JOHN BUTLER

Yes I agree with you. But my point was that Jehovah's Witnesses were given that information to teach others when they were taking a Bible study. And that information was lies. So Jehovah's Witnesses were teaching lies to their students. 

In the very next line, I stated that it is a great exaggeration.
Yeah. I said that. 
 
Look, John, this is not hard. If it is my eye, it is a straw. If it is anyone else’s it is a rafter.
What part of that statement do you have trouble with?
 I got a ‘G’ on the talk. What more do you want?

And in your opinion that makes it Ok for the JW Org to teach lies does it ? 
Showing your true colours I think. Gives you more to write about probably  

Yes I agree with you. But my point was that Jehovah's Witnesses were given that information to teach others when they were taking a Bible study. And that information was lies. So Jehovah's Witnesses were teaching lies to their students. 

Well I personally don't want to judge anyone as to the resurrection. That would be a wicked thing to do. 
I do know that there are scriptures that say it will be bad for anyone that has stumbled others. So if a person is stumbled by another, is it their own fault or the fault of the other person. Is the other person blood guilty ?
I have no interest in judging others in that way, as to them being worthy of God's mercy. 
I have hope in God that He will, or through Christ He will, show mercy to those whom have been stumbled by a misleading Organisation.
I honestly feel that most of the Greek scriptures are addressed to those of the Anointed, as more is expected of them. So I don't feel that God will deal so harshly with those of the Earthly class. 
I don't think the Judgement day will be anything like it has been pictured on W/t magazines . It will be more spiritual than physical In my opinion. 
 

You are confusing JWs with those churches in which everyone gets up and gives his ‘testimony.’
Were it at a funeral home, I could do anything I wanted, without regard for being elder or MS. But it is not a free-for-all at the Kingdom Hall, so my giving the talk there was not a given. 
As it turned out, it was okayed, doubtless because people there know me well & I was a very close friend of the deceased.

Lol is that the best you can do? How am I racist because of a legitimate story that took place months ago?
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/07/05/man_rips_teens_make_america_great_again_hat_off_head_throws_soda_on_him.html
This still doesn't hide the fact of you speaking the way you did and assume people in that pot are all from the hood. And your hood talk is indeed stereotyping and near the line of racism and YOU were the one who made that comment.
Again, can you show me a legitimate comment of mine that shows any type of racism or pretending that contains racism? I can easily bring up you commenting on someone who is inferior because of their skin color.  Surely you can't "Hood Talk" your way out of this one.
The fact you didn't link my name shows you show harm to yourself, Johnny 5.
And I know that this point about this thread you have no answer for modesty vs immodesty when it comes to clothing. 

To quote  " A guy who uses a red hat that reads messages of racism to trigger aggressive response by people at a random bagel shop "
" But that's lowkey stereotyping and near the line of racism "
Another quote. " I've never used any sort of racism in any of my comments anywhere, "
You don't like mentioning racism, um looks different to me. 
 
 

Suicide in the ancient world did not carry the same negative connotations as it does today. Even bible text nowhere said how suicide is a sin or forbidden by Law. The biblical attitude toward suicide ranges from ambivalence to praise. Never made Judgmental statement against those who done that act of self-destruction. 
-Abimelech came to the tower, and fought against it, and came near to the entrance of the tower to burn it with fire. But a certain woman threw an upper millstone on Abimelech's head, and crushed his skull. Immediately he called to the young man who carried his armor and said to him, “Draw your sword and kill me, so people will not say about me, ‘A woman killed him.’ ” So the young man thrust him through, and he died.
-the counselor Ahithophel hanged himself                                                                                                                                                                                            When Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, he saddled his donkey and went off home to his own city. He set his house in order, and hanged himself; he died and was buried in the tomb of his father.
-Zimri, King of Israel, burned down his house around himself after military defeat.                                                                                                            When Zimri saw that the city was taken, he went into the citadel of the royal palace and set the palace on fire around him. So he died,
-Saul and his armor-bearer                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Then Saul said to his armor-bearer, “Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it, so that these uncircumcised may not come and make sport of me. But his armor-bearer was unwilling, for he was terrified. So Saul took his own sword and fell on it. When his armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he also fell on his sword and died. Thus Saul died; he and his three sons and all his house died together
-Samson                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Then Samson prayed to the Lord,“Sovereign Lord, remember me. Please, God, strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes.... Samson said, “Let me die with the Philistines!” Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived.
-even Judas suicide is an act of remorse, deep regret. According to JW elders instruction, he gave visible, strong signs of repentance :))      When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood
Some people here looks "funny" with conclusions about suicide and intention to defend WT Company. And all that in the name of God and Bible.
 

What are you talking about? I live in the borough, small quiet town. When we go to preach we go to another town and or city, the people at times who debate or confront are not even from the hood. What gave you the impression I live in the hood lol?
My background wasn't rough or tough, my uncle on the other hand lived in his country, he never was in the United States. My uncle was murdered when I was 8 and reasons for it it was because of jealous unknown persons that hated him. He was a very good man and had morals and didn't care what others thought of him and what I can say his head was more right than yours because he wasn't the type to drop to your level.
And nothing of that sort is my dream, remember what you said before and now look at you, Johnny. My only goal is to teach people about God and I haven't been in the "hood" as you claim, my other goal that is after keeping God's Kingdom first is to be there for friends and family. But that's lowkey stereotyping and near the line of racism. Not all of us Hispanic Americans are from the hood, as you claim. The Latino Community is everywhere, Johnny, even in our own countries. 
The irony you know nothing of the sort and act like you are, so don't pretend, Johnny 5 - you think I can't see that? But what you did here is messed up and it shows who you are and you are a liar because of what you said originally and here we are.
Laugh at me? Even if I did go there or people at school are from there, they don't pay me any mind like that and if they did, it's usually small talk, youd be surprised of people wanting to change their lives and some who have, those who are from the hood. If they have to laugh at someone it will be you, not only by glancing at you, your picture, but how you are trying to "hood talk" youd be on WS, and possibly a meme. They also have a name for people like you.
Gotta love how you attempt to speak like someone who's from there. May I suggest you get your starter's kit on Ebay or Amazon and give it a go? No? I thought so.
For a grown man like you, that's lowkey silly, coming from you.
Childish names? Buddy, Johnny 5 is a wonderful 90s movie. My cousins were 90s kids. Johnny 5 pretends to be human in the movie, and like you are doing here now, Johnny, you are pretending to be hood, when clearly you are not.
And still you can't answer what has been addressed to you and skip to nonsense. Surely you can be more serious than that.

Go back to pretending that you live in the 'hood' with all the coke dealers and gun runners. If that is your dream world so be it. 
If you came from a rough tough background you wouldn't keep using childish names. The bro in de hood would all laugh at you man. 
You ain't no big deal ya dig. 

some quotes from https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102009288   (my emphasis and enumeration)
If, then, the clergy-laity distinction is not based on the model set by Jesus’ apostles and other early Christians, does that make it wrong? According to the Bible, yes.
All you are brothers.”—Matthew 23:8.
1. God’s Word tells us that all Christians serve as God’s ministers and that none is above or beneath the other. (2 Corinthians 3:5, 6)
2. Spiritually older men did, of course, serve as overseers, which included being shepherds and teachers. (Acts 20:28) However, these men were not paid clerics.
3. For the most part, they were ordinary working men—husbands and fathers. Moreover, they qualified to serve as overseers, not by attending religious seminaries, but by being diligent students of God’s Word and by cultivating the spiritual qualities required by God. 
4. As for ministering within the congregation, Christian men in general are encouraged to reach out for that privilege, which is the custom among Jehovah’s Witnesses.—1 Timothy 3:1.
5. The clergy-laity distinction exalts the clergy class, an evidence being adulatory religious titles. Yet, Jesus said: “He that conducts himself as a lesser one among all of you is the one that is great.” (Luke 9:48) In harmony with that spirit of humility, he told his followers not to adopt religious titles.—Matthew 23:8-12.
 2.-1. A paid clergy class can impose a heavy financial burden on the laity, especially when the former have lavish lifestyles. Christian overseers, on the other hand, care for their financial needs by doing normal secular work, thus setting a good example for others.*—Acts 18:1-3; 20:33, 34; 2 Thessalonians 3:7-10.
2.-2.  Because a clergyman may depend on others for financial support, he might be tempted to dilute the Bible’s message in order to please parishioners. Indeed, the Scriptures foretold that this very thing would occur. 
6. The clergy-laity distinction tends to cause lay people to relegate religion to the clergy, while the laity just turn up for weekly services. Yet, all Christians must be conscious of their spiritual need and be good students of the Bible.—Matthew 4:4; 5:3.
7. When the laity are Biblically uninformed, they can easily be misled by clerics, even exploited by them. Indeed, history contains many examples of such abuses.*—Acts 20:29, 30.
In order to adhere closely to the pattern set down in the Bible, Jehovah’s Witnesses have, not a clergy class, but unpaid spiritual shepherds and teachers who willingly minister to God’s flock. 
What is wrong here? How with intentions and practice inside WT JWorg?  Intentions are looking good, theoretically. But, in practice, phrase 1. none is above or beneath the other is not fully correct, or it is not correct at all. Because,  2. Spiritually older men did, of course, serve as overseers, which included being shepherds and teachers. By this explanation, this men are in, are putted in position to be above other people who are not enough "spiritually older", what ever that could mean to be "older". In fact this phrase "spiritually older" means that such men, male (not any female, god save you from female spiritually older person :))))), are ordained and appointed by Management Structure (In past WT Headquarter made approval, today CO doing this, formally, but Who are involved, in fact, in this process is "heavenly secret", i guess, haha) 
Move ahead with 2. these men were not paid clerics.  2.-1. A paid clergy class can impose a heavy financial burden on the laity  2.-2.  Because a clergyman may depend on others for financial support, he might be tempted to dilute the Bible’s. What's wrong with these statements? This is Half truth. Major elder class worldwide who are in congregations are not paid for ministry. They are half ammeters and half professionals, it depends on their experience and how deep and honest they personally are as Christians and as Persons. Other "appointed" servants are depends on other people money. They get financial support in many various forms. In money or in kind. So, yes they get paid for work they doing. And they depend on others for financial support. They receives some money, and they have sort of free Medical care and guess some Insurance and Pension fund. Many JW people working in Betel's are not "clergy" but have status of Elders, Ministerial Servants, Full Time Servants, CO-s, etc, they gave Oath to Poverty, and other similar stuffs unknown to Public. By Donation money JW members supporting, not only publishing magazines and publications and books, but Works aka Life of all others JW people who are involved in many and various Organizational Programs (Missioner activity, Building KH that belongs to Society not to congregants, Lawyers and Lawyers Firms that are Witnesses or non-Witnesses, for Court cases of all kind etc.) By that JW have paid classes of people who working In The Company.
3.  serve as overseers, not by attending religious seminaries,   Here we have another incorrect claim. Elders are invited and participated in "religious seminaries" prepared, arranged  and guided by WT Society. They get instructions, advice's, new information's, etc. on how to run The Program inside Congregations.
4. Christian men in general are encouraged to reach out for that privilege, which is the custom among Jehovah’s Witnesses  Here is one interesting thing i put just for emphasis question of Customs, Traditions and Folklore. All people, no matter of who they are, have this things. So, JW people are also under this influences. Good or bad, that is another question to discus.  
5. not to adopt religious titles. WT Corporation has many Titles for people who are inside: Rank and File, Brother. Sister, Publisher, Unbaptized Publisher, Regular Pioneer, Auxiliary Pioneer, Special Pioneer, Missioner, Ministerial Servant, Elder, Overseer, Circuit Overseer, Secretary, Treasurer, Betel Member, International Servant or Volunteer, Construction Servant, Helper, Governing Body member, Anointed, etc. So, WT JWorg are not so different with titles for those who are inside Organization.
6. The clergy-laity distinction tends to cause lay people to relegate religion to the clergy, while the laity just turn up for weekly services. Because those "In Charge" aka elders are only one who are delegate by WT to give shepherding and teaching to the "flock" aka laity, that can cause relegate syndrome for laity aka rank and file members in JW congregation to be submissive to elders class in/to  such measure to visit Sunday Church Meetings as all other religious people who come to meetings for Social Reasons.  
7. When the laity are Biblically uninformed, they can easily be misled by clerics, even exploited by them. This is what take place in many issues in JW life and service. Take for example publication as "Shepherd book" or some other Internal memos coming from WT Headquarter to elders. If spiritual food in this documents are something based on Bible and are released to improve Congregation and Christian life and ministry, What can be reason for secrecy? Why only elders can see what was written there? That is clear evidence how exists Clergy-Laity distinction inside JWorg. What can be reason to not provide to members information's about content of such "only for Elders eye book"? Examples from Bible show how elders and all other members must follow "Bible principles". One of significant bible principles is that "Judicial things" must be free and open to all who want to know, who are involved, and those who are not involved in "case". "Investigation and Judging" must be in public place, beside city gates "Give judgment in your gates for truth, justice, and peace". Why in public? Think about reasons for that. Existence of "secret books and memos only for elders eyes" contribute to Elders-Laity class distinction" among JWorg. Is there something in this book that rank and file member will understand wrongly, or will be unable to understand rightly ??  :)))    
Beside these what was said, think about why Elders call for "clergy privilege" when Judge on Court ask them to reveal things about something what took place inside JW members. And based on this Elders refuse to answer questions on Court. How that can be, JW elders are not nominally "Clergy" but acting as normal "Clergy" in full measure. 
Well, some of clergy inside JWorg are not paid for service, and some are paid for service. Distinction existing.  
 
 
 
 
 
 

Case No 1. 
Quote "In 2010, before her husband became an Elder in their congregation, the abuse escalated even more. One of her sons, then 15, couldn’t take it any more."
It would appear that the Elders didn't act because the 'husband' was an Elder.  This seems to follow a pattern where Elders stick together to help each other when one is in trouble. 
What happened to the scripture about looking after 'widows and orphans', because this woman and her children were almost a 'widow and orphans' in the fact that the husband/father was not doing his duty of protecting them, but was in fact causing injury to them. 
The facts of him causing injury seem clear enough from medical reports and police evidence. 
but the black cat still blindly sticks up for the JW Org. 

Loss of words? My uncle isn't someone to be laughed at. Everything I said is also fact. You drive your head too far deep in the sand to not realize not everyone is like you or had the life that you had. Are you this ignorance of others outside the United Kingdom where you live? You must be the life of the party, Johnny 5.

Jesus with the organization that he leads results in persons of developing lands possessing modern Bible translations that, if need be, are free.
Jesus ‘in the hearts’ of renegade anointed who refuse to cooperate with an arrangement because they think they are not given their proper place results in those persons stuck with an archaic translation that they can neither understand nor afford.
That’s why I think he operates in the first way.
My, you give Jesus little credit.

Dear brother Judas Iscariot,
Your assignment as Apostle will be maintained due to Jehovah's new light (Pr 4:18). You had been serving faithfully for many years and there's a lot of evidence of God's blessing your life.
Please, be sure to deposit the 30 pieces of silver to the worldwide work as proof of your repentance.
Please accept our christian love,
Kenneth E. Cook, Jr. Samuel Frederick Herd Geoffrey William Jackson Mark Stephen Lett Gerrit Lösch Anthony Morris III D. Mark Sanderson David H. Splane

The governing body believes the following to be true:
Three months later = dfd; six years later = no problem
Someone might say "I'm glad I waited to tell on myself"
Confessing is optional, he might just get busted and still be in the clear.
"Serving faithfully" can include covering over serious sin for years
God blesses those that are covering over serious sin
The congregation can telepathically detect secret sins and will not respect you.

If it was a crime can you imagine a judge saying "well nobody found out you robbed the bank because you covered it up. Well done you can continue as the bank manager and not go to prison."
unless...
"evidence of God's blessing" IS not getting caught - lmao 😂🤣

To quote TTH " I do not ever say that the slave is wrong. It is not my place, even were I to think it. "
This is so sad as I presume he is talking about the Governing Body. 
Psalm 146
 3  Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation.
Remember that Tom. Those 8 men are only men. They are not God nor Jesus Christ. 
And ''if' they form part of the Anointed, they are only a tiny part of it. 

To quote the pussycat CA 
26  If any man thinks he is a worshipper of God but does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he is deceiving his own heart, and his worship is futile.
Ah but if you then look at the next verse 
27  The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.
Um, GB and JW Org complete FAILURE  

"The organization is highly devoted to what they perceive as the correct understanding of the Bible." 
Jehovah’s Witnesses is a Christian church, and we have some clear biblical guidelines on how to behave in order to enjoy and be part of the life in the congregation. If someone commits serious sins against the moral code of the Bible, a judicial committee must address whether this person can continue to be part of the congregation. The book which you have, explains how a judicial committee works and the biblical principles they must follow.
Here is the moral code:
 Jesus answered, “The most important is Listen, O Israel! The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. 31 The second is, Love your neighbor as yourself.There is no other command greater than these.”  Mark 12:29-31
No other, JWs. 
In court the boy also reveals how he had witnessed his mother knealing in front of his stepfather, begging for mercy.
And how he, the 15 year old, tried to go between them to stop the violence. But nothing worked. It’s then he, out of sheer desperation, together with his older brother, approached the Elders in their congregation. The brothers tell the Elders what is going on at home.
"I can’t witness this any more, how my mother and baby brothers are treated". That’s what he told the Elders. But they did nothing," says the woman.
WHO HAS BROKEN THE MORAL CODE OF THE BIBLE, BUT THE MEN WHO MAKE A PRETENSE OF FOLLOWING IT?
THIS IS WHY THE TWO-WITNESS RULE CONCERNING CHILD ABUSE DOESN'T WORK.  THE ORGANIZATION PERCEIVES IT AS COLD AND CALCULATING. 
If there was true love among the entire army of leaders in the organization, the elders would have acted upon it and responded to the boy's plea for help.
"Because lawlessness will multiply, the love of many will grow cold."  Matt 24:12 

Think I will order four 50 pound bags of dry dog food, delivered to my 5th floor walk-up apartment.

Yesterday in service there was one of those pissy little yappy dogs nipping at my pant leg. I was annoyed with its strength.
You overestimate yourself, John.

Well, there you go then. Coordinated effort such as under the direction of the GB can result in real spiritual benefits to people around the world, particularly in developing lands.
You sitting ALONE in your hut cannot, even if you are tight with Jesus.
I think it is the selfishness of the independent course that most annoys me. 

You poor man. You cannot stand the point that I AM AN INDIVIDUAL.
You always harp back to things like "your side becomes disorganized rabble"
Tom, i do not have a 'side'.  Please get it through your head that i act totally ALONE. 
Um Tom, does that cause you a problem with your BOOKS ?  Does it mean you may have to rethink and rewrite some of it ? 
You pretend that you know everything about ex-JW's, or apostates as you like to call them. But in truth you probably know very little, or more to the point you only know what you want to know. 
"Every project needs direction and someone to lead.    8 basically American men, where you could have 12 or more men from around the Earth. The Anointed are many and widespread it seems. 
And, the GB / Writing dept / JW Org, leaves itself wide open to inspection and criticism.