JOHN BUTLER

The plain and simple answer about your GB is : By their works you will know them. 
And i judge the GB by their works of dishonesty and lies. Their lack of love for victims. Their putting themselves in the place of Jesus Christ. The way that they have silenced the Anointed. Misused scriptures. Lorded it over the congregation.  And given themselves the title of F&DS there by exalting themselves, and we know what the result of that will be. 
We have to judge them, otherwise we would just serve blindly.
Jesus himself judged the Pharisees. The disciples judged Jesus and found him to be the true one to follow. 
You yourself seem to judge the GB as being God's true servants. That is your judgement and your choice. 
In my opinion you allow sin to be overlooked in the GB because you look at it from mans viewpoint. 
But what about God's viewpoint ? How long will He continue putting up with it ? 
You have judged elders also as you said some of them should not be elders. So if it is God's Organisation and if those elders were appointed with God's holy spirit, why do you say they should not be elders ?
Isn't that going against God's holy spirit ? 
 
 

The plain and simple answer about your GB is : By their works you will know them. 
And i judge the GB by their works of dishonesty and lies. Their lack of love for victims. Their putting themselves in the place of Jesus Christ. The way that they have silenced the Anointed. Misused scriptures. Lorded it over the congregation.  And given themselves the title of F&DS there by exalting themselves, and we know what the result of that will be. 
We have to judge them, otherwise we would just serve blindly.
Jesus himself judged the Pharisees. The disciples judged Jesus and found him to be the true one to follow. 
You yourself seem to judge the GB as being God's true servants. That is your judgement and your choice. 
In my opinion you allow sin to be overlooked in the GB because you look at it from mans viewpoint. 
But what about God's viewpoint ? How long will He continue putting up with it ? 
You have judged elders also as you said some of them should not be elders. So if it is God's Organisation and if those elders were appointed with God's holy spirit, why do you say they should not be elders ?
Isn't that going against God's holy spirit ? 
 
 

If we were all inspired of God and all had the same communication with God via Jesus Christ then why would we need a 'faithful and discreet slave' to 'feed us the right food at the proper time' ?  We could all get fed directly from God via Christ. 
However the GB claim to be the only ones capable of feeding us in the proper way, as they say that they (those 8 men) are the only 'Faithful and discreet slave'. 
Quote : "However, we would would need to agree that the "chosen ones" would need to be living up to that choice".
Do you mean that they would need to be deserving of such true communication ? 

The Kid makes me think of an example.
A man is arrested for murder. The murder is proved beyond doubt. But, the man says,' IS have murdered many more people than I have'.
Then the man says ' Hitler was responsible for millions of murders'. 
'So on that account', the man says, 'I must be innocent, because no one is perfect, and I have done less harm than most' 'So I should be set free' the man says. 
This seems to be the Kid's way of thinking, and the way of many others too. 
I've said so many times before, did the priests of the Nation of Israel say' But we didn't offer as many children in the fire to Molech as the other nations did'. 
Unfortunately most of you are looking at the problem from 'mans' viewpoint. You are making excuses just as any sinner would. 
You are not looking at the whole situation from God's way of thinking.
God needs to have a CLEAN HONEST SINCERE LOVING ORGANISATION. 
JW ORG is NOT the Org it needs to be. It cannot serve God properly the way it is. 
Perhaps that's why Armageddon has been delayed, maybe no one is worth saving right now.
Remember that the Nation of Israel was supposed to enter the Promised Land much sooner than they did. 
They were not worthy so had to spend forty years in the wilderness.
I wonder how long God will keep people in the 'wilderness' this time. Until He is satisfied that some are serving Him properly that's for sure. 
This 'mini revolution' within the JW Org could be the turning point. It could wake up the sleeping Anointed ones. Then God could get on with His work.
Yes I know God could do it all on His own if He wanted to, but He wants people to serve Him willingly and honestly.  
 

WT is 140 years in wilderness now. All that period they "rowing", from 1879 - 2019, as G.L. proclaimed on JWTV
IF WTBTS  IS God's chosen nation, they have not much hope and chance to survive. Think a little about history lessons and experience of Old Israel Nation. Their Nation and later Kingdom was always in some problems. Civil Wars inside and Wars on boarders. Always turbulent problems about worshiping, idolatry, morality.  Alliances with other nations and subordination to other superpowers. Exiles and re turnings. Losing Kingdom and Land. Repeatedly rejected by God. 
What WTBTS inc. have that is above this all? Above the historical and spiritual legacy that this organization claim of self to have as heritage all way along in past to/from Jesus and Abraham?    

The Kid makes me think of an example.
A man is arrested for murder. The murder is proved beyond doubt. But, the man says,' IS have murdered many more people than I have'.
Then the man says ' Hitler was responsible for millions of murders'. 
'So on that account', the man says, 'I must be innocent, because no one is perfect, and I have done less harm than most' 'So I should be set free' the man says. 
This seems to be the Kid's way of thinking, and the way of many others too. 
I've said so many times before, did the priests of the Nation of Israel say' But we didn't offer as many children in the fire to Molech as the other nations did'. 
Unfortunately most of you are looking at the problem from 'mans' viewpoint. You are making excuses just as any sinner would. 
You are not looking at the whole situation from God's way of thinking.
God needs to have a CLEAN HONEST SINCERE LOVING ORGANISATION. 
JW ORG is NOT the Org it needs to be. It cannot serve God properly the way it is. 
Perhaps that's why Armageddon has been delayed, maybe no one is worth saving right now.
Remember that the Nation of Israel was supposed to enter the Promised Land much sooner than they did. 
They were not worthy so had to spend forty years in the wilderness.
I wonder how long God will keep people in the 'wilderness' this time. Until He is satisfied that some are serving Him properly that's for sure. 
This 'mini revolution' within the JW Org could be the turning point. It could wake up the sleeping Anointed ones. Then God could get on with His work.
Yes I know God could do it all on His own if He wanted to, but He wants people to serve Him willingly and honestly.  
 

I had that same idea ... but it is easier to explain when you use the "Hitler Card" as an illustration.
I agree with EVERY WORD you said ... but still .... because we are all ... you, me, and everyone, capable of great things and magnificent endeavors of integrity and courage and righteousness ... we are stuck in big ugly bags of mostly water, with brains made mostly of fat.
..and the people that try the most ... get tired and exhausted faster.
When you go to a buffet restaurant ... always check the plates, and knives , forks, and spoons for being having been washed.
... and every once and awhile,... in the kitchen.
"STUFF HAPPENS".
... and remember, wherever you go ... there you are!
Wah-d-do DAH!
(Translation of the above:  Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater  every time SOMETHING gets clean ... something ELSE gets dirty ...).
You cannot expect  a bar of aluminum to have the same strength of a bar of steel.
But steel corrodes ... and so do we.
 
 
 
 

The Kid makes me think of an example.
A man is arrested for murder. The murder is proved beyond doubt. But, the man says,' IS have murdered many more people than I have'.
Then the man says ' Hitler was responsible for millions of murders'. 
'So on that account', the man says, 'I must be innocent, because no one is perfect, and I have done less harm than most' 'So I should be set free' the man says. 
This seems to be the Kid's way of thinking, and the way of many others too. 
I've said so many times before, did the priests of the Nation of Israel say' But we didn't offer as many children in the fire to Molech as the other nations did'. 
Unfortunately most of you are looking at the problem from 'mans' viewpoint. You are making excuses just as any sinner would. 
You are not looking at the whole situation from God's way of thinking.
God needs to have a CLEAN HONEST SINCERE LOVING ORGANISATION. 
JW ORG is NOT the Org it needs to be. It cannot serve God properly the way it is. 
Perhaps that's why Armageddon has been delayed, maybe no one is worth saving right now.
Remember that the Nation of Israel was supposed to enter the Promised Land much sooner than they did. 
They were not worthy so had to spend forty years in the wilderness.
I wonder how long God will keep people in the 'wilderness' this time. Until He is satisfied that some are serving Him properly that's for sure. 
This 'mini revolution' within the JW Org could be the turning point. It could wake up the sleeping Anointed ones. Then God could get on with His work.
Yes I know God could do it all on His own if He wanted to, but He wants people to serve Him willingly and honestly.  
 

Oh dear Billy is throwing his toys out of his prama gain. 
I have no interest in what worldly governments led by Satan are doing.  The JW Org is supposed to be NO PART OF THE WORLD.... 
My interest is in ordinary people. Mainly working class and lower class people. People that have not got money or power nor a good education, and basically have to do as they are told by secular laws, police, big business bosses, et al. 
Jesus was interested in those people that were down trodden and poor. Those people that were 'walked over' by the religious leaders of the Nation of Israel. 
I see you've given me another title. It must make you feel so grand being able to dish out titles to people. 'Oh yes we'll just put another label on him'... So funny Kid. 
But with all all the worldly info' you spout, it does not detract from the truth about JW Org. JW Org is rigged and it's faulty according to James. I would call it a lot worse, but being polite I'll just say it is, hypocritical and disgusting, and full of lies and false teachings, and run by men that think they are important. 
 
 
 

To the uninformed perhaps. A little thought should suffice:
1. Institutions based in England and Wales including the Armed Forces, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the British Council and private companies and charitable organisations recruit people to work abroad. If persons unsuitable to woirk with children are recruited and employed to work abroad, then 'children outside the UK' are being put at risk. High profile cases have littered the press of late.
2. How effective in its nature and application is the current legal framework for the monitoring of overseas travel of individuals known to the UK authorities as posing a risk to children?
3. What is the extent of institutional failings of organisations based in England and Wales relating to the sexual abuse of children involved in child migration programmes? 
For starters.

I have always wondered if the Bible is for 'all of us' to understand fully, or if it's only for a chosen few to fully understand.
I don't mean is it just for one 'religion' to understand, I mean is it just for say 'an anointed group of people to understand'? 
Jesus spoke in illustrations to the people, but the disciples asked Jesus what the illustrations meant. Then Jesus would explain the illustration to them fully. 
Jesus told his disciples that 'to them the sacred secrets would be revealed' but that the crowd would not get the meaning of such things. 
It was also that after Jesus was resurrected he opened the eyes of his disciples / apostles so that they began to fully understand all things.
For my part I would never expect to fully understand God's word the Bible. A lot of it is straight forward of course, and easy to comprehend.
But I think a lot of it is 'in deep code' so to speak, only fully understood by those that Jehovah chooses.. 
It still seems strange to me, but it would be a separate topic, that God allows it to be so difficult for people to find any truth amongst the huge amount of lies in 'religion'. 
However, in my opinion, there has to be a 'group of humans' 'anointed people' that do have some direct contact with God, through Jesus Christ. 
We no longer have 'miracles' being done in Christ's name, so it is difficult to know exactly who the 'chosen ones' are. 
If there was a 'body of people' that could prove that they had God's approval and God's holy spirit, that would make life much easier. 
However when those that say they are chosen either make mistakes or tell lies about the meaning of scripture, and then their predictions fail, then they seem to prove themselves false or without God's guidance.
So we go back to square one. Is there really a 'body of people' being truly guided and upbuilt by God's holy spirit at this time ? 
Is the Bible and it's prophecies being fully opened up to such ones ?
 

Lost his faith completely. Shame!

God made Adam.  He made Eve from Adam's rib.  
Must be a miracle. 

Where did Adam get his?

That's why he's called God's son God completed the rest of the DNA for him

... and common sense, too.
( Which is becoming less and less common ...)
Agenda driven thinking ALWAYS does that.
ALWAYS.

and Jehovah really does have a Congregational Arrangement, and Jehovah's Witnesses , globally, "ARE THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN!" 
Oh dear are you suffering from shell shock or something.
If an Organisation needs to be run on lies and deceit by a group of 8 Americans (basically), then in my opinion it is not God's Organisation.  
And if they need to replace the Anointed by using Elders who are not spirit anointed then how is that right ?
And I will stick to my personal idea that, as the scriptures were written with the guidance of Holy Spirit, and as the Bible was 'put together' by means of Holy Spirit, then it can only be fully understood by God supplying His Holy spirit through Jesus Christ. So if the GB are not inspired of God's Holy spirit it gives very good reason that they cannot understand the scriptures and therefore get many things wrong. 
JW's follow 8 men and it's writing department and it's legal department.
The Elders serve as puppets to the GB and act as policemen to the congregation with the intention of making the JW Org look clean. Unfortunately the 'bowl' is only washed on the outside, so inside it's still filthy. 
And this is your 'Only Game In town' ? 
Then may God have mercy on the human race. 

Well it's been a year since the rumour first started, but the IICSA are very busy as you know :- 
https://www.theweek.co.uk/92180/jehovah-s-witnesses-face-possible-child-sex-abuse-inquiry
 

and Jehovah really does have a Congregational Arrangement, and Jehovah's Witnesses , globally, "ARE THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN!" 
Oh dear are you suffering from shell shock or something.
If an Organisation needs to be run on lies and deceit by a group of 8 Americans (basically), then in my opinion it is not God's Organisation.  
And if they need to replace the Anointed by using Elders who are not spirit anointed then how is that right ?
And I will stick to my personal idea that, as the scriptures were written with the guidance of Holy Spirit, and as the Bible was 'put together' by means of Holy Spirit, then it can only be fully understood by God supplying His Holy spirit through Jesus Christ. So if the GB are not inspired of God's Holy spirit it gives very good reason that they cannot understand the scriptures and therefore get many things wrong. 
JW's follow 8 men and it's writing department and it's legal department.
The Elders serve as puppets to the GB and act as policemen to the congregation with the intention of making the JW Org look clean. Unfortunately the 'bowl' is only washed on the outside, so inside it's still filthy. 
And this is your 'Only Game In town' ? 
Then may God have mercy on the human race. 

No i am not that one who suggesting this. :)) WT publications openly using some Bible verses about that how JW member must listening Bible and God more than Secular Government. In other words, with life examples in publications, they (GB) supporting disobedience to Human Laws made by Secular Authority.  
In next step of this doctrine is idea, how WTJWorg organization is only organization that is guided by God and how members have to listen GB aka FDS who are God's channel of communication, Represents, Mediators  between God (Jesus) and His servants aka JW members here on Earth.
In next step, GB clearly say how they alone are only group who are appointed from God to run this Organization and make explanation about Bible and doctrines and instructions about that how worshiping in daily life should be look like.
Who push whose and what Ideology on people? Systematically and Organizationally.  

All you said is true .. BUT ... all men are fallible, and even hardened combat soldiers  whose determination is to be steadfast, loyal, courageous, faithful and discreet  reach the limits of what they are ABLE to do ... and crumble and fall.
... been there ... done that.
Seen it many times in many places.
Not every conscientious soldier can be like the fictional John Rambo, and it is unrealistic to assume anything close to that.
That is why, while acknowledging all that has been talked about here in the last ten years, and more, is mostly true ... Justice requires OUR mercy and understanding when our "Drill Sergeants", and "Officer's Corps" get us and our friends killed because they were not as good at what they claimed to want to be.
Nobody is.  
Not You, Not me, not anybody.
My Uncle Bill was shot from behind in North Korea in the 1950's by his own men, and three 50 caliber machine gun bullets almost tore his left arm off, which was one massive scar.
Making weak, wimpy decisions based on fear of an endless list of things ... IS WHAT WE DO!
That is why I stick with Jehovah's Witnesses ... not because of the phony crap and self serving self aggrandizement of the leadership, that looks like a clown car that has run off the road and into a tree ... It's because the core Theology is TRUE ... and Jehovah really does have a Congregational Arrangement, and Jehovah's Witnesses , globally, "ARE THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN!"
FROM THE BOTTOM UP,  we have to show THEM mercy and understanding, even when they royally screw up.. (John 9:41).
Remember, Jehovah "tolerated" a whole dedicated nation of Jews, his "special possession", to get completely over run with pagan practices and dishonesty, before it finally reached a certain point, that "enough was enough!."
Justice must be tempered with mercy for blind guides who do not fight well when the enemy is engaged.
Everyone does what we know ... and nobody is good at everything.
A clumsy dentist is often better than no dentist., but ....
STUFF HAPPENS
(paraphrased)
 
 
 

the Watchtower hides things. When that is proven false 
Has it been proven false ?   
Then why did the GB / Legal dept refuse to hand over all of the twenty years worth of Child Abuse accusations in the USA ?
They didn't say those documents didn't exist, they just refused to hand them over. 
Now, whether they needed legally to hand those documents over or not, the point was proven that those documents existed. So that is hidden information. 
And didn't the Charity commision find things out on their investigation hee in the UK ? And didn't the UK branch/ hq/ bethel try to stop the Charity Commision from doing it's investigation ? So wasn't the UK bethel/hq trying to hide things ? 
And isn't the IICSA going to do an investigation into the UK branch of JW's ?  Why would they bother if they didn't think there were things being hidden ? 
And in other countries groups such as Reclaimed Voices are pushing for more investigations.
I think there is a lot more muck going to be dug out of the JW Org over this year. 
Too bad that you cannot see that the GB are not the 'faithful and discreet slave' that they pretend to be. 
They not only hide things from the public, they also hide things from the congregants. 
11.35pm. Good night from the pleasant countryside of Devon England  

the Watchtower hides things. When that is proven false 
Has it been proven false ?   
Then why did the GB / Legal dept refuse to hand over all of the twenty years worth of Child Abuse accusations in the USA ?
They didn't say those documents didn't exist, they just refused to hand them over. 
Now, whether they needed legally to hand those documents over or not, the point was proven that those documents existed. So that is hidden information. 
And didn't the Charity commision find things out on their investigation hee in the UK ? And didn't the UK branch/ hq/ bethel try to stop the Charity Commision from doing it's investigation ? So wasn't the UK bethel/hq trying to hide things ? 
And isn't the IICSA going to do an investigation into the UK branch of JW's ?  Why would they bother if they didn't think there were things being hidden ? 
And in other countries groups such as Reclaimed Voices are pushing for more investigations.
I think there is a lot more muck going to be dug out of the JW Org over this year. 
Too bad that you cannot see that the GB are not the 'faithful and discreet slave' that they pretend to be. 
They not only hide things from the public, they also hide things from the congregants. 
11.35pm. Good night from the pleasant countryside of Devon England  

the Watchtower hides things. When that is proven false 
Has it been proven false ?   
Then why did the GB / Legal dept refuse to hand over all of the twenty years worth of Child Abuse accusations in the USA ?
They didn't say those documents didn't exist, they just refused to hand them over. 
Now, whether they needed legally to hand those documents over or not, the point was proven that those documents existed. So that is hidden information. 
And didn't the Charity commision find things out on their investigation hee in the UK ? And didn't the UK branch/ hq/ bethel try to stop the Charity Commision from doing it's investigation ? So wasn't the UK bethel/hq trying to hide things ? 
And isn't the IICSA going to do an investigation into the UK branch of JW's ?  Why would they bother if they didn't think there were things being hidden ? 
And in other countries groups such as Reclaimed Voices are pushing for more investigations.
I think there is a lot more muck going to be dug out of the JW Org over this year. 
Too bad that you cannot see that the GB are not the 'faithful and discreet slave' that they pretend to be. 
They not only hide things from the public, they also hide things from the congregants. 
11.35pm. Good night from the pleasant countryside of Devon England  

Now there's the rub