would be gathered up / taken up before the Judgement started. 
    I'm more confused than ever now :(    Not that i have any faith in Watchtower / GB teachings anyway, but I like to consider all things. 
  24. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Foreigner in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    @BillyTheKid46  Quote "12 The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction.... "
    I added the phrase 'by holy spirit' actually. 
    What else does God use to inspire people or anoint people or for God to work through people, via Jesus Christ  ?
    Matthew 3 v 16
    After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him.17  Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”
    Acts 2 v 3&4.
    And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them,4  and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak.
    Now this becomes even more interesting if we look at the word ERR which the GB or Writing Dept used. Did the GB deliberately use this word err ? Do they understand the implication of it ? 
    err /əː/ verb FORMAL be mistaken or incorrect; make a mistake. "the judge had erred in ruling that the evidence was inadmissible" synonyms: make a mistake, be wrong, be in error, be mistaken, mistake, make a blunder, blunder, be incorrect, be inaccurate, misjudge, miscalculate, get things/something/it wrong, bark up the wrong tree, get the wrong end of the stick, be wide of the mark; More     fail to adhere to the proper or accepted standards; do wrong. "he has erred and strayed as many of us have" synonyms: misbehave, do wrong, go wrong, behave badly, misconduct oneself, be bad, be naughty, get up to mischief, get up to no good, act up, act badly, give someone trouble, cause someone trouble; 
     
    The second meaning seems more likely. 
     Therefore, the GB can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction.... "  It can, do wrong, go wrong, behave badly, misconduct oneself, get up to mischief, and, give some trouble. 
    Yep that sounds right.  The GB, for once, admitting they do wrong. 
     
  25. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Foreigner in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    Are yes but the sinners Christ chose were INSPIRED OF HOLY SPIRIT and Christ FULLY OPENED UP THE SCRIPTURES TO THEM. 
    You cannot say that about your GB as they say they are not inspired of holy spirit and they admit making 'mistakes'. 
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