JOHN BUTLER

@BillyTheKid46 Quote : This is why the GB adheres to scripture without confusing its understanding like many here.
That is a good laugh ! Thanks Kid.
Like the two witness rule used in Child Abuse cases, but not used in Fornication accusations.  
And the fact that a person has to agree to 'serve' the Org when they get baptised. 
Kid you are completely blind. 

You really don't want to listen do you.
The Elders know about the situation. The Elders have the names of both parties concerned. I don't have the name of the victim.
Now if what you say is true, the Elders would have already informed the Police right ?  No, i don't think so. 
And i cannot talk to the accused or the Elders as I have left the org and not one of the 120 / 130 people will talk to me. 
Now i haven't told people not to talk to me, so it's their fault if I cannot warn them. I left the Org so that i could warn people, but those congregants have chosen of their own free will (because of fear of punishment) not to talk to me. So i no longer feel responsible. 
Nearly 12 pm here in England, so good night to you. 
 

10. Child abuse is a serious sin. If an alleged abuser is a member of the congregation, the elders
conduct a Scriptural investigation. This is a purely religious proceeding handled by elders according
to Scriptural instructions and is limited to the issue of membership as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. A
member of the congregation who is an unrepentant child abuser is expelled from the congregation and
is no longer considered one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (1 Corinthians 5:13) The elders’ handling of an
accusation of child abuse is not a replacement for the authorities’ handling of the matter.—Romans

Why cant the policy state to take it to the police first? 
Who is more trained to handle these types of situations? Elders/police? 

Oops.  If they expect obedience from their anointed “brothers”, they certainly have “substituted” themselves for Christ, robbing the lowly insignificant anointed of their ability to listen only to Christ.    The GB have made it very clear by their  Bible translation, using the word "substitute" twice, for emphasis.  NWT 2 Cor 5:20  Since they claim to be the only "faithful and discreet slave", who other than themselves can "substitute" for Christ?  Matt 24:48-51
In reality, no one.  No one can substitute as the Head of the anointed Body of Christ.  
Another oops.  Their false “priesthood”, the elder body, do just that.  Haven't you heard of a "judicial committee"?  They have the power to kick someone out as a sinner, and feel qualified to discern that God has forgiven a sinner, to allow them back in the congregation.
Where have you been?
 
 

I certainly hear you.  My concentration level has never been good.  I'm always asking in prayer for the ability to discipline my mind and keep it on the right track.  I believe it's called  "ADD". 
 

I will set some time aside to look deeper into all this. My concentration level is not good, but i will make time to follow the links and research. Thank you. 

"from wise and intellectual ones"
Kingdom Interlinear translate this  with "from comprehending ones"
 
Definition of comprehend       https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/comprehend
transitive verb
1: to grasp the nature, significance, or meaning of
unable to comprehend what has happened
2: to contain or hold within a total scope, significance, or amount…
philosophy's scope comprehends the truth of everything which man may understand …— Henry Osborn Taylor
3: to include by construction or implication
Does not prudence comprehend all the virtues?— Thomas B. Silver
Our civilization comprehends great variety and complexity …— Perry Meisel
4: to understand (something, such as a difficult or complex subject)
5: to understand (something, such as a difficult or complex subject)
By this, in my comprehending of issue :))), Jesus say nothing against Education in human Society. GB has made wrong understanding and interpretations about this verse. 
Even if we using NWT Translation, here is nothing for  Bible readers today, to say how Education is wrong. WT has completely erroneously using this verse for purpose to promote false teaching.   
Definition of intellectual 
(Entry 1 of 2)
1a: of or relating to the intellect or its use
b: developed or chiefly guided by the intellect rather than by emotion or experience : RATIONAL
c: requiring use of the intellectintellectual games
2a: given to study, reflection, and speculation
b: engaged in activity requiring the creative use of the intellectintellectual playwrights

Did you know that the anointed who are under covenant with God are referred to as “gods”?  They are “living stones” of God’s Temple. 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17 They are the firstborn/firstfruits sons of God.  If they become one with Christ as his Bride, would they not be gods?   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Pet+2%3A5%2C9%3B+1+Cor+3%3A16%2C17+&version=NKJV
I said, "You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.  Ps 82:6
John 10:34-36 -
"Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’?  If he called them ‘gods,’ toward whom the word of God came —
Those who received the word of God were God's people under covenant:   Jude1:3; Matt.25:14; 13:11; 11:25,27; 16:17; 1Cor.4:1,2; 2:10; 1Pet.1:12,25; Eph.3:10; Isa.53:1; Amos3:7; Gal.1:11,12; John3:11   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jude1%3A3%3B+Matt.25%3A14%3B+13%3A11%3B+11%3A25%2C27%3B+16%3A17%3B+1Cor.4%3A1%2C2%3B+2%3A10%3B+1Pet.1%3A12%2C25%3B+Eph.3%3A10%3B+Isa.53%3A1%3B+Amos3%3A7%3B+Gal.1%3A11%2C12%3B+John3%3A11&version=NKJV
and Scripture cannot be set aside—  what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? John1:14,9; 18:37; 7:16; 12:49  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1%3A14%2C9%3B+18%3A37%3B+7%3A16%3B+12%3A49&version=NKJV
Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?" John 10:34-36 
The page number is my mistake.  I am sorry.   It is in Chapter 18, under the subheading of “The Meaning of your Baptism” starting on page 182.  Paragraph 24 is where the quote comes from. 
There is a web page that I have given you.  It has thousands of visitors each day who read and learn.  Most do not state their name, because Christ knows who the faithful are, who are hungry and who want understanding.  Yet, on that page are links to facebook pages, where many members are gathering by name.  Not all member are believers, as quite a few are still staunch JWs.  The food is offered, free for the taking. It is up to the heart’s desire to either continue taking in spiritual food or to leave it behind.  It is the Marriage Feast.  Rev 22:17  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+22%3A17&version=NKJV
We should remember that those whom God calls to expose the sins of His people, are lowly and despised.  They are despised by their own people. Many will not recognize them. 2 Pet 3:4; Luke 19:41,42, Jer 13:17; Matt 13:15; Mark 4:12; Ezek 12:2; Rev 3:3   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Pet+3%3A4%3B+Luke+19%3A41%2C42%2C+Jer+13%3A17%3B+Matt+13%3A15%3B+Mark+4%3A12%3B+Ezek+12%3A2%3B+Rev+3%3A3+&version=NKJV
The “movement” begins with one individual – Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Elijah, Moses, Micah, Hosea, John the Baptist.   Jesus promised that “Elijah” would restore “all things”. Matt 17:11; Dan 12:4; Rev 11:1-3 What would this one restore?  Truth, that “living stones” are to make known. What does this one reveal?  Lies, that false prophets have taught to seduce “living stones” and companions.  Teachings, that the Temple Body of Christ must come together in unity, which will be manifested in the Kingdom.    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+17%3A11%3B+Dan+12%3A4%3B+Rev+11%3A1-3 &version=NKJV
To serve God properly does not take a regimented organized commitment to men.   That is influence from Satan’s realm.  Jesus has nothing to do with Satan’s type of “organization”.  God has already organized His form of worship, His Temple, beginning with the foundation stones and the cornerstone, Christ.  1 Cor chapter 12; 1 Cor 3:11; Eph 2:19-22   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Cor+12%3A1-31%3B+1+Cor+3%3A11%3B+Eph+2%3A19-22&version=NKJV
 It requires a desire of the heart to want to align itself with God’s decrees in Christ, and it takes earnest effort.   This is how we worship in spirit and truth, relying on the Father and Jesus’ help in spirit, to lead one to truth which those whom Christ sends (not whom men appoint), provide.  John 4:23,24; John 13:20   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+4%3A23%2C24%3B+John+13%3A20&version=NKJV
It is the Great Tribulation – different from all other spiritual difficulties God’s people have experienced throughout history. Matt 24:21   Your struggles show it; you are in the process of sifting the truth from the lies.    If God chooses a lowly woman to bless with Holy Spirit and reveal the sins of His people, who are we to question His actions?   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+24%3A21&version=NKJV
  For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.   But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised, God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are that no flesh should glory in His presence. 1 Cor 1:26-29
“base things” can mean, “of no family, a man of base birth, a man of no name or reputation”  
Pearl certainly had no reputation in the organization, as do most anointed ones, as well as myself.  You will know if what one teaches is truth, if everything that person says is backed up with God’s Word and teaches what Christ taught, just as the apostles did.   You already notice the oppression of the anointed in the organization, the trampling of God’s “Temple” by elders Matt 24:14-16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3   It is a “disgusting thing” that we are to flee from – and we go the “mountains”, “Israel”, represented by the anointed “living stones” of God’s Temple/Zion.  The “prophesy” that “Elijah”  trumpets, is to these “mountains”, to leave their captivity and return to their Head, Jesus Christ. Matt 25:1  And it is to those restored "mountains"/hills, where those leaving the “city”, go, who desire to join the Marriage Feast.  Matt 22:4 
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+24%3A14-16%3B+2+Thess+2%3A3%2C4%3B+Rev+11%3A1-3%3B+Matt+25%3A1%3B+22%3A4+++&version=NKJV
(See Ezekiel chapter 36   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezek+36&version=NIV)
The links are to scriptures, which hopefully make it easier to read them.  
Rev 18:4-8 - And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. 6 Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. 7 In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’ 8 Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.
 

As to my knowledge, Judicial Committee will not disfellowshipp somebody because he/she going to University. But if father of such child is an elder some questions can be directing to him. Sometimes congregational environment, details of group interrelations, fundamentalism of some prominent individuals (elders) can be involved on how such persons will be treated.    
Some young bro or sis parallely going to University and pioneering. By that they softening some "attacks" and  "disarm" those who would try to complain. General JW policy is against Higher Education, and that is evident from official statements in publications and public talks.  

Luke 10 v 21  In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved.
This seems to show that 'higher education' was not needed to learn, understand and teach, the truth from God, at that time. 
It seems to be a well know thing within the JW Org and by people outside of same, that JW's are 'told' not to aim for higher education. I say told, although some will say strongly advised, with a possible caution of being disfellowshipped. 
Now I've noticed on here recently that deep conversation about many things has been and is taking place. Politics earthwide. religious beliefs earthwide and the latest thing seems to be Evolution (from a very deep standpoint ). ( These things were never taught to me at school. )
I left school at 15 years old, as soon as I was able, for reasons previously mentioned. Here in UK now teenagers have to remain in education until they are 18. The three years from 15 to 18 seem to me to be almost 'higher education', but compulsory.  How much they learn at school now I've no idea. 
My feelings are, and yes ok i cannot put proof to these feelings, but, my feelings are, that all forms of higher education are advised against by the GB and the JW Org. Some of you may have some proof of this in writing. So, where does this leave JW's ?
If a young person leaves school to go into full time 'service' ministry, they do not get a higher education. Their 'basic' education may have been just that, very basic. They are then not 'qualified' to talk to others on a higher education level, and this might even be to the point of not understanding such things as are being discussed on here lately. 
( Much of what is being discussed leaves me miles behind. I'm a very simple person. Plus at 69 I forget more than i learn. Yes I do write lots of notes and have books for recording different things, but the mind boggles. )
With respect for those I knew and loved in the past, within my ex congregation, many of them were 'simple country folk'. And I think Tom said about not having the time or inclination to do research online or or otherwise. So let us go back to the scripture at the top. 
So many questions. Does God reveal more to those of a lesser education ?  Is higher education and greater knowledge a disadvantage when wanting to serve God properly?
Or is it that those of higher education are too stubborn to learn God's way ?  Too proud maybe ?   
There are many things that the Bible doesn't tell us. is that deliberate ? Does God want to keep it simple for us ? So, should we pursue more knowledge about worldly things ? 
A problem may occur when talking to others about God, in that they may have more knowledge on a certain subject than we do and therefore believe something different. Should we then educate ourselves to their level on the same subject, or just pass them by ?  Bearing in mind the scripture at the top of this page. 
There has to be a balance of course. But my feelings are that the GB would like JW's to be educated only by the Watchtower studies and by the 'workbook' evening meeting studies. And of course by personal Bible reading.   But do JW's do as they are told in this respect or do a lot of them 'educate themselves', or take further education elsewhere ? 
 
 

Dear Felix, your gave your trust in "noble man" of GB. JW believe how only They are anointed to making interpretations on Bible text. 
I am not making "criticism" about WT but have Critical Thinking about WTGB doctrines and policy.
My name is Srećko, in English Lucky, Happy and Successful, Latin is Felix :))))
Important!! Read this 3 times every day, every 8 hours, as antibiotic cure :))  Then Joseph said to them, “Do not interpretations belong to God?

Um, offended I don't think so. I find you amusing actually. I'm happy that you read my posts though. 
And this is just a forum, it is not guided by Holy Spirit, so letting off steam is ok. 
Do tell me though how my criticism of the GB and it's JW org concerning Child Abuse has failed ?  I think it is the GB that have failed to protect the congregation Earthwide. 
As for discussion, we don't ask you to take part in it. If you find it pointless then please don't bother us again. 

Oh dear I think I've hit a nerve of yours. But you were saying about my pointless criticism so I thought I'd show you a criticism that had complete truth in it. 

Are you still that far behind, catch up. We finished that part of the discussion hours ago. 
you can use that word if it so please you. Doesn't make it right .
 

I won't be pathetic enough (unlike some) to start calling you names or retaliate to your last comment.
The scripture i quoted still stands. It is from God's word and  accordingly does not appear in it. 
In my opinion the scriptures were written only for the Anointed to FULLY understand. Yes of course we of the earthly class can understand much of it, but not all and not fully. 
The TRUE Anointed obviously have a much closer relationship with God and with Jesus Christ. 
Hence the scripture 'ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew', spiritual Jew of course. The Anointed
But the whole point in question is, are the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses 'perfect' ? That is, perfect in the way that Jesus meant in that scripture. And the answer has to be NO. As can be seen by their actions and words.
You may say it's not my place to judge, but we have to judge to know whom we should follow. 
I think that brings us back on topic. The GB pretending to be things they are not.
1. They cannot be Anointed          2. They cannot be the Faithful and discreet slave. 

I do not understand your position Arauna. You using so called "scientific" names, words, evidences .... but have big doubts about science and scientists. Well, why you talking about Cambrian period when you in your title put clear statement that send your strong belief how millions of years about fossils (and not only about fossils but all other things about Earth and Universe) is something impossible because Bible not support such view.    
Previous you said, quote:  "It is a totally unscientific statement and even if you say you are a scientist 1000 times, it does not make you a scientist..."  and   "There are many kinds of scientists"
 
Cambrian Period, earliest time division of the Paleozoic Era, extending from 541 million to 485.4 million years ago. The Cambrian Period is divided into four stratigraphic series: the Terreneuvian Series (541 million to 521 million years ago), Series 2 (521 million to 509 million years ago), Series 3 (509 million to 497 million years ago), and the Furongian Series (497 million to 485.4 million years ago).
https://www.britannica.com/science/Cambrian-Period
You give us impression you don't accept how fossils are millions of years old but you say this: There are no life forms in the evolutionary record which proves step by step development of feathers or flight etc. Cambrian explosion proves that. 
Many JW still believe in 7000 year period of Creative days. Here, you want to prove how Evolution is impossible because Cambrian explosion of life proves opposite. But in same time forget how Cambrian period last (happened - edited),  few hundreds millions years, according to scientists. Well, 7000 years against millions of Cambrian years. What would you chose in fact, what you want to chose today? 

Then I can only say, what are you doing here? Scripture is meant for those that follow Christ, not become retaliatory to let off steam. If you have insight about scripture with a better interpretation, then, by all means, let’s hear it. This idea of criticism by you and Bultler has brought nothing but failures in understanding. We are all adults. But there is a difference between being a human grownup, and being a spiritual child that matured. Let’s get off meaningless criticism and concentrate in fundamental in Bible truth if you wish to learn. If not, then there is no need for further discussion.

Teaching and inspiring, about this issue, is job for Spirit, not for me to care about. Because Word we talking about aka Bible aka God's and Jesus's teaching are not came in existence with my birth day.
If you believe in Bible reports about Power of Spirit who made that people speaking various languages and in that way give testimony about God, then you can put your trust in this same Spirit.
This Spirit, i suppose, is able to overcome language barriers, you talking about,  because this same Spirit was causing language barriers in humankind before many centuries, according to Bible report.  
People run Corporations (GB run WTJWorg inc.) but I am not sure that Holy Spirit have interest to run any Human Corporation. I would rather be ready to believe how Holy Spirit wish to run human hearts.  
By such influence, on people's hearts .... all your doubts can be explained.    :))

Of course you are aware that the word accordingly was put in by the GB or writing dept of W/t are't you ?
Hence i gave you the King James version also. 
The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek is this :-
"You shall be therefore you perfect as the Father of you the heavenly perfect is."
That is directly from the Greek hence seems strange BUT no mention of the word ACCORDINGLY.
The GB make it up as they go along. 
And this perfection is expected of the Anointed not of the earthly class. 

Don't know if this is exactly a new letter but it's interesting.
https://reclaimedvoices.org/en/2019/01/02/a-Jehovahs-Witness-writes-a-letter-to-all-the-Jehovahs-Witnesses-in-the-Netherlans/
Worth a read i think 

Apostasy (/əˈpɒstəsi/; Greek: ἀποστασία apostasia, "a defection or revolt") is the formal disaffiliation from, or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion contrary to one's previous beliefs.
Apostasy is NOT taking a stand against the Bible, nor is it rebelling against God or Jesus Christ. 
Apostasy is turning away from a former religion. The disciples became apostates when they turned away from the Jewish way of serving God and turned to follow Jesus. 
Jesus was put to death because he was an apostate of the Jewish faith. Remember that Jesus was born as a Jew and raised as a Jew. Then remember how Jesus spoke to the Pharisees. The Jews saw that as apostasy. 
Just because you can copy and paste from Watchtower Library does not mean you know truth. 
By copy and paste of W/T library you prove that you do follow men, amd that you put your faith in those men. 

Quote : " Any case I found a new tit-bit.  On the JW app is says that the beast with the seven heads has a different kind of rulership than the Eighth king. Small difference but significant. "
Wow, and of course you will believe anything the GB tells you, even though they have a massive history of GETTING THINGS WRONG. 

Depends what exactly you mean by a reliable source.
Only God's word is a reliable source, and then only if translated properly.