JOHN BUTLER

It really is not about rejecting the organization, it's because not everyone who has faith in God qualifies to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. It's about rejecting God's standards. For example, you may have faith in God, but believe the Trinity. Or you may have faith in God but see nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas, or practicing homosexuality, or living an immoral life style, or smoking......etc.

Practice and tolerance of what is wrong, often times comes very quietly and imperceptibly.
If the premise is correct; the devil rules the world and seduces people. In that case; devil can and do every trickery to spoil what is true and right and justice/correct. In that light, WTJWORG are NOT IMMUNE on the same. Human History, or if you wish more precisely, Bible History, from Adam to nowadays proves this simple and cruel reality.
Every single free moral agent, free will human, proves one and single fact - all are corruptible, can be spoiled by bad and half true or by lie. 
To have the conviction that an individual or organization is in every respect correct and "having the truth" (religious or some other moral truth) is often the way to appear, to happen just the opposite. Perhaps not necessary on every particular issue. Problem that exist is in this; Organization ask from you, even demand from you to be loyal to all doctrines. They not allows your personal choice to "pick" what you feel as truth, but to carry all what they as Organization found to be The Truth.  
Sometimes, a certain Dilemma, before which we sometimes find ourselves, is the moment when we can be relieved of the trap of the deception in which we fall. But the liberation process of this kind does not always succeed. The fallacy, which is within us, provides a strong resistance and people around us (power of collective/group), who are loyal to the same deceit, working to encourage us to stay in the trap. 

You know what I think is the most enjoyable part of this question and responses? It is that, yes it is silly and comical because of the ridiculousness of the question, it points out the exact same when applied to blood fractions within jws. I know that is the obvious, but you then have those who will make the disgust look on their face (like they smelled something bad) and explain how child like a comment like this is, not realizing that they are promoting exactly the same position. Not only promoting it, but living out such nonsense. 
Do not tell the emperor he has no clothes!!!!

I spent about two hours in the hospital today havin' my very first colonoscopy ... where you lay on your side and a room full of people put tools and cameras up your butt, to see if you have mushrooms growing there ... and I had six baby mushrooms aborted before they developed fangs and ate me while alive. 
Although the probability of excessive bleeding was very low, ... "things happen", and I insisted on no blood or blood fractions, as is my custom ..... so I think Jack Ryan's question is valid, pertinent, and IMPORTANT.
Having that PRINCIPLE firmly answered in one's own mind is the beginning of truth. liberty and freedom from enslavement to the minds of men, and even the vagaries and delusions that we hold dear in our own little minds, made mostly of fat.
The TRUTH will make you free ... anything else will enslave you.
Afterwards, because I had not eaten anything for 36 hours before the procedure, I came home and had a HUGE ham sandwich Hoagie/Grinder.
I even enjoyed the Oink.
 
 
 
 
 

Would a Hebrew have understood the prohibition on pork as meaning he had to avoid "major" pig fractions (ham, bacon, ribs) but "minor" pig fractions like pickled feet and fried pork rinds were ok?

One more link, we can both perceive what's on the other side of the GB's veneer.

Pearl Doxsey and I work together; both of us are anointed.  I quote pieces of her articles in some comments I place here, and give mention to the names of topics that one can research on her blog.  With her help and what she has written, I now understand how Revelation’s judgments  pertains to God’s “saints” and those with them. 
I’m not upset at all, John  No man, no person should have authority over us and expect obedience.  Our obedience is to God and Jesus and his Word.  John 8:31,3  Whatever is presented by Pearl and myself is up to the reader to judge if it is “good fruit” and “fruit that will last”, as sourced in Holy Spirit from Jesus Christ. Matt 7:15-20; John 15:16; 13:20; (Matt 23:34)
Preposterous.  You are in the UK, I am in the states, on the far side of the country.  I am a woman; and you, I gather, are the man in the picture.  Our only link is that both of us appear to have suffered from child abuse.   He's upset that I compare him with Foreigner, and the other identities that he swears he doesn't use.   (I had forgotten about Felix the Cat) I view it as a conundrum when it comes to telling the truth -  when I compare his actions to the religion he professes to follow - "the truth".   
Sounds like he's trying his best at using a straw man argument.  

Could anyone disobeying the High Priest and the Sanhedrin be a true servant of God ? Oh yes it was Jesus.
Could anyone condemning the Pharisees be a true servant of God ? Yes once again Jesus.
And which of the disciples/apostles was it said 'We must serve God as ruler rather than men' ? Was it Paul. 
Billy you have no idea. How many times have the Watchtower writers condemned the Catholic Church, and it has been passed as ok by the GB. 
There are how many different types of 'Christianity' ? And you would not 'sow discourse' against any of them ? 
As for interfering with the police doing their duty, i think it has happened within the JW Org. And the Org tried to stop the Charity Commision carrying out their investigation here in the UK. 
As for who is Anointed and who isn't, is it our place to judge ? Let God through Jesus Christ be the judge. 
And wasn't there an actual video of a brother telling Elders to destroy evidence because 'the devil is coming after the Org'. 
I do wish my memory was better on these things. 
 
 

Could anyone disobeying the High Priest and the Sanhedrin be a true servant of God ? Oh yes it was Jesus.
Could anyone condemning the Pharisees be a true servant of God ? Yes once again Jesus.
And which of the disciples/apostles was it said 'We must serve God as ruler rather than men' ? Was it Paul. 
Billy you have no idea. How many times have the Watchtower writers condemned the Catholic Church, and it has been passed as ok by the GB. 
There are how many different types of 'Christianity' ? And you would not 'sow discourse' against any of them ? 
As for interfering with the police doing their duty, i think it has happened within the JW Org. And the Org tried to stop the Charity Commision carrying out their investigation here in the UK. 
As for who is Anointed and who isn't, is it our place to judge ? Let God through Jesus Christ be the judge. 
And wasn't there an actual video of a brother telling Elders to destroy evidence because 'the devil is coming after the Org'. 
I do wish my memory was better on these things. 
 
 

Could anyone disobeying the High Priest and the Sanhedrin be a true servant of God ? Oh yes it was Jesus.
Could anyone condemning the Pharisees be a true servant of God ? Yes once again Jesus.
And which of the disciples/apostles was it said 'We must serve God as ruler rather than men' ? Was it Paul. 
Billy you have no idea. How many times have the Watchtower writers condemned the Catholic Church, and it has been passed as ok by the GB. 
There are how many different types of 'Christianity' ? And you would not 'sow discourse' against any of them ? 
As for interfering with the police doing their duty, i think it has happened within the JW Org. And the Org tried to stop the Charity Commision carrying out their investigation here in the UK. 
As for who is Anointed and who isn't, is it our place to judge ? Let God through Jesus Christ be the judge. 
And wasn't there an actual video of a brother telling Elders to destroy evidence because 'the devil is coming after the Org'. 
I do wish my memory was better on these things. 
 
 

Like you say Tom nothing is certain until it happens and even then nothing has happened until is if proven, well according to GB rules anyway....  But having feelings about things is surely how police and detectives work. If you don't have suspicion about a crime you would never investigate anything. 

Dream on Tom. 

The investigation allegedly feared that the revelations in the programme might lead the movement's leaders to destroy incriminating evidence...
 Matt 10:26b - For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.
 

@BillyTheKid46 I said it would be sensible to me and that you would not think it sensible. 
We are both totally off topic and we will never agree on things concerning God or how God should be served through Christ. 
You say that ", JW’s encourage everyone to KNOW God personally by means of Jesus sacrifice" 
But the memorial is just one occasion per year. The rest of the time JW's try to tell people that they can only serve God through the JW Org. Quite a difference i think. 
Where does any of this factor into that equation when people are NOT willing to follow bible principles.
If you truly believe that the GB and it's Org 'follow bible principles' that is your choice. 
However by doing some research and having an open mind I have found differently. 
As for 'rethinking Christianity', do you just mean knuckle down and do as I'm told by the JW Org ? 
Or do you mean, as I am doing, having an open mind and listening to every one that makes comments here and elsewhere ? 
No i haven't found direction yet. But I haven't given up either. I'm a sinner like any other. However i think I will be dead for a long time before the Judgement Day arrives. I'm prepared to be judged for all my faults and mistakes. God is merciful  and forgiving and so is Jesus Christ. 
I am not in opposition to God or Christ, I'm just in opposition to a false religion or a religion that has gone off track. 

Dream on Tom. 

I had you in mind when I wrote the above, John, and I honestly feel sorry for you.
Though apparently wrapped in a newfound ‘personal relationship with Jesus,’ you have acknowledged that your conduct has worsened since leaving Jehovah’s Witnesses.
You should strive to get your act together on this, and salvage what remains. In time, you can once again make progess in actually applying Christianity.

The thing is some people afraid of statistics. This is the case I make with those of mainstream Christendom, for they are afraid of what the demographics show concerning them. They would also go as far as to pain and erroneous picture on Christian minorities.
That being said, if one person says someone's adherents is on a rapid decline and the other says it has increased, with prove to make it up, who is truly in slander? Clearly, someone who swims about in the sea of his or her own hypocrisy.
Other than that, these people are everywhere, all of them of different cultures, hence the different attire (modest). I do not see how blind people get if they cannot see this for themselves.

Hi, I also wonder, why @Foreigner giving me so much red arrows too ? ...... and not giving any comments on my post, just downvote reaction :))))) perhaps man only know to read and not to write. Even i can write with my poor English  :))))))) 
Thank you very much, to all who reading my comments and have understanding and patience for my grammar  

God is building His spiritual House, which is soon to be completed.   The early Jews received fair warning of this house to come, when Jesus said,  “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.  John 2:19-22
We remember that Jesus said this after seeing the business conducted in the temple by the moneychangers.  He lashed out in anger; and using a ‘whip of cords’ overturned their tables of money, driving both animals and money-changers out of the temple.  In order to worship at the temple, this corrupt commerce of trade had developed.    
And He said to those who sold doves, “Take these things away! Do not make My Father’s house a house of merchandise!” 17 Then His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for Your house has eaten Me up.”  John 2:16,17
Luke 19:46 reads:   Then He taught, saying to them, “Is it not written, ‘My house shall be called A HOUSE OF PRAYER for all nations’? But you have made it a ‘DEN OF THIEVES.’ ”
The account took place around this time of year, just before the Passover, which was a busy time at the temple and ample opportunity for the Pharisees to take advantage of the people.  They supported high prices to not only exchange foreign currency, but to sell sacrificial offerings of all kinds to those who desired to worship in the temple.  The high priest of the temple, Annas, who held the office with the official high priest Caiaphas, was called by Josephus the historian, “a great hoarder up of money”.  (John 18:13)
As it was, the “chief cornerstone” of the new Temple God had planned to “build”, was largely rejected by Jews and its leaders.  Matt 23:37,38 
The Watchtower Insight in the Scriptures comments on “cornerstone”:
“Paul showed that members of the Christian congregation had been built up “upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, while Christ Jesus himself is the foundation cornerstone,” in union with whom the whole building harmoniously joined together “is growing into A HOLY TEMPLE for Jehovah,” a place for Him to inhabit by spirit.—Eph 2:19-22.”
Who specifically comprise the Christian congregation?    The Insight Book continues:
Psalm 118:22 discloses that the stone rejected by the builders would become “the head of the corner” (Heb., roʼsh pin·nahʹ). Jesus quoted and applied this prophecy to himself as “the chief cornerstone” (Gr., ke·pha·leʹ go·niʹas, head of the corner). (Mt 21:42; Mr 12:10, 11; Lu 20:17) Just as the topmost stone of a building is conspicuous, so Jesus Christ is the crowning stone of the Christian congregation OF ANOINTED ONES, which is likened to a SPIRITUAL TEMPLE. Peter also applied Psalm 118:22 to Christ, showing that he was “the stone” rejected by men but chosen by God to become “the head of the corner.”—Ac 4:8-12; see also 1Pe 2:4-7.  
Is this clear to you, JWs?  Can you see that the anointed “living stones” comprise the Body of Christ who is their Head?  Eph 4:11,12,15; 5:23; To clarify further on Watchtower’s guarded wording, this spiritual temple IS the Temple of God.    1 Pet 2:5-9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16  
Please notice your “Examining the Scriptures” for today, Friday, April 19th:
“The builders,” the Jewish leaders, rejected the Messiah. Their rejection was far more than just turning their backs on Jesus or refusing to accept him as the Christ. Many Jews rejected him to the point of clamoring for his death. (Luke 23:18-23) Yes, they contributed to Jesus’ being killed. If Jesus was rejected and killed, how could he become “the chief cornerstone”? That could come about only by his being resurrected to life again. The apostle Peter spoke of “Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you executed on a stake but whom God raised up from the dead.” (Acts 3:15; 4:5-11; 1 Pet. 2:5-7) This resurrected Son thus became the only one whose name was “given among men by which we must get saved.”—Acts 4:12; Eph. 1:20. W 17.12 9-10 par. 6-9  
JWs, today’s modern-day Pharisees also do not uphold the chief cornerstone. They do not recognize Jesus as our source of salvation, that he is the only “name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”  Why do I say this? It is because another “cornerstone” has been set in place, and another name for salvation has been devised.   Describing the Hebrew rendition of “cornerstone”, the Insight Book states:
Some translations use “cornerstone(s)” to render a Hebrew word (pin·nahʹ), which carries the basic thought of “corner” but is also used metaphorically for a chief as a ‘corner’ of defense or support, hence for a KEYMAN. Thus, at Isaiah 19:13 certain translations use “cornerstone(s)” (RS; AT; AS), whereas others use “chiefs” (Le) and “leaders” (Mo), agreeing basically with the New World Translation rendering “keymen.” (See also Jg 20:2;1Sa 14:38; Zec 10:4, where the Hebrew is literally “the corner tower(s),” these being pictorial of important or vital men, or chiefs.) Such an application of ‘corner’ to a keyman seems significant in view of the symbolic application of “cornerstone” in Messianic prophecy. 
Yes, Jesus is the “keyman, chief, leader”, Head of his anointed Body, who defends his people when they turn to him DIRECTLY for support. Isa 40:10,11; Dan 12:1; Joel 2:11; John 10:11;1 Pet 5:4; Rev 3:12; 19:11   However, is HE the head of the Watchtower organization as well?  Is HE the High Priest of a corporation when we know he rejected all earthly treasures and power offered to him by Satan? Matt 4:8-10; Heb 7:26; 9:11   
 Absolutely not.
His authority has been seized, specifically over his anointed “living stones”.  They obey whom they physically see – new keymen, new leaders over a new, spiritual “temple” comprised of a congregation of people from all tribes, tongues and nations. Isa 51:23; Luke 18:8; 2 Cor 11:4; 1 Cor 3:11; Rev 13:1,5-8 
These new “chiefs” are as well accepted as the high priest Annas was.  Josephus states - “he increased in glory every day, and this to a great degree, and had obtained the favor and esteem of the citizens in a signal manner”. 
Let’s see what this new spiritual temple is called:
“Today, millions join in true worship, and they are moved from the heart to contribute their “valuable things,” which include their time, energy, and resources in support of JEHOVAH’S GREAT SPIRITUAL TEMPLE. (Prov. 3:9) .
All that has been accomplished for true worship in these last days is tangible evidence of Jehovah’s blessing and Christ’s leadership. WE ARE PART OF A STABLE, SECURE, AND EVERLASTING ORGANIZATION.Wt 17.1029
Scattered among these millions of people are members of God’s priesthood, but barely recognized as belonging to the authentic temple in Christ.  Your “builders” who have raised a “great spiritual temple” or “mountainlike organization” and which looms over all with threats to shun nonconformists, is prophesied to come against the anointed remnant in the last days.  This is the stark, dark reality hidden under its attractive veneer, JWs.  Dan 11:37-39; Rev 20:7-9; Rev 8:8; Zech 4:7,9  
 With human help, Satan has accomplished his great feat, which is to dissolve all knowledge of God’s authentic Temple in Christ. Dan 8:13,24; 7:25; 12:7; Rev 11:1,2  Revelation calls it the dragon’s “Beast from the Sea”; which is directed by a composite “false prophet”/Beast with “two horns”.  Dan 7:7; Rev 13:1,2,11,15 The defining aspect of the Beast from the Sea is its “war” against God’s Temple/sanctuary – against the Temple “stones” that it holds in captivity.  No other worldly organization fulfills this prophesy. Zeph 1:15; 2 Thess 2:4; Rev 13:7,8   
By WT leaders’ rejection of God’s authentic spiritual Temple in Christ, they have rejected the “chief cornerstone”, replacing him with themselves as “keymen” who direct a counterfeit priesthood to rule over God’s authentic priests, effectively trampling down their existence.    Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2; Rev 13:14,15; 19:20
Refer again to Friday’s “daily text” –
Their rejection was far more than just turning their backs on Jesus or refusing to accept him as the Christ.  Many Jews rejected him to the point of clamoring for his death. (Luke 23:18-23) Yes, they contributed to Jesus’ being killed. If Jesus was rejected and killed, how could he become “the chief cornerstone”?
Another “killing” is occurring at the hands of your leaders, JWs; that of the “ambassadors of Christ”. 2 Cor 5:20   For those bold enough to speak truth about the existence of God’s Temple and its only Head, they are “killed”, disfellowshipped by “uncircumcised” elders.   Luke 21:12; John 16:2; Rev 11:7; 13:15; Rom 2:28,29    It is not a matter of ‘just turning their backs’, on anointed who speak truth, but it is a swift judgment of spiritual “death”. Prov 19:6,7; Isa 66:5; Rom 14:4 
For those brave enough to say there is “no other name under heaven by which we must get saved” which is a total rejection of the IDOL, they lose the life they have known for the sake of their Head, Jesus Christ. Matt 5:11; 10:22; 16:25 Many fellow believers in Christ have suffered the same outcome.  Matt 10:39 
JWs, thievery is being committed by your leaders on many fronts. Col 2:8 You, personally, have been robbed of the knowledge of Christ, his priesthood and the Temple of God.  Matt 11:28; John 4:10; Rom 8:16,17,19 
 Under the rule of a “wicked slave”, you have been robbed of each anointed one’s gift given them, to serve the children of God. Mal 2:7; Luke 16:1-3; Matt 24:48-51; 1 Cor 12:4-11; Eph 4:16; Rev 22:17  
You have been robbed of the blessings of priestly sacrifices made to God, that are now replaced with sacrifices to an idol. Dan 8:11,12,38; Ezek 8:5-10   
You now put your faith in an organization, breaking the law of God, which requires giving Him exclusive devotion. Exod 20:5; Isa 42:8; 46:5; Mark 12:29,30; Rev 13:8 
Even though you may speak of God and Jesus Christ, you believe that salvation is obtainable from the organization, as long as you obey the direction of its “keymen”.    Rev 13:4, 11-14
On the “steps” of God’s Temple in the anointed ones, Watchtower leaders have positioned a “marketplace” for their idol, where JWs “buy” spiritual food; bought not only with literal donations, but with physical slavery in order to be privileged to worship there. Matt 6:24; Rom 6:16; Rev 13:16,17  How many times do JWs hear, “what a privilege it is to serve in Jehovah’s organization”?  
Sadly, Christ’s priests are engaging in the same idolatrous worship, robbing themselves not only of the refined gold that Christ offers if they would just open the door, but they will lose their place in the Temple of God.  Rev 2:20; Matt 25:6-13; Dan 11:35; Rev 3:18; Matt 21:42-44    
Please, for any JW reading this, consider these excerpts from Pearl Doxsey’s article, “YHVH’S GENUINE MOUNTAIN”:
Satan has the power to create "mountains" during his present reign over the world (1 John 5:19; Rev 17:9).
"Again, the devil took him to an exceedingly high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and their glory." Matt 4:8
These mountains, include religious ones (Rev 17:9).
Yhwh says that in the time of the end, there is a mountain which must become level ground...IN PREPARATION FOR THE KINGDOM...
[...a mountain which God will destroy; (Zech 4:7; Rev 8:8)].
We must be certain that we are not putting our trust in the counterfeit mountain.
(Luke 3:5; Mal 3:1; Rev 14:6,7; Isa 46:11; Haggai 2:7) (Rev 13:8; 16:2)  
Counterfeit mountain?
Yes.

The scriptures also tell us of a TRUE Mountain which DOES provide shelter and salvation. Survival depends upon the guidance of scripture, to give us the ability to discern the Genuine, from the Counterfeit.
Is the Organization made up of the 144,000? 
Or,
is its backbone and body almost entirely made up of those who are not even Chosen Ones? Who do you see as representatives of the Organization within your own Congregation?....the anointed "ambassadors" of Christ (2 Cor 5:20; Rom 2:29; 1 Cor 6:2,3), or spiritual Gentiles (Elders) who have raised themselves up over God's Chosen Priests? (2 Thess 2:4; Rev 11:1,2; Mark 13:14)   

"Now faith is confidence in what we HOPE FOR and assurance about WHAT WE DO NOT SEE. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for. By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, WHOSE ARCHITECT AND BUILDER IS GOD. they were longing for a better country—a HEAVENLY one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for HE HAS PREPARED A CITY for them."  Heb 11:1,2,8,10,16; Rev 21:2   

So...does YHWH have a "mountainlike" Organization?
Yes. An administration of priests, "hand-picked" by God to become heirs of the earth, to the blessing of all Creation.   (Eph 1:9-12; 1 Pet 2:9,10; Rom 8:19; Gal 3:29; Gen 13:14; 28:14; Heb 2:5,16; Rev 22:1,2; Eze 34:27)
JWs, when you observe your Memorial of the New Covenant that Jesus, the fulfilled promise of a seed to the nation of Israel, established with the foundation stones of his anointed Temple, remember that the sealed anointed are also a promise for a seed…  Rom 9:8; Gal 3:7,14,29; 4:28,31,26; Heb 11:26; Isa 61:8 
Pearl Doxsey continues:     
“When that seed arrives, the covenant is fulfilled .  (Rom 8:24,25; Rev 12:1,2,5; 2:26,27)
Those who accept and "listen to" that seed, "bless themselves"  (Jer 12:16; Matt 5:14; 10:40; 1 Tim 4:16; Gen 17:7,19; Luke 1:55)
These will be appointed over all the earth (Gen 28:13,14; 13:14; Ps 2:8; 45:16; Matt 24:46,47; Rev 5:10; 20:6)
Those who persecute and destroy that seed, are in turn, destroyed . (Isa 57:13; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:7; 20:10,14; 2 Thess 2:8)
So you see, the New Covenant/Promise, also becomes fulfilled, and ends . (Mark 14:24; 1 Cor 11:26; Heb 1:6; 10:13; Rev 5:9,10; Eph 1:4-12; Rev 7:4; 14:1)
At that time, the building of GOD’S spiritual house, will be finished. 
 
Pearl Doxsey, 4womaninthewilderness blogspot
“Jew” or “Gentile”?
“End of the New Covenant”
 
 
 

That's not his best white dress shirt?

This reminds me of an apocryphal story of a brother all nervous because he was to be working with the circuit overseer, and he wanted everything to be just so, something he never would have cared about otherwise.
So he pressed his suit, but got distracted.
”Brother, don’t you have a suit jacket other than this one?” said the CO later in service, glancing behind at the heavy black iron mark on the coat’s back. Maybe this brother did the same with his best white dress shirt.

.... I was once called down from the platform, because I had a blue shirt, instead of a white shirt.
It looks like this Brother solved that problem.

Hence my comment that it may not be a good translation, and, it may be fake news. 
 

You think so ?   JW's being 'no part of the world' etc. 
However do you think the article is true ? 
If it is is seems totally out of character. 
 

2 points.
1. this was translated into English so may not be completely accurately translated 
2. It may be fake news.