JOHN BUTLER

Early in 1933, the Watchtower office in Berlin was closed and Jehovah's Witnesses were banned in many German states. This was due to the refusal of Jehovah's Witnesses to swear loyalty to the government or to serve in its armed forces.
In an attempt to appease Hitler into lifting the ban, Rutherford instigated a Declaration of Fact sand sent a Letter to Hitler discussing the Watchtower's support of the Nazi regime.
"Therefore, on June 25, 1933, a declaration regarding their ministry and its objectives was adopted by Jehovah's Witnesses at an assembly in Berlin. Copies were sent to all the high government officials, and millions more were distributed to the public. Nevertheless, in July 1933 the courts refused to grant a hearing for relief. Early the following year, a personal letter regarding the situation was written by J. F. Rutherford to Adolf Hitler and delivered to him by special messenger. Then the entire worldwide brotherhood went into action. 
On Sunday morning, October 7, 1934, at nine o'clock, every group of Witnesses in Germany assembled. They prayed for Jehovah's guidance and blessing. Then each group sent a letter to German government officials declaring their firm determination to keep on serving Jehovah." - Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimer's Of God's Kingdom p.693
 
"Dear Reichskanzler, 
… 
The Brooklyn headquarter of the Watchtower Society is pro German in an exemplary way and has been so for many years. For that reason, in 1918, the president of the Society and seven members of the board of directors were sentenced to 80 years in prison, because the president refused to use two of the magazines published in America under his direction for war propaganda against Germany. These two magazines, "The Watchtower" and "Bible Student" were the only magazines in America which refused to engage in anti-German propaganda and for that reason were prohibited and suppressed in America during the war. 

In the very same manner, in course of the recent months the board of directors of our Society not only refused to engage in propaganda against Germany, but has even taken a position against it. The enclosed declaration underlines this fact and emphasizes that the people leading in such propaganda (Jewish businessmen and Catholics) also are the most rigorous persecutors of the work of our Society and its board of directors. This and other statements of the declaration are meant to repudiate the slanderous accusation, that Bible Researchers are supported by the Jews. 

The conference of five thousand delegates also noted - as is expressed in the declaration - that the Bible Researchers of Germany are fighting for the very same high ethical goals and ideals which also the national government of the German Reich proclaimed respecting the relationship of humans to God, namely: honesty of the created being towards its creator. 

The conference came to the conclusion that there are no contradictions when it comes to the relationship between the Bible Researchers of Germany to the national government of the German Reich. To the contrary, referring to the purely religious and unpolitical goals and efforts of the Bible Researchers, it can be said that these are in full agreement with the identical goals of the national government of the German Reich. 

... 

We are looking forward to your kind approval, which we hope to receive soon, and want to assure our highest respect to you, honorable Mr. Reichskanzler. 

Yours faithfully, 
Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society Magdeburg"
FULL TEXT in German:

source: https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/hitler-nazi.php
 
 
 

I'm sure it would be just as legal as the jw setting up carts giving out tracts that condemn other religions for various reasons. 

Will you allow that an interest in history is permissible? Politics is current history, that’s all, or history in the making. 
All human governments will drop the ball & usually it is a bowling ball. As people ponder the vulnerability of their right and left toes, thus defines their politics.
What is important for the Christian is to avoid taking sides. It is not necessary to be ignorant of it. 
signed.....Tom Harley - resident scholar (not pseudo-scholar)

Well Arauna ... you've done it now !
With my apparent OCD I have latched onto a new fixation ... which is actually a continuation of my many years ago reading Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn " The Gulag Archipelago " series of books.
I watched several episodes on YouTube  of "Uncommon Knowledge", about Joseph Stalin, one of which you posted, above featuring the Author Stephen Kotkin, and am downloading everything I can about this ( pant! pant! pant! ....) I also plan on ordering Kotkin's three books and reading them.
I strongly suspect that my perceptions that everything Stalin is accused of as far as quantities of mass murders, etc. will be born out, but JWInsider has raised questions that need to be resolved in my mind.
Thank you for giving me the key to the door to find out.
I find Solzhenitsyn and Kotkin absolutely credible at face value .... so far.

Why not  go back to the sign at the top and bluntly answer if any of those accusations are true or false. No excuses or sidelines. Are they true or false ? 
And for my point why was Muhammad even needed ? Didn't Jesus do all that was necessary ? 

But Muhammad was a false prophet anyway and Islam is way off line.
Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law and was the last prophet ever needed in that sense.  Jesus was resurrected as the most important spirit person (apart from God himself) and returned to Heaven. And it is only through Jesus that we can receive everlasting life from God. 
Almighty God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and the 66 Books of the Holy Scriptures (in the hands of the anointed) are all that is needed for true direction. 
It is impossible to please God by sitting on the fence and believing that 'all roads lead to God'. 
If you are 'happy' with the religion of Islam then you cannot be serving God properly.  

Very long ago I heard an anecdote about the gun.
An older man was driving the car in the streets of Zagreb. Suddenly he must stop the car. In front of him there were some young people who blocked the road with their motorcycles. He came out and asked them to move motors, so he could pass. The guys started laughing and they told him; "Come on, grandpa, count us and see how many of us there are.
He returned to the car, took the gun, came back to them and asked; "From whom do I start counting?"

You are still being a parrot of the GB. You seem to know of nothing else.  As for me I'm not bitter and i do have very positive thoughts. Your problem seems to be that you have to insult me because I do not agree with your way of thinking. But remember that Jesus did not agree with the Pharisees' thoughts and deeds either. If you opened your eyes and your heart it would be easy for you to see how wicked the Governing Body of JW Org are. But you prefer to stay blind and just have your ears tickled by the GB's puppets, the Elders. 

You are still being a parrot of the GB. You seem to know of nothing else.  As for me I'm not bitter and i do have very positive thoughts. Your problem seems to be that you have to insult me because I do not agree with your way of thinking. But remember that Jesus did not agree with the Pharisees' thoughts and deeds either. If you opened your eyes and your heart it would be easy for you to see how wicked the Governing Body of JW Org are. But you prefer to stay blind and just have your ears tickled by the GB's puppets, the Elders. 

I am the one probably responsible for the Society calling many of the Anointed mentally ill.
During the Vietnam war, circa 1966,  I was of Draft age, and was asked to prove I was one of the "Anointed", to keep from getting drafted, so I put on my Speedo, and covered myself with corn oil, pecans, and pine cones ... put on a Smokey The Bear hat, and went for my interview.
Not only did I get a Draft deferral, but I made a lot of new Forest Friends.
The Elders asked me if there was a problem of mental illness in my family, and I replied, No, we rather enjoyed it.
 

You must mean persecution from a body of elders who demand their obedience.  Elders, not anointed, ruling over God's priesthood. 1 Pet 2:5,9
You must certainly mean persecution from an elder body because an unyielding anointed one chooses to listen to Christ and not remain “peaceful and yielding” in an environment of lies. Please check your history of teachings.  The true Spirit of God requires pure devotion to truth, which the heart of the anointed and companions can avail itself to, if it turns fully to the Father and Christ. 
Their persecution stems from those who wield ungodly power and authority over them.  Matt 24:48-51
Perhaps, Arauna, you believe in a delusion?  2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 13:1,5-8
 
 

Ummm... NO.. .I won't forgive you....
Please just start new threads when you have new, off topics ideas.
Thank you.
I will start moving some previously off topics conversations into different threads.

I see that discussion continued with  UN, but you will forgive me for commenting on this about education, grammar, misunderstanding, abilities and so on.
Good choice of words and their order are important for sending true meaning, but it is not guarantee for understanding. For me, who was not born in English (native speaker) language country, it is difficult to understand some (or many) sentences (phrasemes/idioms, jokes...) of people who participate here. And for you is, probably, hard to understand my expressions and clumsy grammar :)))
But here is what i would like to say. Formal Education and Higher Education can help in thinking abilities but they are not Substitution for Your Natural abilities and experience for understanding and discernment. I am working in School with professors, janitors and cleaning ladies. We are all needed to be there for "show to go on". And all are valuable in own contribution for mutual process. Yes, some Higher Educated persons are "clumsy" for some simple things that somebody else can done with not much effort. I remembered, once,  professors have been asking cleaning ladies, to cut some fruit on slices. And Ladies where not been willing to do it because, as they said, why teachers can not do it yourself? In one hand they was right, it is not mandatory job for cleaning lady to cut fruits. But it is also not obligated job for professors. (School,  some professors and children classes had some guests, that is why they plan to offer some fruits to visitors) After one professor heard complaints from cleaning lady, she ask, Ok, i can go and cut fruits by myself, but can you give a lesson for students instead of me in meantime?   
Thanks to all here who are not so strict and demanding for my grammar :)) About other sort of disagreements we do not need to give any further explanations :)))))  
 
 

Um, some might have said that Jesus was 'bitter and opposing' toward the Pharisees, when he called them 'offspring of vipers, hypocrites and like whitewashed graves'.  So you see, giving an honest opinion can be seen as bitter and opposing, especially if the recipient is in the wrong and doesn't want to admit to it. 
Are you then saying Jesus should have remained peaceful and yielding to the Pharisees? I hope you are not. 

Um, some might have said that Jesus was 'bitter and opposing' toward the Pharisees, when he called them 'offspring of vipers, hypocrites and like whitewashed graves'.  So you see, giving an honest opinion can be seen as bitter and opposing, especially if the recipient is in the wrong and doesn't want to admit to it. 
Are you then saying Jesus should have remained peaceful and yielding to the Pharisees? I hope you are not. 

The original idea of the United States constitution was to have a state that conformed only to the interest of rich landowners. Only rich landowners could vote. Most men in the United States could not vote, to say nothing for women and slaves. This was to create a powerful central state of ELITE that controlled the thoughts and ideas and material assets of the 99% of the rest of the population. 

Exactly so!
What apparently happened is that JTR noticed that if one happened to misread something that BTK said, it could sound painfully funny. There was nothing ungrammatical or funny about what BTK said, and JTR did not say there was anything wrong with BTK's words. BTK probably missed the fact that JTR was only finding a joke in JTR's own potential misreading of it.
Here was the entire exchange:
I don't think that BTK got the joke, or he would have realized that JTR was making fun of his own self, and his own misreading, rather than making fun of what BTK said. I know that once you explain a joke it won't be as funny any more, but I'll break the unwritten rule. If one were not a good reader, they might take that serious and grammatical sentence: "What is the test without ripping out an obstacle?" and spoonerize it into one that contains the expression "ripping out a test-acle." Of course, this won't strike everyone as funny even if they get the joke. But the main point is to notice that no one was making fun of anyone else's grammar. 
Still, I knew better than to upvote JTR's joke, but I did it anyway and, sure enough, BTK claimed that JTR was making fun of his grammar, and that I was also making fun of it, because I laughed at JTR's "joke" with a "laugh" icon.  I had hesitated to laugh because I've seen this happen before when someone doesn't get someone else's joke and thinks people are laughing at something else. But JTR's joke was funny enough for me. Perhaps I am too easily amused. It reminded me of a experience while driving a car group just last week, when a person cut us off almost hitting us but swerved back into his lane when he realized it. For some reason, I quipped the spoonerism: "Stay in your lane . . . .or lay in your stain." No one laughed. They might have thought I suffered from the first stages of road rage. But if JTR had been in the car group, he might have given me an "upvote" of some kind.
After my upvote of JTR's nearly self-deprecating joke, BTK answered my upvote with:
I completely agree with his sentiment, and only responded because of the false accusation BTK made:  that --by finding JTR's joke funny-- I was somehow forcing my idea of grammar on others, and implying that the joke was about a failure in BTK's grammar. I have never thought grammar was a big deal, and have always thought it was funny that anyone would think grammar or writing style was such a big deal.
 
(csvsh)

@Arauna If I have deviant sexual desires - I must learn to control it.  Wow, tell that to all the PEDOPHILES in the JW organisation EARTHWIDE. All those ELDERS that have sexually abused those poor little children for years. 
Self control. It seems many JW's have no idea what that means. 
 

Yes, that's what makes it so sad. Who are we to judge either way. Power and authority has been given to Jesus Christ, would he help in such a case. I don't think he would. Humans are left much to our own dealings aren't we ?
Oh for that New World to be here, even if I'm not going to be allowed to be there. For others to have joy and peace, it will be wonderful. 

Is there a single and available sub group ? Oh dear, that sounds very sad. 

I'm laughing, sorry. But I don't know where you get all your info'. It's great, thank you. 
So basically every time the GB discovers something they know is wrong or bad, they make up an excuse for it. 
Quote "the Watchtower has explicitly used this as one reason for a recent change in doctrine... " 
doctrine
/ˈdɒktrɪn/ noun   a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group. "the doctrine of predestination"   indoctrination /ɪnˌdɒktrɪˈneɪʃ(ə)n/ noun   the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically. "I would never subject children to religious indoctrination"   You seem to be proving more and more that it is all false and that the GB are not the Faithful Slave at all.  I've no idea where it will all end, but for sure that GB have to be removed. 

There seems to be more of us that believe the GB will be removed.  Who really knows only time will tell. 
It seems I'm wasting my time on here. I've said the things I've wanted to say and i haven't learnt anything that will bring me any closer to God or Jesus Christ. 
Time to look for the door outwards. 

@limmy  Apostasy is the formal disaffiliation from, or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person.
Not necessarily turning away from God, but turning away from a 'religion' 
Jehovah's Witnesses are a religion. but they do not have a monopoly on God. 
Monopoly : the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service
Quote: " Paul to was accused of Apostasy by the religious leaders against the mosaic law! "
So no problem in being called an apostate then is there ?  Even Jesus was apostate to the way that God had told the Nation of Israel to serve Him. Turning away from the old, turning toward the new. 
We can tell you are a newbie, you have much to learn.  May you have peace though. 
 

There seems to be more of us that believe the GB will be removed.  Who really knows only time will tell. 
It seems I'm wasting my time on here. I've said the things I've wanted to say and i haven't learnt anything that will bring me any closer to God or Jesus Christ. 
Time to look for the door outwards. 

Jesus was a humble man, but by far he didn’t keep “peace at all costs”. Matt 10:34  He exposed the lies.  Anointed must follow in the  footsteps of Jesus, should they remain mute when the “house steward” expects them to obey their lies?  Luke 22:24-27  There is no “control” over others within the anointed Body, but each is to support the other equally; and they are fully expected by Christ, to obey him only as their head and support his truth.  1 Cor 12:21-26
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.  Heb 4:12
In other words, it segregates those who follow Christ's teachings completely, from those who expect the anointed and companions, to follow men and their organization.    
“Control” over the anointed ones signifies the presence of a Wicked Slave.  Matt 24:48-51