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JOHN BUTLER

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  1. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Srecko Sostar in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    As i can recall, publications gave few different ideas about this in my life time. 
  2. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to JW Insider in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    *** w54 8/15 p. 502 par. 22 The Power of Hope ***
    While the anointed remnant expect to serve on earth for a period after Armageddon, as it pleases Jehovah, and while the other sheep expect to serve Jehovah without a break in life clear through to the end of this system of things at Armageddon and on into the unending time of the new world, yet death due to natural causes or due to keeping integrity may occur before Armageddon.
    That idea remained "on the books" until about 1990 and was changed in 2013:
    *** w13 7/15 p. 5 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
    : One of the events mentioned in these verses is the ‘gathering of the chosen ones.’ (Matt. 24:31) Hence, it appears that all anointed ones who still remain on earth after the initial part of the great tribulation has passed will at some point be raised to heaven before the outbreak of the battle of Armageddon. This adjusts what was stated on this subject in “Questions From Readers” in The Watchtower of August 15, 1990, page 30.
    Even in 1990 it was admitted that the Bible didn't say one way or the other, but we speculated that it would happen with a few, at least. It was again, partly based on turning Bible narratives into "prophecies" which was beginning to disappear, especially after Fred Franz became ill and was no longer included in Writing Department approvals. Notice how the following article sort of "lets it down easy" on those who once taught (as in Gilead School) that Noah, his wife, his sons, and their wives, all had a parallel to be fulfilled in the New World.
    *** w90 8/15 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***
    Will some anointed Christians survive the “great tribulation” to live on earth in the new world before being taken to heaven?
    Pointedly, the Bible does not say. . . . What of a Bible account that might parallel such survival on earth? One example that has been presented concerns Noah and his family. Noah has been viewed as typifying Jesus in this time of the end. (Genesis 6:8-10; Matthew 24:37) As Noah led his wife and their three sons and daughters-in-law through the end of that ancient system, Christ will provide leadership for the remnant of his bride class and those who become children of the “Eternal Father,” Jesus. Noah’s wife survived the Flood and shared in the renewing of true worship on a cleansed earth. A parallel might be the survival into the new world of a remnant of the bride class.—Isaiah 9:6, 7; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 21:2, 9.
    Other Biblical accounts have also been viewed as suggesting that some of the anointed might live into the new world. For example, Jeremiah survived the destruction of Jerusalem; “the man” with the secretary’s inkhorn remained to see the executional work before he went back to give his report.—Ezekiel 9:4, 8, 11.
    Comments about the possibility that some of the anointed might survive into the new world are made with good intentions and in the light of Biblical precedents for trying to understand prophecies or patterns that could have later parallels. If it turns out that none of the anointed are left on earth, there will be no reason for dissatisfaction. We already have accepted that Biblical matters are understood better as time passes. For instance, The Watchtower of July 15, 1981, discussed Micah 5:6-9 again and explained that “the remnant of spiritual Israelites have not had to wait until after . . . Har–Magedon in order to be as a ‘dew’ of refreshment to people.” This discussion again offered the possibility that the remnant might survive God’s great war and for a while “continue to be as a refreshing ‘dew’ to the ‘great crowd’ of ‘other sheep.’” We can see, though, that the passing of time and the increase in spiritual light can broaden and alter our understanding of prophecy or of Bible dramas.—Proverbs 4:18.
    Notice how these prophetic parallels were again being turned into "interesting possibilities" just like the the 1918 "first resurrection." But they weren't officially dropped, and were still being taught in Gilead School into the 2000's.
  3. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Foreigner in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    @BillyTheKid46  Quote "12 The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction.... "
    I added the phrase 'by holy spirit' actually. 
    What else does God use to inspire people or anoint people or for God to work through people, via Jesus Christ  ?
    Matthew 3 v 16
    After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him.17  Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”
    Acts 2 v 3&4.
    And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them,4  and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak.
    Now this becomes even more interesting if we look at the word ERR which the GB or Writing Dept used. Did the GB deliberately use this word err ? Do they understand the implication of it ? 
    err /əː/ verb FORMAL be mistaken or incorrect; make a mistake. "the judge had erred in ruling that the evidence was inadmissible" synonyms: make a mistake, be wrong, be in error, be mistaken, mistake, make a blunder, blunder, be incorrect, be inaccurate, misjudge, miscalculate, get things/something/it wrong, bark up the wrong tree, get the wrong end of the stick, be wide of the mark; More     fail to adhere to the proper or accepted standards; do wrong. "he has erred and strayed as many of us have" synonyms: misbehave, do wrong, go wrong, behave badly, misconduct oneself, be bad, be naughty, get up to mischief, get up to no good, act up, act badly, give someone trouble, cause someone trouble; 
     
    The second meaning seems more likely. 
     Therefore, the GB can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction.... "  It can, do wrong, go wrong, behave badly, misconduct oneself, get up to mischief, and, give some trouble. 
    Yep that sounds right.  The GB, for once, admitting they do wrong. 
     
  4. Haha
  5. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Srecko Sostar in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    Because i am one of those who are in opposition to WTJWORG ideology (officially from 2015), do you sure about your conclusion how @JW Insider skillfully deceived me to to join him in the same job? :)))
    I have never met JW Insider before this Forum, and we are not in any sort of conspiracy. :))) But, I am gladly to met him and some other participants who gave comments here.   
  6. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Witness in SAME VS. DIFFERENT   
    “Same vs. different” is a typical worksheet handed out to preschool and kindergarten children.  In the pictures below, would you consider them the “same”, or “different”? 
    Watchtower 11/1/1990 p. 26
    LOOKING TO AN ORGANIZATION FOR SALVATION IS... Idolatry

    Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities
    As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization. 


    Kingdom Ministry 11/1990 p. 1
    ONE MUST COME TO THE WATCHTOWER ORGANIZATION FOR SALVATION

    Directing Bible Students to Jehovah’s Organization 
    Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established.  
    Although these two quotes appear to be “different”, they are in fact, the same… hypocrisy. 
    Matt 12:37; John 9:41; Luke 12:1
    Pearl Doxsey ( 4womaninthewilderness), consider “An Illustration/Great Deception”
     
     
     


  7. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Foreigner in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    Are yes but the sinners Christ chose were INSPIRED OF HOLY SPIRIT and Christ FULLY OPENED UP THE SCRIPTURES TO THEM. 
    You cannot say that about your GB as they say they are not inspired of holy spirit and they admit making 'mistakes'. 
  8. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    ...but then again.... this is how Parent birds feed their young ... they go out and eat insects, worms and other "stuff", predigest it, and fly back and vomit it directly into their baby birds throats.
    They are happy to get it, and beg for more.
    Animals often  have no other choice.

  9. Confused
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to JW Insider in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    Good question. I see you are actually thinking about the topic rather than just being pulled down into the squabbling.
    When the end comes, and the judgment comes, we can expect that there will be anointed on earth. To me this seems clear from Paul's account of the end:
    (1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:2) 15 For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord. 18 So keep comforting one another with these words. 5 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.
    In other words, at some surprisingly sudden point in time, the dead (anointed) are raised to heaven together with those who are surviving right up to the time of the "parousia of the Lord." The timing has always been a matter of much conjecture. We don't like to use the term rapture, so our previous doctrine here taught that the parousia started in 1914 (as it still teaches, officially) but that the first resurrection (including Paul's resurrection) was supposed to have happened in 1918. This was a leftover from our old parallel dispensation teachings under Barbour, Russell, and early Rutherford. In fact, it was explained that because Jesus appeared as Messiah/Christ in 29 and was resurrected 3.5 years later, that the invisible appearance of Christ in October 1914 would be followed by a resurrection of all the dead saints in the spring of 1918.
    But 1918, although it once appeared more often than 1919 in our publications, has now been almost completely removed from our repertoire of prophetic dates, and replaced with dates like 1919 and more recent events. Jesus no longer inspected his temple in 1918, nor do we teach that the first resurrection must have happened in that year. Instead of just making a sudden change to the doctrine, it was changed from an important prophetic date to just "an interesting possibility."
    *** w07 1/1 p. 28 par. 12 “The First Resurrection”—Now Under Way! ***
    At this point, it may be helpful to consider what might be viewed as a Bible parallel. Jesus Christ was anointed as the future King of God’s Kingdom in the fall of 29 C.E. Three and a half years later, in the spring of 33 C.E., he was resurrected as a mighty spirit person. Could it, then, be reasoned that since Jesus was enthroned in the fall of 1914, the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began three and a half years later, in the spring of 1918? That is an interesting possibility.
    We still liked the idea of starting that resurrection "early in Christ's presence" and especially wanted to have it start before 1935. The article continues:
    This means that the first resurrection must have begun early in Christ’s presence, and it continues “during his presence.” (1 Corinthians 15:23) Rather than occurring all at once, the first resurrection takes place over a period of time. . . . “A white robe was given to each of them; and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been.”—Revelation 6:10, 11. . . .  So after war, famine, and pestilence began to ravage the earth, members of the 144,000 who were dead, represented by the blood at the base of the altar, were raised to heavenly life and clothed in symbolic white robes. . . . God’s Word does not disclose a precise date for the first resurrection, but it does reveal that it occurs over a period of time, during Christ’s presence. The first to be resurrected are anointed Christians who died before Christ’s presence began. As Christ’s presence progresses, anointed Christians who faithfully finish their earthly course are changed “in the twinkling of an eye” into powerful spirit creatures. (1 Corinthians 15:52) Will all the anointed receive their heavenly reward before the war of Armageddon? We do not know. We do know, however, that in God’s due time, all the 144,000 will be found standing on the heavenly Mount Zion.
    You might notice the mistake that I highlighted. The dead (whose sacrificial blood cries out for justice) are told to wait until the number was filled. But if we place this parousia from 1914 on up through the great tribulation, then we don't really have them all being changed together so that no one group of anointed has to be concerned about going to heaven before another group of anointed. Revelation says they all wait until the number is filled. Thessalonians says they all go together, at the time of that trumpet call. In fact the scripture in 1 Cor 15:52 just referenced says:
    (1 Corinthians 15:51, 52) 51 Look! I tell you a sacred secret: We will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we will be changed.
    This sounds very much like the "rapture" teaching that we had avoided for years by using the word "during" Christ's parousia, and "during" the last trumpet. Actually, the Greek in context here provides better support for translating "at his parousia" not "during his parousia." and "at the last trumpet."
    So, more recently, the Watchtower stopped discounting the idea about the "rapture." We still don't like the word because it reminds people of some false teachings still associated with the "rapture." But the basic idea of a "rapture" is now accepted. We still look to fit it all into our timeline for the first resurrection, Gog attack, great tribulation, marriage of the Lamb, etc.
    *** w15 7/15 pp. 18-19 pars. 14-16 “Your Deliverance Is Getting Near”! ***
    This gathering work does not refer to the initial ingathering of anointed ones; nor does it refer to the final sealing of the remaining anointed ones. (Matt. 13:37, 38) That sealing happens before the outbreak of the great tribulation. (Rev. 7:1-4) So, what is this gathering work that Jesus mentions? It is the time when the remaining ones of the 144,000 will receive their heavenly reward. (1 Thess. 4:15-17; Rev. 14:1) This event will take place at some point after the beginning of the attack by Gog of Magog. (Ezek. 38:11) Then these words of Jesus will be fulfilled: “At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father.”—Matt. 13:43.
    15 Does this mean that there will be a “rapture” of the anointed ones? Many in Christendom believe, according to this teaching, that Christians will be bodily caught up from the earth. Then, they expect that Jesus will visibly return to rule the earth. . . .  So those who will be taken to heaven will first need to be “changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.” (Read 1 Corinthians 15:50-53.) Therefore, while we do not use the term “rapture” here because of its wrong connotation, the remaining faithful anointed will be gathered together in an instant of time.
    16 Once all the 144,000 are in heaven, the final preparations for the marriage of the Lamb can begin. (Rev. 19:9) But something else will happen before that joyous event. Remember, shortly before the remaining ones of the 144,000 are taken to heaven, Gog will attack God’s people. (Ezek. 38:16)
    Much more to say, but I hope you can at least see what I meant by including the heavenly anointed in the "sheep and goats" parable.
  10. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    I have often thought of the analogy, (IN A DIFFERENT CONTEXT) of being in a medieval stone dungeon, one leg chained to the wall ... and the guards do not feed you .... and relatives have to swallow squares of meat without chewing to smuggle food to you, in their own stomachs, just before they visit you.
    Yeah ... it's necessary and desperately needed food ... and food at the proper time .... and I would die without it, but ....
    .... it's not the meat ... it's the DELIVERY SYSTEM!
  11. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    Dense understanding of one paragraph?
    The only part that is reality based is ONLY two sentences.
    Take it in context?
    I have my belly full of people playing with carefully crafted words, bending reality into a pretzel.
    I have spent the last 50 years WATCHING the "context".
    A MILLION words, carefully crafted, will not change what I know, and what I have personally seen,'
    When you go to any restaurant for good food, you do not assume that the proper food, served at the proper time, a significant portion of it will be ROTTEN,.
    Unless of course, the OTHER restaurants are so much worse,  you stop eating there.
    Unfortunately, when I find turds in the theocratic salad, I have to eat around them.
    There is nowhere else to go.
    ... but I do not like it!.
     
     
  12. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Srecko Sostar in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    Wrong Billy! You changed thesis!
    I am sure that you also  know, that it is not about issue of Transferring Perfection in question  but about Transferring Authority! 
    After, later it came to the idea that such Authority means Infallibility.  
  13. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Srecko Sostar in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    @Outta Here 1st quote How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err? This is the question here.
    As has been explained on many occasions, the GB/Slave is spirit-directed and not inspired. This means that guidance from Jehovah is provided whenever required. He keeps the the earthly part of His organisation on track....................when nececessary. In other words, if Jehovah has not intervened, then He is happy with the current progress. 
    **** my green color
    @Ou tta 2nd quote
    ??? I think I said that Jehovah is happy with the overall progress of His purpose and that will always govern in what He chooses to intervene. In other words, as He always has the successful outcome of His purpose in view, He is always happy with what He allows. Of course the negative aspects and consequences of human behaviour do not make Him happy (compare Ps.119:136). Surely you know that???
    He will indeed intervene in the affairs of all mankind soon. The outcome of that intervention will make him happier still, although there are some who feel otherwise.
    **** my green color
    my response: 
    Are you serious?
    Do you want to apply this idea about JHVH only on JW religion in some special situations and periods of religious progress/changes aka new light dogma?
    Or do you offer this Idea as General View (Happiness) that JHVH have on Humankind and World Condition (in specific religious issue: old Jew, 1st Church, 2nd Church, Reformed Churches, etc.) in past thousand years? By reading of Bible report we see that god was Unhappy only ones, when released Flood on Earth. In all other stages, periods by not intervened He showed Happiness? :))
    your response on this part:
    Do you want to apply this idea about JHVH only on JW religion in some special situations and periods of religious progress/changes aka new light dogma?
    You are referring to the nature of Jehovah's happines here I think? If that is the case then I don't apply it in such a narrrow context.
     
     :))))) now is time for real time :)))))
    Somehow You start to involve wording, Nature of JHVH happiness, in question i put. I don't now why. Because you started talking about God's Nature (Happiness). Even more, you go further and gave idea how there is gradation in this emotional state of God (happy - happier) :))) So, Who is that guy who talking about God's Nature? You or Me? :))
     You made it clear that you talking about 2 different progress that is going on, and about 2 reasons for God's happiness. And how god's happiness is also visible because, supposed progress, taking place . Perhaps His happiness about this two things is VISIBLE only TO You. :)))  and to WTJWORG.
    God is Happy with current progress ( here you talking  about progress inside WTJWORG).
    God is happy with the overall progress of His purpose (here you talking, i guess, from Adam and Eve to nowadays)   
    Somehow you entered in God's Mind and Emotions (aka God's Nature) and made inspection, insight of His Will, and then came before all of us here with comment even statement how God is satisfied with this 2 particular things.  
    - to laugh or to cry, question is now - 
    First of all, you made connection between WTJWORG activity, you called that PROGRESS with one EMOTIONAL STATE of JHVH Nature, aka happiness. This connection you have produced, was been reason for my next response i made to you:    In regard to JW religion, and with your opinion, this would mean how JHVH is happy when JW members feeling, thinking, speaking and doing things that are factually wrong. Strange god you have :))  
    I hope how this retrospective is helpful for our conversation :))))) stay well!
     
  14. Haha
  15. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to JW Insider in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    I'm glad you think so but that isn't the important thing, as you already know.
    I guess your first point was that when I referenced the parable of the sheep being separated from the goats, I mentioned that I thought Jesus was separating two kinds of sheep from the goats.  You requoted a portion of what I said as follows:
    I believe that when Jesus separates the sheep from the goats he is separating the anointed sheep as well as other sheep who don't identify themselves as anointed. (Matt 25:32)
    You had asked for my opinion, and I told you this was part of my opinion. Absolutely nothing has changed. When Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, these sheep will include anointed sheep and other sheep who do not identify themselves as anointed. Let's assume for example, that you believe you are one of the anointed sheep, and I believe I am one of another class of sheep, as I do not identify myself as anointed. When Jesus comes to separate the sheep from the goats, I am hoping that he favors both of us with a place on his right hand, and that we are not going to be with the goats on his left.
    You tried to explain that I meant something like this:
    There is actually so much ambiguity in that first sentence that it is difficult to parse your meaning. Perhaps I worded it in a way that confused you, but I can't find the logic in the idea you apparently got out of it. I never said anything about who any of the goats were and where they might come from. I'm including sheep who claim to be anointed and sheep who claim not to be anointed in the sheep category who Jesus will place on his right. I didn't say anything about who the goats are.
    I don't see a problem, and I don't see any reason to change, revise or edit anything.
    Strange. I take this to be more of the kind of blame-shifting and projection that you have become infamous for. In the past, you have often copied pages from Christendom's commentaries, and pictures of scholarly looking book covers that have titles that appear to support your claims. Then someone points out that the contents of the book show just the opposite of your claim. Then you go twisting and scrambling to make it look like you never made a mistake after all.
    I've even seen this type of twisting and scrambling for something as simple as a typo or mistaken definition, or misused vocabulary. When someone pointed it out to you, you doubled-down with some absolutely incredible pseudo-explanation to avoid admitting even a minor mistake. Sometimes, you apparently resort to meaningless word-salads or other types of word-play, and I can't tell if you think it worked to impress others, or to obfuscate. But whenever you get a piece of criticism like this you can be counted on to counter-claim that it is others who use word-play and word-salads, or you go on a temper-rant claiming that people are making fun of you.
    I'd recommend that before you start claiming that I say things "in order to confuse" just ask others if they were also confused. Maybe they were, and this means I should rewrite it, but if it's mostly just you who's confused, just ask more questions, and I'll be happy to explain further the things that you might not have understood correctly -- just as I am happy to do now.
    You also apparently had a problem with my statement that Zechariah 8 (in context) gives us some good ideas about helping others to become Christians, which should be a goal of our ministry. You requoted a portion here: “My own opinions here are somewhat separate. Although on the matter of Zechariah 8, I think that chapter really does provide an excellent and important image for us to remember about our own attempts to make converts to true Christianity”
    Again, I don't see what kind of a problem you would have with this. We want people we meet in our ministry and persons whom we hope to have study the Bible with us become converted to true Christianity. Right? The context of Zechariah 8 had shown how this would be fulfilled in the midst of economic hardships and disappointments and even the incursion of enemies/opposers. I had already pointed this out and also wanted to show how the image of having people come to us can sometimes be more important that us coming to them. If we are true Christians, we will be known by reputation. As Jesus said (and as my very next sentence began after the portion you quoted):
    I partially understand why you wish to disagree with me whenever you have a chance, but you very often seem to forget that when you are so anxious to be an opposer, when not careful, you can end up opposing Jesus' own words, too.
  16. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    How can you say that the Watchtower society / JW Org / GB dispense truth when they keep changing the meaning of scriptures ? It is not a lie to say they they have changed the meaning of the scripture concerning 'This generation will not pass away' .. It is not a lie that they changed the meaning of the scripture concerning the 'Superior Authorities'. it gets boring repeating this but you obviously don't believe they change the meaning of scriptures. 
    They also misuse scripture and misuse their 'authority' but that is another matter. 
    The GB have no way of proving that they have been chosen by God to do His will. They admit not to be inspired. They even admit that they make mistakes. If they have the responsibility of 8.5 million lives already, and if they have yet another 9 million bible studies going on, and if they have the job of gathering all those with the right heart condition, then surely they would need to be inspired by God, and surely Jesus Christ would not let them give false information or make mistakes which would stumble thousands of people earthwide and stop some people even being interested in the JW Org.
    As for understanding, you only seem to understand the GB's / Watchtower's meaning of scripture, so you prove yourself to be following MEN. 
    Sorry Billy but you do make yourself open to criticism by your blindly believing all that the Watchtower / GB tells you. 
     
  17. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from Foreigner in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    Billy the Kid puffed up with pride again i see. And back to woshing the GB. 
    Either your faith is centered on the interpretation given or it isn’t.  But interpretation given by whom ? 
    Ah I see,  If it isn’t, it is due to not having faith in God that he can transmit spiritual understanding on the proper time to those he has chosen on earth.  But i wonder who Billy thinks has been chosen ? 
    And then Billy puts it down to : That’s a failure of those that don’t understand, dispense spiritual food at the proper time. 
    Poor poor Billy, all he has is his faith in those 8 men. He hangs on their every word. 
    I wonder if billy ever gives thought to the point that, if those 8 men don't actually have good spiritual food to give, then why do they give anything at all ?  Giving poison (lies, deceit, misuse of scriptures, dishonesty ) to your brothers just because you do not have good spiritual food to give, is not God's way of doing things. 
  18. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Srecko Sostar in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    I have no custom to offer Bible verses as for reason to support my opinions, but for those who Respect Bible above WTJWORG:  
    Psalm 119:160 The sum of your word is truth,
    John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

    Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 

    Job 34:12 Of a truth, God will not do wickedly, and the Almighty will not pervert justice.

    Psalm 25:5 Lead me in your truth and teach me

    Psalm 86:11 Teach me your way, O LORD, that I may walk in your truth;

    John 8:31-32 … So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
    John 17:8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you;

    WT magazine: Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food". 
    TRUTH = PERFECT 
    First and Last thing what JW's need, must have in Mind, to reevaluate; JHVH/JESUS is Source and He Produced Truthful, Perfect and Healthy Spiritual Food .... NOT GB from WTJWORG.
    If by any chance GB want to apply on themselves illustration from Matthew about servant who sharing food, (Sharing, NOT Grow, NOT Produce, Not Cooke)  than the best thing for them would be to continue with printing the Bible, and only Bible. :)))
  19. Haha
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in Ten men out of ... the nations ... will take firm hold of the robe of a Jewish man   
    Billy the Kid puffed up with pride again i see. And back to woshing the GB. 
    Either your faith is centered on the interpretation given or it isn’t.  But interpretation given by whom ? 
    Ah I see,  If it isn’t, it is due to not having faith in God that he can transmit spiritual understanding on the proper time to those he has chosen on earth.  But i wonder who Billy thinks has been chosen ? 
    And then Billy puts it down to : That’s a failure of those that don’t understand, dispense spiritual food at the proper time. 
    Poor poor Billy, all he has is his faith in those 8 men. He hangs on their every word. 
    I wonder if billy ever gives thought to the point that, if those 8 men don't actually have good spiritual food to give, then why do they give anything at all ?  Giving poison (lies, deceit, misuse of scriptures, dishonesty ) to your brothers just because you do not have good spiritual food to give, is not God's way of doing things. 
  20. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER got a reaction from BillyTheKid46 in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    JW's only god is their GB. That is whom they serve, believe and rely on. So yes a very strange god indeed. 
     
  21. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Srecko Sostar in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    @JOHN BUTLER
    Idea is not just "stupid" but also impossible. Read again last sentence conclusion that @Anna made by quoting WT magazine.
    In an effort to protect their intellectual and copyright law (ahahaha) and to blur the vision of the reader or the believer / follower, to justifies all past and future failure in any, any matter they reached for The Words that Jesus never said, according to Bible, OT or NT scriptures !!!!! 
    Another funny idea can be filtered from the way they made explanation; Jesus did not tell us. From this we can make funny conclusion, but who knows, maybe editor of article truly believes in possibility that Jesus somehow told them with some Voice from Heaven, in a Dream, before this edition of WT magazine went to printing; I never told you and never promised you that i will supplied you with perfect spiritual food!  
    Today's WT study (Nov 2016) p.15 par.9:  "Some may feel that they can interpret the Bible on their own. However, Jesus has appointed the ‘faithful slave’ to be the only channel for dispensing spiritual food. Since 1919, the glorified Jesus Christ has been using that slave to help his followers understand God’s own Book and heed its directives.’"
    And
    WT Feb.2017 p.26. par.12 " The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870".
    It seems that the key to making sense of these 2 seemingly opposing quotes is in the above paragraph if we continue reading: " Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food".
     
  22. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Srecko Sostar in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    I don't know nothing about nature of JHVH (and his happiness). What i think i know maybe is wrong or insufficient. I am not sure how your view about God's nature is correct. Because you said, He is always happy with what He allows. 
    B1 [ T ] to give permission for someone to do something, or to not prevent something from happening:
    [ + that ] formal to admit or agree that something is true:
    to let someone do something or let something happen; permit:
    to make it possible for something to be done or to happen:
    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/allow
    In regard to JW religion, and with your opinion, this would mean how JHVH is happy when JW members feeling, thinking, speaking and doing things that are factually wrong. Strange god you have :)) 
  23. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    THE PHILOSOPHER KINGS WILL DO ANYTHING TO PROTECT THE PHILOSOPHER KINGS.
    ... JUST REMEMBER THIS ... PLAYING WITH WORDS WILL NOT CHANGE REALITY.
    .... AND PLAYING WITH A MILLION WORDS WILL NOT CHANGE REALITY, EITHER.
    TO UNDERSTAND WHAT JESUS OR THE APOSTLES REALLY MEANT, YOU HAVE TO "GET INTO THE MIND" OF THOSE THAT WERE BEING SPOKEN TO AT THE TIME.
    HOW DID THEY UNDERSTAND IT ?
    ALL ELSE IS ARROGANCE.
    ALL ELSE IS VANITY.
    ONCE A RELIGION ACCUMULATES MONEY AND REAL ESTATE, IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT MONEY AND REAL ESTATE THEREAFTER, AND  WHATEVER IT TAKES TO KEEP IT.
    -------
    THERE HAVE NEVER BEEN ANY EXCEPTIONS IN THE PAST.
    -------
    THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS, NOW.
    -------

     
     
     
  24. Upvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Srecko Sostar in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    Ahh, i see clearly now, i figured out .... difference between "be inspired" and "spirit guided" :)))))
    Another prophetic words for less publications in recent years.
    But again have to ask, what Bible verse said; "not ALL the time"? :))) 
    ....... similar with WTJWORG statement: "Jesus not promised perfect food" ?? :))
    Looking for Literal interpretations about illustration.
     
  25. Downvote
    JOHN BUTLER reacted to Evacuated in How are we to understand the GB/Slave interpreting scripture, as the sole chanel, and at the same time accept that they can err?   
    Keep working at it. Meditation always takes a bit of time and effort, but it is worth it long term. It will become less "strange" as your understanding grows.
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