JOHN BUTLER

I suppose it tells me I should walk into a Police station and tell them directly. 

(paragraph) 6 A sin against the congregation
"We do not tolerate in our midst individuals who unrepentantly commit wicked deeds and who bring reproach on the good name of the congregation."
Um, how is it then that some Elders have been found to have commited sex offencies against more than one child and a lot more than once per child, in a congregation ? 
Court cases prove this point. 

you're taking us down a hypothetical right? 
If nothing is said and no one knows anything, then yes on your technicality there is nothing to report ( see John, its the loophole thing again). However, we're NOT talking about hypothetical, we're talking about real life and real people and real situations, or else there wouldn't be any lawsuits....right?   

Of course it is. It is the MO of the wt in general. Sadly the good people who belong to this org can't see it yet. They will when the wt/gb pins the onus on the individual instead of the group. Loopholes are common in wt and often used in supporting their view of scripture. 

Go directly to the police or a local authority. Do not go to the body of Elders. Trust no one, but know that God allows those secular  authorities to be there to do His work. 
Now I'm presuming that the single mother and child has good standing in the congregation of course, so that no accusations can be 'slung' at them by the Elders in retaliation. 
Not so in my case, as I've already been accused of slander and was threatened of being disfellowshipped before i left..  
I never did hear back from the Police that i contacted online.  

Any comments on JW Elders using Clergy Privilege to withhold information of child abuse ?
Just a paragraph form a report online :-
The two elders didn’t tell police. They, and the congregation, now face a lawsuit from the Delaware attorney general accusing them of violating the state’s mandated reporting laws. The defendants claim the elders were protected from having to report the abuse by a legal exemption for clergy.
Is this a massive loophole ? 

Anna, it IS what we are discussing, what made me think this:  this:
 
And so that makes it ok???????? are you serious?!?!?!?!?   As people who profess to follow the BIBLE shouldn't the conduct be that above other spheres of society? Or do you feel its ok because everyone is slime? so we might as well be slime too. Sheesh
 
the wt/gb/etc. For reference you can research all of the surrent and past court cases involving CSA in the US/Canada/Australia/England/Germany/Norway/......shall I continue? 
 
there is NOTHING Christ-like about allowing CSA or any abuse to continue because the "laws" of men don't require reporting it to the police. 
 
 
So when the ms or elder molests a child and tells the child that he/she will kill them or their family or the family dog , scares them into submission, its ok because they didn't want to tell. Is this what you are saying? Or how about the wife that is getting the crap beat out of her and fears for her life, let it continue because she is scared to report for fear of more abuse? Riiiiight. Sounds like a good plan Anna. 

Paragraph 17. What is the role of the judicial committee?
" The elders do not interfere with law enforcement; they leave criminal matters to the secular authorities. "
But they may withhold paperwork / documents /notes, from the police or authorities, even when requested to hand them over. 

I agree with you, there is NOTHING Christ-like about allowing CSA or any abuse to continue because the "laws" of men don't require reporting it to the police. 
Can you even imagine, when the time comes, and Jesus is standing there asking each and every one of us about our life choices. When He asks, are some people really going to say "well, there wasn't a law stating we had to report CSA/abuse to proper authorities" 
Romans 14:10"...For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
    and every tongue shall confess[b] to God.”
12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God."
 

Yes but if there are not two witnesses then there will be 'no case to answer', especially if the accused is an Elder. 
And if there is 'no case to answer' then there will of course be nothing to report to the authorities. 
And if the victim continues to make complaint against the Elder, then the victim will be disfellowshipped for slander. 
I have the mag up online now. 
" 15 In the congregation, before the elders take judicial action, why are at least two witnesses required? This requirement is part of the Bible’s high standard of justice. "
Is this really the case in Child Abuse ? Does it say this in the Bible regarding Child Abuse ?
I think not. I think it refers to a disagreement between two adults. 
I do not think God or Christ would put this pressure on young children. 

So when the ms or elder molests a child and tells the child that he/she will kill them or their family or the family dog , scares them into submission, its ok because they didn't want to tell. Is this what you are saying? Or how about the wife that is getting the crap beat out of her and fears for her life, let it continue because she is scared to report for fear of more abuse? Riiiiight. Sounds like a good plan Anna. 
Then leave crimes to the police instead of covering them up! Report the crime and THEN deal with the sin. 

Melinda,  Come on. This IS the wt we're talking about. Well known fact here what CSA means in wt world

Why does it take the Inquisition into the CSA by governments around the world, lawsuits in many countries and  the threat of non-profit status in a few countries to FORCE the wt/gb to amend the CSA policy?  The article is in the May 2019 WT and the title of the article is "Love and Justice in the Face of Wickedness". 
 
 
"13 Do elders comply with secular laws about reporting an allegation of child abuse to the secular authorities? Yes. In places where such laws exist, elders endeavor to comply with secular laws about reporting allegations of abuse....So when they learn of an allegation, elders immediately seek direction on how they can comply with laws about reporting it."
 
I can see that they still won't enforce reporting to the police each and every CSA case only if required by law.  Key word is "REQUIRED" .
 
"14 Elders assure victims and their parents and others with knowledge of the  matter that they are free to report an allegation of abuse to the secular authorities. But what if the report is about someone who is a part of the congregation and the matter then becomes known in the community? Should the Christian who reported it feel that he has brought reproach on God’s name? No. The abuser is the one who brings reproach on God’s name."
 
Finally, they finally get it that it is the wrong doer who is the bad guy and not the reporter.......but, I'm sure this is just lip service. And here's why:
 
 
16 When they learn that someone in the congregation is accused of child abuse, elders endeavor to comply with any secular laws about reporting the matter, and then they conduct a Scriptural investigation. If the individual denies the accusation, the elders consider the testimony of witnesses. If at least two people—the one making the accusation and someone else who can verify this act or other acts of child abuse by the accused—establish the charge, a judicial committee is formed. 
 
And there you have it, two witness rule still in effect and no mandatory reporting of CSA unless mandated by law.
However, what is the true gain here? Not much, but some is better than nothing, the fact that whoever reports is not the bad guy, the abuser is.  What a wonderful provision made by the loving Jehoverning body. I hope that one day the gb/wt will be on par with humanity in reporting ALL accusations of CSA or any abuse for that matter. 

I get the feeling things will remain the same until the GB is gone.   Rev 17:16

CSA - the acronym - should be first written out, then referred to as an acronym later. If you mean child sexual abuse you are the one to say it first.
Initialism
Canadian Space Agency Confederate States of America (UK) Child Support Agency (Northern Ireland) Central Services Agency (US) combined statistical area community-supported agriculture community service announcement and many more, e.g.  .... Standards Association/Accreditation.
 

I am 15 and I do not have disguises, why would I be lying about my age? Going on 16 in the next few months, and gonna work on my permit soon. I already get stressed out from period schedules with study hall being my time of rest at school. My words have importance because you are saying I have attitude when I do not. Those guys only care about slandering Jehovah God even saying bad stuff about him, others threaten me or others and I have proof of it.
So if you were in my shoes, what would you have done? If someone said something extremely bad about God or misuse verses to fit the needs of worldly things today, would you speak and maintain mildness or would you explode like how you are here now? Pops, I can tell you now, these people I confront you wouldn't be able to handle em.
I don't know who Billy is. Billy the Kid as in the 21 year old who took out 8 men before he went down?

Too bad then. Because God is far superior to any man made organisation. 
It is wrong to interchange those words. 
An organisation is good as God is a God of order not disorder. 
However, the organisation has to have God's approval and be guided by God's Holy spirit.
The GB and the JW Org show that it does NOT have God's approval and is NOT guided by God's Holy spirit.
So it is not doing God's will properly. 

It is impossible to even fathom how God operates. One thing is sure; He has the power and the desire to fulfill his purpose.  He can do it anyway he wants, and in his superlative wisdom he knows the best way. I cannot deny that He probably works some type of miracles today, but I cannot see how he would single out certain individuals because he thinks their life has more value than another person’s life. The only factor that may play a part is if that certain person has a role in fulfilling his purpose. The person himself will not even be aware of that. But whether Jehovah protects someone because of a role they play in fulfilling his purpose, or does not protect someone because they have a less important role, eventually both persons will gain everlasting life.  So the reward  will be the same for both. And another factor to think about (and I think it has already been mentioned)  is if Jehovah would protect individuals serving him, then Satan’s challenge he raised with Job would have no meaning.  So I am usually pretty sceptical when it comes to claims that Jehovah stepped in and saved someone.  Anyone can claim that, but that doesn’t make it true. I have already shared this story on here somewhere, but it’s relevant so I will mention it again: A while ago a sister, a Bethelite, was walking back to the Bethel from having been out in service all day when someone grabbed her from behind, stabbed her in the neck and ran off with her handbag.  The surgeons were amazed and said that the chance of the blade missing her jugular was almost zero. They told her she was lucky to be alive. This sister (and others) believes Jehovah saved her, by making the blade miss the jugular. Personally, I believe it was chance. But I cannot deny that if Jehovah had wanted to, he could have of course. This sister works in the translating department, so she plays quite an important role. So did Jehovah “save” her because of her role? And had she worked as a housekeeper, would he have allowed her to get killed? Housekeepers are a dime a dozen, good translators are not.  But then Jehovah could bring in a replacement couldn’t he? So where would the line be drawn with regard to “interfering” in man’s affairs, and putting a "protective fence around his people"?
All good things come from God. But they may not always be directly caused by God.  People can do good deeds by themselves, because that is an innate trait created in them by Jehovah when he created man in his image.  We should give thanks to God for every good thing, so there is nothing wrong with this sister thanking Jehovah, even if Jehovah may have had nothing to do with it.
Also, as JW Insider pointed out, many people who believe in God also attribute apparent miracles to Him. If the sister had been a Catholic lady walking to her church, no doubt she would have also attributed this “miracle” to God.
But as @Srecko Sostar mentioned "time and chance happens to them all". Some for better and some for worse.

I think we might be a little harsh in judging F. Franz for having said this, as from your statement above it was obviously nonsensical. I feel it was just his way of saying things, or maybe the way some people spoke. Although it came across as haughty, I doubt Fred's intention was to put himself above God. Who does that?

All the anointed I have ever known were elders, except for the sisters of course.

GB also needs instruction just like everyone else.  When Jesus fed the 5 thousand with two fishes and few loaves, his disciples were to form groups of people and then distribute this food to them. I have no doubt that the disciples not only distributed the food they had from Jesus, but they also ate it themselves. And Jesus did too.
‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word * that comes from Jehovah’s mouth.’  The GB are not exempt from this. Not only that , but in reply to Satan, about changing the stones into bread, Jesus applied this to himself too, that he relied on his Father for spiritual food. So if Jesus needs "instructions" from Jehovah, how much more so the GB?  The only one that doesn't need to be spiritually fed is Jehovah.
* the Bible

I believe it was at a District Convention, and the speaker was exhorting those not to believe every dumb thing, when the he related the one about the sole Witness walking the gritty streets at night with all the Society’s money and how he escaped mugging on account of the huge angels walking alongside.
”What was he doing alone at night with all the Society’s money?” the speaker said. “I’m sure the Society would like to know.”
I’ll overlook this bit of clumsiness just once. The byline for ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates!’ is a Dylan line: “The game is the same, it’s just up on another level.”
It is best to blame things like this on autocorrect. May its inventor rot in hello.

I think there are only a couple examples of persons who were not anointed, about 13 men in all. Interestingly, Luke (as the writer of Acts), mentions that while not "anointed" Apollos was "aglow with the spirit."
(Acts 18:24-19:7) . . .Now a Jew named A·polʹlos, a native of Alexandria, arrived in Ephʹe·sus; he was an eloquent man who was well-versed in the Scriptures. 25 This man had been instructed in the way of Jehovah, and aglow with the spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things about Jesus, but he was acquainted only with the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, and when Pris·cilʹla and Aqʹui·la heard him, they took him into their company and explained the way of God more accurately to him. 27 Further, because he wanted to go across to A·chaʹia, the brothers wrote to the disciples, urging them to receive him kindly. So when he got there, he greatly helped those who through God’s undeserved kindness had become believers; 28 for publicly and with great intensity he thoroughly proved the Jews to be wrong, showing them from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ. 19 In the course of events, while A·polʹlos was in Corinth, Paul went through the inland regions and came down to Ephʹe·sus. There he found some disciples 2 and said to them: “Did you receive holy spirit when you became believers?” They replied to him: “Why, we have never heard that there is a holy spirit.” 3 So he said: “In what, then, were you baptized?” They said: “In John’s baptism.” 4 Paul said: “John baptized with the baptism in symbol of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul laid his hands on them, the holy spirit came upon them, and they began speaking in foreign languages and prophesying. 7 There were about 12 men in all. Some scholars have assumed that, for many of the early years at least,  Baptists were probably a larger group than the Christians. John had obviously baptized many persons before Jesus got there, and there were already crowds being baptized by John. The similarities of their beliefs might have allowed some to join with Christians and not realize that there was more to being a Christian than just verbal acceptance of a Christian message on top of a Baptist message. Some scholars also believe there is early documented evidence of an ongoing debate or even a competition between followers of John the Baptist and followers of Jesus the Christ.
Interesting, too, is the story that explorers in the Middle East in the 1700's came across one or more Bedouin groups, who explained that they were not Christians but claimed to have been followers of John the Baptist for thousands of years. I'll have to look up the story again to get the exact details. It's possible they were followers of Mandaeism, who see John the Baptist as a more important person than Jesus. 
Some scholars, and I might be using the term loosely, have also thought that the Qumram community (the probable guardians of the Dead Sea Scroll "library") was related to John's preaching, and that most of John's followers would have been Essenes.  
Another aside, but Apollos, by some, is considered a prime candidate to have been the author of the book of Hebrews. Note that he was eloquent, and zealous in preaching to Hebrews about Christ. I think it is a minority of modern scholars who believe that Paul wrote the book of Hebrews. We have no evidence one way or another in scripture itself except style and content, but Paul's "calling" or ministry was not to the Hebrews.
 

I had different "motive" why i "had to" quit school in the middle of second grade of high school. (In Croatia we have 8 grades in Primary School and then 4 grades in High School. ......After you can go to "Higher Education" aka University .... ahahaha)
To come back ... In first and second grade, school has program (Communism era) of learning about weapons inside subject called,  in free translation "Pre-military training". In first grade you learned theoretically and in second grade teacher bringing rifles and after students going to shooting place to shoot one or few bullets in wooden target, ...I guess it was wooden :))) .
If you not complete and went to shooting, you can't get evaluation and in final missed to passed a school class, year. I have been baptized in that same month, one Sunday in November 1977. And next day, in Monday, had to, must to "defend"  my "christian belief" in front of teacher. Of course, without happy outcome for me :)))). Well, as i can not see any future in this, i quit school and looking for some job. Imagine. Even elders made meeting in congregation with me to ask about what was happen, but i felt as i was suspected of something from elders.
What can you do without some school or skills or practice and experience? But after one year i get job and learning to be bookbinder in one small workshop not far from home place, in fact 10-15 minutes by walk.....  Doing that for some 1,5 year, in meanwhile went to prison for known reason, and then continue next 1,5 year at same workshop.
 

... many, many years ago i heard JW people talking the same "story"here mentioned. 
You open interesting question. Why would god provide help, protection to some JW and not to other JW. When i was much younger, that means, many, many years ago ... again, i heard another "story", true or not, do not know. Some young sisters preached  from house to house (from flat to flat in building) to some young man. A re-visit was agreed. They came next time and then several men raped them.
So, again why would "angels that stand around you as protectors" in preaching service and in life, generally, allowed this crime to happened ?????????????????????????????
Is the answer? To be proved how this World is in power of evil one????... or maybe ...."People must answer on Universal Questions about god's sovereignty, ...or this .....Would people obey god from Love?????? .... or maybe ... So I reflected on all this and concluded that the righteous and the wise and what they do are in God’s hands, but no one knows whether love or hate awaits them. 2 All share a common destiny—the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad,[a] the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not........
I have seen something else under the sun:
The race is not to the swift
    or the battle to the strong,
nor does food come to the wise
    or wealth to the brilliant
    or favor to the learned;
but time and chance happen to them all.
Please, Do not joke/yoke me with this or similar answers !!!!!!!!!