JOHN BUTLER

@BillyTheKid46 If you are referring to me then please explain to me my 'ideology' as you seem to pretend to know me better than i know myself
Quote "Therefore, for people like John, if a person is caught watching child porn versus someone getting caught for child molestation, this activist wants the same judgment and punishment."
Do I ?  I think not actually. If a JW commits a crime then I want that JW punished for that crime. 
How the Elders deal with the sin is down to GB rules, but how the authority deals with the crime is down to the Laws of that Land. 
In my opinion if any JW is found to be doing anything wrong in connection with / relating to / involving children, then it should be made known to the whole congregation asap. And in fairness to / showing love of neighbour, it should be made known to the local community too. Obviously it would only be made known after there was sufficient proof. 
Remembering the 'Good Samaritan' story which Jesus told, it had it's meaning of course. But if it were a true happening then there would have been an investigation to find and punish the robbers.  Anyone knowing who the criminals were would surely have to tell those in authority. It would surely have been their Christian duty to protect their neighbours. 
Do you really think it is right to hide such criminals within any organisation ? 
So returning to your comment Billy 'watching child porn or child molestation', both need reporting to the authorities and if they are JW's then both need reporting to the Elders. 
As you or others have said, the Elders are there to deal with spiritual matters not criminal matters. So there is a need to report it also to outside authorities that have the authority from God to deal with criminal matters. 

Well the scripture says speak to the congregation. But if a brother or sister did speak to the congregation they would be accused of 'causing a division in the congregation' 
And even when a person is disfellowshipped the reason is not given, it's kept hidden from the congregation..
Makes is soooo easy for them to disfellowship people easily for no scriptural reason.  Just the way one Elder threatened me. 
There are so many scriptures that prove that the GB and it's Org do not serve God through Christ. 
 

How sad that this person doesn’t see the attack on the “holy ones”, the anointed ones in the organization, as WT leaders slander them with the statements made in the January, 2016 WT, “We Want to Go With You” 
The sinning against the Holy Spirit, is by robbing the true identity of the Temple of God in the anointed priesthood, (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17) and applying it to an earthly organization in Satan’s world.
The sinning against the Holy Spirit is by robbing God of his anointed priesthood and replacing it with the elder body.  2 Thess 2:3,4
The sinning against the Holy Spirit is when an elder body deems an anointed one spiritually "dead" for turning to their Head, Jesus Christ; thus, rejecting apostasy. John 16:2  How many people have turned to Christ and left the Watchtower?  Does God really view them as dead for listening to His Son; for realizing he is the way, the truth, and the life?  John 14:6
All of this  spiritual "killing" is "bloodguilt".  
 
 
 

I cannot understand why anyone needs to put this video up anyway. There is enough truthful information to put the GB in their place already. The GB have done enough and put enough wicked rules in place to show their true personalities.  They also show that they have no love for God or people, just a need to rule over others. A need to keep the true Anointed apart and to have Elders ruling as policemen to keep all the congregants quiet. 
Your GB are just men, men that have no true understanding of God's written word. Men that do not have God guidance or God's holy spirit. They have proved that so many times. So yes this video is pointless. True or untrue it matters not, it's just pointless.
BUT, it wasn't ALL of us they put this video up,  and it wasn't ALL of us that approved of it. BTK likes to lump me in with others. SM likes to lump me in with others. And probably other people like to lump me in with others. Why ? Because it makes them feel good and it makes them feel secure. If they call all 'opponents' 'apostates' and whatever other name they wish to use, as one, it helps them to deal with people that tell the truth about the JW organisation. I can fully understand how they get hurt and how they are made to see the wickedness within the JW Org. But they don't wish to be shown. They only wish to serve their GB and it's Org. 
But whereas all JW's are JW's, not all of us that seek truth and make truth known about the JW Org are 'one'. We are all individuals and we have different ways of doing things and different priorities. So JW's may call any of us anything that please them. But remember that if you slander any of us, if you tell lies about any of us, then you place yourself in opposition to God. Treat me as a man of the nations or a Tax collector maybe ? But I have one advantage above those. I have been part of JW Org, I know how it works, I know the power that the Elders hold over congregants. Maybe i have only experienced it in Southern England, but the Org is the Org earthwide. Same GB, same rules, Elders have same power over congregants. 
Actually if the man did have a drink I could fully understand that he needs it.  He will have much to face from humans and from God in the future. 

Doesn't look like an edited video to me.

Understanding each other, to some level, yes. To explain my thoughts about WT list of sins and separation inside that list, and how that is not good, a little more.
For example: Shepherd book 2012
21. Deliberate, malicious lying; bearing false
witness: (Prov. 6:16, 19; Col. 3:9; Rev. 22:15; it-2
pp. 244-245) Though all lying is bad, judicial action
is taken only if there has been a practice of deliberate,
malicious lying. “Malicious” means deliberately
harmful, harboring ill will or enmity. Lying that justifies
judicial action involves more than just exaggerations
or petty, misleading statements of relatively
minor consequence or lying because of momentary
pressure or fear of man.—Matt. 26:69-75.
22. Generally, elders should not consider administering
discipline if a Christian charges another Christian
with making false statements in a court dispute.
For example, this may involve divorce, child custody
and support, and so forth. The Christian making the
charge can express his concerns to the court that has
the responsibility to determine what is truthful when
rendering a judgment.
Bible verses used in Elders book:
16 here are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: 17  haughty eyes, a lying tongue,  hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil 19    false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
9 Do not lie to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices, 
15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
In this and other WT Instructions about that how JW member are NOT ALWAYS OBLIGATED to TELL THE TRUTH, in other words how LIES are GOOD sometimes and not needed to be Judicially Processed is 100% opposite of what God has said in Bible. 
As I can remember what was written in Bible in other places too, God has never said (or gave that impression) how,  for certain lies there is a license, and that for some other lies there is a punishment. 
WT Elders by this given rule, as new moral principle, have free hand to establish illusory justice, illusory truth based on perverted idea how lie is truth and truth is lie. Isaiah spoke about that also.Woe to those who call evil good and good evil who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet  and sweet for bitter.
When JW Church leaders are ready to justify lies and not want to take disciplinary measures against liar than they are in opposition to God and to His words in Proverbs. Words they put in print in WTJWORG publications to explain how lie is not always a lie. Terrible!

@BillyTheKid46 If you are referring to me then please explain to me my 'ideology' as you seem to pretend to know me better than i know myself
Quote "Therefore, for people like John, if a person is caught watching child porn versus someone getting caught for child molestation, this activist wants the same judgment and punishment."
Do I ?  I think not actually. If a JW commits a crime then I want that JW punished for that crime. 
How the Elders deal with the sin is down to GB rules, but how the authority deals with the crime is down to the Laws of that Land. 
In my opinion if any JW is found to be doing anything wrong in connection with / relating to / involving children, then it should be made known to the whole congregation asap. And in fairness to / showing love of neighbour, it should be made known to the local community too. Obviously it would only be made known after there was sufficient proof. 
Remembering the 'Good Samaritan' story which Jesus told, it had it's meaning of course. But if it were a true happening then there would have been an investigation to find and punish the robbers.  Anyone knowing who the criminals were would surely have to tell those in authority. It would surely have been their Christian duty to protect their neighbours. 
Do you really think it is right to hide such criminals within any organisation ? 
So returning to your comment Billy 'watching child porn or child molestation', both need reporting to the authorities and if they are JW's then both need reporting to the Elders. 
As you or others have said, the Elders are there to deal with spiritual matters not criminal matters. So there is a need to report it also to outside authorities that have the authority from God to deal with criminal matters. 

Maybe this picture is Photoshop Propaganda from those who prefer Electronic Money aka Bitcoin :)))))) 

@Srecko Sostar....   My thinking too,  of sure false money.  Before Armageddon, the most people always running after such of  "free"  money!  In my eyes its a fake, sorry....

Wasn’t it Jesus pattern, whenever he sought to draw his disciples out with questions, to wait for them to answer before telling them what was what? This straying from his example alone makes me dubious.
In fact, my answer would have been different from the one you told me I should have. It would have been either 
1. How would I know?
or
2. I suppose so.
It would be the same as if you had asked me about the cabinet of some human government. Are they unified?  How would I know?
An assembly speaker (one of the Gentile elder Babylonian guardians, I suspect, or whatever you call them) spoke of the flow of holy spirit in one’s life & likened it to water coming from a hose. If you have turned the faucet on (asking for Holy Spirit, in his parallel) yet find that there is no water coming out the nozzle, you retrace the length of the hose to search for what you know you will find: a kink.
The fact that spiritual food comes in abundance for we lowly sheep & a considerable system of support comes with it suggests to me that there are no appreciable kinks in the gathering of the body of Christ & that whatever you are insisting that I must pay attention to is not the real thing.

Wasn't it Terrence O'Brien during the Australian Royal Commission, who said something to the effect, "we (those at the Branch) have been doing  this a lot longer than the governing body has..."
If God puts it in their hearts, it will be done.  With God, all things are possible.  Matt 19:26
 

Well the scripture says speak to the congregation. But if a brother or sister did speak to the congregation they would be accused of 'causing a division in the congregation' 
And even when a person is disfellowshipped the reason is not given, it's kept hidden from the congregation..
Makes is soooo easy for them to disfellowship people easily for no scriptural reason.  Just the way one Elder threatened me. 
There are so many scriptures that prove that the GB and it's Org do not serve God through Christ. 
 

Yeah! once again, the Terminator, brash as he is, nails it.
I like this reproduced letter, and judging from the wording, I even imagine I know which helper wrote it:
While I appreciate the concern of the brother who “witnessed” this, I also have some concerns about the assumptions made. Please keep in mind, there are a number of circumstances that others may not be aware of. For example, using the purchase in connection with visitors, graduates from Gilead or the Branch Committee School. Also, over what period of time will these [bottles] be used? As far as dedicated funds, some of our brothers had businesses prior to coming to Bethel. I will not get too personal on Brother Morris’s circumstances in that regard. It does point out that our dear brothers are a “theatrical spectacle,” so please assume the best of our dear brother. Thank you.
One can be forgiven for imagining @Jack Ryan is having steamy sex over in his domain, so orgasmic is he over this. He has posted TWELVE (at least) separate topics about this!
He is among the ones (those who have gone atheistic) who lectures everyone else about his superior skills of critical thinking. And yet he so clearly—you couldn’t ask for a better example—lets his wishful thinking drag him along as with hooks in his jaws. He leads with his heart, not with his head at all.
Look, IF the brother was a deadbeat flatout drunkard on someone else’s dime, then yes, this is a video that would be consistent with it. But BECAUSE there exists such a video, the reverse is not by any means true. Far more likely is it that one of the factors the Bethel helper mentions is the reality.
Anybody who knows how to think knows this is so, and yet Jack does not know it. He knows what he wants to think, and that is enough for him to fit any circumstance into his foregone conclusion. And yet he would boast of his “critical thinking” skills.
“While I appreciate the concern of the brother who “witnessed” this, I also have some concerns about the assumptions made. Please keep in mind, there are a number of circumstances that others may not be aware of,” the helper says.
No alcoholic could guzzle liquor the way Jack guzzles assumptions. And yet he would tell us that he has broken away from religion and has learned to use his intellect!
He is either incredibly deceitful or incredibly stupid. Take your pick,

Well the scripture says speak to the congregation. But if a brother or sister did speak to the congregation they would be accused of 'causing a division in the congregation' 
And even when a person is disfellowshipped the reason is not given, it's kept hidden from the congregation..
Makes is soooo easy for them to disfellowship people easily for no scriptural reason.  Just the way one Elder threatened me. 
There are so many scriptures that prove that the GB and it's Org do not serve God through Christ. 
 

But of course the GB and it's Org do not live by the scriptures. Hence they now have big problems. 

In the religious explanation of what is sin and how to deal with the person who makes the wrong things, the application of Jesus' words within the JW Church says that "minor" sins should be solved between the parties involved, but "greater" sins need to be reported to the elders at the assembly/congregation. This is the official WTJWORG doctrine.
The first dilemma that we are immediately noticed in the theological approach to these biblical paragraphs is seen in the unfounded separation of a certain human act into a small aka minor sin versus great aka big sin. WTJWORG had made a list of sins that were put in to two category by its nature; minor sins and gross sins. And of course there is third element in this issue of sins, and that is when something is questionable to such extension, that at very moment no one of Bible Scholars inside WTJWORG doesn't know the right answer, and as solution such issue is putted into so called "gray zone". 
If we agree in idea how Jesus Teaching/s is/are Sufficient for all "dilemmas" we might have in life than we can see from this Bible verses as follow:
15 “If your brother or sister[b] sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[d] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. - NIV
15  “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault* between you and him alone.n If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.o 16  But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony* of two or three witnesses every matter* may be established.*p 17  If he does not listen* to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen* even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nationsq and as a tax collector.r - NWT
1) Jesus not have a list of sins, either not making categorization of sins into minor, middle, gross, and so on. 
2) All sins have to be resolved firstly between involved parties (in our days this have to be viewed from other angles in cases of child molestation, for example)
3) Because there is no list of sins: What is viewed as sin in your eyes perhaps is not also a sin in the eyes of your neighbor. So, this first approach to other person may help to established some mutual foundation on someones act. 
4) Speaking about unresolved problem in a wider circle of people can be helpful if involved persons are in capacity to be involved in discussion. Word "witnesses" here refers of people who are able to testify about all what was said between you and him/her, you two who have problem. These are not witnesses of "wrongdoing".   
5) Making issue public is third step here. Public. Congregation is that public, not 1,2 or 3 elders. In front all congregation. 
6) If things are not resolved and you as plaintiff, claimant are not sattisfaied, or if whole congregation is against "sinner", how such person have to be treated? As man of nation and tax collector. How Jesus treated men of nation and tax collectors? Answer is clear to me. Is it to you?  

Ah I see, conform when it suits you  . But at least you got the point of my earlier comment. 
Quote "And of course, to YOU ... your thinking seems normal."
Wrong, nothing about me is normal.  Psychiatrists and psychologists have had a great time dealing with me. Some one must have made some money from the tablets too 
Adam was created normal. The rest of us just suffer our strange ways. 
When a person starts to understand that they are not 'normal' then life becomes a lot easier. 
As for your 'agenda driven thinking.' bit, well you are starting to sound like TTH. 
I have no agendas, my life is too full since leaving that Org. Hence I spend less time on here.  
Unless of course you mean exposing the GB and the JW Org for what it really is, that is called having purpose. Meaningful warnings to others is not an agenda. Just because some folks like to hide behind the curtain and pretend all is well, doesn't mean that in reality all is well. 
 

Criticise away Kid you know you love it.  I'm sure we can all take it. 
Do all your pedophile Elders and congregants think they are Christians too ?  And all those that worship your GB, do they think they are Christians ? Get real Kid, see the truth in all of it.  Come down out of the clouds. 

@TrueTomHarley TTH, the man who writes books and makes fun of everyone else. The man who thinks he can just brush over everything and everyone by his stupid remarks. Make people laugh then they will forget. 
Is that the latest idea from the GB ? Grow up Tom. Take on some responsibility, you are 'supposed' to be servant of God after all.  
Well you probably think you are. But you seem to lack patience and self control. Very picky in what you will watch and listen to and read. 
So how do you learn anything ? By only reading the things which you feel will please you ?  A bit unbalanced ?
But then it seems JW 's have to be unbalanced to stay in the Org without knowing the truth about it. 

Criticise away Kid you know you love it.  I'm sure we can all take it. 
Do all your pedophile Elders and congregants think they are Christians too ?  And all those that worship your GB, do they think they are Christians ? Get real Kid, see the truth in all of it.  Come down out of the clouds. 

Alastor Wiggins, the world champion one legged tap dancer who had his wooden leg completely eaten off by woodpeckers?

I will ask you this first.  In the organization, IS the anointed Body of Christ united under the Watchtower’s regulations?
Watchtower 16/1 pg 24:  In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study. (Gal. 1:15-17) Such efforts would cause divisions within the congregation and work against the holy spirit, which promotes peace and unity. 
So, no, they are not unified.  Who stands in their way?  Who makes sure they don’t become unified? 

I understand you, but you have a sense on interjecting things into a situation and assume things to quickly with very little information.
Well you should have been much more clearer next time. If you do not quote people it will lead to such responses such as this. Because the other times where you reference a response to be without quoting, you made the response direct to me by merely saying SM. To which half the time I made comment of that.
How hard is it to simply use half a second to click the icon? It's simple, one click @JOHN BUTLER 
In the United States. Not only the title says such, but the article itself points to it and where the crimes are being committed.
But you generalize the people and make assumptions out of mere speculations. There is already those of the county who make speculations of the LGBTQ community regarding such.
You will soon have to. There is a problem in which you deem is unclean, a problem in which effects you in someway, there should be a sense of care, regardless. You said it best, Butler, earth-wide. And it is not just religion, it is in every aspect of such a sense. The problem is not within the Jehovah's Witnesses, but of others also, not even us Unitarians, regardless of denomination, are immune either.
But you are jumping to conclusions when we do not really have a whole lot of people, just like those who were quick to jump to homosexuality, which seems to be the case with what took place months ago regarding a cake.
We can see that by the article, Butler. The time frame tells us there has been previous linked attacks against their church, which is why some would deem it as a religious hate crime in some degree.
Points or speculation without legitimate fact? Follow the story and eventually it will piece itself together.
I had agreed with some points you made in the past, you did the same in my case, but using a based assumption and or speculation to a situation that has little to no information is kind of jumping the gun. And time and time again people had spoken up about religious activity in the US, especially when it comes to Christians alone. Being ignorant of what is going on shows when people use little discernment, especially with the fact we had that whole fiasco with the black flag years ago and what came after that. Reasons why Christians are vigilante, and they are aware of such things.
The same to you, Butler. I strongly advise you look into religious hate crimes in the United States. The more you know the better. An optional thing for you to do is to look into the statistics of such things, perhaps going back 2015 to now.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/26/half-of-all-church-fires-in-past-20-years-were-arsons/

Okay. Good to call a truce on that, I guess. I’ll try to hold back as well.
You must understand that this is a site that purports to be a gathering spot for JWs, therefore I do have a sense (possibly unwise) of “defending my turf.”
I would not behave that way were I on a site that does not purport to be a gathering spot for JWs.

In fact, John, you are being fed a pack of lies, and I cannot believe that you are gullible enough to fall for it.
During my years at Bethel, two GB members came down with pneumonia. Nobody could figure out why, because they had perfectly good space heaters for their pup tents. It turned out that, even though the temperature had been in the teens for days, they had kept them off so as not to waste dedicated funds.
Three of them got hand fungus from the hours they spent every day on foot-washing detail.
Two of them subsisted on honey and locusts. Four pressed their clothes with bricks so as not to waste electricity on ironing.
One of them winced when I said ‘hello’ and I learned afterwards that he only says “greetings” because “hello” has “hell” in it.
He winced even more and permanently injured his back carrying my bags to my room when I arrived, even though I told him I had brought my anvil collection.
One of them, when I had a flat tire, gave me a wheel off his car, and then had to walk through the sleet to the airport, where he strapped himself to a wing of the plane to save money and flew to Portugal to serve as keynote speaker there.
I visited Brother Morris in his tent, and he offered me a cup of coffee. As I sipped mine he diluted his to make it last longer.
These brothers make more self-sacrifice in a day than you do in a year.