JOHN BUTLER

Inquiry announces new investigation into child protection in religious organisations and settings
  2 May 2019 The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse has announced a new investigation into child protection in religious organisations and settings.
The investigation will be thematic and will review the current child protection policies, practices and procedures in religious institutions in England and Wales.
Organisations falling under the remit of this investigation will include non conformist Christian denominations, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Baptists, Methodists, Islam, Judaism, Sikhism, Hinduism and Buddhism. This investigation is separate from our investigations into the Anglican and Roman Catholic churches.
Religious settings such as mosques, synagogues, churches and temples are in scope. Places of faith tuition such as Muslim madrassahs and Christian Sunday schools and places where children and young people gather in connection with their religious beliefs, including youth groups and camps will also be investigated by the Inquiry.
More than one in 10 survivors of child sexual abuse (11 per cent) who shared their accounts with the Inquiry’s Truth Project reported sexual abuse in a religious institution. Of this group, almost a quarter (24 percent) told the Inquiry they were abused in institutions in scope of this new investigation, including Jehovah's Witnesses, Baptists, Methodists, Judaism and Islam. Not all participants provided details about the religious denomination of the institution or perpetrator.
Organisations and individuals are being invited to apply for core participant status. Core participants must have a significant interest in this investigation and have special rights defined by legislation.
A preliminary hearing will take place at 2pm on 23 July 2019 and public hearings will take place in 2020.
source: https://www.iicsa.org.uk/news/inquiry-announces-new-investigation-child-protection-religious-organisations-and-settings

Like a Roman Catholic Bishop, who was also a General in the Army of Spain once said, when informed that a Spanish Muslim controlled Fortress contained as many Catholics as Muslims, which he was in the process of defeating and chasing from Spain ....
"Kill them all, and let God sort them out!".

I feel better if I can bring a little laughter and happiness to the world ... it makes me sleep better at night.

Well if you put it like that @Outta Here I suppose I went out from JW Org because I'm not a Pedophilie and I don't condone Pedophilia, so I proved that I an not of that 'sort'.  Your quote of scripture not mine. 
As for me being an 'idolator' and then realising it, you are right. Exactly right. I did serve the JW Org as I thought it had 'truth'. But now having studied the bible myself without the misguidance of the JW Org, I see through the veneer of the GB domination. @JW Insider has just confirmed much of what I believe about the GB and it's Org. @James Thomas Rook Jr. says he has proof of same, if he is being serious. 
Actually i have 'come clean' about it many times on this forum. Maybe you don't read many of my posts.
However, I always think of Saul that thought he was doing right until Jesus showed him what was really right.  Saul would never have become Paul without guidance from Jesus Christ.  Maybe, just maybe, Jesus sees those in JW Org that think they are doing right but are doing wrong,  then maybe Jesus shows them the right way. Maybe Jesus will help people to leave the JW Org and to find the right way to serve God. I haven't given up hope In God through Christ. 
Quoter "some temporary relief for the resentment and embarrassment they feel,"   Do you really think the Apostle Paul felt that ? Look how off track Paul was, but Jesus guided him in the right direction. Do you think Paul was embarrassed ? I think Paul was too busy doing God's will to be concerned for his own embarrassment.  I'm also too busy to be embarrassed. 
Oh by the way the scripture you have used doesn't match the purpose you had for it. 
: "They went out from us ... But they went out  ...   Does not  = But, actually, they were rejected 
To leave of one's own accord is not being discarded or rejected, it is LEAVING OF ONE'S OWN ACCORD.   

I rest my case, then.

Well, JWI.
Billy himself thought it was funny, and he has no sense of humor whatsoever.

Way over the top there, James, don't you think?

You crack me up Billy. The level in which you interact with others is very telling. 
 
Also, it doesn't hurt my feelings if you down vote my posts. It actually makes me smile..........because you read it. 

@Anna I would love to see who you really are, to see you as a person that is so blind to the deliberate faults of JW Org. 
Your long answer is so full of, I think the GB call it garbage. But I'll probs get told off for saying that... 
 It is true that ultimately God reads hearts and reads motives, and that we cannot judge anyone,
Well it's good that Jesus Christ read the heart of Saul, when Saul was persecuting the early Christians isn't it ? Otherwise the Apostle Paul would not have existed.  
Quote " For example there are those who condone things that God hates and implicitly rejects (eg. practicing homosexuals). "
I see you didn't mention Pedophilia then. You really are blind. 
Quote "Firstly, the organization is only in place because of the preaching work. "
BUT, the message keeps changing to suit the GB and it's writing dept'.  Scripture is deliberately misused to misguide innocent people. The Catholic church is earthwide too with it's false message, so not much difference there. 
Quote "Secondly, the organization strives to strictly adhere to the scriptures."  Anna, wake up, the Org misuses scriptures. 
The 'This Generation' scripture is a great example. The 'Superior Authorities' scripture is another example. Are  you being deliberately blind to all this ? 
Quote "Also, as far as I am aware, those who "leave the org." do not continue to preach, and no longer strictly adhere to the scriptures. "
1. I do not preach anymore because I realise now that i only preached what I was told to preach, and that was not serving God it was serving the JW Org. I am quite prepared to admit that I do not know what 'truth' is, so i would not know what to preach. I truly believe that the scriptures, well the deeper parts thereof, are for the Anointed and that the scripture concerning 'ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew' will take place when God makes it truly known who the Spiritual Jew' really is. 
2. As for 'strictly adhere to the scriptures.'  You are right in my case, but then i was never doing so anyway as I was serving an Organisation, so I was never strictly adhering to scriptures and the Society, GB, JW Org, never did and still do not. 
Quote "There are also many that do not see those things you listed as reasons to leave the org. "
That is because those people serve the Org as their god. They do not look for truth, they are just spoonfed and accept it all. Even when the meanings of scriptures are changed by the GB or writing dept', the congregants do not even question it, they dare not for fear of being disfellowshipped. Those poor people do not know any other life, they are trapped inside that giant bubble, and frightened to look for God themselves. They rely on men that are not anointed with Holy Spirit, to guide them. The blind leading the blind, and we know what happens next. 

@BillyTheKid46  Are you actually a Jehovah's Witness ? I'm beginning to think not
Quote "There are several reasons why a person would go directly to hell do not pass; go "
There is no 'hell'.   Only death and a possible resurrection. I say possible because not everyone, it seems, gets  a resurrection.  
The dead are conscious of nothing at all. 
I feel sure enough that i will be dead a long time before Judgement Day arrives. Then it will be in the hands of Jesus Christ as to if i get a resurrection or not.  And I cannot imagine that people will be resurrected just to be punished. 
And your comment  " Is telling people the truth, bullying, "  . JW's don't know the truth as they keep changing their ideas to suit themselves.
JW's worship their GB by accepting everything the GB say. The Elders worship their GB by doing everything their GB tells them to do, without asking questions and without conscience or moral thoughts.
And once again i say, your GB have no authority from God or from Jesus Christ. Your GB are false prophets and fake 'slaves'.
They have proved themselves false and fake by their words and deeds.

@BillyTheKid46   Quote "Therefore, John, this is really not off topic. If there was an overseer that said OUR FAITH IS GARBAGE AND NEEDS TO BE TORN DOWN
This is exactly what it means, with the examples given here."
The overseer does not have that authority from God. Neither does your GB fake 'faithful slave class '
But if you need to worship the GB then so be it.  Putting your faith in MEN is against God and against His written word and you know it.  You will be judged for doing that. 
As for me, yes, I am lost in many ways. I cannot understand why God does not make it more plain to humans which way to worship Him. I won't repeat scripture concerning the anointed as you will totally reject it again.
As for the 2 Peter 2 scripture well we can all have own own opinion of it. I think it refers to the Anointed... Verse 20 is needed to fully get the idea of it all.. 
It is quite easy for those inside and outside of the JW Org to see how those 'taking the lead' act as bullies. The threat of Armageddon is one point. Pretending it is 'so close' when it could be hundreds of years away. 

@JW Insider If the Society / GB and all in 'command' had acted in the way that Paul was saying in that 1 Corinthians 9 19-23 scripture, then the Earthwide Child Abuse / Pedophilia  would never have happened. 
But you seem to see it as just collateral damage, necessary for the 'progress' of the Org. 
Quote "Still the core of the religion itself is one that does perhaps the best job of all religions in fighting the machinations of the Devil: " 
How can that be so when many of the beliefs are based on lies or misinformation and meanings of scripture constantly change to suit the purpose of the GB ? And also as I've mentioned above the Child Abuse.  
And you yourself mentioned the Armageddon threats from the Org. When in honesty they have no real idea. They keep moving the goalposts to suit themselves. 
And of course the shunning we will never agree on but we can agree to differ. 
And I've only just spotted this "and pointing out the value of Christian morality", now that has to be a joke. 
And the "We must question." Really ? and get disfellowshipped for doing so. 

My goodness topic wars. (A bit like Robot Wars only funnier) 
We we are all totally off topic of course and we all have our own opinions.
@BillyTheKid46 I honestly don't know who is a Witness and who is an ex-Witness, or who was never a Witness at all
My opinion was that @JW Insider is still a Witness but working for both sides, a bit like Judas did. My feelings are that he/she thinks the JW Org as a whole has the 'truth' but that maybe the GB are going off track. 
As for @Anna , I'm totally confused. I thought she, I presume she is a she, was a Witness as I thought she wrote in the present time about her kingdom hall and elders. 
And you Billy, even you confuse me. Sometimes I think you are a Witness and other times I think you are a religious person but not a Witness.
Hence, everyone, I tell you this, once again. When I upvote or downvote or make reference to a comment, it is ONLY about that ONE comment.  One reason for that is I have a bad memory and cannot remember ten comments back, and a second reason is that a lot of the time,such as now, we are totally off topic anyway, so we cannot be commenting on the actual topic heading.
I do wish people would be their real selves, real names, real photos, etc. It would make my life so much easier. 
Good morning From me in Devon England at 9.30am. I am not a robot    

@JW Insider Yes I'm upset that you choose to point it out. You are talking like an Elder. This isn't one of your Kingdom Halls so don't try to dominate me. 
Have you ever read Billy the Kid's comments, saying that I need medical attention ?  That's ok is it ? 
And TTH has mentioned my past situation causing me problems etc. 
My comment to Anna was about her comment not about the video. 
OK, let's get down to basics. what exactly was Anna saying about people that reject the JW Org ? 
She was saying that ex-JW's rejected God's standards. I'm an ex JW so does that include me ?
Anna was saying that ex JW's are not good enough to serve God. That is just what the GB and JW Org want people to believe. It's part of the brainwashing. It stops many JW's asking any questions. 
I was hurt by Anna's comment and I'm equally hurt by yours. But then you are both JW's so what more should I expect. 
I think TTH has said this is basically an open forum and we must all accept what others say. Things hurt me and I try to 'let it go by' (quoting Joe Cocker) but I don't expect people to talk down to me as if they are an Elder in a KH. 
Are you an elder ? Your name makes me think you are a 'spy' 'Insider'. Whistleblower.  But probably an Elder too.
Maybe you should stay in the 'Private Club' which is probs more 'soft' for you. 
If @admin thinks I'm out of line I'm sure they will give me a warning or ban me from the forum. 

@Anna I cannot believe you said / wrote this. Are you drunk ?
I left the JW Org because of God's high standards. Because the GB and it's Org are going against God's high standards. 
Are you totally blind to the Child Abuse within JW Org ?
Are you blind to the shunning of people that leave the JW Org for the right reasons ? 
Are you blind to the lies / misuse of scriptures / changing of use of scriptures ?
Do you think JW's have a higher standard of morals than other people ? 
Are you so blinded by the smokescreen of hypocrisy in the JW Org ? 
Are you so dominated by those 8 men in charge and by the Elders that act as policemen ? 
Sorry Anna, I think that your comment is so naive. 

Well if you put it like that @Outta Here I suppose I went out from JW Org because I'm not a Pedophilie and I don't condone Pedophilia, so I proved that I an not of that 'sort'.  Your quote of scripture not mine. 
As for me being an 'idolator' and then realising it, you are right. Exactly right. I did serve the JW Org as I thought it had 'truth'. But now having studied the bible myself without the misguidance of the JW Org, I see through the veneer of the GB domination. @JW Insider has just confirmed much of what I believe about the GB and it's Org. @James Thomas Rook Jr. says he has proof of same, if he is being serious. 
Actually i have 'come clean' about it many times on this forum. Maybe you don't read many of my posts.
However, I always think of Saul that thought he was doing right until Jesus showed him what was really right.  Saul would never have become Paul without guidance from Jesus Christ.  Maybe, just maybe, Jesus sees those in JW Org that think they are doing right but are doing wrong,  then maybe Jesus shows them the right way. Maybe Jesus will help people to leave the JW Org and to find the right way to serve God. I haven't given up hope In God through Christ. 
Quoter "some temporary relief for the resentment and embarrassment they feel,"   Do you really think the Apostle Paul felt that ? Look how off track Paul was, but Jesus guided him in the right direction. Do you think Paul was embarrassed ? I think Paul was too busy doing God's will to be concerned for his own embarrassment.  I'm also too busy to be embarrassed. 
Oh by the way the scripture you have used doesn't match the purpose you had for it. 
: "They went out from us ... But they went out  ...   Does not  = But, actually, they were rejected 
To leave of one's own accord is not being discarded or rejected, it is LEAVING OF ONE'S OWN ACCORD.   

This is very good sentence, from which i read next: 
All and every moment of efforts numbered here (intensive Bible study, organizational experience, faith in Jehovah, meditation and prayer) reveals one side - human efforts, to gain, what? ....these things are combination of preconditions, causes that will, supposedly,  result in spiritual guidance (from above). 
What i see here is, only/solely working (almost fleshly) efforts of particular human who strive to get, to receive something divinely, spiritually from God, by deeds, by work (aka intensive bible study, more preaching, more meetings etc).
What is omitted in this sentence (not by purpose and not from you personally) but by common/general view in WT organization is the role of Second Part in this "equation". Influence and power that depend of that very Person who is The Source of spiritual guidance.   
Pushing made by/from WTJWORG  how person must and have to do this and that and to do it more and more, is something that can be obstacle, dam, close door for Divine Power. Yes, Divine Power destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah or Jericho Walls, BUT it can be very "Powerless" to change human minds and hearts. Because in case of Sodom and Jericho we talking about Naked Power. But when people are involved, this Spirit Force is on Next Level, in my opinion, on level of soft, gently, unobtrusively, discretely actions and effects...... After all, JHVH ask, plead for love by your free will.

Oh @JW Insider it's probably not worth the effort to answer you but I have a bit of time before my darling wife puts my dinner on the table for me.
Let's start with a Quote "You probably know that there were infamous cases of immorality that Paul referred to in his letters even to the very Corinthian congregations that Paul himself had "planted." 
Are look Paul made the immorality known. Whereas, the Elders of the JW congregations hid it all in leters to their HQ and in filing cabinets. Why did the elders hide it ? Because on instructions from the GB. That's why it is all coming into the open now. It follows scripture about 'nothing being hidden that will not be revealed' ...
Quote " But when the Org sees it as a problem, .. "  The Org didn't see it as a problem. It was put 'in their face' by victims of abuse. The problem the GB saw was the cost of the court cases and compensations. 
Why do you use examples of people 'of the world' such as Isaac Newton etc ? They were not 'supposed to be guided by God's Holy Spirit' were they ? 
Your GB pretend to be the 'Faithful and discreet slave' providing the PROPER FOOD at the RIGHT TIME'.  BUT they have to keep changing the food as they give poison instead. So how can they be guided by God to do that ? Do you really think God deliberately misguides His people ? 
Quote "I can't see how it "suits themselves."  The Armageddon threats are obviously to frighten people to get baptised and serve the JW Org. I'm sure we've had quotes on here where the Watchtowers would say the only way to 'get saved' through Armageddon was to be in the Org. More members = more donations.  But then, as with the 7,000 year creative days, it all falls apart and can be seen as lies.  
Quote "the inability to question 1914" ? Are you suggesting more lies ? 
Quote "It's now just a matter of fully implementing the processes that have been put in place." And the two witness rule, what of that ? I'm sure in my own mind that the scripture was not for that use. 
Quote " I  think we agree completely on shunning. I have no doubt at all that we have been implementing the shunning practice in an unchristian, unscriptural, and unloving manner. "
So are we looking at a 100% turnaround on it then ? I very much doubt that.  Remember ,'By their works you will know them'.
Quote " I would never claim we are more moral than any other group of people.".  That's one thing we can agree on then.  
But that being the case, thousands of JW's are hypocrites. So it's an unclean Org. 
Quote "If enough Witnesses perform their Christian duty, however, even a mass of disfellowshippings will automatically produce changes. "
I was hoping for a mass 'leaving the JW Org when I left, but it didn't happen. I was hoping that would have produced change.
Enough for now , my wife is calling me to dinner. 

You surely don't compare your situation with that of Paul's conversion to Christianity do you? Is that the result of your "having studied the bible" yourself? The only similarity apparent is what Jesus said at Acts 26:14.
I think you will find that those who "go out" from the Christian congregation due to being of the "wrong sort" actualy fit the description of those in Jesus' illustration of the dragnet as "unsuitable fish" (wrong sort). They are thrown out by the angels, regardless of any illusion they might have of leaving of their own volition.
But then of course, as to an individual judgement of such ones, jthe final estimation  of their actual worth lies with Jehovah and the man he has appointed. With the right heart, they can still return if they become the right sort. (Of course, even that is by Jehovah's permission as it is he that "draws" men to Christ).
However you want to view it, you are not of our sort at present, and the generally patronising tone and insulting content of these postings you make suggest a heart that is abundant in rather unpleasant things at the moment. You and your former congregation are better off the way things are currently. Likely. the same applies to the video makers in the original posting.

Whether this is deliberate or not is a matter of opinion of course. In any case, I would hesitate to say that anyone makes deliberate mistakes unless they are truly evil. So you are suggesting that the GB are evil. Well, I do not think they are evil.
No one condones Pedophilia.
You make very general sweeping statements here about what and how Witnesses believe. Most of the Witnesses I know (I would say 99.9%) have a deep and private relationship with God themselves, with Jesus as their mediator. It must be just your idea to somehow involve a third party, the GB,  in this relationship. I do not know anyone who does that!

In God I trust.
All others pay cash!

BillyTheKid46:
I have somewhere in my 12TB array of 4TB USB hard drives documents from the WT that prove all the assertions you deny here and now. In about two days time I could find, correlate and present them to you .... but in the meantime my recollections only will have to give testimony that you are suffering from a major case of agenda driven WDS .
Since you are a Jehovah's Witness in good standing, I will give you a 20% discount to search for them, print them out for you and mail them to you .... after your check clears the bank.
My usual rate is $105 an hour, and I would need a two day's retainer to get started.  I would refund any funds not used.
Care to put your money where your mouth is?
 
 

I had a Brother call me up at 7:30 in the morning, many years ago, asking in desperate need if I had any money I could lend him.  I checked my resources, and told him I had $4.00, which I was planning to use for lunch money that day, but he was welcome to that.
...... and he hung up on me.
That hamburger at lunch was especially delicious !

OK. I see where you are coming from on this now. I don't know that the GB instructed the hiding from authorities and others in the congregation, but they certainly have known about the hiding, and have gone along with it, and could have ordered exposure of the problem instead of continued hiding. (In the past, hiding apparently happened in most, but not in all cases.) From that perspective, exposure of such crimes and sins would undoubtedly have reduced the problem. Especially the problem of repeat offenders. There are some cases that will probably never come to light in this system due to the systemic nature of trying to protect the reputation of an organization and leaders at the expense of protecting children.
They were late in their correct responses to this problem, in my opinion, but they do see it as a problem. Even if it's exposure and cost. But I know that many have seen it as a problem of justice for the victims, too. Unfortunately, that had previously been dismissed by some in power as less important.
Just an analogy to show how someone can be both right and wrong at the same time.
There are huge scriptural problems with this claim of the GB to be the exact and complete fulfillment of the FDS. I've dealt with that elsewhere. But we can't forget that it is a Christian duty to try to feed spiritual food to fellow Christians. The GB truly believe this is their duty and they also know that they are not perfect, and must admit to providing wrong guidance at times and sometimes bad spiritual food, too, in the form of false doctrines and false predictions. They probably thought them right at the time, but you are right, that it was not all 'food at the proper time.' 
People guided by God have made mistakes in Biblical times, when the very same persons had the privilege of seeing Jesus personally, or were even inspired at other times to write books of the Bible. Yet, the GB make no such claim about themselves that they are inspired in this same way. They feel that intensive Bible study, organizational experience, faith in Jehovah, meditation and prayer will all combine in some spiritual way to guide them. Other people have made claims that they claim inspiration, and the distinction gets blurry. And some Witnesses teach "present" truth as immutable in such a way that they, too, have blurred the distinction. In any case, God is not misguiding. It's just that people are so imperfect that we must learn to trust and obey God as ruler rather than sons of men in whom no salvation belongs.
No. The inability to question something is often because something just seems so clear and obvious that we just can't imagine that it could ever be wrong. Or it has been repeated so often that we can't imagine it could be wrong. We don't question things we are "sure" of. It happens to all of us, and then we might be surprised some day to find out we were wrong after all. But by not questioning, we probably will never have to find out.
So the early Corinthian congregation must also have been an unclean organization. Jesus' organization of his apostles must have been an unclean organization, too.
I think it will come close to that. It won't come immediately, but there will be some countries soon, I think, where we won't be allowed to preach unless we stop shunning family members for example. We will agree, and shunning will become a personal, private thing. Most Witnesses don't want to shun, we just do it because we are told it is loving. When there is no longer any threat of getting in trouble for not shunning, most of us will see that it is more loving not to shun. The change will happen organically from that point.
Food at the proper time.

Oh @JW Insider it's probably not worth the effort to answer you but I have a bit of time before my darling wife puts my dinner on the table for me.
Let's start with a Quote "You probably know that there were infamous cases of immorality that Paul referred to in his letters even to the very Corinthian congregations that Paul himself had "planted." 
Are look Paul made the immorality known. Whereas, the Elders of the JW congregations hid it all in leters to their HQ and in filing cabinets. Why did the elders hide it ? Because on instructions from the GB. That's why it is all coming into the open now. It follows scripture about 'nothing being hidden that will not be revealed' ...
Quote " But when the Org sees it as a problem, .. "  The Org didn't see it as a problem. It was put 'in their face' by victims of abuse. The problem the GB saw was the cost of the court cases and compensations. 
Why do you use examples of people 'of the world' such as Isaac Newton etc ? They were not 'supposed to be guided by God's Holy Spirit' were they ? 
Your GB pretend to be the 'Faithful and discreet slave' providing the PROPER FOOD at the RIGHT TIME'.  BUT they have to keep changing the food as they give poison instead. So how can they be guided by God to do that ? Do you really think God deliberately misguides His people ? 
Quote "I can't see how it "suits themselves."  The Armageddon threats are obviously to frighten people to get baptised and serve the JW Org. I'm sure we've had quotes on here where the Watchtowers would say the only way to 'get saved' through Armageddon was to be in the Org. More members = more donations.  But then, as with the 7,000 year creative days, it all falls apart and can be seen as lies.  
Quote "the inability to question 1914" ? Are you suggesting more lies ? 
Quote "It's now just a matter of fully implementing the processes that have been put in place." And the two witness rule, what of that ? I'm sure in my own mind that the scripture was not for that use. 
Quote " I  think we agree completely on shunning. I have no doubt at all that we have been implementing the shunning practice in an unchristian, unscriptural, and unloving manner. "
So are we looking at a 100% turnaround on it then ? I very much doubt that.  Remember ,'By their works you will know them'.
Quote " I would never claim we are more moral than any other group of people.".  That's one thing we can agree on then.  
But that being the case, thousands of JW's are hypocrites. So it's an unclean Org. 
Quote "If enough Witnesses perform their Christian duty, however, even a mass of disfellowshippings will automatically produce changes. "
I was hoping for a mass 'leaving the JW Org when I left, but it didn't happen. I was hoping that would have produced change.
Enough for now , my wife is calling me to dinner.