JOHN BUTLER

It certainly can be indulged in as though gambling, but so can most things. Start a business, for example, and you are “gambling” with many unknowns. Far “safer” to walk into the factory and ask for a job. You are “gambling” every time you get behind the wheel of a car.
But the basic idea of “investing” in the stock market is not gambling at all. Buying a stock is buying a very very tiny piece of a company. You benefit the company by supplying it with the funds it needs to expand. In turn, you are (a very tiny) part owner of that company, to thrive if it thrives.
How “moral” it is is anyone’s guess. It depends upon where you are & what companies you invest in. In the case of huge companies, it becomes the case of the tail (the stockholders) wagging the dog (the company).
If you, for example, own John’s Bomb Company [and I am not being snarky or suggestive here, I am just trying to illustrate a point] then you are content to wait for customers. When you get an order for a bomb, you go into the workshop to make one.
But when you are a gigantic weapons company with many stockholders to “feed,” you have to keep feeding them. You cannot just wait for bomb orders to roll in—what if there is a period of peace?  If you don’t make and sell a lot of bombs, then you don’t make money for your stockholders, and they go somewhere else where they can make money. 
So there is an irresistible temptation to make your market. That’s why the armaments companies have a huge presence in government circles as lobbyists. It is not merely to say, ‘Hey, if you need bombs, we are better than that other company.’ More significantly, it is to say, ‘The world is a very dangerous place, with many many enemies that must be kept in check. You cannot have too many bombs on hand, and as it turns out, we make them.’
For the longest time, Russia (or the Soviet Union) has been identified as the king of the north, who puts his trusts in fortresses. It is he who hosts public parades of weapons rolling through the streets—boasting in military might.  Still, right now, the U.S. is bombing more countries than he.
This is but the most blatant example. Parallels can be found in most industries—energy, food, chemical, pharmaceutical, banking, for instance. They can’t just wait around for people to order their product. They must, in order to “feed” the stockholders, go out and make markets, and expand ones already made.
It is entirely separate from “gambling,” and might be seen as the bigger evil. After all, if you have some money, you are “gambling” far more by sticking it under your mattress. You are gambling that there is no fire or thief. And if you put your money in the bank, you know very well that they are not just sitting on it. They are putting it in the stock market in hopes of making a profit. Or they are loaning it out to other people, who may not pay it back. How’s that for gambling (with your funds)? 
 

You are talking from a 'worldly viewpoint', I was meaning from a more scriptural / moral viewpoint of honesty, hard work and conscience.
Basically the GB / Org allows the stock market just like Moses allowed divorce. And it seems for the same reason the Society allowed smoking up until 1970 even though they knew it was wrong in the late 1800's.
They are frightened to offend too many people, as it would mean less money in the pot from contributions. 
 

The only two things we can safely say about  "this generation" (the contentious one) is that:
1.  It will pass.
2.  At a day and hour which no man knows.
 

.... A truce only works between men of straight forwardness, and principle.
I do have enough life experiences to know better ... but I gave it a shot.
Oh well!
...by the way, I purchased my arsenal, Billy, with money I worked for.

Do you think that is the “real” issue here?
Do you think that God loses any sleep over it?
Do you think that should he see the error of his ways and back down, there will not be 100 to take his place?
Do you plan to take them all on? I mean, you haven’t really put out any fires here. You’ve even managed to get Mt. JWI to erupt again. He had been content to post pictures of kitty cats.

This is NOT the Kingdom Hall, Billy.
If you want to have credibility, HERE you have to say things that are credible .... AND PROVE THEM.
Every time you come out with a statement that is not common knowledge to MOST EVERYONE ... when called on it, you HAVE TO PROVE IT.
If you don't you get less and less respect and credibility every time you ignore a legitimate question, or change the subject.
I really wanted to believe you had a 50 caliber sniper rifle ... that would be sooooo cool, as far as I am concerned ... and perhaps you really do ... but because you ignored my question about how you acquired it, and avoided expounding, added to this "actor claim" choke,  I can't believe anything you say, if it is not obvious common knowledge.

You said you had two-or-three examples.
When called on it you choked, and changed the subject.

Do you ever get the subtle impression ... somewhere in the back of your mind ... perhaps when it's late at night and the house is very quiet, and you can hear the battery powered clock in the next room ticking ... that it is the Lawyers and Accountants at Warwick and Colony Park, NY, that are running the show?

... sounds like a good idea to me !
If you fill out the paperwork, and pay the tax stamp fee, In South Carolina you can own anything that does not involve nuclear energy.
.... bummer!
The Estate of the famous author Tom Clancy recently had his Sherman Tank for sale.
 

I'm not saying the individual congregations are not part of the CCJW or the Watchtower, I'm just showing the kinds of legal arguments that must be made to protect the financial part of the current kingdom "interests." It's not that I think that attorneys should not try to do what they can to limit financial exposure either, as long as they are also looking for "fairness" and "justice" for the victims. But all Witnesses should be aware that the material resources that we currently enjoy as part of the organization are not permanent. They are not "promised." In fact, all of us should at all times be willing to walk by faith and not by sight.
A lack of money can result in a breakdown of the lines of communication between a local congregation and various entities in New York. Are we willing to make the best of such a situation and trust in Jehovah? The WTS/CCJW is currently trying to prepare Witnesses for such an eventuality. Will it happen as predicted? Will it happen in a way that doesn't come anywhere close to what is being predicted? What if the GB are taken by some nefarious forces, as you have spoken of? What if they are put in prison for covering up child abuse? They have surely considered these possibilities themselves. What if, instead of the protection expected in an imminent great tribulation, our religion and organization becomes an object of derision for 40 more years? (These are not predictions and have nothing to do with any Bible prophecies that I know of.)
In any particular country, or perhaps even on a more international scale, we have certain expectations bolstered by prophetic interpretations, and we will easily maintain faithfulness if those expectations seem to align with our beliefs about ourselves. But we also need to be prepared for maintaining our faith under completely different circumstances. One of those circumstances might be merely going on for another 50 years as more and more of our brothers lose their enthusiasm, and cannot seem to be goaded any longer by proddings of 'imminence.' We can go back to a Biblical question in Luke 18:8:
Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

But be serious on this one. Surely the Stock Exchange is still gambling ?
So isn't that hypocrisy ?  
I do the UK lotto and have no bad conscience about it. After all, a person can go into a pub for a beer, but he doesn't want to get drunk, so i can gamble for a little win, but i don't love money or want to be a millionaire. 
Common occurrence with TTH, if a truth about the Org is brought up in conversation, turn it into a joke to avoid giving truthful answer. 

The society regularly (daily) gambles with contributed money on the various Stock Exchanges.
But if you or I buy a $2 Lottery ticket ... SPOINNNNG! ... out we go.

I bought shares 100,000 shares of TWNM (The World News Media) just before you and Billy escalated your knock-down drag-out fights.
I am now a gazillionaire who never needs to think about money again!

I am not looking to the Society for approval ... I am looking to them to use common sense, and mind their own business. The Apostles were armed at Passover and the Memorial. (Luke 22:36)  That's good enough for me.
And Billy probably only has a long distance  target rifle, not a machine gun (probably), typical of what snipers ALSO use.
Just because prostitutes wear shoes does not mean all people that wear shoes are prostitutes!
Of course, if their shoes have stiletto heels, are fluorescent red, curl up in the front and have a fuzzy ball on the toes, well ............

Another point totally off topic as usual. I think the 'Society' allow / agree with, 'gambling' on the Stock Exchange, but don't allow doing Lotteries or other forms of gambling. My brother's daughter lost thousands on the stock exchange.  i don't understand it  so can't give more details but i do know she was not happy  

Show me a person who thinks they are  sane, and I will show you a person  who needs their head examined.

Antarctica?
 

You don’t even know that the people you are arguing with are sane. You don’t even know for sure that they are people. Maybe they are bots like those the Russians supposedly employed on social media, so as to get people enraged at each other and then they could say “See how much better our form of government is? We don’t have these kinds of lunatics running around in the wild.”
If you are going to engage with opposers on social media, there are a few points to keep in mind.
1.) you probably shouldn’t.
2.) you will ultimately lose. You must be prepared to yield the final word. This is because they do not give up and the only way you can match that record is to become petulant and argumentative yourself.
3.) you somewhat negate that if you have a huge body of relevant work that you can link to, effectively answering their 50 words with your 1000. It has a way of discouraging trolls. 
4.) You cannot let yourself be goaded. It is your greatest weakness, imo. Sometimes you start out well, but when they talk back (which they will always do) you get madder and madder and MADDER until you leave a trail that, regardless of whether it is true or not, comes across as the very opposite of the way Jesus dealt with people.
5.) You must be like me, who never ever trolls and who merely confines himself to the dignified use of internet resources in search of fatheads to set straight.
Do you find enraged elephants here and think that you have to slay them? Another way to handle enraged elephants is to bury them in an avalanche of other elephants. That is what this forum serves to do. Even regular participants like myself find it impossible to keep up. Even my own stuff penned here I also put on my own blog because that is the only way I can find it again.
If the regulars can’t keep up, who else is going to? If someone says something substantial here or there, it is quickly buried amidst so much crap that it is impossible to find again—nobody but the most resolute nerd would have the patience, and should he find and spotlight it nobody pays any attention to him because he is a resolute nerd and everybody knows it and only other resolute nerds pay any attention to him.
It calls to mind when that pompous scientist/philosopher/cheerleader/atheist Alan H wrote: “I call everyone to witness that TTH has not answered my question.” “It’s just you and me, you idiot,” I retorted. “What! Do you think that you are Clarence Darrow in Inherit the Wind?”
It is inherently easier to defend something you think noble than it is for others to attack it. The benefits of the Christian teachings serve to strengthen resolve and to unbuild one, but what are the benefits to one who would tear it down? “I gotta be MEEEEEE, I gotta be FREEEEEE!!!!” only goes so far. That said, if I thought that my words here were solely for here and only here, I would not be able to motivate myself to write them.

I thought you were being serious when you said the Witnesses need a new message, and I thought you knew what that message should be

Billy !
Woooo.... perhaps we actually DO have something in common!   Whooda thunkit!?
.50 cal handgun, or rifle?  What model?  What model .45 ?    Revolver or 1911?
Now you have piqued my interest!
How about a truce to talk about hardware?

I am terrible at playing ball, always have been ... but I can be on my front porch and hit the back of my mailbox at the street, 87 feet away with a 9mm bullet, firing from the hip, in 3/8 of a second.  Who knows?  Perhaps one day such a skill will be useful., if some nutcase challenges me to a fight.

Light is truth. John 14:6; 8:12  Christian living requires speaking truth and practicing love toward one’s neighbor.
Eph 5:11 - And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
Beliefs Clarified is not truth, but “unfruitful works” of darkness;  a flip-flop of lies.  Beliefs Clarified” is a misnomer and should in all honestly be entitled, “Beliefs Obscured”.  When we “clarify” a point, we bring into focus what is initially stated, building on the primary point.  If we clarify a true teaching, that truth becomes well established with clearer understanding.  Watchtower usually starts with a lie and ends with a lie.   Prov 12:22
A wicked slave authorizes its army of adherents to ban and disfellowship those who follow Christ, even though Jesus promises life to those who do. Matt 24:9-13; 48-51; Rev 13:11,12, 15; John 8:12  It is not an act of love to disfellowship such ones, but hate; and it is exactly what Jesus prophesied would happen to those who follow him.  Luke 21:12; John 16:2; 1 John 3:12  It is exactly what the Beast/organization of Revelation practices on those who refuse to “serve” and dedicate themselves to its authority.  Rev 13:4-10   The attack against such ones, is guaranteed.
These are all “unfruitful works of darkness”. 
Pagan ways?  You are grasping at straws.  Can you imagine worshiping God without the organization?  If not, you are an idolater.  Isa 46:5
To admire a dual power of authority over others, is admitting one’s own enslavement to its authority.  It has nothing to do with true “religion”.  James 1:27 
Since the GB ‘dishonors’ others with their sense of pride and position, ousting any who reject their bogus claim, they have no love in themselves; they are the “wicked” slave.    The organization’s disfellowshipping file must be bursting at its seams. Of course, their lawsuit file already is.  
 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.  It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.  Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.  1 Cor 13:4-6
 
 
 
 

Actually Billy, the idea of you being like a dog would be an insult to dogs, of which I have a high opinion..
My wife and I have six dogs, and I should know.  We enjoy watching them live out their lives as happy animals. Recently we just bought 20 Bantam Chickies,  for our entertainment only, to watch them grow up, and enjoy their lives.
No matter what the subject, you misinterpret what other people have said, so there is no news there.
Let's just say that in my mind there was no idea whatsoever that you exhibited any characteristics that dogs are known for, the chief of which is just being happy, and happy to be around humans.
None whatsoever.
I would tell you what I did have on my mind, but you would just misinterpret that as well, and take it as an insult, without understanding.
I think TTH gave John Butler incredibly GOOD advice, and your reaction was pure evil.

I have never thought of him as despicable. His hatred of some things is a bit unhinged, I would say, but that is partly accounted for by where he has been.
He should leave for his own peace of mind. Others can take over. JTR is opening his second file cabinet right now. Srecko is sharpening his tongue. Shiwiiiiiiiiii can step into his shoes, if need be. Witness is readying tractor trailer loads of verse. And Jack is saying “Why doesn’t the old fart move on? People can barely focus on MY complaints, he is so active..
In fact, let him act as though Billy has chased him away. It will stand as his final altruistic deed. He can’t always think just of himself—he must think of others.

You’d better be older than 37. That’s all I can say.
Get off this forum and spend some time with her, John. Seriously. There are better things for you to do than piss away your time here. It probably is getting on her nerves, Someone will arise to take your place, I am sure. You needn’t worry about that.
Find some peace and enjoyment in your life. Mend fences with the faith if you can. But since that seems all but impossible, just drop back to the original advice: spend some time with her. You are more likely to find peace and enjoyment there than here.