JOHN BUTLER

That is a pointless accusation as usual from you.
And as W/t material has been in production for far longer than i've been on this forum, you are obviously wrong.
But for person that hides behind a pussy, I don't expect anything better  
 

Just pointing out the facts that the GB / Writing dept' seem to need to write about it all.
I would think a true Christian has enough advice and direction in God's word. 
But the GB obviously needs to think up something to write about to put up a smoke screen for them to hide behind. 

It seems the GB or some JW's just love to think about and talk about SEX 
We've had masterbation talked about here. 
We've had oral sex talked about here.
We've had tight 'pants' / trousers showing off 'body parts', talked about here. 
Now lap dancing. 
It is slightly funny but also a bit worrying. Are the GB or some JW's, perverts, that they cannot stop thinking about or talking about SEX.
Seems to remind me of an Otis Redding song, something about 'You don't miss your water , till your well is dry'.
Someone here missing more than their water ?   

Sorry i find some of this funny, but of course it isn't funny from God's viewpoint.
Any true Christian, well in my opinion, would not even enter such a place of 'entertainment'. 
But then I don't even drink alcohol and never go into pubs / bars, as i see no need for any on it.  
 

Is this for real ?  8 old men in America making up rules for what married couples can do in their bedroom. 
If that is true then the GB are Perverted old farts.  

2014 was a long time ago regarding the Child Abuse issues. It has become mainstream news now so the Gb and it's Org lost that battle to keep it all secret. Hence a lot more people over 16 or 18 would have left the Org by now. And been replaced by 3 and 5 years olds it seems. 
Until last year I never really thought about how they count the amount of JW's in the Org. I just thought they kept numbers of all those that are baptised. However I read online somewhere that a 'prominent' JW said that the number of JW's is counted by the number of monthly reports going in. He said it was more important to count 'active' members than baptised members. Can't remember who said it as it wasn't important to me at the time. But now seeing all this about 3 and 5 years olds it does make me think how desperate the GB and the Org are. 
By the way, Srecko is right you completely miss the meaning of the scripture you used. The scripture is talking about adults lowering their pride and becoming like children. 
Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the Kingdom of God like a young child will by no means enter into it.” 
Jesus was usingthe young children as showing humility. But i don't expect you to understand that. 
@Outta Here  said "Rubbish! You're outside the camp, under reprimand.....accept it!"  
Wow see the humility there  NO................... Who is Srecko supposed to be 'under reprimand' by ? 
You see Outta Here, all that shows is you worship of the GB and it's JW Org. I see no signs that Srecko is not still a worshipper of God, therefore God, through Jesus Christ is judge, not you Outta Here.
Quote @Outta Here  "Oh come on please. How does this observation of the obvious show any kind of insight? They are just like you surely? Start off for whatever reasons, then fizzle out for whatever reasons. Just as the apostle John stated centuries ago."
Well no actually. Children born into JW families are forced to go to meetings and to 'pre-study' etc. It is difficult for parents and for the children. Meetings have gradually got shorter so it gets a bit easier of course. But assemblies are chaos, for parents and children alike. Please remember I had years in the JW Org, so I talk from some experience. Experience of seeing other parents struggling with children and having done so myself, with two families.... And having seen many teenagers leave the Org as soon as they were able.  
 
 

@TrueTomHarley  You know you may even be a good author, it's the way you twist things and use sarcasm to try to hide the truth.
Are you calling Queen Esther a liar ? And Jack also ?   Isn't the proof being put in front of your own eyes ? 
But, there is none so blind as those that do not want to see.  Keep selling your books Tom it's all you are really interested in anyway. 
But I think you've shot yourself in the foot by admitting this :-
Quote : Come, come, John. Around ten is the age that ones may present themselves for baptism, and mid-teens is more typical. Participation in the ministry can start earlier.
Witness HQ counts it by the number who are doing what the name says. How many are ‘witnessing’ for Jehovah? That will be revealed in how many report field service.
You have therefore confirmed what i said. Under 10 year olds can have a Field Service Report put in by their parents and it will be counted. And they start at 3 years old Tom. 
It's not about 'pumping up the numbers' Tom, it's about trying to hide how many are leaving the JW Org. 
Replacing the number of adults in the Org with children, by counting the children as proper JW's, and people outside will not know the difference. It's about 'show' Tom, and you know it. 
It's all a front. Pretending the JW Org is clean and pretending the JW Org has a healthy number of members. 
But it only works to fool those in the world that do not understand how bad the JW Org really is. 

God and Jesus Christ definitely don't, that's for sure . 
It's run by 8 men who are mainly american and mainly white. 
That tells a lot about an org. 

And i thought the Org had a clever legal system. They must have known they were breaking the Law. 
Trying to make dishonesty pay once again. They don't seem to learn much do they  

To the rest of you that feel the need to rally round and stick up for the ones you worship. The GB and it Org.
You are completely missing the point of this Watchtower. It is aimed at the Elders.
It is not so that congregants can know what to do. IT IS TO TELL THE ELDERS TO BACK OFF. TO TELL THE ELDERS. NOT TO TELL THE CONGREGANTS TO KEEP QUIET. 
BECAUSE IT SEEMS THE ELDERS WERE TELLING THE CONGREGANTS NOT TO REPORT THINGS TO THE POLICE OR THE AUTHORITIES. 
UNLESS AS I'VE SAID BEFORE, YOU ARE CALLING ALL THE VICTIMS LIARS. 
And for the Kid, yes Kid experience is better than second hand information, but Kid i have both. 

@TrueTomHarley    Quote "I had you in mind when I wrote the above, John, and I honestly feel sorry for you."
Nice of you to think about me Tom. Thank you. But feeling sorry for someone is such a negative attitude, and in your case i feel the sorrow is not genuine. Why ? 
Quote "Though apparently wrapped in a newfound ‘personal relationship with Jesus,’ "  That is sarcasm Tom and shows your lack of 'feeling sorry for me'  I do not have a 'personal relationship with Jesus', nor do i pretend to have.  Can you quote me as saying that i have ? 
I have always thought that individuals should pray to God through Jesus Christ. And surely all Christians should pray in such a way on a daily basis ? I went into our back garden early this morning and put food out for the birds, and when birds arrived i thanked God for the happiness those birds bring to humans. Just watching those birds in the garden, such a simple thing, but it gives me such pleasure. Now God must have built that into humans to like or love animals / birds / creatures. So in that way you could say we all have a 'personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ', or would you not agree ? 
If you don't agree that people can have such a relationship with God and Christ then it seems as if you are saying that a person can only give praise twice a week, that being at JW meetings............. Now that creates a Clergy Class doesn't it ? 
But oh yes that reminds me Clergy Class, Clergy privilege. 
The clergy–penitent privilege, clergy privilege, confessional privilege, priest–penitent privilege, clergyman–communicant privilege, or ecclesiastical privilegeis a rule of evidence that forbids judicial inquiry into certain communications (spoken or otherwise) between clergy and members of their congregation.
I do believe that Elders are using this 'excuse' to refuse to give evidence in court cases. Am I right in this thinking ? 
But of course the JW Org does not have a 'Clergy Class' does it ? Contradiction i think. 
Quote " applying Christianity. "  That phrase means different things to different people Tom.  If all those Pedophiles in the JW Org had applied Christianity then all the aforementioned on this topic would not exist. 
 

To the rest of you that feel the need to rally round and stick up for the ones you worship. The GB and it Org.
You are completely missing the point of this Watchtower. It is aimed at the Elders.
It is not so that congregants can know what to do. IT IS TO TELL THE ELDERS TO BACK OFF. TO TELL THE ELDERS. NOT TO TELL THE CONGREGANTS TO KEEP QUIET. 
BECAUSE IT SEEMS THE ELDERS WERE TELLING THE CONGREGANTS NOT TO REPORT THINGS TO THE POLICE OR THE AUTHORITIES. 
UNLESS AS I'VE SAID BEFORE, YOU ARE CALLING ALL THE VICTIMS LIARS. 
And for the Kid, yes Kid experience is better than second hand information, but Kid i have both. 

@TrueTomHarley    Quote "I had you in mind when I wrote the above, John, and I honestly feel sorry for you."
Nice of you to think about me Tom. Thank you. But feeling sorry for someone is such a negative attitude, and in your case i feel the sorrow is not genuine. Why ? 
Quote "Though apparently wrapped in a newfound ‘personal relationship with Jesus,’ "  That is sarcasm Tom and shows your lack of 'feeling sorry for me'  I do not have a 'personal relationship with Jesus', nor do i pretend to have.  Can you quote me as saying that i have ? 
I have always thought that individuals should pray to God through Jesus Christ. And surely all Christians should pray in such a way on a daily basis ? I went into our back garden early this morning and put food out for the birds, and when birds arrived i thanked God for the happiness those birds bring to humans. Just watching those birds in the garden, such a simple thing, but it gives me such pleasure. Now God must have built that into humans to like or love animals / birds / creatures. So in that way you could say we all have a 'personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ', or would you not agree ? 
If you don't agree that people can have such a relationship with God and Christ then it seems as if you are saying that a person can only give praise twice a week, that being at JW meetings............. Now that creates a Clergy Class doesn't it ? 
But oh yes that reminds me Clergy Class, Clergy privilege. 
The clergy–penitent privilege, clergy privilege, confessional privilege, priest–penitent privilege, clergyman–communicant privilege, or ecclesiastical privilegeis a rule of evidence that forbids judicial inquiry into certain communications (spoken or otherwise) between clergy and members of their congregation.
I do believe that Elders are using this 'excuse' to refuse to give evidence in court cases. Am I right in this thinking ? 
But of course the JW Org does not have a 'Clergy Class' does it ? Contradiction i think. 
Quote " applying Christianity. "  That phrase means different things to different people Tom.  If all those Pedophiles in the JW Org had applied Christianity then all the aforementioned on this topic would not exist. 
 

The "Keep yourselves in God's Love" book page 223. This is from the 2008 edition.  This book was studied in the form of a question and answer at the book study, and is a book that is studied with those wishing to get baptized. Unfortunately, as you say, some chose not to go to the authorities because of worry of reproach, and host of other worries (https://1in6.org/get-information/common-questions/why-do-adults-fail-to-protect-children-from-sexual-abuse-or-exploitation/) Even as late as 2014, one of the elders testifying at the ARC expressed similar sentiments to one of the two adult survivors who wanted to testify, by asking her: "why would you want to drag the organization through the mud?".  To keep child sexual abuse from the authorities however has never been JW policy. But Tom, you can't reason with the unreasonable.
Thankfully, as we know, the ARC turned out to play a key part in what we all see as a welcomed improvement. Not so much in our policies, but in their clear transparent presentation to ALL Jehovah's Witnesses (and anybody else who is interested).

In Jehovah’s Witness congregations, victims, parents, or anyone else, have always been free to report allegations of child sexual abuse to the police. The troubling reality is that many chose not to do it. They alerted congregation elders and went no further. Why? Because they thought that by so doing, they might be bringing reproach on God’s name and the Christian congregation.
That situation has been resolved. The May 2019 study edition of the Watchtower, reviewed via Q & A participation at all congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses—it will escape nobody—addressed it specifically: 
“But what if the report is about someone who is a part of the congregation and the matter then becomes known in the community? Should the Christian who reported it feel that he has brought reproach on God’s name? No. The abuser is the one who brings reproach on God’s name,” states the magazine.
The problem is solved. Can one bring reproach on God or the Christian congregation by reporting child sexual abuse to police? No. The abuser has already brought the reproach. There will be many who had long ago come to that conclusion, but now, unambiguously, in writing, for elders and members alike, here it is spelled out.
From the beginning, child sexual abuse controversies as related to Jehovah’s Witnesses have been markedly different from those of nearly anywhere else. Incidents have mostly been within the ranks of the general membership, come to light because the Witness organization takes seriously passages as Romans 2:21-22, and investigates wrongdoing within its midst so as to “keep the congregation clean” in God’s eyes, something that they think He demands:
“Do you, however, the one teaching someone else, not teach yourself? You, the one preaching “Do not steal,” do you steal?  You, the one saying “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery?” (Romans 2:21-22)
Elsewhere it is the leaders being looked at exclusively. Usually, no mechanism at all exists that the wrongdoing of religious members comes to light. When the police nab John Q. Parishioner, it is as much news to the church minister as it is to the public. When was the last time you read of an abuser identified by religious affiliation unless it was a person in position of leadership?
As I write this, it now appears that the time has come for Southern Baptists to take their turn in the hot seat. Just eight days prior to this writing, a Houston Chronicle headline (February 10, 2019) announces: “Abuse of Faith - 20 years, 700 victims: Southern Baptist sexual abuse spreads as leaders resist reforms.”
Who are the victims? Entirely those who were abused by leaders. The latter “were pastors. ministers. youth pastors. Sunday school teachers. deacons. And church volunteers.” Were any of them just regular church members abused by other regular church members? No. There is no apparatus for that to ever come to light. The church preaches to them on Sunday but otherwise takes no interest in whether they actually apply the faith or not. Doubtless they hope for the best, but it is no more than hope. Only a handful of faiths make any effort to ensure that members live up to what they profess.
It has always been apples vs oranges. That is what has long frustrated Jehovah’s Witnesses. With most groups, if you want to find a bumper crop of pedophile abusers, you need look no farther than the leaders. With Jehovah’s Witnesses, if you “hope” for the same catch, you must broaden your nets to include, not just leaders, but everybody. It is rare for a Witness leader to be an abuser, the rotter in San Diego being a notable exception. It is the rule elsewhere. The most recent Witness legal case, involving a lawsuit in Montana, involves abuse entirely within a member’s step-family that did not reach the ears of the police, which the court decided was through leadership culpability.
To account for this marked difference in leadership personal conduct, this writer submits a reason. Those who lead among Jehovah’s Witnesses are selected from rank and file members on the basis of moral qualifications highlighted in the Bible itself, for example, at Titus 1:6-9.  In short, they are those who have distinguished themselves in living their religion. Leaders of most denominations have distinguished themselves in knowing their religion, having graduated from divinity schools of higher education. They may live the religion—ideally, they do, but this is by no means assured—the emphasis is on academic knowledge.
Add to the mix that Jehovah’s Witness elders preside without pay, and thus their true motive is revealed. Most religious leaders do it for pay, and thus present conflicting motives. One could even call them “mercenary ministers.” Are they untainted in their desire to do the Lord’s work or not? One hopes for the best but can never be sure.
Confounding irreligious humanists who would frame the child sexual abuse issue as one of religious institutions, two days after the Southern Baptist exposé, there appeared one of the United Nations. On February 12, the Sun (thesun.co.uk) reported that “thousands more ‘predatory’ sex abusers specifically target aid charity jobs to get close to vulnerable women and children.”
“There are tens of thousands of aid workers around the world with paedophile tendencies, but if you wear a UNICEF T-shirt nobody will ask what you’re up to. You have the impunity to do whatever you want,” Andrew Macleod, a former UN high official stated, adding that “there has been an ‘endemic’ cover-up of the sickening crimes for two decades, with those who attempt to blow the whistle just getting fired.” Sharing his data with The Sun, Mr. Macleod “warned that the spiralling abuse scandal was on the same scale as the Catholic Church’s.”
All things must be put into perspective. Child sexual abuse is not an issue of any single religion, much less a tiny one where otherwise blameless leaders are perceived to have bungled reporting to police. It occurs in any setting in which people interact with one another. The legal system being what it is, one can prosecute child sexual abuse wherever it is encountered. The tort system being what it is, one prosecutes primarily where there are deep pockets. Arguably, the child sexual abuse issues of the Southern Baptists have taken so long coming to light is because that denomination is decentralized in organization, presenting no deep pockets.
With the May 2019 Watchtower mentioned above, finally the reporting issues of Jehovah’s Witnesses are fixed. Anyone who knows of abuse allegations may bring those to the attention of the police, and regardless of how “insular” or “no part of the world” Witnesses may be, they need not have the slightest misgivings about bringing reproach on the congregation. Both goals can proceed—that of societal justice and that of congregation justice—and neither interferes with the other.
Witness opposers were not at all gracious about this change, that I could see. Many continued to harp on the “two witness” rule of verifying abuse, for example. It becomes entirely irrelevant now. Were it a “40-witness” or a “half-witness” rule, it wouldn’t matter. It is a standard that guides congregation judicial proceedings and has absolutely no bearing on secular justice.
“Well, it only took a landslide of legal threats around the world to force their hand on this,” opposers grumbled, as they went on to claim credit. Why not give them the credit? Likely it is true. Everything in life is action/reaction and it would be foolish to deny the substance of this. Once ones leave the faith, people within lose track of them. It is easy to say: “Out of sight, out of mind,” and opponents did not allow this to happen. They should seriously congratulate themselves. Many have publicly stated that their opposition is only so that Jehovah’s Witnesses will fix their “broken policies.” Now that they have been fixed, one wonders if their opposition will stop.
Members have been given the clearest possible direction that there should be no obstacle or objection to their reporting whatever allegations or realities they feel should be reported. Few journalists will hold out for elders marching them down to the police station at gunpoint to make sure that they do, even if their most determined opposers will settle for no less.  There are some experiences that seem to preclude one’s ever looking at life rationally again, and perhaps child sexual abuse is one of them. The only people not knowing that the situation is fixed are those who are convinced that Jehovah’s Witnesses are evil incarnate whose charter purpose is to abuse children, and they will not be convinced until there is a cop in every Witness home.
With a major “reform” making clear that there is absolutely no reproach in reporting vile things to the authorities, some of the most virulent of Witness critics lose something huge to them, and the question some of them must face is a little like that of Tom Brady—what on earth is he ever going to do with himself after he retires? A few face withering away like old Roger Chillingsworth of the Scarlet Letter, who, when Arthur Dimmesdale finally changed his policy, “knelt down beside him, with a blank, dull countenance, out of which life seemed to have departed. ‘Thou hast escaped me!’ he repeated more than once. ‘Thou has escaped me!’
This will not be the journalists, of course. Nor will it be the legal people. Nor will it even be Witness critics in the main. But for some of the latter, former members who are vested in tearing down what they once embraced, it will not be an easy transition. They almost have no choice but to find some far-fetched scenario involving “rogue elders” that could conceivably allow something bad to yet happen and harp on that till the cows come home. There are always going to be ‘What ifs.’ At some point one must have some confidence in the power of parents to be concerned for their children, and for community to handle occasional lapses, particularly since governmental solutions have hardly proven immune to abuse and miscarriages of justice themselves. It is not easy to get between a mama bear and her cub.
All told, it would appear that even if the leaders of Jehovah’s Witnesses practiced child sexual abuse themselves, their “contribution” would be the tiniest part of an overall endemic. But since they do not—since their alleged sins are failing to report on what some members have done, the efforts of their apostates to paint them as a prime source of the degradation is but vengeful. They deliberately construct a damning and inaccurate picture of the faith that others in lands less enamored with human rights act upon. 
 

Author of two free ebooks, one on opposition to the Witness work in Russia, one on opposition in Western lands.
Tom I found this for you  :) 
https://taleflick.com/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=PaidSocial&utm_campaign=UKIR_&utm_content=AuthorsWriters&fbclid=IwAR25I9Rjcw2vBi_Dqr3Fq0PhNUChHoL5gOfTsNoq2OwBwEJnmg5JaH_3hu0

Poor old Tom. He makes statements that he cannot prove. He paints all ex-JW's with the same colour as he is too frightened to look at them as being individuals. He generalises so much that he makes himself look stupid. 
And for an author that wants to be taken seriously he really lets himself down with his over emotional rant. 
Anyone taking Tom seriously and anyone believing Tom's words needs to get back into the real world. 
It would be too easy to shoot Tom down on what he has written above, but for those that want to believe Tom it would not make any difference. It looks to be out of emotional guilt that he needed to write so much. Poor Tom. 
 

God and Jesus Christ definitely don't, that's for sure . 
It's run by 8 men who are mainly american and mainly white. 
That tells a lot about an org. 

God and Jesus Christ definitely don't, that's for sure . 
It's run by 8 men who are mainly american and mainly white. 
That tells a lot about an org. 

Very  rare  and  never  seen  in  Europe...   a  SO  young  sister  before  her  baptism !
But  I  saw  it  in  pic's  and  reports  -  its  really  true !!   I  will  soon  post  it  here...
Its  great  -  how  mature  the  kids  in  Asia  and  Africa...    wow ! 

2014 was a long time ago regarding the Child Abuse issues. It has become mainstream news now so the Gb and it's Org lost that battle to keep it all secret. Hence a lot more people over 16 or 18 would have left the Org by now. And been replaced by 3 and 5 years olds it seems. 
Until last year I never really thought about how they count the amount of JW's in the Org. I just thought they kept numbers of all those that are baptised. However I read online somewhere that a 'prominent' JW said that the number of JW's is counted by the number of monthly reports going in. He said it was more important to count 'active' members than baptised members. Can't remember who said it as it wasn't important to me at the time. But now seeing all this about 3 and 5 years olds it does make me think how desperate the GB and the Org are. 
By the way, Srecko is right you completely miss the meaning of the scripture you used. The scripture is talking about adults lowering their pride and becoming like children. 
Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the Kingdom of God like a young child will by no means enter into it.” 
Jesus was usingthe young children as showing humility. But i don't expect you to understand that. 
@Outta Here  said "Rubbish! You're outside the camp, under reprimand.....accept it!"  
Wow see the humility there  NO................... Who is Srecko supposed to be 'under reprimand' by ? 
You see Outta Here, all that shows is you worship of the GB and it's JW Org. I see no signs that Srecko is not still a worshipper of God, therefore God, through Jesus Christ is judge, not you Outta Here.
Quote @Outta Here  "Oh come on please. How does this observation of the obvious show any kind of insight? They are just like you surely? Start off for whatever reasons, then fizzle out for whatever reasons. Just as the apostle John stated centuries ago."
Well no actually. Children born into JW families are forced to go to meetings and to 'pre-study' etc. It is difficult for parents and for the children. Meetings have gradually got shorter so it gets a bit easier of course. But assemblies are chaos, for parents and children alike. Please remember I had years in the JW Org, so I talk from some experience. Experience of seeing other parents struggling with children and having done so myself, with two families.... And having seen many teenagers leave the Org as soon as they were able.  
 
 

Perhaps he is trying to follow Christ’s path, and expose the lies and hypocrisy.  ❤️ Matt 3:1-3;John 8:44; 2 Cor 10:4-6
We don’t walk away “happy” from the organization. If your emotional and spiritual heart is ripped in two, it takes time to recover.  Matt 24:9,21, Luke 12:53  It takes time to start all over again, learning how we were stumbled, through scripture untainted by men’s doctrine.  It takes time to build a true relationship with the Father and Christ outside of men’s orchestrated doctrinal demands.  Eventually, faith and peace is achieved by understanding the true Shepherd is watching over his sheep, protecting them until he returns.  Matt 5:1-12; John 10:1-5; Luke 15:4-7

to touch them.... well, text speaking about touching children for blessings, not baptizing children.
dear Outta Here, wrong interpretation and misapplication of bible text, for sure. 

So they count as JW's from age of 3 when they put in Report Slips,
and they can get baptised from age of 5. 
How desperate the GB / JW Org is getting, and how competitive it must be getting for parents. 

So equating coming to Jesus to be blessed with baptism is how you justify this practice?  Reread the scripture you quoted, it states NOTHING about baptizing. This is the classic example of where the wt has trained it's followers to use scripture out of context just as they do.